"The 10d Crack" Hardman List

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 1 - 130 of total 130 in this topic
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 10, 2009 - 02:11pm PT
So I don't know if this was just my partners at the time, rumor, hearsay, lies or half truths, or something I read in a Largo article. But there used to be a series of 10d cracks [in Yosemite Valley] that if you could or did lead all of them you could ONLY then consider yourself a "5.10 climber"

I'd appreciate any help in classifying this mythical series of 10d cracks.

The ones that stick out in my mind are...

2173. Yin-Yang 5.10d **
1338. Ten Years After 5.10d ***
1364. Lazy Bum 5.10d **
1514. Serenity Crack 5.10d ***
2146. Vanishing Point 5.10d **
2161. Manana 5.10d **
2431. The Thief 5.10d **
421. Cramming 5.10d ***
589. Five and Dime 5.10d ***
1140. The Good Book 5.10d ***
106. Finger Lickin' 5.10d *** 10d can't get any harder





possibly also this, but it was so far away, it usually wasn't in the discussion...

1744. Final Exam 5.10d ***

Catchy dropped to 'one move wonder' off the list.

204. Catchy 5.10d ***

added to OP, but not in list...

The Mark of Art 5.10d **


thx Clint for the organization of routes!
others from Clint's list of routes...
Thin Crack ( < 1")

223. Terminator - Right 5.10d *
343. Brainbucket 5.10d
369. White Cloud 5.10d
418. Humdinger 5.10d *
510. Olga's Trick 5.10d *
681. Little Wing 5.10d **
765. The Slack - Center 5.10d
967. Supertoe 5.10d
1338. Ten Years After 5.10d ***
1364. Lazy Bum 5.10d **
1514. Serenity Crack 5.10d ***
1516. Daughters' Direct 5.10+
1977. Dr. Feel Good 5.10d *
2146. Vanishing Point 5.10d **
2161. Manana 5.10d **
2297. Central Pillar of Frenzy 5.10d ***
2394. Tidbit 5.10d *
2431. The Thief 5.10d **
621. Mighty Crunchy 5.10d/5.11a *

Thin Hand (1"-1.25")


204. Catchy 5.10d ***
421. Cramming 5.10d ***
573. Independence Pinnacle - Center 5.10d *
589. Five and Dime 5.10d ***


Fist

1744. Final Exam 5.10d ***
2022. Wide Thing 5.10d *

full list here of climbs by type...

http://www.stanford.edu/~clint/yos/YOSTYP.HTM
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Apr 10, 2009 - 02:21pm PT
I led five of your original list onsight.
And gawd knows how many other 5.10's in the valley.
I don't get to call myself a 5.10 climber?
Geez....harsh.
All this time I thought I was.

I seem to recall Catchy being rated 10c BITD?

Damn....I suck.

Isn't Mr. Natural 10d?
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Apr 10, 2009 - 02:21pm PT
Finger Licking 10d**- hardest 10d- ever (Reid book said something like " 10d can't get any harder" - agreed)

Edit:I would add to list Mark of the Art , Good Book and Waverly Wafer and make "soft for 10d- Catchy and Serenity
Also many more we already discussed in 2007:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=442592&tn=0&mr=0

Oplopanax

Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
Apr 10, 2009 - 02:21pm PT
"The 10d offwidth", Castle Hill NZ...
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2009 - 02:25pm PT
Opl, sorry mang, this was only Valley 10d's. I edited my first post to clarify the cornfusion.

Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2009 - 02:26pm PT
Alexey!

YES!!

That's the capstone one. Like people saved it for last, building to it.

edited first post, thx!
Rankin

climber
Bishop, CA
Apr 10, 2009 - 02:30pm PT
Mr. Natural was called 10c when I did it, but who knows, maybe my buddy was sandbagging me. Wouldn't be the first time.
How about The Good Book and Twilight Zone. Aren't those 10d?
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Apr 10, 2009 - 02:31pm PT
Yeah man, Good Book for sure!
At least for me.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 10, 2009 - 02:31pm PT
Little Wing, Manana, and The Thief are all significantly better than Cramming, starwise, IMHO, FWIW.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Apr 10, 2009 - 02:32pm PT
I don't see where Central Pillar fits in. I've done it to the top, which definitely amps the grade above 5.9, but as best I can recall the hardest bit up there was moving from a thin seam onto face moves at about .10+...
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2009 - 02:32pm PT
I thought Mr. Natural was 10c, Survival? Isn't it lower angle as well?

Not that I have done any of these in perfect style, or even seen all of them ... yet.


goals baby, gotta have goals!



Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2009 - 02:34pm PT
yeah, Good Book may have been in there.


We didn't think of Twilight Zone in that list. 10d OW was like something profane or entirely holy that was unobtainable back then for us punters. Maybe it's a case of repressed memory.
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Apr 10, 2009 - 02:35pm PT
Lower angle? Uh...yeah.
But it still about bit my *ss off. Maybe I was having a bad day?
Seemed like 10d to me...
But then again, I'm WWWWEEEEEAAAAKKK!!

The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 10, 2009 - 02:35pm PT
What about English Breakfast Crack and Leanie Meanie - aren't those 10d?

EDIT: And speaking of Arch Rock - 1st pitch of New Dimensions?


Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Apr 10, 2009 - 02:36pm PT
Kris,

On Central Pillar of Frenzy, the topo says on p9: 5.10d thin, so that is how it ended up on the list that way. Looks like it should be changed to face type.
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Apr 10, 2009 - 02:38pm PT
I thought EB crack was 10c....man, I'm all effed up!

All those days scratchin' away at them crags and sleepin' on walls for days on end and I'm NOT a hardman...
WWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
Nefarius

Big Wall climber
Fresno
Apr 10, 2009 - 02:41pm PT
Leanie Meanie is .11a, I believe. Definitely not .10d

1338. Ten Years After 5.10d ***
Great climb. Thought this was .10c? I could very well be wrong though. (maybe I'm thinking of 10 Days After? Falls Amphitheater Definitely not thin hands. )

1514. Serenity Crack 5.10d ***
Pretty sure this shouldn't be on a "hardman" list. It's more a one move wonder.

573. Independence Pinnacle - Center 5.10d *
Damn, that thing looks good!!!
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Apr 10, 2009 - 02:41pm PT


Clint,

As I recall it was making the transition and the following commitment which was cruxy. Not pure crack climbing in any case.

The thing I remember most about that ascent was looking down and watching some dirtball going through our packs at the base while we were up there...
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2009 - 02:41pm PT
I don't think Central Pillar was part of the list. This wasn't all known 10ds, or even all 10ds that were good, but I really don't know what I'm talking about here anyways.


Let's hear some reasons from folks why certain routes should be in or out.



oops, sorry, the 'list' I'm talking about is the subset list not Clint's list culled from another post.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 10, 2009 - 02:42pm PT
Survival,

If it's rated 10c, I think it's harder. I remember trying harder on that, at the end of the pitch, than on Catchy.

Maybe I was botchin' the sequence.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 10, 2009 - 02:43pm PT
Crucifix, the way Bridwell and I did it (with aid), has plenty 'o 10d.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2009 - 02:43pm PT
Survival, hey if the old dads on this forum say youz is a hard man, then you can claim hard man status.

:)

ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
Apr 10, 2009 - 02:49pm PT
I say:

Out with Serenity. Great climb, very short crux.

In with the Good Book. (though not climbable now cause of rock fall??)



Ten Days/Years After, the amphitheatre one, I think is 10d, lots of finger locks???

Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Apr 10, 2009 - 02:50pm PT
The Warbler wrote:
"What about English Breakfast Crack and Leanie Meanie - aren't those 10d?"

It is interesting point because I always felt that English Breakfast Crack (10c) - is underrated and Leanie Meanie ( 11b) is overrated.
They can be both in 10d list with note "can't get any harder 10d" for Leanie Meanie
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 10, 2009 - 02:56pm PT
Leanie Meanie is over with pretty quick, just a few insecure lieback moves, and then some pumpy jamming, as I remember.

I also remember thinking that EBC must've been one of the hardest routes in the Valley, when it was first freed, early to mid sixties, I think.
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Apr 10, 2009 - 02:59pm PT
Kevin,

I've got a big grin going here. Just goes to show you how a climb can be so different for different guys on different days.
Too funny. EB was definitely hard for me, but I was climbing well and I thought it was 10c, so....it was!!
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 10, 2009 - 03:02pm PT
The Wafer.

Crux of the Nabisco Wall for me...

Hard to protect with nuts.
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Apr 10, 2009 - 03:03pm PT
ME TOO!
hoipolloi

climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
Apr 10, 2009 - 03:09pm PT
I have done a pretty good number of those 10d routes and thought English Breakfast Crack (which is only rated 10c), was harder than any of the 10d routes. Of the ones I have done, I did most of them onsight so far, not Finger Lickin' missed the big jug on the right at the beginning coming out of the steep start. This is my little climbing game, to try to onsight the 10d cracks in the valley. EBC completely stopped me the other weekend though, =( full stoppage. I was so sad. That fingers in the back of the horrid flare at the top totally shut me down. I was 2 moves from the end...damn...



Nice list though, I still have quite a few routes to do in order to do all the classic 10d's!


Edit:

I thought Little Wing was a lot harder than Finger Lickin'. In fact, I think Little Wing was the hardest (most awkward?) 10d I have done yet.
Nefarius

Big Wall climber
Fresno
Apr 10, 2009 - 03:16pm PT
"Ten Days/Years After, the amphitheatre one, I think is 10d, lots of finger locks???"

Yes, lots of finger locks. No thin hands. I'll go with you guys about the .10d here then. Like I said, I wasn't sure. Great climb tho.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Apr 10, 2009 - 03:18pm PT
Kris,

[5.10d on Central Pillar of Frenzy]
> As I recall it was making the transition and the following commitment which was cruxy. Not pure crack climbing in any case.
Cool - I changed it on the list on my PC.

> The thing I remember most about that ascent was looking down and watching some dirtball going through our packs at the base while we were up there...
Was it this guy: ?


(October 2005)
hoipolloi

climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
Apr 10, 2009 - 03:23pm PT
haha, oh man, that is a bummer.

