Discussion Topic |
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BoKu
Trad climber
Douglas Flat, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 25, 2009 - 01:14am PT
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I was at a thrift store in Angels Camp, and I found an old oval carabiner marked "EIGER USA". Has anybody heard of this brand? It's obviously pretty old, and I just wonder if it has any value as a collectible.
Thanks, Bob "BoKu" K.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Aug 25, 2009 - 01:16am PT
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Ya mean my rack is valuable?
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 25, 2009 - 01:18am PT
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They were made in the mid 1970s, and are much like the SMC ovals. I may have one or two that I use for racking wired nuts. I vaguely recall that they had problems with the pins that held the gate on falling out.
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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Aug 25, 2009 - 01:20am PT
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Eiger gear is great for ditching. Never had a piece I would not leave on route.
A couple of weekends ago I spied a biner on an old pin. Been there for ages. I laughed cause it was near a bunch of new fangled sport routes that were seeing lots of crowds. The biner was a Bedayn - Now that is a collectors item.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Aug 25, 2009 - 01:24am PT
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I have many. . .
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mongrel
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Aug 25, 2009 - 01:24am PT
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Older than mid-70s for sure. I had Eiger biners just like that, around 1970 or earlier. But not a collectible. Now a Bedayan oval, maybe. One of those old ovals we used to refer to as Liberty biners (which would liberate you from your life), but I don't think it was Eigers. Might have been.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 25, 2009 - 01:24am PT
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Only half?
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 25, 2009 - 01:36am PT
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It is sometimes fun to display arcane but quite effective techniques such as the carabiner brake and the hip belay, particularly on cliffs frequented by novices. I draw the line at demonstrating body rappels and piton placement, though.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Aug 25, 2009 - 02:33am PT
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I have a number of eigers, if they will finance my retirement, then I'm all for them as collectibles. BITD they they had the rep as being total nothing, "Eiger death Biner™" was the parlance.
It would be fun, Boku, to break one with your device, and see if they really live down to their rep.
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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Aug 25, 2009 - 08:50am PT
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I'm with Tami- The Eiger Ovals and the Liberty 'biners were half the price of Chouinard
That said- throw it up on Ebay with some Collector title and watch to see what happens
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Aug 25, 2009 - 09:01am PT
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I've got a few Eigers, but they're not things of beauty so I can't picture them as collectable.
Now, the first-generation Chouinard biners are newer than Eigers, but had a more original design.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Aug 25, 2009 - 10:43am PT
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Now a biner-brake rappel, or for that matter a dulfersitz -- everybody should
know how to do those.
Although the last time I built a biner brake, using modern asymmetrical wiregates
instead of good old Bedayn/Eiger/SMC ovals, the rig looked scary and unsafe.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 25, 2009 - 10:50am PT
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The only novel thing about the Eiger biners was the anodized colors on them (red and blue). The only other anodized biners around at the end of the sixties were the orange SMC and REI versions. I still carry a very faded red Eiger on my old Dolt piton nut tool.
When I first went into the Summit Hut in Tucson back in 1970 to buy some hardware, I bought five Cassin steel ovals, five SMC's and five Eigers. I keep the Eiger around to retain that memory. They aren't da kine however and boy did those suckers stretch open with ease, even under body weight!
Certainly collectible as few biners were available BITD. If you happen to have some that are in mint condition, then you might have some real value. Beyond that, toss your little goodie into the Ebay and see what you can haul up to the beach!
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Aug 25, 2009 - 11:10am PT
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Hey there say, the Eiger lockers were the kine! The regular Eiger biners may not have been as quality, but the lockers were bitching. I loved mine. If you got some Eiger lockers, I'll buy them from you. Use em on my climbing wall or some such.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Aug 25, 2009 - 11:17am PT
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A big selling point for Chouinard biners was that, unlike Eigers and their ilk,
you could open the gate under body weight. That was a key feature for aid.
A Colorado company, CMC (?), also made a blue-anodized oval biner in the early
70s, with the same dimensions as other ovals. The CMC biner added a new feature,
however -- a sort of cowling on the gate that supposedly gave much better minor-
axis strength, a weak point for other ovals.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 25, 2009 - 11:29am PT
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That would be CMI- Colorado Mountain Industries. Do you have one of their biners to show? I can't say that I have ever seen one though the blue anodizing is totally familiar. I wonder how long they were in the biner market?
