Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 10, 2013 - 09:44am PT
For the reality-based community, some lively writing by Phil Plait (the Bad Astronomer) on the latest Wall Street Journal pseudo-science:

No Need to Worry About Global Warming, Folks: More Carbon Dioxide Will Be Awesome

I see a lot of pretty amazingly bad global warming denial online. It ranges from mildly cherry-picked data to such baldly transparent garbage that you have to wonder if the person who wrote it can possibly, actually believe what they are saying is true.

After reading dozens, hundreds, of such mind-numbing articles, I think we’ve found a winner. One that is so sweepingly wrong and based on such a ridiculous premise that it’s weapons-grade denial. Unsurprisingly, it was published in the Wall Street Journal, which has a lengthy history of printing reality-free OpEds about climate change. Perhaps surprisingly, it was penned by two actual scientists, William Happer and Harrison Schmitt. I’ll have more about them later.


You can read the rest at http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/05/10/carbon_dioxide_and_global_warming_more_is_not_better.html
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 10, 2013 - 12:27pm PT
Yesterday:

Climate Milestone: Earth’s CO2 Level Passes 400 ppm
Greenhouse gas highest since the Pliocene, when sea levels were higher and the Earth was warmer


An instrument near the summit of Mauna Loa in Hawaii recorded a long-awaited climate milestone today: the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere there has exceeded 400 parts per million (ppm) for the first time in 55 years of measurement—and probably more than 3 million years of Earth history.

The last time the concentration of Earth's main greenhouse gas reached this mark, horses and camels lived in the high Arctic. Seas were at least 30 feet higher—at a level that today would inundate major cities around the world.

The planet was about 2 to 3 degrees Celsius (3.6 to 5.4 degrees Fahrenheit) warmer. But the Earth then was in the final stage of a prolonged greenhouse epoch, and CO2 concentrations were on their way down. This time, 400 ppm is a milepost on a far more rapid uphill climb toward an uncertain climate future.


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2013/05/130510-earth-co2-milestone-400-ppm/
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 10, 2013 - 01:12pm PT
so what caused Co2 back then?

If you really wanted to know, can you think of a way to find out?
dirtbag

climber
May 10, 2013 - 01:19pm PT
By listening to more Rush Limbaugh?
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
May 10, 2013 - 02:27pm PT
Anecdotal evidence its still chilly in Greenland count for anything?

RIP

Explorer Philip Goodeve-Docker freezes to death on second day
of trek across Greenland.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/explorer-philip-goodevedocker-freezes-to-death-on-second-day-of-trek-across-greenland-8598397.html


Suspect they did not build a strong enough snow block wall
to protect the tent at camp, gale force winds shredded it and poor Phil could not do any emergency action to maintain his body temps.

edit: the piece was obviously written by some media cubical
type with little understanding.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 10, 2013 - 02:32pm PT
Ron .... good questions.

+1111
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 10, 2013 - 03:00pm PT
Anecdotal evidence its still chilly in Greenland count for anything?

Meant the world to unfortunate explorer Philip Goodeve-Docker, obviously. May he RIP.

Regarding climate on the other hand it counts for zilch. Here's a real Greenland climate update by Jason Box:

Greenland “snow drought” makes big 2013 melt more likely

Multiple melt factors combine to increase the odds of more melt water runoff from the ice sheet during the 2013 melt season:
* less ‘cold content’ of snow to melt away (ablate) for a given energy input before bare ice is exposed;
* a longer period of exposed darker bare ice, in this case weeks earlier bare ice exposure is likely unless a big snow dump before or during the coming warm season;
* Less snow leads to a smaller refreezing capacity in the lower accumulation area. Thanks Robert Fausto of GEUS for reminding me of this one.
* a possible higher concentration of light absorbing impurities per unit volume of snow, assuming that the impurities are deposited whether or not it snows.

This pattern results from a persistent atmospheric anomaly, blocking cold air transport southward along west Greenland, producing relatively warm temperatures there while northwestern Europe has had a cold winter (Figure 2).


