Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2014 - 01:59am PT
Let's get it straight people. The earth is not going to burn.


Nothing like the solace that is spread from the opinion of a level-headed friend.



Level-headed... ?

The frequency and intensity of storms is not increasing, rather it is decreasing. Droughts and heatwaves are not increasing, rather only the much hyped media coverage is increasing.


Rick, tell the "hyped media" to turn down the heat in Texas, they're dyin' down there.
Pam

Social climber
San Clemente, CA
May 14, 2014 - 02:37am PT
I'm not infatuated with the study of rappelling - that's me on the cover. I'm only nameless because they won't let me edit my nickname. And I'm not reacting or responding to anything but the original subject.

I think I might be one of the few republicans on this site... which is surprising and disappointing because I always pegged climbers as intelligent freethinkers who aren't easily swayed by hype and mainstream thinking. In this day and age, nothing is more mainstream than left-wing ideology. I would've thought we'd have more diversity of thought.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 14, 2014 - 03:49am PT
...the international cabal of fascist ecofreaks posing as warm and fuzzy socialists...
That fact people lept upon this particular Jonas Goldberg meme is another indicator of just how ignorant people can be and how much guys like him, Rove and Atwater depend on that to make bank.
raymond phule

climber
May 14, 2014 - 04:15am PT

Have you ever noticed that you can ride in a plane for hours and hours and not see any evidence of human beings? Then ... a smidgen of civilization for a few minutes, before more hours of nothingness.

Yes, this is true both over the arctic and the atlantic ocean! Over other land masses, not really actually.

Have you flown over north america, south america, europe, Africa or Asia or was it the clouds that made you come up with that ridiculous notice?
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2014 - 04:50am PT
Have you ever noticed that you can ride in a plane for hours and hours and not see any evidence of human beings?

Um, you mean as you fly over the ocean? Yes, interesting how there are fewer folks out at sea. But, sit next to the window next time you fly and see how long you can go without seeing evidence of human beings as you cross land.

This point of yours, along with most of your others Rapunzel, is pretty flimsy. You compare various "studies" and OpEd articles (such as "Vitamin C will cure everything") to serious scientific research, which makes for pretty weak sauce in a serious debate.

And, Doctors don't wing it. They rely on years of study and practice to make decisions about how to act. Successful doctors get their actions right more times than not because of the knowledge they've gained over their years of study. In a legal battle, you'd be happy to see me as your opposing attorney because you'd know within a second that you had more knowledge and experience in the law than I, and you'd crush me. Now, I'd be the one winging it, right? That's because you couldn't in your right mind call me a lawyer!

Again, weak sauce.



I think I might be one of the few republicans on this site... which is surprising and disappointing because I always pegged climbers as intelligent freethinkers who aren't easily swayed by hype and mainstream thinking.

Actually, there have been a few stalwart republicans on this site. I'm sure you'll soon find a nice connection with John E. However, from what I've seen, most republicans who have joined this forum have gotten their political opinions fed to them from Fox News. Hardly intelligent freethinkers.


Now, a small quiz Rapunzel. If we increase the CO2 in the atmosphere, does that cause the Ph in the ocean to increase or decrease, and how confident are you in your answer?

I ask because I'm curious to know if you believe in the results of scientific study.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 14, 2014 - 11:12am PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#357889
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2014 - 11:13am PT
I'm skeptical of the media's coverage of climate related research.

From NBC:

West Antarctic Ice Sheet's Collapse Triggers Sea Level Warning

Two teams of scientists say the long-feared collapse of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet has begun, kicking off what they say will be a centuries-long, "unstoppable" process that could raise sea levels by as much as 15 feet.

The Guardian:

Western Antarctic ice sheet collapse has already begun, scientists warn

Two separate studies confirm loss of ice sheet is inevitable, and will cause up to 4m of additional sea-level rise

    Sketch



Sketch, I find it interesting that you cite different media sources whose reports say basically the same thing. Are you skeptical because the message isn't what you want to hear?


Are you less skeptical of this media report?


“Our climate is always changing. And what they have chosen to do is take a handful of decades of research and say that this is now evidence of a longer-term trend that's directly and almost solely attributable to man-made activities… I do not believe that human activity is causing these dramatic changes to our climate the way these scientists are portraying it.”


Sketch, you seem to favor the latter media message over the first two, even though the latter is an opinion and the first two are describing the analysis of data gained through scientific research.

To me, Sketch, it looks like the media reporting you do believe are the reports whose messages align with your opinion, and those opinions are not based on sound science.

So while you say you "mostly" believe in science, your views of climate change are based on non-scientific opinion.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
May 14, 2014 - 11:50am PT
scientists are portraying
Scientists don't portray, they report the facts they have observed.
You're a moron.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
May 14, 2014 - 11:54am PT
To me, Sketch, it looks like the media reporting you do believe are the reports whose messages align with your opinion, and those opinions are not based on sound science.

Lol sketch!

DMT
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
May 14, 2014 - 01:51pm PT
 <br/>


Credit: Wade Icey
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 14, 2014 - 01:57pm PT
^^^HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa^^^

im not here to condone with the tribe. Or condemn.

Only for the Comic Relief!!

