LAID TO REST: on the back of Half Dome

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List

This thread has been locked

Messages 1 - 126 of total 126 in this topic

Peter Haan

Trad climber

San Francisco, CA

Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 17, 2009 - 05:56pm PT

Here is a photo from the mid seventies showing the (at that time) unclimbed Laid to Rest. On the right margin is also Call of the Wild upper pitches, not showing its really cool 5.10D roof crux pitch just above the ground. Perhaps someone here might want to post about Laid to Rest.

Since this photo was taken from the ground, the wall is really foreshortened. It is actually probably 750+ ft high. I know from experience that Call of the Wild next to it is around 500 ft.

If you look carefully, you can see other new climbing possibilities in this immediate area, too.

survival

Big Wall climber

A Token of My Extreme

Apr 17, 2009 - 07:52pm PT

Jeez, that should give a few of you a Wide Woody.

C'mon Peter, I know you're holdin' out with a tale....
Might as well get on with scrollin' it up!!

Sean Jones

climber

Apr 19, 2009 - 01:26am PT

Hello all,

Sean Jones here after a long super topo break. The last 1/2 dome so.face thread not only broke records but just about broke my brain.

Anyway, during the many sessions invloved on the Growing Up route. Many mornings and evenings hanging out at base camp would have us looking up at this amazing wide knarly corner.

Every day we would talk about going up there and climbing this thing. We kept saying that as soon as GU was done, we would run up there and do it while the gear was still all up there.

On GU I stared out climbing with Robbie Borchard, he turned to Jake Jones, that then turned to Ben Montoya. Ben pushed with me all the way through the first 1/2 of GU. That would be the Groung Up 1/2 of the route. Ben was an amazing partner and by all means was having a really hard time dealing with the fact that he had a soon coming job coming in Tuolumne. He had only days left up there and we new for sure he wouldn't be able to finish work on GU.

So I said, dude, if you know that you're out of here and by all means I wasn't stopping on Gu........lets pull off this and run up and do the big corner that we've both been 1/2 drooling over and the other 1/2 dreading having to man up to. This way he would leave there with a fully done route before going off to work.

So the next day we packed up an arsenal of wide gear and went for it. In typical So. face fashion there was a perfect route surely freeable just sitting there but guarded by a blank bottom pitch. We worked really hard trying to find the free start to this thing and just couldn't. Not saying it can't be done but it will be at least 5.13 slab and even then that's at best.

So the way it went down is below the corner there is a big ledge guarding the freeing of the first pitch. This ledge tapars way down in size 100 ft to the left. Couldn't even free onto the lege there !

By starting way to the left though we managed to reduce the aid to only one move. and carry on.

So for the record :

Start 100 ft. left of the big corner running up yht middle of Sub Dome. this would be the big corner just left of Call of the Wild.

Climb 20 ft. up a 5.9 crack and pull past 1 bolt. Undercling and lieback loose funky 5.11 to pull onto the ledge.

Once on the ledge, go right 100 ft to the bottom of the corner.
the next pitch gets wide right away. Slippery typical 4 1/2 in. ow.....maybe 10b and up to a point where you then move right onto steep handjams and to a belay.

Next pitch is a chimney that then goes into a bombay and is topped off with a really physical 5 to 6 in roof and followed by physical 5.9 ow. The roof crux of this pitch is probly 10 +.

Next pitch is again wide and scary as these huge and I mean multiple house sized huge flakes are just hanging on the left wall. This pitch is all wide, physical and weighs in at 10 a/b.

Then a steep chimney leads to good hands and takes you yo the big ledge about 2/3 up the route. From here the route comes off the left side of the ledge and heads into the right of the 2 crack options. Again steep and wide. Go up this and behind then onto a belay on top of a huge chock stone.

From the chockstone belay traverse left on thin cracks and back into the left main crack. The sh#t really hits the fan here with way burly overhanging hand to fists to ow again. This is the crux pitch and is 11+.

A 5.8 mellow pitch from here then i more pitch of maybe 5.7 leads to the top of Sub Dome.

With all the bullshit that was talked about Growing Up, this experience was the exact opposite. An old school hard core ground up in a day onsight f*#king pumped out of our mind bloood fest also full of plenty of loose stuff and way scary uncertain rock surrounding us on the left side of the wall.

Ben looked like he went down on motorcycle on the street with shorts on and no shirt by the end of the day. You shoud have seen the scabs on him for the next month !

When we topped out it was the perfect ending to the perfect Yosemite day. Right at sunset, blazing pink and orange skies. huge veiws up Tenaya Cny, 2 wasted climbers happy as hell, and the air was dead silent and dead still.

We started on our way back to base camp and out of nowhere this huge f*#king rockslide just cuts loose all the way from the top of clouds rest and pulverizes everything in it's path all the way to the bottom of Tenaya Cny. Huge dust plumes and total chaos.

The dust settled and it was back to perfect silence as the black of night began to set in. The valley was once again speaking and we set off for the grind back down to camp.

A perfect day with a perfect person on a perfect route that is if you like this sort of thing. Scaring yourself for hrs on end, pumping your whole body, and going through a meat grinder, then bushwacking all the way back down and hoping not to get bit by a rattlesnake or jumped by a mt lion at the end of it all.

A day of climbing I will never forget !

So Laid to Rest is 5.11c A1 by Sean Jones and Ben Montoya, late spring of 2007. ground up and onsight in a day. Surey a great addition to the the wide crack hit list. More like the route you go do after getting all honed on the old hardman traing circuit. And a big approach to boot.

I do have a really good topo of this drawn up but the topo is at my house in Vermont. Right now I'm in Boulder ,Co and will be going to the Sierras not to return east until May 13th. Once I get back east in May, I'll dig up the topo and post it up.

If you can't wait till then, the info above will get you through. My rack was everything from small tcu's to # 6 friends. Unless you really want to be scared, bring 2 # 6 friends, at least 1 ,4 1/2 camalot, a 4, 3 1/2 , 3, and so on down the .

Happy trails !!!!!!!

Sean.

Lynne Leichtfuss

Social climber

valley center, ca

Apr 19, 2009 - 01:32am PT

Sean, don't know ya and mi not much of a climber, but your read here is, seriously, one of the best I've read. Publish on bro.

"A perfect day, on a perfect route with a perfect person. Scaring yourself for hours on end, pumping your whole body." What a great choreography of words.

Don't matter how many hours yo put in the public education machine. What matters is what you do with your life and the things you feed it. Your diet is great ! Joy and Peace, lrl

murcy

climber

San Fran Cisco

Apr 19, 2009 - 01:33am PT

Awesome!!!

Sean Jones

climber

Apr 19, 2009 - 01:36am PT

Sorry for the few minor spelling glitches on the above post ! I'm wasted tired.

OK the truth, I'm a high school dropout, hillbilly from Mariposa.

Whatever.

Best to everyone !

Sean.

Sean Jones

climber

Apr 19, 2009 - 01:45am PT

Hey,

I forgot to mention, If you go to the photo that starts this post, Nice photo by the way !

Looking up the corner.....you can see the big ledge at the 2/3 or maybe 3/4 mark.......looking just above that...you see clearly the 5.11 c overhanging double hand to fist cracks.

Anyway, if you were to climb this route to the big ledge, then instead of going straight up into the double cracks and crux of Laid to Rest.......instead cut just left from the ledge and you can clearly see a 2 or 3 pitch alternate finish to the top. This looks REALLY good. Wanted to go back there and do it myself but after 4 months up there had to get out.

Have at it !!!!! Looks clean, good, and less wide.

Sean.

fourmiletrail

climber

Apr 19, 2009 - 01:48am PT

Ben has mentioned the route in some other threads . Hopefully he will chime in also .

Mighty Hiker

Social climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Apr 19, 2009 - 02:14am PT

Any reasons why they're called Laid to Rest and Call of the Wild? Latter from Jack London?

GDavis

Trad climber

Apr 19, 2009 - 02:19am PT

Proud, Sean. What a day eh?

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Apr 19, 2009 - 03:06am PT

Doesn't seem like much "rest" was involved. Oooch, Ouch!

Pain makes man think, thought makes man wise, wisdom makes a man take rest, rest makes a man feel like more suffering!

Welcome back to Supertopo!

