Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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raymond phule

climber
Oct 18, 2013 - 07:36am PT
It is possibly that what rick writes make sense to conspiracy theorist but to everyone else it seems to be just gibberish.

The possibility that the earth is warming due to human actions just don't seem to be a possibility in rick's world.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Oct 18, 2013 - 07:50am PT
Here is the tale of another scientists road to transformation from CAGW proponent to skeptic.

http://www.mercurynews.com/pacifica/ci_24317137?avid-environmentalist-challenges-climate-change-alarmists-book-event
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Oct 18, 2013 - 08:01am PT
I'm fascinated by what occurred in the 1920s and 30s of Nazi Germany. How some folks obviously were able to see what was occurring yet huge percentages of the population justified and accepted the most horrific actions. A guy can see these same issues all through history when societies attempt to make difficult decisions or disseminate new realities.

Well said Riley

For me that is THE burning question from studying History.

This thread if nothing else is an interesting if slightly depressing case study of that phenomenon.
FortMentäl

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Oct 18, 2013 - 08:05am PT
The problem with this little uptopian ideology that created CAGW as the primary vehicle of choice to propel it's cause is that it doesn't provide advancement at all but rather retreat and admission of defeat by the challenges of the frontiers that lie ahead. It's path can only lead to withering of the human spirit, stagnation, and self enslavement by surrender of all individual ambition to an all controlling, totalitarian, governance regime.

You're insane, if you believe that. It's people like you, who believe that their actions stand above and isolated from the rest of the world, that can justify exploiting 3rd world countries out of their resources for nothing more than cramming their empty McMansions full of useless crap.

What humanity needs is a common vision that.....

Yes. Absolutely. So, how about tearing your lips from those Conservative Think Tank teats and start paying attention to those who understand something of the problem and getting on board that "common vision".
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 18, 2013 - 08:14am PT
Fukedtmental
....those who understand something of the problem.

95% certainty is now considered "something"




Hell. At least you're starting to see the light and be honest. For once.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 18, 2013 - 08:21am PT


What the fuk is with this for sh!t weather of late???...

It SNOWED last night!!!...

FortMentäl

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Oct 18, 2013 - 08:31am PT
Here is the tale of another scientists road to transformation from CAGW proponent to skeptic.

http://www.mercurynews.com/pacifica/ci_24317137?avid-environmentalist-challenges-climate-change-alarmists-book-event

Jim Steele is decidedly NOT a scientist. His specialty is habitat restoration, if that. He's not a wildlife biologist nor is he a climate scientist. As for his issues with butterfly studies: he's full of shiht.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 18, 2013 - 08:32am PT
Meanwhile, back on Planet Earth:

One Man's Bid to Be Recognized as World's First Official Climate Refugee

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/10/17-3


Regardless of what the denialists choose to ignore, the physical realities of AWG continue to march on...
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Oct 18, 2013 - 08:37am PT
Mono, I see by your deletion that you answered your own question.

Are you serious Kelly, one wacko looking for a handout?
FortMentäl

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Oct 18, 2013 - 08:42am PT
A "gem" from Jim Steele's website:

Why would an environmentalist be a climate skeptic?
Although it is wise to think globally, all plants and animals respond locally. Always!

Hooda Thunk!
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Oct 18, 2013 - 08:46am PT
Can't you read Mono? He refuted one claim of CAGW causation after another through finding local land use reasons.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Oct 18, 2013 - 08:48am PT
Again, where did he say he was an AGW proponent? Where does he say AGW is a hoax?

He is skeptical of some of the current AGW impacts on wildlife vs dynamiting and railroads.

That's a true skeptic, unlike the deniers we have around here.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 18, 2013 - 08:57am PT
Just another example of the ideological denialism that is sweeping the current liberal socialist German Administration. Failure IS NOT an OPTION, at ALL COSTS. Screw those that can't pay for the power.

Yeah, solar/wind Green energy is truly working for all the people in Germany.

Consumer advocates and aid organizations say the breaking point has already been reached. Today, more than 300,000 households a year are seeing their power shut off because of unpaid bills. Caritas and other charity groups call it "energy poverty."

Lawmakers, on the other hand, have largely ignored the phenomenon. In the concluding legislative period, the government and opposition argued passionately over a €5 increase in payments to the long-term unemployed. But no one paid much attention to the fact that those welfare recipients would subsequently see the extra €5 wiped out by higher electricity bills.

It is only gradually becoming apparent how the renewable energy subsidies redistribute money from the poor to the more affluent, like when someone living in small rental apartment subsidizes a homeowner's roof-mounted solar panels through his electricity bill. The SPD, which sees itself as the party of the working class, long ignored this regressive aspect of the system. The Greens, the party of higher earners, continue to do so.

