Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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TLP

climber
Jan 10, 2014 - 12:46am PT
Rick, I read the link you recommend, and it is resoundingly devoid of practically any real technical content. The only point the writer made is that the models use too coarse of a grid of points to accurately simulate climate, and that because of this, incorrect conclusions may be drawn. He presents no analysis at all, zip, of how small scale bits in between the grid points throws the whole entire overall model off; nor of how his imaginary small eddies in the ocean somehow coalesce into something so large scale that the entire modeling result for the whole globe is wrong. It is pretty much just BS. And besides there's some twice as much text about the financial and status motivations of climate scientists as there is about the imaginary uncertainties. No wonder there's such lack of respect for the skepticism.

It's true that our understanding of the spatially and temporally large scale fluctuations in the oceans is not very good at all. But we have empirical information about their patterns, even though we don't understand those patterns causally (or for that matter even correlatively). They are not just totally random and unconfined in magnitude. So, it is feasible and reasonable to factor those known patterns into models and analysis of past data, much like noise canceling headphones work. And when you do this with the oceans and solar fluctuations, there's still a residual. If there were any data and cohesive theory that maybe it's fluctuations in heat emanating from the earth's core or something, somebody ought to run with that. But there just isn't any data or plausible theory, so we're left with the atmosphere.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 10, 2014 - 12:56am PT
But we have empirical information about their patterns

Under what standard time frame? And who established that time frame in order to ascertain it was/are a... viable pattern/s?

That there is where the manipulation or what you all eloquently call, the smoothing process, takes place.

And that is where this entire theory gets completely compromised by the humanness of it all and becomes totally bias.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 10, 2014 - 01:19am PT
Okay TLP, by the use of "we" and "our" in your post i assume you identify yourself with the soon to be extinct discipline of AGW climate science. You state "it is feasible and reasonable to factor those KNOWN patterns into the models". If this is so, along with other reasonable assumptions, then why are the projections of the models so divergent from observation-in particular why is Antarctica cooling and adding ice mass, why is their no mid tropospheric hot spot, why are large portions of the NH winters trending to more severe, why hasn't the global temperature anomaly not risen linearly with the increasing CO2. Yes, perhaps somebody could take a look under the rocks at the bottom of the atlantic, maybe the spread of the mid atlantic ridge has slowed down, thereby decreasing the much more than average .08 wm2 coming from the core there. Note to Trenberth-look under every rock,but not those. TLP, of course the article was largely devoid of science content. It was an expose on the cause and effects of science's detour from fact to fiction. By the way, do you have a name to match the initials?

EDIT:Bruce you forgot your up pointing arrows.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Jan 10, 2014 - 02:05am PT
username: Rick Sumner
password: Rick Sumner
TLP

climber
Jan 10, 2014 - 02:17am PT
A couple decades ago, there was a great rush in all biological subdisciplines to try to impart a molecular aspect to research. Molecular taxonomy, molecular anatomy, you name it: even molecular ecology! It was as obvious as could be that it was largely driven by pursuit of funding. Did that somehow invalidate the science that was being done? Not at all. (In fact, as unlikely and BS-like as it sounds, there's some pretty cool stuff that came out of molecular ecological studies.) There weren't hundreds of naysayers railing away that molecular biology is invalid. So, if I read something that's basically a little bit of thin soup and a lot of paranoia about pursuit of funding, it's not going to be very persuasive.

And BTW "we" as I used it is in the sense of humanity in general, or at least scientists collectively. Climate science is very very old - there would have been no agriculture without it - and whether the planet is warming or not is only a very small bit of it. Trying to start figuring out things about oceans and long-term patterns like what triggers glacial and interglacial episodes goes way way way further back than even when CO2 measurements were first made. It's totally to be expected that the current bunch of models may not precisely predict every aspect of the entire atmospheric, surface, and oceanic system, and inability to explain some of the things you mention is interesting but doesn't falsify the current tentative overall conclusion. I would love for it to turn out to be wrong, and I think it is not realistic to expect anything will be done to reduce CO2 emissions significantly or, more stupidly, even to prepare to be more resilient if it turns out we're going to have giant naturally-driven climatic shifts. So we're doing a huge geoengineering experiment and we'll just see what happens. I just don't see any solid enough scientific criticism of the theory yet.
WTF

climber
Jan 10, 2014 - 09:20am PT
A group of San Francisco environmentalists want to remind drivers that refilling their cars with gas is leading to global warming by slapping a sticker on gas pumps similar to those you find on a carton of cigarettes, The San Francisco Chronicle reported.

"The goal isn't to take transportation away from people and say, 'You're a bad person,'" Jamie Brooks, a member of the Bay Area chapter of 350.org, told the paper. "The goal is to create a signal saying, 'You need to change your behavior.'"

350.org is a group that seeks to build a global grassroots movement to "solve the climate crisis," according to its webpage, and the group made clear that the warning label fight is solely an initiative by the Bay Area branch.

I suspect that they are a non profit who pay no taxes. Well guess what dumb shits who's going to drive and put all those stickers on those pumps. Who's going to put a sticker on the power plants that produce the energy to make those stickers. Who going to put the sticker on the pump in china when they fill that freighter with fuel to bring you your f*#king stupid sticker. Oh and of course their from San Fran. The birth place of environment retardism.