Peace

Karl

Peter Haan

Trad climber

San Francisco, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 19, 2009 - 09:42am PT

In July of 1975 when John Bragg and I were up doing the FA of Call of the Wild to the right of what became recently Sean’s Laid to Rest route that he describes above, John and I were also up there to look at the back of Half Dome in general and this big dihedral to the left of Call of The Wild. We were avoiding the Fourth of July down in the hot-as-hell Valley. This was only five months before his first Patagonia trip with Donini when they did a FA on Torre Egger and got started thinking about Maestri.

Here are a couple of shots of us probing around trying to get up to the ledge at the base of the huge formation from 100 ft to the left of it, just as it turns out Sean ended up doing. There was a bolt there, just as Sean describes, even back then!

We were fairly cowered by the prospect of having to climb some of those scary features up there and never got anywhere. Routes like this weren’t being done yet. You can even see some of the loose-looking monster flakes from the ground. That was 34 years ago. Thank god someone did the sucker. It is really impressive from all angles, especially from right below. I was really hoping you would post up Sean, thanks tons! Go back and do that great-looking variation to the left too, that will bring even more character to this wild route.

a winter view showing the main dome and the “sub dome” also known as The Pearly Gates, lending the meaning to the climb name, Laid To Rest (which comes from the song by Fight): Also showing how complicated the back of Half Dome really is. Basket Dome and North Dome are across Tenaya Canyon there, with the Tioga Road visible in the upper right corner.

John Bragg and I trying to get a feel for the first pitch:

Sean Jones

climber

Apr 19, 2009 - 10:14am PT

Those photos age great !!!!

Thanks and awesome to think of your adventures up there. Yes, looking up at this thing is intimidating. Even in this day and age with all these big shots firing all this big sh#t......

You can't avoid the reality that those huge plates are hanging on the left wall. Some are hundreds of feet in size. A real relief when you finally get above them.

On the 3rd or 4th pitch, you can't avoid using the flakes on the left wall. Your whole body is in there...chicken winging,
and when you knock your knee against the wall it just echoes and vibrates all the way up. uuuuuuugggghhhh. You really don't even want to sit around the base in places like this.

S.

Sean Jones

climber

Apr 19, 2009 - 10:30am PT

Oh yes,

The name Laid to Rest.

For 1 it seemed fitting as we stared up at it for months talking and dreaming about going and doing it. GU was really keeping us from going there. So when we finally just did it it was Laid to Rest for us.

Also from camp it just looks like a big ominouse coffin leaning against the wall. It is !!!

And the one truth that REALLY stuck this name in our heads even way before we set foot on the line......

I'm a huge music fan of many sorts. Like WAY into band like YES, GENESIS, KING CRIMSON, RUSH, PORQUPINE TREE, ext. But also a huge metal head. There is a band called FIGHT that Rob Halford from JUDAS PRIEST formed in the early 90's. The album is called WAR OF WORDS. ( fitting eh ) anyway the song Laid to Rest is a really burly deep heavy tune on the album. We would crank this soooooo loud all the way into the valley time and time again when heading up there. The song pounded in our heads all the way up the trail so many days. This name is owed to Halford. Far and away the most epic vocalist anywhere even today. Judas Priest will be on tour with their best album to date Nostrodomus. Believe me when I say that Halford is destroying still. His range is huge still. Can't wait for the shows !!!!!!!!!!

On the note of music and bands that I love...... there is a new Queensryche album just came out. AMERICAN SOLDIER. This is far and away the best album they've done. They are destroying.

Sean.

Studly

Trad climber

Apr 19, 2009 - 11:01am PT

I just started bleeding from my elbows and knees reading this TR, son of a.....stigmata!!

Rhodo-Router

Gym climber

above the play park

Apr 19, 2009 - 11:20am PT

What a mission! Way to knock the bastard off, or survive it, however you decide to look at it.

Rob
above Magruder's garage and it's all good

SteveW

Trad climber

The state of confusion

Apr 19, 2009 - 12:04pm PT

WOW!

10b4me

Ice climber

Rustys Saloon

Apr 19, 2009 - 12:52pm PT

Pain makes man think, thought makes man wise, wisdom makes a man take rest, rest makes a man feel like more suffering!

as someone once said, to experience the pleasure, you must suffer thru the pain.

nice pictures Peter. I enjoyed your tr Sean

Peter Haan

Trad climber

San Francisco, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 19, 2009 - 03:05pm PT

Here is another view of Laid to Rest, this time showing the interior better. Slide is not in the best shape.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Apr 19, 2009 - 04:52pm PT

So with a writeup like this, mentioning huge deadly flakes, who's gonna want to repeat it?

Great to read about, though!

10b4me

Ice climber

Rustys Saloon

Apr 19, 2009 - 08:45pm PT

Sean,
btw, I enjoyed your part in MOS 6. That liebacking looked pretty intense.

bachar

Gym climber

Mammoth Lakes, CA

Apr 19, 2009 - 10:00pm PT

Cool stuff Sean. Thanks for the story. You know I give rap bolters a lot of sheet, but that's cuz of where I come from and what I believe can be done ( and for the most part, I'm just jiving anyway - climbing is just a game after all ).

I've always given credit when credit is due, so I say way to go - nice ascent, very cool. True Yosemite style....

Cheers, JB

Sean Jones

climber

Apr 19, 2009 - 11:07pm PT

JB,

It's good to hear from you. I haven't been on super topo at all since things were all crazy around the 1/2 dome thing.

When I wrote the stuff about this route, I couldn't help but think about all that other stuff.

Sorry for any negative sh#t on my part to you or anyone else. I'm really not a negative person at all so it really bugged me to see myself getting all pissed back then.

Climbing is a game....life is a game.....and lucky for us, we're here playing it at all.

I have to admit one of the stupidest things I said back then was that I would take you up on your oldschool deal and solo with you for $10,000 dollars these days.

I probly would have died trying that or been smart and backed out.

Always had big respect for you and all the other big dogs and still do.

Hope you're well and maybe see you when in Cali coming soon ! Can't wait to get there !

Sean.

Salamanizer

Trad climber

Vacaville Ca,

Apr 19, 2009 - 11:57pm PT

So Sean, I went out late last month and climbed Growing Up. Well, half the route anyway. Didn't get on the upper slab pitches, never was much of a sport climber... Ha ha! Truth be told, it just kicked our asses and we bailed at pitch 13. I have plans of going back.

I was gonna write a TR, but I'm still waiting for the photos from my climbing partner. What's a TR without pics, huh?

Anyway, I figure I'll let you explain beforehand before any judgement or accusations are made so I'll try and be fare and forthcoming.

What's with the hundreds of pounds of trash left behind at the campsite? There are two massive tarps, empty water bottles, a stove, bags of trash and a half dozen spent fuel bottles thrown all about the place. We gathered it all together and wrapped it up, but did not have the means to carry it all out. Also, there are a dozen or more ropes near the base. This is all abandoned trash. What are your plans for removing this junk.

Also, who's idea was it to build a fire ring up against a living tree charring the bottom and probably killing the thing? We tore down the ring and moved it away from the tree.

I'm really not trying to blame or be an as#@&%e, but y'all were there for months so I figured you'd have the scoop... What gives?

Salamanizer

Trad climber

Vacaville Ca,

Apr 20, 2009 - 01:03am PT

Directly below the corner systems that feature GU. A bit out of the way for Snake Dike. Actually, way out of the way.

Ihateplastic

Trad climber

Lake Oswego, Oregon

Apr 20, 2009 - 02:23am PT

Oh no... here we go again.

If Salamanizer is telling it as he sees it (and no reason to believe he isn't) then Sean and DR have some 'splaining to do!

Sean Jones

climber

Apr 20, 2009 - 04:16am PT

Salamanizer,

The whole deal up there was far and away the most involved epic thing I've personally ever been involved in. So much gear moved up and back down that hill it's not even imaginable.

When I first showed up there there was 2 haul bags worth of crap at the base already. Old wasted ropes, sling, water bottles buried and tried to be hidden in the talus, ext. We removed all this and there's still another haul bag worth of someone else's crap in a cave that I still plan to get out of there. Then we did a whole haul bag worth of trash from above. Cleaned the base all the way from sub dome down to GU. And later in the season did it again after the tourist huck fest from the top. Pretty strange how much trash was there from older climbers even on this "back country wall"

Anyway, the removal of my own stuff was a huge undertaking. By the end I was hiking out loads still myself as well as paying others to do it too.

We then left X amount of stuff still there as I planned to re-mobalize and go back to shoot video still. We did go back and do Video....then the final stage of removal was going on.

