Moses Cam Hooks - anyone try them out?

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Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 9, 2009 - 09:31pm PT


I notice you can now get Moses Cam Hooks from Mountain Tools

Has anyone tried them? They look identical to the discontinued Leeper Cam Hook... which means they look awesome! But before I tell my friends to buy them, i was wondering if someone has tested them out?
hoipolloi

climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
Apr 9, 2009 - 09:39pm PT
I am pretty sure, from reading some other forums, they are identical to the Leeper cam hooks. I believe TMoses got the plans and go ahead from the man himself. Im going to get myself a set o' wides to play with.
T Moses

Trad climber
Paso Robles
Apr 9, 2009 - 09:50pm PT
Funny you should ask.

I made them as identical to Leepers as I possibly could. Right down to the "pinched" tip and hard heat treatment. Why mess with perfection. The man knew his stuff when he designed them. I like to think it is a tribute to his genius that no one (including myself) could find no real way to improve it.

I have talked to Ed numerous times. He is a trip to talk to. His approach was highly scientific. We get to talking about metal and an hour goes by.

Mountain Tools has them in stock. I handed them to Larry at the Rockpile Rendezvous.

Mountain Gear should have gotten theirs today.

Mountain Shop in Yosemite might get theirs next week some time.
T Moses

Trad climber
Paso Robles
Apr 9, 2009 - 09:53pm PT
You'll be hard pressed to find someone who has given them a real working over. I got them back from heat treat on Friday.

WBraun

climber
Apr 9, 2009 - 09:57pm PT
Make sure you load test them with two guys jumping on them.

We did this when Russ (Fish) first batch of big hooks came back from the heat treating. Me and Middendorf both together loaded the hook and it broke in half.

The whole batch did that to Russ's jaw dropping shock.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Apr 9, 2009 - 09:59pm PT
scary!





side note...

the mgear site is using 'leeper' branded hooks for the image...

someone needs to shoot some pics for T

T Moses

Trad climber
Paso Robles
Apr 9, 2009 - 10:03pm PT
Werner,

Me thinks that stuff was REALLY HARD! You cross a threshold when hard stops being "strong" and starts being brittle. The Cam Hooks are still on the "strong" side.

Betcha Russ was knott happy!

Russ could have sent them back and had them re-temper them.

Mgear should shoot their photos soon. Now that they have something to shoot.
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Apr 9, 2009 - 10:29pm PT
Nice looking Beak--how much?
Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2009 - 10:47pm PT
Thanks for bring them back T Moses! They are absolutely essential Yosemite big wall gear. I got a little flutter in my stomach when i heard leeper was no longer making them. All is right in the (aid climbing) world again.
WBraun

climber
Apr 9, 2009 - 10:52pm PT
"Russ could have sent them back and had them re-temper them."

I don't think there was anything to retemper. The entire batch failed and were all broken.

Right Deuce4 ?

Anyways I agree with Chris Mc that they are lifesavers and essential modern aid tools.

Thanks, T Moses
mark miller

Social climber
Reno
Apr 9, 2009 - 10:54pm PT
They look great but I still have my original one's from Leeper that are 30 years old.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Apr 9, 2009 - 10:57pm PT
Tell us a story uncle Tmoses. Tell me about the beaks, huh huh!
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Apr 9, 2009 - 11:14pm PT
Hi Werner-

I can't quite recall the specifics. I think Russ's original design--the ones we broke-- were made out of angle iron, in replication of the old Ring Angle pitons, which were, of course, the finest big hooks ever!

That's when Walt and I suggested just to make big hooks like a large version of the Chouinard hook, only thicker, which is what Russ did next.

Russ's original V-angle hooks were too brittle. I reckon they might have been able to be retempered, but the problem might have been then they would have been less strong, and would probably have bent under load. They weren't thick enough.

Rule of thumb with steel: hard=strong in tensile but possible very brittle, and less strong in bending. Tempering actually weakens the material, but makes it much more tough and able to withstand impact without snapping.
WBraun

climber
Apr 9, 2009 - 11:20pm PT
Thanks John

All I remember is me testing that first hook and then you jumping on it too.

Snap! Russ blowing his mind, and then going back to LA the next day or so to start over again.

Remember? when he first wanted to make the hook from my bike frame?

He saws my bike frame in half and bends it into the hook form. We go over to the boulder and the stupid thing just bends back instantly useless.

Hahahaha

Sorry for hijacking your thread T Moses.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 10, 2009 - 01:41am PT
Theron is all about this gear issue. He's like a New Chouinard - a latter-generation inventive climber guy who is making the rare gear that people want and need.

deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Apr 10, 2009 - 02:38am PT
Theron=Moses?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 10, 2009 - 02:40am PT
Theron, didn't you say Ed was doing everything on manual rigs - maybe worth describing that aspect of Ed's approach and thinking...
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Apr 10, 2009 - 03:24am PT
What are you state-siders doing up so late?
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Apr 10, 2009 - 03:54am PT
John, right now, the full moon just came out, after a storm system moved East, and the sky cleared.

And we like it.


Sometimes, you have to stay up late . . .
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Apr 10, 2009 - 04:05am PT
yep, same moon over here, too. It's upside down, though.
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