More at http://www.meltfactor.org/blog/?p=860
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
May 10, 2013 - 05:22pm PT
Hey Ron, Guyman, help me out here.
You would not believe it anyway,whatever I/We say about how carbon rose or decreased,[i do know],you will refute it or will you.There is a consensus of how that happened,please give us your theory.
I will only refute with web links,and you probably would not want to read that much.
After all there must be 2 or 3 viable theories that you fruitcakes suscribe to.
Post em up,c'mon now
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
May 10, 2013 - 05:38pm PT
I mean come on man,theres got to be something on shell,exxon,bp's websites to argue this ,Ron,Guyman, even Rick.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
May 10, 2013 - 06:20pm PT
The last gasps of the discredited catastrophists. Guys, die with a little dignity would you please.

Dr. F, that is the clearest most concise summation of the CAGW crowd i've ever heard.

Wilbeer you'll never in a million years devise a strategy to deal with me.
dirtbag

climber
May 10, 2013 - 06:27pm PT
Rick, are you in drugs? Seriously.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
May 10, 2013 - 06:27pm PT
nice response,just full of science,even you could do better than that,i will give you that much
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
May 10, 2013 - 06:31pm PT
They won't die, they'll just move on to the next over-hyped "catastrophe"--including new ones with at least a grain of truth. (And the transition from "global warming" to "climate change" was smooth--even if you don't like those guys, you have to give some credit for rebranding their "catastrophe" and milking it for a few more years.)
Nothing really wrong with "science" per se, just got to watch how much public funds we blow on it; in case anyone hasn't noticed the US isn't exactly rolling in cash these days (well we are, problem is most of it is printed or otherwise created out of thin air, or borrowed). Studying "climate change" is probably a less ridiculous waste of taxpayer money than shooting men to the moon or Mars or wherever else.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
May 10, 2013 - 06:42pm PT
Rick you are straying from the issue,i could care less about making a strategy for/about you.Show me some science /theories/hell even opinions about your agenda,i am going to fight you ,thats the way it is.
That does not mean i hate you dude,there is plenty of your kind where i live.
This would be my third bbq.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
May 10, 2013 - 06:45pm PT
if you're not part of the solution...
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 10, 2013 - 06:47pm PT
He's showing you the hook, wilbeer. Don't bite bro, THAT is an effective strategy. He even trolled that arrogant Eh Hartouni ;-)

DMT
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
May 10, 2013 - 07:36pm PT
monolith,that is awesome!
Paul Martzen

Trad climber
Fresno
May 10, 2013 - 07:39pm PT
A few days ago, Randisi posted this sensible observation.
I discovered long ago that in situations like this you should ask the people you are arguing with if there is anything that could possibly dissuade them from their opinion.

Seems to me that this rule should apply in both directions. Meaning that those studying and concerned about climate change should state what evidence would persuade them that they are mistaken and what types of evidence would not persuade them.

So, I would be persuaded that climate warming is not happening if:
1 New studies from several to many sources showed that a majority of the glaciers in the world were not shrinking or were increasing in volume and were balancing out the recorded decreases in glacier volume. Statements that glaciers are increasing without reference to actual evidence will not persuade me.

2 Temperature data from satellites and world wide ground stations that show average temperatures as decreasing or not increasing. Statements by those not involved in temperature collection that temperature and climate data are flawed do not persuade me.

3 Statements that most climate scientists are corrupt do not persuade me and seem laughable.

4 Lists of scientists who do not believe in global warming do not persuade me any more than lists of scientists who do believe in global warning.

5 Evidence about how the world is changing are most persuasive. Actually, kind of overwhelming and mind boggling. To try and think about what we might be facing and how we can possibly deal with it, is daunting.

Not that climate change denialists are of any importance other than that so many are in congress and running for various government positions. Demonstrates a major weakness in our form of government that we can not rationally deal with such a major issue.






Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 10, 2013 - 07:39pm PT
Dooooooooon't do it!

Its like arguing with.....



about Marconi.

DMT
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
May 10, 2013 - 07:41pm PT
so right DMT
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