Summit Rock Raptor Closure

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Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 2, 2009 - 06:53pm PT

In case you weren’t already aware, Summit Rock on Skyline Boulevard in Sanborn-Skyline County Park has been closed to public access, according to signs posted there and at Indian Rock “to protect the sensitive habitat and wildlife found there.” This is due to a pair of Peregrine falcons that are nesting in a cave near the appropriately named route, “Glob of Sh_t” (5.10c) on the Lower Tier. However, breeding season for Peregrines lasts, approximately, from February 1 to July 31st, and Santa Clara County Parks appears to intend to make this closure permanent for as long as Peregrines inhabit the area. The language authorizing the closure has now been worked into the Santa Clara County Parks Trails Master Plan, which can be accessed via the following link:

http://www.sccgov.org/SCC/docs/Parks%20and%20Recreation%2C%20Department%20of%20%28DEP%29/STMP%20ISMND%20no%20Maps.pdf#xml=http://www.sccgov.org:80/sccsearch/ui.jsp?ui_mode=answer&prior_transaction_id=4734&iq_action=6&answer_id=16777216&highlight_info=4206811,69192,69219&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sccgov.org%2FSCC%2Fdocs%2FParks%2520and%2520Recreation%252C%2520Department%2520of%2520%2528DEP%2529%2FSTMP%2520ISMND%2520no%2520Maps.pdf

This document, which you'll notice Ranger Miles Standish of Castle Rock SP regards as "unprofessional", also contains ominous language such as “currently there is no prohibition on rock climbing, so rock climbers currently access rock formations at Sanborn”, which may imply that climbing and bouldering at Indian Rock may be banned as well in the future. Also, there is absolutely no reference in the Trails Master Plan to climbing as a legitimate activity at Sanborn-Skyline County Park although climbing and bouldering have gone on at Summit Rock and Indian Rock for at the very least 40 years. In fact, some of the only Yosemite-style crack climbs in the whole Bay Area are situated at Summit Rock. Climbers and climbers groups (BayAreaClimbers.com and REI to cite only two) have organized numerous collective efforts over the last 10 years to clean up the garbage and glass at Summit and Indian Rocks, which, at the very least, demonstrates a commitment to good stewardship of the natural resources found there.

To the best of my knowledge, the Peregrines were first noticed at Summit by climbers sometime in May 2008. Then, later on, unofficial looking signs appeared at the descent trail to Summit, warning climbers and hikers about the danger of being buzzed or attacked by the nesting raptors. Only now County Parks has installed a pair of signs at the beginning of the 0.4 miles trail leading from the Summit Rock parking lot to the rock itself that warn that citations will be issued to anyone accessing the rock itself. There is another similar sign at the beginning of the trail to Indian Rock across the road from the main Castle Rock parking lot.

There is now a meeting schedule sometime next week where climbers will hammer out a cohesive response to the closure under the auspices of the Access Fund. Closing Summit to climbing during the nesting season is one thing, but closing the rock to all climbing all of the year violates public precedents, which typically re-open climbing rocks after the nesting season ends, July 31st.

You can voice your opinion on this issue by contacting the following individuals at Santa Clara County Parks:

CONTACTS

http://www.sccgov.org/portal/site/scc/contacts

Trail Master Plan Contact:
John Falkowski, Project Manager
Santa Clara County Parks and Recreation Department
298 Garden Hill Drive
Los Gatos, CA 95032
(408) 355-2232

Jane Mark
Senior Park Planner
Phone: (408) 355-2237
Email: Jane.mark@prk.sccgov.org

Metka VC
Parks and Recreation Commission
Phone: (408) 355-2216
Email: Metka.Valh@prk.sccgov.org

Matt Anderson
Park Ranger Operations
Phone: (408) 355-2225
Email: Matt.Anderson@prk.sccgov.org

It is important to note that it appears that no wildlife biologist was consulted regarding the extent of this closure or its length. Why not just close down the Lower Tier at Summit duing the Peregrine nesting season? Also, although there are already 4 guidebooks in existence describing the climbs at Summit, no climber or climbing group was included in the planning process by County Parks. The mountain bikers group, R.O.M.P., however, seems to have been especially effective lobbying the planning process so that many miles of hiking and riding trails are to be opened up to mountain bikers in Sanborn-Skyline County Park.

That summarizes the situation, but please feel free to add any other details to my description of this closure order.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Jul 2, 2009 - 08:08pm PT
I'll edit this post later, but regarding our upcoming meeting at kev's, maybe we should keep all the meeting details (date/time/who's coming) there so this thread doesn't get bogged down with insignificant crap.

just a suggestion. This thread should have details of what is happening.

If you want to attend the initial planning meeting at kev's go here;

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=806861&tn=80
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jul 2, 2009 - 09:16pm PT
hey there say all... bump for climbers... and for kev's house...

Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 3, 2009 - 03:18am PT
Since Chris Mac is supposed to send this link around in his monthly (?) SuperTopo newsletter, perhaps you should include directions to the meeting at Kev's house here? Just a thought. Might be better if all the info is in the same locations.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Jul 3, 2009 - 10:07am PT
I'll let kev do that, not sure if he wants them on the interwebs...

He's away climbing this weekend, prolly Shuteye.
NikDF

Trad climber
Bay area, CA
Jul 3, 2009 - 11:41am PT
I cannot make the meeting, but I did send this email. It is not perfect, but if we can all make them aware of how many of us there are and how important this is to us then maybe we can get somewhere. I hope this works. Ill keep my fingers crossed that we can get somewhere

To those in charge of the parks.
I am writing in response to a very disturbing trend that the climbing community has become aware of in the park areas on skyline blvd.
I have been visiting Summit Rock, Indian Rock, Goat Rock, Castle Rock, and the surrounding areas since I was a little kid. In that time, I watched the Lions Caves area closed "Temporarily" (this was 10 years ago). I was told over and over that this was because someone needed to assess the environmental impact. There has been no such assessment, and when I have asked, I have received rude responses and simply been told "it's closed." The climbing community has bee patient and in fact, one of the more environmentally responsible groups out at the parks (many of us bring trash bags when we climb and leave the place cleaner than when we came).
Now Summit Rock has been closed for Peregrine Falcon nesting. This is fine, except that it was done without consulting a biologist. There are falcon closures at climbing areas across the country. Climbers in general adhere to them and most of us support them when they have been outlined by an expert. What is not fine, is that it is closed indefinitely. These falcons have a nesting period that lasts roughly from February through July. The closures everywhere else also last for about the same length of time. I asked a ranger about this, and his response was only that If I were to go there, I would be ticketed.
Can you explain to me why the parks here throw blanket closures onto public property with little to no real reason? Why is there no effort to work with the user groups on finding a solution. The Bay Area climbing community is very large. I understand the impact on the area that the growing number of users creates. However I would expect OUR parks to work with us on developing a solution and instead the groups become alienated.
To be frank, Rangers have been harassing climbers for years. I say harassing, because it extends far beyond normal regulation and stewardship. I have had rangers attempt to search my climbing pack for "anchor installation gear" which I do not even own. I have had them literally come out of the bushes off trail, stop me, and question me as to my intentions, methods, and if I was smoking or had drugs on me. It has been insulting, irritating, and wrong. OUR tax money pays for these parks and more importantly the stewards salaries, and to be treated like second class citizens is not ok.
In the Santa Clara County Parks Master Plan, the only mention of climbing is that it is currently not prohibited. This language worries me and others. Why do hiking, equestrian, and mountain bike user groups have representation in the literature and climbers are thrown in as an afterthought. People have been climbing here for 50+ years. Longer than mountain bikes have existed. Also, why would you have to mention it is currently allowed. Is there a plan for making climbing illegal?
I would like a response to these questions. Based on my experiences, I have little faith that you will respond or care, but if you do, the climbing community is more than willing to work WITH the county in assessing environmental impact, creating regulations that work for all, and finding and working on a solution to the increased use and impact on the area without closing it to those who love it.
I appreciate your time and await your response. Please help those you serve to find a solution. We have been patient, but we are tired of being marginalized and treated as a second rate user group. There are great groups that have had much success working with local governments across the country. The biggest one is The Access Fund (http://www.accessfund.org/site/c.tmL5KhNWLrH/b.4861253/k.BDBB/Home.htm);. Contact them. They have dealt with many of these problems before and will work diligently towards a mutual goal.
Thank you for your time
Nikolai Daiss-Fechner
Climber, Hiker, Mountain Biker.
kev

climber
CA
Jul 6, 2009 - 11:02pm PT
All,

The meeting will be next week on wed at my place. Email me through the taco stand and I'll get a hold of you with directions, details, etc.

My life's been a bit hectic of late but i'll be on top of this in a week or two once things settle down. We've talked to the Access fund and will form a plan next week. If you can't make it I'm sure we'll meet again.

Everyone that's gonna be there start posting up on this thread so I can get an idea of the head count.

kev
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Jul 7, 2009 - 09:12pm PT
sorry, mates I gotta bump this.

E-mail kev if you're going, he'll give directions.

oh and it looks like we'll be at Castle Rock Falls this Saturday if y'all wanna talk then.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Jul 10, 2009 - 03:35pm PT
This event grows nearer.

E-mail kev for directions.
kev

climber
CA
Jul 10, 2009 - 03:55pm PT
Yo

All I will email the directions out monday PM once i've got everyones contact info. The place is 5 blocks from downtown mountain view. I'll be home at 6 so come over whenever after that....We'll BBQ around 7 and get to work on this over cold beers. If you've got issues with burgers or cheap steaks you should bring your own food. I'm prolly won't crash until midnight ish for whatever thats worth. BYOB (there will be some but often I run out...)

So far the head count is Bluey, me, bruce, 2 jasons, and mucci.

Come on people suck it up and give something back to the community and help us deal with this. ESPECIALLY YOU LOCALS (like us)!

Bluey, you're gonna hate me but I was just ordered to goto Shuteye so I'm a no go on CRSP tommorrow. But it sounds like we we're three so that should be ok. I call you later.

Off to the land of Bagalaar!

kev
Robja

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
Jul 10, 2009 - 07:23pm PT
Hey folks, Weds are bad for me so I'll try to catch up at another one! Maybe we'll see you out at CR Falls on Saturday.

Rob
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Jul 13, 2009 - 12:21am PT
Bump for change!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Jul 13, 2009 - 11:20am PT
Bump for Wednesday night!

Dr Sprock may be in attendance too.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Jul 13, 2009 - 11:23am PT
yessir.
i am bringing my lawyer, and a steak from Ditmer's.
are you prepared to go to court?
you gotta eat a lot of red meat to win a court case.


hey, that thread we hijacked got yanked!
good job!
kev

climber
CA
Jul 13, 2009 - 01:52pm PT
Dr Sprock,

If you're in email me and I'll give you directions.
There is a grill and there will be adult beverages!

Everyone,

We really do need to get some crap discussed and done here -
for those of you that have been over before this is not going to be the usual party - we've got work to do.

kev
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Jul 15, 2009 - 12:21pm PT
It's going down tonight.

Be there!
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Jul 15, 2009 - 09:14pm PT
ring, ring me when you get going over there.
i will bike over there in 4 minutes flat, jim ryan style.


my friend's dad used to own the el calderon apts, so i can tell you some stories about that neighborhood.

is there an apt number?
or is this a house?
thanks and syotr

oh cool.
the bike path!





kev

climber
CA
Jul 15, 2009 - 09:26pm PT
Doc,

I just emailed you...

kev
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Jul 15, 2009 - 09:28pm PT
got it...
nosytlot

climber
Jul 18, 2009 - 01:19am PT
Just had to sign up to voice my support, and applaud all of your efforts. I am a fan of Summit Rock and am really dissapointed about its indefinite closure. That rock is such a joy to climb and play about, such a shame.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 18, 2009 - 02:43am PT
Well, Nosyslot, the names and addresses of the relevant decision makers are listed up above. Why not try writing them some blistering letters complaining about the indefinite closure? All sounds kinda bogus to me. Who's the senior wildlife biologist who signed the closure order? Who indeed!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Sep 8, 2009 - 12:28pm PT
Me and Sprock went to do some bouldering at Indian Rock (Castle Rock Park) and noticed they have a newer Summit Rock Closure sign.

Essentially it indicates that Park Service personnel are 'monitoring' the nesting birds and will assess the re-opening of the area based on the status of the nesting birds.

Maybe BS, but it's something I guess...
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Sep 8, 2009 - 02:02pm PT
It is closed to all, from what I gather.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 8, 2009 - 02:16pm PT
There is no justification for closing a Cali climbing area for Peregrines beyond August 1st at the outside. Anything beyond that is someone just not understanding the biology.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2009 - 04:48pm PT
You notice on the sign that County Parks is talking about "protecting the habitat", which seems to give them a license to shut the whole place down indefinitely as long as the possibility of Peregrin nesting exists. Just a power play to shut the whole place down indefinitely, which of course reduces parking along the Skyline. The South Skyline Property Owners Association definitely does'nt like like people climbing at Castle, Indian and Summit. They're constantly raving about threats of arson and breaking and entering their property. Interesting too how Stu Langdoc, who used to be the self-appointed head of the so-called "Castle Rock Climbers Committee", is also on the board of directors of the SSPOA. Obviously, all those groups - State Parks, County Parks and the property association - are working together behind the scenes to make it extremely difficult to climb along the Skyline. Climbers as a group are just caught in the middle.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Sep 13, 2009 - 10:24am PT
We'll have to get the group together again soon, gather our collected thoughts and bring them to the Park Service.

If nothing else it'll let them know people are watching and are willing to take action if necessary.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 4, 2009 - 03:15am PT
So absolutely nothing has been done about the Summit Rock Raptor closure? Not even an irate letter on Access Fund logo stationary? Pretty lame after all the tough talk!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Oct 4, 2009 - 01:16pm PT
Hey, uh, Bruce, weren't you a no-show at our Summit Rock organizing party???

just sayin'....
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2009 - 01:36am PT
Just like everything else, if you want to get it done, do it yourself.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Oct 6, 2009 - 11:18am PT
Bruce we were scheduled to get back together soon, it's just that with the awesome weather everybody has trips planned and is gone having fun.

