Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
May 14, 2014 - 11:50am PT
scientists are portraying
Scientists don't portray, they report the facts they have observed.
You're a moron.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
May 14, 2014 - 11:54am PT
To me, Sketch, it looks like the media reporting you do believe are the reports whose messages align with your opinion, and those opinions are not based on sound science.

Lol sketch!

DMT
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
May 14, 2014 - 01:51pm PT
 <br/>


Credit: Wade Icey
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 14, 2014 - 01:57pm PT
^^^HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa^^^

im not here to condone with the tribe. Or condemn.

Only for the Comic Relief!!

Chief you should your own radio show. I'd love to hear these guyses gasps after you spank'em!
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 14, 2014 - 02:38pm PT
For you O'Canada

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GsgVspgy184


KAAALUKCUCUCACUCUCANUCK
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 14, 2014 - 02:41pm PT
One way to learn what scientists are saying is to read their own words, instead of relying on the opinions of non-scientist bloggers. For example, from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory site here is Eric Rignot, lead author of the new West Antarctic observational study, summarizing their conclusions:
These glaciers already contribute significantly to sea level rise, releasing almost as much ice into the ocean annually as the entire Greenland Ice Sheet. They contain enough ice to raise global sea level by 4 feet (1.2 meters) and are melting faster than most scientists had expected. Rignot said these findings will require an upward revision to current predictions of sea level rise.

"This sector will be a major contributor to sea level rise in the decades and centuries to come," Rignot said. "A conservative estimate is it could take several centuries for all of the ice to flow into the sea."

The accelerating flow rates, lack of pinning points and sloping bedrock all point to one conclusion, Rignot said.

"The collapse of this sector of West Antarctica appears to be unstoppable," he said. "The fact that the retreat is happening simultaneously over a large sector suggests it was triggered by a common cause, such as an increase in the amount of ocean heat beneath the floating sections of the glaciers. At this point, the end of this sector appears to be inevitable."
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 14, 2014 - 03:08pm PT

"The collapse of this sector of West Antarctica appears to be unstoppable," he said. "The fact that the retreat is happening simultaneously over a large sector suggests it was triggered by a common cause, such as an increase in the amount of ocean heat beneath the floating sections of the glaciers. At this point, the end of this sector appears to be inevitable."

Are these glaciers saltwater or freshwater?
If their freshwater, maybe we could tug'em up to Cali and offload'em in Stockton so they could water the San Joaquin? Since their gonna die anyway..
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 14, 2014 - 03:25pm PT
Are these glaciers saltwater or freshwater?

Fresh. It's an idea that has been thought up many times. For a snapshot of its history, check out this 2011 article from Atlantic on "The Many Failures and Few Successes of Zany Iceberg Towing Schemes." A few excerpts:
Mid 1800s: According to the Encyclopedia of Antartica, small icebergs were towed from southern Chile up to Valparaiso as part of the brewery supply chain. A Chilean researcher said, "The icebergs were towed by ships of the conventional type. Sometimes the icebergs were supplied with sails to utilize the prevailing winds. The ice was used for refrigerating purposes in the breweries and was generally substituted for artificial ice." Apparently, the business continued until about the turn of the century.
March 9, 1914: A short notice in The Washington Times describes a new iceberg towing operation being advertised in area papers. "The Northern Berg Ice Company is planning to tow icebergs into Boston, New York, Baltimore, and Philadelphia, exhibit them excursion steamers, and then dynamite the bergs into small pieces for market. No names of interested capitalists have as yet been made public, and the advertisements came as a surprise to ice dealers, who say the scheme is not practical."
October 1973: The RAND Corporation dives 96 pages deep on "Antarctic Icebergs as a Global Fresh Water Source" for the National Science Foundation. By far the most comprehensive scheme to date, J.L. Hult and N.C. Ostrander went far beyond previous speculations to create an actual paper model of how an "iceberg train" could work. This is classic RAND work with lots of math and appendices. It made them a national media story. "Bringing icebergs to where the water is needed was suggested by John Isaacs of Scripps Institute of Oceanography in the 1950s," Hult told the AP. "It is our job to show how practical it is." Their scheme was inspired more by theoretical least-cost equations more than common sense. For example, they suggested sending a floating nuclear power plant to provide power for the operation.
Present: Iceberg towing is now commonplace in the Arctic near oil rigs. There are fairly standard procedures for dealing with all sizes of bergs and some upwards of 4 million tonnes have been towed successfully, according to a Canadian government report.

The crazy scheme side of the iceberg towing industry continues apace. And the breathless media reporting on such things continues as well. This is one of these ideas that no matter how many times you repeat it remains some wild guy's wacky idea. Here's Wired UK on the latest iceberg towing suggestion by Frenchman Georges Mougin, who worked with Prince Faisal way back when.

"French engineer Georges Mougin has a big idea. He wants to go to Antarctica, tie a big rope around a six-million-ton iceberg, drag it back to Africa and melt it into fresh, drinkable water. Some might call him crazy, but Mougin reckons the plan could work."

Indeed he does, like so many before him.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 14, 2014 - 03:46pm PT
Wow Chiloe I never would'a thunk!

