Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 29, 2013 - 11:11pm PT
Fukedinthebrainmental
Maybe we should have all individually swum to Normandy in 1944. Or perhaps, if we'd wanted an interstate highway, we should have each done our own part and paved our driveways. Prisons? Hell if we want to incarcerate felons we should each put one in the basement. You want an iron skillet? Mine your own ore! Right?

And what does any of the above getting your ass beat by your spouse again rage post have to do with ...

The fact that all Electrical Power/Energy in the U.S. comes from Privately owned Power Sources and Grids. As well as all the fuel stations that the American people pump petrol into their vehicles.

Not one of the above is owned, managed by or directly regulated in any way by.... The U.S. Gov't.

The EPA's latest sly trick of hand is presently being reviewed by the Supreme Court. $10 says they deem it unconstitutional and remove the latest EPA's back doored Coal Fired PP mandate.



Supply and Demand/Free Market.


Make biodiesel more readily available and cheaper, it will stimulate the auto manufactures here to do as the Euro's are beginning to do. Produce more BD compatible vehicles. Same goes with CNG as Rick S keeps singing.

I am actually considering getting one of these after a couple of seasons to see how it works out. Be the first kid on the block to have one. Waiting to see if Ducati comes out with a Superbike version next year.

Ducati Diesel Monster 1078



The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 29, 2013 - 11:50pm PT
starting salaries for environmental scientists with a bachelor's degree are $38,090/year and average $68,810/year...

How about with a PhD.


Chiloe?





PS: Hansen was receiving a $180K per year tax payer funded salary for the lat six years of his position as the Head of GISS, NASA. Of which he now receives 88% (plus full medical/dental) of that for the rest of his life as retirement. Do the math.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Oct 30, 2013 - 12:08am PT
Sure Ed, but DOE is only one department of government that funding is funneled through. Missing from the budgets of multitudes of government bureacracies, providing funding to this monster, is ear marks like exposed in this article. Scroll down the article to the list- 600 million for climate change research. Now, this small contribution to climate change studies many billions in multi sourced fundings will really encourage study independent of "the consensus", wont it?

http://www.mrc.org/articles/hurricane-sandy-relief-networks-attack-gop-mention-pork-only-15-time
FortMentäl

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Oct 30, 2013 - 12:18am PT
Ricks information sources.... the reliably idiotic Free Republic:

Recovery Act spent over 600 million dollars on climate change research; billions on GHG mitigation

A gem from the link:

To be fair, some of this spending would have benefits other than simply reducing GHG emissions. However, the stated goal of this spending is reduced emissions, NOT the creation of jobs or the stimulation of the economy. Reducing emissions does not create jobs.


Some insight into this "news" source:
Free Republic is a wingnut message board focusing primarily on United States politics. It is particularly known for its regular posters (generally known as freepers, and not to be confused with readers of the Detroit Free Press newspaper), who have a reputation for being bigoted, pseudoconservative, uninformed loudmouths somewhat to the right of Fox News. Free Republic is considered, from a rationalist perspective, to be just about as reliable a news source as WorldNetDaily, and a great deal battier.

In response to a photo depicting President Barack Obama's daughter Malia wearing a peace sign T-shirt, Freepers began talking trash such as calling Malia a "street whore" and even speculated when she'd get her first abortion.

Repeating FreePers BS is big sport among the wingnut-rightwing-doochenut trifecta:

But they won't link to the complete AAAS report on research allocations for 2011. But I will.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 30, 2013 - 12:44am PT
Just more of your Liberal Bias Opinionated Scientism Blog shet FARTMENTAL, American Association for the Advancement of Science.

Nice.








The electricity sector of the United States includes a large array of stakeholders that provide services through electricity generation, transmission, distribution and marketing for industrial, commercial, public and residential customers.

There were also 65 power marketers. Of all utilities, 2,020 were publicly owned (including 10 Federal utilities), 932 were rural electric cooperatives, and 243 were investor-owned utilities. The electricity transmission network is not owned by individual utilities, but by Independent System Operators or Regional Transmission Organizations, which are not-for-profit organizations that are obliged to provide indiscriminate access to various suppliers in order to promote competition. They are associated in the North American Electric Reliability Corporation and are typically jointly owned by the utilities in their service area.

The electricity transmission network is not owned by individual utilities, but by Independent System Operators or Regional Transmission Organizations, which are not-for-profit organizations that are obliged to provide indiscriminate access to various suppliers in order to promote competition. They are associated in the North American Electric Reliability Corporation and are typically jointly owned by the utilities in their service area.


10 out of 3195 Utility Co's in the US are Federal Utilities. The rest of the 3185 are Public/Privately owned and operated.




