The Hulk: requests from Hoover Wilderness

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Messages 41 - 57 of total 57 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
okie

Trad climber
San Leandro, Ca
Aug 22, 2009 - 04:44pm PT
In some areas that have a really super topo, climbers tend to bunch up a lot, consequently making a tempting target of opportunity for the authorities. As a group, nowadays climbers are a cross section of society exhibiting a wide range of behavior. Some heavily used areas will inevitably become fouled... I applaud the efforts of those who bat clean-up.
As for permits...that system doesn't work well for blue collar weekend warriors who just want to send something before dragging their tired arse back to the jobsite on Monday EARLY...
I've always been at odds with any authority that tells me where I can and can't be at any given time. There is a lot of grey area when it comes to that sort of thing, like what is camping? What is overnight travel? Are we really talking about a CURFEW, a la martial law? Why can't I sleep in my car in a legal parking spot? Why is it illegal to sleep outside in the great city of Santa Cruz?
By the way, isn't Yosemite a people's park?

The Chief

Trad climber
From the Land where Mogols still roam!
Aug 22, 2009 - 07:43pm PT
As if all this just started yesterday!

This crap has been ongoing for several years now at the Hulk and other Eastern Sierra areas.

Most of the violator's are the folks/key players that SHOULD be setting the example for the entire community to follow. You know who you are. But I guess you're exempt from all this "respect" stuff because of your name and who you are. You are entitled....right?

Go clean up your shet and stop this crap.

This same blatant selfish ego disrespectful attitude is spreading to other backcountry "Designated Wilderness Areas" in the Eastern side. So many of you here on ST praise and condone it, over and over again when the FA's & TR's are posted.

Respect for the designated Wilderness...right!

When the "Man" finally comes down on us all and imposes regs & restrictions that are in affect in the Whitney area, in many other zones, don't all start crying foul and disgust for the "Man".

He didn't do it.

The above post says it all... "As for permits...that system doesn't work well for blue collar weekend warriors who just want to send something before dragging their tired arse back to the jobsite on Monday EARLY... ".

Who gives a ratsass how I do it and don't tell me that I can't... "Send it!"

I am also getting tired of hauling out weekend "Blue Collar" wagbags and food/trash bags from the MR, Iceberg Lake and UBS Lake because some are too lazy to carry em out. 28 so far this season. And the local Ranger's (Dave Kirk etal) have hauled out more. In the past three weeks alone, I have run into several "groups" coming out of the Iceberg area sharing their jubilation of doing the East Butt. Did not see nor smell one wagbag off their packs. Perfect example of this blatant lack of "respect" I speak of.

Just remember, "The Man" didn't do it....

But.. "Don't tell me what and how to do it!"




What really sucks about this whole thing, I live here in Eastern Sierra and am constantly doing my best to interface with the USFS LE's and BC Rangers to keep them from throwing down the hammer. Obviously, they are getting very tired of this shet as well. I am beginning to sympathize with them 100%.


It's really starting to get old and very pathetic.....


"Don't tell me what to do!"
bergbryce

Mountain climber
Oakland
Aug 19, 2010 - 11:35am PT
bump for a good thread
franky

Trad climber
Ford Pickup Truck, North America
Aug 19, 2010 - 11:47am PT
nice job Jesse and everyone else involved. It is good to bring light to all of this. i've never been up there, but i think with some added awareness that mess can be cleaned up. Glad the NFS got Yosemite involved. Despite my problems with the valley, the climbing rangers do good work, and the climbing policies are very reasonable. When i finally get out there, i'll be sure to leave some extra room in my pack to carry stuff out.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Aug 19, 2010 - 12:03pm PT
Thanks to Jesse et al.

(Wow, 44 posts and no one has blamed gym climbers yet. That may be a record).
weschrist

Gym climber
left sac
Aug 19, 2010 - 12:09pm PT
Thanks Jesse.

I appreciate your attitude and approach on this issue.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Aug 19, 2010 - 12:14pm PT
Thanks Jesse.

Crimpie, I blame Gym climbers and their CATS!!!111666


(but seriously..cat food? what am I missing)?
SeanH

climber
San Mateo, CA
Aug 19, 2010 - 12:50pm PT
Once again, King of the East Side The Chief gives his $.02 cents about how he doesn't care about anyone but him (i.e. east side locals).

