Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 20, 2014 - 12:43am PT
you got nothing, rick, you're making it up
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Oct 20, 2014 - 07:31am PT
India Expands Solar Power Target, Will Add 15 GW Over Next Five Years
http://cleantechnica.com/2014/10/19/india-expands-solar-power-target-will-add-15-gw-next-five-years/

Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Oct 20, 2014 - 07:52am PT
What I post is usually memorized material and I aint going to shuffle through all those papers just to please you.

Just goes to prove your total lack of knowing jackshet about the bullshet you keep posting ....?

You and .... do have so much in common. The common thread you both share, You are both so fking ignorant of the historical facts of reality. Yet you continue to believe in the ideology of stooooooooooopid.


But then that is what happens when you choose delusional standards of thinking.

Okay that proves it to my satisfaction. Lighten up and get some education Scientismists!
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 20, 2014 - 07:57am PT
If the IPCC computer models' projections DO NOT MATCH the temp empirical evidence ...the IPCC models are WRONG...RIGHT?

what do you mean by "match"?

that's a quantitative question.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 20, 2014 - 08:01am PT
Come on guys...no warming for 15 years despite CO2 increases

you mean that the measurement of the atmospheric surface global mean temperature has been relatively flat for the decade...

the component of the global mean temperature that depends on the CO2 component has been increasing, there are natural forcing components that have combined to keep the temps flat,

but the warming has continued to increase
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Oct 20, 2014 - 08:09am PT
Not sure if this is old hat here, I've fallen behind on reading the past few weeks. But Science 9/26 has a dramatic cover image showing the loss of *ground* water in California, as calculated from GRACE satellite data -- the same technology used to estimate mass balance of the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets, and also (different spacecraft, same idea) the new gravitational maps of the Moon.



COVER Satellite image from NASA's Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment (GRACE) mission showing California's devastating loss of fresh water (in red) since 2002. In each of the past 3 years, epic drought has drained the region of more than 15 cubic kilometers of fresh water. Borsa et al. report the crustal response to much of this water loss. See page 1587 and the related Editorial on page 1543.

The drought you can't see
Marcia McNutt

The Western Hemisphere is experiencing a drought of crisis proportions. In Central America, crops are failing, millions are in danger of starvation, and if the drought doesn't break soon, even vessels transiting the Panama Canal will need to lighten their loads, which will increase prices for goods transported globally. In the western United States, the drought-stricken region spans a vast area responsible for much of the nation's fruits, vegetables, and beef. As the drought's grip has tightened, water users have turned to tapping groundwater aquifers to make up the deficit for people, crops, livestock, and industry. But even when the rain does return, regreening the landscape and filling again the streams, lakes, and reservoirs, those aquifers will remain severely depleted. It is this underground drought we can't see that is enduring, worrisome, and in need of attention.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Oct 20, 2014 - 08:12am PT
no warming for 15 years despite CO2 increases
you still don't know the difference between surface temperatures & heat content?
you're a moron
go back to kindergarten
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2014 - 08:30am PT
The Chief, it's clear that you either didn't read, or didn't understand, Chiloe's last post.


You parade your ignorance as if it were something to be proud of.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2014 - 08:33am PT
Since surface temperature seems to have fallen out of favor and "heat content" is the new metric, ...


No Sketch, you're not paying attention. For example, can you name when the 10 hottest years on record occurred? (BTW, that is temperature we're talking about).

Where does 2014 fall into the mix (too early to call as a total, but the evidence is very strong).
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 20, 2014 - 08:56am PT
it is a eye catching cover....

there are posts in another thread, it caught my eye for the climber connection... the rebound response of the plate due to pumping out the water lifted the Sierra a half inch or so...

This was detected by the GPS network and consistent with the satellite measurements.

I also did a quick calculation of the energy required to pump the water out of the ground and then looked for a correlation between drought periods and California energy use... there might actually be something there (though I'd have to get higher time resolution information). A quick calculation shows it's about 20% of the state total in drought years.

This on the "how bad is the drought" thread:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2328516&msg=2472285#msg2472285
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2328516&msg=2473271#msg2473271
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Oct 20, 2014 - 09:06am PT
NOAA just updated their surface temperature index through September. In agreement with the NASA data released earlier, NOAA shows 2014 as the warmest September on record.




But the graph above shows Septembers only. Here are 135 years of January-September averages.

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Oct 20, 2014 - 09:12am PT
Please refrain from posting the NOAA fudge factory temp history as fact. It is well known that they are the outlier on the high side.

