Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jan 14, 2014 - 08:54pm PT
Wow. Ron. Are you serious? You think that plate tectonics is changing the weather?

It actually has affected the weather in the past, but those changes were far too slow to measure in human-time scale.

We are discussing inches of movement per year. Unless you have a super big volcanic eruption, structural geology has little to do with weather. Nothing happens fast, anyway.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 14, 2014 - 08:57pm PT
Dirtbag is every bit as smart as he seems.


And sketch still pines for the Old South.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 14, 2014 - 09:04pm PT
Oh and sketch, don't worry, you're still top five material.
PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Jan 14, 2014 - 09:06pm PT
Wow ! that is a weird thread you got going here. I predict Chief gets booted soon.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 14, 2014 - 09:52pm PT
Back and catching up. Interesting exchange between the professor and the oil man over the initial 2005 article about reserves and estimated production costs, but it's so yesterday. Anyway, if the rabid enviro types could be cleansed from positions of influence where they exercise extortion and out right lies to enhance their funding stream then perhaps an avenue of cooperation could be opened to our energy future. Natural gas and nuclear are our bridge energies to the imagined promised land of completely safe and clean fuels and electrical generation. If an all out worldwide effort to produce gas from all sources, conventional and otherwise, were coupled with coals replacement with gas in powerplants and converting all commercial vehicles from gasoline to cng, while simultaneously dispelling the paranoia over nuclear we could get very meaningful reductions in anthro plant food (CO2). There has been some testing going on in Canada, Alaska's north slope, and Japan on technologies to unlock methane hydrates (by some estimates methane hydrates rival or exceed all conventional sources) in economically feasible quantity. Below is some info on Japans ongoing program.

http://www.aapg.org/explorer/2013/06jun/methane0613.cfm
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Jan 14, 2014 - 10:10pm PT
Skills?

Yes, skills. As in, it looks good, is clever, and makes a good point illustrating what a laughable asshat you are. Butt jokes made in an unprofessional, childlike scrawl would clearly fall more in your bailiwick, for a point of contrast.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Jan 14, 2014 - 10:22pm PT
Niiice!
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 14, 2014 - 10:36pm PT
http://www.thepiratescove.us/2014/01/14/if-all-you-see-1010/
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Jan 14, 2014 - 11:34pm PT
Climate change extends world war one!

DMT
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Canada
Jan 15, 2014 - 12:06am PT
Rick posted something interesting.

What is the scientific take on the viability of Methane Hydrates ?

British Columbia is about to be shwacked with coastal liquid natural gas ports.( I know, it's not the same)

It's a classic bait and switch victory for the high price per BBL of the Dilbit crowd. Once the price is too low to produce Fort Mac gold, the real prize will be offered as a breakthrough cleaner alternative.

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 15, 2014 - 01:11am PT
"Rick posted something interesting."

At least somebody is making sense.

Natural gas and nuclear are our bridge energies to the imagined promised land of completely safe and clean fuels and electrical generation.


But it ain't rick sumner.


Fukushima Toll: US Sailors Who First Responded to Disaster Complain of Radiation Related Sicknesses, To File Federal Class Action Lawsuit



Yeah, look it up rick. Those US sailors, they don't think nuclear is all that "safe."
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 15, 2014 - 01:16am PT
No one can deny, those Italians know how to dress!

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 15, 2014 - 01:58am PT
Nice post Ed. I get the feeling that what I see as a cool psychedelic-spinning ball, others with trained eyes see much more and are likely to be in awe at what they can understand and gain from the short.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jan 15, 2014 - 02:04am PT
Rock stars don't need oil,' Neil Young says
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/14/showbiz/neil-young-oil/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

I don't know much about Mr. Young, but it would be interesting to see what that guy's "carbon footprint" really is. Wonder how his tour bus gets around, and I haven't heard any real enviros pushing ethanol for a long time, seems like that was another failed gov policy.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jan 15, 2014 - 10:02am PT
We call the injected frack water "load water."

Most of it flows right back. Fluid in a gas well can kill the well by having the hydrostatic pressure in the wellbore exceed the formation flowing pressure. You have to get it back, even if you have to install a pump to pump it off.

That water is one of the greatest expenses. We used to get rid of it in saltwater disposal wells, and still do with some of it, but over the last few years a couple of companies have developed ways to filter and then re-use that water over and over again.

The risk of contamination occurs at the surface, and other than a few accidents, I'm not aware of any actual huge problems. Sure, you see people lighting their tap water on fire, but what you don't hear is that there is gas in the groundwater naturally in many places. That guy in the movie Gasland had natural gas in his water since he drilled the well.

