TOMAHAWKS!

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Minerals

Social climber
The Deli
Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 12, 2009 - 01:46pm PT
TOMAHAWK – SPLITTING THE THIN







The Tomahawk is a hooking piton for use in thin seams. It is designed primarily as a thin-nailing piece, requiring the use of a hammer, but can also be hand-placed into “beak slots” or natural constrictions in thin cracks. The design enables easier, quicker, and more delicate cleaning to prevent the piece from becoming fixed and to limit rock/placement damage. The Tomahawk is available in three different versions – standard (straight), left, and right. The left and right versions are intended for corners. Design by Bryan Law. Production by Theron Moses/Moses Enterprises.



Specifications


 1/8” 4130 cro-moly steel; laser-cut shape; heat-treated
 1 – 5/32” cable hole; 2 – 5/16” tie-off holes; all holes chamfered
 1/8” (#3) 7x19 galvanized aircraft cable; zinc-coated copper sleeve
 Color-coded sheath on sleeve for standard (black), left (red), and right (blue)
 Weight = 52g
 100% MADE IN USA!



Design Features


Larger cable hole: The cable hole allows up to 1/8” (#3) cable. Tomahawks are originally fitted with a small loop of 1/8” cable.



Curved stem: The curved stem allows for greater clearance over irregularities in the rock surface and allows the “blade” to be buried deeper in “bomber” placements; it also allows for greater hooking potential when used in clean placements.



Left version, hand-placed in a pin scar



Improved hooking action: The “hooking action” of the Tomahawk is superior to that of the Pecker and Birdbeak, due to the longer, curved stem and forward positioning of the cable hole. This greater hooking action helps the Tomahawk to stick better when hand-placed and when used as more of a hook than a piton, and especially when tipped-out. Note that weighting the Tomahawk via the cable provides greater hooking action than using webbing through the lower tie-off hole, due to the difference in position of the holes.



Hooking action



Tomahawk utilizing hooking action in a slot in a super-thin seam on an overhanging wall



Tomahawk (right version) placed above a dead-head in a right-facing corner, utilizing hooking action



Offset taper: The taper is offset, which gives the blade a very slight wedge-shape in vertical cross-section; this helps the Tomahawk to stick better, both in hammered and clean placements.



Note offset line where taper begins (just right of top hole)



Top and bottom tie-off holes: The two 5/16” tie-off holes will accept a single strand of 9/16” supertape webbing or a bight (strand doubled-over) of 1/2” tie-off webbing. The top hole can be used to tie-off the Tomahawk when it is placed in a horizontal crack. Although the Tomahawk is not designed specifically for horizontal cracks, it can be used as a last resort when all of the knifeblades and RURPs on the rack have been used, or when such pitons are too wide. For shallow, tipped-out horizontal placements, the blade of the Tomahawk can be tied-off (instead of using the hole) to reduce leverage.



Tomahawk tied-off in a horizontal crack


The top hole can also be used to assist in cleaning the Tomahawk if it is fixed or is stubborn during removal, with the gentle use of a “funkness device” and a 3/16” quick-link or loop of tie-off webbing. A funkness device should be used as a last resort, in order to minimize rock/placement damage.



3/16” quick-link and funkness biner


If the Tomahawk is hand-placed and becomes wedged when weighted, such that a simple pull with the fingers doesn’t pop it loose, a “pull-tab” made of a length of 1/2” tie-off webbing can be used to give the piece a good yank outward and slightly upward. Thread a piece of webbing through the top hole and tie an overhand knot towards the end to form a pull-tab.



Pull-tab for removing clean placements


The bottom hole can be used to tie-off the Tomahawk if it is fixed and the cable is missing, or if the original cable has been damaged/worn out/frayed and must be removed, yet cannot readily be replaced. The hooking action is reduced slightly when weighting the tie-off hole instead of the cable hole.



9/16” supertape tie-off loop



Multiple hammering surfaces: See diagram below. In addition to the primary hammering surface used to drive the Tomahawk into a crack (b.), there are four hammering surfaces that can be used to clean the piece – two for upward hammering (c. and e.), one for downward hammering (a.), and one for inward hammering (d.), which through rotation, levers the blade outward. Hammering inward on (d.) is quite effective in removing the Tomahawk, once it has been loosened. A leash should be used when hammering on (d.) to avoid dropping the Tomahawk – often times the piece will come zipping out of the crack while hammering. Beaks and Peckers are usually cleaned with the use of a funkness device, which can be damaging to a placement (the rock) because the piece is rotated outward in a different direction than the way that it originally went in. The multiple hammering surfaces on the Tomahawk allow for more delicate removal of the piece with hammer taps, in order to preserve thin placements for future ascents. Cleaning a Tomahawk should seldom require the use of a funkness device.



Diagram: Tomahawk hammering surfaces a. – e.



Left and right versions: Tomahawks are available in left and right versions, for use in corners. The upper bend enables better hammer contact with the primary hammering surface during placement (b.) and with the top and bottom surfaces of the head during cleaning (a. and c.). The lower bend provides clearance for the cable to prevent fraying/damage. The left version will fit left-facing corners with a straight-in crack and right-facing corners with a crack that is parallel to the face. The right version will fit right-facing corners with a straight-in crack and left-facing corners with a crack that is parallel to the face.



Left (red) and right (blue) versions



Right version; note upper and lower bends



Color-coded: The sleeve on the cable has a color-coded sheath. Standard = black, and for your politically incorrect nailing pleasure, left = red and right = blue.



Left (red), standard (black), and right (blue)



Additional Info


 The tip of the blade can be carefully sharpened with a hand-file for super-thin seams. DO NOT USE A GRINDER!

 Sharp edges and burrs can be removed with a hand-file after heavy use, if necessary.

 A blunt copperheading chisel can be used to place and clean a Tomahawk in tight grooves where accessibility with a hammer is difficult.

 Tomahawks should be oiled with common WD40 (or equivalent) after heavy use to prevent corrosion when stored for long periods of time, and especially when stored in humid environments. Wipe off excess oil before use.



The Tomahawk Story


From a somewhat crude mechanical drawing that I started working on back in January of 1996 to the first production batch this spring, the Tomahawk design has come a long, long way. I worked at A5 Adventures in Flagstaff in 1993 and 1994, and during part of that time, I ran the machine shop. In addition to building portaledge frames, I stamped (A5 logo) and swaged (cable) a good bunch of the total number of beaks that went through the shop at that time. When you are looking at a box of 2000 beaks and you swage and swage and swage, you get to know a beak quite well… although I must say that it is more fun to hang from a beak on a big cliff than it is to stamp and swage one!

In the spring of 1997 I took a machine shop class at the local community college, where I was able to start making rough prototypes out of scrap aluminum. We didn’t have the right size steel to make a real prototype so I eventually came up with the idea to make a larger version of the Tomahawk design, but out of 1/4” aluminum plate. These became what we called “Mud Beaks” and they were used on the first ascent of The Hazing on the King Fisher Tower, in June of 1997. We tapped Mud Beaks into slightly angled 3/8” holes and used them as bat-hook placements between rivets on blank sections of rock. They were bomber. Each one is stamped with its own name, such as “Hole Hugger”, “Dirt Hurts”, “Driller”, “Suck Sand”, “Eat Mud”, and “Mini Mud”, etc.

