What's a good Yosemite 5.12

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Super_Star

Advanced climber
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 1, 2002 - 10:28am PT
I'm coming to the valley in a few weeks and I want to try to red point a trad 5.12 while I'm there...any suggestions? I'm looking for a "classic" trad pitch. I already know about Crimson Cringe and Separate Reality. Crimson Cringe looks awesome, I might try that, but I kind of think Separate Reality is more of a party trick than a "classic" trad pitch. Thanks!
Old and slow

Novice climber
Sous le toit
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2002 - 10:40am PT
Check out some of the pitches on the Salathe headwall. Worth the hike.
spot

Novice climber
newark, NJ
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2002 - 12:09pm PT
you could lead bachar-cracker.
Peter Puget

Novice climber
Washington
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2002 - 12:18pm PT
One of my fav's is Pinky Paralysis! It is only a one pitch job but really fun.
joe climber

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2002 - 01:00pm PT
People have led Cookie Monster on trad gear.


Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2002 - 01:52pm PT
Yah... Cookie Monster is a great trad if you ignore the bolts.
super_star

Advanced climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2002 - 03:45pm PT
Yeah, but then it's like 12c r/x...I'm not that much of a super-star. Besides, I want a crack climb, not a lieback. Has anyone done Fish Crack? Is it good? mostly fingers eh?

I won't have a really good partner with me, so I need something I can just crag that's nice and convenient. Thanks
Brutus

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2002 - 04:14pm PT
Owl Roof.
I'd recommend Bad Ass Momma but it's only like 11d.
KidRock

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2002 - 04:21pm PT
A good warm-up for your 5.12 would be "Ahab". It a short walk from the car to ElCap base and it's only 5.10b.
fs

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2002 - 04:26pm PT
or, since you'll be at the cookie, just jump on the Twilight Zone. You'll cruise this one as it's only 10d.
poseur

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2002 - 04:44pm PT
Energy Crisis, although a lowly 11d, if you have enough cams it is an easy pinkpoint.
radical

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2002 - 06:07pm PT
CAn't speak much for the 5.12's. But the North FAce of the Rostrum is the best thing I have ever climbed. The 11c was very hard for me, but if you onsight 5.12 you should be able to cruise it, and as 5.11c goes it is not that bad. The 5.11b hand pitch has bomber hands the whole way, and is just endurance. Wish that pitch was on the ground.
There are also some 5.11 b bolted routes at church bowel that are nice for there grade, and a great onsight possibility.
Mo Fo

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2002 - 06:37pm PT
Yo Super, get a guidebook. You know, the one that says YOSEMITE on it. What kind of a super_star are you asking us to do your research for you.
SkeptiK

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2002 - 06:58pm PT
Yeah, like someone who climbs 5.12 trad would actually ask what route to do on this website. And the name Super_Star?? I'm calling bumbling gumby out for a little trolling on this one...

And no you don't get the "5.12c" grade if you lead Cookie Monster on gear.
desk jockey

Intermediate climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2002 - 07:24pm PT
Well...Cookie Monster isn't 5.12, try 11+, and as far as leading it on gear, there is no way in heck that it would be r/x. Have any of you knuckle heads even done that route? There is a perfect crack there, those bolts don't need to be there. Most people would agree that Fish Crack isn't 5.12, neither is Seperate Reality. Why don't you do Chingando, that thing is spectacular. I think it's 5.9. Probably one of the best pitches in the Valley.
5.13 leader

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2002 - 08:09pm PT
Cookie monster had a bunch of pitons in it when Kurt Smith first lead it. So if you really want to do it trad bring a rack of pins and skip the bolts.
mike

Novice climber
ca
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2002 - 08:15pm PT
Tales of Power!!!!!!!!!!!
Karl Baba

Novice climber
Yosemite
Oct 1, 2002 - 08:43pm PT
Just do the cring, it's everything you're looking for. You can fool around on fish crack while you're there. It's getting a bit cooler these days, otherwise I'd suggest, if you dont want to do the whole Rostrum, hike down to the ledge in the middle and do the 11c on the regular, the 11d of Blind Faith, and the 11c of Kaukulater. Major classics but no 5.12 glory. Red Zinger is light for the grade but is a major classic as well 11d.