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Aug 25, 2009 - 11:42am PT
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Thanks Steve, you're right it was CMI. The only ones I ever saw were blue.
CMI also made a line of chrome-moly pitons, the first such competitors to
Chouinard (apart from the much different Leeper and Dolt designs). SMC
and Clog pitons followed later.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Aug 25, 2009 - 11:47am PT
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I'll fish around my gear closet tonight, and see whether an old CMI still exists.
I kept one for a while for dog purposes, after its gate-pin had fallen out.
Meanwhile ... this is either an Eiger or a Bedayn (pre-Eiger) carabiner, with
a Dolt hollow brake bar. Brake bars were the thing until we figured out that
a 6-biner brake was way safer.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Aug 25, 2009 - 11:53am PT
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I still have my old brake bar and in fact used it a while back for fun. Why did they go out of use? Would the biner gate fail or some such?
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Aug 25, 2009 - 11:59am PT
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Two problems with the brake bar system were (1) you were weighting the
biner in a direction it might not be very strong -- OK for body weight, but
what if a fall somehow happened; and (2) sometimes the rope would pull
sideways in a way that opened the gate just a little; you could picture worse
things happening if the wrong combination of pressures occurred.
6-biner brakes, on the other hand, are so redundant they seem bombproof
(with ovals).
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Brian Hench
Trad climber
Laguna Beach, CA
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Aug 25, 2009 - 12:08pm PT
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The 6-biner brake or "carabiner brake" is still taught to this day in the Mountaineers Basic Climbing Course as the preferred backup should one lose his belay/rappel device. While a bit of a hassle to set up, it is certainly safe and gives a very smooth rappel. Minimum number of ovals is two. The others can be D-shaped.
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Big Piton
Trad climber
Ventura
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Aug 25, 2009 - 12:36pm PT
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Have you ever wonder why you find eiger or lib. biners and not the good ones? Kinda like the hot potato. I stopped keeping racking only biners on my rack. Since one day they maybe called up for life or death duty.
The carabiner braking system was the only way to keep the rope from twisting during your rappel. I still prefer the carabiner brake over anything else. Because you can add or remove biners to change the amount of friction. Because of this I keep four ovals on my rack all the time.
During my past career of teaching climbing. I made sure every student could climb or rappel if they only had a rope and no other gear.
I don't think I would climb with a person who couldn't belay or rappel with just a rope. Of course girls get a pass, but then again I not there for the climbing ;)
MMM
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Barbarian
Trad climber
slowly dying in the OC
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Aug 25, 2009 - 12:53pm PT
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That's an Eiger with the Dolt brake bar. Eiger biners were $2.00 at my local mountain shop when I got started. Chouinards were $3.25.
I still have two. I've used them for years to attach my water bottle holder to my old framepack and to attach my chalk bag to my harness (pretty blue anodized one - or at least it was blue once upon a time). In retrspect, I'm not sure why instrust anything as valuable as water or chalk to those things.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Aug 25, 2009 - 01:02pm PT
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We're dissing the ovals, perhaps with good reason, but once upon a time they
were a great step up from those heavy, nasty-toothed steel Stubai biners.
Wonder if I still have one of those?
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Aug 25, 2009 - 01:37pm PT
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Are my Lowe 33's collectible, circa '90?
I'd say probably not. I've got a gob of them (50+) when I "upgraded" my rack to those lighter biners when they came out. Have silver ones with pinkish gates, and, also black with green gates that were reverse curved (kinda cool). I use them for bail biners now.
As far as collectable, probably the old Coonyard Alcoa's are up there. Maybe some of the early military ones, if so marked (different appeal to military collectors probably). Bedayan for sure.
ARS, did you find the Bedayan up at Alta? Pretty cool to find one "in situ". What was the pin?
Old Allain's are pretty cool too. Found a mint one in Zion on a remote backcountry route. Pristine condition. Wierd.
Maybe super old steel ones would be collectable, depending on the maker. Marwa? Wonder what some of the older models would look like.
Have a bunch of the Eigers. Remember also that they were called "death biners". So were the Bonatti ones too, for some reason...
Fun stuff...
