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dirtbag

climber
Sep 11, 2013 - 07:19am PT
Life is short.

Why waste any more time getting angry and arguing with these dipshits?
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Sep 11, 2013 - 09:40am PT
BRUCEKY
oh Doctor Chuff. You are a peer of the good Dr Roy Spencer. Would you be so kind to review his work here on the creation of the universe?

Spencer views it no different than and the same exact fashion as did FDR, JFK, Carter, Clinton and Lincoln. Same as Thomas Jefferson while you are bullshetting. Obama can be thrown into that mix unless of course he just is stating it to appease those that do in order to gain their votes.

With that said, we can now assume that you will discount them all as total frauds. Fantasy dwellers that due to their belief in Creationism have no place in our nations history, the intrinsic moral values and directions they gave us all as human beings and Americans.

Bruceky, your above post completely secures the point of how invalid your MMGA stance truly is. You and your croanies here have absolutely no place in directing anyone towards saving the planet for saving the planets sake. It is in nothing more than a political dogmatic statement. An ideological movement to render this world a Sociological fantasy Scientism Utopian land of hypocrisy at best.


BTW: Galileo believed in Creationism as well. Best throw his ass into the shetcan. Worthless shetbird.

The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Sep 11, 2013 - 10:05am PT
Better shetcan all these dudes as well. Infidels at best.


Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543)
Copernicus was the Polish astronomer who put forward the first mathematically based system of planets going around the sun. He attended various European universities, and became a Canon in the Catholic church in 1497. His new system was actually first presented in the Vatican gardens in 1533 before Pope Clement VII who approved, and urged Copernicus to publish it around this time. Copernicus was never under any threat of religious persecution - and was urged to publish both by Catholic Bishop Guise, Cardinal Schonberg, and the Protestant Professor George Rheticus. Copernicus referred sometimes to God in his works, and did not see his system as in conflict with the Bible.
Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1627)
Bacon was a philosopher who is known for establishing the scientific method of inquiry based on experimentation and inductive reasoning. In De Interpretatione Naturae Prooemium, Bacon established his goals as being the discovery of truth, service to his country, and service to the church. Although his work was based upon experimentation and reasoning, he rejected atheism as being the result of insufficient depth of philosophy, stating, "It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion; for while the mind of man looketh upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholdeth the chain of them confederate, and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity." (Of Atheism)
Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)
Kepler was a brilliant mathematician and astronomer. He did early work on light, and established the laws of planetary motion about the sun. He also came close to reaching the Newtonian concept of universal gravity - well before Newton was born! His introduction of the idea of force in astronomy changed it radically in a modern direction. Kepler was an extremely sincere and pious Lutheran, whose works on astronomy contain writings about how space and the heavenly bodies represent the Trinity. Kepler suffered no persecution for his open avowal of the sun-centered system, and, indeed, was allowed as a Protestant to stay in Catholic Graz as a Professor (1595-1600) when other Protestants had been expelled!
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Galileo is often remembered for his conflict with the Roman Catholic Church. His controversial work on the solar system was published in 1633. It had no proofs of a sun-centered system (Galileo's telescope discoveries did not indicate a moving earth) and his one "proof" based upon the tides was invalid. It ignored the correct elliptical orbits of planets published twenty five years earlier by Kepler. Since his work finished by putting the Pope's favorite argument in the mouth of the simpleton in the dialogue, the Pope (an old friend of Galileo's) was very offended. After the "trial" and being forbidden to teach the sun-centered system, Galileo did his most useful theoretical work, which was on dynamics. Galileo expressly said that the Bible cannot err, and saw his system as an alternate interpretation of the biblical texts.
Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
Descartes was a French mathematician, scientist and philosopher who has been called the father of modern philosophy. His school studies made him dissatisfied with previous philosophy: He had a deep religious faith as a Roman Catholic, which he retained to his dying day, along with a resolute, passionate desire to discover the truth. At the age of 24 he had a dream, and felt the vocational call to seek to bring knowledge together in one system of thought. His system began by asking what could be known if all else were doubted - suggesting the famous "I think therefore I am". Actually, it is often forgotten that the next step for Descartes was to establish the near certainty of the existence of God - for only if God both exists and would not want us to be deceived by our experiences - can we trust our senses and logical thought processes. God is, therefore, central to his whole philosophy. What he really wanted to see was that his philosophy be adopted as standard Roman Catholic teaching. Rene Descartes and Francis Bacon (1561-1626) are generally regarded as the key figures in the development of scientific methodology. Both had systems in which God was important, and both seem more devout than the average for their era.
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
Love Your God With All Your Mind: The Role of Reason in the Life of the SoulPascal was a French mathematician, physicist, inventor, writer and theologian. In mathematics, he published a treatise on the subject of projective geometry and established the foundation for probability theory. Pascal invented a mechanical calculator, and established the principles of vacuums and the pressure of air. He was raised a Roman Catholic, but in 1654 had a religious vision of God, which turned the direction of his study from science to theology. Pascal began publishing a theological work, Lettres provinciales, in 1656. His most influential theological work, the Pensées ("Thoughts"), was a defense of Christianity, which was published after his death. The most famous concept from Pensées was Pascal's Wager. Pascal's last words were, "May God never abandon me."
Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
In optics, mechanics, and mathematics, Newton was a figure of undisputed genius and innovation. In all his science (including chemistry) he saw mathematics and numbers as central. What is less well known is that he was devoutly religious and saw numbers as involved in understanding God's plan for history from the Bible. He did a considerable work on biblical numerology, and, though aspects of his beliefs were not orthodox, he thought theology was very important. In his system of physics, God was essential to the nature and absoluteness of space. In Principia he stated, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being."
Robert Boyle (1791-1867)
One of the founders and key early members of the Royal Society, Boyle gave his name to "Boyle's Law" for gases, and also wrote an important work on chemistry. Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "By his will he endowed a series of Boyle lectures, or sermons, which still continue, 'for proving the Christian religion against notorious infidels...' As a devout Protestant, Boyle took a special interest in promoting the Christian religion abroad, giving money to translate and publish the New Testament into Irish and Turkish. In 1690 he developed his theological views in The Christian Virtuoso, which he wrote to show that the study of nature was a central religious duty." Boyle wrote against atheists in his day (the notion that atheism is a modern invention is a myth), and was clearly much more devoutly Christian than the average in his era.
Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
Michael Faraday was the son of a blacksmith who became one of the greatest scientists of the 19th century. His work on electricity and magnetism not only revolutionized physics, but led to much of our lifestyles today, which depends on them (including computers and telephone lines and, so, web sites). Faraday was a devoutly Christian member of the Sandemanians, which significantly influenced him and strongly affected the way in which he approached and interpreted nature. Originating from Presbyterians, the Sandemanians rejected the idea of state churches, and tried to go back to a New Testament type of Christianity.
Gregor Mendel (1822-1884)
Mendel was the first to lay the mathematical foundations of genetics, in what came to be called "Mendelianism". He began his research in 1856 (three years before Darwin published his Origin of Species) in the garden of the Monastery in which he was a monk. Mendel was elected Abbot of his Monastery in 1868. His work remained comparatively unknown until the turn of the century, when a new generation of botanists began finding similar results and "rediscovered" him (though their ideas were not identical to his). An interesting point is that the 1860's was notable for formation of the X-Club, which was dedicated to lessening religious influences and propagating an image of "conflict" between science and religion. One sympathizer was Darwin's cousin Francis Galton, whose scientific interest was in genetics (a proponent of eugenics - selective breeding among humans to "improve" the stock). He was writing how the "priestly mind" was not conducive to science while, at around the same time, an Austrian monk was making the breakthrough in genetics. The rediscovery of the work of Mendel came too late to affect Galton's contribution.
William Thomson Kelvin (1824-1907)
Kelvin was foremost among the small group of British scientists who helped to lay the foundations of modern physics. His work covered many areas of physics, and he was said to have more letters after his name than anyone else in the Commonwealth, since he received numerous honorary degrees from European Universities, which recognized the value of his work. He was a very committed Christian, who was certainly more religious than the average for his era. Interestingly, his fellow physicists George Gabriel Stokes (1819-1903) and James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879) were also men of deep Christian commitment, in an era when many were nominal, apathetic, or anti-Christian. The Encyclopedia Britannica says "Maxwell is regarded by most modern physicists as the scientist of the 19th century who had the greatest influence on 20th century physics; he is ranked with Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein for the fundamental nature of his contributions." Lord Kelvin was an Old Earth creationist, who estimated the Earth's age to be somewhere between 20 million and 100 million years, with an upper limit at 500 million years based on cooling rates (a low estimate due to his lack of knowledge about radiogenic heating).
Max Planck (1858-1947)
Planck made many contributions to physics, but is best known for quantum theory, which revolutionized our understanding of the atomic and sub-atomic worlds. In his 1937 lecture "Religion and Naturwissenschaft," Planck expressed the view that God is everywhere present, and held that "the holiness of the unintelligible Godhead is conveyed by the holiness of symbols." Atheists, he thought, attach too much importance to what are merely symbols. Planck was a churchwarden from 1920 until his death, and believed in an almighty, all-knowing, beneficent God (though not necessarily a personal one). Both science and religion wage a "tireless battle against skepticism and dogmatism, against unbelief and superstition" with the goal "toward God!"
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."