The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 10, 2014 - 09:25am PT
Climate science is very very old - there would have been no agriculture without it - and whether the planet is warming or not is only a very small bit of it. Trying to start figuring out things about oceans and long-term patterns like what triggers glacial and interglacial episodes goes way way way further back than even when CO2 ....

Not one qualm in regards to the "Trying to start figuring out...." aspect.

BUT!

When that figuring out turns into changing/controlling the mechanics/processes of it all in order to attempt to suite the comforts and whims of mankind, that is where this whole deal needs to be terminated.

That is indeed where this whole agenda/ideology is headed per all the GEO-ENGINEERING/MANIPULATING of the natural world/laws that is currently in full swing.

Please, do not even attempt to state that is NOT where it is headed. It is clearly obvious per the postings of ED, LARRY, etal that it is.



Oh and of course their from San Fran. The birth place of environment retardism.

BINGO!

In other words, whatever you might think about my pedal power the preferred strategy is one of idiocy.

This is the ethic we are up against. They embrace idiocy.

NO!

What we are ALL up against is YOUR interpretation of what "idiocy" is. There lies the flaw of it all.

Unless one joyfully jumps on the bus of AGW, sits down on their hands, shuts the fk up and simply goes along for the ride with a big fat fakeass smile on their face, they are considered and idiot.

Go figure.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Jan 10, 2014 - 09:34am PT
How about a nice cold snap America?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!



DMT
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 10, 2014 - 09:39am PT
^^^^^^^^^And then of course there are them "Fence Squatters" that do and say what they need to in order to be part of the.... tribe.^^^^^


Which is worse... The "Fence Squatter" or the "Bus Sheep, Say nothing, Do nothing, Rider?"

I say apply all that science into figuring that one out.

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Jan 10, 2014 - 09:42am PT
Best to follow those of sound mind.


Uggs, lol.

DMT
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 10, 2014 - 09:59am PT
Well DMT,


I see that you and FUKEDINTHEHEADMENATAL have gotten together and out right been practicing your Kindergarten art courses.

Nice.


I suggest you ask your Daughters to lend you a hand in that arena.


Cus your first attempt truly sucks.


But then, what ya expect from a good old Tennessee ejected "Fence Sqautting" run off to Cali and then gotta wear a costume 24/7 to hide my redneck roots Boy... huh?

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 10, 2014 - 10:06am PT
Gee professor, haven't you been paying attention to the fact that the last five NH winters have been markedly more severe than those in the nineties?

Show us one single satellite or radiosonde validation of the projected mid tropospheric hot spot.

By whose measurements has it been shown that the atmosphere at Antarctica is warming causing water vapor release and precipitation in the form of snow- was it the cast and crew of the recent ship of fools?

I beg your pardon, no matter how you try to twist interpretations of reality the 15-17 pause in warming is real and verified by all accepted organizations measuring temps.

As far as TLP goes, he sounds like the luke warm alter ego of The Learned Professor.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 10, 2014 - 10:18am PT
I beg your pardon, no matter how you try to twist interpretations of reality the 15-17 pause in warming is real and verified by all accepted organizations measuring temps.

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSH!


Not happening. Not at all.



How dare you!!!!
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Jan 10, 2014 - 10:49am PT
Another fine upstanding example of FUKEDINTHEHEADMENTAL's Kindergarten class timed out into and then remained in the corner edu.



Niiiiiiiiiiiice.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jan 10, 2014 - 10:55am PT
Yo Fortmental, for a break from this gong show check out the 1st column, 3rd graphic here. Just posted -- that started from your suggestion.
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Jan 10, 2014 - 11:00am PT
Chef ragging on people from Tennessee... racist
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 10, 2014 - 11:06am PT
Come on TLP-" the current batch may not precisely predict"- you can do better than that, even the IPCC adjusted the graphic by "expert opinion" below the range of the models. They are wildly off.

Comparison of the rush for funding propelling the molecular everything craze of a few decades ago to the current rush for funding in AGW climate science is like comparison of a gnat to an elephant.

You are right, in the end very little will be done by way of mitigation or even preparation for climate change. This is a central tenet of Chuffian Darwinism and probably the major reason we continue to evolve. Adversity is the mother fooker of invention. What we face out their in the future is a frontier. Exploration and adaptive settlement in new frontiers is a neccessity for the well being of the human spirit.

Don't you think it is high time for the CAGW bubble to burst, before science is irreparably damaged?
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jan 10, 2014 - 11:21am PT
In spite of my better judgement, I'm sticking my slippery oar in the water again.

This is a pretty decent "for the masses" explanation of how climate change is related to last week's Polar Vortex.
You'll have to listen carefully and the explanation for this event comes near the end. If you've had
your morning whisky or toke, you might miss it. And yes, the details were new to me.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jan/10/white-house-climate-change-polar-vortex-google-hangout?CMP=ema_565
Pay attention to the graphics. Which unfortunately are not well presented.
Those durned fuzzy bearded scientists haven't learned yet how to explain climate science to 3d graders.

Malemute: thanks
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Jan 10, 2014 - 11:25am PT


cold air incursion into the US is due to meandering jet stream and it's going to happen more often

HT: any time!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 10, 2014 - 11:31am PT
Well, that was illustrative of at least one thing - The White House propoganda
machine is ON THE JOB! But that time lapse of the ice sheet fracturing and
rotating was awesome n'est ce pas?
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