He is a pretty bear though, nice and brown, not the golden/tan color you normally see them having. Big guy too!
mooser

Trad climber
seattle
Apr 10, 2009 - 03:27pm PT
Is it my imagination, or is 10d harder than 11b? Always seems that way to me, anyway. I think so many routes are called 10d because when they were first done, the first ascentionists said, "Nah...couldn't be 11." I wonder (this is about as scientific as I'll ever get) what the date clusters are for Valley 10d's relative to the breakthrough and regularity of 11s. If that scientific "wondering" doesn't make sense when you read it, it's probably because my mind is so advanced it can't articulate in simpler ways. Yeah, that's it.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Apr 10, 2009 - 03:27pm PT
> The Wafer.
> Crux of the Nabisco Wall for me...
> Hard to protect with nuts.

It's still hard, even with cams. Before cams, you had to be darn good to climb 5.10s at the Cookie.

Rated 5.11a in the supertopo guide!
5.10c in my list, as its "traditional" rating.
Definitely a classic; listed as a lieback, so I didn't include it in that other thread.
Pennsylenvy

Big Wall climber
Memomma, Isle
Apr 10, 2009 - 03:29pm PT
Is this why we like trundling soo much???
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Apr 10, 2009 - 03:36pm PT
> I think Little Wing was the hardest (most awkward?) 10d I have done yet.

Did you use a kneebar to get past that blank section in the upper flaring corner? I did this a couple of months ago; alternatives seemed much harder. Glad I was on toprope.
pip the dog

Mountain climber
planet dogboy
Apr 10, 2009 - 03:37pm PT
i agree with mooser.

many older .10d's are notably harder than many newer .11a/b's -- not only in the valley, but most everywhere with some real history. and i agree with his theory as to why.

^,,^
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Apr 10, 2009 - 03:42pm PT
Clint,
are you also think that Little Wing is harder than Finger Licking?
what is the essence of this climb?
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
Apr 10, 2009 - 03:49pm PT
Agreed that lots of 10ds are harder than some 11a/bs. Also, always give a "5.10+" your full attention!
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Apr 10, 2009 - 03:58pm PT
What "soft" 11a cracks in the Valley you have in mind which easier than standard 10d? I do not know any...
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
Apr 10, 2009 - 04:10pm PT
I thread drifted out of the valley with that comment. But...I'd say Moritorium feels easier to me than the Good Book. Subjective stuff!


Edit: I don't think Moritorium is soft, just that some hard 10s are burly for the grade.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Apr 10, 2009 - 04:15pm PT
Alexey,

> are you also think that Little Wing is harder than Finger Licking?

No, but if I hadn't finally decided to try the kneebar, I might have been totally stopped there. As it was, my long reach helped a lot, too.
I have not led either climb.
I do remember my partner floated Finger Lickin' very nicely, then struggled quite a bit on Little Wing, but I think she was in much better shape at the time we did Finger Lickin'.

> what is the essence of this climb?
Little Wing?
It is two left-facing corners, with a rest in between if you find it. The first corner is steep, with long reaches between good locks. The second corner is less steep on the left wall, but overhanging on the right wall, and the crack is mostly closed. There are a couple of places in the upper corner where you could get your fingers in, and/or put pro. I used a kneebar to get started on the upper corner.
don't have one

climber
Apr 10, 2009 - 06:51pm PT
Serenity seems kinda lite for 10d.
Waverly Wafer seems impossible for 10c.

Seems like this thread should be expanded to other trad areas where that "10d" grade holds true.
Eldo: How about Kings X and The Diving Board, or Le Toit?
South Platte: How about Drumstick Direct?
Indian Creek: Vision Quest
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 10, 2009 - 07:03pm PT
mooser wrote:

"I think so many routes are called 10d because when they were first done, the first ascentionists said, "Nah...couldn't be 11."

I was reluctant to rate the Bircheff Williams first pitch any harder than 10d, and in that era, the early seventies, it happened a lot.
martygarrison

Trad climber
The Great North these days......
Apr 10, 2009 - 07:24pm PT
hum, I have climbed almost all of the original list. I would agree with who ever said EBC is dang hard. It sure was for me when I led it in 76 sins cams. Lennie Meany is graded just right IMHO. Catchy is a one move wonder. How about some hardman 10d like steppin out. Now thats is hard.
climbingbuzz

Trad climber
SF, CA
Apr 10, 2009 - 07:26pm PT
Final exam...oooo...i bet that feels harder than 10d with one #3.
scooter

climber
fist clamp
Apr 10, 2009 - 07:39pm PT
I think 10.96 and Lord Caffiene are pretty stout .10d's.



martygarrison

Trad climber
The Great North these days......
Apr 10, 2009 - 07:43pm PT
my advice to folks who are aspiring to the 10d range in the valley, just go get on some 11a or b, you will be surprised at how many you pull off. Once you get to 11c or d the grade starts to have a noticeable difference between 10d....once again imho. Old timers please chimne in. Wabler, bf is solid 11b in my view btw.
Bill

climber
San Francisco
Apr 10, 2009 - 08:40pm PT
Interesting - I thought EBC was solid 10c, but no harder - certainly easier than Waverly. 5 and Dime, Book of Revelations, Hardly Pinnacle, Mark of Art, Yin Yang are all good...
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Apr 10, 2009 - 09:38pm PT
One thing about the crux of English Breakfast Crack (end of p2) is that it helps greatly if you have long arms and small fingers. I have those, so it did not feel hard to me, but if I could not have reached that stuff or gotten good locks, it would have been desperate.
JOEY.F

Social climber
sebastopol
Apr 10, 2009 - 09:44pm PT
I need a month in the valley.
Largo

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
Apr 10, 2009 - 09:56pm PT
Maybe it's my fat hands, but the Center on Independence seemed harder than all those other 10ds and I've done most of them. For me, putting the Good Book (simple if you're in shape) in the same league with Independence Center is just wrong.