Can you blames us?

Did you see the more recent signs indicating the Park would evaluate the site and possibly reopen it?

Anyway, we haven't given up on the project, just got distracted. You should come to the next meeting.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2009 - 02:50am PT
Yes, I saw the sign with the talk about re-evaluation of the closure, but it sounded kinda flakey to me. I guess I better come to the next meeting. By then, it'll be raining anyway. I think the real problem is that County Parks and State Parks are being pressured by the South Skyline Property Owners Association to reduce the number of people using Summit, Indian and Castle Rocks. Same reason NO PARKING signs have been posted every few feet all along that section of Skyline Boulevard.
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 11, 2009 - 02:54am PT
Hey Bruce, que pasa? It seems that there should be someone in know on this. Maybe you should try to get a small local newspaper to get involved on this. Maybe they can push the right buttons.
Dodo

Trad climber
Spain/UK
Oct 11, 2009 - 10:04am PT
I am a fan of both climbing and peregrines (and other birds). Here in the UK, the BMC and the RSPB work together in instituting sensible climbing bans on areas with nesting birds, invariably just for the duration of nesting and fledging, can't there be an equal level of co-operation between climbers and wardens in the USA?
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 13, 2009 - 02:48am PT
The big problem, Dodo, is that peregrine nesting is only a pretext being used by Santa Clara County Parks to reduce visitor usuage at Summit Rock. In the last analyis, they'll use any excuse to keep people off the rocks along Skyline Boulevard whether it's valid or not.
Reilly

Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
Oct 13, 2009 - 03:13am PT
Dodo,
For reasons perhaps rooted in recent human genetic mutation US land managers have adopted a very confrontational us vs them approach. Not only have they lost sight of who they work for but they also doggedly refuse to acknowledge both common sense and any research they arbitrarily deem unacceptable. There are absolutely no standards to be found over here except in terms of cynical hypocrisy. Falcons nest on tall building in many cities today but if the arbitrary rules extant in the national parks and forests were applied to the urban biosphere many people would be prohibited from going to work every day. Clearly the falcons haven't gotten the message that they are supposedly deathly afraid of humans within a mile radius. I also marvel at the hypocrisy of prohibiting hiking beneath a thousand foot cliff with an eyrie atop it yet it is ok for biologists to rappel down and manhandle chicks just to further their research goals and job security.

For the record my ex is a wildlife biologist of no small repute so I have seen how the game is played from within as from without. It is just more big government.
Dodo

Trad climber
Spain/UK
Oct 13, 2009 - 04:38am PT
Thats very sad, I don't think it would be tolerated in the UK, this is the access page on the BMC website, if you go to the individual crags on the RAD page you will see that all the bird bans run at most from Feb to July, even if the birds are a very rare species.
http://www.thebmc.co.uk/Pages.aspx?page=14
Slater

Trad climber
Central Coast
Oct 13, 2009 - 11:41am PT
Good job Bruce! Thank you for this. Let's keep the public precedent going. The birds get what they need, and we can get on the rock. No need to close it down totally. Pinns and Yos don't, so why do it here. Bump...
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Dec 2, 2009 - 01:43pm PT
Here's the sign as of 2 weeks ago...


Sensitive habitat and threatened wildlife???

...bull$hit!
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2010 - 04:09am PT
The organization to get in contact with about the Summit Rock peregrines is the:

Santa Cruz Predatory Bird Research Group
100 Shaffer Road
Santa Cruz, CA 95060
Tel (831) 459-2466
Fax (831) 459-3115

These guys are the ones who are observing and banding the peregrines at the San Jose City Hall and who are also watching the peregrines at Oracle in Redwood Shores. They are the ones who could make a scientific case based on hard evidence for the re-opening of Summit Rock to climbing on a seasonal basis. I don't think they are aware of the presence of the peregrines at Summit and would certainly like to know about them.

Hard as heck to find an email address for them, but I did leave message today on their answering machine. Imagine they would be very interested in the Summit Rock birds.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 9, 2010 - 06:25am PT
falconet _ @ _ ucsc.edu
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2010 - 05:29pm PT
Prof. Glen Stewart is the director of the Santa Cruz Predatory Bird Research Group. His email address is:

gstewart@ucsc.edu

I just sent him a letter inquiring about the Access Fund, the Summit Rock working group, and the SCPBRG partnering to effect some kind of compromise solution to the Summit Rock raptor closure issue.

"falconet@ucsc.edu" wouldn't work for me.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2010 - 03:29am PT
Professor Stewart emailed me today and stated:

"I think there is good precedent for allowing climbing during the portion of the year when the rock is not in use by peregrines--essentially, August through December. Falcons begin courtship in January, lay eggs in March, fledge young in June, and cease to defend the site sometime in July when the young have moved on. To the best of my knowledge, routes in Yosemite and Kings Canyon are closed for only the portion of the year that falcons are present, and some (all?) routes are left open until biologists confirm that they are being used. Perhaps this would be a useful compromise to pursue at this site."

We are scheduled to talk further when he returns from some lenghty travels that are to begin next Tuesday.

From what Professor Stewart says above, it certainly sounds as though Santa Clara County Parks Department is trying to BS us. Their closure certainly doesn't seem to be based on the habits of Peregrine falcons.
Wack

climber
Dazevue
Jan 10, 2010 - 06:52am PT
"Interesting too how Stu Langdoc, who used to be the self-appointed head of the so-called "Castle Rock Climbers Committee", is also on the board of directors of the SSPOA."

Please show a little sympathy for Stu. Life has been difficult for him since Miles retired. It's winter, cold and now Stu doesn't have a place to warm his nose.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2010 - 04:33pm PT
Professor Stewart sent me the following email reply this morning:

"I would be happy to visit the site sometime this spring, Bruce. But without seeing it, I believe the closure is unprecedented (year around) and would urge you to reference the way other parks have addressed this (with our endorsement). Unfortunately, a key contact in Yosemite, Jeff Mauer, died in a climbing accident last fall and I am not sure who would be best to contact now about the way they handle it. With a little time, I can find the biologist at Kings Canyon where the "Monk" is subject to closure when falcons nest there. There are probably other examples that I am not aware of--places where the climbing community has worked with park mgt as you are trying to do for an equitable solution. --glenn"

Pretty good news. At least something is finally happening on this front.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Jan 10, 2010 - 05:40pm PT
Those good news, Bruce.
R.B.

Big Wall climber
Ripped from Oysters
Jan 10, 2010 - 06:19pm PT
First, I am not an attorney, nor do I live in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia; I have meet with the USFS in the past about bolting and Wilderness areas. Let's just say that it's like "the horse with the blinders eating the hay." (government agencies see Black and White ... and no grayscales)

However, he's my penny's worth of advice on this peregrine thing.

Through the Freedom of Information Act

Request via certifed mail return receipt requested ... to the government agency contact information you can find on the posted sign.

Request certified copies of the following information:

1) Biological Study that lists the areas in questions.
2) The county or state ordinances (or resolutions, code, etc.) that lists the areas in question as "closed"
3) Look at the history of the agencies decisions. Remember, there is a difference between government Law vs. Policys that are set by "interpretation" of a comprehensive plan or document.

you may be prepared to challenge the closures based on the authority to do so based on ???? Joe rangers arbitrary decision because they saw a bird there ... heck make them PROVE it!

And lastly, last time I heard the Peregrine is no longer a "listed" endangered species ... check federal websites to see what species are listed in the climbing areas.

Also, be willing to challenge the closure in court ... because you can't sue the goverment unless you have been harmed, (meaning arrested or ticketed) ... then you can sue (go after) them based on their decision making.

If they are pulling the regs out of their rear ends, then they will be left with just that flapping in the wind.

Just a suggestion, easy for this armchair mountaineer to do.

I am not advocating violating a legal law or regulation here, but I am encouraging a little bit of homework before you act or do anything!

Wheres the Access committee when you need it?

FYI - Granite Mountain in the Granite Mountain Wilderness in the Prescott N.F., Arizona has a seasonal climbing peregrin closure ... I believe from Feb 1st to July 15th (not sure this hasn't changed) This is a Federal Closure.

     just food for though.


bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Jan 10, 2010 - 07:54pm PT
R.B., good info. The Access Fund is involved in this matter, it's in it's preliminary stage right now. They are 'probing' the situation. I can tell you Bruce and myself have talked to them about it. They are helping!
R.B.

Big Wall climber
Ripped from Oysters
Jan 10, 2010 - 09:48pm PT
Blu ... Glad to give the free advice ... but would caution that what I said above is the "Big Guns" approach.

I have found that it is best to work personal with whomever is the decision maker ... do what you need to do to educate them ... You often will strike a compromise between the two sides "more flies w/ honey than vinegar" ... but be prepared to pull the trigger on the big GUN if you need to.

It is sad that GOVT often puts everything else over people ... We have rights as taxpayers to use public lands and when the GOVT takes away those rights without due process on the decision making and the aftermath ... it's a crying shame! Maybe a reflection of the times we live in.

Good Luck!
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2010 - 03:10pm PT
Actually, the agency involved in the closure is Santa Clara County Parks Department, not the Federal government. The Access Fund regional coordinator involved in this case is Paul Minault and he's an attorney in San Francisco. He's consuled taking the talk and negotiate approach with County Parks, RB. I get a sense that the reason County Parks closed Summit is that it harmonizes real well with the Sempervirens Fund's vision of the Skyline Ridge Area as a bio-coridor and "people-free" zone if you will. There's big money behind amalgamating all the State and County Parks along the Skyline and US9 (Big Basin etc.) into a giant 210,000 acre area forming a bio-corridor from the Skyline to the Pacific. The agencies up there regard climbers, with their penchant for exploreing and developing outlying crags, as a bunch of nasty, buzzing flies in their eco-ointment. That's just my personal opinion though.

I've sent all of Professor Stuart's emails along to Paul so at the next meeting of our Summit Rock working group Paul can tell us how to better coordinate our approach to County Parks. Don't think it's quite time for a civil disobediance test case. I sense they won't really be able to kick Professor Stewart off of Summit and if climbers are along helping him with his assessment of the situation, we'll have some leverage that can't be easily denied.

Incidentally, there's a new article on Castle Rock out in the latest issue of Bay Nature magazine that makes it sound as if climber-Ranger relations are just ducky up there. As a donor and contributor to Bay Nature, I think I'm going to write a letter to the editor pointing out some of the contradictions and ironies buried in that story. But that's a whole different kettle of fish!

By the way, R.B., I don't think there ever was any wildlife biologist consulted about the peregrine closure. Think County Parks just did it to be nasty. You'll notice on the closure sign that the word "climbers" is never used. Instead they are referred to as "users" as if to suggest that climbing isn't recognized as a legitimate activity. I notice that State Parks and County Parks will do anything but say "climber" or "rock climber" as if the very word sticks in their craw (no offense to the peregrines!).
karodrinker

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Jan 11, 2010 - 04:56pm PT
I for one can't wait to tackle all the routes at summit rock. Before we all climb there once it reopens, can we spearhead a climber based clean up of this ravaged location? How do we get all the paint off the rock? The glass needs to be cleaned up as well. If we climbers are there more often, maybe less vandals will abuse the area. Good luck, and don't give up on the valley of stone. I want to try the 5.10 offwidth siezures palace. What's it like Bruce?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Jan 11, 2010 - 05:04pm PT
How do we get all the paint off the rock?

Sandblaster!

I have heard UC Santa Clara used to sandblast Guadalupe's Roadside rock.
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Jan 11, 2010 - 06:36pm PT
The last clean up was about 3 years ago. It's actually not too bad right now relative to how bad it has been in the past. The graffiti however is another story....There are chemicals specifically targeted for graffiti removal (and prolly not too environmentally heinous) and I am sure if it (Summit Rock) were reopened and someone would donate the $ for the chemicals that the labor would be free.

Alot of the glass problem there occurs at night/dusk when there are no climbers there due to parking restrictions or late afternoon during the week when there are few or no climbers there. Although they will make passes through the parking lot and ticket you near and just after dusk, they rarely check out the area late at night which is when I suspect the local punks are f-in up the area. Basically a larger climber presence wouldn't help (but a cleanup sure wouldn't hurt). Another interesting fact is that there used to be a large oil drum garbage can that the a-holes did use when they didn't toss their crap over the cliff. Unfortunately along with the wonder save the bird closure they pulled the thrash can - friggin county idiots...

kev
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2010 - 07:00pm PT
"Seizure's Palace" is nice after you get into the OW. It's going out the rattly fist crack to get there that's the real bugger. Also depends on if you lead or TR the thing. There's a moment at the start on the lead where you could hit the deck if you don't place the pro just right.

Luckily for me, I didn't lead it: Mike Hernandez did and still talks about it to this day.

Reopening the Valley of Stone is going to take an act of the Almighty I'd say. It's going to be a long, long time given the level of hostility of the State's Park rangers and administration.

Why not M&Ms and the Pole Cat Cliff? Absolutely no reason on earth they should be shut down other than pure meanness.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 11, 2010 - 07:19pm PT
RB, that's actually not such great advice and taking an advesarily line is not likely to do anything you couldn't accomplish by other means and it also won't do anything to enhance climber / land manager relations.

If there is a Peregrine closure its because some raptor biologist has advocated for it based on the site being a known nesting location. There is pretty much no likelyhood that a raptor closure would be arbitrary or in effect without a raptor biologist being involved with the process - you just need to figure out who they are and try to work with them. Also, authority for the closure is available under migratory bird statutes and state law regardless of the Peregrine's ESL status - it's pointless to challenge them in court as you'll simply bring down the weight of the Audubon Society on climbers in the process and that's legal and political trouble that climbers definitely don't need.

The best route to go is to find out who is managing the Raptor closure and find out if the site is actively monitored during the closure. Down Cali way there really is no need for a closure past July 15th or August 1st at the very latest. You can also get involved with the monitoring of the raptors on the site if it is being monitored or possibly even learn to do it yourselves.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Jan 11, 2010 - 07:28pm PT
Why not M&Ms and the Pole Cat Cliff?

Are they closed? I climbed 'electric...(something)' at Pole Cat a couple of years ago. That's right underneath the trail right?

