Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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raymond phule

climber
Feb 24, 2015 - 12:21pm PT

As a stand alone statement, is it true?
yes, if you interpret it in the way that the whole paragraph suggest.

If so, please explain how it is misleading.
It is misleading because people like you believe that the sentence say something that it doesn't say.

The sentence is easily misinterpreted if taken out of context.

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Feb 24, 2015 - 12:23pm PT
Sorta like the 405 freeway - we can't predict with any accuracy the precise speed of a given car at a given time on a given date. But we cab bound it nicely; let's say it will be between 0-300 mph and we could do a bell curve between 0-70 with the sweet spot 15-55 mph. Now add in car make, regional events, etc, etc. etc and we still have a bounded-probability.

I know the San Diego Freeway is much more crowded now than it was when I was commuting between Palms and El Segundo in the mid-1970's, but even in those benighted days of the double-nickel limit, a normal distribution of speed would have been centered at about 65.

Despite the quibble above, I agree with your analogy, DMT. Yes, we are forecasting a famously chaotic system, but the hypothesis we are testing isn't one predicting the precise climate at a precise location. Rather, we are looking at the system as a whole, and asking how what we are doing changes what would otherwise happen.

While I maintain no hope of changing anyone's rhetoric, the source of one's research funding means a whole lot less to me than the observable results of their predictions. Almost everyone performing any serious research does so for pay, and the results of that research often dictate who will pay for more research. That said, I discount "news" stories where special interest groups tout research supporting their positions, and particularly so when the research involves non-experimental data. The research itself, however, rises or falls on its own merits or demerits, not on its funding source.

John

Edit: My comments above do not affect my thinking about published legal research, in the form of briefs. Charles Evans Hughes went from being the Chief Justice of the SCOTUS to forming the famous and eminent New York firm of Hughes, Hubbard & Reed. After he left the bench, he took up a case where the client required a legal position contrary to one of Hughes's rulings as a judge. Needless to say, his former brethren asked him to explain his change of position at oral argument. Hughes famous reply: "I think better for money."
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Feb 24, 2015 - 12:44pm PT
The IPCC makes all kinds of predictions, which go on for several volumes,
if you ever read them, instead of relying on dark funded faux blogs.
The only hedge is that the IPCC is not exact, but generally close enough.
And they depend on different scenarios of when and if we ever slow GHG emissions.

Even on this thread with its trolls,
most of the deniers have accepted that
global warming is real, and
it is mainly caused by manmade GHGs,
and have moved on to stage 3:
questioning any policy to do something about it.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 24, 2015 - 02:07pm PT
raymond phule

climber

Feb 24, 2015 - 12:21pm PT

As a stand alone statement, is it true?
yes, if you interpret it in the way that the whole paragraph suggest.

If so, please explain how it is misleading.

It is misleading because people like you believe that the sentence say something that it doesn't say.

The sentence is easily misinterpreted if taken out of context.

How circular.

Dizzying.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Feb 24, 2015 - 03:07pm PT
It was -12F here when we got home last night, been that kind of winter. But not everywhere, of course. In their January 2015 updates NASA and NOAA both show continuing "warm" global temperatures. I've been graphing these intermittently either as monthly or yearly values, but it occurred to me that an uncentered 12-month moving average would have the advantages of both -- smoother (like annual values) but updated each month and up to date (like monthly). So here's what that looks like for the NASA index, showing 12-month averages each month from January 1900 to January 2015.

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2015 - 03:42pm PT
K-man -

Tell us how the above quote was out of context. In your own words.


out of context
[of an utterance or the report of an action] removed from the surrounding context of the event, thereby misrepresenting the intent of the utterance or report.


Now in my own words: You took one sentence in the middle of a paragraph, which was in the middle of a report. The sentence lacked the surrounding context [text] which had meaning to the sentence you quoted.

Make sense?




K-man indicated the sentence was misleading.


EdT, living in a world of make-believe.
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Feb 24, 2015 - 04:10pm PT

ice climber tools Global Warming at Niagara Falls.





EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 24, 2015 - 04:39pm PT
out of context
[of an utterance or the report of an action] removed from the surrounding context of the event, thereby misrepresenting the intent of the utterance or report.

Now in my own words: You took one sentence in the middle of a paragraph, which was in the middle of a report. The sentence lacked the surrounding context [text] which had meaning to the sentence you quoted.

Make sense?

EdT, living in a world of make-believe.

What you (and Raymond) keep saying is it's out of context because it's out of context.

Circular reasoning, without showing how it was out of context.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2015 - 05:33pm PT
What you (and Raymond) keep saying is it's out of context, because it is out of context.

This is a true statement.



Circular reasoning, without showing how it was out of context.

This is another make-believe statement.




Read this, perhaps it will have meaning if you read it slowly and mouth the words as you read:

The sentence lacked the surrounding content which adds meaning to the sentence you quoted.

This is precisely how it was out of context.
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Feb 24, 2015 - 08:22pm PT
Not difficult to guess which one's have been.
America’s Colleges Have Become Political Correctness Indoctrination Centers.





