Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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monolith

climber
SF bay area
Mar 6, 2014 - 07:19pm PT
Hey Sketch, how come your Hadcrut3 'pause' has a massive jump at the start?



Enough of this, off to climb.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 6, 2014 - 07:38pm PT
Wow. You've got the sarcastic victim schtick down. Impressive.

I learned it by watching you. Whine some more about that bill of sale the Global Climate Cartel has been ramming down your throat.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Mar 6, 2014 - 07:55pm PT
Wow. You've got the sarcastic victim schtick down. Impressive.

I learned it by watching you.

Lol. He has a point sketch.

DMT
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Mar 6, 2014 - 07:59pm PT
Good Answer.


Edit;You know it is all snark.
Climbers ,skiers,mountian folk have always been good at snark.
It is Comedy.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Mar 6, 2014 - 08:03pm PT
No patents issued to your hero Al Gore, but that's fine, he didn't really claim to have invented the Internet (just to have "created" it), and if you don't like that, well some guy who maybe did create the Internet thinks Al's swell, and he did popularize (but not "invent" or "create") the term "Information Superhighway" (which has now been unpopularized), and you're all just a bunch of meanies for picking on such a great guy who's just trying to save the world form GLOBAL WARMING (and make more-than-a-few million in the process as in influence peddler).

"My Hero?" I don't really even like the guy.

Back away from the strawman: Nobody is calling you a meanie, I'm just pointing out how desperate your arguments are.

I'm not even really sure what Kos was getting at [...]

I'm calling out your contrived semantic nitpick where you equate the words "invented" and "created" in some nonsensical attempt to claim you know more about who was responsible for the development of the internet than the guys who actually did "invent" it.

You really want to argue that Steve Jobs "invented" the iPhone because he has a few patents related to it? There are easily more than a thousand patents involved in the technology behind the iPhone.

Maybe Jobs had a few ideas about the shape of the case and positions of the buttons. Maybe he "invented" a few superficial aspects of an incredibly complex product. Maybe.

You are a patent agent? Do you really know anything about the patent process in corporations?

Here's a clue: The boss usually gets his name on the employee's patent because ... he's the boss. The boss doesn't have to invent sh#t. It's standard practice in many corporations for a manager to automatically be a co-inventor of any patents filed.

Steve Jobs created the iPhone. He didn't invent it - nobody really invented "it" - but his influence and vision was instrumental in making it it happen when it did.

Perhaps Al Gore was stretching a bit when he said he "took the initiative in creating the internet." But it wasn't that much of a stretch. (His claim certainly wasn't the absurd lie that so many "conservatives" portray it to be - and that's the point that Snopes is making.) He didn't invent it, but his influence and vision was instrumental in making it it happen when it did.

Somebody get the word out: Vint Cerf and Bob Kahn are no longer credible because some anonymous guy on the internet says they are not.

Well gee, that's ironic: some guy on the internet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vint_Cerf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Kahn

So where's your Wikipedia page, brah?
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Mar 6, 2014 - 08:24pm PT
Al Gore and the Internet
By Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf

Al Gore was the first political leader to recognize the importance of the Internet and to promote and support its development.

No one person or even small group of persons exclusively "invented" the Internet. It is the result of many years of ongoing collaboration among people in government and the university community. But as the two people who designed the basic architecture and the core protocols that make the Internet work, we would like to acknowledge VP Gore's contributions as a Congressman, Senator and as Vice President. No other elected official, to our knowledge, has made a greater contribution over a longer period of time.

Last year the Vice President made a straightforward statement on his role. He said: "During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the Internet." We don't think, as some people have argued, that Gore intended to claim he "invented" the Internet. Moreover, there is no question in our minds that while serving as Senator, Gore's initiatives had a significant and beneficial effect on the still-evolving Internet. The fact of the matter is that Gore was talking about and promoting the Internet long before most people were listening. We feel it is timely to offer our perspective.

etc

The Vice President deserves credit for his early recognition of the value of high speed computing and communication and for his long-term and consistent articulation of the potential value of the Internet to American citizens and industry and, indeed, to the rest of the world.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/10/02/net_builders_kahn_cerf_recognise/
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2014 - 08:25pm PT
Man, did that ever burst my bubble.


