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The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Sep 20, 2013 - 05:49am PT
Where was MMGW here Welber and Rileyup?

Talk about.... "EVER"

About 700 people died 75 years ago when the storm known variously as the Great New England Hurricane of 1938 or the Long Island Express began plowing up the Northeast coastline at 2:45 p.m. on Sept. 21, 1938.

A weather station in Massachusetts recorded sustained winds of 121 mph and gusts as high as 186 mph a major storm by modern standards that dwarfs the land wind speeds recorded in storms Irene and Sandy, which also devastated parts of the Northeast in recent years.

"It was the strongest, the most devastating, the deadliest and the costliest for the region and still is," says Lourdes Aviles, a Plymouth State University meteorology professor in Plymouth, N.H., who this month published the book "Taken by Storm, 1938: A Social and Meteorological History of the Great New England Hurricane."
http://news.yahoo.com/ap-photos-great-england-hurricane-1938-060139996.html


And this one....

On Oct. 12, 1979, Super Typhoon Tip's central pressure dropped to 870 mb (25.69 inches Hg), the lowest sea-level pressure ever observed on Earth, according to NOAA. Peak wind gusts reached 190 mph (306 kph) while the storm churned over the western Pacific.

The extreme winds of Tip knocked over a gasoline storage tank, causing an explosion and fire that spread rapidly through a U.S. Marine Corps camp at Mt. Fuji. The Associated Press reported that one person was killed and dozens of others were injured. Extensive flooding destroyed more than 20,000 homes in Japan, while hundreds of mudslides occurred. High-rise buildings in Tokyo swayed from the high winds as the typhoon struck.



And this one....

Mexico, Oct. 27, 1959[b:: Hurricanes are less common, and Category 5 storms extremely rare, on Mexico's Pacific Coast, making "the Mexico Hurricane" one for the record books. Hitting western Mexico with 162 mph winds, it took at least 1,000 lives and possibly twice that many, while destroying one-fourth of the homes in Cihuatlan (Jalisco state). A massive landslide near Minatitlan (Colima) alone killed 800. Venomous snakes and scorpions uncovered by the slide killed still more in the aftermath. It is remains Mexico's deadliest Pacific hurricane. 1,000-2,000 dead, $45 million damage.






ALL three of those Greatest Weather events "EVER", occurred before your supposed Man Made warming did.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Sep 20, 2013 - 06:07am PT
Where was MMGW here

Well, lessee... 75 years ago coal was the principal source of energy for industries. Cities were covered in black soot. Do you think some of that got into the air? Do you think perhaps the process of global warming might start with a few incidents then, as we continue to treat our atmosphere as one big garbage dump, these events become more frequent?

You should really abandon this thread. You have absolutely zero credibility on this subject. The only thing you contribute is more cerebral flatulence.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Sep 20, 2013 - 06:10am PT
might start....


Nice try pulling that one outta yur ass. But that is a big fat NOPE.

Keep them straws handy DOOMS DAY SOCIAL SCIENTISM boys cus there's a lot more REALITY coming your way.


REALITY vise your .... "MIGHT'S," IF's" or "CAN'S"
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Sep 20, 2013 - 06:18am PT
Regardless ,It is warming.

How will we deal with it economically? Kick the can down the road,Regulate to slow it all down,Search for alternatives or take personal responsibility to battle it?
No one in my camp wants to destroy the economy with taxes ,credits or burdensome regs. There is a compromise.Believe what you want ,but I personally am closer to the middle on this than you may believe. I have been operating a business since 1982.
Sensible solutions can not be exercised without compromise on this issue.

Regardless ,It is warming.

Are we the ones to pay for the industrial revolution's consequences? I believe we should do our part.
When one takes the side of the huge machine that the FF industry is,[They are filthy rich and are desperate to stay that way] does this help create a true compromise? Disregard,denigrate,and discredit science and fact. Support an ideology that is bought and paid for by the largest industry in the world. Is that the free market way?

How ,in this world, does that equate to self reliance?


Myself ,i did not just jump on some socialist,green bandwagon. In 1985,FF's ate up 15 to 20% of my income ,by 2000 ,it was feeding on 30%. I made some changes,so I am down to around 15%,even after some bad number years paying off solar and diesel investment. Those who say you cant,should do a little math.

