Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Aug 28, 2013 - 02:45pm PT
Sustained reduction of human population down to 1 or 2 billion would do wonders.

damn good suggestion!
Mad69Dog

Mountain climber
Superior, CO
Aug 28, 2013 - 02:45pm PT
>A glacial core sample that stretches back 20,000 years is a sporadic
>sample? Just cuz there's one?

One should not attempt to correlate global phenomena in chaotic systems by analysis of data taken from one location.

> If everybody decided that they just didn't have enough data,
>nothing would ever get done.

It's more important to do a few things really well than a whole bunch of things to a mediocre level of quality.
Mad69Dog

Mountain climber
Superior, CO
Aug 28, 2013 - 02:52pm PT
"damn good suggestion!"

And unfortunately one that has a snowball's chance in hell of happening.

I know the limitations of photovoltaics and the use of solar-powered steam generation to drive turbine generators. I'd love to see even a fraction of global revenues be put into these techs, even if they are not efficient enough to 'pay their own way', because turning sunlight into electrical energy is effectively anti-warming. It will take decades to get all of the required infrastructure in place.

"He blew all the credibility he built up with that one statement ;-)"

With all the sh#t-slinging that goes on here, a dose of humor goes a long way.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Aug 28, 2013 - 03:02pm PT
But has his group been able to provide correlative proof?

No one feels obliged to prove anything to the fringe who will always deny.

And yeah, it was quite funny, when you claimed most leading climate scientists aren't sure that fuel combustion has warmed the planet.
Mad69Dog

Mountain climber
Superior, CO
Aug 28, 2013 - 03:51pm PT
Well, let's see you determine the composite heat budget for the planet.

While you are at it, provide a jet stream model that is accurately predictive.

Until you can get correlation on a global scale, all you have is speculation. I agree with much of the speculation, just not the claims of proof.

>No one feels obliged to prove anything to the fringe who will always deny.

Then don't call it 'science'. Peer review is the very core of science.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Aug 28, 2013 - 04:05pm PT
MADDOG!!

You knew Brutus??????
Mad69Dog

Mountain climber
Superior, CO
Aug 28, 2013 - 04:09pm PT
Yes sir! We only met face to face on that one trip, which was Alan Steck's 75th birthday party at Red Rocks. But we 'knew' each other for years through rec.climbing.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Aug 28, 2013 - 04:13pm PT
We already have a good idea of where the heat is going. Sorry it doesn't meet your standards.


You've got some funny concepts about proof going their, Mad69dog. Good luck.

BTW, what's your definition of 100% correlative proof?
Mad69Dog

Mountain climber
Superior, CO
Aug 28, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
Yes, proof is science's troll to the layman.

Science does not actually aspire to provide proof in its purest form. Science attempts to eliminate conflicting possibilities. In this case, we have the ability to measure greenhouse gases in the atmosphere with adequate sensitivity and precision. But drawing a graph of CO2 alongside some indicator of temperature does not correlate the two unless you remove / correct for all other contributions to global heat. This is where even the most sophisticated models struggle - the global heat budget. Thus the need for far more sensors.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Aug 28, 2013 - 04:26pm PT
That's why your demand for 'correlative proof' is funny. You seem to be understanding this now.

The last assessment of the science is we are 90% sure man is causing the warming.

The leaked assessment has moved that up to 95%.

You are just going to have to dig into the reports yourself for all the details.

And yep, lots of factors contributing to the climate system have been considered, not just CO2.
squishy

Mountain climber
Aug 28, 2013 - 04:29pm PT
Mad69Dog

Mountain climber
Superior, CO
Aug 28, 2013 - 04:34pm PT
>You seem to be understanding this now.

As if you could pretend to know...

But there is no proof because the global heat budget is a gross approximation. There is no proof. Yet. So feel free to believe what you will, just don't pretend that there is proof.

>The last assessment of the science is we are 90% sure man is
>causing the warming.

That is hilarious. Based on what, exactly, is this 90%?
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Aug 28, 2013 - 04:42pm PT
Yep, Mad69dog, you are going to have to dig into the reports to understand the confidence level.

No one here will bother, considering your misrepresentation of what the 'leading' climate scientists claim.
Mad69Dog

Mountain climber
Superior, CO
Aug 28, 2013 - 05:13pm PT
Monolith, do you work in the field of climate change?
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Aug 28, 2013 - 05:18pm PT
MADDOG, you are aware that Brutus, Nurse Ratchet and I spent some time together and put up some Sierra backcountry routes. DMT spent more time with them two than I as well.

Brutus and I used to discuss this very subject on a regular basis. Laughing our asses off at how each side of the coin proliferates their obscene propaganda. He being on the PRO and I being on the QUESTIONING side as he called it.

Just saw Nurse Ratchet yesterday as a matter of fact. She came by the office to say hey and let me know about the Potluck for Matt's Memorial.

With that said, welcome to this discussion and as I already see, the prolific bombardment of shet for standing your ground.
Mad69Dog

Mountain climber
Superior, CO
Aug 28, 2013 - 05:23pm PT
Hi Chief,

You are a blessed man for spending real time with Brutus and the Nurse. Awesome folks.

Yes, I tend to take alot of flack for my environmental stances. I've been in research for a bit over 30 years now and am used to it. But what do I know, all I've done is decades of research in these fields...

Peace!
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Aug 28, 2013 - 05:39pm PT
FRONTAL.

"GOD!!!!"

Did you say god??? Blasphemy.

Get off the computer and go look for your ass.








***I can't go look for Matt. I have two crews in the field. More going out tomorrow through the weekend. Then more next week etc etc etc.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Aug 28, 2013 - 05:59pm PT
Why would it matter, Maddog? Ed Hartouni doesn't work in climate change. Are you going to question his credentials too?

Anyone who believes, as you do, that most of the leading climate scientists are uncertain about combustion of fossil fuels causing global warming is clueless, regardless of their credentials.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Aug 28, 2013 - 07:28pm PT
The American Geophysical Union (AGU) statement

“Human activities are changing Earth’s climate. At the global level, atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping greenhouse gases have increased sharply since the Industrial Revolution. Fossil fuel burning dominates this increase. Human-caused increases in greenhouse gases are responsible for most of the observed global average surface warming of roughly 0.8°C (1.5°F) over the past 140 years. Because natural processes cannot quickly remove some of these gases (notably carbon dioxide) from the atmosphere, our past, present, and future emissions will influence the climate system for millennia.


That of course is the same AGU that Judith Curry just busted in an open letter, catching them stifling and ordering the refusal of ANY OPPOSING AGW PAPER to be published in and under their name.

That is the same AGU that Roger Pielke SR, one of the longest standing members of that club, called out two months ago, for basically doing the same thing that Curry just busted them for, to him.

Got it.

AMS stated that??? Please post where you found that cus it is no where on their site. No where.

This is there statement that looks nothing like the one you posted.



02/02/2007


New AMS Statement on Climate Change: Climate is Changing; Humans Play a Role

Despite uncertainties, there is adequate evidence from observations and interpretations of climate simulations to conclude that the atmosphere, ocean, and land surface are warming; that humans have significantly contributed to this change; and that further climate change will continue to have important impacts on human societies, on economies, on ecosystems and on wildlife through the 21st century and beyond, according to a new information statement on climate change issued by the American Meteorological Society today.
http://www.ametsoc.org/amsnews/newsreleases.html PDF Version

BTW: The above statement was not agreed upon by the majority of the AMS Members. I will find the open letter that was submitted and signed by a large percentage of the members voicing their full disagreement.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Aug 28, 2013 - 08:17pm PT
Guy Martin on Fracking.


Precisely.

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