-Brian in SLC
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Aug 25, 2009 - 01:43pm PT
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probably the old Coonyard Alcoa's are up there
The Chouinard Alcoa's were the first item of climbing gear I know of that
got recalled. Turned out that something like 20% of them from one of the
early batches were defective, and broke at well below rated strength.
Chouinard recalled them all for testing, after which the survivors got
stamped -- think I have some of those.
There was an earlier, pre-Alcoa Chouinard biner, however. Those look
most like collectables to me.
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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Aug 25, 2009 - 01:51pm PT
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Brian, yeah it was in-situ on an old soft moly Stubi pin. Found it on the Mtn Club Route up at Cecret Lake. Was really easy to spot. I figure it have been sitting there for 40 years. And as I said was really surprised that no one had found it considering all the recent activity. Must been cause it was a gear route ... hahahaha
I gave it to my partner as I have 3-4 Bedayns as well as a bunch of Chouinard Alcoas.
Chiloe - what was the stamping on the old Alcoas??
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Tom Gries
Trad climber
Olympia Washington
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Aug 25, 2009 - 02:09pm PT
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You guys got me interested -- I found a couple of Stubai steel ovals, a couple of Chouinard/Salewa asymmetric Ds, and even a Cassin symmetric D in my retired/vintage collection ... Must have found the latter - I know I didn't buy it!
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Aug 25, 2009 - 02:17pm PT
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Must been cause it was a gear route...
With fixed gear AND a biner? Shoot, son, that's an early sport route. Looks like folks had that place figured out YEARS ago...
Ha ha.
Neat find. Like that 60's vintage clog hex I found on the n. ridge of the dead snag a couple weeks ago...
-Brian in SLC
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Aug 25, 2009 - 02:25pm PT
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Scared Silly -- I'll see if I can find one tonight.
Tom -- I know some folks have had luck finding old gear on Ebay, so I
guess others must be unloading it.
If only we'd understood the "collectable" concept BITD.
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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Aug 25, 2009 - 03:57pm PT
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Chiloe, I had that conversation with Malinda Chouinard a while back. Never mind the biners, who would have thought that old wooden handled ice axes would be worth as much as they are.
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MattB
Trad climber
Tucson
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Aug 25, 2009 - 08:22pm PT
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Anyone know about "royal robbins" biners? I've got one, it is SO light, kinda scary light.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 25, 2009 - 08:23pm PT
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The Robbins biners, from the mid/late 1970s, were made from hollow stock, hence the lightness.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Aug 25, 2009 - 08:31pm PT
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Scared Silly:
Never mind the biners, who would have thought that old wooden handled ice axes
would be worth as much as they are.
Uh, how much is that? I've got this neglected old bamboo-handle job sitting in
my closet. Unfortunately from a collectible viewpoint, I wrapped the handle with
tape and actually used it on a fair number of climbs.
I don't really want to ditch it, just curious.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Aug 25, 2009 - 09:01pm PT
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But from ice axes, back to old carabiners.
(Photos shot while we enjoyed burgers & beer in our backyard this evening.)
Pierre Allain carabiners, locking and not, were designed to have near-zero
minor axis strength. I use the not-locking one to rack small wires, don't
know why I've kept the locker this long.
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ec
climber
ca
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Aug 25, 2009 - 09:16pm PT
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We used to say, "Give be Liberty and Give me Death!"
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Aug 25, 2009 - 09:20pm PT
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A tale of 4 biners: I think these represent the first 4 generations of Chouinards,
oldest at bottom. They've all been dragged up some walls.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Aug 25, 2009 - 09:32pm PT
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The oldest of the four above, a first-gen Chouinard, is stamped with the initials "BT."
That stands for Bill Thompson, a sometimes Tetons climber and UC Santa Barbara
art student (1960s) who first taught me how to belay and rappel. Bill periodically
ran out of money and had to sell his climbing gear, which is how I acquired several
carabiners stamped BT.
Anybody know Bill, or what became of him?
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 25, 2009 - 09:37pm PT
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There is a Bill Thompson who lives in Vancouver, but who came here from the US in the late 1960s or early 1970s. He would now be at least 60, maybe more. I'm not sure what he does for a living, but it's something to do with UBC, and he is a climber. If you send me a PM with a bit of information, I can pass it on to him.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Aug 26, 2009 - 03:04am PT
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I was given a prototype Eiger hex, made with stock and slung with perlon. It was never used and the guy who gave it to me said he got it in the mid seventies. i will try and get a pic if I can find it in the storage.
