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cowpoke
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 7, 2009 - 09:47am PT
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And living in the city make you dumber?
Psychological research on the cognitive benefits of spending time in nature, and out of the city, is getting press. Boston Globe story:
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/01/04/how_the_city_hurts_your_brain/
The abstract from the study: “We compare the restorative effects on cognitive functioning of interactions with natural versus urban environments. Attention restoration theory (ART) provides an analysis of the kinds of environments that lead to improvements in directed-attention abilities. Nature, which is filled with intriguing stimuli, modestly grabs attention in a bottom-up fashion, allowing top-down directed-attention abilities a chance to replenish. Unlike natural environments, urban environments are filled with stimulation that captures attention dramatically and additionally requires directed attention (e.g., to avoid being hit by a car), making them less restorative. We present two experiments that show that walking in nature or viewing pictures of nature can improve directed-attention abilities as measured with a backwards digit-span task and the Attention Network Task, thus validating attention restoration theory.”
The punch line: “memory performance and attention spans improved by 20 percent after people spent an hour interacting with nature.”
...if an hour gets you 20% gains, then imagine the memory and attention spans of folks living the mountain life.
Tarbuster's classic thread on the lifestyle:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=503440
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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On the other hand, Himalayan mountaineering costs IQ points due to oxygen deprivation ... I forget where I saw that study.
This kind of reminds me of the point Ted Kerasote made about dogs and wolves in Merle's Door. Challenging, varied (but cope-able) environments make brains wrinklier for man or beast.
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drljefe
climber
Toostoned, AZ
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That's a no brainer.
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hossjulia
Trad climber
Eastside
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I don't know about smarter, but for me, how about CALMER!!
One of the big reasons I stay in tourism based jobs is my belief that in order to save humanity, we have to get them out of the city on occasion! I know many of you can relate.
(But just occasionally, I like my small mountain towns SMALL!)
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
North of the Owyhees
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Like HJ, I don't know about smarter, but it definitely makes a person more interesting....
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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When aborigines start acing college entrance exams, or any other type of intelligence test, I will consider the thesis interesting.
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
North of the Owyhees
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College, Schmollege.....College don't make ya nothin'.
I refuse to be impressed by a bunch of college schmucks.
Bastards can't even use the language properly. Eff 'em!!!
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cowpoke
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2009 - 11:53am PT
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TradIsGood, you might want to start your considering...
If you buy Robert Sternberg's definition of intelligence -- the most often cited theorist among psychologists, he was at Yale and is now a Dean at Tufts -- then the critical criteria include the ability to adapt to one's environment and the ability to develop expertise in culturally-meaningful domains.
Here's an example of his work in which he discusses research with US samples and a variety of indigenous people: http://www.psicorip.org/Resumos/PerP/RIP/RIP036a0/RIP03921.pdf
and, he seems to agree with Captain...or Skully = here is an abstract from one of his more recent empirical papers (the very last line gets directly to the point):
We worked in a rural village in Western Kenya to test the notion that academic and practical intelligence are separable and relatively distinct constructs. Eighty-five children (43 boys and 42 girls) between the ages of 12 and 15 years participated in the study. The main dependent variable of interest was their set of scores on a test of their tacit knowledge for natural herbal medicines used to fight illnesses. This kind of knowledge is viewed by the villagers as important in adaptation to their environment, which is understandable given that the overwhelming majority of the children have, at a given time, parasitic infections that can interfere with their daily functioning. We found that scores on the test of tacit knowledge correlated trivially or significantly negatively with measures of academic intelligence and achievement, even after controlling for socioeconomic status (SES). We suggest that, among these villagers, time spent developing academic skills may be perceived as taking away from time that needs to be spent developing practical skills and vice versa. The result is that academic and practical intelligence can develop independently or even at odds with one another.
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Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
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Clean , fresh air is smart no matter how you look at it.
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WBraun
climber
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Does the mountain lifestyle make you smarter?
No.
They come with their big book learned ways. So called smarter than sh'it. Then when something simple comes up and they need to improvise they get that deer in the headlights look and collapse.
Standing there in their Patagonia outfits totally lost.
Modern education ..........
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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I think the mountain lifestyle makes you colder. At least in the winter.