How about,

Iceberg Beer! Made with billion yr old water. If it didn't taste good, atleast the critics could say,"it tastes like billion yro horse piss!"
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 14, 2014 - 03:50pm PT
I've never tried iceberg beer but have cooled drinks with glacier ice chunks. They made snapping sounds as air bubbles embedded in the ice for ages were liberated to rejoin the atmosphere. A cool thought, it seemed at the time.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 14, 2014 - 03:58pm PT
^^^ Interesting.

I wonder if they could catch that air and take a co2 measurement and compare it with today's air? Maybe we could bottle the air for future sales?

Humm. Nature releasing fresh water and fresh air back into its environment.
Almost sounds like a plan?
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 14, 2014 - 04:09pm PT
I wonder if they could catch that air and take a co2 measurement and compare it with today's air?

That's pretty much how we know so much about atmospheric CO2 over the past 800,000 years or so, as in graphs like this. (I might mention that CO2 actually is higher now, above 400ppm, than it was when this graph was drawn a few years ago.)

matisse

climber
May 14, 2014 - 04:13pm PT
get your iceberg beer here:
http://www.quidividibrewery.ca/
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 14, 2014 - 04:15pm PT
Hah, Quidi Vidi! I should go back there and try it.

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2014 - 04:27pm PT
It always amusing to watch alarmists misrepresent my views. You just make sh1t up, that has nothing to do with anything I've posted... and try to claim it's my position.


(1) I can cite numerous posts of yours where you purposely misrepresent what I've said. Don't make me go back and quote you, it won't show a positive reflection of your personality.

(2) I got my views of your beliefs from your posts. Would you like me to quote some of your opinions? I don't have to go far back to see the cartoon you posted about the ice melting in Antarctica. If that 'toon doesn't represent your view, then why did you post it (it contained a lot of misinformation and wasn't really funny)?

(3) The "reasonable study" you posted is a five-year old OpEd. By your own calculation, the US has spent $100B on climate change research in the time since that OpEd was published.

Sketch, why don't you believe current studies??


How about the military, do you believe what they are now saying?


A report released Tuesday from an advisory group of retired U.S. military leadership echoes the findings of other recent reports on climate change: It is real, it is already happening and it poses major threats to the U.S. and the rest of the world.

The federally funded Center for Naval Analyses and its Military Advisory Board, a group of 16 retired three- and four-star generals and admirals, affirm in the report that climate events like flooding, prolonged drought and rising sea levels, and the subsequent population dislocation and food insecurity, will serve as "catalysts for instability and conflict" in vulnerable regions of the world.

"We no longer have the option to wait and see," former Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta write in a foreword to the report, which they describe as a "bipartisan call to action."


link: Climate Change Is A Growing National Security Concern, Say Retired Military Leaders



Last Call for the Clown Car!!!
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 14, 2014 - 05:25pm PT
There's something BLUEBLOCR doesn't understand about the water cycle on earth. It is closed.
I'm not going to take the time to explain how using icebergs for water supply is not going to reduce ocean rise. It will in fact accelerate it.

EDIT: correction. It was not Chief who was talking about towing ice flows for a fresh water source it was BLUEBLOCR
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
May 14, 2014 - 06:00pm PT
Does Chuff understand anything that involves facts or arithmetic? Doubt it.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 14, 2014 - 06:31pm PT
Chief
Indeed, my apologies. It was BLUEBLOCR. I'll edit my post. My error was unintentional.
I see that you've been doing some research and are thinking critically about it. I don't agree with your conclusions.

The DOD report on climate change was signed by Chertoff and Panetta. Doesn't get more bipartisan than that.
"We no longer have the option to wait and see," former Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta write in a foreword to the report, which they describe as a "bipartisan call to action."
You'll notice neither of them is now in government. You'd be hard pressed to find any ulterior motives.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2014 - 07:06pm PT
Let's see three.

Sketch, what will you do when I post references of you misrepresenting other people's words? Come back with more meaningless on-line quips? maybe I'll take the time, maybe not. But I'll be sure to point it out the next time you use the disingenuous tactic.


What do you think my views are based on my posting that cartoon?

Why post the cartoon if they don't represent your views? Also, the cartoon seems to follow the view you take in all your other posts to this topic, so what clue do you give that it's not your view of the topic?

Or, are we to believe that you just post BS for the thrill of knowing it's BS. Seems like that would be a great way to waste your time, if that's the case.

You claim it [the cartoon] contained a lot of misinformation. Please elaborate.

The cartoon says, "On the one hand there might be some melting in 1000 years time ..." That is misinformation plain and simple. Especially because it's a direct remark about reports of the ice melting over the next 1-200 years. Are you that dim to not see this?

Yes, I'm beginning to get you. Post BS, then claim you are too ignorant to know the difference.

What current studies are you talking about?


Try to keep up boy, there's links to them a couple of pages back. I thought you saw them, especially because you've already remarked on them (this is where I could with a clear conscience call you a dipshit).


HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
May 14, 2014 - 09:50pm PT
The point Chief is that just as Panetta is liberal, Chertoff is conservative. Fair and Balanced unlike Faux News which is neither.
Chertoff was Bush II's 2nd Secretary of Homeland Security. The guy who waived the Endangered Species Act and Clean Water Act to build the southern border fence.
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