Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Mar 6, 2014 - 10:03am PT
BASE:


"Check it out for ten minutes. It will blow your mind. It is a great example of how you can say anything at all on the internet, and you will stumble onto nigh every possible opinion with a google search. The question is which site has the best data. If you don't really care too much about that, you can create a universe of your own, ground up..."

A perfect explanation and summation of this CAGW issue and entire KMAN "ANTI-SKEPTIC" HATE thread.

You are for once spot on BASE!!!


















BTW....



Ice cover on Great Lakes climbs rapidly: See how close we are to record


The overall entire Great Lakes system is rated at 90 percent iced over, according to the Great Lakes Environmental Research Laboratory(GLERL). This is the highest percentage of total ice cover this year, and increasing rapidly. GLERL has been using the same method to rank ice cover percentage since 1973. The highest ice total on the entire Great Lakes was 94.8 percent in 1994.

Lake Superior is now 95 percent covered with ice. That is up from 78 percent one week ago. The satellite image is fascinating and shows a whole lot of ice. Lake Superior has been frozen over 100 percent one time since 1973, back in 1996.


http://www.mlive.com/weather/index.ssf/2014/03/great_lakes_ice_cover_update_l.html

monolith

climber
SF bay area
Mar 6, 2014 - 11:10am PT
And in more bad news, one of the researchers cited by the GWPF report has told me that even if Lawson's think tank is right, then we're heading for 3C of global warming by the end of the century (which is actually very bad news).

Even if we were to accept lower estimates for climate sensitivity, Meinshausen writes, this "only results in a delay of less than a decade in the timing of when the 2C threshold would be crossed" if no firm action were taken to cut emissions.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/planet-oz/2014/mar/06/lord-lawson-climate-sceptic-thinktank?CMP=twt_gu
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Mar 6, 2014 - 11:14am PT
Come on Mono, we all know the "pal review" process allows for no dissent.

Haarp- i know a guy who was seriously injured there during maintenance of one of the units when confusion resulted in the unit he was on being inadvertently powered up. The claims of capabilities of this installation are almost in the realm of the CAGW folk. However Tom's " unless your getting paid to provide misinformation" was spot on.

monolith

climber
SF bay area
Mar 6, 2014 - 11:22am PT
Because the same temp increase requires doubling of CO2. That means for the same raw CO2 emission, the earlier emission has a greater impact than a later one, and we are already .8C towards the 2C threshold.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Mar 6, 2014 - 11:29am PT
monolith

climber
SF bay area

Mar 6, 2014 - 07:45am PT
What peer-reviewed journal did Lord Lawson's GWPF 'report' appear in, Sketch?

C'mon Sketch...

"If it is NOT reviewed and approved as PRO PROPAGANDA by the CAGW ZEALOTS, it is not from GOD!"



















BASE:


"Check it out for ten minutes. It will blow your mind. It is a great example of how you can say anything at all on the internet, and you will stumble onto nigh every possible opinion with a google search. The question is which site has the best data. If you don't really care too much about that, you can create a universe of your own, ground up..."
dirtbag

climber
Mar 6, 2014 - 11:41am PT
Go away, Chief Pinocchio.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Mar 6, 2014 - 11:49am PT
While perusing the blogs i came across this press release and synopsis of a just released book. The author claims we may be entering into a period of "civilizational exhaustion", where our irrational fears may result in civilization making monumental fear borne mistakes about energy mixes powering the future on a solar induced cooling world. The synopsis explains better than i can of what i have feared for sometime. Were at a crossroads, down one road lies perils to match the culturally ingrained negativity, down the other lies a world of evolving opportunity limited only by the degree we optimistically work for it.

http://www.wattsupwiththat.com/2014/03/06/new-book-twilight-of-abundance/#more-104508
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Mar 6, 2014 - 11:50am PT
Go away, Chief Pinocchio.
Are you kidding?
This is the only attention he gets; he'll never leave.

Just greasemonkey the morons, and it cuts out 90% of the drivel.

If you guys would stop quoting the morons, it would be 100%

The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Mar 6, 2014 - 11:53am PT
BASE:


"Check it out for ten minutes. It will blow your mind. It is a great example of how you can say anything at all on the internet, and you will stumble onto nigh every possible opinion with a google search. The question is which site has the best data. If you don't really care too much about that, you can create a universe of your own, ground up..."
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Mar 6, 2014 - 11:58am PT
You approached your off width goals of the past with nothing but visions of the myriad of ways you might fail, i presume professor. Get off your high horse amigo, optimism opens entire worlds of opportunity unavailable to the closed mind.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Mar 6, 2014 - 12:15pm PT
What I mean to say, is that if you have a pre-existing opinion, you can Google for ten minutes and find numerous websites and blogs that will agree with you, despite the truth.

If I am paranoid, like some of the recent posts here on this thread, you can go find a shitload of "information" which agrees with you.