All this time, I thought The Chief was instrumental in iventing the TCP/IP protocol.


Well what do you know, he didn't. But maybe we give him credit for inventing something. How TIP/C (a close relative of TCP/IP) a protocol that transmits a foul smell over fiber optics?
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2014 - 08:47pm PT
Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville

Mar 6, 2014 - 07:03am PT

As of Tuesday, North America is covered by the third-highest amount of snow this late in the season since records began in 1966, according to NOAA's U.S. National Ice Center.

Only 1969 and 1978 had more snow cover at this point in the year, according to Sean Helfrich of NOAA's National Ice Center.




Oh Man! Look at what all that additional water in the air is doing!!!



Too bad Cali is suffering so with our drought.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Mar 6, 2014 - 08:52pm PT
Too bad Cali is suffering so with our drought.

Drought??

It is the norm KMAN. No drought. The Norm.

That is if you don't believe the world all began in 1880's or when the "record" keeping began in the late 1800's like you and others here do.


Get use to it.... WHINER.


BTW: Lower O is running at normal CFS's for this time of the year. All conditions ... NORMAL!


28 Browns today. Most in the 14-16" range. Total this week, 137.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 6, 2014 - 08:58pm PT
Snow pack... totally normal.

Chuffer... totally normal and sooper smart.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Mar 6, 2014 - 09:06pm PT
Snow pack in California normal..... as it has been for centuries going back some 1-10k years.

Researchers have documented multiple droughts in California that lasted 10 or 20 years in a row during the past 1,000 years.

SAN JOSE, Calif. California's current drought is being billed as the driest period in the state's recorded rainfall history. But scientists who study the West's long-term climate patterns say the state has been parched for much longer stretches before that 163-year historical period began.

And they worry that the "megadroughts" typical of California's earlier history could come again.


Through studies of tree rings, sediment and other natural evidence, researchers have documented multiple droughts in California that lasted 10 or 20 years in a row during the past 1,000 years compared to the mere three-year duration of the current dry spell. The two most severe megadroughts make the Dust Bowl of the 1930s look tame: a 240-year-long drought that started in 850 and, 50 years after the conclusion of that one, another that stretched at least 180 years.

"We continue to run California as if the longest drought we are ever going to encounter is about seven years," said Scott Stine, a professor of geography and environmental studies at Cal State East Bay. "We're living in a dream world."
http://news.msn.com/in-depth/scientists-past-california-droughts-have-lasted-200-years

NOT 160 years or however long your world began in the late 1800's.




Now, what prison was that you teach at again, WESPHD???
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Mar 6, 2014 - 09:13pm PT
you can see that there is a "blocking high" at a pressure of 1024 hPa, the low on the west side of that is around 965 hPa. For the purpose of estimating the pressure difference, take the average of the two, 994.5 hPa and subtract that from the high: 29.5 hPa

The area of the high is something like 10 x 10 a square of 1110 km x 1110 km. The atmospheric volume is 25 million cubic kilometers or 2.5E16 cubic meters. Multiply this by 2950 Pa (one hPa = 100 Pa) and you get 7.25E19 joules, that's the energy difference..

one joule per second is a watt. Let's take a gigawatt of power 1e9 watts, and divide it into the energy difference, we'd get 7.25e10 seconds, or roughly 3000 years of continuous energy input with 100% efficiency from source to image.

that would create a pressure difference of the "high" sitting off the California coast right now...

I don't think you can attribute that to HAARP.