It wouldn't surprise me if the 'party-kids' are still going out to Summit despite the closure. The signage never stopped them in the past, prior to the bird closure.
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Jan 11, 2010 - 08:05pm PT
healyje,

You should check out this thread in full and search the taco for other summit rock closure threads. I'm not going to re-detail them all here but suffice it to say its not a temporary closure not does it follow any standard raptor closure standards. I think then (after seeing the whole story) what has been said here might make more sense...

kev
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2010 - 02:46am PT
bluering, M&Ms and Pole Cat Cliff are technically closed, but no one is out there monitoring to keep anyone off. Both of these cliffs are supposedly in the San Lorenzo Nature Preserve, at least according to the State Parks Castle Rock map. I think you can get to M&Ms without walking past one of the no public access signs, so does that mean it's okay to go there? I think so, but the Rangers probably don't.

There are all kinds of holes in the No Public Access rule within the Nature Preserve. In the version of the Master Plan adopted back in 2001, there is no prohibition against "free roaming" in the outer reaches of the park. What does that mean exactly? There's "No Public Access" to the Nature Preserve, but "free roaming" is allowed there? Your guess is as good as mine.

It's just a document that lets State Parks do anything they want to do, as they see fit.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 12, 2010 - 06:07am PT
I read through this and the other thread so a couple of comments:

1) Lots of mis/disinformation on Peregrines and Peregrine/Human interaction. Climbers induce territorial and defensive stress in Peregrines and will cause them to abandon nests before eggs are laid, before chicks are hatched, and more uncommonly before chicks have fledged. Peregrine adaption to urban environs is significantly differernt from behavioral, territorial, and defensive (stress) perspectives, they don't interact with humans much, and they have a very high mortality rate in cities.

2) From google maps satellite view it's hard to tell, but Summit rock doesn't appear to be a very large formation. If it is small, then a complete closure would be the norm as opposed to a partial closure.

3) Confirm whether the closure is for Peregrines, and if it is, whether a raptor biologist was involved or consulted. If they were, find out who. Again, there is no justification for a Cali Peregrine closure past August 1st and I'd argue July 15th from what I've seen of the NorCal fledging dates the past five years.

4) You guys need to sort out your issues - bad rangers, agro adjacent homeowners, parking issues, trail planning, general wildlife closures, Peregrine closures, baises against climbers, etc. I hear a lot of mixed ranting - maybe lots of it is legitimate - but mixing it all up versus dealing with them as individual issues isn't going to be doing you any favors.

5) Either attempt to be a bit more detached and less angst-driven / advesarial when working the issues or work with experienced AF staffers and lawyers who can be a bit more objective. Have you contacted Paul Minault (Bay Area Regional Coordinator), Jason Keith (AF Policy Coordinator), or Joe Sambataro (AF Access Director)?

[ P.S.: And yes, my local crag is similarly shutdown for a Peregrine closure from February 1st - July 15th. In 2009 the chicks fledged late so we didn't open until August 1st and our NW rains pretty much shut us down by October 15th - so we had a two and half month season for the year. And trust me, no one wants to climb there every possible day of the year more than I do - it's why I'm involved there. ]
Slater

Trad climber
Central Coast
Jan 12, 2010 - 11:13am PT
healyje - you're hired!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Jan 12, 2010 - 11:30am PT
they don't interact with humans much, and they have a very high mortality rate in cities.

Tell that to the one that nests every year on the top of San Jose city hall!

Healyje, thanks for your input but you haven't been paying close enough attention. Paul IS involved. So is Joe.
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Jan 12, 2010 - 12:49pm PT
Slater, Healyje,

You guys really don't know what going one here, what we've done, who we've talked to etc. I know you're trying to help but this thread is really for the locals working on this issue.... It's not an attempt to gather unsolicited advice from people who don't know the what we've done, etc.

thanks,

kev
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 12, 2010 - 12:58pm PT
Good luck.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2010 - 03:45pm PT
Peregrines also seem to be thriving and breeding nesting on the Oracle Building in Redwood Shores off US 101. If that isn't a high human traffic area, what is?

Just to keep the pot boiling, this morning I emailed the following letter to the Editor of the San Jose Mercury News:

"I am writing to complain about the blanket closure of the Summit Rock climbing area in Sanborn-Skyline County Park by Santa Clara Parks District as part of their Trails Master Plan, which was ratified over a year ago. True, there are a pair of peregrines that are nesting on the rock, but as Professor Glenn Stewart of the UC Santa Cruz Predatory Bird Group points out, “falcons begin courtship in January, lay eggs in March, fledge young in June, and cease to defend the site sometime in July when the young have moved on.” Professor Stewart also calls County Parks closure “unprecedented” and thinks that the way to handle the problem should follow the standard practice used in other parks like Yosemite and Kings Canyon of re-opening Summit Rock to climbing from August to December when the peregrine breeding cycle is over. It seems to me that County Parks’ blanket year around closure of Summit Rock and environs is simply an expedient way of avoiding having to address the real problems at Summit Rock, which are caused by bottle throwing drunks who shower the place with broken glass after dark and by gangs that use spray paint to “tag” the rocks with graffiti. Climbers have in fact staged several successful weekend clean ups at Summit sponsored by such groups as REI and BayAreaClimbers.com and, it seems to me, should not be penalized for what other lawless individuals are doing out there in the evening when County Parks in not patrolling the area. Summit Rock has been a popular Bay Area climbing destination for over forty years and, hence, is an important recreational resource in Santa Clara County."

At least, now it's a matter of public record. It also increases the likelihood that some reporters will start asking County Parks some uncomfortable questions. Perhaps, the Press and the Access Fund Summit Rock Working Group can all accompany Prof. Stewart when he makes his tour of the nesting site at Summit this spring? The more, the merrier!



healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 12, 2010 - 04:23pm PT
You guys can go on kidding yourselves about urban Peregrine behavior and survival rates or you could actually talk to 'Professor Glenn Stewart' who could explain about how Peregrines are stressed in urban and wild settings and the results. As it is, you're talking bullshit and it isn't going to help your case. Over and way out.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Jan 12, 2010 - 04:33pm PT
As it is, you're talking bullshit and it isn't going to help your case. Over and way out.

In general, that is probably the case. I'm just saying that it's a frickin' fact that SOME Peregrines have become accustomed to nesting in cities on buildings. San Jose City Hall has a freakin' camera setup to so every year people can monitor the falcon chicks progress.

It comes back every year! Apparently the named her Clara (as in Santa Clara county).

http://sanjose.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?publish_id=91

http://www2.ucsc.edu/scpbrg/falconcameraSJ.htm
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Jan 12, 2010 - 04:45pm PT
Not sure about Peregrines, but I see some sort of Hawk all the time right next to freeways and highways just about every week.

are these cooper hawks and not peregrines?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 12, 2010 - 04:59pm PT
Yes, they nest in urban settings, such as the SJCH and Oracle HQ, but note the pics - they're both boxed nests on secluded roof top ledges. Peregrines are totally visual creatures and hunt by sight against whatever visual background their environment presents. That means they visually and territorially/defensively adapt to that background and the visual movement it contains - i.e. human vehicular and pedestrian ground traffic at a distance. That in no way means they are comfortable with humans in close proximity with their eyries. Peregrines in wild settings are not adapted to the same level of background movement or human presence and will definitely be highly defensive / stressed by humans in close proximity to their nests. And again, the urban Peregrines have lousy survival rates. Last year our two chicks on the I-5 bridge ended up drowning in the river when they tried to fledge and wouldn't have made it if boaters hadn't fished them out and turned them over to the Audubon.





Believe me, I'm on your side here, and would love to climb there if I were down in SC surfing. You just need to get your messages lined up with facts and consistently stick with them.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2010 - 05:34pm PT
I have talked to Professor Stewart and he is going to visit Summit this spring with our Access Fund Summit Rock Working Group. He tells me that there is absolutely no reason whatsoever that Summit shouldn't be open for climbing from August to December period. This is the protocol used in Yosemite and Zion and recommended by the UC Santa Cruz Predatory Bird Group, which Prof. Stewart heads. They are the ones who install the boxes and do the monitoring at Oracle and the SJ City Hall sites. Obviously, the answer is to leave the peregrines alone at Summit from Feb. 1 to July 31. Then, they won't get stressed. The peregrine issue at Summit is merely a pretext being used by Santa Clara County Parks to shut the area down to climbing period. Getting a wildlife biologist like Prof. Stewart to endorse a sane policy at Summit (which he does) is the best way possible to force County Parks to re-open Summit to climbing during the late summer and fall when the peregrines are not nesting there.

Another important point to remember is that County Parks closed Summit without consulting a wildlife biologist. As usual, they did just what they wanted to do, which is to construct an argument for limiting (i.e. 'managing') climbing along Skyline Boulevard, probably under pressure from the South Skyline Property Owners Association and, possibly, the Semperverins Fund big whigs. When in doubt, look for the MONEY.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 12, 2010 - 07:23pm PT
Oh, and these comments to the Santa Clara Board of Supervisors on the Sanborn County Park 2008 Trails Master Plan don't sound like they're from someone out to shut climbing down at Summit Rock.


And here is some of the verbage in the Master Trails Plan governing the park's own trail construction activities relative to nesting raptors:


Sanborn County Park Trails Master Plan April 2008

Mitigation Measure BIO-3:

Nesting Migratory Birds:

All vegetation clearing, including trimming of shrubs or trees will take place outside the migratory bird nesting season (March 1 - July 31). If vegetation removal must occur during the nesting season, a survey for nesting migratory birds will occur within five days prior to the start of clearing or construction activities. Every attempt will be made to ensure completion of the vegetation clearing and trimming activities within the five-day period. If more than five days elapse between the initial nest search and the beginning of construction activities, another nest survey will be conducted. If any active nest(s) are detected, all vegetation clearing activities will be suspended and a 50-foot radius buffer established. All vegetation clearing activities within 50-feet of the active nest(s) will take place after the nest(s) are no longer active and chicks have fledged. CDFG generally accepts a 50-foot radius buffer around passerine and non-passerine land bird nests; however the County natural resource staff shall have flexibility to reduce or expand the buffer depending on the specific circumstances.

Nesting Raptors:

All vegetation clearing, including trimming of shrubs or trees, and/or construction activities, will take place outside the raptor-nesting season (February 1- July 31). If such activities must occur during the raptor-nesting season, all suitable raptor-nesting habitat within 500 feet of the impacted area will be surveyed for active raptor nests. If an active raptor nest is located within 500 feet of the construction area, a no-activity buffer of 250 feet will be erected around the nest while it is active to protect the nesting raptors. Every attempt will be made to protect trees and nests that contain active raptor nests. CDFG generally accepts up to a 250-foot buffer radius for raptors, however, the County natural resource staff, in consultation with CDFG, may have flexibility to reduce or expand the buffer depending on the specific circumstances such as for nests not within the line of sight of construction activity.

Implementation: Qualified County Natural Resource Staff or Qualified Consulting Biologist

Timing: During the construction phase of the project

Monitoring: County Parks Staff

The county's Parks and Natural Resource staff are clearly queuing off of CDFG mandates and guidelines relative to biological resource management.

Gavin Emmons at Pinnacles would also be a good [federal] resource.

Gavin Emmons / Excerpt from the 2008 Pinnacles Raptor Breeding Season Report:

...A peregrine falcon pair successfully nested and fledged 3 young in the Hawkins territory, marking the 4th consecutive year that a successful Peregrine falcon nesting effort has been documented at Pinnacles in the last 50 years.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 13, 2010 - 02:58am PT
Except when the Master Plan was ratified, County Parks ignored all of Arnie Wernick's comments about separate trails for mountain bikers, equestrians and dog walkers. And the Rangers are still regularly covering climber "volunteer" trails with vegetation. Just ask anyone who's visited the Tree in the Wall bouldering area further south. In fact, the Master Plan authorized dog walking on almost all the trails in Sanborn Skyline County Park. It also opened up almost 28 miles of new trail to mountain biking (much to the horror of the State Park authorities across the road in Castle Rock SP).

Ask anyone who's climbed up there: all of the agencies (State Parks, County Parks, MROSD) are openly hostile to climbers as a user group. If they weren't, they'd ban access to Summit Rock only during the Peregrine nesting, breeding and fledging seasons from January to the end of July and not enforce a year round closure. As Prof. Steward pointed out to me, such a blanket closure is "unprecedented" and does not conform to standard practices in Yosemite or Zion or anywhere else for that matter.

Prof. Stewart will ultimately recommend the course of action the Access Fund Summit Rock Group will take in dealing with County Parks.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 13, 2010 - 03:35am PT
Bruce,

I posted Arnie's comments to show that not everyone in an official capacity in the area is hostile to climbers; that his suggestions weren't acted upon likely had way more to do with the fact they were submitted six days before the final vote after a public multi-year planning process for the project.

Look, you guys can take an advesarial 'the-whole-world-is-all-against-us' stance in all this but trust me, whether it's true or not, it's going to do absolutely zero for your cause when dealing with those organizations. And when you talk about 'big whigs' and 'MONEY' you just come off sounding like a conspiracy theorist. If you think MROSD, SSA, Sempervirens Fund, CSP, Santa Clara Parks, etc. are really out to get climbing, then step up, or have the AF step up, and formally ask each of those organizations for their official stance on climbing at CRSP and Sanborn - don't dick around wringing your hands over 'they this' and 'they that' - get it in writing from each and every one of those organizations. It's all spray if it isn't in writing.

With regard to the Peregrines specifically, Stewart will be a great resource, as would Gavin Emmons, but the 2008 Trails Master Plan (TMP) Document I referenced in the post above (fixed that link) clearly shows that Santa Clara County is fully aware of those Feb-Jul raptor closure dates (from CDFG) - hell, they've got those dates in the 2008 TMP to govern their own trail construction activities. You don't really need Stewart or Emmons as you can point to the County's very own documents for those dates and the CDFG authority from which they derive. From the Sanborn County Park 2008 TMP:

All vegetation clearing, including trimming of shrubs or trees, and/or [trail] construction activities, will take place outside the raptor-nesting season (February 1- July 31).