JL
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Apr 10, 2009 - 11:06pm PT
great thread.

finger lickin' was a route i did almost monthly in the mid-80's,and the grade always seemed right on to me, but then i never gave it much thought.

i suppose it's worth mentioning that size matters?
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 10, 2009 - 11:10pm PT
I think it's the sausage digits, Johnny Man.

Center Route of Independence is steep and cranker, but it's over quick. And tight locks.
Rankin

climber
Bishop, CA
Apr 11, 2009 - 12:41am PT
Somebody mentioned Waverly Wafer, I actually could agree to that, compared to some of the other routes on the list. I first heard of it as 10c, then I've seen it as 11a. 10d seems about right. What a great grade in the Valley. Not the hardest pitch on the route by grade, but the 10d pitch on the Rostrum is sneaky. The first time I did the route, my partner did every other pitch clean, but fell at the crux on that one.
alpinerockfiend

Trad climber
The American West
Apr 11, 2009 - 09:23am PT
Yes!! Lord Caffeine is should definitely be on the list in my opinion. A seriously burly crack.
And I thought Butterfingers was maybe the easiest 11a I've done in the valley, quite a bit easier for me than LC.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Apr 12, 2009 - 10:36am PT
It goes to show it all varies. I thought 10c for Waverly about right. I get a stem coming over the roof and the jam/lieback section is short (I jam more than lb). On the other hand, I find Mark of Art harder just because the jams/lb go on longer.

Manana is a fun climb (minus the first 30 feet), but it is really only two moves. The butterfly jam above the roof and then the fingertip move at the exit. Has anybody mentioned Ying Yang? Clean and nicely sustained. This would seem a much better candidate to add to the 10d Hardman list.

As to the question of what 11a is easier, I don't find Hardd (11b) really any harder than, say, finger lickin (which isn't to say that I find either easy).
alpinerockfiend

Trad climber
The American West
Apr 12, 2009 - 02:26pm PT
Yo Rankin, good call on the Rostrum 10d pitch. You're talking about the one down there right? Or is that 11a in the book? Either way, sneaky for sure.
James

climber
My twin brother's laundry room
Apr 12, 2009 - 02:51pm PT
How about Mark of Art. That's one long great pitch.
nutjob

Stoked OW climber
San Jose, CA
Apr 13, 2009 - 01:49pm PT
Nice thread... bump.

I followed Serenity crux cleanly at a time when I thought most 5.10 climbing was out of reach... so it must be light! No 10d on my resume yet but I'm getting closer. I got a few 10b/c on-sites last season.

This list will fuel my aspirations if I string together enough time on the rock this season... more craggin', less cheatin' the reaper!
Gilwad

climber
Frozen In Somewhere
Apr 13, 2009 - 02:59pm PT
I've climbed some hard 5.10 in the valley, but the hardest 5.10 crack I've ever climbed was a thing called "Recluse" in New Hampshire. I think that's what it's called, don't have the guidebook handy but from a 25-years past memory that's it. On the right side of Cathedral Ledge on the "practice slabs." Some of those New England grades are vicious; I've never climbed trad anywhere since my time there without thinking, "Hey, it's not as bad as (insert some New England desperate name here)."

Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Redlands
Apr 13, 2009 - 03:06pm PT
Not really something to seek out (unless you're already at Generator since it's right across the road), and it's basically a 10' boulder problem with some 5-easy stacked on top, but Conductor Crack has got a pretty stout crux at 10d, IMO.
Nefarius

Big Wall climber
Fresno
Apr 13, 2009 - 03:06pm PT
"i suppose it's worth mentioning that size matters?"

"I think it's the sausage digits, Johnny Man. "

I think BVB and Warbler are right on. I remember talking about Dog's Roof and Russ saying he thought it was easy, but that he had sausages for fingers. I think Fish Crack is nowhere near it's grade (I think .11c is appropriate), but maybe it's cause I don't have fat, stubby digits?
Largo

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
Apr 13, 2009 - 03:51pm PT
Size does matter. For instance, the hardest part of Butterballs (for me) is the first ten feet - my fingers are bomber at the top. Haard is harder for me than Butterballs. On the other hand, the Pirate, at Suicide, is totally impossible for me - I can't pull a single jam. And Insomnia is a hard size as well.

But back to 5.10d. Cramming is a hard size for fat hands, but Five and Dime is locker. That's the case with all of those routes that go from 1 to 1 1/2 inches.

