Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 10, 2013 - 09:44am PT
For the reality-based community, some lively writing by Phil Plait (the Bad Astronomer) on the latest Wall Street Journal pseudo-science:

No Need to Worry About Global Warming, Folks: More Carbon Dioxide Will Be Awesome

I see a lot of pretty amazingly bad global warming denial online. It ranges from mildly cherry-picked data to such baldly transparent garbage that you have to wonder if the person who wrote it can possibly, actually believe what they are saying is true.

After reading dozens, hundreds, of such mind-numbing articles, I think we’ve found a winner. One that is so sweepingly wrong and based on such a ridiculous premise that it’s weapons-grade denial. Unsurprisingly, it was published in the Wall Street Journal, which has a lengthy history of printing reality-free OpEds about climate change. Perhaps surprisingly, it was penned by two actual scientists, William Happer and Harrison Schmitt. I’ll have more about them later.


You can read the rest at http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/05/10/carbon_dioxide_and_global_warming_more_is_not_better.html
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
May 10, 2013 - 10:20am PT
And in case you are still confused as to how supposedly serious readers of a serious news journal could ever consider themselves seriously, here's how:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/05/09/creationism_in_school_science_quiz_gets_it_totally_wrong.html?wpisrc=most_viral


Anyway, this whole catastrophist thing is a joke, isn't it? Why else would i be laughing my ass off.

you are easily amused i guess
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 10, 2013 - 12:27pm PT
Yesterday:

Climate Milestone: Earth’s CO2 Level Passes 400 ppm
Greenhouse gas highest since the Pliocene, when sea levels were higher and the Earth was warmer


An instrument near the summit of Mauna Loa in Hawaii recorded a long-awaited climate milestone today: the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere there has exceeded 400 parts per million (ppm) for the first time in 55 years of measurement—and probably more than 3 million years of Earth history.

The last time the concentration of Earth's main greenhouse gas reached this mark, horses and camels lived in the high Arctic. Seas were at least 30 feet higher—at a level that today would inundate major cities around the world.

The planet was about 2 to 3 degrees Celsius (3.6 to 5.4 degrees Fahrenheit) warmer. But the Earth then was in the final stage of a prolonged greenhouse epoch, and CO2 concentrations were on their way down. This time, 400 ppm is a milepost on a far more rapid uphill climb toward an uncertain climate future.


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2013/05/130510-earth-co2-milestone-400-ppm/
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 10, 2013 - 12:39pm PT
so what caused Co2 back then?
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 10, 2013 - 01:12pm PT
so what caused Co2 back then?

If you really wanted to know, can you think of a way to find out?
dirtbag

climber
May 10, 2013 - 01:19pm PT
By listening to more Rush Limbaugh?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 10, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
so what caused the Co2 to go down back then? Or the rise to begin with?
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
May 10, 2013 - 02:27pm PT
Anecdotal evidence its still chilly in Greenland count for anything?

RIP

Explorer Philip Goodeve-Docker freezes to death on second day
of trek across Greenland.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/explorer-philip-goodevedocker-freezes-to-death-on-second-day-of-trek-across-greenland-8598397.html


Suspect they did not build a strong enough snow block wall
to protect the tent at camp, gale force winds shredded it and poor Phil could not do any emergency action to maintain his body temps.

edit: the piece was obviously written by some media cubical
type with little understanding.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 10, 2013 - 02:32pm PT
Ron .... good questions.

+1111
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 10, 2013 - 03:00pm PT
Anecdotal evidence its still chilly in Greenland count for anything?

Meant the world to unfortunate explorer Philip Goodeve-Docker, obviously. May he RIP.

Regarding climate on the other hand it counts for zilch. Here's a real Greenland climate update by Jason Box:

Greenland “snow drought” makes big 2013 melt more likely

Multiple melt factors combine to increase the odds of more melt water runoff from the ice sheet during the 2013 melt season:
* less ‘cold content’ of snow to melt away (ablate) for a given energy input before bare ice is exposed;
* a longer period of exposed darker bare ice, in this case weeks earlier bare ice exposure is likely unless a big snow dump before or during the coming warm season;
* Less snow leads to a smaller refreezing capacity in the lower accumulation area. Thanks Robert Fausto of GEUS for reminding me of this one.
* a possible higher concentration of light absorbing impurities per unit volume of snow, assuming that the impurities are deposited whether or not it snows.

This pattern results from a persistent atmospheric anomaly, blocking cold air transport southward along west Greenland, producing relatively warm temperatures there while northwestern Europe has had a cold winter (Figure 2).


More at http://www.meltfactor.org/blog/?p=860
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
May 10, 2013 - 05:22pm PT
Hey Ron, Guyman, help me out here.
You would not believe it anyway,whatever I/We say about how carbon rose or decreased,[i do know],you will refute it or will you.There is a consensus of how that happened,please give us your theory.
I will only refute with web links,and you probably would not want to read that much.
After all there must be 2 or 3 viable theories that you fruitcakes suscribe to.
Post em up,c'mon now
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
May 10, 2013 - 05:38pm PT
I mean come on man,theres got to be something on shell,exxon,bp's websites to argue this ,Ron,Guyman, even Rick.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
May 10, 2013 - 06:20pm PT
The last gasps of the discredited catastrophists. Guys, die with a little dignity would you please.

Dr. F, that is the clearest most concise summation of the CAGW crowd i've ever heard.

Wilbeer you'll never in a million years devise a strategy to deal with me.
dirtbag

climber
May 10, 2013 - 06:27pm PT
Rick, are you in drugs? Seriously.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
May 10, 2013 - 06:27pm PT
nice response,just full of science,even you could do better than that,i will give you that much
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
May 10, 2013 - 06:31pm PT
They won't die, they'll just move on to the next over-hyped "catastrophe"--including new ones with at least a grain of truth. (And the transition from "global warming" to "climate change" was smooth--even if you don't like those guys, you have to give some credit for rebranding their "catastrophe" and milking it for a few more years.)
Nothing really wrong with "science" per se, just got to watch how much public funds we blow on it; in case anyone hasn't noticed the US isn't exactly rolling in cash these days (well we are, problem is most of it is printed or otherwise created out of thin air, or borrowed). Studying "climate change" is probably a less ridiculous waste of taxpayer money than shooting men to the moon or Mars or wherever else.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
May 10, 2013 - 06:42pm PT
Rick you are straying from the issue,i could care less about making a strategy for/about you.Show me some science /theories/hell even opinions about your agenda,i am going to fight you ,thats the way it is.
That does not mean i hate you dude,there is plenty of your kind where i live.
This would be my third bbq.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 10, 2013 - 06:45pm PT
if you're not part of the solution...
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 10, 2013 - 06:47pm PT
He's showing you the hook, wilbeer. Don't bite bro, THAT is an effective strategy. He even trolled that arrogant Eh Hartouni ;-)

DMT
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 10, 2013 - 07:17pm PT
To put it in my simple mans grasp. The world and Co2 level has changed many times in the past without mans intervention in such. My argument is NOT that we DO indeed have an effect, but rather the significance of that in relation to an always changing planet, and the predictability of the future- especially when considering the amount of time involved for changes to take place. I think much of global warming to be another eco-self supporting industry to be honest. Much like the "mustang" of the great basin which now enjoys all manner of support- completely opposite on common sense.

That ISNT to say reducing emissions of all types isnt a good idea. Obviously, the cleaner the air the better.
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