Yes

it doesn't take a lot of calculations to notice that an antenna farm in Alaska won't directly create a significant atmospheric warming effect over a large area of the Pacific Ocean...but can it trigger this indirectly...


some of the literature about Nicola Tesla suggests that he used to watch lightning storms over the hills above his home in Croatia and began wondering whether all that energy could be captured and controlled

his research had a lot to do with tuning the frequencies of his equipment to those frequencies occurring naturally in the planet

Credit: TomCochrane
the ISS crew has an incredible view of some of these energy releases
http://www.military.com/video/space-technology/space-stations/iss-captures-lightning-storm-of-the-us/1241818074001/
Around the world, lightning strikes the ground about 100 times each second, or 8 million times a day.
https://www.nssl.noaa.gov/education/svrwx101/lightning/



it's not about whether HAARP generates the amounts of energy you are calculating

it's about whether HAARP can tune into and direct energies that are already present in the atmosphere



mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 6, 2014 - 09:17pm PT
Wow, thanks for the paleoclimate lesson genius. You so sooper smart!!!

Driest year in over 400 years... totally normal.
WBraun

climber
Mar 6, 2014 - 09:19pm PT
his research had a lot to do with tuning the frequencies of his equipment to those frequencies occurring naturally in the planet

Yes

These modern scientists know so little about harmonizing, especially at certain frequencies and their effects.

Tesla was a master genius.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Mar 6, 2014 - 09:27pm PT
Driest year in over 400 years... totally normal.

Cite your ref for that claim Mr. Prison Professor.



PS:

Snowpack is now at or above that of modern "LOW" record of 76/77 throughout the Sierra.

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/snowapp/swcchart.action



Your fear material is dwindling away. Another series of storms are on tap for next week and April is shaping up to be a doosey of a wet month. April in the recent past (2002 and 2005) has been known to be snow producer.

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2014 - 09:45pm PT
The Chief, very cool page, thanks for sharing.

I plotted the last four years, without the min/max curves.

We've been getting heavy snowfall later in the year. You can see the massive Spring '11 snowfall.


A few years ago, we wondered if we'd have skiing at Badger by Oct. Now, News Years has been really dry the past few seasons.

So far, it's been much warmer when it's snowed this year--we have a really wet, heavy, slushy pack, and it starts pretty high up the mountain. I'm wondering if we're going to get another big March. If we do, I'm thinking it's going to come down with more rain than snow.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Mar 6, 2014 - 10:01pm PT
what is the trigger mechanism?


excellent line of questioning, Ed


so...what triggers a lightning strike...

...and where is the reservoir of energy released by it...

i think we know something about that


so next question: can this energy be released in the form of atmospheric heating over a wide area rather than strikes in a narrow area


some reports say HAARP claims both capabilities...for weather/military use

i've also heard experimenters have worked a long time to get it tuned and controllable


and note that the existence of nuclear weapons became a lot less secretive once they were developed and generally deployed...although certain details about their design architecture remain highly guarded...
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Mar 6, 2014 - 10:12pm PT
We've been getting heavy snowfall later in the year. You can see the massive Spring '11 snowfall.


Those were El Nino years.

Accurate Sierra Snow Survey Records do not go back past the mid 70's when snow sensors were distributed throughout the region.

Prior to that, SSS's were done manually and not as vastly covered as they have been since the mid 70's and the implementation of those sensors.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2014 - 10:33pm PT
I don't know, it just sounds cool:


A central theme of the report is that vulnerabilities and impacts are issues beyond physical infrastructures themselves. The concern is with the value of services provided by infrastructures, where the true consequences of impacts and disruptions involve not only the costs associated with the cleanup, repair, and/or replacement of affected infrastructures but also economic, social, and environmental effects as supply chains are disrupted, economic activities are suspended, and/or social well-being is threatened.




Or as blahblah would say, "We're just not that worried, capiche?"
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2014 - 10:40pm PT
Accurate Sierra Snow Survey Records do not go back past the mid 70's when snow sensors were distributed throughout the region.



I see your point, The Chief.


Or maybe I don't.
Does the amount of snowfall we get each year depend on how we record it?

Does our knowledge of past season's precipitation depend solely on survey records,
or do we have other ways to determine general precipitation levels?


The Chief, you're a smart man. I think you know the answers.
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