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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 21, 2009 - 03:02pm PT
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In the recent thread on Laid To Rest put up 4 days ago some of you wanted a better look at the back of Half Dome. So this is what I came up with, scrounging around my files, the internet, and so forth. It's the best I could do without buying big-assed aerial files. I think I will go up there myself soon and do some super hi-res images also and report back. I need the exercise to say the least.
In the images below, it becomes awfully clear how Half Dome really isn’t a half dome or half-onion, so to speak but a disturbingly complex weird summit loaded with changes and many features. I think its back and shoulders are quite a bit more interesting than the far more familiar northwest face. Rock quality too, obviously. And finally, just how creative all these routes really are back there. And that there is surely more climbing there.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Apr 21, 2009 - 03:05pm PT
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Holy!!!!
That is a nice lookin' shoulder.
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Apr 21, 2009 - 03:18pm PT
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Cool shots!
Have you checked out the xrez stuff?
http://www.xrez.com/yose_proj/Yose_result.html
There's a decent partial view of the backside from the 'quarter domes viewpoint', and you can zoom WAY in...
a few screen shots from it...
crazy looking features!
Cheers!
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Apr 21, 2009 - 03:19pm PT
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Cool shots....
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Apr 21, 2009 - 03:25pm PT
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Nice Peter. As you say way more interesting than the standard shot from Glacier Point.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 21, 2009 - 03:26pm PT
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As Tkingsbury says, go to that link. You will need to be running a Mac intel or a windows machine to use Silverlight (microsoft).
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Apr 21, 2009 - 03:45pm PT
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Just one incredible looking piece of rock.
Thanks, Peter!!!!
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Apr 21, 2009 - 04:06pm PT
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Good stuff. Here are some things I've found and occasionally guessed lines on, mostly posted on the Southern Belle thread:
Ben Montoya's photo (before my graffiti)
Peter, if you do go up there and get some higher-res shots from some of these angles, I'd like to get copies, to see if I can pick out the features on the Southern Belle topo from where it clears the arch to where it intersects the Harding-Rowell route. The hope is to make a more accurate topo.
And if you really need the exercise, check with Sean - it sounds like there are some ropes to carry down...
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 21, 2009 - 04:22pm PT
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You know, looking through all these accumulated images, it IS clear we need higher-res files on it. Most of our images are stunning but not quite high enough resolution to really get the facts, especially if we are going to get some more routes up there and especially for the purpose of recording what we do have currently, as you have been doing Clint. I will get the files to you as well as put links up here---the images will be gigantic and can't be hosted by Photobucket I have to assume, but can link out of my sites. I think to do this right i will have to spend a couple of days up there too for lighting and for vantage points.
I can get this done in the next month or so, I think. V. funny about becoming a mule for the cleanup crew but you are right, Clint. I should. It would be interesting getting to Dougie's incredibly productive friend Sean. You know, I have known Doug Robinson for forty years....
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
the greasewood ghetto
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Apr 21, 2009 - 05:07pm PT
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Get CF back there - - Doesn't he shoot Gigapan (Xrez) images himself , or has connections with the photogs ?
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Apr 21, 2009 - 05:17pm PT
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wow karma is steep...
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Double D
climber
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Apr 21, 2009 - 08:25pm PT
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B'chen!
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Apr 21, 2009 - 09:34pm PT
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QITNL,
Very nice. I downloaded the higher resolution copies from your website. They show some of the features I wasn't able to make out in any other photos - nice afternoon light. Could I get the full resolution ones, too?
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mongrel
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Apr 21, 2009 - 09:57pm PT
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What an incredibly beautiful piece of rock - so many of them are in the Valley. And as always I find Clint's graffiti-ed photos very interesting but have to wonder about one thing: there is some documentary value to a "more accurate topo" of Southern Belle, but who among us has the ability and guts to make use of it, eh?? I have always thought, just judging from the written accounts (and even more so from the ST thread) that was one of the most incredible bits of climbing ever done anywhere in N. America, ever.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 21, 2009 - 10:29pm PT
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Mongrel, it was and is: "one the most beautfiful pieces of rock". We are celebrating it here on this thread and I am hoping that we can get more talented climbers thinking about addressing the awesome remaining challenges back there. In a few ways, it is just like the old days, 50's-60's. Most aren't getting the scent however.
When we jump grades (hardness, giant-ness, riskines, remoteness, whatever) there are these historic , threshold climbs that are semaphores in our history. Southern Belle is certainly one of ours. One of the most important, if we take a look at the future. So are the first half of Growing Up and Laid to Rest.
So my point is that perhaps only one or two of us here will ever be up there, but such is the case with most climbing and mountaineering writing. If accounts are important enough to be published in book form or article form, they are going to be desperate. And the FA party brings it home to us sharing the experience---not the climb itself---the experience. Making a community. Hopefully a good community.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
the greasewood ghetto
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Apr 21, 2009 - 10:55pm PT
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Has the right-leaning arch (center) been done ? That could be the start to the next independent line .
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Apr 21, 2009 - 11:22pm PT
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mongrel,
> there is some documentary value to a "more accurate topo" of Southern Belle, but who among us has the ability and guts to make use of it, eh??