In April of 2005 I sent Joseph Healy a bunch of info on the Tomahawk design, after a discussion of A5 hammers and beaks came up on this forum. From that thread, Theron and I also began talking and discussing beak designs and now, after four years of phone calls and at least two-and-a-half or three years of prototyping (without ever meeting in person until just the other day…), we are able to bring you the first production batch of Tomahawks. I’m psyched!

Special thanks to John Middendorf for giving me the opportunity to work at A5, and the inspiration to keep innovating.

Special thanks to Theron for his fine craftsmanship, and his patience throughout the multiple stages of prototyping that he endured over the years.



Prototype Photos



The set of Mud Beaks



Mud Beak #6 – “Hole Hugger”



Mud Beak buried in a hole on the FA of The Hazing, King Fisher Tower, UT



Tomahawks: From initial prototype testing…



…to final prototype testing



Various prototypes



A handful, with the latest on top



1997 to 2009 – Original handmade aluminum prototype and current production model



Comparison Photos



Tomahawk and A5 Birdbeak



RURP, Birdbeak, Tomahawk, original #1 Pecker, #2 Pecker, and #3 Pecker







Please don’t hesitate to let us know what you think! Positive or negative comments, granite, sandstone, or choss, we’d like to hear it all, even if it’s not gneiss... If you have any suggestions or new ideas, please let us know. Thanks for checking out something new!


Now go out and have some fun with these things!!!

 Bryan Law




------------------------------------------June 2009 Moses Enterprises------------------------------------------

Dingus Milktoast

climber
Jun 12, 2009 - 01:52pm PT
Very cool. Those things look awesome.

One of your photos reminded my of a steep sheer faced granite boulder just off 395, just north of the CA/NV border, just south of the Red Rocks turn off, directly east of Adams Pk in the Diamond Range.

You can see the boulder from the highway.

I was there 5 days ago. There are at least 3 aid routes on this boulder and I saw one fixed pecker with a broken swage I took pic of, on a subsidary boulder.

You know this boulder I'll guess?

DMT
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
Jun 12, 2009 - 01:57pm PT
Morning wood...
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 12, 2009 - 01:57pm PT
Bryan and Theron - awesomeness.

Can't wait to try them...
goatboy smellz

climber
groove tube hell
Jun 12, 2009 - 01:57pm PT
Where can we buy them?...
T Moses

Trad climber
Paso Robles
Jun 12, 2009 - 02:02pm PT
Tomahawks are available at:

Mountain Tools
Mountain Gear
Yosemite Mounatin Shop
Mammoth Mountaineering
Nomads in Escondido
Gearheads in Moab
Some others to follow soon. Filling orders until I run out of 'em. Then I'll have to get to work on another batch.
kev

climber
CA
Jun 12, 2009 - 02:20pm PT
Right on Bryan!

kev
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Jun 12, 2009 - 02:21pm PT
so swanky cool
mojede

Trad climber
Butte, America
Jun 12, 2009 - 02:49pm PT
So cool that they almost make me want to take up aiding.
the Fet

Supercaliyosemistic climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jun 12, 2009 - 03:20pm PT
That's purty.
Slakkey

Trad climber
From a Quiet Place by the Lake
Jun 12, 2009 - 03:22pm PT
Cool, now I need to go to Nomads in Escondido to check them out :)
tooth

Mountain climber
Guam
Jun 12, 2009 - 03:28pm PT
they look great
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
North of the Owyhees
Jun 12, 2009 - 03:47pm PT
WOOHOOOO!!!!!
All Righty, then.....VERY cool, shizz, that.
Good job, boys!
Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member
Jun 12, 2009 - 03:53pm PT
awesome! makes me want to go get scared on some hard clean aid and see how they work hand placed
Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member
Jun 12, 2009 - 03:57pm PT
by the way, Bryan wins the award for Best Product Launch Forum Post ever! sweet photos, history and motivation to get out there
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Jun 12, 2009 - 04:13pm PT
Nice job!

Hammertime.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Jun 12, 2009 - 04:46pm PT
Awesome looking product!

The demonstration is awesome too, really functional piece with a lot of though put into the design.

Kick Ass!
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jun 12, 2009 - 04:51pm PT
If you use the new 8.9mm Mammut single rope and a loose early 70's style hip belay, will they hold a leader fall?
al_piner

climber
Jun 12, 2009 - 05:28pm PT
You guys share two of my favorite passions , aid climbing and metal shop !

Did you have any issues of cracking or bending with the aluminum prototypes ? Were they forged ?
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Jun 12, 2009 - 05:45pm PT
Really nice evolution and innovation, Minerals and Moses. Congratulations on some excellent work!


mooser

Trad climber
seattle
Jun 12, 2009 - 05:48pm PT
Dang! Couldn't you at least have given us some idea of what they look like, and how they work??!! ;-)

Those suckers look sweet!
Double D

climber
Jun 12, 2009 - 05:49pm PT
Wow, those look great...nice job!
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jun 12, 2009 - 06:50pm PT
Looks Great Bryan. Can't wait to sketch out on some. Politically incorrect indeed.Totally bitchen...expected nothing less.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
Sprocketville
Jun 12, 2009 - 07:04pm PT
awesome!
sounds like you really took the time to get it right.
i bet you can even open a bottle of beer or a can of beans with one of those bad boys.

you get one killer product in your line, and you add other killer products with the same amount of development and pretty soon you are playin golf at pebble beach for a livin.
PP

Trad climber
SF,CA
Jun 12, 2009 - 09:40pm PT
I thought this was going to be a post about the "tomahawk twins".
T Moses

Trad climber
Paso Robles
Jun 12, 2009 - 11:05pm PT
Chris wrote:
"by the way, Bryan wins the award for Best Product Launch Forum Post ever! sweet photos, history and motivation to get out there"

I have to give you the award for second place then. You did it for the Cam Hooks and that lead right into the Tomahawks. It also lead back to the Rivet Hangers. Thanks!

They look cool but they really shine when you get to place them! Bryan and I did some field testing last Monday and man oh man are they nice and secure. Bryan had done all the previous field testing. It was my first time actually hammering them in place. Good clean placements too!

The Line Up:


Bryan with the rough job of testing the 'hawks:
Greg Barnes

climber
Jun 12, 2009 - 11:17pm PT
There's one thing missing from that line up: Theron mills out #3 Lost Arrows to make the ASCA tuning forks (1/4" bolt pulling tools), and he does it for free - huge thanks Theron! (Paul Rasmussen made the jig for it, and used to mill them out - thanks Paul!)

stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Jun 12, 2009 - 11:18pm PT
SPAM!


Just kidding. To echo another poster, those almost make me want to start aid climbing. Good to see you inventing things that can make aid climbing less damaging to the rock.
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
North of the Owyhees
Jun 12, 2009 - 11:22pm PT
Nothing free for Moses except climbing shoes.
Send him your oldsters & he'll put 'em to use.
Got a scout troop, or some such, to look after.
Otherwise, pay up, to the craftsmen....For they have skills.....
T Moses

Trad climber
Paso Robles
Jun 12, 2009 - 11:25pm PT
To answer a previous question: The aluminum "mud beaks" were milled out of billet by Bryan while in a college machining class.

Yeah, I got a pile o' Arrows to turn into tuning forks. Soon.

Wet yer appetite with this:

Thorgon

Big Wall climber
Sedro Woolley, WA
Jun 13, 2009 - 12:30am PT
Stack-A-Hawks........