You guys just don't get it, all the cries of doom and supporting scientism is viewed as science fiction, poor material at that.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 20, 2014 - 09:17am PT
not sure what you are getting at The Chief...

the aquifer water is a resource, and its renewability takes place over hundreds and thousands of years. The rate at which we're pumping it will draw that resource down to the point that it will not be available to use.

The value of the resource is very high, yet the cost of using the resource, a common resource, is very low, so low as to merit not even a measurement of how much water was being drawn. So low that a more conservation minded use of the resource isn't economic.

What crops are planted in California that are essential to feeding the world? what crops are not so essential, and how do they use water?

This is not just a problem in California, western droughts (which are a naturally recurring phenomena) are driving the pump out of the Ogallala Aquifer, an ancient reserve of water left over from the last ice age.

Human use of these commons, and I'll include the atmosphere here along with the oceans and the water reserves on land, affect everyone, affect the entire planet. And while many changes to the planet occur without human cause, there are increasingly many human induced changes.

The point being we should be thinking about what changes humans are making, why, and pursue a course of making better choices.

At some point, you will be paying for the water you pump out of the ground, that water is a common resource, and your use of it should be repaid.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Oct 20, 2014 - 09:24am PT
It is well known that they are the outlier on the high side.

No, they are not an outlier, high or otherwise. Are you just making that up, or did someone tell you it was true? By what definition of outlier, and with what evidence?

all the cries of doom

Did I cry doom?

and supporting scientism is viewed as science fiction, poor material at that.

No, what I cite is actual science, which you counter with rants and your deep faith in fantasy.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Oct 20, 2014 - 09:26am PT
El Nino bringos mucho caliente, no?

Second time (at least) you've parroted that talking point Sketch. Can you think it through at all? I guess we know the answer.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Oct 20, 2014 - 09:26am PT
BS Ed. You scientists need to get off your doom loving asses and study adaptation measures, how and where to most efficiently use resources and alternative methods of procurring those resources. You give the engineers some workable solutions and they can take care of the details. We dont need to go backasswards to live in a healthy eco system
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Oct 20, 2014 - 09:39am PT
Answer the question that you and the others insist on avoiding.

Chief, nobody is avoiding this, it's been addressed many times. But you are not reading, or remembering -- so why bother answering?

For example, I posted this same link last summer, on one of the previous occasions the same question came up. Don't recall? You'll forget this time too.

The observed global warming of the past century occurred primarily in two distinct 20 year periods, from 1925 to 1944 and from 1978 to the present. While the latter warming is often attributed to a human-induced increase of greenhouse gases, causes of the earlier warming are less clear since this period precedes the time of strongest increases in human-induced greenhouse gas (radiative) forcing. Results from a set of six integrations of a coupled ocean-atmosphere climate model suggest that the warming of the early 20th century could have resulted from a combination of human-induced radiative forcing and an unusually large realization of internal multidecadal variability of the coupled ocean-atmosphere system.

Several climate models accurately simulate the global warming of the late 20th century when the radiative effects of increasing levels of human-induced greenhouse gases (GHG) and sulfate aerosols are taken into account. However, the warming in the early part of the century has not been well simulated using these two climate forcings alone. Factors which could contribute to the early 20th century warming include increasing greenhouse gas concentrations, changing solar and volcanic activity, and internal variability of the coupled ocean-atmosphere system. The relative importance of each of these factors is not well known.
http://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/early-20th-century-global-warming
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Oct 20, 2014 - 09:41am PT
Whaddaya know... Chiloe... not being an as#@&%e... again.

Go ahead, Sketch, skip the name-calling. Can you think through your own point about El Nino? Looks already like you can't.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 20, 2014 - 09:47am PT



rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska

Oct 20, 2014 - 09:26am PT
BS Ed. You scientists need to get off your doom loving asses and study adaptation measures, how and where to most efficiently use resources and alternative methods of procurring those resources. You give the engineers some workable solutions and they can take care of the details. We dont need to go backasswards to live in a healthy eco system

Oh shut up. Just shut the fook up you illiterate hypocrite. First things first. So much energy is spent trying to get policy cranks like you out of the way. Like you care anyway...
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Oct 20, 2014 - 09:50am PT
Okay if its true they are not outliers how about posting Hadcrut, RSS, UAH, then.

As far as the late great 2014 El Nino goes, its here. What you see is what you get. Because of different wind patterns and the negative phase of the PDO it is manifesting in different locations and ways from what is expectef.

Oh STFU yourself Dirtbag girl/man/or crossover
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