The Petroleum Industry in the United States is privately owned.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Oct 30, 2013 - 12:57am PT
Both Rick and Chuff would hate this guy on a number of levels

http://www.cbc.ca/player/Radio/The+Current/ID/2414795377/


First of all, his allegiance to the sacred torch of laissez faire Capitalism is no longer absolute, in the face of facts demonstrated by the recent recession. 2nd, his ideology follows facts, not the other way around. 3rd, his favorite motto is "when the facts change, I change".

4rth - and by far the greatest crime yet - he now advocates for government regulation of financial markets for the purpose of supporting the precautionary principle.

Yes Alan Greenspan, former admirer of the ravings of Ayn Rand and chief architect of the past thirty odd years of US financial deregulation is apparently not prone to ignoring fact which destroys the basis upon which his entire lifes work rests.

but you try explaining such a concept to chuff or Rick and you risk ruining the story line in "Brave heart".
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 30, 2013 - 01:03am PT
you risk ruining the story line in "Brave heart".

And what was the Brewasky?







Oh yeah.... "FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOM" from the tyrannical grips of the British King and his Rule.



he now advocates for government regulation of financial markets for the purpose of supporting the precautionary principle.

How does that relate to the Power Grid and Petroluem because he never once speaks about them nor are they in his new book regarding his opinion on the future of the financial markets.

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Oct 30, 2013 - 01:11am PT
Pretty weak Ed, hiding behind the skirts of legislative language and not even all of it at that.

Bruce, that Ayn Rand disciple was an ignoramus at best, the criminal of the century at worst, between is nothing i ever saw as admirable.

Chief, you need to put a backup prevention valve on your sewage line to keep the turds from climbing back out to the surface. When you flush them they should be gone, for good.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 30, 2013 - 01:15am PT
But Rick, this is the modern day gospel from the God's of Scientism that we must all succumb to and bow down to. Immediately. Or it will be the end of us all.

Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Oct 30, 2013 - 01:18am PT
How does that relate to the Power Grid and Petroluem


It dosn't you ignoramous, but then I'd never expect you to listen to the audio which if you did listen to it and you possessed an intellect capable of following anything other than Mel gibson movies, you'd get my drift the first time which never once mentioned power grids or petroleum.

But then werner would also get that I wasn't talking about loin cloths either.

So forget it
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Oct 30, 2013 - 01:22am PT
Yes, of course Chief, sometimes i forget we should never question what Bagdad Ed, Larry, Moe , and Curly have to say on this most somber subject.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Oct 30, 2013 - 01:27am PT
Bruce, that Ayn Rand disciple was an ignoramus at best, the criminal of the century at worst, between is nothing i ever saw as admirable.


Same goes for you Rick. Thick as a post. Wether you thought he was a saint or Satan isn't the point.

But then, you generally do have a bit of trouble seeing beyond your certainty don't you?
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 30, 2013 - 01:29am PT
Right here EDH:



The bill also contains vast amounts of funding for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), intended for repairs and upgrades of its facilities and equipment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Sandy_relief_bill

On January 29, 2013, the Disaster Relief Appropriations Act, 2013, a $50.7 billion package of disaster assistance largely focused on responding to Hurricane Sandy, was enacted as P.L. 113-2.



CRS5

DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE
National Oceanographic and Atmospheric
Administration Operations, Research and Facilities $373 Million
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42869.pdf CRS5




Brewasky
It dosn't you ignoramous, but then I'd never expect you to listen to the audio which if you did listen to it

Don't need to. I got and read his book last month which of course your story telling radio show is based on...








BTW Brewsaky, you should study up on the real William Wallace. You most assuredly would consider him a total disaster of a leader of a people that wanted nothing more than to be free from the tyranny and violent rule of the English Throne.

How absurd of an idea huh Brewasky? Probably why your money still has the Queen and Her Coat of Arms on it.




Niiiiiice.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Oct 30, 2013 - 01:45am PT
Bruce, you should be glad we are here to entertain, ignore, and dismiss your "points". I imagine you'd be a lonely fellow if you didn't have the likes of us to laugh with and at you.

Signing off for awhile. Not taking a computer on my southwest tour starting tomorrow.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Oct 30, 2013 - 01:52am PT
Great. You should find the audio particularly pertinent and interesting then.

The significance of it in regard to this thread is his thoughts on ideology and fact. Regardless of what you think of his influence to date, I think it is interesting that he could so willingly change ideology based on his best understanding of reality. As far as I can tell he is the antithesis of an ideologue. Unlike so many others in his game, with the financial crisis he instantly recognized a fatal flaw in his economic theory and he has spent the past few years changing his theory to best reflect reality. The others double down on their belief structure regardless of fact.