In any case, the study cited in the OP has nothing to do with the mountain lifestyle. It is about city people being taken "walking in nature" or "viewing pictures of nature." This is quite different from being eaten by a bear.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
North of the Owyhees
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Yes, I feel kinda cold, Ghost......And I HATE when I get eaten by a bear.
That's the Worst!
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apogee
climber
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"...if an hour gets you 20% gains, then imagine the memory and attention spans of folks living the mountain life."
I would say that's a non-sequiter. The context of the article is about people whose day-to-day lifestyle subjects them to all the usual stimulus and stressors of the urban environment, which creates something of urban-induced Attention Deficit Disorder. When their environment is changed, the effects of less urban stimulus and the simplicity and purity of the mountains allows more productive cognitive brain function to return. Not too surprising, really.
It does not compare the cognitive or intelligence of people living in the two differing environments. However one measures intelligence, I doubt that simply living in the mountains is more conducive to intelligence. I've observed just as many intelligent people in either environment (and the opposite, of course).
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cowpoke
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2009 - 01:28pm PT
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As apogee and Ghost note, the study getting press is only focused on very limited "experiences" with natural areas. And, if the theoretical perspective of the authors is correct (i.e., that the demonstrated effects are due to restoration), then it would be silly to assume dosage effects such as my question in the op implies. On the other hand, as far as I can tell, the authors do not disentagle alternative theoretical perspectives. Chiloe, for example, hints at an equally plausible explanation for the results: nature has unique stimulating effects for human cognition, perhaps from experiences more subtle than being eaten by a bear. Even if this alternative is a better explanation for their results, there would likely be diminishing returns for time spent in nature. Beyond the study, however, it is interesting to consider the cognitive rewards (if there are any) of time in the woods.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Most interesting discussion here. I always heard there were some intelligent climbers somewhere. I have met some too but they wouldn't climb with me. I have to say some of the dumbest people I've ever met had any number of sheepskins to wave in your face. To wit, look at the deep doo-doo we're in thanks to the multi-sheepskinned likes of Greenspan, et al.
Oh, almost forgot to answer the poll question: in a word, hell no! But as previously stated it does tend to breed 'characters' if not character.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Other then burning spliffs on the chairlift...yeah, prolly...
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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I've been collecting data for most of this decade.
So far my only concrete conclusion is in stride with Ghost's.
Yup, it makes one colder.
Then Cowpoke said:
"authors do not disentagle alternative theoretical perspectives"
Damn straight, isn’t that often the case.
Or they fail to include perspectives altogether, like all the wacky weed them mountain people smoke.
All bets are off!
I think habituation to certain kinds of circumstances can dumb us down in general so I buy the mixing it up concept as the most valid operator in the study.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
North of the Owyhees
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Smarter toward what end?
Define "smarter" as it pertains toward a goal or aim.
You DO have a goal or aim, right?
Or is it for ITS own sake?
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there, say... well, there is wonderful things to behold in the outdoor life, as you learn to grow with it, and be part of it, (and learning its dangers, as well) and, as you use your body to walk through it all, cultivate its beauty by reflecting on it, surely you are stimulating both blood flow and brain, giving wonderful alertness--body, soul and spirit wise...
perhaps though, this can be done in the cities, in some ways, (and it is, when you relate to real people and pets) but then one must ask:
why then do so many city folks yearn for at least a small taste, if not a full-dose of the great outdoors?
it is:
because it draws us into an enviorment of "life" and the ongoing process all around us, in every green leaf, brown tree, or critter, etc... the land around is there, "living", and it stirs us to be alive... (meaning, building are not alive, furniture is not alive, cars are not alive, etc---and, thus, one can be engulfed into stoic, indifference, un-living stuff, unresponsive stuff, for only SO long)...
this earth was set up to be this way, for us... thus, it must have a higher purpose for our bodies than man can realize, at times... man can build cities, but only the good lord can build such awe-inspiring, "life" around us... whether through people-folks, critters, or the greatoutdoor world of living plants....
perhaps folks just need to see THIS fact, as well... then we shall be smart, indeed...