JL
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 13, 2009 - 03:55pm PT
Did ya ever do The Cringe, John?
TomT

Trad climber
Aptos.
Apr 13, 2009 - 04:14pm PT
John, I have wanted to try do Five and Dime- now it has moved up my list. I want to hear more beta on which hard 10s are good and bad for sausage fingers- I only get a few days per year to climb in the valley -got to pick things that will work to my advantage.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Apr 13, 2009 - 04:18pm PT
anybody ever take a good look at watusi's digits? they start out, like, ham-hock thick at the palm then they taper down to quills at the tips.

genetically predisposed to finger crack mastery, as it were.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 13, 2009 - 04:37pm PT
I never noticed that, bvb. So that's why the guy's so badass on the thin cracks.

And he's got that music thing goin' on.

Like Dale, his knees are the same size as his fists - major advantage on the wide stuff.
Nefarius

Big Wall climber
Fresno
Apr 13, 2009 - 04:41pm PT
Now that you mention it, I just looked and my knees are pretty close to the same size as my fist (same size in front, tapers to slightly larger in the back - called chicken legs) ... Doesn't seem to help much! Still have to work my ass off on real OW. lol

The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Apr 13, 2009 - 04:52pm PT
If you bend your knee to 90 degrees, and your fist is as wide as the widest part of your knee in that position, you're like Dale, and you're stoked on offsize.

Or should I say you have an advantage on offsize.

Maybe with Leavittation it doesn't help that much.

I don't know - I just lieback the damn things.

Nefarius

Big Wall climber
Fresno
Apr 13, 2009 - 04:56pm PT
Hmmm... I'd say my knee, is at best, a 1/4" wider. If that. Regardless, I'm psyched, period once I can get my knee in!
Largo

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
Apr 13, 2009 - 04:58pm PT
Warbler wrote: "Did ya ever do The Cringe, John?"

Yeah but that crack changes sizes so everyone has a weird section. The thin hands before it arches left is tricky for me but you can power through if you don't hang about placing gear.

JL
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 13, 2009 - 06:05pm PT
"Yin Yang"

oh sh#t, I think that was in the grouping I'm talking about as well. Totally fergot.

Looks like we have reached full 10d spread Cap'n. All posts welcome (cept political).





But does anyone else recall this grouping of 10d climbs? A sort of mythical small collection of 10d's that were part of a circuit that meant something significant when taken together?



Was it just me and too much budweiser juice?




Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Apr 13, 2009 - 07:15pm PT
first two pitches of Moratorium both 10d.
TMJesse

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Apr 13, 2009 - 08:54pm PT
My sole claim at a 5.10d resides on the list: "Lazy Bum." It can't be that big of a deal if even I made it. . . . Corbett used to drag me around for short climbs and a six pack after work, and this was one of them. Others rated lower were harder than this one, I thought.
mazamarick

Trad climber
WA
Apr 13, 2009 - 09:24pm PT
The Tube was one of those 10d's that seemed harder than the grade, it either worked or not, no in between. Anyone else have this experience?

The Wafer was gripping enough to make Bev's the approach of choice after a late afternoon sweat-fest, eh Mighty Hiker?
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Apr 13, 2009 - 09:57pm PT
Munge said:

"But does anyone else recall this grouping of 10d climbs? A sort of mythical small collection of 10d's that were part of a circuit that meant something significant when taken together? "

I remember. When you and I started climbing together in 1992 I talked to you on a few occasions about "the six" Valley 5.10d inch and a quarter cracks. It was a list of routes I'd been working on redpointing. I felt like these were the ultimate "rattley fingers" climbs in the Valley. It was just my own grouping of climbs. I think I said something to you like "if you can lead all of these you can lead any 5.10 crack, anywhere." Sound familiar, or is my memory way too old?

My list of six was:
1. Cramming,
2. Manana,
3. The Thief,
4. Finger Lickin',
5. Vanishing Point,
6. Five and Dime.

EDIT: The key to these six was that each had an inch and a quarter section that you had to do to do the climb. There are lots of 5.10d cracks in the Valley, but these six stood out for that reason. I've always wondered whether Final Exam should be on the list, but I've never gotten up to do it.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 14, 2009 - 09:50am PT
thx Brad. that may just explain it.

I don't remember the crack size discussion, but the climb sizes and names seem to match that well.

KP Ariza

climber
SCC
Apr 14, 2009 - 10:22am PT
10.d burl factor=Childhoods End (in 1 long pitch)
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Redlands
Apr 15, 2009 - 07:56am PT
This one is superb (best done when it's NOT 108 degreesF):

Nefarius

Big Wall climber
Fresno
Apr 15, 2009 - 09:05am PT
"The Tube was one of those 10d's that seemed harder than the grade"

Maybe cause it is? My Reid/Meyers guide shows .11a, which I believe is the consensus.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 27, 2011 - 04:18pm PT
bump because I need to get back into crack and long free lines to improve the aerobic.

off to the gym in 20 min...


any good stories of pushing 5.10 routes that were hard for you?
Hankster

Social climber
Texas/Boulder
Feb 27, 2011 - 05:50pm PT
It says 10C but that is total BS. It's 10D for sure. And I agree with whatever Largo says. http://www.mountainproject.com/v/colorado/boulder/eldorado_canyon_sp/105748813

caylor
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 27, 2011 - 08:56pm PT
Largo sez that Edge of Night is rated 5.10c but is almost certainly 10d. Bat Crack at Tahquitz is another great 10d. The list goes on . . .