Thor
WBraun

climber
Jun 13, 2009 - 12:35am PT
Damn ... nice write up guys.
bubble boy

Big Wall climber
T100
Jun 13, 2009 - 10:25am PT
Was just ordering rivet hangers (Moses) online and came across the "Tomahawak" - immediately recognized the genius and ordered 4 of each. Thanks BL, for the innovation and history behind these. I'll be tapping them in on the right side of .5dome next week!

zak
bubble boy

Big Wall climber
T100
Jun 13, 2009 - 07:29pm PT
In addition to the two sizes of rivet hangers, you guys make a bolt hanger as well???

Stainless? What size?


Word
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
North of the Owyhees
Jun 13, 2009 - 07:35pm PT
Any size you need, Moses can provide.
At Mountaintools.
GO!
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Arid-zona
Jun 13, 2009 - 07:44pm PT
OP needs more pictures.
Mike.

climber
Jun 13, 2009 - 10:40pm PT
Can't wait!

Here's to finely crafted gear...
Moof

Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
Jun 14, 2009 - 12:45am PT
Got mine yesterday, and boy and I happy. These are fine pieces of work. The short burly cable loop puts BD's beaks to shame!
T Moses

Trad climber
Paso Robles
Jun 14, 2009 - 04:27pm PT
Thanks.

Jim If you want to take the fall I'll belay it. ;)

Lightweight bolt hanger is half the weight of the Petzl Couer. Bolt hole fits 1/4" split shaft or 3/8" 5-piece (stud is 5/16"). The bolt hole is just a hair over 5/16". Biner hole fits one large biner. Think full size locking belay biner. I developed it to go in the backcountry or to be used as a lead and replace hanger. Bolting a route on lead from stance with 1/4" button heads and replacing them on rappel with 3/8 hardware. Hanger is 316 stainless.

More photos as requested:
ec

climber
ca
Jun 14, 2009 - 06:19pm PT
Brilliant stuff!

 ec
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Jun 18, 2009 - 08:40pm PT
"Hawks" kick ass!!!!

I've watched much of the development over the last couple of years,
but have yet to actually hammer one in.!?

I can't wait to over drive one!!!

Nice job all around Bryan!!
mark miller

Social climber
Reno
Jun 18, 2009 - 08:51pm PT
These are Bryan's babies for the hardcore, they look awesome.
yo

climber
a tied-off Tomahawk™
Jun 19, 2009 - 12:22am PT
The 'hawks work wonderfully in the sandstone as well, just a rumor I heard. Little birdie told me.
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
North of the Owyhees
Jun 19, 2009 - 12:30am PT
A Birdie? Did he have a goatee?
Well, did he? And guns, right? Mucho......
yo

climber
a tied-off Tomahawk™
Jun 19, 2009 - 12:37am PT
I remember a truck that blocked out the sun and Slayer...



...and so the legend grows.
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
North of the Owyhees
Jun 19, 2009 - 12:39am PT
"The Death Star"..............
yo

climber
a tied-off Tomahawk™
Jun 19, 2009 - 12:42am PT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcL6DwSufMI&feature=related
Salamanizer

Trad climber
Vacaville Ca,
Jun 19, 2009 - 02:38am PT
5.95 for a bolt and or rivet hanger at Backcountry.com???

Am I reading this right? I'm sorry, but I just can't afford that. I'm diggin the new gear and all, but that's just rediculous. I'll stick to regular bolt hangers at like 1.75.
up2top

Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
Jun 19, 2009 - 03:03am PT
Helluva nice idea, bro.
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jul 1, 2009 - 11:42pm PT
yo's new handle: "climber, From: a tied-off Tomahawk™"
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
way, WAY out there....(OMG)
Jul 2, 2009 - 12:10am PT
Dig it.
squatch

Boulder climber
santa cruz, CA
Jul 2, 2009 - 12:20am PT
those look great.
i just started walling and took your cam hooks up halfdome, i loved'm. super fun first aid hooking.
i predict these will be stupid useful!
Ottawa Doug

Social climber
Ottawa, Canada
Jul 9, 2009 - 03:34pm PT
I see a Tomahawk in my future. Those things look awesome!
Ammon

Big Wall climber
Capo Beach
Jul 9, 2009 - 03:44pm PT

Very nice guys!!

The Tomahawks were the first beaks I searched for when placing in the thin, on my last two El Cap routes.

Cheers



Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Jul 9, 2009 - 03:55pm PT
Picked mine up at Mammoth Mountaineering

can't wait to destroy granite in microgram amounts
PhotogEC

climber
Jul 9, 2009 - 04:20pm PT
Mine arrived from Mountaintools last week... haven't had a chance to use them yet, but I sure am looking forward to it.
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jul 9, 2009 - 10:52pm PT
Would it be more politically correct to call them "Metallic Hair-Parting Devices", or something along those lines?
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
way, WAY out there....(OMG)
Jul 9, 2009 - 10:57pm PT
While they would certainly work there, I'll stick with "Splittin' the Thin".....Tomahawks.
Yowza, boys. You rock.
NRC

Trad climber
Land of the little people
Sep 13, 2009 - 08:25pm PT
Took a 20+' fall on one after a knifeblade pulled while aiding a new thin line in basalt. 6' of rope above the placement + rope stretch - half the fall was rope stretch as I was 160' off the deck. :0 I had thought the placement was marginal, but it turned out to be adequate. This was a borrowed piece - I'm getting my own!
Ray-J

Social climber
east L.A. vato...
Sep 13, 2009 - 08:51pm PT
Really neat looking gear.
Best of luck with your project!
Very inspiring.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Sep 14, 2009 - 11:26am PT
NRC, I got a pic of that placement right here I think.... lol!



These things (Pika Toucans) rule! Their larger size and more substantial offset stem makes a huge and positive difference if you can get them in IMO. They don't have the perfect cable that Theron has put on the Tomahawks. Nor do they have the well thought out features. Anyway, here's my main point: Theron, if you adopt a larger size Tomahawk, you might look at the Toucans and adopt the more extreme offset to increase the camming effect. As they are no longer made, if you want to look at one I can send one down to you, just let me know. The address in my profile is wrong, it's not xxx@mail.com but xxx@Gmail.com

regards

Bill
NRC

Trad climber
Land of the little people
Sep 15, 2009 - 02:09am PT
Hey Bill,
That toucan held my TR fall but after I led past it I took my lead fall on the tomahawk. No pic of that placement in the photos I have.
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
Boise....
Sep 15, 2009 - 02:14am PT
Haha.
I've got BOTH!
Just got a little quiver of Tomahawks, Killer Moses Gear!

Dude, these things kick asss. Minerals!
Good work, fellas.
scooter

climber
fist clamp
Sep 15, 2009 - 02:28am PT
Wow! A pecker, or is it a beak? Hard to tell. Great new invention! Considering that you are a neo-Nazi you should have stamped one of your Iron Crosses into it.
Ray-J

Social climber
east L.A. vato...
Sep 15, 2009 - 10:43am PT
Iron crosses are out, nazi daggers are in.

BITD there was a spate of micro pin/hatchet pin gear
From san diego: soft 4130 non-stemed "rurp" type,
Machine ground, and an "aluma-rurp". The stemmed
Micro pins we made were more like beaks, kinda...but
With a stubbier shaft.

Minerals observation, the one that stands out, is how
making the gear himself, working with the materials
and related tools, helped him "see more" and create
an effective design.