And if you want an authoritative source that will actually carry weight with CSP and Santa Clara County, then use Carie Battistone (CDFG Raptor Biologist / CBattistone @ dfg.ca.gov) or the head of her department, Dale Steele (CDFG Environmental Program Manager / DSteele @ dfg.ca.gov) - those are the ones you should be contacting (let them know you're also talking with Stewart) - but again, Santa Clara County's own 2008 TMP references those closure dates. Use it!

P.S. Also, according to the CRSP's General Plan, it is supposed to have developed a Climbing Management Plan (CMP), if they never bothered to develop one it's their problem - formally ask for a copy of the CMP, even if one doesn't exist. It should give you guys and the AF an opportunity to get involved in that park in a more formal way.

P.P.S. And last, I understand Miles Standish was a complete dick, but if all those organizations are against climbers then there's more to the story than just Miles. Be willing to hear whatever gripes or beefs they have against climbers on an organization-by-organization basis and be prepared to address those concerns.

Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 13, 2010 - 03:08pm PT
We've been on the receiving end for years. State Parks, County Parks and MROSD have all made their anti-climber opinions well known since way back in 1996.

But our actions and behavior toward County Parks are now under the auspices of Paul Minault and the Access Fund, who've given us their full support. We're focused now on just this one point: Summit Rock is now closed year around when it should in fact by closed only during raptor breeding, nesting and fledging season from January to late July. That's it.

You don't think representatives of any climbers' organization were invited to any of those meetings surrounding the Trails Master Plan, do you? Sure climbers have a lot of gripes, but right now everyone is doing their best to do it by the book by focusing on this one issue and not deviating one inch until it's resolved. The Castle Rock Climbing Management Plan, which has been sitting in limbo for the past 12 years, is a whole other kettle of fish, however.
Jingy

Social climber
Flatland, Ca
Jan 13, 2010 - 03:17pm PT
I'd bet that this closure has nothing to do with the raptor, and more to do with Ca cutting funding for the park.

Hold on Castle Rock.. the main area may be next!!!
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 13, 2010 - 03:21pm PT
We've been on the receiving end for years. State Parks, County Parks and MROSD have all made their anti-climber opinions well known since way back in 1996.

Formally? I'd be curious to know in what written, policy or regulatory form (besides this closure) [by each of those orgs].

You don't think representatives of any climbers' organization were invited to any of those meetings surrounding the Trails Master Plan, do you?

They had public meetings posted throughout the process, but I don't have a lot of illusions around how much impact public comments would have had. Again, use their own documented awareness of the "raptor nesting season" dates to your advantage. Point out that they don't put a year-round prohibition on treework or construction by their own staff or contractors - so why climbers? Point out the phrase "raptor nesting season" and the dates in the 2008 TMP, and by all means be sure and do contact the CDFG biologists about the matter. Good luck...
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 13, 2010 - 06:50pm PT
The record of anti-climber bias is too long to post here. I'm sure there's no official document with the policy set down in writing. But I have been informed by people who should know (privately of course) that the prejudice extends clear up to State Parks in Sacramento. That's why our Group and the Access Fund is starting out small: by addressing the blanket climbing closure at Summit. The Access Fund is behind us on this by the way.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 13, 2010 - 07:19pm PT
In general, getting things in writing is what counts on the political side of accomplishing things - the spoken word and anecdotes are worthless, regardless of how real or true they are.

Definitely work the local issue, but any systemic Cali parks issues with climbing would best be dealt with by a combination of AF national / director-level resources, Fattrad-type climber-friendly political resources, and Malcolm Daly-type outdoor industry corporate resources working as a combined and coordinated whole.

It would probably be Paul's call to escalate the issue with AF if necessary. Kind of pointless of have all the Cali regional coordinators banging their heads against every park if there really is a systemic problem that needs to be dealt with.

Might also be worth talking to Fattrad about it and see if he has any resources in Sacramento.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 14, 2010 - 03:06am PT
The whole Summit Rock blanket closure matter is on the desk (and originated down to the local level) from Joe Sambataro, national director of the Access Fund, who, in turn, contacted Paul Minault. Despite all the bitchin' and hearsay, this issue is being addressed in a very professional manner (for once!).
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 14, 2010 - 03:47am PT
Bruce, glad to hear it. No problem with bitching among yourselves, you just want to keep it underwraps in public meetings and documents. Again, good luck to you all.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2010 - 05:35pm PT
Yup, things are moving along. The Access Fund has been in touch with State Fish and Game. Something's going to happen someday.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Feb 5, 2010 - 05:06pm PT
I've been loosely watching this thread for some time.
It's time for me to correct some misconceptions that have been repeated.

From September
The South Skyline Property Owners Association definitely does'nt like like people climbing at Castle, Indian and Summit. They're constantly raving about threats of arson and breaking and entering their property. Interesting too how Stu Langdoc, who used to be the self-appointed head of the so-called "Castle Rock Climbers Committee", is also on the board of directors of the SSPOA. Obviously, all those groups - State Parks, County Parks and the property association - are working together behind the scenes to make it extremely difficult to climb along the Skyline. Climbers as a group are just caught in the middle.

and October
I think the real problem is that County Parks and State Parks are being pressured by the South Skyline Property Owners Association to reduce the number of people using Summit, Indian and Castle Rocks. Same reason NO PARKING signs have been posted every few feet all along that section of Skyline Boulevard.

There is no such thing as the "South Skyline Property Owner's Association".
There is a "South Skyline Association" http://www.southskyline.org/
I am the President of the Board at the present time. I've been on the board for about 8 years. I know Stu and he's not been on the board in that time, nor in the few years before that. Stu is not a member of SSA as he doesn't presently live in our geographic area.

The SSA Board has not discussed nor taken a position on the Summit Rock raptor closure. I will bring up the issue at the next board meeting.

NO PARKING signs have been posted along Skyline Blvd for a variety of reasons. Neither State Parks, nor MROSD (Mid-peninsula Regional Open Space District), nor Santa Clara County Parks post these signs, CalTrans does.
SSA has never taken a position on these no parking signs. These have largely been for law enforcement. Closing much of the roadside to parking has certainly reduced the mischief and lawlessness up here. It also reduces hazards between cars and bicyclists. Graffiti on rocks has been a major problem up here and SSA Board has discussed this with CalTrans.

Traffic safety on Highways 84 and 35 (Skyline Blvd) have been a major concern of SSA for several years. We have had many meetings with CalTrans, CHP and others about traffic safety. The only users who've been singled out are bicyclists (concern for their safety) and motorcyclists (concern for their safety and our peace and quiet)

Castle Rock State Park and Sanborn Park are administered by separate agencies who don't always speak to each other. They should not be lumped together.

===
Now speaking for myself:
By the way, Stu is a "BITD" climber and generally sympathetic to climbers.

Local residents have no animosity to climbers nor our sport. We residents recognize that the great majority of climbers are good citizens and protective of the environment and that climbing is a reasonable use of the public lands. We'd rather climbers didn't hike across our land close to our houses or domestic animals. This need not be a problem at Summit Rock since the access from the parking to the rock avoids the neighbors. It can be a problem with hikers wandering around off trail.

Residents of this area are generally "live and let live" people, regardless of their political philosophy. That's one of the reasons we reside up here.

There is plenty of parking at Summit Rock and further south in Sanborn Park. I know these are inconvenient for Castle Rock, I'm just making the point that visitors are being accommodated as well as possible. I think users are very lucky that Castle Rock parking is allowed along the road. I often walk to Castle Rock to climb rather than drive.

Law enforcement: This is a major problem along Skyline Blvd and adjacent roads. State Park, MROSD and Santa Clara County Parks rangers are all sworn law enforcement officers with authority to cite and arrest. No different than in Yosemite.
The residents are lucky to have them around. So are climbers. They work long hours, cover a wide territory. They deal with all sorts of problems from parking citations to rescues of idiot hikers and gun carrying pot farmers (Mexican Mafia). The rangers are the law up here when CHP and County Sheriffs aren't around.
If they stop you it's not because you're a climber, they've got much bigger problems. Either you're doing something illegal or they're checking up on a serious situation. If you're doing something only "slightly" illegal (whatever that means) and they cite you, that SUCKS. It has happened. Pay the fine and complain to the management. Complain to me and I'll mention it to the management in my "official capacity".
I'm certain if we had more State Park rangers, they'd be less stressed, happier and less confrontational.

There are other members of SSA who are active and "BITD" climbers.
There are near neighbors to CSRP and Sanborn Park who are climbers (myself included).
There are also neighbors who are strident environmentalists and mountain bikers (often opposing groups). Many outdoor groups have a stake and have conflicting agendas.

I believe Fire Captain Arnie Wernick's letter quoted by Healyje on Jan 12 best expresses the attitudes of us "locals". There is of course much variety of opinion. I've climbed at Summit Rock with Arnie.

Summit Rock has a spectacular view of Santa Clara Valley and has always been a magnet for beer bottle throwers in the afternoon and long after dark. Often the climbing routes have been nearly unapproachable for the broken glass. This has been alluded to on this thread.
Summit Rock is a fairly small area. Counting the outlier boulders, Bruce's 1995 guide lists 32 climbs, many of them close together. Quite a few are excellent routes. Nothing longer than about 1/2 rope. Some are fun to lead.

There is much over generalization and anger going around in this thread. Healyje's advice is sound. You want the land managers and south skyline residents on your side.

I disagree that there's strong anti-climber bias in the public lands agencies which have been named : MROSD, California State Parks and Santa Clara County Parks. They have noisy constituents of all persuasions. Deliberately flaunting regulations/notices/Ranger requests only makes your case more annoying to them. There have recently been flagrant violations and confrontations between rangers or residents and mountain bikers and off road motorcyclists.

MROSD is governed by a board of directors who represent voters in much of Santa Clara and San Mateo counties, you can imagine the diverse constituencies for yourself. There are recent TRs here from climbs in MROSD areas. As far as I know, those areas are not closed to climbing.

and finally, my thoughts and observations on raptors.
For three years, my place (2 miles south of Summit Rock) was frequented throughout the summer and autumn by first one and then a pair (I watched them mate mid-air---AWESOME) of Peregrine Falcons. I saw them often enough and close enough (right over my house) to be certain of ID. I also saw them, more than once, fly in the evening in the direction of Summit Rock (not Castle Rock). They were at least frequenting the Summit Rock area throughout the summer.

As Healyje suggested there is likely little correlation between human interference with raptors at Oracle/San Jose City Hall and Summit Rock. If there are raptor nest sites at Summit Rock, climbing activity would be within a few feet of them.
The question is would intensive human activity that close to the sites when the birds are not in residence inhibit nesting by the Peregrines when they come back next season?

In my opinion, comparisons of Summit Rock with Pinnacles and Yosemite are shaky. There is plenty of room for nesting on the walls where climbers haven't been close while the Peregrines are away. This is not the case at Castle Rock nor Summit Rock.

Fred Glover
President, South Skyline Association
Climber
Neighbor to Castle Rock State Park and Sanborn County Park

cc: South Skyline Association Board of Directors
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 5, 2010 - 05:59pm PT
Thanks for posting that, Fred!
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Feb 5, 2010 - 07:04pm PT
Fred, thx for the insights!

Only one bit of feedback on this statement...

"Either you're doing something illegal or they're checking up on a serious situation."

Actually several of us don't do illegal things in the parks/regions, but have gotten hassled (i.e. questioned about where we were going walking down the road away from CRSP with no probable cause or reasonable suspicion). Nothing illegal about questioning, correct, but still kinda obvious we aren't growers when we walk down the road with a big pad attached to our back.

Also, the 'double parking' ticketing for both the blocker and the blockee outside of CRSP on the hwy was ridiculous for a while there. I don't go when it's crowded anymore, so not sure if that's still an issue. But even on the Summit side, I've received the 'stink eye' from LE and I'm a short haired white guy with climbing gear.

I appreciate your opinion and would just post this as something to consider where there has been a tradition of animosity between Rangers and climbers(as visible targets). As a known landowner in the area, you may not be exposed to that.

Aside from that, I, for one, welcome the insights and any support from the Homeowners along 35 that might be lent in basing a raptor closure program on good scientific research, if a closure program is justified.

In fact I think we can find a lot of common ground, e.g. we don't want graffitti painted on rocks (see tick mark threads even), and we really don't want grows or meth labs around our formations (toxic materials spilled near crags? no thx!). And moreover climber presence may dissuade bottle breaker presence!

thanks much,
Munge
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 6, 2010 - 03:19am PT
I only have one question: Why, if MROSD is not openly hostile to climbers and climbing, did a gang of rangers, apparently totally on their own initiative, strip all of the bolts out of Eddie Tharp's new routes in the Aquarian Valley one afternoon without any warning whatsoever? His routes had all been put up a long time prior to the acquisition of the property by MROSD. The minute the property was transferred to MROSD ownership, the Ranger "strippers" arrived en masse and went to work. If a reporter from the Palo Alto Weekly hadn't looked into the issue, I'm sure that every route in the Aquarian Valley and Devil's Canyon would have been removed by the "Green Devils" no doubt.

And if Stu Langdoc is so sympathetic toward climbers and climbers' interests, why in the world did he press for the closure of the M&Ms cliff and the Pole Cat Cliff? They're both right next to the trail. No where near the so-called Nature Preserve. We all know that Stu Langdoc lives in San Marino, no where near the Skyline Ridge, but that his name is prominently featured in the minutes of the SS (Property Owner's) Association. As far as I can tell, Mr. Langdoc wanted to strip every bolt that had ever been placed out of every climb at Castle. To the best of my knowledge, there hasn't been a new bolted sport route put up at Indian, Summit or Castle Rock since 1995 or maybe 1996. Why in the world does this business keep going on and on and on if there isn't some higher level pollywonk behind it?
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Feb 6, 2010 - 04:07am PT
"There is plenty of room for nesting on the walls where climbers haven't been close while the Peregrines are away."

can someone tell me what this means?

i have read, and re read it a hundred times and i don't get it.