All the while me and my fam were packing everything we had and moving to Vermont. Talk about being spread thin. Anyway a couple of friends at the very end absolutely promised me that I could get in the truck and head east in peace with the fam and they would get the rest.

I paid them over a thousand dollars in gear and money to do this and told them they could keep everything they took out as well. At least a thousand or more worth of perfectly good gear.

I checked in with them constantly after leaving and am fully aware that they never did the job. One excuse after the other.

I'm coming to Yosemite for 3 weeks and will be there in less than a week now....had they have done their promised part.....well I wouldn't be going up to So. Face at all.

The first thing I have to do and will be doing now is hiking back up to the pig and dragging all this down. I'm pisse about this as I paid out the ass to have this done and will now be dealing myself.

Such is life....every new route...every f*#king job I run....everything....if you don't do everything yourself even when people are getting paid.....it all goes to hell.

All the stuff at camp was double wrapped in a 2 tarp burrito and nothing was laying out anywhere when I left. I was even told that it all came out ......now I know this didn't happen either. Mother f*#kers !

Like I said, I don't abandon trash. I paid more than well and obviousely paid the wrong people. I'll be there in less than a week and all will be dealt with period.

God damn, those statics at the base were in killer shape and cost a fortune. Has to be 1,300 ft now heading down to go straight to the trash.

As for the fire ring at the base of the tree, it was there when we got there. We did have some fires and the tree as a wind block was mandatory to keep sparks from setting the whole so. face on fire. If you look 50, 60 feet up this and every other tree there....they've all been blackened and charred time and again from forest fires and lightning. None of them are even close to dying and neither is the one in camp.

Just remember tht as much stuff as you just found their, I have already removed in other people's trash. More from climbers than even top hucking tourists. What's mine there is not forgotten or abandoned...Just f*#king wasted and worthless now and well paid already be me for a job never done. I was promised that the camp was removed and this is news to me.

Every speck and more will be gone when I get there soon. What needs to be happening when I get there is me grabbing a couple f*#ks by the neck and following them up the trail while I wear a fanny pack and carry a bullwhip and beat their ass all the way up and back down the trail. Rest assured all will be done ! climbing is my job and sh#t like this this is not good for me. All will be done !

Right now....less than a year after moving the whole fam to VT, I'm house huinting in Boulder,Co. and will be moving the whole fam here this July ass the winter was too much on my wife and kids. Oh well, what's another 1/2 million dollars anyway. More like a sponsored mule than a climber.

Thanks for the info and again rest assured all will be Laid to Rest and spick and span soon. Speaking of being Laid to Rest now there may be a couple of funerals going on in Yos for a couple young f*#ks.

Again, thanks.

Sean.

wildone

climber

GHOST TOWN

Apr 20, 2009 - 07:10am PT

CLASSIC!
I love you Sean. If there's one thing about you, you're true to your word. I'm coming up this weekend. Talk to you soon.

wildone

climber

GHOST TOWN

Apr 20, 2009 - 07:12am PT

Hey Peter-Did you guys leave a pin near the bottom of the first pitch with a big 'ol eye on it? We figured whoever had placed that first bolt to get to the ledge left the pin in the first pitch when they bailed. It was really a cool looking pin. Looked very handmade.

Domingo

Trad climber

El Portal, CA

Apr 20, 2009 - 08:15am PT

Damn, didn't know you were in Colorado house-hunting Sean... Great TR, and I can't wait to see the photos from the first half of GU, Salamanizer.

Peter Haan

Trad climber

San Francisco, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2009 - 09:13am PT

HI Wildone,

It was an interesting thing, finding the old bolt and seeing other signs of climb attempt(s) at the obvious least difficult spot to start Laid To Rest. I am not remembering the pin....my photos don't show much of the first flake system unfortunately. It is likely it was there before Bragg and I messed around there. The line of the climb is so completely obvious (horribly so) that it has to have had attempts or little "look-see" activity long before 1975 when John and I were up there. Note that the easy climb, Happy Gully, way over to the right was done in 1966 (Harding, Faint, Fredericks).

By the way, you guys probably would like to see these two shots of doing the first ascent of Call of the Wild. Here Bragg is leading the 5.10d roof not far off the ground. John has the most incredible reach plus he was like 6ft-3 or 4" at least.

About 4 more 5.8-5.9 pitches lead to the top of the Pearl Gates (sub-dome). When we did it, snow melt was gushing down parts of the upper pitches. Very weird freezing our asses off, completely wet, while it was probably a minimum of 90 degrees, typical hot July.

[

Sean Jones

climber

Apr 20, 2009 - 11:05am PT

SICK !!!!!!

Awesome shots of Call of the wild. We were so busy up there doing all we did that we only ever walked by "Call" and wished to climb it. Maybe now that I have to go up there on this trip I will go do the thing.

I have to do some photo stuff while in Yos to please sponsors and all plus that's just what I do anyway. I have a really big list of newness on my plate and the thought of having to go to 1/2 dome for the 50 plus time........god.......help me !

Well maybe we should just climb Laid to Rest one more time and have Reeder shoot the f*#ker since we never got to shoot on it.
Wild One....you up for this ?

I'm not but what the f*#k...when have I ever been ready for any of the things we do.

Glad you'll be in EP for the weekend and see you there.

S.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Apr 20, 2009 - 02:37pm PT

Awesome trip report! Great adventure up there. Thanks for sharing.

10b4me

Ice climber

Rustys Saloon

Apr 20, 2009 - 02:56pm PT

Sean,
thanks for cleaning up the garbage. wish I could help out.

Salamanizer

Trad climber

Vacaville Ca,

Apr 20, 2009 - 08:50pm PT

Kudos Sean, I figured there was more to the whole story than meets the eye. You'll need help, there is more than one person could possibly carry. The static ropes were in a bin tucked inside a cave out of the elements. They looked to be in decent shape, salvageable I would think. I'd love to help, but I'm pretty much a weekend warrior and there is no way I'm going back up there and not climbing something.

I found the beta on your topo to be more or less correct. Besides the normal pitches that felt hard or soft, the only thing I found incorrect was on pitch 13. There is only one bolt after the tension traverse before entering the corner that leads to the anchor, not the three your topo shows. This traverse is all good for the leader but totally fuks the follower. The follower is forced to unclip and downclimb hard .11 to the ledge risking a 30' swing into a corner, or switch over and do a lower out, untie and pull the rope, then climb to the ledge. Kinda a pain in the ass when trying to free climb. Seemed weird to me. Oh, and there are no fixed pins on pitch 10, which your topo shows. Those would have been really nice. Fiddling in black aliens while liebacking a .12+ tips crack was torture. That pitch is uber sustained, probably my favorite along side pitch 3's splitter offhands corner crack.

wildone

climber

GHOST TOWN

Apr 20, 2009 - 09:00pm PT

Wow Peter. Call of the Wild looks like a truly amazing route. Much cleaner and less scary (therefore enjoyable) than Laid to Rest. The pics look absolutely inspiring. I'm going to have to do that one.
As for Laid to rest, the only evidence we saw of passage was no higher than the first real pitch, where there was a large, very handmade looking pin with a large eye (not unlike a pin to rap from) about 30 feet up from the ledge. Above this was much loose rock, etc. We could be wrong, but it just didn't "feel" like a second ascent.
As well, it would take someone slightly unstable (batso, tobin, yabo) to look up at that thing and want to do it. Truth be told, I was scared shitless, and only went along with Sean because I have absolute faith and trust in his abilities. Climbing with Sean is like climbing with some Mega guide. There is just absolutely nothing he can't handle. Well, we ended up punching it under seemingly dumptruck loads of flakes that you have to wedge yourself between for upward progress. In retrospect, the route turned out to be amazing in quality, but it sure looks scary.

wildone

climber

GHOST TOWN

Apr 20, 2009 - 09:03pm PT

Ahh, pitch 13. That was probably my hardest follow ever, and I did it in mad rock approach shoes worn smooth from the hike in and out, sized small, tied tight. Scared witless.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Apr 20, 2009 - 10:06pm PT

Chad,

Thanks for the topo corrections. I've updated it:
http://www.stanford.edu/~clint/yos/growingup.pdf

I added a note to p13 suggesting that the second rope be used to protect the follower for the tension traverse.

Sean Jones

climber

Apr 21, 2009 - 12:49am PT

Pitch 13 is the one part of the route that I didn't like the way it was left either. We we're sooooooo stoked that the whole thing was going free up until this point......then the dike ran out and we fought to figure out even the most epic of slab passages to get us through. We got nothing !!!!! This will be hard to imagine ever going free. There is a thin chance of a variation going straight back up to the roof there and traversing the lip. I tried hard for this too but bad feet and pinching above your head while traversing with feet tucked under beat us. You would have to train for this by doing pullups on 2 by fours. I don't mean hanging on them like jugs... I mean pinching them from below and doing pullups. Many of them.

Anyway frustrated at this point I drilled the last bolt and lowered to the ledge and took off. Easy for me but the follower did just what you said. You either unclip it and down climb or the follower lowers as well, unties, pulls the rope through, re ties, and carries on.

We did the second of those two options. It does seem a bit odd to untie ever from the end of the rope up there but it can be done quickly, safely, and when you think of all that's involved to do the whole route, it's just one more little thing to deal with. Also when we did untie we did it still being able to be tied into another bite of the rope from further up. So being fully unclipped is never the case. Unless you're f*#king up !!!

As for the pitons on pitch 10..... here's a really strange story and a bit scary as well.

When we did the route, we had the pins fixed there. They were tested beyond belief. I mean tight as hell and I don't think I could have gotten them out without beating the sh#t of the rock bad. The route was sent, the pins were left and in great shape.

Way later I went back up there with Eric Perlman and Graham Hunt to climb the thing and film for Masters of Stone 6. This would be after the brutal heat of a summer gone by.

Every one of the pins was hanging in there by a thread. I mean just touching them with the Quick draw and they fell out in my lap. I was horrified ! These pins were left as bomber as you could ever leave pins period !. They just fell out in my face.

I know we get expansion and contraction on everything in life. Life itself, concrete, even our beloved solid granite. Everything !

But this piece of rock, this roof is dead in the middle of the most bullet hard granite anywhere. The roof isn't just some little flake.. we're talking 50 feet thick and 300 ft long, and 1,000 ft. down. A major corner. Did this whole thing grow an 1/8 inch over a summer ? If so why didn't all the pins in the valley have this happen.

Or is this corner the next mega exfoliation to peel from the dome ?

Sorry I didn't up date the topo. I've been so maxed out for the past 3 years on so much I just can't keep up any more. Every day I'm pedal to the medal all over many states. I mean the United Stares and lots of them ! Doing all I can every day to make all work and just can't keep up with it all. Just moved the whole Fam to Vermont and now less than a year later I'm sitting here right now in a hotel while house hunting in Boulder, Co. then out to Yos, all the way back east and move the whole fam to Co in July. 12 and 15 hrs a day working every day now for months. I mean every day. Still can barely sleep at night with too much in my head for the next day.

My emails are pounding away tons from climbers all over with tons of questions all the time. Trying hard to keep up.....but falling behind in places. Places like the time to update this topo or even draw up topos to other routes that never got them.

I really don't need to be going to Yosemite right now. More like going to an island....laying in the sand....f*#king cucumbers over my eyes and all. Just laying and breathing.

I won't be laying anywhere though.....my wife says I'm addicted to chaos...............she's right !!!!! Pedal to the medal is where I'll be. All day and all night.

Russ Walling

Gym climber

Vulva, Wyoming

Apr 21, 2009 - 12:50am PT

This is a cool thread!

Sean Jones

climber

Apr 21, 2009 - 01:20am PT

You know when the whole 1/2 Dome thread came up ......the big epic thread. I knew about super topo but never even knew the whole chat / thread thing existed. Never had time to even know it was there. Still don't have time !!!!

Anyway, someone told me about it and said I better have a look as I was getting pounded there. I looked, I got sucked in and we all know the rest....

Have only ever chimed in a couple times since then on different topics as my fast life has only gotten faster.

The other day, Doug Robinson sent me an email and told me about this one. Said I better chime in and tell what Laid to Rest was all about.

I'm glad to be on this. It's been a great experience to share this story and to see and feel the responses and interaction.

Of course things flow alot smoother when you do something like "Laid" and everyone is happy with the style.

But even more important than the whole climbing thing, just the cool interaction with you all. Even passing kind words back and forth with some of the same people that I was in the ring with before....throwing blows. This is good !!!

I have a whole host of other epic adventures that I now am very inspired to throw on super topo. I'll throw these stories down as I can find the time.

The first one that comes to mind is a route called "Sky People"
This a a huge...2,000 plus ft line out of the back left corner of Ribbon Falls. Went all trad and all onsight at burly 5.11c and no protection bolts on the FA. Laid to Rest is nothing compared to this route that almost noone even knows about. Surely no second ascent. This thing is WAY ominouse. I do have a great topo for this in VT. I'll get the topo and full story out when I get back. You all will dig this one.

To think after all the action in all the valley years gone by....we could just walk up there and do an all free ascent on a 2,000 plus ft untouched line all in one epic push. no bolts no falls. epic day. This had to be one of the most epic days ever for me in the valley. There is plenty more of this in the valley. you just have to really want it and hike some.

Sean.

Salamanizer

Trad climber

Vacaville Ca,

Apr 21, 2009 - 01:43am PT

Yeah, I was pondering a passage through that section as well. Up looked like the only way, but epic as hell. I wouldn't say it'll never go free though. Way despirate!

About those pins. I figured that's what happened to them. I always knew Half Dome was alive. Turns out it was breathing as hard as I was, ha.

I regret not having enough time to finish the route. We didn't have enough food, no beer and just ran out of time. Our attempt was blitzkreg style, figuring two days on the route. We were going for ground up, onsight or at least as best we could. Most of the pitches went free, at least by one or the other of us. Some absolutely amazing, splitter cracks up there. Seemed like every pitch was thin, right side in brutal and relentless liebacking. You would have to be seriously bad ass or have to know the route like the back of your hand to knock this route off in one day. I can't wait for the first ground up, one day, onsight (at least what can be) car to car send of this thing. It will happen, but who's it gonna be?

I've heard this thing called Astroman on steroides...
Sh!t, this thing is so far beyond astroman. 12 pitches of near or well beyond 5.12 climbing backed up by 7 pitches of hard .10+ to .11 with only two pitches coming in at or under 5.10. Way beyond!!!

Gotta get those pictures....

msiddens

Trad climber

Mountain View, CA

Apr 21, 2009 - 02:04am PT

great read and as always, thanks for the share

wildone

climber

GHOST TOWN

Apr 21, 2009 - 07:33am PT

Salamanizer- Please get those photos! I'd love to see a different perspective. And now that you describe 13 more (and Sean) I know I didn't do it that way, I was thinking of the downclimb pillar/ dike traverse, which I did in approach shoes. Not that desparate 13!

climber

Apr 21, 2009 - 10:14am PT

Great stories. Thanks for posting Sean. Good luck house hunting!

Karl Baba

Trad climber

Yosemite, Ca

Apr 21, 2009 - 02:52pm PT

Onyx wrote

"Yawn....."

Are you trolling or do you have an explanation of why this on-topic, on-location, first person history climbing thread deserves a yawn?

If so, what do you expect and what do you contribute toward that expectation?

Not flaming here but just curious cause I don't understand

Peace

Karl

Peter Haan

Trad climber

San Francisco, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 21, 2009 - 03:14pm PT

Referring you guys to my separate thread I just put up that has all the images of the back of Half Dome that I could muster up currently. Since QITNL asked.

http://supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=841420

And, good one Karl as always. Just keep in mind my favorite dictum, "Don't teach a pig to sing; it irritates the pig and wastes your time".

climber

Apr 21, 2009 - 03:33pm PT

Bump. Cool. You might be able to get various freaks from camp4 to help you carry stuff down if you post or leave a note - although maybe that's what you tried before...

Nate D

climber

San Francisco

Apr 21, 2009 - 09:21pm PT

Sean - no rush on the little topo request from me. Good heavens - get yourself and the fam moved to CO and put some cucumbers on your eyes for at least 5 minutes!

And this is also an unabashed bump. Great to hear details of this wild adventure.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Apr 21, 2009 - 09:35pm PT

Sean,

I think you can hire (real) mules to carry that stuff out. Check at the stables for rates if you are there when they are working.

dickcilley

Social climber

A cova Dos Nenos

Apr 22, 2009 - 09:42am PT

Jay bro doesn´t know it yet.But we´re on Call of the Wild and Laid to Rest in the Fall.Thanks for the inspiration Peter.

Peter Haan

Trad climber

San Francisco, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 22, 2009 - 10:13am PT

Dick, stoked to have been of service--- that was my whole purpose and it makes me feel good too.

When you and Jay go up on Call of the Wild, it will be dry in autumn. July it was still running with ice water if you can believe that. At least in 1975.

Anyway the first pitch is really pretty hard right off the batt and the taller you are the better. You are on kind of a ledgie sort of thing just above the ground trying to get into the roof at arms' length above you. Bragg is like 6-4 or something, I am 6-1. You are well protected there, bring a few large cams as you are going to be fisting the roof and underclinging it at the same time for a few feet and around the corner. We of course used a bong. Making it around the corner and just above it is the hardest section. It is 5.10d and is size-dependent. But it is not for very many feet thankfully. I am not sure if a really short climber could do it or someone with tiny hands. Having hiked all that way, one could resort to aiding the few feet of the crux of course just to get the climb done, I suppose too. Above this first and shorter pitch the next one is 5.9 and it goes down to 5.8 I remember for two more leads. The climb is safe, it's a unique location and vantage point and the rock is great.

And once completing the climb, you can hike up to the main trail that leads to the cables.

Chicken Skinner

Trad climber

Yosemite

Apr 22, 2009 - 10:37am PT

We were able to find water in July, not sure about the Fall. We found three small seeps coming out of the rock to the right of the Tiger's Belly before you traverse left on the bench above to approach Karma. They were close to each other and through creative use of pine needles we were able to direct all three seeps into a plastic lined catch basin. Every morning there would be three to four gallons of cold water collected. This was during very hot weather.

Ken

dickcilley

Social climber

A cova Dos Nenos

Apr 22, 2009 - 10:40am PT

Jay and I are midgets with small hands.But we're big on teqnique.No aid for us.

wildone

climber

GHOST TOWN

Apr 23, 2009 - 11:39pm PT

I really hope you guys do our route. I am so proud of it. It was probably my best day out. I really hope you'll enjoy it too.

deuce4

climber

Hobart, Australia

Apr 23, 2009 - 11:43pm PT

"Jay and I are midgets..."

Yet Giants in our minds...

(When you're a jet...)

JesseM

Social climber

Yosemite

Apr 27, 2009 - 09:59pm PT

Hey Sean,

I saw you during Spring Fling in El Portal this weekend, but didn't have a chance to catch up. Wish we could have talked. I've been back and forth from the Valley with trainings etc, and missed this very interesting thread until a couple of days ago.

I'm psyched to read about more of your adventures on the S. Face, especially with Montoya (a good buddy of mine). I remember those scabs well...

I understand your intentions to remove the rest of the gear from GU. Sounds like you did a lot of planning and paid good $ to finish the job. However, and I'm trying not to be sarcastic here, it is 2009 and GU etc was a 2007 climb right? As a pro climber its part of the job not just to lead the way with inspiring ascents, but with inspiring ethics and LNT practices. I'm definitely not talking about the style of the ascent here, that's already been belabored (and I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other).

I have a lot more to say, of course, and this is not the venue for that conversation. Please give me a call or email me ASAP with your plan for the removing the rest of the associated gear, etc. I appreciate your honesty (and anger) over the whole situation, and I'm sure you'll be good to your word for removing the stuff while you are here. Let me know if myself or any of the other wilderness staff can be of assistance.

Jesse McGahey
Lead Climbing Ranger
Yosemite NP
jesse_mcgahey@nps.gov
(209) 372-0360

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Apr 22, 2010 - 12:16am PT

IMPORTANT: What's the scoop here?

As if rap-bolting the South Face of Half Dome wasn't bad enough, these guys ended up leaving - unintentionally it appears as the people they paid to help keffled out on them - a huge and monumental pile of trash further desecrating the place.

So WTF guys, did you go and clean up your sh|t AS YOU PROMISED YOU WOULD, or knott?

If so, why did you not say you did? And if knott, why knott?

Jesse, what is the status of this all-time Yosemite Cluster-fukc, please?

Is it possible, Sean and [my one-time hero whose first name I have now entirely forgotten] Mr. Robinson, that you could have done a worse job at what you did?

Buju

Big Wall climber

the range of light

Apr 22, 2010 - 12:42am PT

It has been cleaned up

Buju

Big Wall climber

the range of light

Apr 22, 2010 - 12:54am PT

It was cleaned up less than a year after it was made.

There was just no one spraying on the internet about it

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Apr 22, 2010 - 01:04am PT

"It was cleaned up less than a year after it was made."

"Less than a year" ??!! "...spraying on the internet ..."

Bollocks.

Robinson and Jones - you two TRULY suck. Especially you, Robinson, my one-time hero.

Rap bolting AND garbage. Pathetic.

Jesse - why weren't these wankers held to account, or fined, or something?

Hey you guys - please try to imagine this for a minute. Imagine if *I* were to have left a thousand-pound pile of crap at the base of El Cap what the fallout would have been. Or hey, what if I rap bolt something on El Cap, just for sh|ts and giggles?

Buju

Big Wall climber

the range of light

Apr 22, 2010 - 01:07am PT

dude...i cleaned it up, along with a group of other people

I guess I'm just saying that it is old news. And if people don't like Growing Up, go f-in climb it, and see for yourself. We all know how well that worked for Royal Robbins on the Dawn Wall...

Why are we talking about rap bolting on this thread anyway?

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Apr 22, 2010 - 01:07am PT

Thank you, it IS appreciated.

neebee

Social climber

calif/texas

Apr 22, 2010 - 06:21am PT

hey there peter...say, i think i must have missed this.... really wonderful share here... thanks for starting this up.... i always wondered about the back of halfdome...

know i here a name and get to see these neat fabulous photos, too...

say, sean:

what a great share here... thanks so very very much...
fine stuff, well done!

god bless...
:)

neebee

Social climber

calif/texas

Apr 22, 2010 - 06:25am PT

hey there all, say, i was curious what started the thread bump...

sorry guys, i did not read deep enough to hear about all this trash, etc...

sad, always, to hear of trash...
cheers to those that got it cleaned...

i was just stepping in, as to the wonders of the back of the dome...
and happy to see that someone had enjoyed climbing it, and shared...

hope all is well now...

i will go back and read more...
god bless, all...

:)

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Apr 22, 2010 - 10:56am PT

[Accountability bump]

This issue is FAR from "laid to rest" in my mind, and I await the comments of Jesse, Sean and Doug, and of course from our championing prophet of clean climbing Steve Grossman who has made not a single post in the Growing Up thread.

Buju - who are you, please? I would really love to see some before and after photos - could you please post up? What is the condition of the place now compared to when you began your valiant and silent crusade? Once again, thank you.

Buju

Big Wall climber

the range of light

Apr 22, 2010 - 11:30am PT

My name is Roger Putnam. I have lived in Yosemoite for the past 5 years, working for the park service. In my free time, I climb walls.

I work on a wilderness restortation crew. We rove the backcountry and clean up campsites that are either illegal or unsustainable. Last season alone, we worked 503 campsites, mostly in the north end of the park. One of these was Sean Jones'. We have all be doing this type of work for years and I can assure you that that camp has been entirely naturalized. We packed out all of the garbage, cleaned up the fire ring, decompacted the whole footprint, and duffed the area. As I said before, we do this for HUNDREDS of campsites each summer in the park.

If anything, that experience made me psyched to actually go up there someday and work a bit of that climb. The first bunch of pitches look AMAZING!

I definitely do not appreciate smart ass comments about going on a "silent and valient crusade". I definitely did not hear YOU stepping up to go hike up there and carry down all of that garbage. It was pretty tough work. I would liken it to demobilizing from one of your "bigwall camping missions".

Maybe one day I will get a chance to re-meet you at the bridge, Pete.

Cheers,
Roger

Hawkeye

climber

State of Mine

Apr 22, 2010 - 11:46am PT

so buju,

did the taxpayers pay to clean up the site?

what a deal....

Buju

Big Wall climber

the range of light

Apr 22, 2010 - 11:47am PT

Just as they payed for our crew to clean up 502 other messes in the wilderness last year. (that is just the efforts of our crew, and not to mention those of wilderness rangers)

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Apr 22, 2010 - 11:50am PT

Evidently we owe you a few beers, Roger - I'll be on the bridge this spring for sure. When you see me, just ask, you'll have beer in your hand as fast as I can hand it over.