Key point, and not a sideways comment toward CAD,
or any of that...but worth mentioning.

Anyway, in use, the surprising thing was how well even the
Aluminum "punched" in to incipient grainy seams.

Hope to see more cool designs, Minerals!
Keep up the good work.
Minerals

Social climber
The Deli
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2009 - 12:51pm PT
Hey, THANK YOU for all of the positive comments! It’s really nice to hear! I would, however, like to hear any negative comments or anything that you don’t like about ‘em so that we can make ‘em better, if possible. And yeah, they do hold whippers! They are also not just for aid climbing – I’ve used some prototypes while putting up free routes in Tuolumne. Anyone else have any climbing experience with ‘em? Well, if not, it’s nice to know that they at least look cool.

Earlier this season, I was asked why the Tomahawk doesn’t have a biner clip-in hole at the bottom of the stem, as do the Peckers. This is simple. If the piece is placed in a corner, there is no clearance to clip it with a biner. Often times the outer edges of a straight-in crack will be slightly flared or form a groove. If the bottom of the stem rests in a groove, there also isn’t enough clearance to clip the piece with a biner. Therefore, we have chosen to stick with a cable connection, rather than a biner hole. The 1/8” (#3) cable is plenty strong enough and I would guess that most placements will rip before there is any significant damage to the cable. If you can generate enough force in a climbing fall to rip the cable, I will buy you a six-pack of your choice!

Have fun out there with these things!!!


Uhhh… Neo-Nazi? You must be confusing me with Klaus. My iron cross is still on the back of my truck… but… “misanthrope” would be more appropriate.


Edit: Oh, yeah… I forgot to mention that the hooking action of the Tomahawk is increased when weighting the cable, as opposed to a biner hole. This is due to the forward position of the cable hole.
T Moses

Trad climber
Paso Robles
Sep 16, 2009 - 03:15am PT
Bryan getting whacked:


Conrad

climber
Sep 16, 2009 - 11:42am PT
Nice Stuff Gentlemen. Totally missed the thread earlier this summer.

The cleaning flange on the bottom is a great improvement. Great development process.

Bryan - I had dinner with your mom last week and she is totally proud of you. She didn't even mention this project. Had I know I would have heaped on the props.

:)
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
Boise....
Sep 17, 2009 - 12:14am PT
Bryan & his Hawks Bump.
They're pretty damn well thought out. Killer iron.
Yarrrr.
Noodle soup? C'mon.....
MisterE

Trad climber
Canoga Bark! CA
Sep 17, 2009 - 12:55am PT
Awesome job on getting this together, Brian and Moses - again.

Seems like a satisfying culmination of a long technical study.

Great work!

Erik
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Sep 17, 2009 - 11:42am PT
Hey, THANK YOU for all of the positive comments! It’s really nice to hear! I would, however, like to hear any negative comments or anything that you don’t like about ‘em so that we can make ‘em better, if possible.

OK OK OK, I alluded to this negative issue above: make it more offset, like the Toucan picture I posted, so that the camming action is more significant. Perhaps think not quite, but almost, a Leeper Cam hook and how that could be a pointy thing you could slide in hand placed, or hammer in. Hmmm, scary.

BTW, my positive comments stand unchanged. Negative: more camming angle needed. As far as the straight ones goes, would one even need that? A straight crack could still have the angled one used, and the camming action would grip better ...No?...Yes?
Pierre

Big Wall climber
Sweden
Sep 17, 2009 - 12:44pm PT
Wow - great things!

This is what I wish I had on "Flight of the Albatross", a pointy beak with hooking performance - perfect for shallow beaking.

I know that I will have some Tomahawks with me next time on el cap for sure.
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
صَخْرَه&
Dec 7, 2009 - 09:24pm PT
Moses Bump!
Get some. Split yer thin.

Oh, yes. Sally Forth.
shipoopoi

Big Wall climber
oakland
Dec 7, 2009 - 10:12pm PT
hey bryan, thanks for telling me about these babies in the tm parking lot last summer. i ordered 3 each of the offsets from mountain tools and put them to the test last week on el cap. i was attempting to solo genesis, but after doing half the route(the first 5 pitches) i came down to let the weather play out...nice move in retrospect. anyway, the third pitch is A4 and i placed 9 peckers and tomahawks in a wild crescendo to the belay. the crux placement tomahawk cleaned by hand, but held a bounce test. two pitches later i used them again on the A3+ pitch...they are sweet.

so these are my negative comments on them:
1) they only come in one size, so #2 and #3 peckers are still needed on the rack, so, can you make them BIGGER so i can retire the peckers altogether.
2) i dropped one and it nearly ruined my day, can you make a tracking system for them. they are so cool they are like having extra partners with you on the climb to slander the tool with. if anybody finds a blue tomahawk below the dawn wall start, i'll give them a sixpack for its return.
3) i don't like the color coding sytem. the red is perfect for Right facing corners, but you should have made the blue ones yellow for Lemon is Left for left facing corners...get it?

i'll head back up there when the weather looks a little better, still two A4 pitches to go. shipoopoi
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
Top of the 5.2-5.10 Boulder
Dec 7, 2009 - 10:15pm PT
I'd tend to go nautical on colors.
Red-Left-Port
Green-Right-Starboard
Yarrrr. Genesis, eh, Steve?




Bitchin'. Get Some!
T Moses

Big Wall climber
Paso Robles
Dec 7, 2009 - 10:29pm PT
Answers to some questions:
http://mosesclimbing.com/in-the-works/

More later.

Thanks,

Theron
Minerals

Social climber
The Deli
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 7, 2009 - 11:53pm PT
Ahh, finally time to catch up on this one…


Hey, Conrad… Thanks for the nice words! Yeah, Mom mentioned the dinner – cool that you two got to meet. Got any Tomahawks on your rack yet? Hope to drink some beer with you sometime!


Couchmaster, thanks for your comments! We discussed the camming idea in a previous thread… scroll to next page, etc.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=831754&msg=836119#msg836119

Theron and I are looking into a “camming” version of the #2 Tomahawk that has a significant bend in the stem (more than pictured on website), but it will require some prototype work (as will the #2…) before any are available. As with the original Tomahawk, a limited number of final prototypes were given out for testing… maybe some #2 prototypes will be available in the Tuolumne parking lot next year (if they aren’t available retail by then)...

To be perfectly honest, I have never used a cam hook while climbing – not once. Seriously! Why would I if I can slam in an arrow??? Anyways… that said, I am not the best person to test a “camming” Tomahawk, aside from tinkering around on a lonely desert boulder of grano-who-s-a-ma-what-ever… Test “subjects” needed…! :)

The Toucans are more of a camming-knifeblade, rather than a beak. I agree that they (and modified Pika and BD ice pitons) work better in soft rock, like sandstone. Theron and I can work on something like the Toucan, but I feel that it is a different piece altogether than the Tomahawk. We will work on the “Camahawk.”


Yo, Shipoopi!!! What’s up? Good to see you in the lot and great to hear that I convinced you to pick some up! And, they were put to the test! Sweet! Thanks for the feedback!

1) #2 Ts are in prototype stage 1 – so far I can tell you that this one here next to me works killer as a SNPA popper! Almost like it was part of the design… Err, um… never mind…

2) Well, the guys that do my truck alignment keep asking me if I’ve gotten a metal detector yet… but I have to say “No.” They think that I will find gold. Heh… If I go to Big 5, like they tell me to, and pick up a $-beeper, I’ll see if I can tune the thing to detect Tomahawks… although it ain’t a 2-stroke engine so I might need Werner’s help on this one… the electronics help, that is!

