Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Oct 3, 2013 - 02:17am PT
Judith Curry is a bit of a gold mine it seems. She clearly is a political animal and holds a bit of an aversion to "bureaucracy", which no doubt accounts for her distaste of the IPCC as the clearing house of climate science. Here is another choice post from her blog from 2011, mostly in the words of others but based on her comments, echoing JC's sentiments.

http://judithcurry.com/2013/08/11/climate-science-sociology/

To do with the rationalization and general conflict of interest of politics and science. A selected quote:

Weber illustrates and applies sociology as he originally conceived it – understanding society and social relations, in this case, the world of vocational science.

It is but a tiny fragment of his enormous intellectual output across several disciplines, but provides some insight into a great thinker’s sociological perspectives on some of the issues that are as relevant to climate science in 2013 as they were to science as a whole in 1918.

These include: the bureaucratisation of universities and scientific institutions and its consequences; the implications of increasing specialisation in science and the role of generalist disciplines; the requirement of scientists to expect that their work will become obsolete; the separate roles of the professional and the advocate (although they may be the same person); and the oxymoronic nature of scientific advocacy for personal opinions based on values.


a few things are of interest here. One is the last line "the oxymoronic nature of scientific advocacy for personal opinions based on values." Of particular interest is the fact that this line describes this thread - particularly in regard to the deniers who are on record that their interest here is one of Principle not science, yet blather incessently about science and studiously avoid discussion of their hallowed principles.

I'm not saying we are immune, just less prone- by an order of magnitude.

All except Ed. If there is one individual who has refrained from "the oxymoronic nature of scientific advocacy for personal opinions based on values" it is Ed Hartouni who has patiently and persistently focused on talking and practicing science and advocated for the same. Whenever he strayed into sin it was only under the unrelenting onslaught of the oxy morons who would have none of anything but an obtuse projection of their values under guise of science.

The other interesting thing is again how the content of the text seems to be alluding to this sinful behavior being conducted in the institutional halls of "bureaucratic" science resulting in the dreaded consensus. Apparently the same sin potential of the substantially more sin prone parallel universe of authority - Religion, Roy Spencer and the Corn pounder Alliance - is not nearly as
obvious.

Quibbles aside, all this stuff is good and it is commendable that JC examines it. Whatever her motives it is fully relevant stuff and her charges should be confronted and accepted or repelled on merit. The comments following this particular post - although mostly partisanly skewed in favor -make a half assed attempt at that.

The comments following her other blog posts such as the christian evangelical one are all absolutely pure partisan crap, all fully embracing an "oxymoronic nature of scientific advocacy for personal opinions based on values" or just crass straight values only. obviously a non science crowd to say the least.

So you gotta wonder.... If JC, seemingly reasonable and balanced... even open minded possibly....has a problem with Oxy-morons, why does she wallow in them? You'd think after years of blogging to the precise blathering idiots she claims to abhore that she would somehow find another crowd to hang with. What exactly is going on with this woman? What is her gig?
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 3, 2013 - 09:29am PT
And what about you Brewsky?? You certainly come on here regularly and speak nothing BUT about the science of Climate Change. Right????


Of course..... Niiiiice!


So you gotta wonder.... If JC, seemingly reasonable and balanced.

No wonder atal. She in fact was originally with "YOUR" Pro AGW CONSENSUS crowd Brewsky. Amazingly, she saw the light and realized how much of a joke of hypocrisy the entire process was all about.

You and the others here just can not stand the fact that there are more and more of your CONSENSUS people jumping the sinking ship due realizing the fallacy of it all.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 3, 2013 - 09:39am PT
Early? You are way behind the ball Boy. Just got back from my morning mtn bike ride behind the house.

Hammil Valley huh... right. If you truly live in "Hammil Valley", how many cirrus/contrail clouds are there over Paiute Pk at this very moment??? Cus you can see Pauite from Hamil Valley.


And Quentin, aren't you due for your ultimate self inflicted demise here soon? You have been spending far too much time living in the past, boy.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 3, 2013 - 09:58am PT
So how about them Cirrus's?? That is what I thought. Another Internet Avatar bullshetting got no balls troll.

IGNORE>


Boy!


HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 3, 2013 - 10:06am PT
I'm not at home ....

Nor have you ever been. Hammil Valley that is. Fact.


Gotta love you internet hide behind an avatar clown boys. Gotta love em.



HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


motorcycle

Ah, which one, clown boy?

See ya. Off on one of them "motorcyles".
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 3, 2013 - 10:35am PT
It's pretty clear, now that the IPCC has released AR5, the deniers don't have anything left in their 'war chest' to slam AWG, so they BS about anything else that comes to their mind. And here you can see that mostly what they think of is name calling.

How impressive...
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HRKRNH
Oct 3, 2013 - 10:37am PT
Now THAT is hillarious Kman.. Im guessing you cant read at all eh? Theres like six of you doing NOTHING but insulting here.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Oct 3, 2013 - 10:45am PT
I predict another herd culling by year's end... a couple of repeat offenders are going the way of the roxybird, for sure.

DMT
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Oct 3, 2013 - 10:53am PT
Chef, how do you know Quentin doesn't live there? do you have a crystal ball or super duper IP reading skills from your office there next to the barber shop?
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 3, 2013 - 11:24am PT
Prove you're not any of these things.

Well, ask Dingus. He knows me. Probably better than I assume he does. He and I have a dear friend we both admire deaply and climbed/FA'd with.