Germany's renewable energy policy is particularly unfair with respect to the economy. About 2,300 businesses have managed to largely exempt themselves from the green energy surcharge by claiming, often with little justification, that they face tough international competition. Companies with less lobbying power, however, are required to pay the surcharge.

In this respect, at least, all of Germany's political parties are pushing for change. They want to close loopholes and more widely distribute the costs of clean energy subsidies. But even this improvement would translate into a relatively minor financial benefit to citizens. According to the SPD plan, an average household would see only about 70 cents a month in savings -- slightly less than under the plan Environment Minister Altmaier proposed a few months ago.

In the end, what actually drives up costs would remain unaffected: the haphazard expansion of wind and solar energy.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/high-costs-and-errors-of-german-transition-to-renewable-energy-a-920288.html
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Oct 18, 2013 - 09:03am PT
This issue is little more than a rhetorical exercise. The "alarmists" act like it's the end on mankind... and they attack anyone who isn't on the same page. This thread is a prime example.

When it comes down to adopting a global policy that would halt rising CO2 levels, NO ONE IS DOING JACK SQUAT!!! We all try to be environmentally conscious. Some more than others. But it's all window dressing. If you took the most eco-friendly Americans, I doubt their carbon footprint would be as low as the global average. There are exceptions. People like Eustace Conway. But they account for less than one percent of the population.

It's always amusing to hear climbers (other outdoors folks) get on their soapbox about this, considering the travel miles logged every year... for recreation.

Here's my take:

We're not going to do a thing about this. Not really. Not to an extent that would actually reverse the CO2 trend. The global population is much more concerned with getting by, than making major sacrifices to prevent something that might happen 50 years down the road. It's not gonna happen.

Think about it. To make an impact, we'd need serious participation by all of the industrialized nations and emerging nations. China,India, Russia, Brazil, Indonesia and Mexico would need to participate. That's just not gonna happen.

My guess is this will eventually lead to a scarcity of resources... that will cause a global conflict... which will significantly reduce the World's population. The survivors will adopt carbon neutral policies... and (possibly) thrive.

I'm confident this future conflict won't occur in my lifetime and I pray it's doesn't occur. in my childrens' lifetime.

I try to live my life in an eco-friendly manner. I try to minimize my carbon footprint. But compared to the global average, I'm a CO2 hog.

This is America. We all want our trips and our toys. I want my MTV.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Oct 18, 2013 - 09:12am PT
Sketch is solidly realist. The masses, those of them that pay attention, are turning solid realists in overwhelming numbers after years of hearing the wolves cry. Meanwhile, the doomists bitterly cling to their religion.
raymond phule

climber
Oct 18, 2013 - 09:18am PT

The "alarmists" act like it's the end on mankind... and they attack anyone who isn't on the same page. This thread is a prime example.

Who on this thread is an "alarmist" that believe that it is the end of mankind?

Most of this thread is actually about trying to discuss the science, is AGW true or not, and not about policy. The people that get attacked are attacked because the ignorance they show.
raymond phule

climber
Oct 18, 2013 - 09:20am PT

The masses, those of them that pay attention

to the same blogs as you do?
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 18, 2013 - 09:35am PT
about trying to discuss the science, is AGW true or not

In the mean time, nothing has or will get done. 40+ years and nothing. Just a buttload of "from the hip" attempts at implementing something that appears to be viable, in the short term.

But by God, we got keep that CAGW research industry growing. Just "got's to know". Hmmmm, let's implement some taxation to remedy this and give tha research industry more money to find out.


In the end it is a justification for you to continue doing what you want to do, careless of the consequences.

Getting in that VW of yours and going climbing this weekend ED?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 18, 2013 - 09:39am PT
Sketch brought up accurate points ..


Take the facelift this year~~ how much gas and oil was consumed by folks who shopped for supplies the drive all the way there. Then the bar b qs and the campfires ensue. While trash and debris was collected, there was an equal and opposite carbon thingy goin on eh?

The there is burning man lol.. A group of eco like folks for a lot of em, yet they give off a "carbon footprint" of the jolly green giant. 60,000 plus people all driving to the event. Then running generators to all hours.

Afterwards 10K tons of trash are the results.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Oct 18, 2013 - 09:41am PT
I thought Ed said before that we cannot individually conserve our way into salvation from the carbon demons? You also said we are near the physical limits of efficiency in our present energy production technology. I believe your only permitted route to the holy land was through behavioral modification by heavy carbon taxation and tilting at windmills.
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