So what you're telling me is this, and please correct me if I'm wrong:

Sean Jones and Doug Robinson left a huge clusterfvck of trash at the base of Half Dome after they completed their route Growing Up by rap-bolting

They hired people to clean up their mess, but those people keffled out on them, and the mess remained

Approximately a thousand pounds of trash lay at the base of the wall for the better part of a year

The Wilderness Restoration Crew, who works for the park service, went in and cleaned up their mess

Are the facts above correct? If not can you please offer any amendments or corrections.

Questions for Roger:

how much garbage [in pounds] did you remove?

what did it consist of? Please be specific.

did you score any good booty?

how many people partook in this exercise?

who were they?

how long did it take you? I would like a reasonable estimate in people/hours/days, something that is measurable, please.

how did the trash get removed - by helicopter, mule, or the old-fashioned way by schlepping?

IMPORTANT: do you have an estimate - a REASONABLE best-guess estimate - as to the TOTAL number of man-hours required to complete this exercise? This will require some thought on your part, sorry, but inquiring minds wish to know.

what is an average hourly rate paid to each person working on this project?

if you used a helicopter, how many flights did it require and for what total duration of time?

what is a reasonable cost estimate for the use of a helicopter? WERNER - you probably know this answer, do you knott?

who paid for this?

what fines and punishment were issued to Sean and Doug?

Jesse, if you know the answers to the questions above, please chime in.

Thank you.

Incidentally, you asked above why we were discussing rap bolting on this thread? We're not, particularly, except in the context that the trash-pile was left by people who rap-bolted the South Face of Half Dome. The reason these questions appear on this thread, is because I happened to be surfing through the forum looking for something else, and came upon this thread where it said that a huge pile of crap had been left at the base of the wall, and hadn't been cleaned up.

Hawkeye

climber

State of Mine

Apr 22, 2010 - 11:57am PT

pretty pathetic that taxpayers had to clean up the mess and the climb is sprayed about in the mags? i am almost speachless....

wildone

climber

GHOST TOWN

Apr 22, 2010 - 12:00pm PT

You know, that campsite was there before we used it. Not to open a big can of worms, but there were gear stashes in the cave up the hill from some pretty damn famous climbers...
And 1000 lbs Pete? Where do you get that figure? I s that including the boulders on top of the ropes?
Seriously dude, what crawled up your a*# and started biting? When I went up to the meadows and left the south face, (admittedly a month or so before those guys cleared out) we had a tupperware bin of medium size with a plastic cutting board, a knife, a coffee cone, some utensils, and aluminum plates. Then, there was the stash of static rope which was in the cave right next to your buddies ropes. The way I see it, when you pay a poor climber to carry that stuff out, and offer to give him 1000 feet of good barely used static rope, and you see him light up with electricity at his good fortune, you consider it a done deal, especially if you have your family in your rig idling in the driveway and you've just sold your house...
Dude took the money and didn't go in there....
And what does this have to do with Laid to Rest?

Onsight, ground up, 750 feet, 5.11c offwidth, chimney, stemming and bridging...

And the rap bolting on growing up?

How come I didn't see a SINGLE one of you crusaders say anything about RETRO bolting a royal robbins route on the NF by a protectable crack???

Sometimes I just don't get it.

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Apr 22, 2010 - 12:08pm PT

Wildone:

It has nothing to do with Laid To Rest. I only ask here because this is the first place I learned that all that stuff had been left behind. However the title of your thread is paradoxically perfect.

I don't know the total weight. That's why I'm asking.

It is regrettable that their paid sherpa keffled out, and stole their money. However it is still the mess-makers' responsibility to clean up after themselves, which they apparently made no further effort to do. Or what efforts they made resulted in nothing.

I most assuredly commented unfavourably on the retro-bolting of Robbins cracks on Half Dome, to the point of hotlinking a photo from the magazine showing buddy clipping a bolt next to what appears to be a perfect Alien crack.

Wildone, are suggesting then, that if you are a "pretty damn famous climber" then it is ok to leave your junk at the base of the route for the park service to clean up?

Before any of us gets too bent out of shape, we should wait to hear from Roger, who can provide facts. Without facts, it's all speculation.

Wade Icey

Trad climber

www.alohashirtrescue.com

Apr 22, 2010 - 12:09pm PT

Recriminations, accusations, gnashing of teeth, hands waving, jaws flapping,tax dollars, libel, slander...nice to be back at the Deli.

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Apr 22, 2010 - 12:11pm PT

Right, so why don't we all STFU now, and wait for Roger and Jesse to respond and provide us with the facts, please?

wildone

climber

GHOST TOWN

Apr 22, 2010 - 12:16pm PT

Asking? I thought you were TELLING us it was 1000 lbs, which is laughable.

As far as "famous", I wasn't justifying any behavior, I was just saying a lot of that mess was already there. I am not a famous climber. In fact, I'm hardly a climber at all. More of a working s.o.b that mtn bikes every day, and hasn't climbed in a long time.

Chief, cool it a little. The rating? This thread, if you remember, is about Laid To Rest. Those are the details of that route. Want to know more? I am one of two people who can tell you.

As for Roger's crew, my girlfriend used to lead that crew for years. Their job was roaming and restoring everything back to natural. They probably would have gone up there and cleaned up that camp had we not ever been there.

wildone

climber

GHOST TOWN

Apr 22, 2010 - 12:20pm PT

My mess? I left in may to go up to Tuolumne to work. I packed my gear out. There were climbers in that camp for, golly, like two more months after I left. At that point I had nothing to do with the project. I didn't pay anyone to carry anything out.

Hawkeye

climber

State of Mine

Apr 22, 2010 - 12:26pm PT

responsibility belongs to the other guy chief..... sad state of affairs as it were....

Buju

Big Wall climber

the range of light

Apr 22, 2010 - 12:26pm PT

Im sorry for speaking up to say it had BEEN CLEANED UP.

Once again, it was certainly not cleaned up by any of the people who love to bitch on the internet about things like this. Do you guys come to the park to clean up other people's messes? Wildone and I both have done this for YEARS, so don't even begin to bitch to us about things like this.

Ben, once again, i'm sorry for speaking up, I should have known that supertopo was too inmature to do anything around this issue other than yell, call names, and behave like babies.

wildone

climber

GHOST TOWN

Apr 22, 2010 - 12:33pm PT

Yeah, back at the deli.
No big deal Roger. Sorry I didn't see you up there last weekend.
Gotta love human nature!

Hawkeye

climber

State of Mine

Apr 22, 2010 - 12:39pm PT

so some famous climbers write a magazine article on a rapp bolted route on HD then leave their mess and taxpayers pay to clean it up and there is not a problem?

glad you guys are out there doing what you do but you dont see a problem with this scenario?

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Apr 22, 2010 - 12:45pm PT

Buju/Roger - will you please answer the questions I posed above? It is the bullet list on the previous page. Please do not misunderstand myself and others - you are not the villain here, quite the contrary. Thank you.

Wildone, can you please answer The Chief's question as to what part you had, if any, in Growing Up?

wildone

climber

GHOST TOWN

Apr 22, 2010 - 12:52pm PT

Wait, I'm "famous" so you should know all about it. It's all in the rags. I don't have time to talk to non-famous climbers. Which is funny because 10000 climbers know your name and about 4 know mine. And they're my friends. And they know I suck at climbing.

Hardman Knott

Gym climber

Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca

Apr 22, 2010 - 12:54pm PT

Do you guys come to the park to clean up other people's messes?

Ever hear of Facelift? A whole lot of people who post here have picked up a shít-ton of other people's messes.

I would like to see Pete's simple questions answered succinctly.

This debacle is worthy of a separate thread - to say the least.

wildone

climber

GHOST TOWN

Apr 22, 2010 - 01:01pm PT

Oh man! The rock police are on to me! Oh man!

tom woods

Gym climber

Bishop, CA

Apr 22, 2010 - 01:10pm PT

I was resistant to chime in but these crazy complainers have a real point.

The route is old news, and in the grand scheme of things a mess that got cleaned up is not a big deal.

This is not about the climb or the clean up, it's about the mess.

A bunch of folks work a route, publish an article, move on, and leave a mess that the Park Service has to pay to clean up?

One of these climbers, is the "father of clean climbing?"

