Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Jan 31, 2015 - 10:34pm PT
Oh sweet, here is the obvious again.

News to you, everybody knows that shet already.

I'm not even on the side of "those guys" or "yours", in fact more siding with yours, but you present the opposition in such a d#@&%e bag way that it makes me want to be for "those guys".


I like that. I'm someone who I'm not and does things that I hate anyways.

It's dino, not D.

Who the fuk are you.

And if I'm on your lawn it's for a good reason.
Conscious and aware will blow your ass away before you even draw.

There you go inferring again.
Sad place to be.
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Jan 31, 2015 - 10:50pm PT
I'll give you a hint,
D-know rhymes with dino.
You dig.
Now,how about them welding lessunz?
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Jan 31, 2015 - 11:06pm PT
Keep guessing son.

It'll be just like figgering out this dang ole climates.

Seriously, I'm going for the scraggly old Chinese guy look.
Took me 15 or 20 years to get to this point.

Is that manly enough, or should I keep trying?

Edit:I am truly enamored you would pay attention to such details, chief.

Flattered even.
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Jan 31, 2015 - 11:25pm PT
Chief folded arms has proclaimed.
"Some day you'll be as useless as me!"

Profound.

You gonna get the last werd, chief?
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Jan 31, 2015 - 11:51pm PT
LBMF
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jan 31, 2015 - 11:57pm PT


Jan 31, 2015 - 11:18pm PT
Took me 15 or 20 years to get to this point

Nah.


HaHaHaHahHaHahhhahahahhhahahahHahHahHahh>(belly grabbr)
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Feb 1, 2015 - 12:02am PT
I love you, the chief.
Seriously. You make me think
and I thank you for that.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Feb 1, 2015 - 12:14am PT
^^^hope you were saluting through that?
d-know

Trad climber
electric lady land
Feb 1, 2015 - 12:21am PT
Of course b.b.!

I love you too. Ain't you one of them jesus loving dudes?
My aunt is like that.
Crazy as all get out
but I loves her anyway.
WBraun

climber
Feb 1, 2015 - 08:32am PT
If you leave, I will personally lose all respect I have for you as an individual and climber.

What does he gain by staying?

To keep sparing with you about the same conclusions both of you have already reached to the point of ad nauseam?
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2015 - 09:11am PT
@EdwardT: After you said, "Forget about climategate", I commented that it looked like they hooked you pretty good.

EDIT:

But I think I see what you mean now. You're saying to forget about climategate as an example of an overblown media diversion to discredit climate scientists, this new attempt at diversion is going to be even bigger. I suppose time will tell just how much this next attempt to derail climate awareness sticks.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Feb 1, 2015 - 10:51am PT
you have a rich fantasy life, The Chief which leads you to all sorts of fancies reaffirming your own choices, and especially your personal narrative of overcoming authority, especially having to do with your formal education.

In particular, you refuse to consider that topics in science can be shown to be right or wrong by the scientific evidence and by rigorous logic. It is not just political rhetoric, it is not a matter of "fair and balanced" reporting... in science, when you are wrong no one cares if your side is reported, you're wrong.

With all the huge social consequences of human induced climate change, it is easiest for many loud people to proclaim that the science is a hoax. Like most conspiracy theories, an argument is constructed that has a chain of logic that matches the particular conspiracy theory goal; the conspiracy theory you've signed onto is the one where all scientists who agree with the hypothesis that human activity has caused the recent, significant climate change have a stake in the outcome and cannot be trusted.

That is a conspiracy theory that involves thousands of scientists across the globe and has been putatively active for decades. The alleged conspiracy has duped most of the governments of the world.

I could speculate why this narrative appeals to you, but it isn't worth it. What is worth it is to continue to point out that the science makes steady progress whereas the objections to the science seem to be static, failing tests that the science makes.

Apparently, my affirming the scientific results has garnered your ire and lacking any ability to confront the scientific issues you resort to insulting me and accusing me of all nature of dishonesty. Their are many other things you accuse me of, the basis of these accusations being your own assumptions of what I am really trying to say and do, apparently not trusting what you read in my writings here, but are your own speculation.

Not only that, but by "confronting my authority" you feel you gain legitimacy for your own arguments, insisting that you have a right for "fair and balanced" representation. You are indeed entitled to an opinion, but that entitlement doesn't convey any other attribute to that opinion, and especially doesn't make it right, or equal to other opinions.

Generally in science, we move from opinion to some demonstration of that opinion. When you've attempted that, you have failed to provide much of a science case for your opinion, as has been pointed out by many responses to the thread. Since your conspiracy theory supports the idea that those posting can't be trusted you ignore any negative responses to your posted opinions. You yourself cannot understand the information that you channel onto this thread lacking any science education and being incapable of even the most simple calculation or statistical analysis.

