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blackbird
Trad climber
the flat water trails...
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 22, 2009 - 03:51pm PT
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Any of you folks out there know anything about the Boundary Waters Canoe Area (BCWA), MN/ Superior National Forest?
I've got 8 weeks in which to play this summer, and a portion of that I'd like to spend with my butt in my boat on the waters up there. I have heard some about it and have researched the area quite a bit on the net, but first hand information is always nice.
So... Anyone got anything??
Thanks in advance!
BB
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jan 22, 2009 - 04:15pm PT
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I've never boated up there, but spent some time in Ely as a neutrino experiment I worked on once (MINOS) had an experimental apparatus down a mine in Tower, MN. Very nice area, the black fly population makes itself noticed and they do quip that the mosquito is the "state bird."
My impression is that fishing and canoeing are the major industry of the area. 'sposed to be world class.
Fly into Hibing, MN and drive by Bob Zimmerman's childhood home. Or into Deluth and take a bit longer drive... stopping into a diner there is like being in a scene of Fargo... dialog on a trip I made,
"where are you fellas from?"
"California"
"It must be seem cold here"
"Ya, have your ever been to California?"
"No, I've never left Duluth"
"Well, maybe you'll visit someday"
"No, I don't think I'll ever leave Duluth"
with the dead on Fargo accent...
...I liked it, but then again, I like extreme environments, and northern MN is such a place.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jan 22, 2009 - 04:29pm PT
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It's worthy. If you are the mountaineer type, make sure you plan at least 4-5 days so you can get in deep. If you are a sport climber type with only a few days, you'll be stuck in more crowded areas with more worn out campsites. Go for the Quetico if you can. You'll need extra time to get up there, and another set of permits. Down in the MN waters, most of the water has a lot of iron, so it is red, mostly sourced from the same veins. Up in the Quetico, the water comes from elsewhere, and is crystal clear in many places. Scary clear - that feeling of flying because you can see the bottom all the time. Permits were hard to come by some 15-20 years ago when I did trips up there, so I think you will want to make some plans soon. I would recommend looking into an outfitter, who will have permits already, all the gear you need, etc. Get some route advice from them, and try a couple different outfitters because they will likely have different permits to different areas. The goal is to get in 1-2 days beyond seeing people. It's a pretty cool experience you won't get in very many other places in this world - anymore...
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plund
Social climber
OD, MN
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Jan 22, 2009 - 04:49pm PT
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The BWCA is great.....but Quetico is AWESOME. Fewer people, the campsites aren't quite as "improved" as in the BWCA, Quetico just seems a bit further "out there".
Take at least a week....using an outfitter is a good idea, you can benefit from their expertise AND pound on THEIR gear...bring your own sleeping bag and sundries and use their canoes, packs, etc. You can even have them pack your food....
I went thru Seagull Outfitters on Seagull Lake....great spot, great people, great gear...we had brand new Kevlar canoes, felt bad (a little) when scratching them up! A guide powered us to the border checkpoint, then on to the dropoff island, then away we went! It's supersweet catching 19" walleyes from the same spot you swim in....mmm mmm good!
June & September seem to offer a great combo of moderate (??) weather and fewer (????) bugs....bring booze (no cans or bottles allowed)and bug dope!
The sweating Moosehead handed to me by the owner upon our return remains the best beer EVER...
Definitely GO, however you decide to do it....you'll never regret it!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Jan 22, 2009 - 04:58pm PT
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I second the Quetico suggestion. We were there for only 3 or 4 days but saw nada personas! Of course this was only shortly after LaSalle went through. Wish I could say we saw nada skeeters but I cannot tell a lie. I think I would wait to do it in September now, I'm not so tolerant. Be sure and take something to 'sail' with. We had a following wind and 'hoisted' our industrial fiberglass genuine Husqvarna 'brolly. The little lady sat in the bow and hung on for dear life while I steered and hollered, "See ya suckers!"
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blackbird
Trad climber
the flat water trails...
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2009 - 06:00pm PT
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Yeah, I saw I missed the permit lottery and got a little scared until I talked with one of the outfitters up there. They did say that I needed to get busy and get things finalized since the permits are FCFS, but beyond that we didn't really get too far. The girl I was talking with had a heavy MN accent, and apparently I've got a heavy TN accent, so you can imagine the fun we had!!
