Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Aug 5, 2013 - 12:28pm PT
One gigantic problem Ed and others-you guys have absolutely no observationally verifiable validation of how all your microscopic bits of theoretical minutia fit into and interact in the tremendously complicated dynamic whole. No amount of jiggering with the models, scaring the public, fudging the data, or circle jerk reinforcement in the CAGW community can make up for this. The climate doesn't care nor conform to the phony science.

Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Aug 5, 2013 - 12:29pm PT
There is always someone bigger & badder around the block to bully the 'EXPERT'.

Fixed it for you Chuff.



Ron if you question Eds Allegience, then why don't you articulate a few questions to examine that idea? Personally I think its a great idea as it would hopefully reveal motivation on Eds part. As I said before for all I know Ed ( or whoever I was talking about at the time) is actually a secret eco terrorist or maybe an Al quida plant.

However, you should realize that if you embark on such a line of questioning you invite the same toward yourself. I just thought I'd articulate that point in case your spidey senses don't kick in properly this morning.

The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Aug 5, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
talking about those who actually understand the science

Like everything else ED, the science must be correct prior to understanding it.

Science is a dynamic concept. Not static. You make the science of Climate Change out to be completely static and in one direction. Yours.

BRUCE:

Like this "Expert" that you and the others here are "Bullying"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Curry

Precisely Bruce. Precisely.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Aug 5, 2013 - 12:31pm PT
The climate does react and "care" about man's activities.


http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2013/03/new-hockey-stick-graph-...
http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2013/03/new-hockey-stick-graph-scarier
Credit: monolith

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Aug 5, 2013 - 12:37pm PT
Mono- you would be well served to find graphs with other authors. Those guys are the Weiner's of the weather world. Everybody snickers and laughs about the public spectacle of them being caught with their pants down, so to speak
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Aug 5, 2013 - 12:40pm PT
You had better start posting them, cuz you are going to keep seeing these every time you blame the sun or something.
Cragar

Trad climber
MSLA - MT
Aug 5, 2013 - 02:25pm PT
One gigantic problem Ed and others-you guys have absolutely no observationally verifiable validation of how all your microscopic bits of theoretical minutia fit into and interact in the tremendously complicated dynamic whole.

certainly not true, starting with the successful explanation, in 1896, of the temperature of the surface of the Earth.

We can go on from there if you wish... how would you like to start? I'd suggest starting with the highlights of climate science...

While it is complicated and dynamic, it is accessible via scientific observation and explainable with theory, including the fundamental theory which is entirely relevant to the explanations. That's what all those climate scientists have been doing for so long.

Your characterization seems to imply that the "microscopic bits of theoretical minutia" aren't relevant... but your gaff above is not about some side issue, you've completely misunderstood thermodynamics and have implied that all of electrodynamics and quantum mechanics are incorrect because applying them to this problem comes up with the "wrong" answer...

...unfortunately, the answer is what it is, rick, and it is supported by the observations. It is really such a simple thing, CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere are responsible for the planet's temperatures. Increase the concentration and increase the temperature. It really is that simple.

Thanks Ed. You remind me of someone who can 'get' the climbing in the Meadows with all the patience and correct deliberate moves you have made in this thread. Although, I don't know of any 60+ pitch route in the Meadows ;^)
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Aug 5, 2013 - 02:57pm PT
Ed, you know damn well i'm not challenging all of the basis of the current understanding of thermodynamics,electrodynamics, or quantum mechanics, just the characterizations ascribed to the mythical molecule.I may have incorrectly characterized from memory the gist of it, but there are physicists and mathematicians reevaluating this.The climate sensitivity to CO2 is steadily trending downward in reevaluations-that you cannot deny and have even stated so in the recent past. I think there is a new paper in Nature to this effect-something about reconstruction of past climate sensitivity to doubling of CO2, from empirical evidence, leads to a climate sensitivity of 0.8 C. Look it up.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 5, 2013 - 03:00pm PT
I pledge allegiance
to the model
of the climate change of America
and to the republicans
who stand against it
one nation, without god
Somewhat divisible
With pollution and carbon credits for all.

Amen.

DMT

(allegiance, sheesh!)
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Aug 5, 2013 - 03:19pm PT
Rick may be referring to the paper discussed here:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-sensitivity-single-study-syndrome-nic-lewis-edition.html

Rick's the one who needs to say what paper he is referring to if he wants a response.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Aug 5, 2013 - 03:24pm PT
BRUCE:

Like this "Expert" that you and the others here are "Bullying"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Curry

Precisely Bruce. Precisely.


I'm bullying her? Sorry old sport but I reserve all my scorn and ridicule for you. I have no business bullying or even criticizing Judith Curry as it is well outside of my expertise. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that she is getting a rough ride from some of her peers but if her opinions are correct they will be proven correct as is provided for in the processes of her community. Until that occurs I would hope she has a skin thick enough to match her intellectual courage .... unlike some on this thread.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Aug 5, 2013 - 03:41pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT. Nice come back! Not!^^^^^^^^^^^


BADDDA BIING!
dirtbag

climber
Aug 5, 2013 - 03:48pm PT
^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^



Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 5, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
that was fresh^^^^^^ the first fiddy times or so.. Now,, not so much...


So tell me why the CC crowd seems to grab onto ANYTHING and EVERYTHING they can to propel this cause? You know like polar bears and super fires. This is akin to car lots using some bondo and a quick paint job to say the car is "mint".
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Aug 5, 2013 - 04:07pm PT
This is akin to car lots using some bondo and a quick paint job to say the car is "mint".


No - that is your characterization. The polar bear thing for instance presents a plausible threat scenario based on the hypothesis that polar bears need floe ice to conduct their business. It is somewhat speculative in the sense that it assumes that addaptation ti this scenario would be one way or another to problematic to support their survival.

It is a reasonable hypothesis. It may prove correct.

Now for someone - anyone that is, denier or pro - to present this as either a certainty or as what you call a "flagship" in terms of relevance of effect is to be engaging in intellectual dishonesty.


Sorry to be a nag ...... Now that I provided an answer to your querry, how about you reciprocate?


Ron if you question Eds Allegience, then why don't you articulate a few questions to examine that idea?


Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 5, 2013 - 04:09pm PT
Bruce,, i guess i need to remind you that even our own govt admitted listing the p bear as threatened was JUST A GUESS OF FUTURE CONCERN over GW..Not even Canada went along with that tripe. Numbers were falsified and skewed to fit the GW theme. Just like the many other flagships they have sailed into the briney deep.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Aug 5, 2013 - 04:18pm PT
OK don't reciprocate.


But if you won't don't whine about injury to your poor sensitive dignity....

Because you actually don't have one
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 5, 2013 - 04:26pm PT
I also ask the honest opinion of every builder who sees my work so I can make potential improvements on my next project.

Must REALLY suck to have to seek the APPROVAL of others in all ones daily affairs.

I seek OPINIONS, not APPROVAL you gigantic communal douche nozzle. Learn to read you fuking imbecile.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Aug 5, 2013 - 04:37pm PT
Uh oh...

4 Repub EPA Heads Call For Action on Climate Change

Old news here. Ron already dismissed the relevance of that, after I pestered him for an opinion for the bulk of a day.


He finally stopped ignoring me long enough to claimed that as not a single person exists in washington who has any integrity, there is no basis to care what any of them says, including those ex EPA heads.

Which is another way of saying If I don't trust anyone to any degree, I have a fantastic excuse not to engage in any process that involves them. Which explains the confederate flag outside my shop.
dirtbag

climber
Aug 5, 2013 - 04:41pm PT
He really should stick to stuffing jackalopes.
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