JL
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Feb 27, 2011 - 09:03pm PT
Last pitch of Windfall, 10d straight in thin hands and fingers with a view to the Crest.

Oh my that's a good route!

That never gets done.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 27, 2011 - 09:26pm PT
Warbler,

Reid guide calls it 11a (1994 and 1987).

Is that one of your routes?



The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Feb 27, 2011 - 09:39pm PT
Yes, Munge, one of the very best I had the fortune to climb first.

There are four pitches, 10b liebacking and stemming, 11a six foot horizontal roof with thin crack, 11a+ double overhanging corner with wide to thin splitter crack (one of the steepest pitches in the Valley!), and the final 10d splitter straight in finger/hand crack pitch.

A spacious, flat summit ledge awaits the adventurous climber.

The climb is positioned on the very outside of the west buttress of Stanford Point Gully, AKA The widow's Tears Amphitheater, with a spectacular view of The Valley, the high country, and on a clear day, The Central Valley and Coast Range.

It is possible to avoid the first three pitches by climbing an easier route, Breezin', but why bother?
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Feb 27, 2011 - 09:59pm PT
Damn dude, that Windfall sounds like the plum pickins right there. I actually got up, found a pen, and put it on the list.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Feb 27, 2011 - 10:08pm PT
It's a bit of a hike, but worth every minute of it!

Some approach beta - walk to the base of the broken buttress below the route, and then up and west along the base of the wall until you can traverse back east along the base of the steep wall to the start of the route.

While you're up there be sure to crawl thru the exposed slot into The Widow's Tears Amphitheater - particularly amazing in the spring wildflower bloom.
klk

Trad climber
cali
Feb 27, 2011 - 10:10pm PT
11a+?



Heh
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Feb 27, 2011 - 10:12pm PT

With hexes.

Probably 10d with those little cammy gadgets y'all use these days.

That crack is so parallel sided and straight, I could see Chappy's hands jamming twenty feet below me looking down thru the bulge. The left wall is perfectly flat and overhangs about three degrees, the right is much steeper...
lucho

Trad climber
California
Feb 27, 2011 - 10:33pm PT
Windfall is the hardest 11a I've ever done. The roof is so hard and the splitter overhanging handcrack is sick but also hard for 11a. True one of the hidden gems in the Valley that hardly gets done.
gonzo chemist

climber
Crane Jackson's Fountain St. Theater
Feb 28, 2011 - 11:47pm PT
I was super psyched to climb English Breakfast Crack on sight. The whole time through the crux at the end I was thinking, "f*#king hell this is hard for 5.10c." And I felt like I didn't bring nearly enough gear, what with having spent the previous 6 months climbing exclusively in Joshua Tree on an anemic rack. Even now, thinking back, it felt harder than P1 of The Vampire on Tahquitz I think.

Most of the rest of the stuff in Yos valley I can't comment on, as I haven't been on it. Although, I'd maybe add Mark of Art to the list for .10d hardmen. That thing felt ungodly pumpy.




Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Mar 1, 2011 - 07:20am PT
all 10d's should either be upgraded or downgraded. if downgraded, they should be downgraded to 10b's. 10b's can be impossible (in the way certain children can be impossible), and are generally not worth the effort, for the faint glory involved. 10c's are much easier to climb than 10b's.
Impaler

Gym climber
Vancouver
May 9, 2011 - 12:19pm PT
I'm surprised that Lord Caffeine isn't considered "the hardest 10d". Or is it just SO sandbagged that it just can't possibly be a 10d? Felt more like 11d to me.
mctwisted

Social climber
superslacker city
May 9, 2011 - 12:36pm PT
lucho, i remember that windfall being superproud, and a great workout hike to get there. excellant location,and never a line at the base! thanks werner for bringing me up there.
chill

climber
between the flat part and the blue wobbly thing
May 9, 2011 - 01:23pm PT
I like this thread. In the mid 80's my wife and I were doing the Valley hang and I saw that Waverley was 10.c in the Reid guide. "Hell, I can do that". I got out of the pod and thought the fun was over, then got spanked in the off-fingers. Made it to the top but it was a battle. I have more cams now, may have to go back.
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
May 9, 2011 - 01:51pm PT
glad to hear that Windfall roof is hard for the grade. I added this one move- having no ideas how to do it free. Overhanging hands in the corner is one of the best pitches I climbed in the Valley, but probably fare rated as 11a?
David Wilson

climber
CA
Sep 10, 2011 - 09:37am PT
i got psyched on doing the 10d cracks this spring and plan to do some others in a few weeks. so far these are my difficulty ratings out of 10 points max ( that goes to cramming - got totally schooled on that one ). threw waverly in as a bench mark

Cramming 10
Waverly 8
Five and Dime 7
Moratorium first 2 pitches- 4
Little Wing 4
Catchy 3
Vanishing Point 1
Lazy bum 1
Serenity 1
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Sep 10, 2011 - 11:08am PT
Not to be forgotten:

The Good Book
David Wilson

climber
CA
Sep 24, 2011 - 12:24pm PT
Climbed a few more from the 10d list this week. For me, cramming is still in the lead as the hardest ( unless you put 10.96 on the list ). Did The Thief yesterday and that was amazing - well worth the hike.