We're all light anyway, forget 5.12 and climb something awesome.

Peace

Karl
Super_Star

Advanced climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 2, 2002 - 10:57am PT
Yeah, I have the guidebook, but Don Reid ain't very specific when it comes to route descriptions.
Case in point, page 78:

"RIDE THE LIGHTNING 5.12A**"

What the hell am I supposed to get from that? Is it jamming? is it fingers/hand? mostly face climbing? is it any good? So I was thinking, maybe there's someone out there who has done some of these things and would recommend one.

The times I've been to the valley I've been doing long routes, so I haven't had a lot of time to check out all the crag areas. If someone wanted me to recommend a 5.12 in Little Cottonwood, near my home, I would have a bunch of suggestions. Right Trinity is a good endurance pitch, but not too much jamming, The Coffin Roof is good jamming, but painful and sandbagged, etc. etc..

You know, you don't even have to have climbed them to know how they go. I've seen pictures of the Cringe and Fish crack, and I can see that they're splitter cracks...whereas cookie monster is obviously a lie back.

Finally, I would never post this topic under my real name, for fear of being called out for arrogance by the super-topo-web-nazis. Just imagine that I'm some guy sitting in a cubicle who honestly wants beta, but knows better than to post a "serious" question like this with my real name. If you can help, thanks, if you can't, write some silly comeback and we'll all have fun laughing at it.

Thanks -SS
Brutus

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 2, 2002 - 01:08pm PT
> If someone wanted me to recommend a 5.12 in Little
> Cottonwood, near my home, I would have a bunch of
> suggestions. Right Trinity is a good endurance pitch,
> but not too much jamming, The Coffin Roof is good
> jamming, but painful and sandbagged, etc. etc..

Hmmm. My first recommendation for LC would have been Trench Warfare. With that, I'll stand by my original suggestion. Warm up on Bad Ass Momma, then do Owl Roof. Both somewhat steep, fantastic jamming, relatively splitter, 1-2 pitches, mellow approaches.

Brutus
Peter Puget

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 2, 2002 - 01:25pm PT
AH sorry I spaced out the 5.12 part, Pinky is .11 Pretty close to 5.12 and I think harder than some "12s" is Torque Converter. I'd agree with the Karl's recomends too. Fish crack aint too grand but Cringe rocks. Honestly the .11s mentioned are so darn cool that trying to hit a bunch of 12s for the sake of the rating doesn't seem worth it.
Super_Star

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 2, 2002 - 01:45pm PT
Thanks Peter, that's good advice. I would tend to agree that there seems to be more good 11's than 12's, however, I consider the valley to be the ultimate crucible for testing one's abilities. I can't consider myself a 5.12 climber untill I've done one in Yosemite....just a complex I have.

Brutus, thanks for the suggestion, perhaps I'll give it a try. Has anyone tried the Alien finish on the rostrum? Is that thing brutal on the fingers or is it NTB?
desk jockey

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 2, 2002 - 06:04pm PT
Crimson Cringe is good, however it is also one of those 5.11's that gets a 5.12 rating.
Tales of Power, I guess is a 5.12-, so it does qualify as a 5.12, and it's so goo.

Duh Judge

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 3, 2002 - 01:03pm PT
nothing personal Super star, but redpointing doesn't count. You can't consider yourself a Valley 5.12 climber until you have onsighted 5.12.
Judge #2

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 3, 2002 - 01:11pm PT
...and none of that pre-placed gear crap either!!!! That's sport climbing.
old guy

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 3, 2002 - 09:52pm PT
brutus.. you get troll points..

yea. bad ass mama. that's on everybody's tick list.
ditto owl roof. what'd you say? not toooo steep?

ya shoulda added, er.. not too WIDE?
snicker.
Super_Star

Advanced climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 4, 2002 - 10:34am PT
Pre-placed gear!?!?! What, do you think I'm from Boulder or something?!?! I'd vote Republican before I preplaced gear on a trad route, that's heresy!

Yeah, I wouldn't call myself a "Valley 5.12 climber" unless I could on-sight at that grade, but at least if I redpoint something I can say I climbed a Valley 5.12...see the difference?

