Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Oct 4, 2013 - 01:30am PT
fancy graphs man but you still can't say ALL the cod have poofed away. Get back to us when there is 100% no cod..... and even then how can you be sure? The ocean is a big place.


oooo - anuther thing. The recently discovered blackholes of the atlantic have vacumed all the cod into giant storage lockers - that there is what is known as a natural hiatus
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 4, 2013 - 01:32am PT
BITD fishermen just used baskets to scoop the cod out of the North Sea.
Then when they had screwed the pooch in the North Sea they had to start
going to the Gulf of St Lawrence. When that dried up they had to go
to the Grand Banks. Now...
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Oct 4, 2013 - 01:33am PT
Aren't cod as over-fished as anchovies?

DMT
FortMentäl

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Oct 4, 2013 - 01:35am PT
The oceans aren't big enough to hold all of the stupidities uttered by Chief Runs-from-White-Coats, and Rick Sumner, and Rong Anderson.

BITD fishermen just used baskets to scoop the cod out of the North Sea.
Then when they had screwed the pooch in the North Sea they had to start
going to the Gulf of St Lawrence. When that dried up they had to go
to the Grand Banks. Now...

I've seen a few of those 19th century harbormaster records of boats returning from an afternoon at sea off the Mass. coast...30' sailboats returning with thousands of pounds of cod, everyday except Christmas, only going a few miles offshore. There's even a compilation of these detailed records published somewhere...absolutely stunning reading.

Here's a paper that uses 18th century records of codfish harvests to model period biomass.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Oct 4, 2013 - 01:37am PT
I Am The Walrus.

Bharata

Mountain climber
Pune
Oct 4, 2013 - 02:10am PT
Look around and there is no climate change damage.
When you are asked to point out some human caused climate damage you
cannot.

While I can point out normal weather related damage to human property
everywhere.

History is full of floods,earthquakes, and droughts exposing peoples
poor planning.

And the Earth is not damaged is the least bit by our failures.


http://perfectastronomy.com/industrial-soot-linked-retreat-19th-century-glaciers/


Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Oct 4, 2013 - 02:14am PT
but if it is damaged,

what would you do to fix it mr genuis?

tell 10 billion people to quit driving and not to take a shower?

Planet of Doom.

Bharata

Mountain climber
Pune
Oct 4, 2013 - 02:37am PT
Like the speeding driver crashing into a tree these warmists always
blame the tree rather than operator error.





raymond phule

climber
Oct 4, 2013 - 03:25am PT

-Pay some $50-100K outta pocket expenses and then cut out that kidney, lung and heart as well based on a diagnoses that is less than 100% certainty.

-Invade a sovereign Nation based on less than 100% certainty that they have and are going to use WMD's.


-Allow a FED Judge authorize a Warrant to have DEA/ATF SWAT invade YOUR home based on less than 100% certainty YOU may have automatic weapons and a large stash of ammo stored in it.

And so on...

Got it.

Yes, of course do you really think otherwise?

So the medical white coat doctor that you see tell you. I believe there is a problem with your liver. It is a 95% chance that you will die in one year if you don't get a transplant. You are not going to get a new liver because it is not 100% certainty that you actually need one? You take the large risk of dying in one year instead of paying for the transplant?
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Oct 4, 2013 - 06:38am PT
Are you like a little fish Anita? Did you catch the Sea Bass in Baja?


I have no idea what you are talking about.


everyone knows it's all the stupid newfies that fished all the cod. and now there are none left and all the poor seals are starving. SAVE THE SEALS.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 4, 2013 - 09:32am PT
Holy Shet!!!


Them boys in Norway are fishing LESTER BROWN supported MONSANTO White Coat Geo-Engineered Ghost Monster NE Atlantic Cod!!!




WTF!





Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Oct 4, 2013 - 09:49am PT
Here's a paper that uses 18th century records of codfish harvests to model period biomass.

Nice catch by Fortmental. The collaboration between fisheries biologist Andy Rosenberg, environmental historian Jeff Bolster et al. is a stellar illustration of interdisciplinary frontier research. Their conclusion: cod biomass on the Scotian Shelf by 2005 amounted to about 4% of its 1852 level. There's no paywall at the link above, you can check out this paper for yourself.

Managing the remnants of the ocean’s resources is a critical issue worldwide, but evidence for what constitutes a healthy fish population remains controversial. Here, we use historical sources to understand ecosystem trends and establish a biomass estimate for a key marine species prior to the industrialization of fishing. Declining trajectories have been described for predatory fishes and complex coral reef systems globally, but few numerical estimates of past abundance exist. We combined historical research methods and population modeling to estimate the biomass of cod on Canada’s Scotian Shelf in 1852. Mid 19th-century New England fishing logs offer geographically specific daily catch records, describing fleet activity on fishing grounds with negligible incentive to falsify records. Combined with ancillary fishery documents, these logs provide a solid, reliable basis for stock assessment. Based on these data we estimate a biomass for cod of 1.26 x 106 mt in 1852 – compared with less than 5 x 104 mt of total biomass today. In the current policy debate about rebuilding depleted fisheries and restoring marine ecosystems, it is important to recognize that fisheries for key commercial species like cod were far more productive in the past. As we attempt to rebuild these fisheries, our decisions should reflect real and realistic goals for management, not just recently observed catch levels.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 4, 2013 - 09:50am PT
Avg temp is 22 degs in October with records going back to 1885??? Sure appears like MMGW as yet to hit SILVERTON, CO!!