Manana 3
The Thief 6
Cramming 10
Five and Dime 7
Finger Lickin' 7
Moratorium first two 4
Little wing 5
Catchy 2
Waverly 8
Yin-Yang 7
Lazy Bum 2
Serenity Crack 2
Vanishing Point 1
le_bruce

climber
Oakland, CA
Nov 3, 2011 - 11:29am PT
Great thread. Wind Jammin' sounds incredible, but just out of reach. Anyone done Breezin' that can comment on it?

In the vein of D. Wilson's 1-10, these are the .10d's I've been on that come to mind, and my ratings of them (Hard, Medium, Soft):


Fell/hung, so can't rightly say:

Five and Dime (0 for 3!)
Little wing
Vanishing Point
South by Southwest p4

Led clean:

Catchy (Soft)
Yin-Yang p1 (Medium/Hard)
Lazy Bum (Medium)
Serenity Crack (Soft)
Slack Center (Soft)

I can think of a few 10's or 10-'s that felt harder to me than the soft .10d's above:

Henley Quits .10b
Midterm .10b
Two money pitches on Hawkman's .9

Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Nov 3, 2011 - 02:47pm PT
under the big top is pretty stiff tindee.
what we can expect of jay smith and friends.
cultureshock

Trad climber
Mountain View
Nov 3, 2011 - 03:22pm PT
For 10d Laybacks make sure to consider Mark of Art which is slick but fun.

+1 for the The Good Book (aka right side of the folly) A really great route with a stunning crux pitch (10d).

+1 for Cramming kicking my arse. Harder than the Enduro corner!

 Luke
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 3, 2011 - 03:37pm PT
Vaguely remember doing the first ascent of Cramming with, Wunsch, Bev and others- don't remember it being a sandbag. I'll have to go back and check it out- I'll probably get my ass kicked.

edit- Henry Barber once told me he thought that Vanishing Point was harder than Fish Crack.
Walleye

climber
The Hot Kiss on the end of a Wet Fist
Nov 3, 2011 - 03:45pm PT
Mr natural can't be 10d, can it?? I have had this discussion with Fosburg a few times and I can't believe it's 10d. I onsight floated that thing on a cold windy day with Karine Croft. I thought it was 5.9 (really) and I was at best a 10b/c onsight climber in my prime.
scuffy b

climber
dissected alluvial deposits, late Pleistocene
Nov 3, 2011 - 04:18pm PT
What a relief about Fish Crack, Jim.
I've always thought it was too hard to even try, but since I've done Vanishing Point with no problem,
I'll just check off Fish Crack and forget
about trying to climb it.

Hey--authorized by Hot Henry--no quibbling, now!!
Rhodo-Router

Gym climber
the secret topout on the Chockstone Chimney
Nov 3, 2011 - 04:28pm PT
Wind Jammin' is pretty dang stout. It felt like solid .11 to me, at least getting over that roof. The rest is about right.
David Wilson

climber
CA
Feb 26, 2012 - 12:01pm PT
well, here's a pic of the good book.

the good book P2
the good book P2
Credit: David Wilson

and not to beat a dead horse, but i added a few more entries to my iphone 1-10 10d rating list:

Yin-Yang 5.10d **. 7
Lazy Bum 5.10d ** 2
Serenity Crack 5.10d *** 5 fingers don't fit ( my dad's FA )
Vanishing Point 5.10d ** 1
Manana 5.10d ** 3
The Thief 5.10d **. 6
Cramming 5.10d *** 10
Five and Dime 5.10d *** 7
Finger Lickin' 5.10d *** 7
Moratorium P1,2 4
Little wing 5
Catchy 2
Waverly ( as reference only ) 8
Good book P2 7 pumpy lieback
Independence Pinnacle - Center 3 thin hands / short crux
First pitch of the nose 7 slippery unpleasant
Rostrum P6. 6

still need to do:
Mark of art
Ten Years After 5.10d
south by southwest p4
windjammer
others?

Jim, very odd that Henry Barber thought vanishing point was so hard....you sure it was that route?
Jorroh

climber
Feb 26, 2012 - 12:23pm PT
Awsome thread....what could be more fun than watching the Yosemite crusties trying to out-testorerone each other on a 10d grade discussion.


Josh Higgins

Trad climber
San Diego
Feb 26, 2012 - 12:28pm PT
That picture of Good Book brings back memories. I almost puked on that pitch. We did it as a nice easy route 2 days after NIAD. My body still wasn't ready. I dry heaved following that thin hands corner, roughly where the climber above is pictured. Luckily, I was feeling better up higher since I got the offwidth and didn't have big enough cams to protect it! Yikes! Bring a #5!

Josh
gf

climber
Feb 26, 2012 - 12:59pm PT
I think the classic line came from bmac on the 10d good book pitch when he channelled mick jagger and announced "i just don't have that much jam"
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Feb 26, 2012 - 03:49pm PT
what could be more fun than watching the Yosemite crusties trying to out-testorerone each other on a 10d grade discussion?

rackin' up and sendin' 'em, junior!
dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Feb 26, 2012 - 05:51pm PT
I didn't read the whole thread.