True, it would be unlikely to be put to actual use much. It might help someone find the few bolts that are up there. And it might show the runouts better so people have a better idea what to expect.
I have looked at a large number of topos for routes and never climbed them. One of my friends used to call it "shadow climbing" - trying to imagine myself up there and thinking about what it would be like.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 21, 2009 - 11:24pm PT
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No Blotchy, but it really isn't relevant. The potentials above dominates the initial lines below.
We here are going to get one hell of a good look back there.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Apr 22, 2009 - 03:08am PT
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Wow, Joe - thanks. Those are really nice.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 22, 2009 - 09:55am PT
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God QINTL. Your links work of course. And thanks for elucidating the QITNL handle. These images are great!!. In Photoshop at 200% they are still useful. Here is the main one back atcha, tweaked a bit.
and here is the other one, also tweaked. These files btw are about 1.6 meg. I think we need even more hi-res ones so we can go out to 500% or more. I can do this, have the equipment and will be needing the hike this coming month.
This last image really is rich. You can see all the stuff going on over at Laid To Rest and Call of the Wild too which is v. cool.
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
Vacaville Ca,
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Apr 22, 2009 - 10:04pm PT
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Has the right-leaning arch (center) been done ? That could be the start to the next independent line .
I don't think so. I got a good look standing under the thing and it looks thin... really thin. Besides, the exit from the corner is a bit overhanging as is much of the whole south face.
On the true south face, the rock is much steeper than it appears in photographs, especially on the far right (karma) side. The features up there seem to stretch for a few hundred feet or so and then completely blank out on dead vertical to overhanging polished slab. I don't think there is nearly the potential for free routes that most people are probably imagining. You would be hard pressed to find a route that goes from the bottom to top free, even by top down methods. That is not to say there aren't any, it would just be like finding a needle in a haystack.
There is a sizable "dip" in the middle of the entire south face running from one side to the other. The face starts out steep, but not vertical, then "dips" in and becomes extremely steep to overhanging. Eventually it backs off and becomes more and more "less steep" rounding out to the top. All the existing routes that are back there connect the upper (less steep) half with the bottom via a crack system or major dike. And of all those, every single one is in the upper .11 or .12 area in the upper (less steep) half. So you can only imagine how hard it would be to climb through the steeper middle section. There must be a sizable feature to link the bottom to the top. Only when you find that do you have a slim chance in hell of linking a whole route.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 22, 2009 - 10:55pm PT
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Well, Salami,
We have all been looking at this thing since the fifties. Really carefully. Spent days up there scoping, many of our best over decades.
And this is what we have done so far. It is quite a lot, but there is much more to do. Not everybody climbing now knows how much time has already been spent just assessing the situation up there, all these years. Some of these interested climbers are even dead.
There are a thousand reasons--- good ones --- that indicate we are done back there. And climbing has been in front of such roadblocks many times already, going back to the twenties, thirties etc. But always, and I really mean this, new talent finds a way. Here and there.
The back of Half Dome now poses amazingly detailed creative challenges for the next volley of talent. What can they find there? Can they micromanage their routes up these faces, armed with tons of information, foot by foot as it is going to require, or are they going to stand on the ground thinking the thing is “over with”, “hey, we can’t get up it”, in a broad-brush sort of way like we used to in the sixties and seventies?
We are entering, hopefully, an era in our art, where we have to have more information per foot than ever before to lead, to get up these areas on such a beautiful wall. If we are to do these potential horrific lines. And at this point you have assume the Euros are watching this thread too.
I have brought up all these images, and prompted or hosted this discussion, to show current lions of our art, that here, if anywhere, is one of the greatest NEW challenges to them. Our new route prospects ALWAYS looked like this. I can’t over-stress this point. And of course, if it were not an 8-mile hike, I think the “fundamental” view of impossibility would also be different.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Apr 22, 2009 - 11:00pm PT
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hey there peter hann and all... say, thanks for the share... this is very interesting...
sounds like it will be on folks minds in a new fresh way, all right... wow...
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bmacd
Trad climber
Beautiful, BC
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Apr 22, 2010 - 01:23am PT
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Peter I have used a version of Autostitch developed up here at UBC and it might be useful to you for your upcoming photography project
http://cvlab.epfl.ch/~brown/autostitch/autostitch.html
It uses AI to piece together many overlapping photos.
Bruce
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wildone
climber
GHOST TOWN
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Apr 22, 2010 - 12:39pm PT
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Salamanizer and Peter- I really appreciate the thoughts you have on this amazing face. You are both right.
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NA_Kid
Big Wall climber
The Bear State
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May 14, 2012 - 07:03pm PT
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How bout a good picture of the Snake Dike area?
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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May 14, 2012 - 07:10pm PT
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I'd wanna see that....Do tell, Walleye.
Or is this a wait & see thing?....All good, Bro.
I'll wait. Cheers.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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May 14, 2012 - 10:12pm PT
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Oh such good pics, no results...
Keep trying, Peter, keep trying.
I question the ethic of flying around taking shots and can't exactly condone all of this checking out Half Dome's backside. It smacks of violation, but not so serious as sodomy.
