Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Sep 14, 2013 - 01:09pm PT
Here is another wonderful resource everyone should appreciate. It is an interactive global map identifying areas of the entire globe that reconstructed climatic studies have been performed that confirm that the MWP and LIA were pronounced and global in extent. Simply click on the various locations and the peer reviewed study, or link to it, appears. So simple even a physicist could do it.

http://pages.science-skeptical.de/MWP/MedievalWarmPeriod1024x768.html
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 14, 2013 - 01:12pm PT
thats fascinating Rick. So what do you think of Roy Spensers obvious conflict of interest and breach of professional ethics?


Do you think the Cornhole Alliance can accurately be characteried as village idiots?



Here is another wonderful resource everyone should appreciate:


k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 14, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
There will be SUPER FIRES~~~ Hardly comparable to fires BEFORE the industrial revolution...

Ron, that reminds me, you never answered my question about the Rim Fire.

How big do you think it would be if we used pre-industrial techniques to fight it? Think it would classify as one of your "super fires?"


Waiting for an answer....
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Sep 14, 2013 - 01:20pm PT
The Siege of 87, CALs greatest fire event used all the modern bells and whistles. Nearly a million acres of flame then. Does that answer your question?
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 14, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
Here is another wonderful resource everyone should appreciate. ...

Rick, on one hand you say the scientists know nothing. On the other, you implore us to look at what a select group of scientists have put together.

So, do you believe the scientists, or don't you?

If you do, then how about this fact: 95% of the world's climate scientists are in agreement about AWG.


The other 5%? We've determined that most are on the budget of those who own coal mines.

Keep denying, there's plenty of sand to go around.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 14, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
The Siege of 87, CALs greatest fire event used all the modern bells and whistles.

Odd, I didn't realize they had DC-10s equiped to drop tons of fire retardant on the hot spots back then.

Care to restate that Ron?


PS. 1987 isn't what I'd call per-inststrial. What are you trying to say Ron?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Sep 14, 2013 - 01:26pm PT
They had C-130s, DC 4s, BPYs, Mitchell b-24s, Cessna Agwagons, and many many more aircraft.. But then,, i was there. If you think the dc10 has revolutionized fire, you need to think again.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Sep 14, 2013 - 01:27pm PT
Bruce to tell you the truth, I find atheists to be shallow, scared, hateful little people. Though I have no religious inclinations myself, I prefer to hire, climb, and otherwise interact with those that identify themselves as religious, or at least deferential to a higher and unknown power than the false religion of CAGW and other over hyped sciences designed for the purpose of social engineering. I have no problem, nor should any independent thinking person, with the good scientific works of the people you mention. Their science is separate, and is independent, of their modest religious beliefs.

You speak heresy K-man. Try to remember your blogger/social scientist in chief Mr. Cook et al has officially identified 97.1% of 64 scientists, out of 12,000, as the consensus ratio. Well anyway, 64 minus the five I posted as objecting to be falsely classified.

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 14, 2013 - 01:32pm PT
You measly human White Coats just haven't a clue.... not one.

Sorry The Chief, but this sounds like another of your "arrogant ego trip soap boxes."

Isn't it past your bed time?
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 14, 2013 - 01:42pm PT
There will be SUPER FIRES~~~ Hardly comparable to fires BEFORE the industrial revolution...

Then ...


They had C-130s, DC 4s, BPYs, Mitchell b-24s, Cessna Agwagons, and many many more aircraft.. But then,, i was there. If you think the dc10 has revolutionized fire, you need to think again.


Ron, you were arguing that the fires before the industrial age were the biggest on record. My point was that we've figured out ways to fight fires that contains them quicker, meaning that the fires, because of our techniques, won't be as big.

With this, I asked how big you think the Rim Fire would have been without modern fire-fighting techniques.


Focus boy, focus.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 14, 2013 - 01:48pm PT
Their science is separate, and is independent, of their modest religious beliefs.



Thank you for that revealing little tidbit. Now as to the above, how can you say that this is true if they sign a declaration of allegiance that denies the scientific process? I have no problem with "modest religious beliefs", but these people do not hold modest religious beliefs, certainly in the context of science. The Cornhole statement is a conflict of interest for a scientist.

Considering your qualifying statement of personal preferences, I can't help thinking that you are prejudiced in favor of the religious understanding of nature and you chose to ignore this obvious conflict of interest in favor of a tribal allegiance with your tribe.

BTW. in regard to the constant assertion that AGW science and other sciences are some sort of religion, here is a generally accepted definition of religion:

Religion
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to the supernatural, and to spirituality.[note 1] Many religions have narratives, symbols, and sacred histories that are intended to explain the meaning of life and/or to explain the origin of life or the Universe. From their beliefs about the cosmos and human nature, people derive morality, ethics, religious laws or a preferred lifestyle.

I can see what you are getting at here but I think there are some critical large distinctions. For instance how we establish morals, ethics, laws and prefered life style is INFORMED by science, but is not directly derived by a enshrined unalterable dogma such as with religion. As well, science has nothing to do with spirituality and the supernatural.

Note also that science is not mentioned as having a role by the religious in informing the establishment of laws, ethics, morals, and prefered life style.

So where do you get this science is religion stuff?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Sep 14, 2013 - 01:52pm PT
Kman i already demonstrated that fires get big regardless of fire fighting equipment available. What is key is FUELS. That are now at historically HIGH levels. The jackwagon politickshuns will yammer about GW concerning these fires to confuse, and deflect from the real reasons we have bad fires, and that is the fact that they do not budget our land mangers so they CAN take care of the problems we face now.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 14, 2013 - 01:59pm PT
The jackwagon politickshuns will yammer about GW concerning these fires ...

No Ron, it's not the jackwagon politicshuns who yammer about AWG. It's the climate scientists who are voicing grave concerns.


Focus boy, focus.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Sep 14, 2013 - 02:14pm PT
Kman, i more than proved, with a silly lil experiment (psyche 101), the trend of pre-disposed thought patterns of CC types right here in this thread.

One tiny mention that CC may be responsible for America getting phatter was met with an instant,,"there might be something to that"...

They look on everything as an ingredient of climate change.. EVEN the 2000 yr old Jihads are now blamed on global warming.. How much more pathetic will these attempt's to stir support get?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Sep 14, 2013 - 02:20pm PT
Well Bruce, after nearly 60 years on this planet I am still amazed as to the wonder and improbability of it all. Im leaning towards this life, this universe as having a degree of intention behind it rather than a cosmic accident. Once again, I see no problems with Spencer et al, certainly less conflict of interest than those preaching from the church of CAGW as to the preordained evils of man and the properties of the mythic idol CO2.

Yes-none
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 14, 2013 - 02:24pm PT
You are avoiding the question. We are not talking about enviro nazis, we are talking about RS and the Cornhole Alliance. Can you state emphatically that no conflict exists between science and the CA declaration that Roy S signed?
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Sep 14, 2013 - 02:31pm PT
I find atheists to be shallow, scared, hateful little people.


they all stereotype and pass judgment on everyone who doesn't believe as they do...oh...wait...
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Sep 14, 2013 - 02:34pm PT
The jackwagon politickshuns will yammer about GW concerning these fires ...


even i don't blame George W for the fires...but he should have a spark arrestor on that thing...

Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 14, 2013 - 03:20pm PT
Ok Rick , maybe you're off fixing deficiencies or something. Perhaps unlike the intellectual stunted you will be so kind as to address my question in as direct and explanatory a manner as you can muster when you return. You would think that an enquiring mind such as yours would not be prone to avoiding difficult questions, like some. I think it is a perectly relevant subject that gets right to the heart of why we ascribe trust to some but not to others. Considering the objective nature of scientific enquiry, I'm sure you would agree that the influence of subjective impulses in judging science should be strongly minimized, to say the least.

Incidentally I as well have religious friends who I admire for their moral character as well as being just regular fun and interesting people to climb, work and hang out with. Unlike you however, I also have atheist friends and agnostic friends which I can say exactly the same. I also have friends who are more prone to christian fundamentalism and they carry profoundly biggoted moral imperatives and the usual strange notions of evolution that defies science. We have some glorious arguments about it all. I do think they are being willfully delusional, but I have a hard time calling them "shallow, scared hateful little people".

Did some atheists beat you up when you were a kid or something?
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 14, 2013 - 03:25pm PT
Kman, i more than proved, with a silly lil experiment (psyche 101), the trend of pre-disposed thought patterns of CC types right here in this thread.


Delusional is a good adjective for you now Ron.
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