What about the V-8 Crack, across from Cardinal Lodge Pinnacle?
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Feb 26, 2012 - 05:53pm PT
rackin' up and sendin' 'em, junior!

With hexes and EBs
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jul 10, 2013 - 12:01am PT
ok, how's the list-ticking going - bump
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jul 10, 2013 - 12:58am PT
How many of those were put up pre-cams?
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jul 10, 2013 - 04:35am PT
Man, P2 of the good book looked MF hard.... real hard....

I did Lazy Bum so many times I was close to free-soloing it.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Jul 10, 2013 - 05:36am PT
How many of those were put up pre-cams?

All of David Wilson's listed routes were done pre cams, with the possible exception of south by southwest.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jul 10, 2013 - 07:36am PT
David.....yep, Henry said Vanishing Point was hard, maybe a high gravity day. Did the second pitch of the Good Book this Spring and thought it was haarrd.....kind of wet at the crux and pumpy.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 10, 2013 - 08:25am PT
I've had the pleasure of visiting most on the list here. Independence Center isn't 5.10, as I see it.

Cramming I thought was f'in hard! "Good for laps..." Ha!

I lowered off and cleaned the thing for my buddy, Barefoot Bruce.

It's a small ledge you belay from there. Bruce made a move or two up and I cringed as I watched his toes, at eye level, cramming into that crack. Ho man, it still makes me shudder to remember that scene.


Check out Scram next door, way fun!
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 10, 2013 - 09:07am PT
You climb forever, a bunch of 5.11, some easy-for-the-grade 5.10s, a most excellent .10b traversing pitch way up high--you get to peer through your legs at the pedestal you started on hours earlier.

My buddy lead a give-away pitch up to a ledge in the sky, we were getting close to the top. I followed, starting to feel the mile of rock we'd crossed. I popped up to the ledge and looked up at the next pitch, my lead.

The topo says 5.10d, and man, that thing looked every inch of the grade. Climbing the thing confirmed the grade--my favorite one in the Valley. While it's not super easy to access, that .10d is memorable in every sense. Go do the West Face and you'll see what I'm talkin' about.

Add it to the list!!
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jul 10, 2013 - 09:12am PT
Vanishing Point - I did an early ascent of that with Jay Smith and never went back to it owing to the long hike for such a shorty. But that one seemed stuff for 5.10 but that's a tough size for fat hands. Cramming I did several times and it felt like 5.12 and was basically unprotected with the old hexes. I still say Edge of Night is 5.11. I did that one with Kevin W. the first time and we were slotting 4 inch bongs in like nuts. I personally feel that Twilight Zone (10d) is harder than Cream (11a) but I could always crush straight-in off size. And for my fingers, Finger Lickin' is 11+.

God, those are really some great routes. So many classics. Wasn't Hum Dinger 10d as well. Can't remember....

JL
le_bruce

climber
Oakland, CA
Nov 12, 2013 - 01:32pm PT
Tried Waverly Wafer recently, felt bleak - exiting that pod to get established in the lieback, man, just couldn't figure that out.

Waverly, Five & Dime, and Little Wing all shut me down. Of the three I think Five & Dime feels the hardest to me, having flamed out on it four times now... Such pure jamming and footwork req'd there.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Nov 12, 2013 - 01:38pm PT
Crammin' is burly for the rating. Let's put it this way: the crux on New D felt easy after a lap on Crammin'.
KP Ariza

climber
SCC
Nov 12, 2013 - 02:15pm PT
Independence Pinnacle is good but short. Not exceptionally stout for the grade.

These felt a bit harder than the rest to me:
Childhoods End done in one long pitch (originally rated 5.10d)
Fingerlickin
Cramming
Mark of Art
Little Wing
The Thief

Never did Twilight Zone but I'd bet it delivers more than full value for the grade.

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Nov 12, 2013 - 06:37pm PT
Childhood's End, what a great book. Personally, I think the pitch off the ground is extra stout. Whoa Nelly!
Mark Force

Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
Nov 12, 2013 - 07:11pm PT
I'm with Warbler. Doing 5.10D in the style they were originally done - often onsight, with hexes, EBs, swami belt, and, in some cases, no chalk, is commendable climbing. Doing every kind of 5.10D, including the flares, the wide, and the laybacks solidly is uncommon, especially if you can do them in the FFA style.

For instance, has Chuck Pratt's Twilight Zone ever been repeated? To do it in the style of the first ascent you would either have to lead it with only a 1" swami, rope, hammer, and a couple of bongs or onsight solo it!

Cool thread. Just for fun check out this video of Henry Barber stylin' up Waverly Wafer barefoot!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YPATnqHMiaE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DYPATnqHMiaE

PS Gotta go with the crux of English Breakfast Crack is silly hard for the grade.
Spike Flavis

Trad climber
Truckee California
Nov 12, 2013 - 08:15pm PT
Hey Kenny, That looks like a hit list we might have worked up out of the old yellow meyer's guide at Maas's apartment drinking Lucky Lager and smokin' mexi-bud from the proto pipe back in '85!
Rollover

climber
Gross Vegas
Dec 25, 2013 - 08:09am PT
Bump
Messages 1 - 130 of total 130 in this topic
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews