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Apr 13, 2009 - 09:22pm PT
Yeah they don't even have a clue that they are being slaughtered and enslaved right now this very minute as we speak.

And that has nothing to do with Christianity.

Social climber
Apr 13, 2009 - 09:25pm PT
I don't think my tour guide for the slave market in Zanzibar said anything about Christianity but maybe I missed that part.

Edit: Dr.F have you seen all those people lined up to do good deeds over there in Somalia lately? Man is inherently good isn't he. The need to do good just oozes from our pores.

Apr 13, 2009 - 09:30pm PT
GDavis: "Imagine the school telling your daughter that she can have abortions without her parents knowing about it."

This statement is a classic example of how Christians believe that morality and values in our society can only be accomplished by the presence of religion and Christianity in our society. Pretty feckin' presumptuous, if you ask me.

Is your religion-blindered mind really so indoctrinated as to believe that morality and social goodness can only be accomplished through your belief system? (Rhetorical question, I know.)

Trad climber
Quartz Hill, California
Apr 13, 2009 - 09:33pm PT
Too many people have lied in the name of Christ
For anyone to heed the call.
So many people have died in the name of Christ
That I can't believe it all.

Enough said for me !


Social climber
Apr 13, 2009 - 09:34pm PT

Whoever we are
Wherever were from
We shoulda noticed by now
Our behavior is dumb
And if our chances
Expect to improve
Its gonna take a lot more
Than tryin to remove
The other race
Or the other whatever
From the face
Of the planet altogether

They call it the earth
Which is a dumb kinda name
But they named it right
cause we behave the same...
We are dumb all over
Dumb all over,
Yes we are
Dumb all over,
Near n far
Dumb all over,
Black n white
People, we is not wrapped tight

Nurds on the left
Nurds on the right
Religous fanatics
On the air every night
Sayin the bible
Tells the story
Makes the details
Sound real gory
bout what to do
If the geeks over there
Dont believe in the book
We got over here

You can't run a race
Without no feet
n pretty soon
There wont be no street
For dummies to jog on
Or doggies to dog on
Religous fanatics
Can make it be all gone
(I mean it wont blow up
n disappear
Itll just look ugly
For a thousand years...)

You can't run a country
By a book of religion
Not by a heap
Or a lump or a smidgeon
Of foolish rules
Of ancient date
Designed to make
You all feel great
While you fold, spindle
And mutilate
Those unbelievers
From a neighboring state

To arms! to arms!
Hooray! thats great
Two legs aint bad
Unless there's a crate
They ship the parts
To mama in
For souvenirs: two ears (get down!)
Not his, not hers, (but what the hey? )
The good book says:
(it gotta be that way!)
But their book says:
Revenge the crusades...
With whips n chains
n hand grenades...
Two arms? two arms?
Have another and another
Our God says:
There aint no other!
Our God says
Its all okay!
Our God says
This is the way!

It says in the book:
Burn n destroy...
n repent, n redeem
n revenge, n deploy
n rumble thee forth
To the land of the unbelieving scum on the other side
cause they dont go for whats in the book
n that makes em bad
So verily we must choppeth them up
And stompeth them down
Or rent a nice french bomb
To poof them out of existance
While leaving their real estate just where we need it
To use again
For temples in which to praise our god
(cause he can really take care of business!)

And when his humble tv servant
With humble white hair
And humble glasses
And a nice brown suit
And maybe a blond wife who takes phone calls
Tells us our God says
Its okay to do this stuff
Then we gotta do it,
cause if we don't do it,
We aint gwine up to hebbin!
(depending on which book youre using at the
Time...cant use theirs... it dont work
...its all lies...gotta use mine...)
Aint that right?
Thats what they say
Every night...
Every day...
Hey, we cant really be dumb
If were just following gods orders
Hey, lets get serious...
God knows what hes doin
He wrote this book here
An the book says:
He made us all to be just like him,
If were dumb...
Then God is dumb...
(an maybe even a little ugly on the side)

Trad climber
Apr 13, 2009 - 09:37pm PT
"Everyone," doesn't, hate Christianity.

Trad climber
Pasadena, CA
Apr 13, 2009 - 09:44pm PT
I lied - one more post on the subject.

This video is really eye opening. It asks the question "What if God disappeared" and the resulting hypothesis is rather striking:


Social climber
Apr 13, 2009 - 10:00pm PT
72hw - just curious. Have you ever watched any of the John Lennox debates?

Apr 13, 2009 - 10:05pm PT
Dr F and the other antichrists

You said it, many times

Now why are you trying to cram it down the theists throats?

Hypocrites .....

Apr 13, 2009 - 10:22pm PT
Dr F -- "We just want you to open your mind to the possibility of nothing,..."