Wack

climber
Dazevue
Feb 6, 2010 - 12:49pm PT
Both Miles and Stu are great guys and friends to the climbing community. Without their mentoring many CR climbers would have gone to the Valley unprepared for Barker interaction. Unlike Barney Fife, Miles got more then 1 bullet while Stu gets none but they let him carry a chainsaw.
Srbphoto

Trad climber
Kennewick wa
Feb 6, 2010 - 12:54pm PT
I thought Aquarian Valley had been closed for years. I remember it being mentioned in the original Bay Area climbing guide (probably late 80's). I was surprised when I heard people talking about on Supertopo.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 6, 2010 - 02:13pm PT
I thought Aquarian Valley had been closed for years. I remember it being mentioned in the original Bay Area climbing guide (probably late 80's). I was surprised when I heard people talking about on Supertopo.

Shhhhh...It's kind of a secret (except for being mentioned in Bruce's guide)

And it IS patrolled, take my word for it!
Srbphoto

Trad climber
Kennewick wa
Feb 6, 2010 - 03:20pm PT
One thing to remember about the MROSD is their lands are preserves not parks. So their mission is different than the various park department. While I couldn't find climbing (ok or not) specifically mentioned, there a couple of points (climbers trails, cleaning, bolting etc.) they could easily use to not allow climbing.

Maybe get in touch with the mountain bike group (I don't recall their name) that works with MROSD. They may have some good info on who to initiate contact on the board.

edit: I think the mt bike group is out of Redwood City.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Feb 6, 2010 - 04:12pm PT
part of the agreement between the people who sell their land to Open Space

is that the land be preserved as it was before the sale.

but, since the money to buy the land comes from local tax payers, i.e. us, they want us to be able to enjoy what we pay for.

so it is a question of balance, between the usage and preservation.

that is why it takes 3 years to get anything done, like a new trail.

now if you pay millions for land, and nobody gets to enjoy it, no good.

and the Rangers tend to error on the side of limiting access, as it is less hassle for them if everything stays status quo.

plus, they tend to be tree huggers supreme, which also affects usage.

hey, whats up with Bielwaski Rd?

it would be a fantastic mtn bike venue, is it open to hiking even?

see here:


Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 7, 2010 - 03:59am PT
The mountain bike group you're referring to is known by the acronym, ROMP, which stands for Responsible Organized Mountain Pedelers, and they're on the Web. They're the group, in fact, that successfully lobbied to have Santa Clara County Parks open up many miles of trails to mountain biking in Sanborn-Skyline County Park, including the .3 mile trail from the Summit Parking Lot to Summit Rock itself. Kind of ironic though that you can ride your bike there, but can't set foot on the rock once you dismount.

The main point about the raptor closure at Summit is that it should be seasonal, during the peregrine nesting season from January to late July, not a blanket closure all year round. Makes no sense and besides as Dr. Stewart said, it's "unprecedented", and does not conform to standard practices in Yosemite, Zion or anywhere else for that matter.

Sounds to me like the peregrine nesting issue is just being used as a convenient pretext to kick everyone, climbers and bottle throwers alike, off Summit Rock. Why? Who knows for sure? My guess is that it's funding. County Parks still hasn't got a budget to hire someone to go up and patrol Summit around sunset. But then again, who in the heck is going to monitor all the new mountain bike traffic up there?
Strider

Trad climber
one of god's mountain temples....
Feb 7, 2010 - 04:48am PT
The main point about the raptor closure at Summit is that it should be seasonal, during the peregrine nesting season from January to late July, not a blanket closure all year round. Makes no sense and besides as Dr. Stewart said, it's "unprecedented", and does not conform to standard practices in Yosemite, Zion or anywhere else for that matter.

As pointed out above, there are dramatic differences between the cliffs of Yosemite, Zion, et al and the very small (in comparison) rock formations of Summit Rock. I feel such as limited amount of rookery space available to the falcons must dictate or influence their behavior. When dealing with human encroachment on the territory of wild animals, every situation is different, maybe even "unprecedented".

I am not a fan of the current management of Castle Rock/Summit Skyline but I have no wish to see the actions of climbers dramatically effect the habitat of such wild creatures as the Peregrine without further study. I have had my run-ins with Stu and Miles as well as the local property owners surrounding Aquarian Valley and I found none of them to be friendly or accommodating towards climbers in any way. However, I do not wish my opinions of these singular individuals to influence the survivability of a handful of wild animals.

What I can not stand is the feet-dragging on this issue. If they are going to close the cliff down indefinitely then get some real work done, monitoring the behavior of the falcons and their interactions with humans and their rookery. Lets settle this once and for all dammit!

-n
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 7, 2010 - 06:25am PT
I can't think of any 'unique' or unprecedented science-based circumstances that would dictate a year-round closer for Peregrines, even for a year-round resident pair. And neither must the county otherwise their own Master Trail Plan wouldn't reference the Peregrines nesting season and they'd also have a year-round construction and trimming ban. They don't have such a ban on their own activities outside of the dates referenced in the MTP because there is no basis for doing so. They may have reasons for a year-round climbing ban, but Peregrines can't be it. A climbing closure consistent with the Peregrine nesting dates listed in the County's MTP would, however, be entirely appropriate.
Wack

climber
Dazevue
Feb 7, 2010 - 09:34am PT
"One thing to remember about the MROSD is their lands are preserves not parks. So their mission is different than the various park department. While I couldn't find climbing (ok or not) specifically mentioned, there a couple of points (climbers trails, cleaning, bolting etc.) they could easily use to not allow climbing."

Chicken come home to roost. Many of their fat cat supporters have passed away. These generous donors have allotted the funds for a plaqued bench to be built and maintained, costing MROSD nothing. Preserve management is balking at putting in these free benches because they are in conflict with their mission. So the bolts went, some mtn biking trails were closed and now their supporters benches are not wanted. Preserve users love the benches and do not see them as a blight.
Srbphoto

Trad climber
Kennewick wa
Feb 7, 2010 - 10:43am PT
They didn't seem to have problems putting plaques of people's names all over the groves in Purisima. I heard they aren't cheap!
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 7, 2010 - 04:06pm PT
Actually, the Access Fund is currently in the process of having CDFW look into the issue of the nesting peregrines at Summit. Dr. Stewart has also volunteered to go out and monitor the pair. But since SC County Parks bases their actions on CDFW, the Access Fund feels their investigation of the matter should take precedence.

The point about the strippage of Eddie Tharp's bolts in the Aquarian is that they were present before MRSOD acquired the property. If MROSD rangers simply went in there and took them out after that, it certainly demonstrates their animosity toward climbing as an activity. However, the public meetings that took place in the Aquarian in 1996 did lead to an agreement: No more bolts or moss scraping and climbing will be allowed on all climbs that existed prior to the acquisition of the property by MROSD. You can read about it in the Palo Alto Weekly (Wed. June 19, 1996), p. 26. At the present time, climbing is not banned in the Aquarian Valley or Devil's Canyon no matter what MROSD might want you to believe. Just don't wire brush or rap bolt and you can climb there to your heart's content.

Also, since California Dept of Wildlife advocates seasonal closures for raptor nesting, it sounds very much as if SC County Parks enacted their blanket ban on all climbing at Summit very much on their own initiative (i.e. interpreting the rules to match their own pre-defined biases). IOWs: They were looking for an excuse & the nesting raptors provided them with one.

Anyone who thinks California State Parks, Ranger J. Rule, Stu Langdoc, Santa Clara County Parks, SSA, and MROSD are "pro-climber" should immediately seek professional assistance from a mental health specialist. Climbers, as a user group. obviously rank far below dog-walkers, equestrians, and mountain bikers in their social hierarchy.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 7, 2010 - 04:32pm PT
Anyone who thinks California State Parks, Ranger J. Rule, Stu Langdoc, Santa Clara County Parks, SSA, and MROSD are "pro-climber" should immediately seek professional assistance from a mental health specialist. Climbers, as a user group. obviously rank far below dog-walkers, equestrians, and mountain bikers in their social hierarchy.

Again, this sort of us-vs-them talk is particularly helpful to your efforts. With regard to those other groups it's probably because they're better organized and approach the matter in a more objective manner (at least in public, such as here).
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 8, 2010 - 03:35am PT
The matter is being approached objectively, off-line, in private where things are actually getting done. ST is just a place to vent emotions like rage and anxiety that are deeply repressed in the dark underworld of unconscious. Nothing is ever "settled" here.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Feb 8, 2010 - 03:44am PT
is there a North Skyline Association, or is that all controlled by the hooch farmers?

and mountain lions?
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 8, 2010 - 05:55pm PT
The MROSD ranger gang rules that 'hood. When are they gonna put in a requition for an armored personnel carrier or a pint-sized armored car with a 2 cm gun?
Srbphoto

Trad climber
Kennewick wa
Feb 8, 2010 - 07:31pm PT
I belive there is a Kings Mountain association.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2010 - 06:04pm PT
The process seems to be working at a higher level. The Access Fund is starting to facilitate a dialogue between wildlife biologists, who will indeed be making recommendations, it appears, favorable to the interests of climbers. So, I think that Healyje is right in counseling moderation and less inflamatory language. Part of the problem is of course that up until now, climbers have not been organized to the same extent as R.O.M.P. and the S.S.A.

Good to know we're finally making some progress!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Feb 9, 2010 - 07:17pm PT
Bruce is right, people are working this and are in contact with both of us. Looks like the bigger guns are being pulled out and some things are being done.

The Access Fund's Paul M. has been VERY helpful and deserves our thanks and respect.

Healyje is doing a lot too. Thanks, dude.
rhyang

climber
SJC
Feb 9, 2010 - 07:18pm PT
Great to hear. Thanks for the efforts everyone !
karodrinker

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Feb 10, 2010 - 03:01am PT
Open it up, clean it up, crank up it! Get it done!
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Mar 11, 2010 - 03:52pm PT
Part of the problem is of course that up until now, climbers have not been organized to the same extent as R.O.M.P. and the S.S.A.

Bruce: please don't misrepresent the SSA. As I stated in my earlier post, the SSA has never taken a stand on Summit Rock Raptor Closures. Neither has SSA in the recent years that I've been on the board taken any stand on climbing issues in Castle Rock State Park. I'm not aware of SSA taking any stand on CRSP climbing at any time.

SSA has advocated often for highway safety along Skyline and the other area roads. We have not asked for any parking restrictions. We are also concerned about criminal activity, especially between dusk and dawn (as I'm sure you are in your neighborhood). The only stand we have taken is to request better enforcement of existing laws from the local agencies, particularly with respect to irresponsible driving and excessively loud motorcycles. It's in our charter to maintain positive relationships with law enforcement and public land managers. That doesn't mean we agree with them on every issue. In fact we sometimes disagree and let them know.

Fred Glover
President
South Skyline Association Board of Directors.

From my perspective: residents of the Skyline Blvd area generally favor fewer use restrictions on public land. That includes climbing which is recognized as largely done responsibly.
It's mostly SSA members who happily come to the rescue of injured climbers through the volunteer fire brigade and the Saratoga Summit CalFire station. They frequently practice high angle roped rescue.

We know that a small number of mt bikers have used our neighborhood irresponsibly. We also know they've used it illegally, including building "secret" trails.
That's a very good way to alienate the "locals".

I welcome the help of the Access Fund on the raptors closure. They are free to contact me any time, either personally or in my role as President of SSA.
Fred
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Mar 11, 2010 - 05:07pm PT
I was running yesterday on Skyline trail and did see that the gates which was closed all winter blocking trail to Summit rock was finally open.
karodrinker

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Mar 11, 2010 - 06:20pm PT
Thanks for the feedback Fred. But......

Problem solved! I went up and ate the pergrines. Made a delicious perigrin pot pie with peas and bacon. No more problems with those darn birds! Hopefully some more falcons will come soon, it's so rare that I get to feast on endangered animals. Mmmm... Reminds me of last years Bengal tenderloin au poivre. Unmatched!

Climb on!;)
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Mar 11, 2010 - 06:22pm PT
Thank god they've been eaten. Thanks brah!

kev
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Mar 11, 2010 - 09:41pm PT
Kalen
The Pinnacles Condors will be watching for you!
karodrinker

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Mar 11, 2010 - 09:50pm PT
ill eat them up too!
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Mar 11, 2010 - 10:55pm PT
these guys will always be around...so don't fall!


aq valley lookin good last sat>

dcaunt

Trad climber
Chico, CA
Mar 11, 2010 - 11:10pm PT
Look at the bright side of all this. At least now we will know where the rangers are, they will be focusing their undaunting attention on these closures, leaving other climbing areas unattended.
Let's party!
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 12, 2010 - 01:56am PT
Don't count on it, Mr. Caunt! Ranger J. Rule was out at Goat Rock this fall observing us top-roping routes in the new Goat Rock Overview area with binoculars. When I got back to the CRSP Parking Lot, there were six green meanies including Ranger Rule there to confront me about bolting issues. "Sorry guys, you're 15 years too late". Rule started ranting about a new "unauthorized" bolt he'd found on top of Goat, then warned me about speeding on the Skyline on my way home. They sure didn't like my new Bimmer! Those characters are still hanging out in the early 1990s - in their minds. No bolts are going in & they're still trying to bust for bolts. Time warp!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Mar 12, 2010 - 02:06am PT
Look at the bright side of all this. At least now we will know where the rangers are, they will be focusing their undaunting attention on these closures, leaving other climbing areas unattended.
Let's party!

I'm banking on that, Dr Sprock scoped out a new area with serious potential that is going to require a bolt or three. I ain't sayin' where though...

WTF is the matter with these people and placing a non-discript bolt where nobody is gonna notice it...unless you're a climber? WTF?

Mr. Caunt, all of your routes are awesome! The ones I can get up....
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Mar 12, 2010 - 02:19am PT
oh yeah, set me up!

hey, how old are this?

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Mar 12, 2010 - 02:22am PT
Sprock, I just bought some stainless bolts with 'enviro hangers', sand colored so ya can't see 'em.

We climb this weekend...
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Mar 12, 2010 - 02:24am PT
we might not need them, i finally found all this cool B Morris stuff>

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Mar 12, 2010 - 02:27am PT
Yeah, but it's nice to have them in the 'toolbox'.