Is Crimson Cringe really 165' long? So I would need two ropes if my partner can't follow? Do you think anyone would mind if I added a convenient three-bolt lowering anchor at 100'?
Dan

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 4, 2002 - 01:42pm PT
why don't you bolt the whole thing?
then you dont have to carry your heavy rack all the way from boulder?

Dan

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 4, 2002 - 01:49pm PT
The Reid book doesn't have enough beta?
What is this? Supertopo?

I want a valley twelve so i can say i got a valley 12, but it has to have a lot of hands, but not too much fingers, and i hate smearing, unless it is solid stemming. edges are good, but not too sharp. it has to be within '36 of my car.
can anyone help?
can i pay chris to design a guidebook just for me?
Super_Star

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 4, 2002 - 03:42pm PT
Hey Dan, that's just what I'm looking for too! It sounds like you and me would be good partners, wanna hook up?
zach

Intermediate climber
taquitz/suicide rock california
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 4, 2002 - 04:48pm PT
WHATS THE DEAL WITH REDPOINTING THE THING.LEAD THAT F*#KER ON SIGHT.WHY CLIMB SOMETHING YOU CANT DO "OLD SCHOOL".NO HANGS OR PRE PLACED GEAR,IF YOU FALL LOWER DOWN AND START OVER.YOU DIDNT SEE TOBIN AND THE BOYS RED POINTING BACK IN THE DAY.AND THEY WERE IN E.B.'S,SWAMIS,AND FIRING IN HEXES!KEEP CLIMBING REAL!!!!!!
John

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 5, 2002 - 06:36pm PT
I agree with mike, Tales of Power. It is one of the coolest cracks in the valley and WWWAAAAAAYYYYY harder than seperate reality.
Super_Star

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2002 - 12:19pm PT
Hey Zach, not to diss on the Stone Masters, 'cause if it wern't for them, we'd all still be aid climbing, BUT, think about the yo-yo tactics: You bring eight guys to the route and take turns pushing the rope up the route until finally you have a toprope on 95% of the climb, then you walk up and "send" it in on-sight, lead, from the ground, no rehearsal style(?). Maybe they should have considered "redpointing". That was the accepted style of the time, so that's what they did, but times have changed. I think "redpointing" in the current sense is an "improved" style, and more valid than yo-yoing. In fact, that was Alan Watts' and the other Smith climbers' reason for departing from the yo-yo style.

Obviously, walking up and on-sighting something with no beta is the best style. But what if I don't get the on-sight? Does that mean I never get to try the route again because anything else would be poor style?

dufas

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2002 - 12:51pm PT
for a sport with no rules, you all have a bunch of them. why do you care if some boulder dude wants to do a 5.12 in whatever style he wants? so he red-points it, and then says he red-pointed a 5.12 yosemite finger crack. so what?
smith rock wanker

Novice climber
upper gorge
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2002 - 05:06pm PT
At a certian point, ethics are for anal retentive zealots. its fun to work, and then redpoint, a crack climb as well as a sport climb. fun is good right? have fun super star.
faller

Novice climber
la
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2002 - 06:44pm PT
On the subject of onsighting vs. redpointing. What's the big deal if you fall on the climb? Doesn't a climber who attempts climbs above his ability demand more respect than one who "onsights" a climb? If you don't fall, then your not pushing yourself hard enough.

I'll agree though, that hangdogging is bullsh#t. If you rest on gear, then your an aid climber. But falling can be great fun! I'm always laughing at the bottom of a fall.

eb

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2002 - 07:00pm PT
"Check out some of the pitches on the Salathe headwall. Worth the hike." Hike to the top of the Captain to rap down and climb? Last I checked there was this rad way to get up to the Salathe headwall that involved all sorts of awesome climbing. Jesus, if I could climb 12 trad I'd be raging all over El Cap and Half Dome, sending long stuff, not dinking around in my guidebook for 100-foot splitters. There's only one Captain--check it out if you're in the Valley.
Please read this by wall kid

