Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Oct 27, 2013 - 08:22am PT
Wade Icey,that Letterman clip says IT ALL.
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Oct 27, 2013 - 09:45am PT
hey Chief and Ron.. have you guys climbed anything lately? or too busy hardening those ass callouses by sitting on your duffs being neanderthals on the internet?
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 27, 2013 - 11:43am PT
HEY NORTON!!!!



Found this one last night.

2001 SOHC desmodromic 4 valve 4-stroke V-Twin Monster with Desmo Race 3 EFI. #3 of 3 made. 162 miles on it. Dyno'd at 128bhp @ 6200 with top speed around 140ish. Weighs in at 395 wet. Beautiful FULL CARBON (even the wheels) workmanship.

$29K takes it home.


Bad to the Bone!!!

wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Oct 27, 2013 - 01:01pm PT
Utopian Version.

U.S.A.built Groovy Cycles Brook Trout 29er.

Credit: wilbeer
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 27, 2013 - 01:08pm PT
But that's how the denier game works: They seize on a small errors and inconsequential factual inconsistencies in a piece of climate research and use it to discredit the science and reassure people that climate change is no bid deal. In the 2007 Assessment, for instance, the authors and reviewers overlooked a sentence that asserted the Himalayan glaciers would vanish be 2035 -- an obvious misstatement, which deniers seized and used to suggest that the entire assessment was bunk.... It's like finding a misspelling in the Manhattan phone book and then declaring the whole book useless.

The second issue that has come up is the question of a "hiatus," or pause in the surface-temperature warming. Texas Sen. Ted Cruz recently proclaimed that "there has been no recorded warming since 1998." Not exactly, Ted. According to the IPCC, the rate of warming at the planet's surface is lower over the past 15 years, but warming has not stopped. In fact, since the 1950's each successive decade has been hotter than the last, and the 2000s were the hottest decade since modern record-keeping began in 1880.

To former IPCC chair Watson, it is crucial that these criticisms not go unanswered. "The IPCC needs to have an answer for this," he says. "They need to be prepared." But in Santer's view, climate science is rapidly approaching the point where it is immune to these kinds of critiques: "Up until now, the criticism has been that climate science is like a house of cards, and that if you pull out one or two sets of data, it all collapses. That narrative has been refuted. The Fifth Assessment shows that warming has a physical and internal consistency - it's warming in the deep ocean, in the intermediate ocean and in the lower atmosphere. Sea level is rising. Arctic sea ice is retreating. The observational evidence for human-caused warning is overwhelming, compelling and irrefutable."


On the Koch's

With a combined worth estimated in the tens of billion$, the super-conservative industrial magnates with vast holding in the energy industry are major funders of climate-change skepticism. Their latest move: Via the proxy group Americans for Prosperity, they have persuaded more than 400 members of the current Congress to sign a "No Climate Tax" pledge to oppose any use of government dollars to fund climate efforts that does in include offsetting tax cuts.


!~~~!
Now, who do you think those tax cuts help the most?
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Oct 27, 2013 - 02:05pm PT
Our energy use and habits, as well as those of much of the rest of the world, can be observed on this website, which has incredibly rich data.

The Energy Information Administration:

http://www.eia.gov/

If alternatives cost more than oil, the mere power of demand will keep our consumption the highest in the world. I wish that we were altruists, but we aren't. Everything around you has been touched by fossil fuels.

Rail is the most efficient. Air travel is the worst. Americans use far too much oil. We could cut our consumption by a third just by a change in habits. Jimmy Carter accomplished this back in the seventies. By the time Reagan had been in office a few years, the Saudi's were flooding the market to punish OPEC "cheaters" and with the cheap oil, we stopped conserving and rapidly changed our habits right back.

That website explains how energy markets work. I highly recommend it, as well as a book called "The Prize" to anyone with more than a passing interest in how and why we use fossil fuels.