Alternatives are not band aids.

Nonetheless ,they will be treated as band aids until they are not a compromise. Spoiled americans would not consider anything else.

Regardless ,It is warming.

I digress,johnny rig,I think you should read up on diesel facts.A tdi vw jetta is capable of 50mpg+,using regular diesel and easily capable of 45mpg burning biodiesel. Biodiesel jettas/golfs have the lowest CFP of any vehicle commercially available today,including electric vehicles. Yes you have to do some mods.



The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Sep 20, 2013 - 06:20am PT
Welber
Regardless ,It is warming.

WTF happened to "EVER"???


Hmmmmm. Yabadaba doooooo.


Alternatives are not band aids.

The current ones surely are cus they ain't viable for ALL humans nor are they working/affordable economically for most. Even Craig Fry whined that he can't afford to put 12 panels up on his roof to be part of the mitigation process.

If this was such a critical situ, just as you want to impose financial restrictions on the FF and Energy Co's, the current Administration can impose subsidies and demand the Alt Energy manu's lower their prices on their products so everyone in the US can immediately acquire & implement solar and wind devices at an affordable cost.

Instead of building a 9.95plus BILLION dollar Bullet Train based on obligated bonds and state tax payers money here in CA, the DEM Gov and Legislator can do the same. That would indeed put a buttload of solar panels up on millions of of CA homes. That would also build a large amount of desal stations along the CA coast and making a positive impact on the current water situ.


But, that aint gonna happen. Hmmmmm.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Sep 20, 2013 - 06:35am PT
The current ones aren't cus they ain't viable for ALL humans nor are they working/affordable economically for most. Even Craig Fry whined that he can't afford to put 12 panels up on his roof to be part of the mitigation process.

Well ,SON OF A BITCH ,I can finally agree with you.You crusty ole Chef.

My only point in contention with this is that if we are going to subsidize FF's ,and cement their addiction into our society,then I would like to see alternatives get the same foothold . So the Craig Fry's of this nation may have an opportunity.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Sep 20, 2013 - 06:40am PT
Yes Wilbeer there could be compromise. As I mentioned before the U.S. has reduced plant food emissions more than any other country simply by using more of the cleaner burning NG which is so plentiful and in close proximity to its end use markets. If we could just get on the same policy page NG use could be expanded even more. If you combine this with the newest generation nuclear fission plants, that are much safer than old, and throw in sensible renewables like hydro and geothermal, while doing R&D on the storage problems of wind and solar you could have a working system more efficient and cost effective as the old while satisfying everyone and eliminating need of most energy imports. You got to ask yourself Wilbeer- why do the radicals reject such a reasonable solution?
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Sep 20, 2013 - 06:42am PT
Fact is this is all a political sham. Nothing more.


Instead of spending 2.2 million dollars a day the past six weeks having two Carrier Battle Groups off the coast of Syria or spending over $2.9 Billion on a luxurious Palace and call it a Consulate in southern Afghanistan and consulate expansion in Pakistan (appropriated, started and completed during Obama's first term and approved by Boxer's and other dem led Senate committees), and.... well, you know where I am going with this...


My only point in contention with this is that if we are going to subsidize FF's ,and cement their addiction into our society,then I would like to see alternatives get the same foothold . So the Craig Fry's of this nation may have an opportunity.

Where's your DEM President, GOV's and State Legislators???? They have ample power to do so. But, instead they build 10 BILLION DOLLAR (more like 20 billion when it is said and done) BULLET TRAINS!

It is ALL a political sham. Nothing more.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Sep 20, 2013 - 07:04am PT
Chef,bullet trains mean jobs. Nothing more.
Is it more a political sham than a lobbying sham?
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Sep 20, 2013 - 07:06am PT
Chef,bullet trains mean jobs. Nothing more.

What happened to the end of world due to MMGW according to the same dude that is pushing to fund that bullet train???


Like I have been saying, it is all complete bullshet.


That dude, GOV Brown's personal home, and Barbara Boxer's home, not one mitigating install on em.
NOT ONE!