Chief you should your own radio show. I'd love to hear these guyses gasps after you spank'em!
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 14, 2014 - 02:38pm PT
For you O'Canada

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GsgVspgy184


KAAALUKCUCUCACUCUCANUCK
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 14, 2014 - 02:41pm PT
One way to learn what scientists are saying is to read their own words, instead of relying on the opinions of non-scientist bloggers. For example, from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory site here is Eric Rignot, lead author of the new West Antarctic observational study, summarizing their conclusions:
These glaciers already contribute significantly to sea level rise, releasing almost as much ice into the ocean annually as the entire Greenland Ice Sheet. They contain enough ice to raise global sea level by 4 feet (1.2 meters) and are melting faster than most scientists had expected. Rignot said these findings will require an upward revision to current predictions of sea level rise.

"This sector will be a major contributor to sea level rise in the decades and centuries to come," Rignot said. "A conservative estimate is it could take several centuries for all of the ice to flow into the sea."

The accelerating flow rates, lack of pinning points and sloping bedrock all point to one conclusion, Rignot said.

"The collapse of this sector of West Antarctica appears to be unstoppable," he said. "The fact that the retreat is happening simultaneously over a large sector suggests it was triggered by a common cause, such as an increase in the amount of ocean heat beneath the floating sections of the glaciers. At this point, the end of this sector appears to be inevitable."
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 14, 2014 - 03:08pm PT

"The collapse of this sector of West Antarctica appears to be unstoppable," he said. "The fact that the retreat is happening simultaneously over a large sector suggests it was triggered by a common cause, such as an increase in the amount of ocean heat beneath the floating sections of the glaciers. At this point, the end of this sector appears to be inevitable."

Are these glaciers saltwater or freshwater?
If their freshwater, maybe we could tug'em up to Cali and offload'em in Stockton so they could water the San Joaquin? Since their gonna die anyway..
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 14, 2014 - 03:25pm PT
Are these glaciers saltwater or freshwater?

Fresh. It's an idea that has been thought up many times. For a snapshot of its history, check out this 2011 article from Atlantic on "The Many Failures and Few Successes of Zany Iceberg Towing Schemes." A few excerpts:
Mid 1800s: According to the Encyclopedia of Antartica, small icebergs were towed from southern Chile up to Valparaiso as part of the brewery supply chain. A Chilean researcher said, "The icebergs were towed by ships of the conventional type. Sometimes the icebergs were supplied with sails to utilize the prevailing winds. The ice was used for refrigerating purposes in the breweries and was generally substituted for artificial ice." Apparently, the business continued until about the turn of the century.
March 9, 1914: A short notice in The Washington Times describes a new iceberg towing operation being advertised in area papers. "The Northern Berg Ice Company is planning to tow icebergs into Boston, New York, Baltimore, and Philadelphia, exhibit them excursion steamers, and then dynamite the bergs into small pieces for market. No names of interested capitalists have as yet been made public, and the advertisements came as a surprise to ice dealers, who say the scheme is not practical."
October 1973: The RAND Corporation dives 96 pages deep on "Antarctic Icebergs as a Global Fresh Water Source" for the National Science Foundation. By far the most comprehensive scheme to date, J.L. Hult and N.C. Ostrander went far beyond previous speculations to create an actual paper model of how an "iceberg train" could work. This is classic RAND work with lots of math and appendices. It made them a national media story. "Bringing icebergs to where the water is needed was suggested by John Isaacs of Scripps Institute of Oceanography in the 1950s," Hult told the AP. "It is our job to show how practical it is." Their scheme was inspired more by theoretical least-cost equations more than common sense. For example, they suggested sending a floating nuclear power plant to provide power for the operation.
Present: Iceberg towing is now commonplace in the Arctic near oil rigs. There are fairly standard procedures for dealing with all sizes of bergs and some upwards of 4 million tonnes have been towed successfully, according to a Canadian government report.

The crazy scheme side of the iceberg towing industry continues apace. And the breathless media reporting on such things continues as well. This is one of these ideas that no matter how many times you repeat it remains some wild guy's wacky idea. Here's Wired UK on the latest iceberg towing suggestion by Frenchman Georges Mougin, who worked with Prince Faisal way back when.

"French engineer Georges Mougin has a big idea. He wants to go to Antarctica, tie a big rope around a six-million-ton iceberg, drag it back to Africa and melt it into fresh, drinkable water. Some might call him crazy, but Mougin reckons the plan could work."

Indeed he does, like so many before him.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 14, 2014 - 03:46pm PT
Wow Chiloe I never would'a thunk!

How about,

Iceberg Beer! Made with billion yr old water. If it didn't taste good, atleast the critics could say,"it tastes like billion yro horse piss!"
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 14, 2014 - 03:50pm PT
I've never tried iceberg beer but have cooled drinks with glacier ice chunks. They made snapping sounds as air bubbles embedded in the ice for ages were liberated to rejoin the atmosphere. A cool thought, it seemed at the time.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
May 14, 2014 - 03:58pm PT
^^^ Interesting.

I wonder if they could catch that air and take a co2 measurement and compare it with today's air? Maybe we could bottle the air for future sales?

Humm. Nature releasing fresh water and fresh air back into its environment.
Almost sounds like a plan?
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 14, 2014 - 04:09pm PT
I wonder if they could catch that air and take a co2 measurement and compare it with today's air?

That's pretty much how we know so much about atmospheric CO2 over the past 800,000 years or so, as in graphs like this. (I might mention that CO2 actually is higher now, above 400ppm, than it was when this graph was drawn a few years ago.)

matisse

climber
May 14, 2014 - 04:13pm PT
get your iceberg beer here:
http://www.quidividibrewery.ca/
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