3) Yeah, we didn’t know quite what to do with the color-coding. I’m up for any suggestions, but don’t know if it makes sense to change things around on something that is already in production. Color recommendations for #2 (3 different versions…) welcomed!

4) Have fun up there when you return!


Figures that a CAPTAIN that keeps sayin’….. “Yarrrr” would think nautical… Hmmmm…

Cheers, Cap’n’!
Minerals

Social climber
The Deli
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 8, 2009 - 12:04am PT
Another request, please…

Post photos of your USED Tomahawks! What did you do to them, or, what did they do to you? Thanks!
bmacd

Social climber
British Columbia
Dec 8, 2009 - 07:49pm PT
I think your design concept could be expanded into a new class of pitons that employ torque as a holding power feature, perhaps reducing the pounding power required and thereby conserving rock.

Where you see left or right handedness I see torque.

Look at what curved surfaces did for free climbing
Minerals

Social climber
The Deli
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2009 - 11:02pm PT
Some more questions, please…

What do you all think of #3 Peckers? The piece looks more like an ice tool pick than a rock piton to me, but I haven’t climbed on anything but granitic rock in years. I can see how they might be nice for the really soft stuff, like the “rock” in the Fisher Towers. Do you consider the #3 Pecker an essential piece on the rack for Yosemite walls these days? What do you like about them? What don’t you like about them? Too heavy or no big deal? Is a piece that is megabomber worth the extra weight?



#1 Tomahawk, #2 Pecker, #2 Tomahawk prototype(!), and #3 Pecker


The #2 Tomahawk will be similar in size to the #3 Pecker, but with the thickness of the #2 Pecker (to retain #1T geometry). We still need to make a few adjustments to the design, as you can see. The #2 Tomahawk prototypes are proving to be my favorite bottle opener – this piece may also be crucial for the kitchen cabinet, etc.

Do you think that a “jumbo” #3 Tomahawk would be a useful piece for granite walls? I feel that soft rock nailing requires a different design, something else that we can work on, as with a Toucan-like piece. I take it that since cam hooks cause damage to sandstone, a camming Tomahawk would do at least some damage. What’s your take on this?



Bmacd, thanks for your comments… you’ve got me thinking… :)
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Dec 11, 2009 - 11:09pm PT
will it open a beer?
Minerals

Social climber
The Deli
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2009 - 11:15pm PT
Did you not bother to read my post or are you making fun of my double-reference to the most important design feature so far…?
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
Top of the 5.2-5.12 Boulder
Dec 11, 2009 - 11:53pm PT
Haha!
Toucans can be pretty cool at times.
A big Tomahawk? Sure.....
GhoulweJ

Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
Dec 11, 2009 - 11:59pm PT
#3 thawk
yes please
I expect I will use it more on ice though
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 12, 2009 - 12:09am PT
You can open a beer with anything that's metallic, and has a firm edge. Sheesh!
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Dec 12, 2009 - 12:48am PT
b-Yes.
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
Top of the 5.2-5.12 Boulder
Dec 12, 2009 - 10:30am PT
Haha!
Taunts! & catcalls!
Minerals

Social climber
The Deli
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 13, 2009 - 05:44pm PT
Back to being serious…


#3 Pecker! Let’s hear it!!!
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Dec 13, 2009 - 06:04pm PT
Very cool guys. Didn't check this thread before. Wow!

Like the thoughful and well thought out designs. When you make a better mouse trap they will come flocking. Cheers to your success.
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
Top of the 5.2-5.12 Boulder
Dec 13, 2009 - 06:10pm PT
Actually, Bryan, I can see some uses for it....I'd venture a bet that I'm not the only
one, either. Cheers, Bro.
Glad you didn't freeze.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Dec 13, 2009 - 07:08pm PT
These things look great. They look like they would be a good part of the ticket for clean climbing something like the Groove Pitch on the Shield.
shipoopoi

Big Wall climber
oakland
Dec 14, 2009 - 12:01am PT
bryan, i use a #3 pecker when it is needed for big clearance of extruding rock and you need that clearance to get to where the piece can get some bite. i think a number 2 and number 3 tomahawk would be well received. thanks for the number one, they are so niiiiiiice. shipoopoi
Brian in SLC

Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Dec 14, 2009 - 12:52am PT

I use these mostly for mixed routes when I think I might be able to get a blade in the rock, or, dirt, log, etc...

Peckers plus
Peckers plus
Credit: Brian in SLC

Been meanin' to pick up some newer ones. I do like being able to clip a biner straight to them, for racking at least.

Might work...

USHBA sphincter rock/ice
USHBA sphincter rock/ice
Credit: Brian in SLC

Oh, yeah, bomber...

USHBA sphincter wood
USHBA sphincter wood
Credit: Brian in SLC

So, yeah, I'd probably try a larger beak or two.

Cheers,

-Brian in SLC
ninjah

Big Wall climber
a van down by the river
Dec 14, 2009 - 01:32am PT
don't know for sure but i heard reports this summer in the valley that some used close to 30 # 3 pecks( thay only had ten so thay back cleaned a bunch) on just one pitch!!! the shield i think. so if thats true,, than yes bryan, please make me some #3 sized tomahawks.

thanks

shayd
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Dec 14, 2009 - 01:55am PT
righteous, you guys got the a-ok from shipoopi!


can't wait to see if I end up using mine next weekend on Pinnacles rock.

should be, er... entertaining?
jack herer

climber
veneta, or
Dec 14, 2009 - 02:41am PT
i think the large style peckers are an essential peice on the rack. i climb on a lot of loose rock and use tons of #3 peckers. i would buy a larger size if it was made.
rick d

climber
ol pueblo, az
Dec 14, 2009 - 09:08am PT
I'd say make the full run of sizes. Jeremy opened my eyes and showed me I could live w/o 80% of my LA's and KB's with more pointed things (peckers, toucans, and beaks).
Mike.

climber
Dec 14, 2009 - 11:00am PT
Reaching deeper in a crack and clearing obstructions is obviously a good way to get holding power. But I see the larger pins potentially being used more without hammering. Tapping a pin like a 'Hawk into the bottom of an LA or KB placement is bomber, but without the hammer...I would like to see the canted designs that you and Moses have been dangling. Also, I think having the angle of the blade vs the stem be a little more open as an option would allow a deeper reach into existing thin pin placements in many cases, because so many of those placements were created by tapping a pin in at ±90° to the crack/rock. Think cam hook and Pika Mallard; incorporating some thinking behind those pieces into a some Hawk options might yield some extra crafty gear.

Along with that, we need sawed off angles that have a hooking/camming stem as well. Another idea Pika used (cam hook with angle piton tip) that I think hasn't been exploited fully.

EC for me to say... Keep up the great work.
Minerals

Social climber
The Deli
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2009 - 01:56pm PT
Wow, killer feedback!!! Thanks, all!!!!!

So, even though we are not designing the Tomahawks for ice, you hardcore types will probably use them for the frigid stuff, as well as for the solid stuff, eh? I think the curved stem of the Tomahawk would reduce leverage in placements such as the “wood” placement pictured.

Weight is not a huge concern if necessary for proper geometry of the larger #3 size? Is there any reason to consider a #4 Tomahawk, or would this be a very specialized piece, mainly for use in crap rock?