Intermediate climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2002 - 07:10pm PT
Have you ever climbed in yosimite before? A 5.12 here is 5.13d back east I'd be very carefull about what you get on to. But since you ask Dyno Hum 5.11d on camp 4 wall and aid route on swan slab 5.11b.
Super_Star

Advanced climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 8, 2002 - 11:12am PT
Yeah, I been to Yosemite before, and I've done some long routes. You may have heard of them...one is called "astroman", and I did one called "the nose" and "salathe wall" have you heard of those? As I said in a previous post...I will not have a good partner with me, so I can't just get on Hall of Mirrors! I need something close to the ground...if you're going to rant about my posts, at least read all of them so you know what's going on. Otherwise, you have have no frame of reference...you're like a child who walks into to the room in the middle of a movie and wants to know what's happening!
please

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 8, 2002 - 02:25pm PT
don't you guys know a troll when you see one. Come on, this one reeked from the get go. Do us all a favor, and quit feeding this kids frenzy. No more posts, he will never climb a 12 in the valley, and has no intention to
hhh

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 8, 2002 - 04:50pm PT
I have not yet begun to rant, motherf*#ker. You think you're such hot sh#t, which tends to make us all think you aren't. You spray about grades more than anything. You're worried about a little stretch of offwidth or an awkward stem or a scratched cuticle, which makes it obvious that you can't anything except crimpers, maybe pockets. And you've named yourself after a goddamned Carls Jr. hamburger--now you've gone too far! Here's a link for ya: climbingboulder.com. Late.
Super_Star

Advanced climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2002 - 03:10pm PT
Well I just got back from the valley, so I thought I'd give you all a trip report. Thanks again for all the great suggestions.

The first day I was there we didn't have much time, so we went to the Cookie as sort of a valley warm-up. I ran into Ron Kauk doing laps on Red Zinger...he's a stud. Unfortunately, I was hoping to try Red Zinger, so I couldn't watch him climb...that would screw up the on-sight. Anyway, after he left I tried it and did on-sight it. It's sweet and it felt pretty hard after the long drive. I had to dig deep to pull it off at the crux. I also did Bev's Tower, Catchy and Pringles.

The next day I warmed up on the Jam crack route, then golden needles, then I on-sighted Crimson Cringe...what a f-ing awesome route. It reminded me a lot of a route in Little Cottonwood called Fallen Arches which I tried once, but haven't climbed. The runout at the start was scarry, it didn't occur to me to use double ropes as I saw a guy do later. The undercling at the top wasn't too bad. I think it's the best granite splitter I've ever done.

The third day we climbed the free-blast, as we were thinking of climbing the captain. (Unfortunately my partner wasn't quite ready for the whole El Cap, so we only did the Freeblast). I had done it before, but french freed the roof and the slabs, this time I did the whole thing without falls, so I was stoked. The half-dollar almost spit me off, I had to do a hand-jam dyno to get into the chimney!

We took a rest day after that, then I went to try Fish Crack. I warmed up on Knob Job(?) a 10b at pat and jack that is sweet...Reid only gives it one star!? On Fish crack I made the mistake of trying it when it was in the sun, then I made another mistake of trying to place gear at the crux. I fell right at the crux, so I blew that...it was a sweet route though. I didn't try it again that day, we went to Arch rock and did Gripper where my partner got poison oak rapping off (bring two ropes...thanks don).

I took another rest day, then came back to Pat and Jack. this was a sunday, so it was crowded and we couldn't get on the routes we wanted to do. We wanted to do sherry's crack...we warmed up on a 5.8, then did the Tube, a cool 11a, but it was warm and greasy and spit me out at the crux. After that, Sherry's was still busy so I tried this 12a...I can't remember what it's called right now, but it's a 165' bolted stemming corner...right facing dihedral. I was able to barely on-sight that. It's a little dirty, would be sweet if more people climbed it. It reminded me a lot of the Red Dihedral pitches on the Rainbow Wall in Red Rocks, there's no holds but you just stem up it anyway...way cool. After that, Sherry's was still busy, so we did one of the botled 10b's to the right of it...that was fun. Finally we got on Sherry's. I can't believe it's not a 3 star route! It was sweet. We still had about 30 minutes of daylight left, so we hustled over to Fish Crack and I fired it in the waning light...I was stoked!