While this appears to you to be an elitist statement, it really has to do with your lack of proficiency in the skills required to address these issues. This is further compounded with your reluctance to accept the authority of a teacher, since you are suspicious of any and all teachers and the "hidden agenda" they may have.

So we are left with having to hear you loudly proclaim things that you ultimately do not understand regarding climate science. It is no surprise, the stereotypic chief in the US Navy is a loud person, compelled to be impressive to a bunch of young men. While this works to great affect in a military setting when the authority figures actually have authority, it doesn't work so well when the points being made are more subtle and certainty less assured. But since it is what you know, it is what you do.



as for Chouinard and his departure from the climbing community, he certainly is a complex personalty, who knows what his motives were/are, I certainly have no personal connection with him. But taken at face value, he climbed for his own personal reasons and in a style that he thought honored those things that he valued. He chose to climb with a group of people who shared something in common with his vision of climbing. At some point climbing went in another direction, partners also find other passions.

There is a finite time for the conjunction of all the "good things" to happen, and it is often difficult to recognize when that time has ended. It might also be difficult for others to acknowledge that it has happened for a particular individual.

You are correct to speculate that I don't care what you think of me, I try to conduct my activities with some self-integrity without needing external affirmation. But as much as SuperTopo Forum has been a very interesting and important climber's resource, especially in giving voice to a richer historical perspective of climbing than we've ever had, the conjunction of all the "good things" might well be over for me.

I am not usually rash to act, but I am also not all that interested in much of what goes on in a lot of the STForum these days. Why we cannot have our differences of opinion (where the differences are of opinion, and not of demonstrable science) in a civil manner strikes me as symptomatic of the wider society and invalidates any claim that the society of climbers is any different from the rest of society.

If you believe in something so strongly that you feel you have to express it loudly, and then turn up the volume when you get pushback... well "that's your right" but I don't have to participate in that sort of discourse, that's my choice.

Being loud is your choice.

McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Feb 1, 2015 - 10:53am PT
The climate has been changing for a looooooooooooooooooooong ass time now.

Billion of years worth of loooooooooooooooooooooooong ass time worth.

Of course it has, but it has never been changed by a single species before and so rapidly.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Feb 1, 2015 - 11:25am PT
we all make our own choices
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Feb 1, 2015 - 11:43am PT
But doing what you mentioned on account of me, now that is beyond stupid.

Isn't it more about what happened to Bruce Kay?


McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Feb 1, 2015 - 12:02pm PT
My point is that Ed's sentiments are more because of Bruce Kay's banning in general.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 1, 2015 - 12:49pm PT
@EdwardT: After you said, "Forget about climategate", I commented that it looked like they hooked you pretty good.

EDIT:

But I think I see what you mean now. You're saying to forget about climategate as an example of an overblown media diversion to discredit climate scientists, this new diversion is going to be even bigger. I suppose time will tell.

"Forget Climategate. This global warming scandal is much bigger." is the title of the story.

It was followed by "thanks to those objective, unbiased journalists at Brietbart", which was meant facetiously. I hoped to convey "I'm not sure I believe these guys", but this story might be true. If so, it might carry some weight.

The overreaction to my post by certain posters was eye-opening.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
Feb 1, 2015 - 01:16pm PT
Focusing on 'warming' or the lack there of is like saying the climate has always changed. Of course it has always changed, but not because of a single species.

Warming is not likely to take a more significant hold until the poles are melted, and they are melting. They are melting to the degree that things are warming and keeping somewhat of a temp equilibrium. The ice is limited however. Climate Change, rather than Global Warming, is happening quite noticeably, and not quite as easy to hide in the numbers.

but this story might be true. If so, it might carry some weight.

It won't be any truer than any of the other crap that has come out. Expect more crap now that the anti-science people have some control of both the People's Houses. I can only hope the rest of the world can see its way. BUT, I also know there are many companies and groups charging ahead in this country to make thing right, regardless of the crap we see in the media.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Feb 1, 2015 - 06:12pm PT
The Climate Change Performance Index Results 2015

http://germanwatch.org/en/download/10407.pdf

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    Climate Change Deniers are Liars - Google
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2015 global agreement moves closer in Warsaw
http://www.sauder.ubc.ca/Faculty/Research_Centres/Centre_for_Social_Innovation_and_Impact_Investing/Programs/Clean_Capital/2015_global_agreement_moves_closer_in_Warsaw
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Feb 1, 2015 - 07:24pm PT
Who would think that heated science debate would result in so much hurt butt and cupped balls...?
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