I have a couple of BD Specters and a couple of the Pika ice pitons that I modified for the Fisher Towers back in the ‘90s. I shortened the blades (2 different lengths) and put a taper on ‘em. They worked great, but that was before BD came out with the #2 and #3 Peckers.

We are still planning on making 3 versions of the #2 Tomahawk - straight, left, and right. At some point, a camming Tomahawk will come in left and right versions – got a prototype here but need to get out to test it (snow is not a good testing medium…).


“…we need sawed off angles that have a hooking/camming stem as well.”

Yeah, Mike… I was thinking about that the other day – would be pretty cool!

I know what cam hooks look like, and Mallards… got any photos of the other Pika gear that you like and can be expanded upon? Can’t go too close to 90°, like the Mallards, because hooking action is lost, which is how the Tomahawks work so well. Torque… yeah, thinking about that more.

Any other hardware trinkets that are no longer made, yet should be made? Any other ideas for stuff that you would like to see available?

Thanks again!!!
WBraun

climber
Dec 14, 2009 - 01:59pm PT
Get some rebar, grind a point on it, slam it, bang it, into the ice.

Instant tomahawk ....
Minerals

Social climber
The Deli
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2009 - 02:04pm PT
Werner, can you make a prototype and send it to me??? ;)
T Moses

Big Wall climber
Paso Robles
Dec 14, 2009 - 03:19pm PT
Mike.:

I'm a horrible tease but in the end I deliver and it's worth it.
Mike.

climber
Dec 14, 2009 - 03:48pm PT
Theron, A guy with as many balls as you have in the air doing a f/t biz as a side project gets major props from me. All considered, you've been more than responsive to the needs of a relatively scant number of climbers. I'm grateful someone is taking the innovation helm.

Three cheers for Moses Enterprises and BL's Heads...synergy that benefits all twenty-three of us!
Gene

Social climber
Dec 14, 2009 - 03:50pm PT
What Mike. said. Props guy.

#24
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
Top of the 5.2-5.12 Boulder
Dec 14, 2009 - 06:04pm PT
HUZZAH! Huzzah! Huzzah!

Theron & Mineral Boy!
WooHoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Dec 14, 2009 - 08:48pm PT
24?

kewl, we've grown exponentially!!!

;)
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 14, 2009 - 10:32pm PT
They'd make perfect stocking stuffers
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Dec 16, 2009 - 01:41am PT
oh MOMMY, i just got a package

it's like christmas over here



Theron thanks bro!!!!!


I owe ya big this time!

T Moses

Big Wall climber
Paso Robles
Dec 16, 2009 - 12:42pm PT
You're welcome and Merry Christmas!
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Dec 25, 2009 - 12:54pm PT
HA! just got a left and right for Christmas! Sweet! Now I need a straight and two of each size (do you have sizes yet?)
jack herer

climber
veneta, or
Feb 9, 2010 - 04:11am PT
hey figured i'd post up about these after getting to finally test em out. i had the chance to use them on a super steep FA on some tuff. of the 27 beak placments on the first pitch proabably 7 or so where the tomahawks god damn i wich i had more. these things are bitchen kinda between a #1 and #2 beak. they have superb holding power, and the clean easier. the left and right are killer, i think they also might help if the seam angles as well? anyways these are killer 2 thumbs up, i need 20 more.
scrappy

Social climber
California
Feb 9, 2010 - 11:16am PT
WOW! Nice job Bryan! Are you gonna be in the valley this spring? If soo bring some of that TOMAHAWK of yours so I can buy a few. It looks very cool and solid and I like the Tomahawks eye that you can just girth hitch it then walla! Awesome! I want one...
WW
Acer

Big Wall climber
AZ
Feb 9, 2010 - 04:23pm PT
I want to get my hands on some. I need to go climbing instead of skiing.
Mike.

climber
Feb 9, 2010 - 04:43pm PT
Minerals,

What spec screw-link do we need for horiz placements?

TIA.
Greg Barnes

climber
Feb 9, 2010 - 06:55pm PT
Looks like Tomahawks are on sale at Mammoth Mountaineering Supply - 20% off (along with lots of other climbing gear at least in the big wall section, I didn't look through the rest):

http://mammothgear.com/shop/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=343&cat=Big+Wall+and+Aid+Climbing

And in case people missed Theron's post upthread:

Tomahawks are available at:

Mountain Tools
Mountain Gear
Yosemite Mounatin Shop
Mammoth Mountaineering
Nomads in Escondido
Gearheads in Moab
Some others to follow soon. Filling orders until I run out of 'em. Then I'll have to get to work on another batch.
scrappy

Social climber
California
Feb 9, 2010 - 07:03pm PT
Thanks Greg! I know I miss something.
WW
T Moses

Big Wall climber
Paso Robles
Feb 9, 2010 - 07:14pm PT
Thanks for the awesome feedback!

#2's and #3's are in the works. I've had a couple lukewarm responses turn into believers in the Tomahawk. Cool to see them getting some time on the stone. http://mosesclimbing.com/in-the-works/ for some tease pics.

Retailers: http://mosesclimbing.com/retailers/ Fairly current list. I need to add Steep World in Montana and Joe Brown's in the U.K. when I finish some wide cam hooks for the order. The dudes (or should that be blokes?) at Joe Brown's came over and did the shield clean with some new Thawks and raved about how well they work.

I'd love to see some sick placement pics if you got 'em.
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
شقوق واس
Feb 11, 2010 - 03:50pm PT
WooHoo!
Tomahawks! Get some!
Minerals

Social climber
The Deli
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 11, 2010 - 04:30pm PT
Got out yesterday (finally) to do a little testing on the #2 Tomahawks in some Kali granodiorite of sorts, and so far I am really happy with the way they work! Wish I had some of these on my rack back in the 90’s… I think they are going to be bomber, AND they clean quite easily, even when buried. Looking forward to getting the #2s in the mountain shops and onto your rack!
Chief

climber
Feb 11, 2010 - 05:01pm PT
Hey, I resemble that remark!
Seriously, very cool device, way to go.

PB (aka Chief, Tomahawk, Herr Wagenburn)
hoipolloi

climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
Feb 11, 2010 - 05:12pm PT
I was just saying last night as I sorted some gear that I can not wait for the #2 size. You know the #1s will be on the rack this weekend.
jack herer

climber
veneta, or
Feb 11, 2010 - 05:14pm PT
God damnit... another thing I have to buy!
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
شقوق واس
Feb 11, 2010 - 06:50pm PT
REAL well.
Mike.

climber
Feb 16, 2010 - 05:39pm PT
Have to lob some good words on the Tomahawks.

Got to place a few--#1s, #2. If I had #3s I would never have placed a Pecker. All they're cracked up to be! Wish I had gotten to clean a few, but my partner says they came out dreamily. My partner hand placed one, I got to clean that one, hehe.

Here's to the innovators and doers.


I'll fire in some pix here later.
andy@climbingmoab

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Feb 16, 2010 - 06:05pm PT
I don't have any Tomahawks yet(will order soon), but I use a lot of the old Pika gear in the desert on clean/semi-clean ascents.

I like the big curved toucans for clean placements, and i think the additional surface area in contact with the rock keeps them from blowing things out as badly as camhooks do. I've used them in dozens of clean placements, and i've never scarred anything anywhere nearly as bad as i would have with a big blade or small arrow.