I can see why people are pissed off.

Hardman Knott

Gym climber

Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca

Apr 22, 2010 - 01:14pm PT

Oh man! The rock police are on to me! Oh man!

I guess you also could call Yosemite's lead climbing ranger "the rock police", eh?

I sent Jesse M a copy of his year-old post (from a few pages back), and asked him to comment.

Ihateplastic

Trad climber

It ain't El Cap, Oregon

Apr 22, 2010 - 01:15pm PT

If someone does not answer a direct question doesn't that mean they DID answer the question?

This same issue happened not long ago on Mt. Watkins. I went up there only to discover piles of fixed, rotting ropes, haul bags that had turned to dust in the sun and piles of animal-scavenged food. All clearly (in my opinion so don't rag) the leftovers from people trying to free stuff.

What is more important:
A name in the magazines that will help keep your sponsorship?
Preserving our planet for our children's children?

Apologies to Peter for adding to this thread drift.

Buju

Big Wall climber

the range of light

Apr 22, 2010 - 01:16pm PT

Ben...you better run!

bad boys, bad boys, what cha gonna do?
what 'cha gonna do when they come for you?

Wait, you don't need to run because you are so FAMOUS! As a FAMOUS person, you will be sentanced to a minimum security prison (the bay area) and be forced to ride bikes in your free time.

Pete, here you go:

Questions for Roger:
how much garbage [in pounds] did you remove?/

About 100 pounds, but more was removed by other people (friends of Sean's) before we got there

what did it consist of? Please be specific.

Used propane bottles, a big rubbermaid box, a shredded tarp, a shredded sleeping pad, water bottles, beer cans

did you score any good booty?

A bear can and a camp stove. Others scored ropes.

how many people partook in this exercise?

Our crew consisted of 4 other people. But like I said, friends of Sean's had already done a lot of work up there
//
who were they?//

Members of the NPS wilderness resotration crew.

// how long did it take you? I would like a reasonable estimate in people/hours/days, something that is measurable, please.//

Approxamately 5 hours including hiking time from our base camp at Morraine Dome. IRONICALLY, habout half of that time was after our work day ended, so technically, only half of that time we were on the clock. For the other half we were volunteers.

how did the trash get removed - by helicopter, mule, or the old-fashioned way by schlepping?

On our Backs

IMPORTANT: do you have an estimate - a REASONABLE best-guess estimate - as to the TOTAL number of man-hours required to complete this exercise? This will require some thought on your part, sorry, but inquiring minds wish to know.

4 (people) X 5 (hours) = 20 man/woman hours

what is an average hourly rate paid to each person working on this project?

None of your buisiness

if you used a helicopter, how many flights did it require and for what total duration of time?

No helicopter...that would be ridiculous.

what is a reasonable cost estimate for the use of a helicopter? WERNER - you probably know this answer, do you knott?

Infinity billion dollars

what fines and punishment were issued to Sean and Doug?

None, just as the thousands of people who abuse/leave garbage in the wilderness each year in Yosemite are not fines. I wish all of those people were, but they, in general, are not.

I hope this answers the questions everybody had.

Now lets talk about how awesome Laid to Rest is. (Apparently the people who CLEANED UP THE MESS the mess have gotten over it)

Ihateplastic

Trad climber

It ain't El Cap, Oregon

Apr 22, 2010 - 01:19pm PT

I dropped Doug a line so he can chime in if he desires.

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber

Full Silos of Iowa

Apr 22, 2010 - 01:21pm PT

Sean Jones left us a great quote-

"Climbing is a game....life is a game.....and lucky for us, we're here playing it at all."

Hardman Knott

Gym climber

Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca

Apr 22, 2010 - 01:21pm PT

what is an average hourly rate paid to each person working on this project?

None of your buisiness

How is revealing how our tax dollars are spent "none of your business"?

tom woods

Gym climber

Bishop, CA

Apr 22, 2010 - 01:35pm PT

When you camp in the wilderness, you clean up your mess when you leave. That's basic- leave no trace, the park service pushes this concept.

It cost money, say a couple hundred bucks for the park to clean it up. What the wages are, well you know none of those guys are getting rich doing that work, so who knows. Say ten bucks an hour minimum for crew, and a higher wage for the crew leader- say $15. They could all get paid more, but either way, it's not that pricey.

The price isn't the point. We can't leave messes where we climb.

Edit- Buju is right about talking about how awesome this route is. The pictures are sweet, and so is the obscure history.

I'll move my beef to the already controversial Growing up thread.

JesseM

Social climber

Yosemite

Apr 22, 2010 - 02:17pm PT

Thanks Rodger for handling these questions so well. I agree with everyone here who thinks leaving an impact like this is a big deal. However, I think this debate should be less about who is to blame, and more about how we as a climbing community can work together to take care of our collective impacts.

I must say that leaving trash and abandoning our equipment is just one impact we have. Every time you clean a route and remove lichen or plants that has been established for 1000s of years that is a huge impact. Take a good look a the strips of cleaned rock around the climbs we love. I'm not saying we should stop climbing, but just be aware when we point the finger at someone else.

My point is we all have impacts, and we should work hard on trying to minimize them. Whether that means climbing El Cap ground up without using "abandoned" fixed-ropes, or respecting the space of amazing cliff dwellers like peregrine falcons.

Let me clarify one other thing. I issued citations for this incident (I can't divulge who received them). The two individuals felt horrible about this incident, and accepted there fines humbly without protest. I can't say I've ever had such gracious offenders. These guys, like all of us at some point, had a string of unfortunate events, and they didn't prioritize this clean-up. They tried to get others in the community to help out, and eventually that happened...only the community members happened to be wearing a uniform.

Don't point the finger at Ben/Wildone. He is right to say that he left while the project was still in progress.

Hopefully this will help to relax the situation. BTW, Pete, looking forward to bantering with you over beers at the bridge...when are you coming up and are you bringing the goat with you?

Cheers,

Jesse McGahey

Yosemite Climbing Ranger

Buju

Big Wall climber

the range of light

Apr 22, 2010 - 02:23pm PT

Thanks Jesse

Man...I don't know how you do this all of the time. You are a hero!

-Ro(d)ger Putnam

wildone

climber

GHOST TOWN

Apr 22, 2010 - 02:29pm PT

I shouldn't be such a dick. This is actually an issue I care deeply about. I just see the big picture, that we all have impacts, and when these dudes point the finger at me and then go haul ass in their guzzler every weekend to climb classic routes that were accessed by a trail that didn't exist before people climbed there, on a route that was cleaned with gardening tools on rock that had vegetation ripped out at the base and think this is "pure" or something...it just gets me riled up. My girlfriend and I just went two years without a car- just bikes. We eat almost exclusively out of our garden. I pick up all the trash I see whenever I'm in the woods. No-one wants to give the benefit of the doubt, but they all want to get it.
Our actions seem to say, "I am perfect. It's those "other" guys that aren't." Our brains are so funny.
So, Jesse. I'll be available for some big missions real soon. I'm going to work above the arctic circle a month at a time this summer, but then I'll have a month off in between, so if you need my special capacity for suffering on your team, think of something we can do and give me a call. I know you're no lightweight and I'd love to help.

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Apr 22, 2010 - 02:29pm PT

First off, thanks Roger and Jesse for your forthright answers to my queries. I felt quite indignant that this whole episode initially appeared to me to have been swept under the carpet. I now see that the mess has been cleaned up, and evidently with the issuing of appropriate citations justice has been served, and hopefully lessons learned.

'nuff said about the mess.

However I strongly and emphatically disagree with the rap bolting of Half Dome, and will continue to strongly condemn it in the other thread, and offer my support to those willing to properly and cleanly remove the rap-placed bolts.

Jesse, I'm saddened to report that Eva the inflatable sheep has met her demise, firstly from over-enthusiastic wall buggering and ultimately at the teeth of Max the dog. However Wee-Wee the Big Wall Crab and I are looking forward to beers on the bridge with you and the rest of the gang towards the end of May and throughout June. I am always amazed and delighted that we can share beers out in public in Yosemite without catching any flak from the rangers as long as we're not [obviously] intoxicated, I don't suppose you know why this is so?

Cheers and beers,
Pete

wildone

climber

GHOST TOWN

Apr 22, 2010 - 02:31pm PT

Resort-town status as far as the open-container laws go.