The next day we did Serenity crack and Sons of Yesterday...possibly the best 5.10 multipitch I've ever done.

The day after that was an easy day, we went and did nutcracker, but we got done so early, we decided to try Royal Arches. We simul-climbed it in about 3 hours which was the perfect end to the trip. I like the hike over to the Column and down North dome gully...it's peaceful and beautiful in the afternoon light.

We left the next day, but stopped in Tuolumne to climb Cathedral Peak...there were no bolts on the summit.

Thanks for the beta, I can't wait to go back!
who cares

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2002 - 03:25pm PT
so you want a f*#king pat on the back? i got your 5.12, right here . . .
G

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2002 - 03:38pm PT
That HAD to be radical in disguise......j'see all that text? My GOD man!!
Michael

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2002 - 03:43pm PT
Hey, Super_Star; good job. Thanks for the trip report. Where's the link to the pictures??!
Troll

Novice climber
under stoneman bridge
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2002 - 03:48pm PT
Yeah I know it's a troll but have to put in my 2 cents. Seperate reality a party trick? I'd like to go to that party. how about a few laps on Hangdogflyer SS? 5.12 doesn't get much closer to the ground, and your not so hot partner can TR 10.96, another party trick that's only 5.10.
On Belay!
Annoyed

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2002 - 03:54pm PT
I think I was there when superstar was. Saw him at Pat and Jacks on Sunday. Everyone I was there with were wondering why he was such as unfriendly guy. You'd ask him a question and he'd just ignore you. Either way, go home and don't come back.
BR

Novice climber
The LBC
Oct 31, 2002 - 04:55pm PT
Maybe standards are dropping since the "good ol' days," or maybe some of the various ways some climbers keep score are less prevalent in real life than they are in the mags (which has, indeed, been my experience), but ...

> I ran into Ron Kauk doing laps on Red Zinger...he's a
> stud. Unfortunately, I was hoping to try Red Zinger, so I
> couldn't watch him climb...that would screw up the on-
> sight.

Come one. Give me a break! That's the most ridiculous thing I've read in quite a while (and I'm a lawyer ... I read ridiculous sh#t for a living).

Nice troll. You hooked this fish ...

br
yo

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2002 - 06:56pm PT
dude positively wore out his guidebook flipping back and forth to come up with all those route names. shake off the pump, star
Matt

Novice climber
SF
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2002 - 07:27pm PT
Granted that someone who calls himself "superstar" might be a touch self impressed, but it sounds legit to me. Not everyone who posts here is stuck on 5.8 (though some days, and more so lately, I think that's the case).
So the guy's from Utah or Colorado or whatever and must have developed his self perception in the Boulder area (where attitude matches the altitude), but he sounds friendly enough, what's your issue?
Live and let spew. If he was trolling you guys, he wouldn't be talking about falling on an 11a and repeatedly trying to get to a 3 star 10c.



Br-
If you watch an ascent of a climb, you have blown the onsight, best you can then do is flash, no matter how good at lawer-ing you may be!
=)

Me, I'd probably watch Ronnie just for fun, but you might want to keep him away from your girl (that's just what I've heard).


Karl Baba

Novice climber
Yosemite
Oct 31, 2002 - 08:24pm PT
Congrats on the fun trip Superstar. Glad you didn't limit yourself to the high numbers.

The 12a you tried at Pat and Jack is a Dan McDevitt route called Underclingon. Pusses like me throw a tr on it after leadng the tube!


Peace

Karl
SS

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2002 - 10:16am PT
Actually, it was Rocky Horror Show, I checked my guidebook. It's a really good route...a calf pumper.

I think it's funny how climbers react to a post like this. I used to be a competitive runner, where all people talk about is numbers...split times, mile paces, Personal Records (PR's) etc.. Some people (obviously me) are just competitive, and self improvement motivates me to climb more. I realize that doesn't appeal to everyone, but it does appeal to more people than you think. Don't take it personally...just let me do my gig, and I'll let you do yours. Thanks again for the beta.
SS

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2002 - 10:18am PT
Actually, it was Rocky Horror Show, I checked my guidebook. It's a really good route...a calf pumper.