Trad climber
Pasadena, CA
Apr 13, 2009 - 10:23pm PT
Re: The Lennox Debates

Yes, indeed I have listened to a few, as I recall with Prof. Dawkins and one set in a more round table format with other leading theists and agnostics/atheists. Very interesting stuff as I recall and Lennox gave a clear voice to the issues in a very noble way. I remain unmoved in my convictions however, and whole heartedly stand behind the notion that faith and science are utterly opposed.
The Warbler

the edge of America
Apr 13, 2009 - 10:31pm PT

Tricky & Costanza Francavilla :

Dear God
Hope you got the message, and
I pray you can make it better down here
I don't mean a big reduction in the price of beer
But all the people that you made in your image
See them starving on their feet
'Cause they don't get enough to eat
From God, I can't believe in you
I can't believe in you

Dear God
Sorry to disturb you, but
I feel that I should be heard loud and clear
We all need a big reduction in amount of tears
And all the people that you made in your image
See them fighting in the street
'Cause they can't make opinions meet about God
I can't believe in you
I can't believe

Did you make disease
I can't believe
And the diamond blue?
I don't believe
Did you make mankind after we made you?
I can't believe
And the devil too
I don't believe
I can't believe

Dear God
Don't know if you noticed, but
Your name is on a lot of quotes in this book
And us crazy humans wrote it, you should take a look
And all the people that you made in your image still believing that junk exist
Well I know it ain't, and so do you
Dear God
I can't believe in
I don't believe in
I don't believe

I won't believe in heaven and hell
No saints, no sinners, no devil as well
No pearly gates, no thorny crown
You're always letting us humans down
The wars you bring, the babes you drown
Those lost at sea and never found
And it's the same the whole world 'round
The hurt I see helps to compound
That Father, Son and Holy Ghost
Is just somebody's unholy hoax
And if you're up there you'd perceive
That my heart's here upon my sleeve
If there's one thing I don't believe in

It's you

Boulder climber
Apr 13, 2009 - 10:32pm PT
This is my kind of church!

THe First Baptist Bar and Grill - song by Tim Wilson


ps. Did the "forced to go to church" as a kid. Good idea, but sometimes the wrong application. Didn't get the act like an a$$hole 6 days a week and get a go to heaven ticket on sunday at church. It's everyday decency or nothing!

A little to the left of right
Apr 13, 2009 - 10:35pm PT
Spot > "Did the "forced to go to church" as a kid. Good idea, but sometimes the wrong application. Didn't get the act like an a$$hole 6 days a week and get a go to heaven ticket on sunday at church. It's everyday decency or nothing! "


I have no problem with the gist of Christianity, just don't particularly like the Hypocracy of it's followers.

Social climber
Apr 13, 2009 - 10:40pm PT
72hw - I like the intelligent debate and I enjoy Lennox's disarming style. No need to cram anything down anybody's throat. Discussion of opposing views can often be enlightening and entertaining. No need for aggressive posturing, rhetoric, or anger to be involved.

the Moon and Antarctica
Apr 13, 2009 - 10:42pm PT
Well, y'know, how much can you really say about a trip report anyway? Wow. Cool. Proud. Bet you had an awesome time. Wish we were there. But if you want to know why everyone hates something, well, now you can get a discussion going.
I don't hate Christians much, the ones around today I mean. They're all pretty weak sauce compared to the ones who founded the cult in the first place. A lot of skeletons in the closet, that's for sure. I wish they would open their minds to more of what's real and jettison the bullshit parts of their artificial mythology, get on with their own lives instead of dwelling on an imaginary afterlife and such, but if that's what pushes their buttons, I don't hate them for being true to themselves.

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 13, 2009 - 10:43pm PT
Flip Wilson belonged to the best church,

Trad climber
Pasadena, CA
Apr 13, 2009 - 10:58pm PT
Jbar - I agree with you on the debate thing. When conversation devolves into Ad Hominem it ceases to be valid.

My earlier posts were in keeping with the original, playful tone of this thread, and I apologize if I gave any other impression. Especially where it might concern Lennox - one of the few voices I find myself agreeing with on many things even though he represents an opposing view from mine. Hence my compliment to him above.

Most of the debates I have listened to featuring Lennox revolved around the question of whether science and faith are reconcilable you see, so I was merely pointing out he had not changed my mind, but was indeed a very eloquent voice on the subject.

I do believe I made a promise earlier to discontinue posting on this thread - must be my lack of a moral compass that has led me astray...



Trad climber
Idaho Falls
Apr 13, 2009 - 10:58pm PT
It’s not accurate to blame “Christianity” for the Spanish Inquisition or blame “Marxism” for murders committed by psychopaths such as Lenin, Stalin and Beria.

The Spanish Inquisition was started in 1478 by Spanish Monarchs, Ferdinand and Isabella, to replace the medieval inquisition that had been under papal control. It was under direct control of the monarchy. The medieval inquisition, as an ecclesiastical tribunal, had jurisdiction only over baptized Christians, and punishment was usually less harsh than requiring the “guilty” to go on a pilgrimage.

The Spanish Inquisition was motivated by the multi- religious nature of the country after the Moorish (Muslim) conquests and the large population of Jews. Pope Innocent was against Ferdinand and Isabella starting a harsher tribunal under their own authority. Their inquisition resulted in execution of 3,000 to 5,000, mostly Jews and Muslims, and a few Protestants.

Karl Marx would have been mortified by the blood and oppression in the Russian communist movement. Although not a moralist, he proposed the creation of classless, productive and congruous society. He advocated change through organized revolutionary action, but the mass starvation and murder of millions of peasants goes well against the grain of his theory.

It would take bullies and authoritarians, like Lenin, to insist that large-scale killing would be necessary to bring about the communist utopia. Lenin had little mercy for traditionalists or political opponents and that set the stage for Stalin, Beria, etc who would murder, starve and oppress to preserve their own personal power and gratify their own aggressive, anti-social and sexual impulses.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Social climber
valley center, ca
Apr 13, 2009 - 11:22pm PT
Dr. F...."I hate it (hate is a really ugly word, are you sure you hate ?) because it is based on a myth and a lie." Do you also hate all the Greek myths and Toddler Nursery Rhymes ? :)
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