It looks brand new, and I have never seen another one in my days of searching.
Anybody know about these?
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Aug 26, 2009 - 03:46am PT
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I have personally never seen a Eiger hex. Cool....
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Aug 26, 2009 - 04:08am PT
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> The Robbins biners, from the mid/late 1970s, were made from hollow stock, hence the lightness.
There are two kinds of Robbins biners:
1. Robbins/Salewa which is hollow, as described above
My college climbing partner has a bunch of these.
From around 1977.
2. Robbins oval, non hollow, also made by Salewa
Says "R. ROBBINS 3000 lbs." / "SALEWA - W GERMANY"
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Aug 26, 2009 - 09:03am PT
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There are two kinds of Robbins biners:
I think both Robbins designs were the first attempts at making lighter-weight
carabiners, a concept that was ahead of its time (though these two specific
designs both had weakness).
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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Aug 26, 2009 - 10:14am PT
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Here are three biners showing a bit of history:
Left to right, Bedayn with a brake (circa 1950s), Chouinard Alcoa (circa 1960s), Chouinard Featherweight (circa 1980s)
The Featherweight came out about the same time as the Robins. Very ligthweight, enough so that many did not trust them.
RJ - The eiger hexes as I remember were solid - can not remember if they were symmetric or asymmetric. I used to have a couple but sold them along the way.
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hooblie
climber
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Aug 26, 2009 - 11:11am PT
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those hollow robbin's were the mainstay of my rack. rolled out of modesto with three dozen of them,
piloting a vw van one handed and giddily flopping one of those ovals like a vegas card shark.
don't know which makes me queezier, the thinwall at the bow of that van, or the image of a leeper hanger slicing thru that biner.
paradoxically, i lugged some case hardened 11.5mm cord around. (stratos?) never doubted that my whillans trumped a swami.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Aug 26, 2009 - 11:27am PT
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don't know which makes me queezier, the thinwall at the bow of that van,
or the image of a leeper hanger slicing thru that biner
Useta seem so easy to shrug & not see the risks. Is it just that we got older,
or did the world change too?
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Aug 26, 2009 - 12:03pm PT
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Mighty Hiker:
There is a Bill Thompson who lives in Vancouver, but who came here from the US in the late 1960s or early 1970s. He would now be at least 60, maybe more. I'm not sure what he does for a living, but it's something to do with UBC, and he is a climber. If you send me a PM with a bit of information, I can pass it on to him.
There was an earlier discussion about several climbers with this name, but
looking back on that I'm not sure who was who.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Aug 26, 2009 - 01:20pm PT
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Roc said "The eiger hexes were equalateral weren't they? And solid? No lightening holes?"
YEp that's the one, the stamp "Eiger" is offset at a slight angle. It is a six sided hex.
Damn, alot of stuff to go through but I will get a photo.
What year did they begin manufacturing the hexes?
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BoKu
Trad climber
Douglas Flat, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 27, 2009 - 12:29pm PT
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So, what is the relationship between Bedayn and Eiger? Did Bedayn make carabiners under his own name, and then adopt the name Eiger? Or what?
As for my thrift-store Eiger biner, unless anybody wants it for their collection (I'll trade it for any modern wiregate), I'll probably submit it to the Break-o-tron and see where and how it breaks.
Thanks, Bob K.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 30, 2009 - 04:49pm PT
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here's a 'biner from my historical stash...
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Aug 30, 2009 - 06:11pm PT
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If memory serves -- and that's a big IF, more knowledgeable folks should jump in here
it was the Chouinard/Salewa biners like Ed's pictured above that were once subject to a
recall.
The recalled ones were all tested, and if they passed (I heard that almost 20% did not!)
they were returned to the owners with a stamp. One of mine has a clear "tested" stamp.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Aug 30, 2009 - 06:19pm PT
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Others, however (I think in the first round of testing), were stamped with a much less
distinct "T" before the 2200kp label. You can see the "T" right before the "2" on this one.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Aug 30, 2009 - 06:33pm PT
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On other Chouinard/Salewa biners in my closet, the "T" for tested has been obscured
by normal-use scratches, so that I can't even be sure it's there.