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Oct 27, 2013 - 02:20pm PT
I witnessed the devastation of the Saudis flooding the market, the 86' crash created conditions in the oil states every bit as bad as the great depression. If these utopians had their way the whole world would be plunged into a depression much worse than in 1930's. Their ineptitude in rolling out socialized medicine, one of the central fixtures of the socialist utopianism agenda, should be enough to convince any thinking person that we really can't afford big government dictating energy policy. Base is right, in the real world energy consumption and the fuel of choice follow costs. If the eco freaks want clean energy perhaps they should refrain from consuming public resources/monies in endless study of unrealistic scenarios of doom and instead concentrate on engineering tomorrows cost competitive clean energy.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Oct 27, 2013 - 02:41pm PT
"It is crucial that these criticisms not go unanswered."

Exactly why I am here.K-man


BASE,while one could truly ponder your thoughts,It is true FF"s are everywhere.

How did it become that way?

There was a starting point,just as alt's are facing today.

Alternatives must be introduced to our infrastructure,they are the key to future DEVELOPMENT.

They are not a pie in the sky.

It is proven that all of them are coming down in price,through better design,manufacturing and availability .


Not to deter your points of lessening consumption .Because you are exactly correct. Cheers.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Oct 27, 2013 - 02:45pm PT
You know Rick, That Tea Party thing,you really ought to have that looked at.

It is all about you.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Oct 27, 2013 - 02:53pm PT
From Woodfortrees.org.:

From 1998 to 2012:

WoodForTrees Temperature index rose 0.033 (0.023/decade) or (0.23°C per century).

**Mauna Loa CO rose 27 pmm (over 7%).
**
I've heard the temperature "increase" we've experienced over the last fifteen years shouldn't really be considered warming. It's statistically insignificant. The IPCC said "there exists substantial multi-annual variability in the rate of warming with several periods exhibiting almost no linear trend (including the warming hiatus since 1998)."

The 2013 Antarctic sea ice extent maximum was highest of all time (in the satellite record).

The 2013 Arctic Sea Ice minimum was greater than five of the last six minimums.

Lastly...

The 2013 Atlantic hurricane season looks set to go down as a big washout, marking the first time in 45 years that the strongest storm to form was just a minor Category 1 hurricane.

There could still be a late surprise in the June 1-Nov. 30 season, since the cyclone that mushroomed into Superstorm Sandy was just revving up at this time last year.

But so far, at least, it has been one of the weakest seasons since modern record-keeping began about half a century ago, U.S. weather experts say. Apart from Tropical Storm Andrea, which soaked Florida after moving ashore in the Panhandle in June, none of this year’s cyclones has made a U.S. landfall.

Small errors and inconsequential factual inconsistencies, indeed.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 27, 2013 - 02:55pm PT
2014 "DUC" Diesel Monster!!!!

1078cc L-Twin cylinder, 2 valve per cylinder Desmodromic, air cooled.

BHP @ 100 @ 7500rpms 60-65MPG @ 5000-6500rpms

wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Oct 27, 2013 - 03:16pm PT
Yep,believe some guy from the UK,with invisible funding.

How many satellites does he have up there?

Do you have any References?

Is any of his work peer reviewed?

Just keep your answer.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Oct 27, 2013 - 03:17pm PT
I witnessed the devastation of the Saudis flooding the market, the 86' crash created conditions in the oil states every bit as bad as the great depression. If these utopians had their way the whole world would be plunged into a depression much worse than in 1930's. Their ineptitude in rolling out socialized medicine, one of the central fixtures of the socialist utopianism agenda, should be enough to convince any thinking person that we really can't afford big government dictating energy policy. Base is right, in the real world energy consumption and the fuel of choice follow costs. If the eco freaks want clean energy perhaps they should refrain from consuming public resources/monies in endless study of unrealistic scenarios of doom and instead concentrate on engineering tomorrows cost competitive clean energy.


Lest there be any lingering confidence about Rick Sumners whole charade of learned science professor this should lay it to rest. Classic right wing argument - stop funding natural sciences study (you might learn things that make you uncomfortable) and divert all tax dollars into economic development..... without understanding why, other than whatever you learned reading Atlas shrugged.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Oct 27, 2013 - 03:21pm PT
I absolutely agree that alternatives are better. However, if they cost more, nobody will use them.

I've lived in the bubble of oil and gas markets for my adult life. My conclusion is that our insatiable gullet for oil costs way more than just pump price. Why do you think we keep a couple of carrier groups in the Med and Gulf on the other side of the world? It is because those are going to be the last oil fields standing in another twenty or thirty years. We have already found all of the easy to find oil.

