Are we hiring the wrong teachers -or paying them too little?

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Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 11, 2018 - 10:29pm PT
It's also easy to forget another aspect of teaching kids: protecting them.

You only have to read the accounts of student shootings, to hear of episode after episode of teachers blocking bullets with their bodies to save kids.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Jan 12, 2018 - 07:30am PT
I think every generation will struggle with good parenting and good public school systems. And poor areas will struggle more than rich areas, whether there are social efforts to level the playing field or not. Such is life.

When we see inner cities with frozen floors and dilapidated facilities, just understand, we humans have always been seeing that. We can do better but have to want to and doing better costs more money.

I have cause for optimism for the generations of parents after mine - are in general =good or going to be good parents, who want the best they can manage for their kids, who will be positive role models and who will likely throw a lot of the centralized control, authority and mandated budgets of our era under the school buses.

Teachers don't get paid enough. School management doesn't get paid enough. Yet we pay too much for things that don't translate at all to an education that prepares the students for a job in the world. We can fix that but it won't be easy or over night.

But so long as we keep making the 'cheaper is better' decision at every point along the way of school funding, we are always going to have the cheapest assed schools around. Duh.

What a lot of the private, charter and home school advocates really aim for is an "I got mine and to hell with them" system, where their own kids are well educated and f*#k the rest.

Simple, conservative selfishness, in other words. We can do better. And we see it being done better in other countries. The models are out there. Our kids and grandkids will move to adopt more of those successful models I'm quite confident!

DMT
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jan 13, 2018 - 12:12am PT
But so long as we keep making the 'cheaper is better' decision at every point along the way of school funding, we are always going to have the cheapest assed schools around. Duh.

Well said
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 13, 2018 - 08:59am PT
I'm afraid to say that no amount of money or realignment of the education system is going to fix anything, as long as parents don't teach their kids good school habits and values at an early age. Most parents are not doing that anymore.

Young children are being left to lead independent lives without supervision, and they are not developing the life skills and discipline that are necessary to succeed in any learning environment, whether it be vocational or academic.

I think SLR’s post deserves reiterating. Our society has devolved to where everything is
somebody else’s fault.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 13, 2018 - 12:30pm PT
Do you mean that his post is deflecting responsibility from teachers to parents?
kingtut

climber
Jingus Newroutaineer
Jan 13, 2018 - 01:31pm PT
I think SLR’s post deserves reiterating. Our society has devolved to where everything is somebody else’s fault.

Well bro, when one Political Party makes it their ideology that Public Education and Teachers are bad then you are actively promoting disrespect in the classroom.

Its pretty simple: A Republican Politician's job is to make up a story maligning anyone that supports his opponents or opposes his agenda, whether it is true or not. The Anti-Intellectualism and Anti-Science and Anti-Teacher agenda suits their desires to exploit natural resources but its not based on facts.

"Scientists are idiots" because they don't want to sh#t CO2 into the air.

"Universities are against free speech" because they train people to think and be activists with their own agency.

"Teacher's Unions are evil thugs" because they donate to Democrats who support education.

But Betsy Devos (after donating millions to the Republican Party) is charged with further destroying Public Education.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jan 13, 2018 - 06:12pm PT
Do you mean that his post is deflecting responsibility from teachers to parents?
That is exactly what I am doing.
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Jan 16, 2018 - 10:29pm PT


Teachers see bad parents. Parents see bad teachers. Low socio-economic status is the best predictor of poor educational outcomes.




http://www.epi.org/publication/top-charts-of-2017-12-charts-that-show-the-real-problems-policies-must-tackle-not-the-made-up-ones/
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Jan 17, 2018 - 12:39am PT
Well I lost track of this thread. I hope Kingtut is reading. Dude, I was a professional scientist in the Davis Crown Gall Group and went on to teach science. My student reviews speak for themselves. I got eighteen consecutive reappointments. I was a botany and chemistry professor. I was a climbing guide and gym employee and eventually my student athletes won national championships. I taught ninth grade English and Ive published numerous times in the media. I played professionally in several bands and I teach music. I got my start in the climbing world as a tree surgeon. Then I went on to teach about 4000 climbing lessons and had up to forty four kids on my climbing team which was sponsored. We attended twelve National Championships. I was a professional microbiologist for six years, then I taught microbiology at UCDavis for about seven years while completing my Doctoral Thesis. But according to you Im uneducated and dont know anything about teaching because I come from the Professions that I teach. Well I got an emergency credential but that didnt stop me from teaching entire semesters of A/P chemistry, Art, Leadership, US History, sixth grade multiple subject, Ninth Grade English and Economics as well as special ed for severe Autism spectrum disabled K-3. I have completed master teaching with reviews and extensive collaboration and professional development. I have been trained in the most modern teaching methods. According to you Im uneducated and ignorant? Perhaps you may reconsider insulting me with presumptuous, capricious belittling comments. I walk my talk when it comes to teaching the crafts I have practiced professionally.
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Jan 17, 2018 - 01:06am PT
Consider Olympic coaches, many medalists. Julliard and Berkely school of music, Professional musicians. Harvard Lawschool, experienced lawyers and judges. UCDavis medical school, practicing physicians. Gracey academy of Brazillian Jiujitsu, Hoyce Gracey. American Conservatory Theater, Real entertainers and movie makers. Western Ballet Theater, professional dancers. MMA, The California Kid. Mine Safety and Health Administration, mining engineers and geologists. U.S. Airforce, experienced pilots. Special Forces, combat professionals. Emergency Medical Services, veteren EMTs and physicians. Cosmetology schools, real barbours. In fields where real achievement is mandatory for success, you will always find professionals who practiced their craft. In public highschools, you will find recent college graduates and career educators with little or no professional experience. But hey, I guess in our current culture, real achievement and competencey are not required to get a trophy in schools anymore. Its no wonder our hightech sector is outsourcing or importing talent from elsewhere.
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Jan 17, 2018 - 01:52am PT
Well Kingtut, after backtracking and reading your post about the "preeminence" of the UC system, I see you actually support my assertion that professionals are necessary for a good education system. The King School of Law is directed by experienced lawyers and Judges. The Medical School is taught by practicing physicians like my father (OBGYN Oncology, surgical residency). The Vet School has one of the worlds most prominent animal clinics staffed by Vet Doctors. The Biological Sciences are taught by professional researchers. My chemistry professors were chemical engineers for Unocal and Lawrence Livermore Labs. My favorite Economics professor was a world famous Harvard economist who worked in international relations. The Land Air Water Resources division where I studied graduate level soil science does highway construction engineering for Caltrans. The Plant Pathology Dept is the host dept for the USDA and administrates the international germplasm storage facility. I myself am faculty emeritus at UCDavis. So how does it feel to get called out on your statements? I hope you are not spewing racist, anarchist dribble to any of my students. They are Doctors and professors now. And as for your comments about my right wing regurgitation, I was logistics director for Whole Earth Festival for two years, Karma patroller for twenty. I was even "Den Mom." Just because I have reiterated some things that the right has said doesnt mean Im racist or ignorant. Perhaps some of the things they say are true.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 17, 2018 - 07:57am PT
chainsaw, I guarantee you won’t see a mea culpa, let alone an apology from The Special One.
If I’m wrong I guarantee you and he will see one.
gruzzy

Social climber
socal
Jan 18, 2018 - 01:17pm PT
Someone is PISSED
kingtut

climber
Jingus Newroutaineer
Jan 18, 2018 - 02:25pm PT
Hey Chainsaw, my bad for assumptions about your education so my apologies.

Your post however, was not a useful one as more than one responder pointed out and seemed to echo an anti-education set of talking points.

Professional Athletes are multi-millionaires, that's why they don't teach Basketball etc.

Teaching Chem 101 (as you are well aware) has ZERO to do with working as a Chemist.

Dedicated teachers of a particular topic are more useful than all the research grants in the world to students but not Universities, as you should also be well aware. What working as a Chemist is like is not useful to the vast majority taking the class as a pre-req for their life science degree etc....

Sorry to have such a knee-jerk response to the perceived hostility towards teachers (which is a RW talking point) that I took from your post which I found non-focused and perceived as not understanding of the broader reality of secondary school (the principal topic of the OP) or undergraduate education, imo. This is not to say they can't be reformed with more "vocational" education for some students.

In addition, your secondary points about a better system of returning working professionals to the classroom is going to fail in the face of radically different pay structures and the insecurity of working life in America...nor is their necessarily any benefit to an undergraduate, nor be interested in the secondary school level, imo.

You will find me very respectful of anyone that is educated and a teacher, and for my part in demeaning your career I apologize.


regards
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jan 18, 2018 - 05:31pm PT
In the USA, money is God, and the value of most anything is in the money it generates. Public school and mental health are two categories that are vastly underfunded, relative to, say, military spending, because they COST money to run so the cheaper-is-better path is most always taken. Police and fire have better unions and since risk is attached to both professions, they are well funded - or else. And a lot of powerful folks make bank of military spending - in the name of keeping us safe. But in the name of keeping us smart, the dough is lacking.
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