Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Feb 9, 2014 - 02:26pm PT
I agree Fort,that would be very telling....
TLP

climber
Feb 9, 2014 - 02:42pm PT
Looks like the rain is keeping a lot of us indoors. I think it's a good thing to be pragmatic. Rick is right, it's just not feasible, whether technologically or politically or socially doesn't matter; it's just not feasible for the entire world to switch off of fossil fuel based energy and transportation systems quickly, though I think it is useful to start doing so for many reasons in addition to reducing GHG emissions. Coal is extremely damaging for many reasons and should be compelled to pay its way fully in terms of air pollution, reclamation, and waste disposal (permanent stabilization and reclamation to high-productivity land). If all these environmental costs were actually built in, it would be phased out as a major energy source without even any climate consideration like a carbon tax. Should be done, like tomorrow. But China is still building a huge coal power plant every few weeks, so we aren't going to see their emissions curve flatten out any time soon. We are just plain stuck with the climate change that is coming.

I do think the adverse consequences of climate change are going to be really big both in terms of bad weather events (excess or deficit of precipitation, storms) and long term trends (such as decreased water supply in California and Nevada). It is completely infeasible to build enough gigantic dams to substitute for the Sierra snow storage. Just plain impossible. Dickering about the details of climate science is doing nobody any good in planning and preparing for this guaranteed future condition. It is absolutely true that there have big monumental droughts in the western U.S. in the past few thousand years, but that should be all the more reason to get on board with accepting the reality of climate change, trying not to make it worse, and starting to deal with it. Same deal for Asia: they're definitely going to have an increase in years of poor rice production and should have a plan in place.

There is abundant archeological evidence from the distant and recent past that adverse climate events have in fact resulted in conflicts and big dislocations of populations. This is not fantasy or alarmism: it is observed fact, and was documented decades ago before there was any talk of global climate change. If we do not have a good response to climate change already in place, it is logical to expect this will happen in the 21st century too. Actually, it already has: Syria, where the civil war was sparked off (in a lot of bad political kindling) by p*ss-poor government response to a couple of years of drought.

These are the realities of the Earth and its inhabitants, and it would be wise to start dealing with them objectively. Wasting money and talk criticizing the science makes no sense at all.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Feb 9, 2014 - 03:17pm PT
The expectation for regional climate in my area resembles snow and lots of it.http://www.wunderground.com/blog/weatherhistorian/lake-effect-snow-totals-and-historical-perspective

I have talked to many an older resident,they concur.

Did you know New York has the most ski areas of any state.

As mono mentioned earlier about your drought,NY does not suffer from a drought,but our snowpack is suffering.

I ski here,when it opens which has not been a lot lately.
http://poststar.com/news/local/hickory-celebrates-first-skiing-in-two-seasons/article_73d2d982-7800-11e3-92a6-001a4bcf887a.html

I ski mostly BC,which has been poor .But we have received some of late.

wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Feb 9, 2014 - 03:37pm PT
You are dialing in on it.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Feb 9, 2014 - 03:53pm PT
I just hope it does not ring true.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Feb 9, 2014 - 04:15pm PT
Do not worry ,Vermont will not let him in.

And,....NO.
TLP

climber
Feb 9, 2014 - 04:36pm PT
What I want to know is, will that mean a reduction in the annual black fly plague in the Dacks?

Picking up on Ron's post about NZ's new coal port, just because China won't be reducing the rate of increase in their emissions any time soon doesn't mean some kind of emissions reduction here and in Europe should not happen at all. Even a token effort that says "we are going to start regardless" has a future value in tackling the biggest problem of all, namely lack of global political will. But until it is followed by modification of global trade practice to greatly reduce trade with countries that are not effectively reducing their emissions also, there's just not going to be a beneficial effect in terms of CO2 and climate. This is not wise, but it is reality.