And this RECORD looks a bit surprising!!!!!!

The highest recorded temperature was 96°F in 1929.



HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!






* AND who the fk said anything about COMMERCIAL COD FISHING???
I ONLY posted North Atlantic Cod. Which is still around,
available to be bought and still being SMOKED and EATEN.


Here's some Black Cod fishing off the coast of BC!!'


Them Smoked Black Cod are pretty good tasting as well.
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Oct 4, 2013 - 09:53am PT
it's snowing here. take that, global warming as#@&%es!
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 4, 2013 - 10:06am PT
These Norwegians are catching them Giant soon to be smoked and eaten Monsanto Geo-Engineered Ghost NE Atlantic Cods from the .... SHORE for God's sake!!!!

Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Oct 4, 2013 - 10:06am PT
I've done some work on human dimensions of the crises in Atlantic cod and herring fisheries, including Newfoundland. Here is an overview paper (also not paywalled) summarizing some conclusions across a number of case studies, from Newfoundland to Norway. It includes notes on the interaction between overfishing and climate.

Northwest Atlantic cod illustrate the negative synergy of environmental adversity coming atop overfishing. West Greenland stocks (first graph in Fig. 2) were reduced by peak overfishing in the early to mid-1960s. The fall after this peak coincided with the abrupt arrival in 1969–1970 of a pulse of cold, fresh Arctic water (see Fig. 1). Although warmer conditions eventually returned to West Greenland, they were punctuated by further episodes related to circulation changes and Greenland ice-sheet attrition (Belkin et al., 1998; Belkin, 2000) that created conditions off West Greenland periodically too cold for local spawning. Moreover, wind and North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO) related shifts in flow of the Irminger Current resulted in fewer cod being imported from Icelandic waters (Buch, 2000; Buch et al., 2003). After a small terminal spike in fishing between 1988 and 1990 (mainly exploiting a 1984 cohort arriving from Iceland), Atlantic cod virtually disappeared from West Greenland. Several other demersal species had declined steeply as well (Ratz, 1992, 1999). After cod declined, northern shrimp (Pandulus borealis) became more abundant, a trophic-level shift consistent with Pauly et al.’s (1998) description of “fishing down food webs.” An emerging shrimp fishery took the place of cod as Greenland’s economic staple (Hamilton et al., 2000, 2003; Rasmussen and Hamilton, 2001).

The 1990s collapse of Newfoundland’s cod fishery (second, third and a share of the fourth graph in Fig. 2) followed a similar pattern of overfishing compounded by adverse climate, near-disappearance of the dominant species, then a new ecological and economic prominence for crustaceans. Biological analyses point to overfishing, first by international fleets in the postwar years, then after 1977 mainly by Canadian vessels, as the primary cause of the cod collapse (Hutchings and Myers, 1995; Sinclair and Murawski, 1997). Cod stocks eroded to historically low levels in the mid-1970s, and made no more than a partial recovery before the Canadian effort ramped up. Climate added to the resumed fisheries pressure in the late 1980s and early 1990s, when unusually cold, icy waters off east, north and northwest Newfoundland (Drinkwater, 2002) reflected some of the same NAO/circulation anomalies that beset the final years of Greenland’s cod fishery. Cod abundance, size-at-age and catches all began falling after the mid-1980s peak in catches that Palmer and Sinclair’s (1997) northwest Newfoundland fishermen described as their “glory years.”
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 4, 2013 - 10:12am PT
WTF is this????


These Newfoundlanders have indeed got themselves some of them MONSANTO Geo-Engineered NW Atlantic CODS just last YEAR!!!!!







The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 4, 2013 - 10:17am PT
Large, high volume fishing operations???


Ah, who the fk ever mentioned anything about large high volume scaled fishing???

The Chief again disproves global warming.

Oh boy, here we go again with the lack of reading comprehension!!!

MONO, please do ref/cite any where on this thread where "The Chief" once stated that "global warming" does NOT exist.
raymond phule

climber
Oct 4, 2013 - 10:19am PT

Ah, who the fk ever mentioned anything about large scaled fishing???
Everyone except you on this thread? I know that everything is about but I don't even believe that you started the conversation about cod.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Oct 4, 2013 - 10:22am PT
There's a small museum not far from where I live that has photos and historical notes about cod fishing off the Isles of Shoals. Those "cod as large as a man" tales from the old days aren't false.

Gadus morhua evolved with lifespans of 50 years or more, adapted to the changeable North Atlantic. Large, older fish are more robust in cold conditions, able to hunker down in deep water and wait years if needed between spawning. Their offspring have higher survival rates as well. By removing almost all of the large, older fish, so few cod survive more than 5 years, fishing pressure took away a key adaptation to their environment.
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