Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 27, 2014 - 10:14am PT
apologize, Rick

for being a liar
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 27, 2014 - 10:41am PT
Oops Sketchy.

You left out the part of the quote where I asked "what have you done?" Chef has trained you well.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Feb 27, 2014 - 10:42am PT
Yeah, and some fishing gear. With some luck maybe The Chief will bring you to one his better fishing holes while you talk of the weather as snow piles onto the Sierra.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Feb 27, 2014 - 10:45am PT
Guys I have like at least a thousand papers in my office and only three mention global warming so it clearly isn't real.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Feb 27, 2014 - 10:47am PT
What y'all doing?

Personally, I rent a place adjacent to my workplace so I can walk or bike rather than commute. Installed a programmable thermostat when I moved in, use 17w worth of light at night, shutdown computer when not in use and other minor items. The living next to work bit is the biggest impact by orders of magnitude.

Professionally, I work in the environmental field as a career. I have my facility well ahead of schedule to reduce square footage by 20% in 6 years and energy usage in the remaining buildings by 20% within 5 years. We are accomplishing this in the face of radical budget cuts and constraints. We've cut company vehicles by 30% and replaced with eletric golf carts for on campus usage, some of them solar powered. We've installed solar panel covered parking lots and solar exterior lighting. We've introduced a ride share program utilized by hundreds of employees, cutting commuter vehicle trips approximately in half.

We're WAY ahead of target on reducing water usage, down approx 50% from our baseline from 2008. All new landscaping is xeriscape requiring no irrigation once established. We install waterless urinals in every building remodel.

Those are a few, but I need to get to work so I'll leave it there.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Feb 27, 2014 - 10:56am PT
That's pretty cool El Cap.

DMT
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 27, 2014 - 10:57am PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
nice post for a proud liberal science guy.
raymond phule

climber
Feb 27, 2014 - 10:57am PT

Why wade? Well it validates parts of my recent points 1 and 2 and like I said it is right up Base's alley. Also he asked for non AGW papers to read, of which there are thousands.

An answer to my post? If that's the case. How does that article validate anything you have written? I neither understand why that paper should be consider a non AGW paper. I am not sure if it explicitly state it but I don't think that the paper goes against the standard AGW theory in any way.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 27, 2014 - 11:08am PT
Sketch, I just re-read your post from earlier today and I find it genuine. As a singular post, I think the message is a good one--you ask in earnest what folks have done to raise awareness of the AWG issue.

I still support this as a positive focus and I believe that given the chance, the message could lead to a good discussion.

While Bruce is right, the propaganda is a real force that is difficult to overcome, the real truth is that if you want change, individuals must band together and demand the change.


Peace out.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 27, 2014 - 11:13am PT
Hey hows the weather down in the valley these days? I think I'm finally heading that way. Should i bring ski touring gack?


If you want to ski in the Valley, bring your rock skis.

Last weekend, you had to carry your skis in places if you wanted to X-counrty out GPR. Maybe this storm will change that. Other than that, I suggest climbing in the Valley wearing a tee.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 27, 2014 - 11:22am PT
Our programmable thermostats were a key addition for reducing our energy consumption.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 27, 2014 - 11:30am PT
You're crowing about an app you started a few months ago... and you think that raises awareness about global warming? Really?

By your metric, I've saved (at least) 1000 gallons over the last two years. So, I've reduced carbon emissions by about 10 tons. Yea me!!! Cock-a-doodle-do!!!Like Bruce and many others, you seem to only want a confrontational exchange

You seem to want only passive-agressive exchange.

Not my metric, Those are personal metrics from a company wide program with thousands of participants, a fraction of the outreach, advocacy and education Implemented by one of the most environmentally progressive companies on the planet.

You asked a question in a post which I interpreted, and Kman acknowledged, as an attempt to elevate the conversation above 'childish squabbling. I replied with an example of some of things I'm doing to raise awareness and make a small difference, I said 'there's more' precisely to avoid the appearance of 'crowing.' You replied with your usual snide one-liner.

Clearly, I misinterpreted the nature of your post. or you the nature of my answer.

It is what it is

Cock-a-doodle-do!!!

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Feb 27, 2014 - 11:35am PT
Phule, isn't volcanic activity a major, if somewhat erratic, player in climate change and do the GCM's incluse their effects?

From the abstract- "In contrast to recent claims, trends in the airborne fraction of anthropogenic carbon cannot be detected when accounting for the decadal-scale influence of explosive volcanism and related uncertainties. Our results highlight the importance of considering the role of natural variability in the carbon cycle for interpretation of observations and for data- modelintercomparison".

page 2 introduction- " A quantitative attribution analysis of airborne fraction trends to different mechanisms, however, is missing in the peer-reviewed literature".

page 4 Results- " standard runs yields a decrease in global mean temperature and atmospheric CO2....whereas the global mean CO2 decrease at the peak underestimates the observation-based estimate by 19%".

page 5 Results " The ocean initially absorbs carbon mainly in response to cooling, but turns into a source after a couple of years in response to lowered atmospheric CO2.... Thus the ocean compensates somewhat the long-term decrease in atmospheric CO2 due to land carbon inventory increases".

page 9-10 Conclusions-"Furthermore, we show that the omission of volcanoes is sufficient to explain the trend in the airborne fraction".

Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 27, 2014 - 11:46am PT
By your metric, I've saved (at least) 1000 gallons over the last two years. So, I've reduced carbon emissions by about 10 tons. Yea me!!! Cock-a-doodle-do!!!

By my metric you'd know exactly how much gas, cash and Co2 you'd saved, Not 'at least' or 'about' how much. You'd also have to own the same car I do and do a thirty mile bike/transit commute. If you've been doing that for two years you really are making a difference...and that's something to crow about.

Cock-a-doodle-do!!!
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Feb 27, 2014 - 11:47am PT
I'm not doing jack sh#t to raise awareness.

What are you doing sketch?

DMT
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Feb 27, 2014 - 12:00pm PT
The problem Bruce is over consumption which has been promoted as symbol of status for decades. While the attitude is stubbornly ingrained, the solution to your "perceived climate doom" is well underway here in North America. We've increased efficiency in our power generation, vehicles, housing and office space, etc. extensively over the last few decades. NG is supplanting coal for power generation and if the attitude's of radical environmental lobby will allow increased nuclear and well designed hydro then our emissions will be well below the targets. Already N.A. leads the world in meaningful reductions, down to 1990 levels by some accounts.

AS far as misrepresenting comprehension-untrue, any body can understand the science enough with a determined effort to make their own judgement.
raymond phule

climber
Feb 27, 2014 - 12:04pm PT

From the abstract- "In contrast to recent claims, trends in the airborne fraction of anthropogenic carbon cannot be detected when accounting for the decadal-scale influence of explosive volcanism and related uncertainties. Our results highlight the importance of considering the role of natural variability in the carbon cycle for interpretation of observations and for data- modelintercomparison".

Yes, and how is this in agreement with anything you have claimed? Do you even understand what "airborne fraction of anthropogenic carbon" means?


page 2 introduction- " A quantitative attribution analysis of airborne fraction trends to different mechanisms, however, is missing in the peer-reviewed literature".

And why do you think that is important? They do research that no one has done before using methods that you usually despise. Smoothing, curve fitting or what you call it.



page 4 Results- " standard runs yields a decrease in global mean temperature and atmospheric CO2....whereas the global mean CO2 decrease at the peak underestimates the observation-based estimate by 19%".

And this quote is important because?


page 5 Results " The ocean initially absorbs carbon mainly in response to cooling, but turns into a source after a couple of years in response to lowered atmospheric CO2.... Thus the ocean compensates somewhat the long-term decrease in atmospheric CO2 due to land carbon inventory increases".

and this proves the conspiracy, scam that you believe in in what way?


page 9-10 Conclusions-"Furthermore, we show that the omission of volcanoes is sufficient to explain the trend in the airborne fraction".

An interesting result that is fully in line with standard AGW theory. Why do you quote it?

Do you realize that the paper and your quotes are in a almost complete disagreement with the "results" in the Segalstad paper that you liked yesterday?

Why don't you give a link to the blog that said that you would like that paper? The only blog source I found actually say why the blog post made an incorrect interpretation in the comments section.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 27, 2014 - 12:14pm PT
That's exactly how I misinterpreted it. I have been accused of being too quick to my guns.
If that's the case I apologize.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Feb 27, 2014 - 12:35pm PT
I used Segalstad for pointing out political motivation purposes mainly. Froelicher is used to point out errors in modeling and no it isn't consistent with CAGW by a long shot. Your twisting interpretation and mincing words Phule. And yes I can see partial validation of my points in all referenced papers. Climate science has a long, long way to go, and only through much more consideration and quantification of natural climate change processes can it ever hope to achieve any accuracy in prediction.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 27, 2014 - 12:45pm PT
Phule, isn't volcanic activity a major, if somewhat erratic, player in climate change and do the GCM's incluse their effects?

Awesome... the deniers are now posting MODELING papers... thinking they have thrown a serious wrench into the AGW argument... not realizing the serious limitations of that particular model!

But look, they have a graph I don't understand... so they must be onto something. FYI, the colored points are the observations and the gray points are the model runs. Tell me how well the model fits... I need a good laugh!!!

Frölicher et al, 2013
Frölicher et al, 2013
Credit: mechrist

I'm not dissing the paper. It is fairly informative and a very difficult problem to address. I'm laughing my ass off that the deniers main argument against AGW usually centers around far more conclusive modeling studies. Fuking clueless bunch!!!

The atmospheric effects of major volcanoes MIGHT last a decade... and results in COOLING. So, wtf does that have to do with the observed warming trend?
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