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GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Feb 23, 2014 - 11:04pm PT
This is a fun thread to get drunk and read.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Feb 23, 2014 - 11:20pm PT
People that are delusional are not intelligent.

Ah, Malemute, you're on the wrong track with that. There is no shortage of very intelligent people who are totally bugf*#k crazy.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Feb 23, 2014 - 11:46pm PT
I'm sure there are, but how many delusional people do you know that are intelligent?
Are they really delusional, or just pretending to be?

if A implies B, B does not imply A
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Feb 23, 2014 - 11:56pm PT
^^^What about Clinton or Gore or Bush&Bush
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Feb 26, 2014 - 05:34pm PT
“And here’s how Einstein answered the question: He said there really are two kinds of God’s, we have to be very scientific, we have to define what you mean by, ‘God’. If God is the God of intervention, the personal God, the God of prayer, the God that parts the waters, then he had a hard time believing in that, would God listen to all our prayers for, a bicycle for Christmas, and, smite the Philistines for me please (points in front of him as if pointing to them). He didn’t think so, however he believed in the God of order, harmony, beauty, simplicity and elegance; the God of Spinoza. That’s the God that he believed in, because he thought the universe was so gorgeous. It didn’t have to be that way, it could have been chaotic, it could have been ugly, messy. But here we have the fact that all the equations of physics, can be placed on a simple sheet of paper.”
Michio Kaku
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Feb 26, 2014 - 05:40pm PT
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Feb 26, 2014 - 06:32pm PT

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 26, 2014 - 07:34pm PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#346819
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Feb 27, 2014 - 07:46pm PT
Open Letter to a Fellow Atheist
—Ace

I published this (in rawer form) as a response to Seattle Slough, who is not really a troll, but does come here to disagree.

I don't mind that he disagrees. He does get a bit insulting, but it's the Internet-- what do you expect? I'm going to insult him (a bit) in this post.

Internet rules. What can you do.

But having written a response to him, and needing some content, I've decided to pop this out as a post.

We start with his quote, in my usual effed-up manner of quotation:

>>> Let me ask you:
Do you believe the Earth is less than 20,000 years old?
Do you believe in a world-wide flood?
Do you deny the theory of evolution?

If the answer to any of these is "yes" you are a fool. If the answer is "no" you deny the Bible as divine truth.

...

Seattle, being a non-believer myself, I agree with you that these things are not true.

Here is where I depart from you: Calling someone who does believe them a fool.

Was Blaise Pascal a fool? Before you answer, you should look him up on Wikipedia. He was quite brilliant. Incredibly brilliant, actually. Also, a religious Christian zealot (I think he'd agree with that characterization).

Was Isaac Newton a fool? I trust you know enough about him to know he was no fool.

Was William Wilberforce a fool? If you have to Wiki him, do so.

What you are doing is taking your lack of inquisitiveness (which I share) for some explanation as to What It All Means (I don't know that it means much of anything, and I suspect you feel similarly) as your demarcation between "fool" and, I guess, a wise man such as yourself.

There are a lot of brilliant men -- far more brilliant than you could dream -- in history, who not only believed in God (and Jesus), and not only were not "fools," but were in fact smarter than you (or, even myself, ego compels me to say, though it's a somewhat closer call) could ever hope to be.

You are guilty not of atheism (which is not a crime) but the great sin of our age, the great Vanity, that of Tribalism.

You believe that your membership in a tribe makes you superior to others; I think your devotion to a tribe makes you inferior.

You are desperately searching for affirmation of self in trivial proofs. I believe this, I don't believe that; ergo, I'm superior.

You might as well be basing your ego upon your favorite ice cream flavor.

Like you, I am an atheist (or, agnostic/Deist/atheist depending on the day). Like you, I do not believe anything in the Bible, except for some small things like I'm pretty sure a man named Jesus lived and caused a bit of ruckus.

But to me, this is about as much evidence of my superiority over my fellow man as my interest in True Detective.

You are establishing, in your mind, a hierarchy of persons, from wise to fool, based upon your own idiosyncratic What's Hot/What's Not list.

Here is an eye-opener for you: Some people wonder more about the First Mover than you or I do. Some people find scientific explanations implausible or unsatisfying.

This does not make them fools; it makes them of a different personality type than you or I.

Now, you will say they're wrong about what they believe; I'll say I agree with you.

But you are essentially doing the same thing a gay-hater does when he knocks him for being gay. The religious were born with a quixotic nature, a need to look beyond the tangible and mundane.

You and I weren't.

We should no more be "proud" of this than we're proud of our sexualities or our eye color.

The Vanity of our age is to find more and more trivial proofs that we matter. That we count. That we're better.

Politics, religion, racial or gender identity, sexual preference... all of it. We stupidly look at the world with eyes full of greed for proof that We Matter. We're Better. We're Special.

There is more to the world than that, if you look. Even if you don't believe in any god.

Some religious people find meaning, and personal validation, in Jesus. Some others seem to find a great deal too much meaning and personal validation in not believing in Jesus.