Any recommended/favorite put in points/trip routes, per se, or just focus on the Quetico area and go from there...??
plund, you need passports for that? I didn't think to ask that when I was talking to the outfitter place.
OK, so I'm traveling by myself, and my original thought was to take my own boat (a sea kayak: Necky Eliza) since that's what both Abby and I are used to and I've done 2 weeks unsupported in it, and spend 5 - 7 nights on the water (that's as much as Abby's done with me, so I don't want to push the old pup.) I'm getting mixed thoughts about that around here, though, and I can't separate whether it's the fact that 1) I'm looking at a solo trip; B) I'm a GURL looking at doing a solo trip; C) I'm looking at a solo trip with a dog or 4) I'm looking at a solo trip with a dog during June - AKA: "state bird" & tick month.
Thoughts on that? Safe for me (a gurl) to do the BWCA solo?? I've backpacked solo before, so I don't see much difference, 'specially since I can rent a SAT phone (I DID manage to get that out of my conversation with the MN folks!)
Also, since the misquito is the state bird, I'm gonna guess that the earlier I can get up there after school the better? (My window is from May 30 - August 2.)
And Reilly, the visual on your story is just too funny!!
Thanks folks; I truly appreciate it!
BB
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Jan 22, 2009 - 06:33pm PT
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BB,
I've done a ton of sailing and kayaking (probably the first sea-yak trip up the Shipwreck Coast on Vancouver Is in '74-that's what the Cape Beale lighthouse keeper told us and he'd been there 12 yaers) but that 'brolly sailing was the best! I swear we were on a plane! I was afraid we were going to broach in one of the troughs!
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plund
Social climber
OD, MN
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Jan 22, 2009 - 06:51pm PT
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BB -- we didn't need passports at the time, but my trip was pre-9/11 so I'm not sure...any outfitter would be able to tell you. Also not sure what the "pup" policy is....I do recall seeing a couple of soloers, one with a kayak and another (a local) with an incredibly beautiful homebuilt cedar-strip solo canoe...on our way in (upwind of course) we passed a party on the way out with two canoes lashed together with cross-branches, and a big ol' tarp sail between two uprights....they were HAULING!! We didn't sail, but paddled out in some developing weather that resulted in surfable 3-4 foot rollers....
Ed H....Soudan Mine, right? That's a super fun excursion, too...2000+ feet down into an iron mine....and cheap! I'd love to get a peek at the neutrino pool....
AMAZING high-grade ore -- 60-70% iron, supposedly "weldable" per the ranger...something like 150 kg / cubic foot.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jan 22, 2009 - 06:54pm PT
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The big issue with soloing is the portages. A lot of people can't lift their boats alone. If you can, and you can walk a mile or two perhaps at most with it, with some rests of course, then you may be okay. There are a lot of portages no matter where you go. If I was soloing, I would also portage around any and all whitewater sections as the consequences of capsizing and losing your boat and/or gear are high. I've seen them play out. I've never portaged a sea kayak. The outfitters likely have solo canoes, and advice for such.
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blackbird
Trad climber
the flat water trails...
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2009 - 07:45pm PT
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As I fully display my ignorance: whitewater sections?!?!?
Ummm... That's the first I've heard/seen about whitewater!! I guess I need to do some diggin', huh?!
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jan 22, 2009 - 07:53pm PT
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Just between some of the lakes. Pretty much the entire BWCAW is flowing. Class I, II typical, otherwise a waterfall or somesuch. There is almost certainly a portage route around all but the tamest. No big deal. Just don't shoot one unless you're solid. It's a long swim home.
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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Jan 22, 2009 - 08:12pm PT
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We spend a week there every summer. Not too much whitewater. We usually put in on the Gunflint trail side- the east side.
I really like the area around Little Saganaga.
Just north of there was where the fires went through- some really hot spots burnt things deep!
I think you'll like it alot.
quetico costs $10/ person per day i think.
We like to go the first week in August- bugs have mostly died off, water is warm enough for swimming, fishing is not too good though.
Probably a good idea to get your reservation in ASAP.
Give me an email if you want more specific info
if you're going solo- I would not bring a sea kayak-unless its super light.
I would suggest that you rent a kevlar solo canoe- weighs about 30 pounds. Portages can be tough so bring some sturdy boots- dont risk your ankles with TEVAS/sandals. It's a wilderness and it is expected that you get yourself out of trouble so its probably best to do what you can to avoid problems
We also bring parachute cloth hammocks- total luxury for camp!
If you make your reservation by March you should be OK
murf
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jan 22, 2009 - 08:21pm PT
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thought the subject line was a mispelt BAWC.
Camped just shy of the North Shore once. Biting flies like you wouldn't believe.
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blackbird
Trad climber
the flat water trails...
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2009 - 07:56am PT
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Munge - yeah... it IS misspelled. Should be "BWCA." Apparently I was too focused on digging out all my skiing gear for this past weekend to notice until you said anything.
Thank you everyone for all the info; it helped tremendously! I'll certainly be stopping through there, but after what you folks have said and what I've read so far, I've got a lot more research to do before getting a permit this week.
BB
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Floridaputz
Trad climber
Oakland Park Florida
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Jan 26, 2009 - 09:10am PT
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Just a little something that did not get mentioned. For the best conditions Aug-sept (sept being the best time of year). The bugs are horrendous before that. Aug will be very crowded, sept perfect, a little cooler. Don't worry about white water there is always a portage around it. The quetico is much wilder, your skills need to be a little better to paddle there. The portages are harder to find, trails less trampled. Be comfortable taking compass headings to navigate. Know the declination too. Outfitters can handle permits and border crossings into quetico.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jan 26, 2009 - 05:28pm PT
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yep, the Soudan Mine... http://www.hep.umn.edu/soudan/brochure.html
I think there are tours that are scheduled for people to go down and find out what's happening. I'll see if I have some pix (on my home box) to show the construction of the detector...
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blackbird
Trad climber
the flat water trails...
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2009 - 07:09pm PT
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Florida - I'd absolutely love to be able to hit BWCA during Sept, unfortunately, I can't do that for the same reason I'm never able to make the Facelift: I teach. Since they "give" us 8 weeks in the summer, they heavily frown on "mental health days" taken during the year, 'specially for a week at a time!!
Ed - pics of the construction of the detector would be fantastic if you could find some to share!!
BB
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jan 26, 2009 - 11:17pm PT
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on the surface, the mine head is just as it was 60 to 70 years ago...
And most of the mine remains the same.. you can tour it in the summer, but not the winter as the bats are hanging out there... hibernating I believe. But on the lowest level there is this huge cavern, and a trippy detector... here it is half-built... with the mural that the MN law required for a public project, art!
That octagon is 8 meters high, and 1 inch thick (sorry for the mixed units...) made of steel and hanging from the side rails. On each octagon is a detector... the steel is magnetized... neutrinos arrive from Fermilab, 450 miles away most of them just pass on by, but some interact in the steel. The detectors sense the passage of this interacted neutrino, and track the charged particles as they move through the magnetic field in the steel. From this information the "type" of neutrino can be determined. The fraction of types of neutrinos at Soudan is different than at Fermilab, and this can be measured by the detector...
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blackbird
Trad climber
the flat water trails...
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2009 - 11:52pm PT
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That is incredibly cool...! I in no way claim to understand much in the way of higher physics but it intrigues me to no end (botany, perhaps... at least I like to act like I do since I have a degree in it; physics, not at all!) but since the mine is tourable during my window, I'm absolutely going to have to add that to the Gotta See list this summer! If you don't mind, Ed, may I shoot you an email closer to the time and get more info?? Thanks for sharing your pics!
BB
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VID
Trad climber
baltimore maryland
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Jan 27, 2009 - 04:34am PT
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have been going into bwca alot since 1984-unlimited trip possibilities-fishing great in may-june-weather unpredictable-july-hot bugs-august can be hot usually cooler-less bugs-sept can be really great early- fishing great-fish spoons-spinners-rapalas-on points -off islands-or anyplace water is moving-check out piragis northwoods company in ely mn-they have a great website-talk to bert or drew about routing saves a ton of time -can rent great canoes -go with wenonah or bell kevlar boat light on portages-fast in water-worked for these guys 2 seasons they are the best---(800)223-6565 or info@piragis.com good luck vid
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