This leads to a BIG problem with the internet. Many blog posts or statements may be totally untrue. Total gibberish. However, if you go to Google and have a pre-existing opinion, you will find a lot of crappy information that just happens to agree with you.

It is a common problem that is solved by the scientific method. Meaning: be very leery of information on the internet, and try to find the true experts in a field of study.

Argument from authority carries little weight. There are no authorities in science. There are only experts. So try to find the experts.

With climate change, right off the bat I see the opinion of the National Academy of Sciences. The NAS is the best collection of experts in this country. Here is a link to their statement regarding climate change:

http://www.nationalacademies.org/onpi/06072005.pdf

I am not a climate expert. I am an expert on depositional environments of clastic and carbonate rocks. These paleo depositional environments are controlled by the climate at the time of deposition, among other influences.

I can point out two large scale climate "hot houses" during the recent (post Cambrian) past. Also, the amount of CO2 can and has been reconstructed through time, with a fair degree of accuracy. I know that the late Mesozoic was very hot. That is easy. You just map the rock record at a certain point in time. Distribution of tropical plant fossils and various invertebrate fossils was controlled by climate.

So I know that it has happened before, and I know that the CO2 level during the Cretaceous was high.

Just Google "Cretaceous Thermal Maximum."

If you really want to get into it, you can start reading about ocean acidification and global anoxic events. These anoxic events are responsible for the carbon rich shales which sourced the worlds oil and gas accumulations during the Jurassic and Cretaceous.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Mar 6, 2014 - 12:22pm PT
"...optimism opens entire worlds of opportunity unavailable to the closed mind."

Not allowed in the CAGW issue, research field or "pal-review" process.

The more negativity & fear that can be instilled amongst the masses of sheep, the better.




BASE:


"Check it out for ten minutes. It will blow your mind. It is a great example of how you can say anything at all on the internet, and you will stumble onto nigh every possible opinion with a google search. The question is which site has the best data. If you don't really care too much about that, you can create a universe of your own, ground up..."
WBraun

climber
Mar 6, 2014 - 12:27pm PT
Base104 -- "What I mean to say, is that if you have a pre-existing opinion,
you can Google for ten minutes and find numerous websites and blogs that will agree with you, despite the truth."

This holds so true for a lot of stuff being discussed on this forum.

This why research is so important.

Not that we just do a 5 to 10 minute googling and then have our immediate "Eureka" moment ("I have the answer!!!").

Some of this stuff takes years to give one an honest understanding ......



Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Mar 6, 2014 - 12:41pm PT
**This why research is so important.



Some of this stuff takes years to give one an honest understanding ......**


Yes and yes. It is a Captain Obvious remark to any that understands the scientific process. No offense meant to you duck. That is what I like about this thread. There are many posts that contain this type of quality, likewise, many that are just noise. If you have this understanding and humility a lot can be learned.
raymond phule

climber
Mar 6, 2014 - 12:51pm PT

The more negativity & fear that can be instilled amongst the masses of sheep, the better.

I guess that you talk about rick sumner. He is definitely the person on this thread that is most afraid of the future and he also try say to everyone else that they also should be afraid. I guess that the sheep are you and the rest of the know it all because they read some blogs.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Mar 6, 2014 - 12:52pm PT
ED HARTOUNI

"I prefer to be a realist"

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

That is exactly what both GWB, Cheney and their "PAL REVIEWERS" stated time after time after time about Iraq.

Supposedly tons and tons of research and lots of consensus etc were completed for that deal.

12 years later we all have a better understanding of the truth.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Mar 6, 2014 - 01:03pm PT
Most of us had a firm understanding of the Truth every time those Criminals opened their mouths.

Really??

Your GOVT approved all of it by a majority. Including "MOST" of the Demo's in BOTH the Senate and Congress. Thus allowing the invasion and all the other stuff that went on for over 9 years. And STILL goes on there covertly which ALL of you are paying for.

All based on supposed consensus of the intell community and their science of information research gathering.

The same GOVT you seek to save your asses from this supposed fatalistic scenario.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Mar 6, 2014 - 01:06pm PT
thank you


several good posts here


it does take a lot of time and effort to sort out reality, and i really appreciate those of you making honest attempts to understand



we seem to be in situations requiring urgent smart decision making while deluged with obfuscated advice



it is not worthwhile to lock into a limited view of reality and then use it to ridicule others who are trying to learn and understand



it's a bit like being committed in a blizzard up a long steep ice gulley that is obviously building up to avalanche, while noticing possible escape routes up a few challenging off-width cracks on the sidewalls
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Mar 6, 2014 - 01:14pm PT
there you go making assumptions with no basis in fact...
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Mar 6, 2014 - 01:32pm PT






Wade Icey

Trad climber
http://www.alohashirtrescue.com

Mar 6, 2014 - 10:14am PT
there you go making assumptions with no basis in fact.


Wade..

I seriously hope your last post was NOT directly to my post WADE.

If it is, you surely are one of having your head deeply buried in the sand.
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