I liked the old Pika Ibis hooks. Weird looking things and definitely a specialty piece, but sometimes really useful. I used to hammer them into big muddy pods.

I'd also like a mudbeak if you started selling them. They look really useful.
Mike.

climber
Feb 16, 2010 - 09:42pm PT
Partner's hand placed #1 in a LA scar on the Prow. Cleaned sans tools.

Minerals

Social climber
The Deli
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2010 - 01:28pm PT
Hey Mike., sorry I missed your question earlier. A 3/16” quick-link will fit through the top hole in the Tomahawk but I would probably use tie-off webbing instead.

Thanks for the positive feedback and glad that you FINALLY got to place those extra-hard, pre-production Tomahawks. Did you get a #2 from Santa to tinker with?


Andy, the Mud Beaks were used in 3/8” drilled holes on a FA; their use was very limited. If I were to do it over again, I would just place bolts instead of leaving bat-hook holes, for the longevity of the placements. The Mud Beaks were fun to place, though, and were relatively bomber. What did you have in mind, as far as their use?


Here are a couple of photos of testing the #2 prototypes, from a week or so ago. Photos by Kait.



Straight version



Left version

Captain...or Skully

Social climber
Last clip of Lichen Lunch
Feb 22, 2010 - 01:30pm PT
You think they'll be in production soon?
Yeehaw!

Big 'Hawks!
Minerals

Social climber
The Deli
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2010 - 01:48pm PT
There are a couple of slight refinements to the original #2 prototypes (pictured above) that are in the works right now. I don’t think much more prototyping will be necessary. Theron is pretty darn busy (you want hammers or #2 ‘Hawks or hooks or…?) but we hope to have the #2s out by this summer at the latest. Spring season might be pushing it. The #1s go for $13 retail, so I imagine that the #2s will be another dollar or two more, but we need to run some numbers, so don’t quote me on any of this.

The first run of #3 prototypes is in the works but it will take some time to test them and make any necessary changes to the design. If things go really well, maybe the #3s will also be available this summer. But again, don’t quote me on this. Theron is a busy man.
Brother John

Big Wall climber
In a cave right next to the tool shack
Feb 22, 2010 - 03:01pm PT
Brian
Thanks for the quick intro at Coilers last week. Love how you can free the Tomahawk by tapping the lower end. I'll be getting a set of these tools real soon to add to my angry arsenal of wall weapons.
Gene

Social climber
Feb 22, 2010 - 03:35pm PT
There is something absolutely gorgeous about Mike.’s picture of the hand placed THawk. Close to perfection. Good job Mike., Bryan, and Theron. A thing of beauty.
yo

climber
a tied-off Tomahawk™
Feb 22, 2010 - 04:25pm PT
VROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!1
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
Last clip of Lichen Lunch
Feb 22, 2010 - 11:50pm PT
Brother John....."angry Arsenal", what a FABULOUS term.
That's good.

And Minerals, you know dang well, that Theron likes to be busy.
He's Enterprising Moses, of Moses Enterprises.
WooHoo!!!

We're just chompin' at the bit.
That's what WE do.

Rock on, BroMan.
Minerals

Social climber
The Deli
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2010 - 11:31am PT
Hey fellow metalheads, #2 Tomahawks are here! If you like the #1s, you will definitely like the #2s! An even cooler piece than the #1, the #2 has greater strength, versatility, and more potential for clean-aid use. From a gear-head perspective, I like the #2 better than the #1. I dunno… it’s just a really cool piece of iron. These things are BOMBER! But you’ll have to be the real judge of that. Go check out your local gear shop/mail order to add some to your rack!



#2 Tomahawks – Left, Straight, and Right versions (1 set)

Left and right versions should be used primarily in corners/flakes as the straight version is more durable for repeated use, and abusive use, in straight-in cracks.



#1 and #2 Tomahawk


Due to greater hooking action, excessive hammering is not necessary for placement of the Tomahawk; precise hammer taps will provide you with a sinker placement on traveled ground. Hand-placed Tomahawks (especially #2s) may be secure on trade routes when one is willing to leave the hammer at rest. Experimentation while on lead is key.


Prototypes of camming #2s are in the works…

Just a quick LV net-stop for me; gotta get back up the hill to go to work…

Theron can answer any questions that may arise.

For more info on Tomahawks, you can also check out Theron’s website: http://mosesclimbing.com/tomahawks/

Thanks for all of your support on the #1s!!! Now step it up to the two!


 Bryan
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 17, 2010 - 12:38pm PT
You might consider losing that sharp spur by the gear stamp. Looks cool but it could open you up pretty good if the placement blows. Hard to see it as a non-liability.
Slakkey

Big Wall climber
From Back to Big Wall Baby
Sep 17, 2010 - 01:27pm PT
How could have I missed this bump for the #2 Hawks
T Moses

Big Wall climber
Paso Robles
Sep 17, 2010 - 01:59pm PT
Steve:
They're useful:




BTW with everything else on a standard aid rack that is likely to perforate you these are a small issue. Knifeblades, fish hooks, nut tools all are willing to put holes in you at any given time.

Slakkey:
Check the time stamp. They are just getting out now for general use.
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Sep 17, 2010 - 02:31pm PT
I can't wait!
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 18, 2010 - 11:09am PT
Thanks for the clarification. I didn't see that spur as a anvil.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Sep 24, 2010 - 09:44am PT
Woot! I'm in for some. Did Ihateplastic order any yet? I'll get them from him.
hollyclimber

Big Wall climber
Yosemite, CA
Sep 26, 2010 - 02:37pm PT
Just used one of these on a recent climb of El Cap (On the Waterfront).

Some of of the features I liked were the offset angle of the tail, which allowed for easier hammering when removing, the short and burly clip in swage, and the different shape of the "beak" from the other similar pieces on the rack meant that at times it was the better fit. Different is always good. Looking forward to using these more and figuring out other unique uses and/or times when this piece is the better/only choice over other similar pieces.
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
May 17, 2011 - 02:34am PT
Just the tip.
Just the tip.
Credit: mucci

Can't tuck a BD or A5 in as tight as these.

Soooo good.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
May 17, 2011 - 02:44am PT
soooo bad, so terribly and horrifyingly bad mucci! :) ;)
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
May 17, 2011 - 02:46am PT
They are a game changer in my book.
frog-e

Trad climber
Imperial Beach California
May 17, 2011 - 09:58am PT
Great job on these pitons guys!
They look awesome.
bringmedeath

climber
la la land
May 17, 2011 - 12:27pm PT
That hawk of Mucci has the potential to hold a huge whipper!
Sonic

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
May 3, 2012 - 07:38pm PT
Awesome Thread Bump.

Wall season bump!
j-tree

Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
May 3, 2012 - 07:59pm PT
dreaming of a #3 tomahawk
Hannes

climber
May 4, 2012 - 08:36am PT
Yes please, a number three would be excellent
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
May 4, 2012 - 12:01pm PT
Where can i `GET SUMM`
Minerals

Social climber
The Deli
Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2012 - 02:33pm PT
#3s should go into production in the next month or two. Sorry for the wait.

This #3 is a prototype of a camming version for clean placements. The regular left #3 prototype that I have is all scratched up from testing, but this is pretty much what they will look like.