:)
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there timid... say, nice say, there...
the beauty and power of the great outdoors, still needs us to be willing to relate to our fellow man, in some ways... whether through visits, or city-jaunts, or cross-country travel, or home-time suppers, or even babysitting...
its stimulation, is meant to be shared, or, we would withdraw and thus, in one way, be unfruitfull...
but the still, the great outdoors, is a key and strong foundation to have first, if one wants to BUILD WELL, as, this way we can see that a higher-builder is on call, to help us work out our "trail agenda" when relationships, work, or whatever, gets hard...
thanks for the share...
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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"Standing there in their Patagonia outfits totally lost."
That cracked me up. The horror.
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dogtown
climber
Cheyenne,Wyoming
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No just lucky.
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hossjulia
Trad climber
Eastside
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being eatin by a bear..............
hum, interesting
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
North of the Owyhees
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I think, if you're being eaten by a bear, you can STILL be smarter.
Just Knott faster.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Of course, you're smarter in the first place, if you take up the Mountain lifestyle, Duh!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Skip,
You know that is a true story, don't you? A 'reliable' Camp 4 source told it to me in Seattle in the late 70's. Perhaps one of the perps or a witness is lurking. Actually, I was told it was hot bacon grease poured over the offender's tent while he was dreaming of free-soloing the DNB. Did he get a rude awakening! Of course, we NW country bumpkins believed everything we heard from Valhalla. Perhaps that is cogent to the thread topic?
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Hey, man, I ain't got no dang ol' problem here, man... tell you what, worry a little about that son of yours, man, carryin' a dang ol' burger on a pillow.
I... I don't wanna say nothin' 'bout dang ol'... Dad gum, where's the best man?
You know we talked about destiny and the big ol' dipper, man? Well, I'm just like the North Star, I'm always gonna be there, man... just like dang ol' UPS and Hertz Gold, man.
Now gime some fried filet of fried chicken... french fried side of fries... and some fried okra.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
North of the Owyhees
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Damn but I do miss fried okra.
Mmmmmmmmmmm.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
North of the Owyhees
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Hey, I resemble that remark.........Woot!
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cowpoke
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2009 - 08:48am PT
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Jaybro gets to the heart of one of the two different questions people seem to be considering:
1. on average, do smarter people select to live the mountain lifestyle?
2. does living it make you smarter, regardless of your own personal baseline (or potential)?
...or both...or neither?
given that no one has yet randomly assigned individuals to live the mountain lifestyle, a within-person study of variations in smartiness would be cool = follow people who have lived both the mountain and urban lifestyle and ask: are there within-person changes in memory functioning or attention regulation?
by the way, I think Werner's patagonia outfitted folks are the perfect (lack of) practical intelligence example, although most disappointing to learn that those patagonia outfits don't make me smarter...but man, the catalogs are so pretty that it almost doesn't feel like materialism.
[oh yeah, and Tarbuster, I wonder if your argument that organically-fueled inspiration is more common among the moutain folk is really true? maybe, but seems like a lot of progressive stuff getting voted on in urban areas these days too.]
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cowpoke
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 3, 2011 - 12:29pm PT
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A friend and cognitive psychologist at Northeastern University, John Coley, recently completed a study that reminded me of this thread. [The final paper will be in a spring issue of the journal Child Development, but if you can’t wait: an early version of the paper is available on John’s web page http://www.psych.neu.edu/coley/pub/CFB2003.pdf]
But, in case you don't feel like reading anymore than absolutely necessary, here is the short story:
John found that children in rural, suburban, and urban settings are equally good at understanding taxonomic/biological relations among animals and plants. In their early elementary school years, for example, most children recognize that the biological characteristics of one bird species will be more similar to the biological characteristics of another bird species than to the biological features of a fish.
Children growing up in more rural areas, however, develop an earlier understanding of ecological relations that complements their understanding of taxonomic relations. Compared with children growing up in urban areas, for example, children in more rural areas demonstrate an earlier understanding of the fact that a bird and fish sharing a habitat (e.g., a pond) may also share diseases. Interestingly, John finds that the rural children's understandings are similar to the ways that adult experts use both taxonomic and ecological relations to understand relationships between animals and plants (e.g., he has studied the way that commercial fishermen classify relations among fish).
Here is the real kicker (in my opinion): for urban children, time spent in structured activities with parents such as visiting science museums did NOT help them compensate for their lack of experience with nature, at least with regard to the tasks John had children complete. It appears that unstructured time living the mountain lifestyle (or, at least, the rural lifestyle) is key to developing an understanding of ecological relations at an early age.