If you've seen Gasland, that film is about as truthful as Arctic Power is, and Arctic Power is a propaganda agency started by the State of Alaska to open ANWR to drilling. There are people lying on both sides of the energy issue.

Frack jobs have never been a huge problem. The size of them now means that a zillion truckloads of water and sand need to be moved around, and that activity is the real problem. Spills and blowouts are pretty rare with shale gas wells. They have super low permeability and have low formation flowing pressure. The notion that you create fractures which communicate the shale to the surface is false. I've seen a fair amount of micro-seismic, where you lay out a geophone array and "listen" to the fractures propagate (to improve your fracture efficiency) and have never seen a fracture get more than a couple of hundred feet out of the zone, which is normally greater than 8000 feet deep.

During Operation Plowshare (google that one up to see something weird), the AEC detonated several nuclear devices in the low permeability gas sands of the San Juan and Piceance Basins. Nope, even nukes didn't communicate to the surface. You have to understand a little basic physics.

Rick did make one good post. In one of his posts he linked to an EIA article that said that China burns almost as much coal as the rest of the world combined. The U.S. is lucky, we had one of the largest oil reserves in the world. China doesn't have much oil.

I still believe that we should be switching to natural gas as a transportation fuel. It wouldn't be too terribly difficult. We are swimming in the stuff right now. Nobody is drilling for gas because the market is flooded.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Jan 15, 2014 - 12:11pm PT
Oh hypocrisies abound, none of us are immune and if a lack of hypocrisy is the prerequisite for speaking an opinion this thread should have zero posts.

I'm just saying...

DMT
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 15, 2014 - 12:55pm PT
The world is a changin boys and girls. It's not just declining newspaper coverage in parallel with declining temps and the self discredidation of the CAGW crowd. No, it's much more.Other countries in Europe and Australia have already been there and done that in respect to direct mitigation efforts and found out the alternatives, as proposed by the rabid enviros, don't work and the populace will only tolerate it to a certain point. That point has passed in Australia and is rapidly approaching for Germany faster than they can retrofit old coal plants and construct new ones, in England they have just approved fracking for gas and might just avoid the calamity of collapsing grids if the formations are as rich as proposed. Russia and Canada had the good sense to back out of Kyota before damages set in, Japan recently announced they are abandoning their targets. WE have never ratified the treaties and apart from grossly subsidized, inefficient, and landscape blighting wind and solar parks, have quietly, as a result of our world leading FF industries huge success in unconventional fields,moved a good ways towards self sufficiency with estimates ranging in the hundreds of years for gas reserves. That has bought us some time to develop the true "clean" energy of tomorrow, except the CAGW industry is still standing, kicking, and screaming in the way. Therein lies the problem, not you guys mind you since you are largely separate from the industry, just hysterically vocal mouthpieces promoting your childish ideology to the end
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jan 15, 2014 - 01:05pm PT
Yes, you are fuked up in the head and else where Bruce. But hey, you live in communist B.C. and you'll be looked after regardless of your utter uselessness to society.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Jan 15, 2014 - 02:04pm PT
This the latest AGW philosophy from the oh great, Dr. James Hansen (Ret):
No, the quote is not from Hansen, it's not recent, and it's not his AGW philosophy.

The quote comes from an anarchist writer named Keith Farnish. In 2008 Farnish wrote to Hansen asking him to write a blurb for a Farnish's book, and Hansen hastily complied while admitting he did not have time to read the book. Hansen has since publicly regretted this blurb, which took on a whole different meaning than Hansen intended when read together with Farnish's anarchist book. What Hansen wrote for the blurb actually is a statement of his philosophy:
"Keith Farnish has it right: time has practically run out, and the 'system' is the problem. Governments are under the thumb of fossil fuel special interests -- they will not look after our and the planet's well-being until we force them to do so, and that is going to require enormous effort."
He has since written this clarification of what he means by "enormous effort." I can add that he made essentially the same points about such effort in his talks at the AGU meetings last month.
In my talks I emphasize the need for young people to get involved and influence the older generations. I specifically list three strategies to be pursued in unison: (1) Dialogue with governments, including use of the ballot box (2) Courts, including common law that today's adults are enjoying use of property that belongs to young people and future generations, use that comes with responsibilities (3) Peaceful demonstration, specifically "civil resistance". Gandhi makes clear in his writings that his approach (which I agree with) is best described by "civil resistance", even though he sometimes used the more popular phrase "civil disobedience". Specifically, note that I have not endorsed anarchy.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 15, 2014 - 03:02pm PT
Chief Number One.
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