Sweet looking rock there!
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Mar 12, 2010 - 02:29am PT
yeah, it's bolted,

this too i think,


here is the bottom half of ZPG Now, (the first pic)


this thing has some bolt routes also>


Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Mar 12, 2010 - 03:26am PT
hey Ring, here is The Mother Lode, awesome face >


bolts on this side>


bolts on this side also>


Lower Aq Falls>


Fog On:


Fog Off!

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 12, 2010 - 03:50am PT
It's clear from all available documentation related to both Sanborn and CRSP that the focus and emphasis was and is on "low impact climbing". So yeah, bolts and bolting are likely to be a problem and hot button issue. Camo'ing existing and new bolts would likely help, but maybe after all this Peregrine business some of you and the Access Fund should try working with both parks to update / develop their Climbing Management Plans (CMP) and establish cohorerent policies around fixed pro that are more to your liking.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 12, 2010 - 05:39pm PT
Think I recognize "ZPG Now"! (5.12b) and Eddie Tharpe's "Mother Lode" down in Devil's Canyon below the Aquarian Valley. A long way away from CRSP and Sanborn-Skyline County Park. Only now you'll have to confront the green meanies of the MROSD. Lots of luck!

The big problem with bolts at Castle is that State Parks has absolutely refused to develop a coherent bolting policy for R&R of existing anchors and protection bolts. They won't even talk about it. That's why the CR Climber's Committee was disbanded back around 2001. Of course, this is hearsay on my part, but it's dang accurate hearsay. Just try to talk to Ranger J. Rule about liability issues when a bolt at CRSP fails due to lack of proper maintenance. I can guarantee you he's not going to be happy about the direction the conversation is taking. This is the next big issue after the Raptor Closure. Boy are some sparks going to fly.

All I said was that until now climbers have not been organized like ROMP, SSA, or, for that matter, the Audubon Society, or the California Native Plants Organization. Didn't say anything about the policies of those groups per se.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Mar 12, 2010 - 05:44pm PT
Yeah, I've climbed 'Chewy's Lookout' on the Mother Lode. 5.10b I think. Another route is Green Thumb. 5.11 something...

The bolted rig in your picture is Chewy's I believe.
dcaunt

Trad climber
Chico, CA
Mar 12, 2010 - 06:26pm PT
Man that is some nice looking rock in those pics Dr. Sprock. Wish I was there, where?
You see, there really are a lot of other climbing areas that the ranger Rule doesn't frequent. Besides, the routes at Summit and Indian are way too exposed, good for classes and high schoolers and a bust once a week.
I lived in the day of Miles and he was a sneaky one, I haven't climbed around there since the new ranger Rule has taken over, but it sounds like he is picking up where Miles left off.
I have to dig up my old photos of Miles with a Flame thrower, and Miles handcuffing young potheads, and Miles sniffing out little dogs from girls purses, and Miles lurking around every corner of Indian rock. Oh, and Bruce with a .......mask and ......brush.
And that is why these obscure climbing areas came about.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Mar 13, 2010 - 11:07am PT
Haha! good stuff, Dave.

Feel free to post up pics of when you were on the scene. I've admired the routes you guys put up!
dcaunt

Trad climber
Chico, CA
Mar 14, 2010 - 06:56pm PT
Drugged up some old photos of rangers in action at Castle rock. These pics were taken covertly from behind the bushes. The stories of the rangers sneaking around really are true, BEWARE!




Who is that bubba brush wielding masked man?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Mar 14, 2010 - 11:19pm PT
I just got back from Last Temptation Cliff. Good times.

Damn, Dave, talk about old school...Got more?
dcaunt

Trad climber
Chico, CA
Mar 15, 2010 - 01:00am PT
Bluering, who are you? I see you making comments on all my threads. You sure seem to like my routes and that is a good thing. Do I know you? Have we climbed before?
Temptation cliff gets max sun late in the day, bet it was nice out there today. I kinda miss climbing at Castle, being in Chico its a bit far to go for the afternoon. I use to live up on skyline down off Chapman road for a good 4 years so I got a lot of time in climbing at Castle. Use to boulder there like crazy, putting up several classic problems. Maybe we should start a new thread about Castle bouldering?
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 15, 2010 - 02:02am PT
That's me wirebrushing what later became the "Domino Theory" (V4) traverse down in the Graveyard west of the main Castle Rock. Lot more jungle down there then than today. In fact, the trail runs right under the "Domino Theory" making for a crappy landing.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Mar 15, 2010 - 12:54pm PT
Dave, nah, I've never met you. Just see you name on a bunch of routes I climb.

If you're in the area and need a partner, I'm game.

Side-note: Are those Condors out at Last Temptation??? My buddy swears they were turkey vultures but these guys (about 7 of them) were buzzing us as we climbed, like the ones at the Pinns. The did have white feathers on the bottoms of their wings too.

I'll try to download a pic or two.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Mar 21, 2010 - 05:45pm PT
bluey
If you really mean Condors plural: extremely unlikely since the nearest nesting sites are in the Pinnacles. Castle Rock would be at the limit of their one day range.
They're HUGE: 8 - 9 ft wingspan
The white underwing marking is close to the leading edge of the wing
An UGLY variously colored skull but not red
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Condor

Plenty of Turkey Vultures around on warm days.
They have light underwing markings. About half the underwing is light colored along the trailing edge.
Face and sometimes top of head is scarlet.
Only about 3/5 the size of Condors. 5 - 6ft wingspan. Still very large up close!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_Vulture
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2010 - 04:05am PT
No, they're Turkey Vultures at Last Temptation, but plenty of 'em fur sur. They devoured a dead coyote up in back of "Live Monkey Brain" and it's bones are still working their way down toward the top of the cliff. You know you know the area when you can keep track of the carrion and the mountain lion kills.
rhyang

climber
SJC
Apr 5, 2010 - 03:49pm PT
The process seems to be working at a higher level. The Access Fund is starting to facilitate a dialogue between wildlife biologists, who will indeed be making recommendations, it appears, favorable to the interests of climbers. So, I think that Healyje is right in counseling moderation and less inflamatory language.

Anything us peons can do in the meantime ? I guess I should finally join the Access Fund ..
tom woods

Gym climber
Bishop, CA
Apr 5, 2010 - 04:13pm PT
Boy those shots of Aquarian Valley look cool- motherlode? Never been there.

I used to scour those hills looking for climbable rock. There's more out there than you'd think, especially once you start bouldering and top roping rather than look for short leads.




bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Apr 5, 2010 - 04:17pm PT
Here is an update I received from someone working with agencies involved;

All, Status to date, with opinion from Department of Fish and Game and waiting for outcome of meeting with Glen Stewart of the Santa Cruz Predatory Bird Research Group. Now I will need to talk to Carrie at DFG. Will also ask Don to talk with Gavin Emmons at Pinnacles. Will keep you posted.

I'll leave his name out for now. He does do work for the AF.

And Rob, the AF is doing a lot right now for us, so it wouldn't hurt to return the favor and join.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 5, 2010 - 04:59pm PT
Sounds like County Parks is still balking, however. Wait and see! In the mean time, join the AF.
karodrinker

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Aug 19, 2010 - 08:12pm PT
I want to mini trax qll the routes here, when can we get in there?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 19, 2010 - 08:17pm PT
People are still talking about it. And the AF is involved. There may be progress being made. Stay tuned. No timeline yet. But there are people working on it. E-mail me and I can forward you some of the details.

A gate may go in at the road that is closable at night to keep the glass chuckers out at night.
nutjob

Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
Aug 19, 2010 - 08:31pm PT
I miss Tree Surgeon....good times. But the glass up top was nasty.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for the positive dialog. Summit Rock was my favorite spot when I was a frequenter of CRSP.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Dec 16, 2010 - 02:20pm PT
Bluey, Bruce, Anybody, Any action on this?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Dec 16, 2010 - 08:46pm PT
Funny you should ask, Wade. Just today I received an response to an email thread we have going where someone (I'll not name unless they'd graciously like to chime in) donated $1000 to the AF for the Summit Rock project.

I've volunteered to gather a small working group to be the front-people on this to talk with local authorities, but alas, I've been busy at my new workplace working mucho overtime.

Apparently we even may have a recent young-gun law graduate that will join the group. I should contact him soon. I just found out about it today.

Anybody who'd like to join our group can. It would probably involve petitioning city/county officials to hear us out in re-thining their somewhat illegal rules. We may even have to go higher than local officials and get State/Fed reps involved.

E-mail me if interested and I can add you to our working group. The city/county is trying to play hardball but we may have found a loophole to their justification. We may need legal fees and personal support, hopefully from individuals who are more clean-cut than I.

That's your update.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 14, 2012 - 03:36pm PT
Yesterday, I visited Summit Rock with members of the Santa Clara County Park & Recreation Commission, advocates from the Audubon Society, representatives of State Department of Fish and Wildlife, and Paul Minault from the Access Fund to discuss reopening the rock to climbing on a seasonal basis to allow raptor nesting. Prof. Clayton White of BYU was flown out by the Access Fund (with matching funds from Planet Granite) to provide his expert opinion, which was, to summarize, that the presence climbers would not stress the peregrines out during the non-breeding season. Boy was it cold & wet!


It seems as though the only people who have been going to Summit Rock since the closure in 2008 are local gangs, who have been tagging all over the rock to mark out their territory:


After returning to the SC Park and Recreation Dept. headquarters in Los Gatos, the meeting that followed seemed to offer a slight possibility that Summit could be reopened to climbing during the non-breeding season. A male peregrine even made an appearance in the sky above us during the time we were discussing the matter at the base of the rock. Prof. White pointed out that the bird was not stressed by our presence there, which may have influenced the Commission to react positively to our request. Wait and see!
tornado

climber
lawrence kansas
Feb 14, 2012 - 03:41pm PT
Thanks Bruce!!
briham89

Trad climber
los gatos. ca
Feb 14, 2012 - 03:42pm PT
Thanks a lot! That will be awesome if it reopens even partially.
karodrinker

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Feb 14, 2012 - 04:53pm PT
super psyched! Lets clean that place up!
dfinnecy

Social climber
'stralia
Feb 14, 2012 - 05:09pm PT
the tagging is just obscene. Summit has always been a bit of a glass pile but I don't remember anything like that!

Visiting CRSP a few weeks back while passing through the area I was dismayed to see a bunch of tags there as well, what's up with the beige sombreros on all the rocks out by the falls and Western Addition?
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 14, 2012 - 06:16pm PT
Hmmm...What if a bunch of dirty rock climbers got together and cleaned up that sh#t?
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 14, 2012 - 06:45pm PT
After dark, both Castle and Summit have become lawless zones ruled by the local gangs and partyers. While the Rangers and Eco-freaks worry about climbers damaging the environment; they are totally helpless to stop these punks from tagging every bit of rock in sight. There is even a gold line rope installed in the cave where the peregrines have been nesting that allows them to get up there and tag. The 'sombrero' incidentally is a gang symbol. If Castle ever gets closed, it's obvious that the gangs will turn the whole area into a marijuana plantation. I bet it's only a matter of time until one of the Rangers gets shot!
tom woods

Gym climber
Bishop, CA
Feb 14, 2012 - 09:49pm PT
Wow, that's a sad shot of Summit Rock.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Feb 14, 2012 - 09:50pm PT
probably just some drunken punks,

we used to party up there back in 1970 to 73 when it was legal to park on skyline,

had a good time but never did any lameass sh#t like tagging a rock,

i'm gonna sit up in a tree with an air riffle and blast those punks in the ass from about a 1/4 mile out,

anybody wanna help?

we can make our escape down the illegal bmx trail onto sanborn, then up stevens canyon to a ranch i know run by bluey and the blue notes,

anybody like the coasters? not bmx but the band.

did they clean up the plantation supplies that wre rounded up down below california wall or are the choppers still waiting for a wind free day to get rid of that disgraceful garbage dump, wtf, over?








bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 14, 2012 - 09:55pm PT
Keep me posted, Bruce, on my pm-email.

Have you ran into the new ranger up ther yet? He's pretty cool. He climbs too.

Thanks for persevering on this sh#t, man....
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Feb 14, 2012 - 10:03pm PT
miles is back,

over...


they should but a brethalizer in the parking lot at crsp,

or maybe not,

i caught fatty taggin some rocks at summit, over...
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 14, 2012 - 10:21pm PT
Sprock, you'd like the new man in town. He's a strict, yet fair guy.

Bruce, lemme know if you need more help on this. What should I do? Even the new LEO is asking about status updates. He says he makes busts up there still. (Taggers and the like...)
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2012 - 12:32am PT
"Have you ran into the new ranger up ther yet?"

Where? At Summit (Sanborn County Park) or at Castle Rock SP?

Do you think they might be getting a real climbing ranger at CRSP?
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Feb 15, 2012 - 01:58am PT
take the train from sunnyvale to the shark tank somtime,

couple miles of siding all done up nice and pretty,

then there is the stuff rollin in to oaktown, some of it pretty decent,

Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Feb 15, 2012 - 02:14am PT
every place has it's downside,

yosemite is a climbers paradise, but then the tourons,

joshua is nice but you can't smoke weed,

well, i mean,

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 15, 2012 - 05:34am PT
Bruce - good on ya man. That's pulling it together right.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2012 - 02:30pm PT
To make a long story short, it was very gratifying to listen to Prof. Clayton White lecturing the SC Parks and Recreation Dept. about the false premises behind their blanket closure of Summit Rock. Prof. White's main point was that climbers, at least in the non-breeding season, did not stress out peregrines in the least. It is only during the nesting, breeding and fledging season that peregrines exhibit aggressive behavior toward intruders into their environment. In other words, there is no reason whatsoever that climbers should not be allowed to climb on Summit Rock from approximately late July to December; at least, no scientific reason. Of course, there are still some hardline people in the Department who would rather not pay attention to the scientific evidence, no matter what it implies, but they really couldn't disagree with Prof. White because he is the world's leading expert on peregrine falcons with literally hundreds of publications in the field.
Doug Robinson

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Feb 15, 2012 - 02:41pm PT
Thanks, Bruce!