Let it go. Let vanity go.

I have a theory, which I frankly have not thought about very hard, but my theory is that Vanity is the handmaiden of all other sins.

For no other sin can be undertaken without causing a revulsion in the conscience except that Vanity -- or as a modernist would term it, ego, the Almighty I -- makes up a complicated and nonsense justification for that sin.

Let it go man. Let it go.

So I guess this makes me an agnostic Deist Buddhist or something.

Who knows. Who cares.

Go with God, or, if you like it better, go without him.

But get over your ego. You'll move faster and lighter without it.

http://ace.mu.nu/
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Mar 2, 2014 - 09:53am PT
“Now, what's the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all? If there's no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists? Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true. Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder. What I'm asking you to do comes down to believing, in the absence of evidence, on my say-so.”
Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
go-B

climber
John 6:44
Mar 2, 2014 - 05:22pm PT
John 8:12 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”

...more than a candle! :)
dirtbag

climber
Mar 2, 2014 - 05:48pm PT
Go-B,

I hope you realize the Bible has been extensively edited by mortals.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Mar 2, 2014 - 06:57pm PT
The bible says god created the 10 commandments on stone tablets.
Moses wasn't up there with a chisel & a hammer.

So why doesn't god create bibles?
Because god is an idea, and can't directly manipulate matter.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Mar 10, 2014 - 12:08am PT
The Argument for the Remedying of Injustice
Then there is another very curious form of moral argument, which is this: they say that the existence of God is required in order to bring justice into the world. In the part of this universe that we know there is great injustice, and often the good suffer, and often the wicked prosper, and one hardly knows which of those is the more annoying; but if you are going to have justice in the universe as a whole you have to suppose a future life to redress the balance of life here on earth. So they say that there must be a God, and there must be Heaven and Hell in order that in the long run there may be justice. That is a very curious argument. If you looked at the matter from a scientific point of view, you would say, "After all, I only know this world. I do not know about the rest of the universe, but so far as one can argue at all on probabilities one would say that probably this world is a fair sample, and if there is injustice here the odds are that there is injustice elsewhere also." Supposing you got a crate of oranges that you opened, and you found all the top layer of oranges bad, you would not argue, "The underneath ones must be good, so as to redress the balance." You would say, "Probably the whole lot is a bad consignment"; and that is really what a scientific person would argue about the universe. He would say, "Here we find in this world a great deal of injustice, and so far as that goes that is a reason for supposing that justice does not rule in the world; and therefore so far as it goes it affords a moral argument against deity and not in favor of one." Of course I know that the sort of intellectual arguments that I have been talking to you about are not what really moves people. What really moves people to believe in God is not any intellectual argument at all. Most people believe in God because they have been taught from early infancy to do it, and that is the main reason.

Then I think that the next most powerful reason is the wish for safety, a sort of feeling that there is a big brother who will look after you. That plays a very profound part in influencing people's desire for a belief in God.

from
Why I Am Not A Christian
by Bertrand Russell
vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Mar 10, 2014 - 12:51am PT
I had my coworker who is Indian, with no predisposition to Christianity, but also vegetarian - read John 6:53-58:

53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate, and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”

He almost puked..

'You are what you eat' is not so new of the idea apparently?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 10, 2014 - 01:16am PT
It brings into play the question of those who absolutely, positively believe that the bible is the actual true written word of God, and that everything in it must be taken as literal truth......any here?

So is Jesus advocating cannibalism? Is that the only way to Heaven?

Could any of the literalists explain that?
WBraun

climber
Mar 10, 2014 - 01:19am PT
"So is Jesus advocating cannibalism? Is that the only way to Heaven?"

Why ask stupid questions?

Scientist make experiment to see.

Start eating people and find out ......

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Mar 10, 2014 - 01:26am PT
The bible says god created the 10 commandments on stone tablets.
Moses wasn't up there with a chisel & a hammer.

So why doesn't god create bibles?
Because god is an idea, and can't directly manipulate matter.

Believe what you will.

God, if you believe in all that stupid sh#t, watches you. Even if you fail to acknowledge this, you can feel it.

God and his minions, are here to help us. Some of you will spit on his friends, some will disregard Him, but Jesus lives.
WBraun

climber
Mar 10, 2014 - 01:29am PT
Matter is the inferior energy of God.

Even an "Idea" is non different from God.

The atheist class is very unintelligent ......
vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Mar 10, 2014 - 01:33am PT
Looks like Jseus believed in his words. Did it work out?

Christianity started as cannibalistic cult and was run that way for the first 300 years, Christ flash and blood passed down the line by consuming the bodies of sect members who had his flash and blood in them. But then they decided to soften up a bit. Cannibalism was not widely accepted in Roman society at that time to put it mildly, and to gain popularity Christians turned all that into allegory of sort. Religion is an instrument of power after all, and back then religion was The instrument of power. So they betrayed Christ and terminated that chain of passing his flash to new generations and making him live forever as he believed, all for the political gains.
What else is new.
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