Jesse sounds like a good guy, so I hope he can take one message to his superiors, bosses, the USFS, whoever... modernize.

You say a lot of people don't bother with self serve permits? When I climbed Matterhorn a little while back we stopped by the office in Bridgeport to get our permit. They were out the forms. Well that was a nice waste of our precious morning time.

The internet exists, as do printers. Let us get our permits online, and end this "bullshet" as Chief says of making us jump through hoops to go outside.

Also, I personally do not believe in these limits, and quotas. Yosemite is arguably one of the most beautiful places in the country, and it receives MILLIONS of people per year. So why limit trailhead entries to 8!! people a day in some of these other spots. It's not the government's job to determine what crowded is...if places like the hulk really do end up with big crowds, than climbers and wilderness users should be able to make the decision for themselves that they don't like it, and go elsewhere.

Saying that you don't want to limit the amount of people back there to 8, just the number of people that enter per day to 8, is doublespeak. It should be obvious that many users will want to enter on Friday, so it is obvious what the policy does.

So far the only big complaint or "issue" I really hear about from climbers is litter. This is an individual crime/offense, something that no permit system will magically stop. They don't close down city blocks because people litter in an alleyway that resides in it, why is this different.

A lot of climbers talk a big talk on this board when it comes to politics, yet when it comes to this permit crap, they seem to be a-ok with....
Credit: SeanH
tonesfrommars

Trad climber
California
Aug 19, 2010 - 01:26pm PT
Cheers to Jesse.
Thank goodness for people with calmness and a proactive spirit.
guido

Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
Aug 19, 2010 - 01:34pm PT
Interesting contrast to see the two different approaches to dealing with the problem at the Hulk and in reality any and all impacted areas in the Sierras.

Jesse the Ranger and our buddy the Chief. Both are concerned about the problem, they just have different ways of describing and dealing with it.

Get ready in the future for your daily quota memorandums on climbing in the Valley and Meadows.

Hey, maybe even a moratorium on guidebooks?

If Bogey were alive and into climbing and it was 50 years ago: "Permits, we don't need no stinking permits."

Alas, times have changed.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Aug 19, 2010 - 02:46pm PT
Humphry Bogart was in Treasure of the Sierra Madre? huh?

Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Aug 19, 2010 - 05:15pm PT
from the troller of sierra madre:

"All right," Curtin shouted back. "If you are the police, where are your badges? Let's see them."

"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that sh#t-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Aug 19, 2010 - 05:17pm PT
tony can you please explain the cat food?
cultureshock

Trad climber
Mountain View
Jun 28, 2012 - 12:27pm PT
Bump for hulk season and taking care of the Hoover Wilderness!

 Luke
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jun 28, 2012 - 06:48pm PT
I trained really hard to do Red Dihedral in good style, C2C. I wouldn't have minded bivying near the route, I just hate heavy packs. I am training hard again to do P.V., C2C, with a partner who is also working his ass off. Next season we will work our asses off AGAIN to do another route in the mountains, and someday I hope to train so hard and become so fit that I can also climb Airstream or Venturi or another hard line.

I would like to see climbers collectively hold a higher standard to style in sensitive areas. I could have probably hung my way up positive vibes last season, or fixed some lines or worked sections over some months. Probably this season I could pull a few 11+ pitches off with work, if I hung on them and rapped in and ticked the right holds and had my gear beta perfect. I know my partner could knock off at least the majority of a 5.12 route there in a year, he is incredibly fit (not to mention young) and motivated. But those things make more sense in Idyllwild, or better yet Owens. There are hundreds of weekend warriors like me that want to go up and enjoy these beautiful places. If you have to thrash the place to make your ascent a possiblity, IT ISN'T AN ASCENT. You didn't climb sh#t. Not there.

Don't work a route above your limit so you can brag on line that you totally sent Red Dihedral, bro. Climb in a style that allows you to not leave an impact aside from chalk and these cliffs will be what they should be, pristine and adventurous.

I appreciate all the work the locals do up there and I feel like a piece of sh#t for not making an effort to join the cleanup, because as much as I think I am not making an impact on some scale I am... we all are. Lets make it less K?
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jun 28, 2012 - 06:58pm PT
Good job on RD. the clean up was in 2009.

Did you guys see any cats up there?
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jun 28, 2012 - 07:06pm PT
Are there human waste and water quality issues up there?
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