What would Royal say?
Seriously, I like not those archy-looking things, there could be BATSOS in there....
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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May 15, 2012 - 12:54am PT
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> How bout a good picture of the Snake Dike area?
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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May 15, 2012 - 12:59am PT
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Huge Stone just sittin' there, mindin' its own business....
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wildone
climber
EP
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May 15, 2012 - 05:34am PT
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A few weeks ago, I hiked/post-holed up to the top of cloud's rest, and was just so quieted and humbled by the awesome beauty back there. Like the feeling you get when you've just gotten out of a movie or art exhibition that really challenged your mind or blew away your construct of the bounds of your reality, and you just don't want to return to the banalities of life, or even hear your own voice...
It's hard for me to put into words, but it is truly a magical place. If I believed in that "energy vortex" stuff that hippies in Arizona talk about, then I'd have to say that that south face has one...
Some of the most amazing things I've ever seen are up there. Some of the most special times I've ever had were up there on that piece of rock. One of my closest friendships was forged deep in a private world of uncertain outcomes, ominous objective hazards, and hard physical labor not to mention the shared love of the quest.
I sure hope those routes don't end up being the only time I drink from that well. I can remember everything with such clarity-as if it were this morning! I will always cherish my memories from that spring and summer.
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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Sep 17, 2012 - 11:04pm PT
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Clint, do you have any info about that Labor of Love route? I was eyeing that from the base and was mighty tempted a few months ago, not knowing whether or not it was an established route. Looks like all natural pro at a moderate grade, cruxes not more than low .10? But maybe my eyes are bigger than my stomach and balls, and my sense of difficulty is off?
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Sep 18, 2012 - 03:22am PT
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Joe,
Thanks for sharing your great photos.
Definitely "the stuff dreams are made of"!
nutjob,
There's a topo for Labor of Love on p.214 of the 1994 Reid guidebook. Definitely an established route (Walt Shipley and Stephanie McCormack, 7/1991). I don't have any further beta beyond that. Best get up there before the days get too short!
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10b4me
Ice climber
dingy room at the Happy boulders hotel
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Sep 18, 2012 - 11:40am PT
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What's the story about On the Edge?
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Barbarian
Trad climber
New and Bionic too!
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Sep 18, 2012 - 11:52am PT
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Peter - From your first photo it is clear that Half Dome shoud be renamed "Dead Ox Point".
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Jay Wood
Trad climber
Land of God-less fools
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Sep 18, 2012 - 12:29pm PT
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I've been wondering why, since it's quite exactly opposite the North West face,
It's not called the South East face.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Sep 18, 2012 - 02:28pm PT
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thanks for taking the time to put together this compiliation - all
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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Sep 18, 2012 - 03:09pm PT
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Doesn't this pic look like a big turtle?
see the eye and the shell and front legs?
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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Feb 13, 2015 - 04:08am PT
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Peter Haan:
And at this point you have assume the Euros are watching this thread too.
Did that mean that you feared rap bolting?!
It does seem strange that the most featured part of the wall - between Southern Belle and Karma - is completely devoid of routes. Is that because it's steeper or because the features don't link?
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 13, 2015 - 04:26am PT
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Both, jaaan.
If you want that area to link up for you, there will have to be a very organized preparatory effort on the ground to find a tiny-feature-to-tiny-feature linkup. And now that distasteful previewing is getting accepted more and more often, this will be required too. Modern and like we have never really done before until very recently. The prospect of ugly blind leads up in that area is very great and frankly prohibitive for someone just trying to force a line as a free climb.
Instead of "follow the orange dihedral for 400 ft", it will be more like "step right three feet to find a good incut hold to gain several feet straight up with small nubbly footholds to reach a four foot dyno for a sloping stance". I think the recent Dawn Wall ascent was this micro-managed and should serve as an example how the remaining route prospects have to be worked. It just is the way it has to be when climbing at this high a level.
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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Feb 13, 2015 - 05:08am PT
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A route up that part of the wall would be fabulous though, wouldn't it? What a great thread, stuff of dreams - as Clint said:
One of my friends used to call it "shadow climbing" - trying to imagine myself up there and thinking about what it would be like.
I think the recent Dawn Wall ascent was this micro-managed and should serve as an example how the remaining route prospects have to be worked. It just is the way it has to be when climbing at this high a level.
That is without doubt - I wonder if this wall was given the scrutiny that TC afforded Dawn Wall, would it yield an equivalent route (in terms of difficulty and quality, not style, obviously). Do I take your second sentence as a sort of reluctant acceptance of that ethic or is your first sentence embracing it? Just out of curiosity, do you see a time in Yosemite when this wall (or others) would simply be sterilely rap bolted or do you think the strict Yosemite ethic will prevail?
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Feb 13, 2015 - 10:51am PT
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Here's another view of the good Snake Dike shot from above. Click on it to see a bigger version - though still not as big as the original.
The approach goes along the horizontal crack and brush line leading from the South Face arches out left. The route starts at a tree near the white slabs at the shadow line. From there, it goes right up the prominent dike.
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