Facto.


Besides, credibility on the internet is like running out onto the finish line at the Indy 500 on lap 75 holding a stop sign believing anyone will actually see you let alone actually stop.



RON!!!

Good post.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Oct 3, 2013 - 11:26am PT
For some reason I've got a free subscription to Physics Today, which today brings a new article by three leading Arctic researchers (Jeffries, Overland, Perovich). Their lifelong involvement in Arctic research gives a perspective on how Arctic science, along with the Arctic itself, has been changing. The writing, aimed at science-literate but unspecialized readers, is quite readable.

The Arctic shifts to a new normal

On 5 September 1980, when the Arctic sea-ice cover reached its minimum extent for the year, it blanketed much of the Arctic Ocean and choked the inter-island channels of Canada’s Arctic Archipelago. Not only did ice extend over 7.5 million square kilometers, almost equal in area to the contiguous 48 US states, but it was an old, and thus thick, ice cover: 62% was multiyear sea ice—that which survives one or more summer melt seasons—and 38% was first-year sea ice. The age and thickness of the ice made it resilient to atmospheric and oceanic forcing, such as solar radiation, storms, and air and water temperatures. Consequently, the seasonal cycle of winter advance and summer retreat was thought to be in a near steady state.

The extensive, thick ice cover that persisted through the end of the summer was considered normal at the time and for many years afterwards. It was expected of a region generally perceived to be cold, hostile, and isolated from the rest of the world, a zone of Cold War confrontation yet of little immediate consequence to most people. Northern residents would rightly have disagreed with that characterization, and multinational corporations were finding and profitably exploiting large energy and mineral reserves. The Prudhoe Bay oil field in northernmost Alaska had been producing for three years—and continues to do so—and the Polaris mine on Little Cornwallis Island in the Canadian Arctic Archipelago was to begin 22 years of lead and zinc production in 1981. And scientists continued to visit, almost exclusively in the summer—rather like migratory birds—to conduct fieldwork.

In October 1980 Syukuro Manabe and Ronald Stouffer (both then working at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory) reported the results of a numerical experiment on the sensitivity of global climate to a quadrupling of atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration.1 The consequences for the Arctic were profound. Their model projected an asymmetric seasonal surface air-temperature response—greater winter warming than summer warming in the Arctic itself, and greater winter and annual warming in the Arctic than at lower latitudes. It also projected a large decline in sea-ice extent and thickness.

Whereas Manabe and Stouffer’s simulation quadrupled the atmospheric CO2 concentrations in its artificial world, the actual increase to date has been much lower. At Barrow in northernmost Alaska, for example, the mean CO2 concentration of 385 ppm in September 2012 was only 15% higher than the 331 ppm of September 1980. And yet profound changes in surface air temperature, sea ice, and numerous other environmental conditions have occurred in the Arctic....
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Oct 3, 2013 - 11:28am PT
The chief don't feed the trolls. There's no need to be insecure about your climbing.

DMT
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 3, 2013 - 11:31am PT
The Arctic shifts to a new normal

Another clear idiotic assumption by White Coats... "Normal".

By definition alone, there is no such thing as "Normal" in CLIMATE.

Climate is the pattern of variation...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate


Also, Ice Ages come and go Larry. Regardless how much you and the others here ponder on the issue of Sea Ice extent etc. It comes and goes on planet earth. Has done so for millions of years.


The chief don't feed the trolls.

Yur right.... my bad.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 3, 2013 - 12:25pm PT
Where did it go the hundreds of other times this situ has occurred here on planet earth the past, oh 750 million years?

Many if not most of those occurrences were tenfold worse than anything we are or will experience in the next 2-5 hundred years.

Stop acting like this is the FIRST time this has EVER happened. Cus that aint science.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Oct 3, 2013 - 12:31pm PT
Another clear idiotic assumption by White Coats... "Normal".

I'm guessing Chief's fixation about "White Coats" comes from some unhappy experiences in his past.

I've never seen Jeffries, Overland or Perovich in a white coat; like most climate scientists they probably don't own one.

Martin Jeffries, Geophysical Institute at the University of Alaska




Don Perovich, Research Geophysicist at the Army's Cold Regions Research and Engineering Laboratory:

The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 3, 2013 - 12:40pm PT
Nor will it ever be, CLOSED. It happens and will continue to do so long after all of you are gone and dead.

The term "White Coats" I borrowed from Werner who obviously has far more insight into all this "fixation" with MMGW/GCC etc than any of you PhD's ever will.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 3, 2013 - 12:55pm PT
^^^^^^^^Scientifically illiterate but opens his yapper anyway.^^^^
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 3, 2013 - 01:06pm PT
^^^^^^^^Scientifically illiterate but opens his yapper anyway.^^^^

This coming from an individual that publicly announces that her "orifices" are OPEN.

Niice!
raymond phule

climber
Oct 3, 2013 - 01:10pm PT

Where did it go the hundreds of other times this situ has occurred here on planet earth the past, oh 750 million years?

Many if not most of those occurrences were tenfold worse than anything we are or will experience in the next 2-5 hundred years.

Stop acting like this is the FIRST time this has EVER happened. Cus that aint science.

How do you know this? Remember that you cant use what any scientist says because they are always wrong as you claim over and over again. Did you read it in the bible? Did a pixie tell you when you slept? Do you just know everything?
dirtbag

climber
Oct 3, 2013 - 01:12pm PT
Um...so chief?
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