Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Dec 4, 2013 - 09:55pm PT
they can't rub two sticks together.

As you all have been doing here?

No thanks.

Wilbur
60f tommorow,NORMAL,my ass.

Nor were those record breaking COLD temps you all had over the weekend.

Amazing how you quickly forget that event.

My bad. Your were too wasted all weekend to realize it.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 4, 2013 - 10:28pm PT
http://www.thepiratescove.us/2013/12/04/if-all-you-see-970/
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Dec 4, 2013 - 10:47pm PT
Do Libertarians buy gifts?

no. they don't trust Santa to distribute them to those who have earned them.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 4, 2013 - 11:43pm PT
K-man, see the Club of Rome and it's bible, The Limits of Growth, for an answer to why the leadership of the NAS,the U.N, many European Union countries, and many environmental organizations are lying through their rotting teeth. You've drank so much of the koolaid that it might be impossible for you to comprehend, but i can assure the majority of the populace have awoken and are fed up with the idiotic CAGW community and its transparent attempt to tax and control.

Now let's talk reality about climate change.

1. The one constant of climate is change.

2, We live in an epoch called the Holocene which is an interglacial period amidst a 2.5 million period of some of Earths worst glacial conditions in its 4.5 billion year history. The average interglacial lasts 12-14 thousand years. We are due any time for a return to full glacial conditions.

3. Approximately 150 years ago we started to come out of a period known as the Little Ice Age. The average ( if their can ever be such a thing) global temperatures during the LIA was 1.5 to 2C below the holocene typical.

4. There is nothing unusual in the amount or speed of the 20th century temp increase, In fact, the approx. .9C increase since the LIA doesn't even get Earth to average temps enjoyed during the Medieval Warm Period, The Roman Warm Period, or The Holocene Optimum.

5. Numerous proxy records confirm that atmospheric CO2 increase always follows temperature increases. The lag varies from months to millenia but no credible empirical evidence or study has ever been able to refute this lag.Temperature increases trigger natural releases of CO2 from ocean and land.Temperature decreases increases the capacity of the natural ocean and land CO2 sinks and atmospheric content falls.

6. Contrary to what the CAGW wackos claim Earths atmospheric CO2 content has often exceeded today's count of 395ppm without a runaway green house event. The historic periods CO2 content was not fixed at 280 ppm, in fact measurements other than those at Mauna Kea have produced numbers above 400 ppm as early as the 1930's. There were more than 17,000 measurements prior to Mauna Kea.Reconstructions from proxy records (which don't have the resolution to show short term spikes and dips) show a content fluctuating between 210 to 350 ppm over the last 100,000 years. It is undisputed that mans contribution to current atmospheric CO2 content is only approx. 3%.

7. The primary driver of climate is the Sun. The Sun's radiation intensity (TSI) fluctuates up to 1% from periods known as grand minimum's to grand maximum's. During the modern era of satellite measurement the accepted observed 11 year Schwabe solar cycles produced variations not exceeding .2%, but this period was almost completely in one of the most intense solar grand maximums of the last 6000 years. The CAGW wackos have disengenuously adopted not this meager .2% variation, but the even more meager .1% average over the satellite era as the maximum accepted solar variation. This is untrue, from peaks at the previously mentioned Grand Maximum to the depths of Grand Minimum TSI varies up to 1%, or in other words by an order of magnitude more than it is given credit for. A solar variation of 1%, over a period of decades can have a profound effect on average temps. Concurrently with variation of TSI is more pronounced variations in the Solar magnetic field, solar wind speed, and mass ejections. Also buried in this 1% TSI variation are areas of the spectrum, particularly UV that vary up to 10%. UV radiation ionizes molecules in the upper layers of the atmosphere and affecting the troposphere in ways that are understudied, but having distinct effect. Periods of reduced solar magnetic field in turn allows more cosmic rays to penetrate the Earths atmosphere causing up to 10 times the production of cloud nuclei possibly forming increased cloudiness during periods of decreased solar activity. From satellite observation estimates the period from 1987 to 2000 had up to 5% less global cloud cover than periods before or after. This amount of reduction would lead to marked increase in surface temps due to increased radiation penetration. Interestingly this period corresponds to the height of the global warming craze.

8. Second in line for short term (decadal to annual) climate drivers are ocean oscillations. The oceans absorb and store exponentially larger amounts of solar radiation than the atmosphere. These have positive phases warming the atmosphere and negative phases cooling the atmosphere. Some of these phases can be rapid and intense like the ENSO of 1998 which caused an immediate spike in global average temperature, or the positive phase change of the PDO in the 1970's that caused an immediate spike in the northeastern pacific, Chukchi, Beaufort and Arctic ocean and land surface
areas. For the last 12 years the PDO has been in negative phase and temperatures in Alaska have decreased an average of 2.4 degrees at 19 out 20 first order weather stations.

TO BE CONTINUED







Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Dec 4, 2013 - 11:47pm PT
Rick, will you please show the link to that source posting so I can read the entire article?

thanks
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Dec 4, 2013 - 11:57pm PT
The primary driver of climate is the Sun.

That's like blaming the mass of a car for the accident, instead of the drunk driver.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Dec 4, 2013 - 11:57pm PT
Can't you read? He says "to be continued".