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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Aug 30, 2009 - 11:42pm PT
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Interesting, I did not know about the Salewa being tested. Most of the Chouinard gear started being tested in the early 80s. I have a bunch stoppers and bashes marked tested via a sticker that is on the swag and under the shrink wrap.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Aug 31, 2009 - 10:57am PT
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Maybe Don Lauria or someone else here who worked with Chouinard in the late 60s
(early 70s?) can fill in the true story about those recalled biners.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Oct 27, 2009 - 10:09pm PT
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Here is the Eiger Prototype hex #5, I do not know the year but the hex is in perfect unused condition. The friend that gave it to me got it in 73-76 in C4.
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Blinky
Trad climber
Hillsborough, NC
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Oct 27, 2009 - 10:24pm PT
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I remember Eigers and Libertys being pretty sub-standard compared to Chouinard. Haven't seen'em in a long time. I have an old Bonatti I keep my nut tool on.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Oct 27, 2009 - 10:51pm PT
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Chiloe: Yes on your input on tested Chouinard binners!!
In 1973 Bruce Franks, (currently the boss at Asolo/Lowe USA) sold me a rack of Chouinard D's that were stamped tested. He was leaving Moscow Idaho to become the first ever Camp 7 rep and was "lighting his load."
He explained that there had been a recall and test. He sent his batch in and got them back stamped tested: on the gates.
I was not aware of the smaller T test batch.
I suppose this makes any of the original untested Chouinard/Salewa D's from that period: "dangerous and collectable."
Damn! I don't have any!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 28, 2009 - 12:31pm PT
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Does anyone know who founded Eiger equipment and where the company had a physical location? Those of you in the biz back then, (like Lauria or Fritz) what year did Eiger enter the marketplace? I made my first Eiger purchases in 1970. As the Eiger offerings were fairly limited, I wonder if the gear itself was made in the USA as stamped or elsewhere?
Two RR biners of the three that carried his name. The most recent is a solid body offering (upper biner). The main problem with hollow carabiners from a liability standpoint is bending and buckling under load when clipped into awkward fixed pitons. A tube deforms over an edge far more easily than solid rod stock. Beyond that, the production cost in such a fussy design likely made the price point too high.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Oct 28, 2009 - 04:04pm PT
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Steve: I can't help you with Eiger history. I got into climbing 1n 1969 and climbing retail in 1973. I used to own one anodized Eiger that I kept with my boating gear.
I do recall that the first Chouinard rep in NW, Dale Day, had previously worked for Eiger and he was a S. Cal. boy. Dale was in Portland, last I knew: reping footwear to shoe stores.
I do have another Robbins binner to add to your photos. This was the solid one stamped 3000 lbs. that came out late 70's. I also have the identical product: stamped Salewa W. Germany on one side and 3000 lbs on the other. Which leads me to believe that Robbins was "private labeling" existing Salewa items. Both weigh 53 grams, while the hollow robbins is 44 grams.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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But I feel so manly when I break them with me bare hands!!!
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Well now-----we (Mr. Grossman & me at least) are still hoping that Lauria or -----------someone-----will tell us about Eiger----the company?
Then we will move brightly on to the "Royal Robbins climbing gear thread."
My favorite Robbins quote from a mid 70's newletter: "This importing stuff is really a can of annelids."
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Nov 13, 2009 - 03:30pm PT
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Took a while to find out more about Eiger USA history. Bruce Franks from Asolo & Lowe finally supplied to me the fact that Eiger USA was owned by Mike Sturm.
As soon as I did the Goggle search on that-----of course I ended up right back at SuperTopo where Ed Bannister had answered the question all the way back in Sept 2009.
From Ed Bannister on this thread;
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/948137/Gear_History_what_did_EB_stand_for
Mike Sturm, who originated the Eiger brand in the US
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 2, 2009 - 01:25pm PT
Mike Sturm was quite a guy, he had Stanley and later his son Peter Brozek in Pasadena make the Eiger and later the Liberty carabiner, what a piece of junk. When I went to work for Liberty as Technical product manager, I had KC Putnam deal with Brozek, I did not want to be associated in any way with that carabiner, and yes, if you still have any, take them off your rack.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Mar 22, 2010 - 01:09pm PT
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I didn't notice that anybody had posted one of
these rarities:
I guess I got my two bucks' worth out of this 'un!