And, related, a review of some empirical work demonstrating positive associations between children's experiences with nature and their cognitive self-regulation (i.e., attention/concentration abilities) as well as positive emotional outcomes:
http://jmfs1.ortn.edu/myschool/JBeard/Web/Wilderness%20Connections/env%20edu%20research/FaberTaylorKuo2006.pdf
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Smarter maybe, poorer definately.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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you want my coin?
the mountain lifestyle wears you down in a dignified manner.
splitting firewood.
dragging fallen timbers cross slope to your hope,
shouveling snow,
midnight fire stoke,
outsmarting power outages,
farming,
canning winter food supply,
much other common (uncommon?) toil accompanies living up in the elements.
the city life wears you down with shame.
traffic haste,
convenience stores climbing into bed with you,
noise,
smog,
punches in the eye,
kick's to the groin,
puke on your frontsteps manana..
i've done both and i value both experiences.
i wouldn't want to raise my kids in the deep city, no.
i do like them to selectively experience that shite though.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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the ohh tear thought,
the warrior thought,
is that if you really want to soar with wisdoms unthinkable,
and if you really want to behold a fortitude that shy's the mountain,
then get married and have kids.
a woman and her kids, er, our kids,
have honed my person more than any other exposure that has wrecked into me.
great, now im broke,
i gave you my last two cents.
now i gotta go earn somemore.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
the f#%*!n couch.
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We ain't many!
-Kesey
Thanks Norwegian. Im'a dig that one up right now.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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i think it might be halloween, 1991. not sure of the year, but definately a hallow's eve show...
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Isn't "the mountain lifestyle" dumbed down climbing clothing for Boulderites?
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MH2
climber
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Harvard's 1650 charter explicitly states its intention to promote the "education of English and Indian youth of this Country in knowledge and godliness."
For some years... the rough-hewn Cambridge campus was a place where Indians and whites pursued knowledge side by side. Both were required to know Latin and Greek to win admission. And wampum was legal tender for tuition - the cost of a year at Harvard was 1 pound, 6 shillings, 8 pence in English currency. Or roughly 1,900 beads of purple quahog and white whelk.
Upon being invited to send another group to Harvard, one tribe replied:
"We are very grateful for the opportunity of instruction in the ways of the white man. But when our young men returned from their years at your great school, they could neither hunt, nor fish, nor fight, nor find their way in the woods, and were in fact good for nothing. However, if you would like to send us some of your students we will endeavor to instruct them in all the skills necessary and becoming of men."
(rough paraphrase from memory from Touch the Earth, by T. C. McLuhan)
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Good one. Meanwhile, if you have any doubts about the mountain lifestyle enhancing intelligence, just check out the "What is Mind" thread.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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i get hustled ever day up here in the sticks, frickin hillbillys seen me comin,
"oh high there dr sprock!"
after i only visit the hamburger joint one time,
how do they know this? memorize every frickin customer?
try that in the big city,
more like "give me your grocery money and get the f*#k out..."
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cowpoke
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 01:17pm PT
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In a randomized design, a new study demonstrates that backpacking without access to media improves creative problem solving abilities. Further evidence that the answer is likely: yes, the mountain lifestyle makes you smarter.
Here is the abstract and link to the full article. (My bold for emphasis)
"Adults and children are spending more time interacting with media and technology and less time participating in activities in nature. This life-style change clearly has ramifications for our physical well-being, but what impact does this change have on cognition? Higher order cognitive functions including selective attention, problem solving, inhibition, and multi-tasking are all heavily utilized in our modern technology-rich society. Attention Restoration Theory (ART) suggests that exposure to nature can restore prefrontal cortex-mediated executive processes such as these. Consistent with ART, research indicates that exposure to natural settings seems to replenish some, lower-level modules of the executive attentional system. However, the impact of nature on higher-level tasks such as creative problem solving has not been explored. Here we show that four days of immersion in nature, and the corresponding disconnection from multi-media and technology, increases performance on a creativity, problem-solving task by a full 50% in a group of naive hikers. Our results demonstrate that there is a cognitive advantage to be realized if we spend time immersed in a natural setting. We anticipate that this advantage comes from an increase in exposure to natural stimuli that are both emotionally positive and low-arousing and a corresponding decrease in exposure to attention demanding technology, which regularly requires that we attend to sudden events, switch amongst tasks, maintain task goals, and inhibit irrelevant actions or cognitions. A limitation of the current research is the inability to determine if the effects are due to an increased exposure to nature, a decreased exposure to technology, or to other factors associated with spending three days immersed in nature."