Do you expect him to write his entire thesis in one afternoon?
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Dec 5, 2013 - 02:26am PT
Oh Ricky.... I know your sense of american exceptionalism will not think kindly of this but in the interest of schooling you further in competency and the Dunning Kruger effect, I feel justified in pointing out that at this point in history we - thats right, Canada - claim ownership of the finest demonstration of right wing values and socio/political competency (perhaps incompetency) in north america and even the world excluding Russia.

We are extremely proud of our mayor ( in title if no longer effect) of Toronto and his global leadership in this category. Again, in regard to this thread topic, I think his behavior can provide insight into the burning question of the day:

Does Right Wing Ideology result in incompetency, or does incompetency result in right wing ideology?


Or does the distinction mean anything in practical terms?




No need to watch the whole thing.... you get the idea in five minutes, although further along there is mention of "cultural myopia", which you must admit sums it up in two words quite well...
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Dec 5, 2013 - 08:08am PT
Chef,no record cold temps,just record warmth today.

I suppose that does not count with you and yours.

There is a conspiracy allright:

Credit: wilbeer
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Dec 5, 2013 - 09:07am PT
Chief,no record cold temps,just record warmth today.

Like I said, you were too wasted to realize what was actually going on around you.... typical.


With a large chunk of the U.S. having endured one of the coldest Thanksgiving holidays in years and even more brutally cold weather in the forecast over the next few days, 2013 is poised to have daily record lows outnumber daily record highs for the first time in 20 years.

Thatís a stark reversal from last year ó the warmest year on record in the U.S. ó when record daily highs dwarfed record lows by a staggering 4-to-1 ratio. Itís also a stark reminder of the vagaries of short-term natural variability set against the backdrop of long-term global warming.

According to statistics from the National Climatic Data Center, the U.S. had 9,023 daily record high temperatures through Dec. 1, compared to 9,932 daily record lows. About 1,000 cold temperature records were set or tied during the last week alone.
http://www.weather.com/news/science/environment/cold-records-beat-warm-records-first-time-1993-20131203
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2013 - 09:43am PT
K-man, see the Club of Rome and it's bible, The Limits of Growth, for an answer to why the leadership of the NAS,the U.N, many European Union countries, and many environmental organizations are lying through their rotting teeth.


Rick, thanks for jotting down your reasoning. I appreciate the time you've taken to answer.

From what you write, I gather that it's such a large conspiracy that even the scientists don't realize that their data is being skewed by a hidden power. Before it hits their screens, the data is that is being collected on the climate is being jiggered by the few who have the keys to the machines that report the data, and they make it LOOK like things are going warm. When in actuality, it's just a bunch of faked data. How else could there be peer-reviewed papers, where scientists come to the same conclusions using the available data upon which the papers are based.

That's a hard pill to swallow. Especially because we are seeing empirically what the models predict. Now that is some fancy jiggering!

But carry on, I want to see the rest of it!
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2013 - 09:51am PT
The Chief, record highs followed by record lows.

Does that to you indicate a stable climate, the status quo?



Wait! Before you answer, make sure your Bozo nose is shining red and hasn't fallen out of place from the center of your face.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Dec 5, 2013 - 10:09am PT
Does that to you indicate a stable climate

Oh, please do indicate where in the earth's 4.6 BILLION year history, such a thing ever existed.

That is the primary fallacy of this entire bullshet ideological agenda of yours KMAN!

It never has nor will it ever occur here on earth. It just does not happen that way.

Or should I say, the way you Utopians want/wish/dream it to be.


I highly suggest you, Wilbur and the rest come out of your nice cousy "STOOGE CLOWN DREAMER" closets and realize that earth's "climate" is not a static/stable component like you all conveniently presume it should be.


Remember, there are holes in them donuts.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Dec 5, 2013 - 10:43am PT
K-man, see the Club of Rome and it's bible, The Limits of Growth, for an answer to why the leadership of the NAS,the U.N, many European Union countries, and many environmental organizations are lying through their rotting teeth.

From this I gather that you've never seen The Limits to Growth. But what have you been told that it contains?
jammer

climber
Dec 5, 2013 - 12:33pm PT
topo cred...
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Dec 5, 2013 - 02:24pm PT
If we can't predict, than why are you trying to?

Precisely EDH.

Fact is, you can't and will never be able to.

Cease claiming that you can.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 5, 2013 - 10:25pm PT
Ed, your rebuttal is boiler plate idiocy. Many of your questions will be answered in the continuation.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Dec 5, 2013 - 10:31pm PT
then rebut Ed's post, Rick

take it apart, clearly and carefully, in detail

no clever little irrelevant personal digs, no emotional diatribes....

prove most everyone wrong when they say you don't have the intellect to do so


time to finally man up, rick

take it apart, clearly and carefully, in detail

or STFU, the choice is yours
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Dec 5, 2013 - 10:33pm PT
prove most everyone wrong when they say you don't have the intellect to do so
he can't because he's a dunce
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Dec 6, 2013 - 12:37am PT
You still don't get the Big Picture EDH. Science will not know whether it is correct or not in this case for at at least a century or more.

You all make your time frame 30-50 years to claim victory and state science is "correct". Now that is so human isn't EDH.

You and the others keep conveniently forgeting the key point here EDH, Climate is NOT static. It is very dynamic and has been so since it all started. To even state that you and science can predict it, well, again, that is so human and your ego talking. Nothing more.

whether or not it agrees with his own views, not whether or not the science is correct.

Pretty much an oxymoron there EDH. Science in this case is merely just the same, a "view". Science has not had sufficient time to clearly come to terms with the change at hand. Nor can it even begin to state it can predict where it is going.



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