I think it's funny how climbers react to a post like this. I used to be a competitive runner, where all people talk about is numbers...split times, mile paces, Personal Records (PR's) etc.. Some people (obviously me) are just competitive, and self improvement motivates me to climb more. I realize that doesn't appeal to everyone, but it does appeal to more people than you think. Don't take it personally...just let me do my gig, and I'll let you do yours. Thanks again for the beta.
Matt

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2002 - 03:14pm PT
SS- some thick skinned advice:
Just don't go away thinking that everyone who posts here even climbs outside.

Karl- Have lookad at that underklingon but want to have a bouldering pad under me for making the 1st clips.
Can you tell me this much:
Are those holes in there pretty positive or what?
Because the feet look a bit blank at the start there.
Not Baba

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2002 - 07:51pm PT
I'm not Baba but I just did that route last weekend. The first clip isn't hard to reach at all. Just forget about the fall and hand over hand it nice and smoothly. All the holds are positive to that first bolt. Right after it though, there are a few sloppers in there and may require some feeling around.

It doesn't seem as hard as a 12 but I guess ratings are all subjective. I personally like Cookie Monster more. It's a great sport route with a very intimidating start. That 5.1 ramp leading up to the lieback really intimidated me for whatever reason.
radical

Novice climber
the kitchen table..mmmmm
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 4, 2002 - 05:56am PT
Nope wasn't me G, although I will admit I would love to write a trip report like that....
But that would be abuse waiting to happen, so I just bore my friends with stuff like that...IE Big Horn Mating Grotto last weekend
I do call the report bullshit though-there are discrepancy's-like rapping off Gripper??? Why would you do that? You would miss the best walk off ever.

SS

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 4, 2002 - 10:10am PT
How are you supposed to walk off Gripper? We totally blew it. From the top of the last pitch we went about 50' right, then 200' up then started rapping off of trees to the right...it took 4 raps with our 60m rope and a lot of on-rappel bush-wacking. Should we have kept going up, or do you walk off to the left?
radical

Novice climber
The Haig
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 4, 2002 - 02:04pm PT
Facing the Rock, you walk off left. It is a class 4 or 3 traverse above the entire left side of the cliff. We did it in a rain storm which made the exposed moves that much more exilerating.
Quite the feat to rap off with a 60 meter rope. Would be hard with 2 ropes.
SS

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 4, 2002 - 05:26pm PT
Yeah it sucked...there's a tiny note on Reid's topo near the New Dimensions topout that says "4th class one short rappel" and has an arrow drawn to the right, so that's where we went...we found a few slings so we weren't the first suckers.
Afraid

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 4, 2002 - 08:03pm PT
Astroman if you get frightened!
?

Novice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 4, 2002 - 08:08pm PT
"afraid" to actually read the thread, apparently
LuckyPink

climber
the last bivy
Dec 4, 2007 - 01:11am PT
are yu thinking there is a bad Yosemite 5.12? hahaha at my own joke. LP
the kid

Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
Dec 5, 2007 - 05:45pm PT
Tales of Power is "THE" classic 5.12 to do. Plus you get the bonus offwidth finish.
Crimson cringe is also stellar...
And for the record, cookie monster was done ground up, no dogging, and i placed both pins on the lead.. sucks the bolts are there because it is no harder to protect or sketchier than crack a go go...
ks
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Dec 5, 2007 - 06:27pm PT
Gosh Kurt, are you joshin' or trying to troll us? Do I need to repost Werner's version of how the pins got there? It's one thing to tell tales of livin' large but FA ethics are another story.

Tales of Power is reputed to be a great 5.12 for folks with pretty small hands. I've heard of petite women walking it. Of course, maybe it's not 5.12 then but that's another argument.

Peace

Karl

the kid

Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
Dec 5, 2007 - 06:52pm PT
i stand by my post and my pins...
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Dec 5, 2007 - 07:16pm PT
I have small hands and thought it was stellar
Pins?
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Dec 5, 2007 - 07:22pm PT
Kurt and Werner's stories on this one don't match up.