FRONTALOBOTOME, this one seals his fate in the invalid scientist category:

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them.
Galileo Galilei 1629
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Sep 11, 2013 - 10:09am PT
There isn't enough amodium ad in the world to stop chuff's digital dribbling. Dirtbag is right... leave the idiots alone... it is the only way to make them go away. Every legitimate issue related to this topic has been settled thousands of posts ago. The rest is just splatterings from a few as#@&%es and the associated shock expressed by concerned passersby.

Unless of course you enjoy playing with sputtering as#@&%es... in which case, by all means, give Chuffer the attention he so desperately craves.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Sep 11, 2013 - 10:14am PT
You lost WEZKID.

You totally lost.

I rec you seek another profession soon cus IF the one you currently have relates to MMGW, you are totally fuked.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Sep 11, 2013 - 11:10am PT
Einstein was Jewish, which is why the people of Israel asked him once to become Israel's second president. Also, Einstein felt uncomfortable with the idea that the Jews are God's favored People.

"For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise, I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them", said Einstein.

Although, neither Einstein nor his parents were religious people, he did in fact attend the Catholic primary school. But at the age of 12 he was already questioning the truth of the stories written in the Bible. "The consequence was a positively fanatic orgy of freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is being deceived by the state through lies; it was a crushing impression", Einstein wrote.

Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 11, 2013 - 11:11am PT
as usual chuff your comprehension sucks. My post was intended two ways

1) high light and mock your incompetence in science , thus you are like a fish out of water in determining the veracity of Roy Spencer's opinions

2). Illustrate that maybe, just maybe RS has an allegiance to something that puts the processes of science in second or maybe even third place.


What FDR etc has to do with it I don,t know.

We know as fact that certain theologies require that the understanding of our natural world conflicts with known science and the adherents chose their theology over science in many ways.

This is indisputable. I,d love to see someone dispute it

We also know that there is a history of some scientists allowing factors other than science to bias the outcome of their science. Fred Singer for instance.

Could that be the case with Roy? Good question don,t you think?
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Sep 11, 2013 - 11:24am PT
So Norton, you're saying it is sort of like that blogger Cook and his thoroughly debunked 97.1% consensus?

Since Rick Sumner is recycling some of his old claims, I'll recycle a response from the last time he said this.

(Ed H) ...by "debunked" you mean attacked on the blogs...

(Chiloe) Yah, Rick has swallowed those "strenuous blog attacks" I mentioned. That's his way of knowing.

In the real world, no one has come close to showing that Cook et al. are wrong -- probably because they are not. Think they are? It would not be that hard to mount your own counter-study, which none of those blog critics has yet tried.

The ultra-simple approach I mentioned, just scan contents & abstracts of any relevant journal (you choose!) will lead to a similar conclusion. Because it is true, most scientists who study the matter agree that greenhouse gas buildup is changing the atmosphere and hence thermal properties of the planet, with uncertain results that we probably won't like.


Whereas the "Oregon petition" that Rick believes in really has been debunked, the Cook et al. paper has not despite strenuous efforts on the blogs. One problem with debunking Cook seems to be that their conclusion is basically correct, supported by independent lines of evidence. For a real simple do-it-yourself example, see my suggestion above.

What kind of published scientists have their own blogs anyway?

Increasingly many. Picking just a few examples from Rick's own 2.9 percent:
Roy Spencer
Roger Pielke Jr.
Roger Pielke Sr.
Judith Curry
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Sep 11, 2013 - 12:00pm PT
Cold here this am ED..Cloudy and cold.


As For Rick, hes on his way -back up North Today.. Hes leavin~~on a jet plane~~dont know when he'll be back again...