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0051474
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 23, 2012 - 01:26pm PT
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The premise could be true as long as bouldering at the Buttermilks is not
considered as part of the 'mountain lifestyle'.
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cowpoke
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 19, 2014 - 02:54pm PT
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a nice review: http://willsull.net/resources/BratmanHamiltonDaily2012.pdf
"We have reviewed many studies that demonstrate impacts of nature experience on human cognitive
function and mental health. These effects have been shown to occur in measures of memory, attention, concentration, impulse inhibition, and mood."
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HermitMaster
Social climber
my abode
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Dec 19, 2014 - 03:32pm PT
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"All truly great thoughts are conceived by walking".
-Nietzsche.
(Stolen from Reinhold Messner's Facebook page...)
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Chugach
Trad climber
Vermont
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Dec 19, 2014 - 04:42pm PT
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Here's the conundrum, if it is true... Smarter and what are you going to do with it? I live in a mountain town with about 3 good jobs in total. Who cares if you're a smarter lifty of nail bender than you would be in the city?
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cowpoke
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 20, 2014 - 07:45am PT
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Chugach, you're right. and you got me thinking. thanks!
improved memory, attention, and impulse control, per se, are not likely the primary (or even secondary) reasons folks spend time or choose to live in the mnts. more of an unintended positive consequence. but, these cognitive benefits -- which are in a domain called "executive functions" -- are also not unrelated to the reasons why time in nature is appealing: the positive effects (cognitive, emotional, and health wise) that the mnts have on us are, indeed, some of the pros in the "pros v cons" of life choice decision-making moments... such as the one you evoke = live in mnt town vs. move to a place with more high-quality jobs.
the qualitative evidence of this is seen when asking a climber, skier, (or surfer minus the mnt), etc. the big "why" questions: why would someone choose the mnt lifestyle over a "better" job? why do we love climbing and spending time in the wild? ...the bottom of the logic hill in those answers is often what the mnt lifestyle does for our brains and our bodies.
the emotional part of this story seems pretty obvious to most: if someone says they enjoy the mnts, they probably do. but, prior to this line of (mostly) randomized experiments, evidence that time in the mnts improved memory, attention, and impulse control was based on anecdotes. the kind shared around the campfire. and when it comes to cognitive functioning, many neuroscientists, psychologists, and education researchers believe there is no better place to get bang for your buck than with executive functions...they matter for nearly every domain of living life well. just as we have speculated around the campfire: time in the mnts improves focus, leaves us less distracted, more "in tune", "in the flow", etc. etc.
I'm preaching to the choir, but around the campfire and those family and friend (holiday) dinners (when it isn't just the choir) conversations about "why" often come up...at least with my family and friends...and these data can be relevant.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Dec 20, 2014 - 08:24am PT
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I'd suspect immersing in any unfamiliar environment stimulates the brain for a bit.
Probably the opposite scenario would have a similar effect. Take a person who rarely goes to an urban environment and measure that after a one hour visit.
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cowpoke
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 20, 2014 - 08:48am PT
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^^indeed, failing to disentangle novelty from nature is a limit to the rct's with children and adults from urban/suburban environments, but in the studies that have (see the Coley work earlier in the thread) it doesn't look like rural children benefit from urban experiences in the same ways that nature appears to affect the brain. getting effects on executive functioning is notoriously difficult -- many nsf, nih, and foundation funded interventions have failed to do so.
novelty and breadth of experience is good, but generally does not have long term implications for working memory, attention, and impulse control (it affects knowledge rather than the cognitive systems that control how you use that knowledge).
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Dec 20, 2014 - 09:19am PT
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Most of these studies seem to refer to intermittent exposures to "nature," whatever that is exactly, rather than long-term immersion. (The exceptions are the aboriginal studies and the rural vs. urban children studies, but all they seem to be saying is, unsurprisingly, that if you live in a natural setting, you will be better adapted to understanding and thinking about the issues associated with that setting.)