JesseM

Social climber

Yosemite

Apr 22, 2010 - 02:33pm PT

Yo Rodg, so funny I can't spell your name without the d, probably because we always enunciate the dg sound. Looks like its about to storm again...I'm thinking that the Cathedral Peak Project is going to start late this summer. When do you think the snow pack will melt out enough to start the work?

On that note let me be the first to predict that Tioga Pass will not open in 2010 until after Memorial Day...which means more crowds in Yosemite Valley...everyone likes the moving parking lot!

Tork

climber

Yosemite

Apr 22, 2010 - 02:33pm PT

Ro(d)ger, get back to work! More tax dollers being wasted!

Kidding of course

Thanks guys for all the info and hard work!

Now back to a great thread!

Buju

Big Wall climber

the range of light

Apr 22, 2010 - 02:36pm PT

No worries...yall!

Ben, Im sorry i missed ya when you were in town. My mother was in town and we were keeping it chill at home.

Pete, I was a part of that party that passed you on the Trip last year. I got to meet we-wee...pretty funny stuff. You got big plans for this season?

hahaha....thanks Jeff! seriously...

couchmaster

climber

pdx

Apr 22, 2010 - 02:36pm PT

I normally don't like most rangers but I can see that exceptions like Link, and now Jesse, happily are still there to help me change my mind on that.

Thanks Jesse.

Some of you other guys need to lighten up a tad...oh wait: this is the internet. Nevermind.

JesseM

Social climber

Yosemite

Apr 22, 2010 - 02:45pm PT

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention Wildone's selfless participation in one of the nastiest jobs you can do in Yosemite Wilderness...

Cleaning up Camp 6 (of the Nose)

We've been working towards mining out the garbage on this one since 2006, and every year we've made great progress. The crack has less and less stuff jammed in their every year we go back. Wildone helped me in 2007 or '08 (can't remember right now) when we rapped in from the top and hauled a full (largest Metolious size) haulbag of garbage including some crappy collections of human excrement.

This guy is committed to keeping Yosemite clean, and his actions show his commitment to the Earth as well. Really, no car Ben? How do you do that? Like, how would you get to the crags? Oh yeah, you can take a bus right into Yosemite Valley. But, I thought only Euros did that.

Jesse

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Apr 22, 2010 - 02:45pm PT

I am available to help out on the remote cleanups too....

it is much better when the climbing community figures out how to manage the largely unplanned abandonment of gear by itself then to have the NPS do it for us, by regulation and citation... but maybe the community is so dysfunctional that it can't organize... another aspect might be there are only a few out there doing things, and the rest of us are sitting on our butts back at home wanking our keyboards...

...like Russ said in his unique style: "opinions are like as#@&%es, everybody has one." I've heard a lot of bitching over this issue but not a lot of action, ultimately the NPS went in and cleaned up... and HMK even found a way of dinging them with a stupid comment about transparency...

last time I heard, heli cost was like $600/hr, for the purpose of an order-of-magnitude cost estimate, that would be $1000/hr...

fully loaded employee costs are not more than $120k/yr... roughly 2000 hr/yr gives of order $50/hr (I know, it's $60/hr if you actually do the division, and note that the employee cost is part of that, there is the overhead costs folded in; "fully loaded")...

you don't have to be a rocket scientist to estimate the labor costs...

but I can use the exercise walking stuff out on my back...
...and so can many of the people crying about the outrage on this thread. If you feel strongly, come and help out...

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Apr 22, 2010 - 02:51pm PT

Chief

to invite the NPS to regulate our activities is a disaster...

can't you see that?

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Apr 22, 2010 - 02:53pm PT

Good work, Roger and Jesse!

JesseM

Social climber

Yosemite

Apr 22, 2010 - 03:00pm PT

Thanks Ed for reminding folks that they don't want the likes of me to micromanage climbing in Yosemite. I for one definitely don't want to spend my time in court trying to recoup the costs for every piece of work I have to do to correct actions of the climbing community...or any user group for that matter.

edit: [Chief, thanks for reiterating the core message. When you leave, pack it out!]

Hardman Knott

Gym climber

Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca

Apr 22, 2010 - 03:13pm PT

and HMK even found a way of dinging them with a stupid comment about transparency...

If you are referring to me, what comment was that?

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber

Livermore, CA

Apr 22, 2010 - 03:16pm PT

HMK,

How is revealing how our tax dollars are spent "none of your business"?

tom woods

Gym climber

Bishop, CA

Apr 22, 2010 - 03:17pm PT

The story changes once the people were cited.

I'm not a fine guy, more of a clean it up and say your sorry type. But a fine is fine too. The more important point is that the NPS is not ignoring this type of action and is actually more responsive than most people think-

Hence three employees speaking here, a clean up, and the citations.

Hardman Knott

Gym climber

Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca

Apr 22, 2010 - 03:26pm PT

Ed - how is that a "stupid comment"?

Keep in mind this was prior to Jesse M stating that those responsible received citations...

Buju

Big Wall climber

the range of light

Apr 22, 2010 - 04:31pm PT

HMK...I make 14.05 an hour, no health insurance, no dental, no retirement.

I clean up people's messes in the wilderness yet somehow manage get flack about it on supertopo. ahhh internet...

how much do YOU make an hour?

Hawkeye

climber

State of Mine

Apr 22, 2010 - 05:00pm PT

buju,

the unfortunate part of your employmnet is that there would appear to be way too much job security...

wildone

climber

GHOST TOWN

Apr 22, 2010 - 05:07pm PT

I always said they paid us in sunsets.

Banquo

Trad climber

Morgan Hill, CA

Apr 22, 2010 - 06:57pm PT

Benford's law of controversy comes to mind.

We are just about up to the point where Godwin's Law will come into play.

Off White

climber

Tenino, WA

Apr 22, 2010 - 07:40pm PT

Jesus Fuuck, reading this makes me wonder who invited the Tea Party to the Tacostand? Whole lotta thunderous posturing going on around here. And to think I thought staying out of the political threads would shield me from this dreck. Where's an eye rolling emoticon when you need one?

pk_davidson

Trad climber

Albuquerque, NM

Apr 23, 2010 - 01:20pm PT

LMAO - right on bro white, my thoughts eggzaxctly
(I propose we add a TP category so this kinda spew can get stuffed there and out of good TRs)

Here's the one shining point I see in all of this ranting drift:
The most reasoned voice is the Feds! After years of being lost in the Bush, who'd a thunk the voice of reason would come from that angle!?
Tx Jesse, and a toast to the rest of you who spend your time humping out crap for a barely liveable wage.

Back to our normally scheduled thread:
Awesome pics, awesome looking climbs.

Ghost

climber

A long way from where I started

Apr 23, 2010 - 02:20pm PT

We are just about up to the point where Godwin's Law will come into play.

So if I make some comment about ethics Nazis, will that push us over the Godwin threshold?

ß Î Ø T Ç H

climber

Jan 4, 2011 - 05:14pm PT

One of murcy's shots from the facelift thread. LTR or COTW?

jstan

climber

Jan 4, 2011 - 06:51pm PT

I must have missed this thread thinking it was a TR. Just a couple of things.

Regardless of what was actually said here, maybe the fact the thread happened will have good effects after the dust and smoke have drifted away.

At the least it suggests a non-negligible number of people feel an hour spent cleaning up is more productive than an hour spent climbing. One needs doing. The other, not so much.

wildone

climber

Troy, MT

Jan 5, 2011 - 06:06am PT

That shot is looking at the rock just to the right of LTR. You can see just a little bit of it halfway up the photo, and that is off route anyway. The bushy ledge at the base of that corner is very hard to get up onto without resorting to aid.

MisterE

Social climber

Bouncy Tiggerville

Jan 5, 2011 - 01:21pm PT

Missed this one the first time around.

Thanks for posting this Peter, it lead to an excellent TR by Sean! Badass!!

Peter Haan

Trad climber

San Francisco, CA

Topic Author's Reply - Jan 5, 2011 - 03:29pm PT

Bio,
If you go to the beginning of this thread, you will see a photo I took showing Laid to Rest on the left and Call of the Wild on the right, a tree in between. Shot in 1975, july. Then on post #20 you will see a shot only of Laid to Rest with a bunch of detail revealed on the outside (and to the right) of the Laid to Rest dihedral, suggesting more climbing out there. Wildone, that little roof you think is Call of the Wild is not Call of the Wild but some small feature on the wall between them, as you can see from the original photo, post #1.