Really cool to hear the calm voice of real knowledge raining down a reality check on the Park folks.
billygoat

climber
Pees on beard to seek mates.
Feb 15, 2012 - 02:42pm PT
Good to hear the PG money went to use. It was a big project personal project to bring Doug over and do a slideshow, I hope good results come of it when all is said and done. Next up: some big time events to fuel a privately funded budget for Castle Rock and Portola Redwoods. Keep posted. PG is aiming to do a big matching event in March, Pacific Edge a (most likely smaller scale) event in April, and I'm personally aiming to do two HUGE events in May (one in Santa Cruz and one in the East Bay). I think keeping all those skyline area parks open is imperative to the environmental health of the region. And we all know how much fun can be had if we're responsible in with our use. Lets keep up the hard work!

Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2012 - 09:19pm PT
Not to throw water on the parade, but the following are a list of some of the concerns that members of the Santa Clara County Parks Dept. raised during the meeting on Feb. 13th about the peregrines nesting at Summit Rock in Sanborn-Skyline County Parks as summarized by Paul Minault of the Access Fund. All apply to legitimate daytime recreational use in the non-nesting season:

The site
-the small size of the site makes disturbance more threatening to the birds;
-the small size of the site requires a more protective management strategy than large sites in national parks;
-the small size of the site requires closure of the entire rock; lateral or vertical partial closures would not be sufficiently protective;
-the natural (i.e. not man-made) character of the eyrie enhances the biology of the birds that reside there and, over time, of the regional population;

Disturbance
-the birds are resident, so a seasonal closure would not protect them from disturbance;
-distress calls indicate that the birds are disturbed sufficiently to warrant closing the site;
-disturbance causes significant psychological stress and a metabolic deficit;
-disturbance could cause the birds to abandon the site;
-disturbance could harm the birds;
-disturbance could cause the birds to move to another location (momentarily or permanently), thereby increasing their exposure to predation;
-peregrines have limited ability to adapt to disturbance.

Prof. White's analysis of the situation at Summit seemed to demolish each of these arguments, but we have to remember that the SC Parks Commission still endorsed them as reasons for not re-opening Summit to climbing on a seasonal basis. Prof. White did state categorically that the peregrines were not excessively stressed out by the presence of climbers during the non-nesting season. It still remains to be seen whether the Commission will accept his argument.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Feb 15, 2012 - 10:25pm PT
Prof. White's analysis of the situation at Summit seemed to demolish each of these arguments,
Is there a place we can read Prof White's analysis? Was it just verbal or his he going to write a report?
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Feb 15, 2012 - 10:31pm PT
used to walk right by the nest in the aquarian valley, both birds went nuts, but they shut up after about 10 minutes,

they are still there, been there every year for at least 2 years,

dope growers use them for natural alarm system,

if you don't believe me, venture down into that valley and head north til you hit the plantation,

the guy who shoots at climbers with the air pistol is the one splitting the profits,
what was the question?

Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 16, 2012 - 01:13am PT

"Is there a place we can read Prof White's analysis? Was it just verbal or his [sic] he going to write a report?"

Yes, Prof. White is going to write a letter-report when he gets back to BYU which will summarize his views on the subject. Think he's going to mail it to the head of the SC Park and Recreation Department. In any event, it'll get published somewhere.

"used to walk right by the nest in the aquarian valley, both birds went nuts, but they shut up after about 10 minutes . . ."

Conrad Jones, Associate Wildlife biologist at State Department of Fish & Game, would be very interested in finding other sites on the Skyline where peregrines are nesting in a natural environment. You can reach him at:

650.328.2380 or
cjones@dfg.ca

He lives here on the Peninsula, so could go up and observe the peregrines in the Aquarian Valley. In fact, as a State official, he's got some input on this issue beyond Santa Clara County. One of the points that SC Parks and Rec are using is that the nesting site at Summit is the only example where the peregrines are not on a man-made structure. If we could show Conrad that there are other peregrines using rocks along the Skyline Ridge to nest, it would prove that there are other natural nesting sites available besides Summit Rock, which is actually a pretty lousy location with a high chic mortality rate. Between the taggers, the rats, the owls and the crows, not many chicks are surviving to adulthood. For every pair of chicks that survive about 4 are dying or being eaten first. Hence, the peregrines at Summit are still rearing a clutch in September, which indicates that at least 2 previous clutches did not survive.

If a pair of peregrines selected Summit Rock as a nesting site, you can bet there are a bunch of other peregrines nesting along the Skyline. We just need to find them. That's another thing that Prof. White pointed out: the Peregrine falcon is making a big come back and there are lots of young males out there looking for places to pair up with a female and start rearing young.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Feb 16, 2012 - 01:18am PT
Thx Bruce
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 16, 2012 - 02:56pm PT
If anyone else besides Dr. Sprock has seen evidence of Peregrines nesting along the Skyline, in particular in Santa Clara County, it would be very good if they chimed in here. My guess is that beginning about three years ago, with the burgeoning Peregrine population, more and more falcons began to nest in the Tafoni rock formations in Castle Rock SP, Sanborn County Park and MROSD preserves. So the eyrie at Summit Rock is really not 'exceptional' as SC Parks would maintain. What ever happened to the 5 or 6 chicks that have reached adulthood at the Summit site since 2008? If they all survived, they must have gone off and established nests of their own, probably nearby. Would be good for our argument if anyone else has seen Peregrines up there.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 16, 2012 - 07:41pm PT
Thanks for your persistence, Bruce. Have you ran into ranger Voillet (sp?) yet? He is pretty interested in the closure. He's been busting people up there. Nice guy too!

Sprock, what area did you see the falcons in Aquarian, further down the creek from where you, kev, and I put up that route? Down the creek towards the Orange Sunshine rock?

Or more over by Eagle Peak?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 16, 2012 - 09:26pm PT
-the small size of the site makes disturbance more threatening to the birds;

This is completely valid grounds for a seasonal closure - it's irrelevant once the chicks have fully fledged.

-the small size of the site requires a more protective management strategy than large sites in national parks;

Not the size, but rather the accessibility of the site is responsible for this, but again, only during the seasonal closure.

-the small size of the site requires closure of the entire rock; lateral or vertical partial closures would not be sufficiently protective;

This is entirely likely with regard to seasonal closures; it has nothing to do with a permanent closure which is entirely unnecessary from any biological requirement.

-the natural (i.e. not man-made) character of the eyrie enhances the biology of the birds that reside there and, over time, of the regional population;

Hard to characterize exactly what is being said here. You could say that about any eyrie. All that matters, however, is that the eyrie be productive year-in, year-out and a seasonal closure will by itself insure that - a permanent closure will not 'enhance' the eyrie's productivity or contribution to the regional population.


-the birds are resident, so a seasonal closure would not protect them from disturbance;

Our Peregrines are resident at Beacon Rock which sees more tourist and climber traffic than Summit and is a highly productive site on a year-to-year basis. I can supply the name of the WDFW biologist who can confirm that fact. A permanent closure will not significantly improve the Peregrines' reproductive success.

-distress calls indicate that the birds are disturbed sufficiently to warrant closing the site;

A seasonal closure, yes; a permanent closure no.

-disturbance causes significant psychological stress and a metabolic deficit;
-disturbance could cause the birds to abandon the site;
-disturbance could harm the birds;
-disturbance could cause the birds to move to another location (momentarily or permanently), thereby increasing their exposure to predation;
-peregrines have limited ability to adapt to disturbance.

Yes, that's exactly why we do seasonal closures - to reduce stress and improve rates reproductive success. The rate of reproductive success at this site will not be improved with a permanent closure.

Again, at Beacon Rock State Park in North Bonneville, WA we have:

 a small site relative to the size of the rock the eyrie resides on (see photo below - 800' tall, would take about 10 minutes to circumnavigate if there were a clean continuous trail)

 a resident pair

 500-3000 tourists who summit the rock each DAY - even during the seasonal closure via a concrete tourist trail cut up the rock in 1913 and unaffected by the closure

 a seasonal closure from Feb 1st to Jul 15th (or longer if necessary)

 a long history of close monitoring and records of nesting and the reproductive success at the site


There is NO JUSTIFICATION for anything but a seasonal closure at Summit - if they are still pushing for a permanent closure then they are attempting to use Peregrines to justify a closure which is in place for other reasons than the Peregrines.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Feb 17, 2012 - 12:03am PT
i really do not want to disclose the exact location,

if you have been down the right side of aquarian creek, on the ultra steep trail to the bottom, you will find a divebomber male and a nesting female,

the male has freaked me on the lower slab that sits below skyline slab,

i found a route up the lower slab and went up a while back,

so i get the FFA unless somebody else claims to have done it,



Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 17, 2012 - 12:44am PT
The nesting site you describe is far enough away from the climbing routes in the Aquarian Valley that there's no possibility of MROSD using it as a pretext for shutting down climbing there? That's my major worry. But the more Peregrines we can find nesting along the Skyline, the more it undercuts the SC County Park's argument that the nest at Summit is exceptional and unique. It's actually a good sign and means that the Peregrines are indeed making a major comeback in their traditional outdoor habitat.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Feb 17, 2012 - 12:49am PT
nobody wants to hike down there because it is too steep, there is stuff to climb at CRSP that is easier to get to,

eagle peak and the pearls area are far more popular, the birds are well below these areas,

you can see them hunting at dusk if you sit on eagle rock,

here is the route i took up the lower slab, about 400 feet,

birds will bomb you on this slab, which is about a 1/4 mile below the main skyline slab,

the slanted part is easy class 4 and the rest is sketch without a line,



Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 17, 2012 - 01:36am PT
"the slanted part is easy class 4 and the rest is sketch without a line"

I was up that route years and years ago, but no bombing peregrines back then. Should send that Google map to Conrad Jones.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Feb 17, 2012 - 01:56am PT
dang,

ok, i got a new route up near big trees...



Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 17, 2012 - 03:32pm PT
I was nosing around in that area below Skyline Slabs at the bottom of the big 4th class slab years ago and found some stuff tucked away around the corner at the bottom. Short, but I guess you'd call it "a route"!

Here's a telephoto taken from West Alpine Road looking back at the general area:


Obviously there are acres and acres of Peregrine habitat along Skyline Boulevard that Santa Clara County Parks is not yet aware of.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 17, 2012 - 04:06pm PT
Be aware that Peregrine pairs are highly territorial and don't normally nest in close proximity to another pair, how close is this nest to summit?
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 17, 2012 - 04:20pm PT
7 miles to the north as the crow flies along the spine of Skyline Ridge from Summit Rock in Sanborn-Skyline State Park. IOWs: Quite a ways away from the pair at Summit. However, there's a lot more intervening territory between the two sites that would provide plenty of additional raptor habitat.

This just undercuts one of County Parks' main arguments that there is only one nesting/breeding pair of Peregrines in Santa Clara County. Obviously, this is not the case.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 17, 2012 - 04:23pm PT
That squeaks by as far enough apart - about what we have between eyries up here in the Columbia River Gorge.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 17, 2012 - 05:23pm PT
But both eyries are located in Santa Clara County, which is the main forensic point to be noted here.

I stand corrected! No, only the Summit eyrie is in Santa Clara County. The one in the Aquarian Valley is in San Mateo County. But of course the Peregrines don't care much about artificial political boundary lines.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Feb 17, 2012 - 08:51pm PT
Bruce, I have to correct you on a couple of items.
10 miles to the north as the crow flies along the spine of Skyline Ridge from Summit Rock in Sanborn-Skyline State Park
If you mean Skyline Slabs/Aquarian Valley to Summit Rock, its a little less than 5 raptor flight miles.
It's about 7 road miles from Summit Rock to Portola Heights Road turnoff.
But both eyries are located in Santa Clara County
Again if you mean Aquarian Valley, that's in San Mateo County. Skyline Blvd is the county line.

More importantly, about the only likely Peregrine nesting habitat along the entire 30 mile Skyline Blvd and ridge corridor is some crags in Castle Rock State Park, Summit Rock and Skyline Slabs/Aquarian Valley. Possibly also a few crags on the west side of Montevina Ridge.
A clarification to those of you who aren't locals. There are three land management agencies with jurisdictions along the Skyline Blvd (CA State Highway 35) corridor: Midpeninsula Regional Open Space District (MROSD) in San Mateo and Santa Clara counties, California State parks in Castle Rock State Park (CRSP), and Santa Clara County Parks for Sanborn Park (Summit Rock). There are also three counties: San Mateo (Aquarian Valley), Santa Clara (Sanborn Park) and Santa Cruz (areas surrounding CRSP)

I've found this entire thread very informative and interesting. A few years ago I had a Peregrine pair frequenting my place in the summer for about 4 years. Even saw them mate mid-air once....amazing aerobatics.
Several times I saw one or both of them fly North around dusk, past Castle Rock area and out of sight. I've no idea where they were actually nesting.
Thanks to all who are trying to work this out respectfully. There'll be another fund raiser at Planet Granite on 21 March. Hopefully I'll get to meet you (Bruce and others) this time.
Fred Glover
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 18, 2012 - 01:24am PT
I see that the San Mateo County and the Santa Clara County lines touch each other between Portola Valley and the Arastadero outback. The line seems to rise up to the top of Page Mill Road where it intersects the Skyline (CA 35). No matter, because Long Ridge Open Space Preserve (where the Peregrines are nesting) is definitely in San Mateo County. Obviously, outside the jurisdiction of the Santa Clara County Parks Department, which thinks the Summit nesting site should be closed year round because it's the only example of Peregrines nesting in the wild in the County.

I just heard tonight at Planet Granite Belmont that people have been seeing Peregrines perched in the trees in Half Moon Bay. There must be some rocks near there for them to nest in. Makes you wonder just how many Peregrines are nesting in the wild in San Mateo and Santa Clara Counties? Sounds like a timely M.A. thesis for some budding ornithologist. No one seems to have an accurate count. The other examples of nesting are all on artificial structures: in downtown San Jose and on the Oracle Building in Redwood Shores, to cite two examples. Think there were a pair nesting on the Dumbarton Bridge, but they died I heard.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Feb 18, 2012 - 04:28am PT
upper bidwell park near chico has some falcons,

they move the disc golf bucket on hole #3 to a slightly different location so that folks do not look for lost discs along the cliffs during breeding season,

so disc golfers co exist with the falcons just fine,

part time closure, same thing would probably work at summit,

castle rock falcons work both east and west of the ridge,

aquarian valley falcons work the east side only,

what about shangrela rock, any birds up there?

there is sandstone all over the santa cruz mountains,

google earth,

check along the trailway to the sea or what ever it is,


chico outsiders had to fight for 10 years but they won to keep the course open,

"Peregrines can be tolerant of human activity. However, especially during nesting season, disturbances can cause nest failures and injury to young and adult falcons. The best place to observe the falcons is from across the creek on the upper Bidwell Road from Bear Hole to the Fish Ladder (Do not forget your binoculars!).
How you can help!
We ask for your cooperation near the cliff edges during the breeding and nesting season (February – July), please:

Do not climb cliffs in this area during the breeding season.