If it's not a good idea to flood an unlimited amount of money (directly or in terms of costlier or lost output) into emissions reductions, say that and explain why, don't waste the effort in futile attempts to discredit the science, which is pretty darn solid by now. I think there's a good case for moderation in emissions-reduction efforts, but the opinions about it from those who start out by saying the science is totally hooey are not going to get much respect in the debate about what do we do. OK, rant over.
TLP

climber
Feb 9, 2014 - 04:52pm PT
FortMental asked about long term temperature data. If you put a little internet time in, you can get all of this stuff. Start here: http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/customer-support/partnerships/regional-climate-centers

I couldn't readily navigate to the desired data via the Midwestern center, the way that I can for others of them that I have used. But the data is somewhere in www.ncdc.noaa.gov if you work at getting it a bit. You have to pick a city and station, but among the places you can surf to are station lists which give you the period of record and so on. The amount of data is huge, so you have to work a bit to get the ore that you want.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Feb 9, 2014 - 05:28pm PT
TLP,Thanks for the link,I have read there before ,but it was good to revisit.

About the blackflies,it is good they are only around in the spring.

One side note,NY's water quality has improved in the last 30 years.

We now have the bastards here in the Finger Lakes,they were never here in my past.

For 2-3 weeks in the spring,you cannot even leave the dogs out for more than 5 minutes.Its not just that they get eaten alive,but ,if you leave them out long ,they bring hundreds of the little leaches back in the house ,embedded in their coats.
yosemite 5.9

climber
santa cruz
Feb 9, 2014 - 05:48pm PT
Here's an article about the decrease in global warming. Finally some recognition about the effect of solar energy and its recent decrease.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-09/global-warming-slowdown-due-to-pacific-winds-study-shows.html
TLP

climber
Feb 9, 2014 - 05:57pm PT
Thread drift to black flies. Bummer about the improvement in stream water quality restoring habitat for the little bastards. Something must eat them, like little birds maybe. Aquatic dragon fly nymphs?

Many years ago I was visiting NY in early spring and we took a weekend climbing trip to Pok-O. Saturday, there were just a very few flies, one here, another there. Saturday night black fly season arrived, and it was like deer or game bird season opening: Sunday was absolute hell from the suckers, and they all had tags and licenses for our blood. Damn. And DEET doesn't do a thing to keep them off.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Feb 9, 2014 - 06:11pm PT
More than once kayaking or canoeing, I have paddled my ass off to outrun clouds of them.

And trout fishing in the spring is dangerous!

So what,this thread NEEDS drifts.
TLP

climber
Feb 9, 2014 - 08:20pm PT
New York has the most ski areas of any state.

Presumably this is indeed true, though surprising, and only for developed ones with lifts. I am sure that some STers who reside in other northern states would disagree and say that a "ski area" is anywhere with snow where you can plop down your tele or AT skis and go. :)
AndyMan

Sport climber
CA
Feb 9, 2014 - 10:48pm PT
Any idiots still believe in the nonsense about man's CO2 causing catastrophic global warming?

In case you've had your heads up your bums and missed it:
 No warming for almost 2 decades
 50% increase in Arctic sea ice
 Antarctic sea ice at record highs
 Cyclones at 30 year low
 no increase in the rate of sea level rise.
 still no tropical troposphere "fingerprint" hot spot

Most importantly, still not a shred of evidence of any kind to support the ridiculous CO2 theory, despite man having pumped out 1/3 of all his CO2 in the last 17 years.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 9, 2014 - 10:52pm PT

20,000 posts on this thread

get busy reading and answer your own questions
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Feb 9, 2014 - 11:06pm PT
Ummm, Frank Church
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 10, 2014 - 01:48am PT
No warming for almost 2 decades

Andy, quit talking about your bedroom life; we're not interested.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Feb 10, 2014 - 07:44am PT
I was only mentioning how many ski areas NY currently has to remind that ,It is a huge industry up here.

That industry has been ill in recent years,and it is good to see an "old " type winter here.

At one point in the 60's,NY had 300+ ski areas.We are down to around 50 now.

This does not include x country areas/parks.

As I have said ,I mostly ski BC.There is an endless amount of terrain,3 good sized mountain ranges,and a ton of abandoned ski areas.

I stagger to think of what it would be like if NY never gave away the county of Vermont.

CC and it's affects,concern more than just a few here.

Now ,if we only had more accessible Granite .
3000 ft vert in ny
3000 ft vert in ny
Credit: wilbeer

wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Feb 10, 2014 - 10:12am PT
Whiteface would scare the living sh#t out of you,chef.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Feb 10, 2014 - 10:38am PT
I never said it was better skiing over here.
I have skied quite a bit out west,but I doubt if there are more skiers there, per capita.
But I would be expecting you to understand averages.
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