The great basin summer was a short and cool one. Only 1.5 weeks of hot weather.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Sep 11, 2013 - 12:03pm PT
The dancing begins. Gotta love it BRUCKY.

Einstein was Jewish, which is why the people of Israel asked him once to become Israel's second president. Also, Einstein felt uncomfortable with the idea that the Jews are God's favored People.

"For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise, I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them", said Einstein.

Although, neither Einstein nor his parents were religious people, he did in fact attend the Catholic primary school. But at the age of 12 he was already questioning the truth of the stories written in the Bible. "The consequence was a positively fanatic orgy of freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is being deceived by the state through lies; it was a crushing impression", Einstein wrote


Twist it all ya want Boys. Something you all are good at.

Now, twist this one.

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Albert Einstein


EDH:

The Chief, you couldn't follow the simplest of the physical arguments you illustrious list above contributed to science... once again, your reading some bedtime story written by one of your wacko blogs

Oh please ED, or any other of you Scientism fanatics, disprove that the above individual scientists DID believe in the fantasy of Creationism nor the existence of a GOD.

Please do that.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Sep 11, 2013 - 12:11pm PT
If there's nothing humans can do to roll back the calamity, you may as well be discussing how many angels can sit atop a needle.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Sep 11, 2013 - 12:12pm PT
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

This is what Albert Einstein wrote in his letter to philosopher Eric Gutkind, in response to his receiving the book "Choose Life: The Biblical Call to Revolt". The letter was written on January 3, 1954, in German, and explains Einstein's personal beliefs regarding religion and the Jewish people.

The letter states pretty clearly that Einstein was by no means a religious person - in fact, the great physicist saw religion as no more than a "childish superstition". "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this", Einstein wrote.

And from wiki:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Albert_Einstein

On 22 March 1954 Einstein received a letter from Joseph Dispentiere, an Italian immigrant who had worked as an experimental machinist in New Jersey. Dispentiere had declared himself an atheist and was disappointed by a news report which had cast Einstein as conventionally religious. Einstein replied on 24 March 1954:

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

khanom

Trad climber
Greeley Hill
Sep 11, 2013 - 12:17pm PT
Yip yip yip!
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Sep 11, 2013 - 12:20pm PT
Einstein's personal beliefs regarding religion and the Jewish people.

That says absolutely NOTHING regarding his belief in a GOD.

Once again, you all equate "religion" with ones belief in a God.

Twist it up boys. Twist it up.



I do not expect any of you to eeeeeeeven come close to understanding that concept.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Sep 11, 2013 - 12:22pm PT
ED H
his particular beliefs in religion...

GOD.

Not religion EDH.


GOD.

Two completely separate entities.


we have control over...

You and I have absolutely NO control over shet. There lies another fantasy on your part.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Sep 11, 2013 - 12:32pm PT
No EDh.

It is in response to BRUCEKY and the rest attempting to discredit DR. Spencer for his beliefs in God and Creationism.

Something you all are soooo good at repeatedly doing.

Total bias to say the least.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Sep 11, 2013 - 12:46pm PT
Dr Hartouni writes:

"Chaz... you forgot about the parts of the climate change that we humans are causing, that part we have control over, it's our choice to do so... and whether of not we do anything, we can estimate the consequences of our actions."


So what do we DO?

It's hard to join on with the "do something" crowd, when we don't know what doing something means.

And how do you propose getting the people who want to do nothing to do something? They get a vote, too.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Sep 11, 2013 - 12:48pm PT
EDH:
my criticism of Spencer is based on the science he's published

Of course ED. "His" science does not go in line with the science that aligns with your belief in how the CC science should be. Especially since he is the designer and implementer of he modeling process that you all distort to your advantage.

Both he and Dr. Christy are the fathers of the CC Models and their process.

NASA seems to think different than you EDH and the rest here. Had they not, neither would have been awarded the NASA Exceptional Scientific Achievement Medal (1991) nor would they continue to seek their expertise in the CC Science research field and continue to fund and accept/acknowledge their research as good science.

Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Sep 11, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
I get especially tickled at the free-marketeer libertarian/austrian clowns like the Blah one, and the "only the free market profit motive can lead us" bile as they post on...oh, the irony of it all, the internet.

Yes, the internet, a product of public sector money far and wide...DARPA, various public Universities, govt grants, etc.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:06pm PT
Apparently reading is not something you are particulary proficient at:

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses..."
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