If you hear a Peregrine vocalize (typically is a loud "kack-kack-kack-kack"), please retreat away from the area.

Keep your group to small numbers and avoid loud noises.

Observe the seasonal placement of the disc golf course (the target at Hole 3 and tee pads for Hole 4).

Please keep discs away from the cliff’s edge and refrain from retrieving errant discs that drop over the cliff face.
Your cooperation will help keep these amazing predators and their young flying the skies of Bidwell Park, and will minimize potential restrictions to recreational activities.
For additional






Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 18, 2012 - 02:53pm PT
"aquarian valley falcons work the east side only"

Dr Sprock don't you mean that the Aquarian Valley falcons work the west side only? Aquarian Valley faces the Pacific, doesn't it? Can't see them flying over to the east side of the Skyline when they have all that territory to the west of their eyrie.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 18, 2012 - 03:03pm PT
Dr Sprock don't you mean that the Aquarian Valley falcons work the west side only? Aquarian Valley faces the Pacific, doesn't it? Can't see them flying over to the east side of the Skyline when they have all that territory to the west of their eyrie.


Yeah, I think he meant west. He used to be a regular denizen out there until he bailed on me and went north to Chico.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 18, 2012 - 05:22pm PT
Well, at least the good Doctor didn't migrate to Linden in California's dreaded Central Valley! Chico at least has Chico State U. to civilize it!
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Feb 18, 2012 - 06:59pm PT
Bruce
I notice that in one of the very early posts on this thread (ca 2010) bluering mentioned Dr Glenn Stewart from the Santa Cruz Predatory Research Group. He and his group are certainly the experts on local status of the Peregrine Falcon.
http://www2.ucsc.edu/scpbrg/aboutus.htm
As you probably know, Dr Stewart and this group were instrumental in the Peregrine's recovery on the West Coast. Have you been keeping him/SCPRG in the loop? What is their take on the Summit Rock closure? It seems to me they would be the most knowledgeable experts concerning the effects of opening the Summit Rock nesting site on the local Peregrine population.

Aquarian Valley faces the Pacific, doesn't it?
Certainly. It's at the headwaters of Pescadero Creek.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 19, 2012 - 12:57am PT
Glen Stewart is already in the loop with SC County Parks, the Access Fund, and, I believe, Prof. Clayton White as well. Don't quote me, but I think Glen Stewart and his group are the ones who are going to do the monitoring at Summit (if the project gets that far). I contacted Prof. Stewart a long time ago.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Feb 19, 2012 - 01:42am PT
yeah west side, me bad,

vultures are on the east near los trancos

Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 19, 2012 - 04:49pm PT
Don Rocha, the ecologist-ranger at Sanborn County Parks, has notified the Access Fund that this year the Peregrines at Summit Rock have failed to nest and fledge any young:

"Eggs failed this year. Not sure why. Whole eggs (2) were found in the nest, 1 egg had a hole in it. We only observed this as we are not permitted to handle. I contacted USFWS who gave permission handle and gather eggs to return to USFWS and when we returned to the nest we could not find the eggs. Something or someone got to them. They were tucked away in the opening, so more fragments may have been inaccessible to humans.

Birds are still using the area and displaying the same behaviors as previously reported. Park staff is performing the monitoring. We are seeking assistance form Audubon on monitoring.

Of course, we will bring all the stakeholders into the conversation."

So, currently Summit Rock still remains closed to climbing pending formulation of a permit system to climb there. No mention, you'll see above, about Glen Stewart and his Santa Cruz Group doing any monitoring. Using Audubon Society to monitor the site seems like a clear conflict of interest since members of the Santa Clara Audubon Society also sit on the Santa Clara Parks and Recreation Commission. They are on record as opposed to allowing climbing at Summit Rock.

Yes, gang, it's still dragging on! The broken eggs Ranger Rocha found seems to be in keeping with what Prof White said originally about the Summit Rock nesting site being marginal. Would be interesting to see whether any Peregrine chicks have ever actually reached maturity at Summit Rock.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2012 - 02:44am PT
Bump for the birds
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2012 - 05:13pm PT
However, in the same letter to the Access Fund, Ranger Rocha added:

". . . park staff are moving forward with the investigation of alternatives for limited, restricted access during the non-breeding season as directed by Mr. Courtney (i.e., permit issuance and monitoring)."

So there is at least a glimmer of hope. I think Mr. Courtney is the new supervisor of Santa Clara County Parks and seems to be a moderate regarding this issue.
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Oct 21, 2012 - 11:34am PT
good to see you plugging away at this, bruce.

have you tried to get any of the yosemite folks involved? their resident ornithologist, sarah, would probably be a very good "friend of the court" here. ranger jesse can put you in touch.

fyi, i'm pretty sure it was a peregrine i saw near san antonio falls on mt. baldy a few weeks ago. the birds are doing well.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 21, 2012 - 03:38pm PT
Tony 'Da Bird': The Access Fund has tried, as have others, to get Santa Clara County Parks to interface with the Rangers and naturalists in Yosemite about the Peregrine program up there. So far, SCCP has resolutely refused to do so. They won't even bring Prof Glen Stewart from the UC Santa Cruz bird group to do the monitoring at the Summit site. You can see from above that the only people County Parks wants to monitor the site are members of the local Santa Clara Audubon Society, a group that has three of its members sitting on the Santa Clara County Parks and Recreation Commission. I get a sense that they are a resolutely anti-people group that wants to severely limit visitation to all climbing sites along Skyline Boulevard. When I stare into these murky waters, I feel that they are trying to implement the concept of a 'bio-corridor' stretching from Skyline Boulevard down to the Pacific Ocean, a 'people-free zone'. There is also a shadowy group named the RAC (Resource Advisory Committee) formed at the time the Friends of Castle Rock in association with the Sierra Club sued State Parks over the 2001 Master Plan, which designated Partridge Farm at Castle Rock as the site of a walk-in campground. The anonymous RAC is supposedly composed of a group of scientists and environmentalists, who are tasked with formulating some kind of "carrying capacity" for the area. As you might imagine, climbers seem to be regarded as a fly in the ointment because of their tendency to go to new rock climbing areas. Therefore, they need to be "managed".

Actually, I've been doing very little to keep this issue alive, other than my entries here and attending a couple of meetings last year with County Parks at Lake Vasona and up at Summit. The real unsung hero is Paul Minault of the Access Fund, who keeps returning to County Parks and continuing the dialog. Have to see how the next stage turns out with the tentative plans for establishing a permit system to climb at Summit. I get a sense, though, that the Peregrines have not been able to hatch any chicks at the Summit eyrie. However, at the present moment, there are no public records to look at. Prof. Glen Stewart offered to do so over two years ago and so far, nada! Prof White said he thought the Summit site was marginal and this current business with the dead eggs seems to confirm his judgment. Did you notice though how Ranger Rocha implies in his letter that humans (i.e. climbers) may have grabbed the eggs and thrown them down the crevice? I bet the only people who have been out to Summit lately are party-ers and bottle breakers. You'll be glad to know that this issue has come to the attention of the Access Fund at the national level and they have prioritized it for action due to the dangerous nature of the precedent involved: any climbing area can be designated "habitat" and closed to public access if this precedent is allowed to stand unchallenged. Luckily for us, Paul Minault is very, very patient and keeps returning to County Parks to achieve some kind of resolution.

One thing I've always wondered about was whether the various guide services that had permits from County Parks to teach rock climbing at Summit were notified about this closure? What happened to their permits?
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Oct 21, 2012 - 08:21pm PT
minault sounds like a decent fellow. pity we don't have someone like that in the access fund down here, where they have given us nothing but apathy concerning the williamson rock closure.

it looks like they're keeping climbers off a crag that isn't even good enough for the peregrines. the crux of the matter seems to be this audubon society-packed "commission". such commissions are usually appointive offices, appointed by elected officials, in this case i'm assuming the county board. if their advisory group is acting unfairly and contrary to such acceptable standards in this issue as are being practiced at yosemite, it would seem that your recourse ought to be to the county commissioners--and their campaigns for election. if santa clara county thinks that "purging people" is the best way to protect the environment, you ought to have many people on your side to disagree with that.

i'm assuming you have a "weird" local audubon group there. usually auduboners aren't nearly so rabid.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2012 - 12:46am PT
. . . it looks like they're keeping climbers off a crag that isn't even good enough for the peregrines.

Prof Clayton White in his analysis pointed this out: The Summit Rock site is substandard and is basically impossible for the Peregrines to defend against predators like rats, racoons, snakes, and other birds. The egg with the hole in it that Ranger Rocha found only further confirms what Prof White told the Park and Recreation Commission and Santa Clara County Parks during our visit there last spring. Prof White thinks that first-time breeders often select such substandard sites due to lack of experience and therefore often lose their young at such places. IOWs: Summit Rock is not a good site for the Peregrines to nest in the first place.

The decision to close Summit Rock was made by Santa Clara County Parks, not the Parks and Recreation Commission, whose role is only advisory, although the majority of them do favor a closure. As you might imagine, the most vocal opponents of seasonal climbing at Summit are the Commissioners belonging to the SC Audubon Society. Parks and Recreation is appointed though by the Santa Clara County Board of Supervisors, who are elected officials.

It all depends on how Byzantine a model for the permitting process that County Parks enacts (if and when they do so). Depends on how reasonable and flexible a model is implemented. Paul will be talking to them sometime in the future.

Here's what Prof. White had to say in a 3 March 2012 letter to Rob Courtney, Director of the SC County Department of Parks and Recreation:

"Based on my previous experiences over many years and in many places, the Summit Rock eyrie is a marginal peregrine nesting site easily accessed by predators. Marginal nesting sites frequently have a high turn over rate of breeding adults and frequently attract first time breeders. There is good access to the Summit site by humans during the nesting season and to the actual nesting ledge by predators. The cliff's small size with a vegetative screen over the lower portion makes it more difficult to defend adding to the concept of it being marginal. Peregrines prefer to have big open spaces around and in front of the nest site providing more defensible space and room for them to make defensive dives called stoops. Don [Rocha] pointed out the one large pothole near the ground used for nesting one year. Such sites are frequently used elsewhere but with little reproductive success."

"Don also mentioned that the [Summit] falcons have fledged young as late as September. This suggests that they are having second and or perhaps even third clutches, which is also an indicator that they are losing eggs and nestling."

In other words, the empty and cracked eggs that Ranger Roucha found provide direct prima facie evidence that what Prof White has been saying is true.

On to round 16!





Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Oct 22, 2012 - 12:48am PT
keep the info flowin'
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2012 - 04:17pm PT
Bump for text revisions and additions!
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2012 - 04:12pm PT
Bump to wonder what kind of permit process County Parks is going to develop to allow non-season access to Summit Rock in Sanborn County Park? Will it be so strict that no one will ever get to go there again?

Wait and see!

If those Peregrines don't seem to be able to nest and fledge at Summit, why don't they nest a 1/4 mile away at the Tower of Pain, which has a much better view down US 9 and is certainly more protected from predators than Summit? One of the arguments that SCV Audubon Society has put forth in their publication, The Avocet, in favor of keeping Summit closed is that there's no other place close by for them to nest. Not true! Another one they cite is that Summit is a good natural nesting site. With the high chick mortality rate, this obviously isn't true either. They're just lying to further their goal of a people-free Skyline 'nature preserve' or 'bird sanctuary' where there is no access without a docent-led tour guide tagging along.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2012 - 04:48pm PT
Here is the article in the Avocet that records the Santa Clara Valley Audubon Society's position on the peregrines nesting at Summit Rock:

http://www.scvas.org/pdf/avocet_issues/2012_mar_apr_avocet.pdf

As you can see, many of Shani Kleinhaus's main talking points are patent nonsense. Summit Rock is not a good natural breeding site for the Peregrines. As Professor White pointed out, Summit Rock is in fact a marginal breeding site with poor protection against predators.

Does Ms Kleinhaus have some difficulty balancing her role as a so-called "Environmental Advocate" with her duties as a member of the Santa Clara County Parks and Recreation Commission? It seems there is some implicit conflict of interest going on here!
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 10, 2013 - 04:33pm PT
The Access Fund notified me the other day that there is still no word as yet about a temporary closure of Summit Rock during the Peregrine nesting season or a permitting process for climbing there during the off-season. I think that Aesop put it best at the conclusion of his tale about the wolf and the lamb:

"The Tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny."

The conclusion is unavoidable: there is tremendous pressure being put on County Parks as well as State Parks to keep down the numbers of climbers climbing along Skyline Boulevard (CA 35). There also seems to be a thinly disguised vengeance motiff, a way of getting even for the increasing popularity of the sport in the region. There certainly isn't any valid scientific reason for fencing off Summit Rock and environs, except to create a kind of 'nature preserve' similar to the one at Castle Rock State Park. Fortunately for us, negotiations between the Access Fund and County Parks are still in progress.
Francis

Trad climber
San Francisco
Aug 31, 2015 - 09:05am PT
Just thought I would update this thread. I have found out that summit rock is now open for climbing.

Thank you all who have worked hard to make this happen.

Here is a link to information to see if it is open when you are planning on going:

https://www.sccgov.org/sites/parks/parkfinder/Pages/Sanborn.aspx
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Aug 31, 2015 - 09:40am PT
Francis...... nothing about OK to Rockclimb.....
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 31, 2015 - 09:43am PT
good to know, thanks for the update.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2015 - 11:25am PT
Summit Rock re-opened to climbing (at least on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays) between September 1 and February quite a while ago. I guess you no longer have to get a special permit from County Parks though.
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