Browns





Hypocrisy at it's best.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Sep 20, 2013 - 07:12am PT
Where did he say it was the end of the world?
Where did i say ,i want to tax,or impose financial restrictions on the the FF industry?

Equal Foothold.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Sep 20, 2013 - 07:16am PT
"Five years from now, it's over," unless we change our ways sooner, he said.
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_23309303/enviromentalists-question-whether-gov-jerry-browns-actions-match
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 20, 2013 - 07:17am PT
You got to ask yourself Wilbeer- why do the radicals reject such a reasonable solution?

Why dwell on what the radicals think? Oh yeah..... Red state america is a lot of radicals.


But before we leave the inconsequence of science for good and move onto policy, I think Rick you are going to have to explain your principle that you cling so courageously to. Remember, as Chuff pointed out anf you agreed 100%, this is entirely a matter of principle. First - don't give me any crap about " If I have to explain it to you you can't possibly understand". Everyone in the room knows that is a blazingly obvious cop out. We are climbers here and we do know self reliance for that if no other reason. You clearly have another take on it and if you are going to hang your whole hat on it you better cough up.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Sep 20, 2013 - 07:32am PT
Doesn't square with the principles practiced by the climbers of old, now does it Bruce. All I can say is look at threads like the bolt wars slab. The principles have changed and many of us are the soon to be extinct dinosaurs. Looks like you have belatedly adopted the new realities, good for you for being a 21st century doom and gloomer. Look, their are two states of the general human condition- climbing upwards and outwards in advancement or dynamic retreat downwards into the void in defeat. I see no example of any "sustainable" civilization in human history. Why do you think we could accomplish this impossible feat now?
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 20, 2013 - 07:43am PT
the climbers of old? Are you saying that this generation of climbers are lacking in your principle? That is quite an accusation and I'm not sure how Jason Kruk and Hayden Kennedy and a host of others might regard that. You speak in a way that seems to dance around direct language. Is this because you are sage and wise or because you can't quite commit to your principle? Don't be so opaque. Spit it out.

your last statement is curious. Again, no need to be so obtuse. Are you implying that humanity is by its very nature incapable of sustainable behavior or ethic? Are you sure you are not a christian of the Armagedon persuasion?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Sep 20, 2013 - 07:52am PT
Their are exceptions, as you note. The general principle of the current climbing masses are going the opposite way to nanny state recreationally safe climbing as is our society as a whole. Given the general acceptance of the principle of leveling the playing field to the lowest common denominator, where is the atmosphere that promotes innovation and advancement and how long will those lone practitioners of the old ways be allowed to practice their craft without interference?

Sustainability in a constantly evolving world is a dangerous illusion.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Sep 20, 2013 - 07:53am PT
I see no example of any "sustainable" civilization in human history.

So why do you bother participating in this one?

DMT
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Sep 20, 2013 - 08:05am PT
DMT- Bruce was asking of our interpretation and/or acceptance of Chuffian Darwinism. I'm just providing my interpretation and affirming my acceptance of it's finer points.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Sep 20, 2013 - 08:11am PT
you can't possibly understand". Everyone in the room knows that is a blazingly obvious cop out

Please do tell us Brewsky, what have you personally done to do your part in "physically" mitigating this "potential" future catastrophe???
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 20, 2013 - 08:11am PT
how long will those lone practitioners of the old ways be allowed to practice their craft without interference?


There is no indication of interference now. I know what you are getting at but if you really want to practice a high level of self reliance there really is no shortage of north face of north twins or Bachar Yarians, or for that matter virgin rock. Come off it Rick this line of reasoning has little to do with restricting their pursuit of life liberty and happiness (self reliance) and everything to do with stomping out those who are deemed of lesser principle.

There is nothing new going on here. Principle has been at the fore of many a motivation. The early Americans were principled in their belief that the Indians must be destroyed and the Black slaves were rightly enslaved. The Nazi's were extremely principled people and the Taliban are capable of proving it with their lives. Obviously the fact of courage of your convictions does not justify principle alone. All the above motivating principles have been slaughtered by the test against reality - if you are willing to test it.
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