I will say this: There are several reasons why fossil fuels, and oil in particular are downright evil.

The quicker we get off of them the better. I was for the carbon tax under Clinton, but not the way he proposed it. He wanted to tax oil at the wellhead, where it is already taxed to death by the states (7.5% gross here). It needs to be taxed right at the pump. People simply will not conserve unless it actually hits their pocketbook.

Just look on a city freeway. People commute (alone) in a car for 40 miles to work every day. If we had made investments in light rail in all of the dense population centers, this would change things.

Some of it is simple: carpooling is easy to value. Some of it isn't. Such as getting fresh grapes in Feb. that were grown in Chile. On top of that you have manufacturing itself, although manufacturing jobs have fled the U.S. in my life.

So many lives go down the drain over oil. It isn't the actual oil most of the time, it is simply the price of it. We don't import much from the middle east, getting most of our oil from the Atlantic Basin, but the middle east is where the price is set because they are the only ones with any remaining excess production capacity. Every well in the U.S. produces flat out, and our finding costs are enourmous. The massive middle eastern fields have been producing for over fifty years and still have a ways to go. They don't have finding costs, only production costs of a few bucks per barrel.

I saw an interview with the Saudi Oil Minister last year that was really interesting. He said that if another energy source tried to displace oil use, they would dump oil onto the market to drive it out. None of the companies have this kind of muscle; to control price. Only the Saudis.

A lot of it is strictly about choices, though. There are three people in my house and we have three damn cars. I travel very little because I cyber commute, but it is still crazy. Even in high standard of living countries such as the Scandinavian countries can't believe that every person has their own car over here. They have one small one per family.
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Oct 27, 2013 - 03:22pm PT
On the propaganda front, a study comes out claiming “97.1% endorsed the consensus position that humans are causing (most of) global warming” even though the criteria for 2/3rds of those endorsements is implicit acknowledgement that greenhouse gas emissions are a contributing factor to global warming.

But Obama goes public with "97% of scientists agree: Climate change is real, man-made and dangerous"
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 27, 2013 - 03:28pm PT
Well Obama is right about one thing,, the CO2 being exhaled from our politicians IS DANGEROUS..Or at least the makers of it..
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Oct 27, 2013 - 03:28pm PT
BASE ,I completely agree with you.
crunch

Social climber
CO
Oct 27, 2013 - 03:42pm PT
we really can't afford big government dictating energy policy

Too late, rick sumner. Too late by about 100 years.

Oil prices and policy, for better or worse, IS an example of world-wide government cooperation and interference in markets (socialism? I dunno?) in action.

There's no free market in energy/oil policy. Hasn't been since the US government broke up Standard Oil.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 27, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
crunch

Social climber
CO

Oct 27, 2013 - 12:42pm PT
we really can't afford big government dictating energy policy

Too late, rick sumner. Too late by about 100 years.

Oil prices and policy, for better or worse, IS an example of world-wide government cooperation and interference in markets (socialism? I dunno?) in action.

There's no free market in energy/oil policy. Hasn't been since the US government broke up Standard Oil.





Ah, the OBAMA Admin/Gov't CAN NOT even get a simple website going for their prestigious new land breaking Health Insurance Network.


Please do tell how they will even get something this far more in-depth global endeavor issue off the ground?

Joke!



BASE
I will say this: There are several reasons why fossil fuels, and oil in particular are downright evil.....So many lives go down the drain over oil.

This once again coming from one who's salary comes from... "oil".


Reminds me of the old tale of a Career E-6 Desk Jockey Vietnam REMF who was ordered out to operate with the grunts. Once in the field, he starts whining about being sent to the front as he is loading his .50cal with a 200 round feed belt then fires away slaughtering what ever moves.


Funny.

Got folks like NATURE doing the exact same thing.


"We must Save the Oceans etc."


All the while he operates a Sushi Show on the side for a buck.




Niiiiiiiiiice!



Pathetic to say the least.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Oct 27, 2013 - 04:46pm PT
Oh...what do we have....a skidmark down the undershorts of humanity? Titanium dingleberries and an overdeveloped sense of self importance?

That is called Hubris. It isn't fun to be around, and I've only seen a few cases this highly developed in my life.

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