I'll reserve judgement because, hey, I wasn't there. The forum search function doesn't work well enough at this time to dredge up Werner's story posted here in the past.

I'll bump the thread when it's fixed and ya'll can work out any differences (unless Werner would like to share again)

peace

Karl
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Dec 11, 2007 - 10:17pm PT
Hate to stir up smack but it would be great to have a consensus on the history here.

Here's what Werner posted about the FA here

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=19928&msg=20129#msg20129

"To all you obsessive folks with your bolt problems;
Dave Shultz first bolted it...ask him why, not me. For your info Kurt Smith almost died trying this route on the first ascent. He had his friend aid it with pitons and nuts and cams. (Friend was very inexperienced with placing pitons) At the crux he placed two Lost arrows. When Kurt tried to lead it he fell at this crux. As I was lowering him the pins shifted and if they had come out he would have hit the deck.(they came out by hand). The consciousness at the time was not about bolts or pins or clean but in doing this line free. The rock is fairly crumbly in various places and several KEY holds have broken in the past years making some of the moves harder. Nuts and cams can rip out easily on this cimb and you know the scenario that can result. Most of you haven't seen enough of the people we've picked up at the base after one of these hit the deck missions. Get a life folks and go climbing stop worrying about all this bolt sh#t. Werner Braun"

peace

Karl
Nate Furman

climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Dec 14, 2007 - 02:55pm PT
bump
clustiere

Trad climber
Rock Ridge/ Oakland CA
Dec 15, 2007 - 09:16pm PT
Wow and I thought that I dug for old posts but 5 years wow.
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
Dec 18, 2007 - 10:21pm PT
This is one of the more amusing reads I have had in a while. Back on the first page FS had the best suggestion: Twilight Zone. Please Mr. SuperStar, tell us when you will be here to do it so we can all gather around with popcorn and watch a real 5.12 climber cry.
Watusi

Social climber
Newport, OR
Dec 19, 2007 - 12:53am PT
I always loved "The Crimson Cringe," Beautiful thing it is!
Nefarius

Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
Oct 10, 2008 - 07:17pm PT
Doesn't seem like there was any resolution to the discrepancy over the origin of the bolts on Cookie Monster.... Just curious if anything ever came of this and what the real (true) history is? Karl? Werner?

Also, was pretty psyched to see someone else who sees Fish Crack as .11c/d (either hard.11c or maybe softer .11d) it really is. It's just not .12a.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Oct 10, 2008 - 07:25pm PT
The first pitch of Hotline is fully awesome. The next few pitches aren't bad either. In fact, the second pitch is probably the best 2" hand crack in the whole Valley.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Oct 10, 2008 - 07:54pm PT
"Doesn't seem like there was any resolution to the discrepancy over the origin of the bolts on Cookie Monster.... Just curious if anything ever came of this and what the real (true) history is? Karl? Werner? "

I only know what I read. Werner may know. Kurt has stated his case.

PEace

Karl
Nefarius

Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
Oct 10, 2008 - 07:55pm PT
Thanks, Karl. Just curious if this ended up being discussed somewhere else and I missed it.

Jaybro

Social climber
wuz real!
Oct 10, 2008 - 08:05pm PT
'Tales', you win!
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
May 24, 2011 - 07:03pm PT
Bump. Reading this something like 8 years after the fact, I'd lay even money that the OP was Mike Anderson and he wasn't trolling.

Alexey

climber
San Jose, CA
Jan 5, 2019 - 07:52pm PT
Bump, interesting read after 16 years.
I'd lay even money that the OP was Mike Anderson and he wasn't trolling.
I am reading now Mike Anderson's "Rock climbing manual" why do you think that he is OP Super-Star?
Aeriq

Sport climber
100-year Visitor
Jan 5, 2019 - 08:22pm PT
Will is long gone from Supertopo.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Jan 7, 2019 - 10:25am PT
This thread cracks me up - goes quickly right to heart of the Yosemite and Supertopo culture - or the comical lack of it - when it comes to modern climbing.
Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
Jan 7, 2019 - 11:01am PT
you could lead bachar-cracker.

That was a very overlooked hilarious comment, especially if you've had that f*#ker shut you down a few times..
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