Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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TLP

climber
Jan 26, 2015 - 08:12pm PT
Whoa, Rick, did I misunderstand or weren't you just posting a day or so ago that something would come along when the petroleum runs out? I think the likely reality is somewhere in between: incentive isn't strong enough yet, but we'll get alternatives partly on line before the oil is totally gone.

The Germany example is a bit misleading: they closed down their nuclear after Fukushima. I agree the State should get out of the coal world, just make the coal-related industry pay its true environmental cost in lost watershed, waste disposal, impacts on miners themselves, air, etc. And sh$tcan the subsidies to oil exploration, depletion allowance, etc etc etc etc, too. Then the market would definitely favor something else. Yes, there is a problem with State intervention, but in the opposite way you're representing it.

Totally agree with you about the inevitable necessity of a new generation of nuclear power and of use of natural gas - but make the fracking industry pay its full surface water contamination and solid waste disposal costs too. Not the rest of us who don't get the income from it. There's trillions in present and future revenue sloshing around that industry too, no reason the state or federal taxpayers should clean up their mess.
WBraun

climber
Jan 26, 2015 - 08:17pm PT
So you're saying if I put a few 100 watt panels on my roof and run my water heater and my lights without tying into the grid I'll be breaking the law?

That's stupid ...... :-)

No really that's stupid?
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jan 26, 2015 - 08:26pm PT
It is totally legal here.
WBraun

climber
Jan 26, 2015 - 08:28pm PT
I can "see" another point?

I might be totally wrong though.

If ... that's an IF all the solar installations were tied to the grid wouldn't that reduce the overall demand on the grid itself?
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jan 26, 2015 - 08:31pm PT
That is the idea.

Really ,both ways do.

One ,costs more to implement.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jan 26, 2015 - 08:34pm PT
Yes.

It is all battery/dc/or ac inversion.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jan 26, 2015 - 08:40pm PT
The system has to meet code ,enough to power smoke detectors,lights etc.

Otherwise no permit.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jan 26, 2015 - 08:46pm PT
The building code is now national.

Even the amish here have to adhere or no C of O.

They do not even have power.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jan 26, 2015 - 08:47pm PT
The Chief should probably do a bit more research into his assertion of the legality of "stand alone" solar...

certainly if you take advantage of the California Solar Initiative, which is a state program to incentivize solar energy production through rebates, tax credits, etc, etc, the state wants you to interconnect your system to the grid... that's the whole point.

If you want to pay full price for your solar panels, pay the property taxes for the value adjustment afforded by having solar, etc, etc, I believe you can go for it... but it would be rather more expensive. The independent system "interconnect" would, in principle, be negotiable with your local power company but that would also cost you a lot more... and the rate rebates wouldn't be covered by the state program policies.

Since our taxes are funding the program, why would I want The Chief to take advantage of it without benefiting in some way?

wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jan 26, 2015 - 08:53pm PT
I believe there is a ton of solar going on in NYC.

Probably ATG though.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jan 26, 2015 - 08:57pm PT
I believe they could.

I know they do in Rochester and Buffalo.

wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jan 26, 2015 - 09:03pm PT
ATG can triple the install cost.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 26, 2015 - 09:11pm PT
And did you have a coal burning stove for heat Wilbeer?

No TLP, I was saying that since you same people have been claiming peak oil for decades you should just relax while the small FF remainder you claim economic is burned. Then the natural substitute, the cheapest , most efficient, new technology would emerge if not fuked by government mandates, taxation, and other forms of meddling. The hundreds of billions wasted on end of the world science in a losing scheme to scare the general populace into endentured servitude would be much more wisely spent in R&D .

As far as solar is concerned, I believe it provides less than 2% of the electrical energy consumed presently in the U.S. If entrepeneurs like Elon Musk get their way the storage problem will be partially solved by individual households and motor vehicles via Lithium battery storage and emerging battery technology. But even if highly successful this will not replace grid scale on demand power plants. We need NG and nuclear.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jan 26, 2015 - 09:18pm PT
Woodstove for heat.Wood from premises.

My new house is getting geothermal,I have to dig a well.

Look up standing column geothermal systems.Run off solar[heatpump,controls]Wood supplement.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 26, 2015 - 09:23pm PT
Yeah, I already checked it out Wilbeer. You would have to have a sizeable chunk of property to make on property wood harvest for heat "sustainable".
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jan 26, 2015 - 09:35pm PT
No,I live in a locust grove.

Built this house 13 years ago and there are trees planted every year since.

Now ,I could heat a 1600 square foot well insulated house without touching a tree I did not plant.

Have you ever been to upstate NY?







So yes there was some original consumption,you have got to get ahead of it.

With a catalytic stove ,they are almost carbon neutral.

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jan 26, 2015 - 09:38pm PT
is it fair? if you take advantage of the opportunities that the state provides, yes...

but perhaps you could provide the documentation for your initial claim...
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 26, 2015 - 09:43pm PT
Okay Wilbeer, I've heard too much. You're raping Walden's Pond. I'm sending in the tree huggers to spike and chain themselves to your trees.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Jan 26, 2015 - 09:48pm PT
Canandaiqua is where I build Habitat for Humanity homes now and then ,mostly for vets.

I was only saying have you been here you would know that trees grow fast.

There are plenty like me in these hills and in town,trying to live sustainable ways.

It is not living in a tent.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jan 26, 2015 - 09:55pm PT
Wilbeer. If everyone in NY starting harvesting all the trees and not replace them, you all would look like the Mojave desert in less than five years.

already happened... in the first half of the 1800's much of the Northeast forests were gone... what we see today is mostly regrowth, the land abandoned by the opening up the west
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