There is nothing that says the (outlandish) increases in cognitive function associated with brief exposure to nature will be increased with longer immersions. Even if these brief exposures have the claimed effects, there is nothing to say that there isn't an optimal exposure period, after which cognitive decline results. Indeed, the language of "restorative function" suggests a stimulation dynamic that alternates between the high-demand urban environment and the low-demand "natural" environment. If you live continually in a natural setting, there would be, in the language of the quoted studies nothing to "restore."
Successful physical training seems to consist of a sequence of peaks, followed by declines in performance, followed by higher peaks. If anything like this is true for cognitive functioning, then the "mountain lifestyle," whatever that is exactly, might turn out to be mostly "restoration" and not enough "stimulation."
The almost unbridgeable red-blue divide in this country suggests that urban and rural environments lead to almost incompatible intellectual perspectives, so much so that one has to wonder whether one can even speak of cognitive development independent of the natural and social environment.
If there is any message, I'd say that it is that variety is better than sameness. If true, the "mountain lifestyle" will confer whatever it confers, but increased cognitive capacity won't be on the list.
P.S. I'm just a lowly mathematician, and have no real idea what I'm talking about here.
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cowpoke
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 20, 2014 - 11:19am PT
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rgold, I think your speculation about non-linearity in the relation between time in nature and exec functions is well founded -- it would be very, very surprising (or "outlandish") if the effects were continuously incremental in a positive fashion, even at high doses. nearly all dose-response relations demonstrate diminishing returns. one interesting question here as elsewhere = at what dosage level/threshold(s) would we expect a leveling off...or as you (more provocatively) suggest might the curve start back down. (I'm more skeptical of the latter)
your point about there being nothing to restore for those continually living in a natural setting seems to be another way of saying "baseline levels" of exec function might be higher for those in the natural setting (all other things being equal). that seems important, right? as you note, much of the theoretical arguments these authors provide is centered on the possibility that urban contexts make cognitive demands that undermine exec function which exposure to nature can restore. but you'd have to clarify for me why it makes much practical difference as to whether those in natural settings would have higher exec function because they weren't exposed to the contagion versus they have higher exec function because the nature literally improves exec functioning. the practical implications seem indistinguishable to me, but interesting to consider. did you ideas of why this might be important from a practical perspective?
[footnote = it would silly to argue that urban environments have nothing to offer our cognitive development and it would be naive, if not silly, to expect linear dose-response effects or to argue that rural living has ubiquitous positive effects on cognition. I deliberately evoked these idea in the thread title and op, but I was being facetious. here is an alternative title: "are lab and field experiments with short-duration exposures to nature relevant for understanding the potential consequences of the mountain lifestyle versus the urban lifestyle?: does living in close contact with nature offer small, but practically significant, executive functioning benefits and/or more complex/nuanced understandings of nature's ecosystems?"]
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 16, 2015 - 08:47am PT
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It's true, all the great snipers have been country boys (and girls in Russia).
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Mar 29, 2018 - 10:02am PT
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No....but I was smart to choose it.
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Mar 29, 2018 - 10:07am PT
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Smarter at what?
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Mar 29, 2018 - 12:02pm PT
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Cragar and MH2 are striking closest to my first reactions:
1. Smart is a measure of competence in a domain that has not been clearly specified
2. We adjust to what is required by our environment.
Take a nature granola kid and make him summarize what is happening on a TV show while he also texts with a group of friends and tries to beat a high score in a video game... you might see a melt-down and think the nature kid is stupid.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Mar 29, 2018 - 12:22pm PT
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not book smart, but improved cognitive skills (problem solving). The highest form of "smart" is problem solving.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Mar 29, 2018 - 12:50pm PT
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I can only harken back to Donald Trump who has never been in a range or on a mountain that he wasn't smarter than .
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And that's as n approaches infinity.
Does the smartass lifestyle make you smarter, more of an ass, both or neither.
Ask Grizzley Adams or Alexa or even Tex "don't call me IBM" Watson
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Mar 29, 2018 - 02:02pm PT
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You guys talk too much. It's simple.
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Mar 29, 2018 - 02:59pm PT
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If you have to ask...
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