Another mini series on climate starts soon.
But reviews for the celebrity filled Showtime series have been less than
stellar. See: ‘When it comes to issues like the climate, James Cameron is
just batsh*t crazy’ – says Former Harvard University Physicist Dr. Lubos
Motl & NYT OpED: ‘If you were looking for ways to increase public
skepticism about global warming, you could hardly do better than the
forthcoming nine-part series on climate change’ from Showtime.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 25, 2015 - 05:11am PT
Dave - It sounds like you're talking about "The Years of Living Dangerously", which aired last Spring. It was heavily promoted, praised by critics and received several awards. But viewership was low.

Remember the DeLorean?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 25, 2015 - 05:16am PT
The Peril of Great Causes

As a Lukewarmer I cheerfully accept the science explaining how our high emissions of CO2 have contributed to the current warming period. As a liberal progressive I support large-scale (government and NGO) efforts to address the pressing problems of today. And as someone who has worked in the solar power industry and reported on green technology for over a decade, I believe that green energy can provide a partial solution to some of those problems.

But as a Lukewarmer I see flaws in what has become a Great Cause–to me it seems to often be an excuse for NGOs to ask the public for more money, for politicians to gain easy support and to replace the stock prayer from beauty pageant contestants for world peace.

Climate change is real. The political struggle over acknowledging the scope and impacts is full of unreality.

When a political cause gains traction among those in power, a curious thing happens. Conventional ideas about right and wrong slip in priority and winning becomes so important that criminal activity and sexual impropriety become forgivable by those in service to a Cause.

Peter Gleick stole documents and forged another to attack his political opponents. Despite the gravity of this crime he was welcomed back into the fold of those promoting worst-case scenarios about the impacts of climate change as if he were a hero, not a criminal. This is not unusual in political movements. The cause becomes more important.

Al Gore was one of the first who promoted global warming as an imminent threat to human safety. His sybaritic lifestyle was evident from the first–private planes, living in a mansion, conspicuous consumption. None of that was sufficient to cause the Cause to disavow him. It still is unclear whether it was his arrest for pressuring a masseuse for sex or his sale of his television channel to a fossil fuel organization was the cause of his fall from grace–but that fall was apparently temporary, as he still speaks on global warming before green groups the world over. The rules don’t apply.

And now it is the turn of Rajendra Pachauri. Women are now speaking of a decade-long pattern of sexual harassment. Even before this revelation, Pachauri was involved in misconduct, ranging from suppressing dissent to hiding the income from his foundation. He showed incredibly poor judgment in publishing a bodice ripper of a novel while head of an organization that had been criticized by the IAC–with many of those criticisms calling into question his leadership. But it doesn’t matter. He was a champion of the Cause.

Currently, some bloggers and mainstream media sources are reviving decade-long questions about the funding of a scientist named Willie Soon, that he received funding from fossil fuel sources.

It doesn’t matter that institutions ranging from the CRU and Stanford University have received funding from fossil fuel sources, or that BEST’s Richard Muller actually got money from the Koch Brothers. It doesn’t matter that this information is old.

What matters for the Cause is that headlines of supposed misbehavior hit the news at the same time as Pachauri’s disgrace.

Because none of this is about science. It is about controlling the levers of power, making sure the right message is fed through the media channels and that funding for the right issues is uninterrupted.

Oh for the days when we talked about science.

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 25, 2015 - 05:52am PT
In their January 2015 updates NASA and NOAA both show continuing "warm" global temperatures. I've been graphing these intermittently either as monthly or yearly values, but it occurred to me that an uncentered 12-month moving average would have the advantages of both -- smoother (like annual values) but updated each month and up to date (like monthly). So here's what that looks like for the NASA index, showing 12-month averages each month from January 1900 to January 2015.

Chiloe - would you provide the data and link for the values in your chart?

Is this it?

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/tabledata_v3/GLB.Ts+dSST.txt
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 25, 2015 - 06:46am PT
Sketch, it would be ethical to provide attribution to your quotes, as they are obviously not original ideas.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 25, 2015 - 07:21am PT
Wade - Thanks for all you contribute.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 25, 2015 - 08:47am PT
Proud to serve Sketch, Dave, EdTroll...The President is on line one, wants to know what's your cut and paste du jour?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 25, 2015 - 09:29am PT
Did you ever figure out which farmers Dave was talking about?

It was obvious.

But.... you never know.

Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 25, 2015 - 10:13am PT
too busy filtering your bullshit Sketch. Did you ever figure out what 'context' means?
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Feb 25, 2015 - 10:28am PT
too busy filtering your bullshit Sketch.

Wow. Really?

When I wrote "you never know", I was being facetious.

I had no idea the question was so tough.

Don't sweat it.

We wouldn't want you to overextend yourself.

Take care.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Feb 25, 2015 - 10:29am PT
the EdwardTroll gets its jollys by getting you to mud wrestle him in the back 40 of BS. But go ahead and join the next round.
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