Probably more like $1.25
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Apr 12, 2010 - 03:00pm PT
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Here's an ancient biner not too many of you have: a blue-anodized CMI, ca. 1970.
It had the oval shape of an Eiger, but a unique hooded gate to improve the minor-axis
strength (a well-known weakness of Eigers and other designs). Also it was a pretty
blue color, among the first such anodized biners.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Apr 13, 2010 - 12:17am PT
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I found my missing "highly collectable" Eiger biner. Thought it was on my "river rescue-old biner rack."
Turns out it was hanging with my pitons.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Apr 13, 2010 - 01:39am PT
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The locking Eiger carabiners were the bomb! Anyone have any they want to sell? I'll buy them for good money, however much that is I don't know.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Boulder Creek CA
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Apr 13, 2010 - 02:11am PT
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Five Decades
Eigers, Bedayns, Chouinards, SMC, etc; but lost my army steels, Gerry, and Holubar. How about a Bedayn stamped YC that Yvon dropped on me.
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Barto
climber
Minneapolis, MN
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Apr 13, 2010 - 10:09am PT
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A. The Liberty/Eigers seem to have had edges machined to the sharpness of a katana.
B. In 1980s Hobo Dan tried to outsmart me by trading me 10 Libery biners for three of my Chouinard "death biner" screwgates, the kind with the tin sheath that "locked" down over the hinge. I resisted. I am a genius, or what?
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Apr 13, 2010 - 01:09pm PT
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Hey Fritz,
That Forrest gear sling is in pristine condition. How old is it?
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Apr 16, 2010 - 10:11am PT
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The "goldline" thread reminded me of something. See that faded-blue CMI biner that
I posted previous page? That picture was taken a few weeks ago. But if you look closely
at the photo below you can find the exact same carabiner (4th from top center, with
yellow tape), laid out with others of its kind at Gibralter Rock in 1969.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Apr 16, 2010 - 11:58am PT
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I had three original Chouinard biners from my rack in the early 70s. Does anyone have a handle on the relative timing given these markings?
Chouinard 1700 kG USA
Chouinard USA 2100 Kg
Chouinard Alcoa 7075
This is the mix of my working rack in the mid-70s in addition to the three Chouinards (I sent all of them to Ken Yager)
REI D 2
Everst oval 1
Rei oval 1
SMC D 1
SMC ovals 15
Eiger ovals 7
Eiger locking 2
Bonati small D 3
Bonati large D 3
Army ovals 3
Clog D 1
Black Diamond ovals 2
Gerry oval 1
Robbins 3000 lbs 1
California oval 1
Bedayn 2
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Apr 16, 2010 - 12:08pm PT
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I am not sure that I have ever seen that diverse a collection of carabiners on one persons working rack! A regular grade school drama production...everybody gets a part! LOL
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Apr 16, 2010 - 12:30pm PT
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You have the grade school right. I couldn't afford Chouinard or Robbins and couldn't afford not to use any found gear.
I picked up some biners somewhere that had two hatch marks on them. So I added a third hatch and called them mine. Later Bridwell and I were climbing together, and he asked if I had added a third hatch to some of his missing biners.
When I was going through my gear last year, I found a well used biner with a red marking tape on it. I peeled it off and found a neatly stamped "reject" under the tape.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Apr 16, 2010 - 12:38pm PT
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Why some dutiful employee would even bother to stamp "reject" rather than recycle the pup is beyond me!
Biners were marginal enough back in those days! LOL
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Apr 16, 2010 - 12:48pm PT
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Someone suggested that "reject" might have been a good way to mark one's biners. In this case, I was the third owner; the second surreptitious owner.
I really liked Royal's biners when they came out: light, wide gates, ovals. Dick Erb, Chris Vandiver and I were playing with them one evening at a RockCraft session. I held the gate open with my fingers and pushed it sideways with my thumbs, past the catch. The brand new biner now had the gate sticking out into space. I showed it to Royal as a joke. He was usually poker faced but he freaked out. To make amends I pushed it back until it snapped into its original shape.
So does anyone know about the early Chouinard biners?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Apr 16, 2010 - 01:02pm PT
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The Royal Robbins variable closure carabiner! The horror, the horror! LOL
I bet RR was seriously bent!