Captain...or Skully

climber
May 4, 2012 - 02:39pm PT
Mountaingear.com sells Moses Gear.So does IHatePlastic at http://www.shop.vershke.com As does the Yosemite Mountain shop.
FYI, theKidCormier.
Minerals

Social climber
The Deli
Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2012 - 02:43pm PT
There is also a list of retailers on Theron's website:

http://mosesclimbing.com/retailers/
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
May 4, 2012 - 02:53pm PT
CAMMING!

I like camming!
j-tree

Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
May 4, 2012 - 02:53pm PT
yummy.
Hannes

climber
May 4, 2012 - 04:47pm PT
Is the drilled hole in the head big enough to accept a normal karabiner? 'Cause that'd be nice
Minerals

Social climber
The Deli
Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2012 - 11:11pm PT
^^^^ Yes, but I think this would be mostly for racking purposes. Using a funkness to clean Tomahawks can damage the rock/placement and for horizontal placements, I would rather tie off the Tomahawk to avoid weird biner/Tomahawk geometry.
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
May 9, 2012 - 11:45pm PT
The Camahawk is a real torque hound.

I blew out some thin placements in testing. Perfect for parallel, expando, and hand placing in scars that are oriented down and out as seen on overhanging corners.

Another new wave tool I will use from Moses and CO.
Minerals

Social climber
The Deli
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 8, 2014 - 01:27pm PT

In addition to three different sizes of the Tomahawk, Moses Enterprises now offers top quality copper and aluminum heads and circleheads, standard and cinch-style rivet hangers, and a new line of aid climbing tools including a top quality blunt 5/8” chisel, a 1/4” round punch, and a Butterknife. These chisels, punches, and Butterknives are made in the U.S.A. and are not cheap, low quality tools that are made overseas. Moses Enterprises also offers a top quality Funkness Device, a stainless steel wire brush, and a blow tube to complete your aid climbing tool kit. The blow tube can also be used for cleaning out 1/4” and larger holes when bolting.

Please check out the full line of Moses gear on the website, including Cam Hooks, Tomahawks, Logan Hooks, rivet and keyhole hangers, heads, and tools. Click on the website photos for a full-size version of each photo.

http://www.mosesclimbing.com




#1, #2, and #3 Tomahawk




#3 Tomahawks – left, straight, and right




#1 heads




#2 heads




#3 heads




#4 heads




Rivet hangers




Butterknife, punch, and chisel




Butterknife, punch, and chisel




Butterknife, punch, and chisel




Funkness Device




Funkness Device detail




Moses gear can be found at your local mountain shop or online mountain shop.

whitemeat

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
Feb 8, 2014 - 02:07pm PT
thanks for bumping the thread!!! it is very cool, I didnt see it before!!!!

I LOVE MY TOMAHAWKS!!!!!!

clean aid, leaning tower, using it as a hook
clean aid, leaning tower, using it as a hook
Credit: whitemeat
Raafie

Big Wall climber
Portland, OR
Feb 8, 2014 - 02:37pm PT
Moses tools are excellent. Plain and simple---quality.
j-tree

Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
Feb 8, 2014 - 08:07pm PT
If I didn't have my Moses camhooks, I'd stop aiding altogether. (51% joke, 49% serious)
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Feb 8, 2014 - 08:11pm PT
40 hawks to freedom.

Still looking for a pitch that lives up to that name.
Howie Felderbush

Mountain climber
the homeless camp
Feb 8, 2014 - 10:55pm PT
I need to get a bunch of those chisels to do my first route on El Cap. I can pretty much make any holds I want with those? Chipping is cool!
Sonic

Trad climber
Boulder, Co
May 2, 2014 - 12:21pm PT
Spring wall bump!!!

Who's got their walls scheduled? Getting on the Shield in mid May!
Valerio

climber
May 2, 2014 - 12:53pm PT
I had already bought from Brian many heads that I've used a few days later on Reticent Wall... it was 1999... after all these years, two months ago I got again a lot of these new items that Brian has shown in this thread .. never see a quality like that... very professional tools...

thanks guys

Valerio
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
May 2, 2014 - 01:05pm PT
but her knife!
John Mac

Trad climber
Littleton, CO
May 2, 2014 - 01:12pm PT
When are you going to start making hooks?
Valerio

climber
May 2, 2014 - 01:16pm PT
good question John... especially big hooks... like Vermin ones?!
John Mac

Trad climber
Littleton, CO
May 2, 2014 - 02:04pm PT
Yes, hooks larger than the standard BD ones...
looks easy from here

climber
Ben Lomond, CA
Oct 25, 2014 - 08:02pm PT
I'm thinking about throwing one of these on my trad rack to start fiddling around with hand placements with it. A couple questions:

a) Disregarding the obvious learning curve right now, will it work hand placed as a piece of passive pro in my kit, or should its placement be backed up by a more traditional piece of pro if I plan on getting more than a few moves above it?

b) Considering that I want to start with just a single (though with my collection compulsion I doubt that will last), and that most of my climbing is done on Sierra granite with a fair amount of Pinnacles choss thrown in for variety, what size would be best?
Mark Force

Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
Oct 26, 2014 - 01:39pm PT
Get two mediums, a left and a right, and play with them. There is a crappy bouldering area that has been, unfortunately, been trashed by high school parties that makes a great place to aid practice boulder. Yeah, find a place like that. Jump around and see what holds. Keep a close hold on the upper part of your aider when you bounce test or wear your safety glasses!

They are an amazing tool, you can hand place them in surprising spots, they scar the rock less than other tools for the size, and are really conducive for "creating" clean placements. Wouldn't leave home without them.

Moses Logan hooks are awesome, too!
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Oct 26, 2014 - 01:57pm PT
Mr here, loks easy from
I have used the equivalent peckers and they are a free climbing secret weapon.
Agains advice I have torque'd them into place and they have stood up to short falls
alone that is scary but in some thin cracks they are much more bomber than the same size wire.
I will try and add a picture.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
Oct 26, 2014 - 02:23pm PT
Gnome, Get some crack-n-ups off of eBay and use those for thin pro on free climbs. They are the secret weapon. I have a couple of sets already, but I might be bidding for the same set as you are!

Here is a past thread on crack-n-ups.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=292266&tn=0&mr=0
j-tree

Big Wall climber
Typewriters and Ledges
Oct 27, 2014 - 08:47am PT
Howie Felderbush

Feb 8, 2014 - 10:55pm PT
I need to get a bunch of those chisels to do my first route on El Cap. I can pretty much make any holds I want with those? Chipping is cool!

Someone doesn't have much experience placing heads properly. Silly freeclimbers.
looks easy from here

climber
Ben Lomond, CA
Oct 28, 2014 - 07:29pm PT
#2 ftw! Thanks for the advice, guys.
Captain...or Skully

climber
in the oil patch...Fricken Bakken, that's where
Dec 16, 2014 - 09:57am PT
Bump. Just a favorite thread, real info, minimal spew.
matty

Trad climber
under the sea
Dec 16, 2014 - 10:58am PT
they make great x-mas gifts!
Captain...or Skully

climber
in the oil patch...Fricken Bakken, that's where
Dec 16, 2014 - 11:01am PT
I was just thinking that very thing.
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Dec 16, 2014 - 12:40pm PT
Be careful - they will put holes in your stockings. And on the forearms of your favourite climbing sweater.
Captain...or Skully

climber
in the oil patch...Fricken Bakken, that's where
Dec 16, 2014 - 03:28pm PT
That'll be sweet....for a more Manly look!
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