What do you think about it? you've obviously read into it so you must have an opinion. I assumed you'd hate the guy and his attitude because I generally think you're an idiot ideologue unable to comprehend anything but Mel Gibson ficks but hey what do I know



Rick - Imagine all you like. I myself would imagine that is precisely how you dream up pretty much everything you consider as fact such as your certainty of the world wide conspiracy of scientism. Alex Jones is pretty good at Imagining too, in fact good enough to make a living at it...

Anyway, when either you or alex jones comes up with anything that can be substantiated by anything other than your imaginations get back to us. You know - when the facts change we will change.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Oct 30, 2013 - 02:31am PT
here. Just in case you're still a little too thick to understand what i'm saying, look at this;



When was the last time you ever saw anyone aknowledge with total candor and humility that their entire lifes work and beliefs were demonstrated as flawed? Think about it - most anyone else in his position would say anything but that with the sole purpose of protecting their ass .his loyalty one might surmise, is to the truth not ideology and he is willing to abandon key elements of his ideology if the facts indicate such.

I would bet a few bucks that he would think that a 97% expert consensus is a damn sight more valuable and representative of fact than any imaginations of a retired bilge pump operator, a siding installer, a taxidermist or any other Alex Jones clone.

Just an intuitive hunch
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Oct 30, 2013 - 07:40am PT
Yep smoking crack,so I can think on your level,CHEF.

I called you on our part of mitigation,and our demand that the gov.will take care of this,you are wrong.

As for not being COMPLETELY carbon neutral,you are RIGHT.A couple of trucks is all that stands between that.

That Ducati Diesel looks to be awesome,and as far as finding Biodiesel there is a map for that on google ,it is more prevelant than you may believe.Look it up .

If you would like biodiesel to be more readily available,lets see if it would ever be subsidized.[yeah that might happen]

Part of my buisness is mitigation,installing solar.

You are FOS.






Ed ,glad you set everybody straight about funding,another thing I have contended all along.thanks.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Oct 30, 2013 - 09:30am PT
After all of this talk and citing this and that, what is the general consensus per global warming?

Knowing none of the science whatsoever, I have still thought it queer that anyone should think we can dump a gazillion tons of hydrocarbons into the atmosphere daily and not suffer some fallout.

JL

I'm not sure who believes all our pollution has zero impact.

One issue I have with the discussion is what's "the consensus" on how much warming has been caused by man. Some? Half? Most? Nearly all?

I asked for the consensus on the level of anthropogenic forcings.

Ed Hartouni responded by essentially saying it's a factor. I'd say that's a position most skeptics would support. It's a far cry from “Ninety-seven percent of scientists agree: Climate change is real, man-made and dangerous.”
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Oct 30, 2013 - 09:49am PT
Good morning, Rick Poedtke.
The fact that all Electrical Power/Energy in the U.S. comes from Privately owned Power Sources and Grids. As well as all the fuel stations that the American people pump petrol into their vehicles.

Do a google for 'rural electrification program'. It's interesting.
Here's one hit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural_Utilities_Service
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 30, 2013 - 09:59am PT
Don't have to GARY. We have our own right here in my community. It is PRIVATELY OWNED and OPERATED. As is our water. We PRIVATELY OWN IT as a CO-OP.


Just another complete Socialistic hypocrite Gary.


How's that So Cal EDISON working for ya Gary? You know, the PRIVATELY owned and Operated POWER CO that delivers the power to your home.


Did you actually read what you cited??

RUS just INSTALLED the GRID bitd. It did not power nor operate it. It no longer exists in that capacity.

Modern day RUS only authorizes Fed Grants for rural broadband implementations. Just like the one that is currently going on here locally... "Digital 395" (http://www.digital395.com/awarded_contracts.html);. Work is being done by a Private Contractors and Service Providers, who will subsequently oversee and manage the infrastructure and delivery services of it all.



What a moron you truly are GARY.


EDH
no funding for climate research in the Hurricane Sandy bill

"NOAA: Operations & Research"
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42869.pdf CRS5

Semantic verbiage word playing Ed. You know it. Just like you do not work for the DOE "contracted" National entity that care takes the countries WMD arsenal.

Got it.



Brewasky....


HARRY WAXMAN!! Are you fking kidding me.



Ironically, that exact same "apology" by Greenspan will be mimic'd by your Senior AGW Croanies in 15 years when the temperatures stabilize then begins to drop and the CAGW/IPCC Ideology completely collapses. The Financial Market STATISTICAL MODELLING in this case was.... Wrong!

Got it.


Old Alan, like Gore and the rest of the current day high rolling Carbon Traders, took the ball and ran with it.... all the way to the bank.
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