A good friend of mine, John Fowler, worked at BD back in the eighties when they were developing the Black Prophet ice tools. He was uncommonly hard on his equipment while mixed climbing and when the techweenies asked him why he wasn't swinging company tools, he calmly walked over a horizontal slot in the building (much like the standard pocket low on Staiway To Heaven) and blithely snapped the head right off of their pride!
He extracted the wrecked tool and with a sigh and a Magnus sneer stated that "they break" and returned to his business as the hive erupted!
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Apr 16, 2010 - 08:04pm PT
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Roger: I have been suffering through a biz road trip this week and I am away from my collection of Chouinard catalogs and gear. However I do have some relative dates for earlier Chouinard biners.
Chouinard made his own Carabiners from 1957 to 1968. I am sure there were different runs of these. I own some that only say Chouinard, but one sold on EBAY that said Chouinard on one side and 820 Alcoa 7075 on the other.
Steve Grossman: started a thread that grew and grew and has much Chouinard binner info on it. http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=382806 Classic Ice climbing Chouinard catalog 1968
Here is a Steve quote from that thread:
Prior to the flat sided Chouinard modified D (1974) that was made in great numbers, I have seen at least 4- 5 earlier versions. One clear indicator of age is the growing size of the stamps over time on biners and angles. They start very small at first and get larger with each generational design modification.
In my own history notes I have this:
1968-1972 they went to a new style "D" that Salewa made in Germany. It says Chouinard/Salewa on one-side and 2200 KP on the other. Initially these were not tested for strength, but later ones were tested and stamped tested on the gate.
1974 carabiner production went back to US and I think----stayed here. These carabiners had Chouinard USA in raised letters. I think the reverse side says 4000 lbs.
By the late 70’s there were several models of Chouinard carabiner on the market.
Sorry! I don't have more notes on the subject at present.
Also re the Forest Gear sling photo with Eiger carabiner: all I remember is having it for sale in my outdoor shop in the mid-1970's and never selling it. I finally took it home as a 2nd sling.
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okie
Trad climber
San Leandro, Ca
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Apr 16, 2010 - 08:31pm PT
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When I was a lad in the '70's those Liberty biners were the cheapest I could get my hands on. Still have 'em, and some Eigers, and other assorted ovals that still get used occaisionally- I never weight my gear anyway- too chickenshit for that...
Several years ago I bought some used ovals from the Wilderness Exchange in Berkeley. They came with a disclaimer sticker on them in the form of a skull and crossbones with the warning: "used gear, not for climbing." Those biners are identical to many old Chouinards and SMC's that I had on my rack already and I get a perverse kick out of using those "death" biners with those skull and crossbone stickers.
Funny how any truly cool biners I ever had on my rack, such as original Chouinards and the like, have had a way of disappearing over the years...but I never put anything under a glass case...with a pressure sensitive alarm...
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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May 17, 2014 - 04:54am PT
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Cool pictures.
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miwuksurfer
Social climber
Mi-Wuk
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May 17, 2014 - 11:20am PT
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Funny this thread popped up. Just found one on a climb a week ago. Biner wouldn't even open. Probably been there twenty years, hanging from a bolt twenty feet up an offwidth.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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May 17, 2014 - 05:26pm PT
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As Tami intimates upthreads, twice at least:-), the strength of the Eigers was less than desirable. In the best configuration, end to end, WHEN NEW they tested a thrilling 1800 lbs. Less than most modern biners take right on the gate.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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May 17, 2014 - 05:32pm PT
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You could stretch them almost to point of contact by hand...
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johnr9q
Sport climber
Sacramento, Ca
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Aug 25, 2015 - 06:47pm PT
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Can anyone tell me about this carabiner? One side is stamped US and on the other is a line and beside the line is a T and under the T is an S with a line between them. Under that is a 66 on top of each. It is made of steel
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Aug 25, 2015 - 06:57pm PT
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Army surplus
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johnr9q
Sport climber
Sacramento, Ca
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Aug 26, 2015 - 07:00am PT
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Any idea what is written on one side: "a line and beside the line is a T and under the T is an S with a line between them. Under that is a 66 on top of each"
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Scole
Trad climber
Zapopan
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Aug 26, 2015 - 10:23am PT
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The only biners I have ever broken in a fall were Eigers and Libertys. Its amazing any of us survived climbing with that junk. Even as clearer biners Eiger's were weak.
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