Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
cowpoke
climber
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 7, 2009 - 09:47am PT
|
And living in the city make you dumber?
Psychological research on the cognitive benefits of spending time in nature, and out of the city, is getting press. Boston Globe story:
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/01/04/how_the_city_hurts_your_brain/
The abstract from the study: “We compare the restorative effects on cognitive functioning of interactions with natural versus urban environments. Attention restoration theory (ART) provides an analysis of the kinds of environments that lead to improvements in directed-attention abilities. Nature, which is filled with intriguing stimuli, modestly grabs attention in a bottom-up fashion, allowing top-down directed-attention abilities a chance to replenish. Unlike natural environments, urban environments are filled with stimulation that captures attention dramatically and additionally requires directed attention (e.g., to avoid being hit by a car), making them less restorative. We present two experiments that show that walking in nature or viewing pictures of nature can improve directed-attention abilities as measured with a backwards digit-span task and the Attention Network Task, thus validating attention restoration theory.”
The punch line: “memory performance and attention spans improved by 20 percent after people spent an hour interacting with nature.”
...if an hour gets you 20% gains, then imagine the memory and attention spans of folks living the mountain life.
Tarbuster's classic thread on the lifestyle:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=503440
|
|
Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
|
|
On the other hand, Himalayan mountaineering costs IQ points due to oxygen deprivation ... I forget where I saw that study.
This kind of reminds me of the point Ted Kerasote made about dogs and wolves in Merle's Door. Challenging, varied (but cope-able) environments make brains wrinklier for man or beast.
|
|
drljefe
climber
Toostoned, AZ
|
|
That's a no brainer.
|
|
hossjulia
Trad climber
Eastside
|
|
I don't know about smarter, but for me, how about CALMER!!
One of the big reasons I stay in tourism based jobs is my belief that in order to save humanity, we have to get them out of the city on occasion! I know many of you can relate.
(But just occasionally, I like my small mountain towns SMALL!)
|
|
Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
North of the Owyhees
|
|
Like HJ, I don't know about smarter, but it definitely makes a person more interesting....
|
|
TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
|
|
When aborigines start acing college entrance exams, or any other type of intelligence test, I will consider the thesis interesting.
|
|
Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
North of the Owyhees
|
|
College, Schmollege.....College don't make ya nothin'.
I refuse to be impressed by a bunch of college schmucks.
Bastards can't even use the language properly. Eff 'em!!!
|
|
cowpoke
climber
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2009 - 11:53am PT
|
TradIsGood, you might want to start your considering...
If you buy Robert Sternberg's definition of intelligence -- the most often cited theorist among psychologists, he was at Yale and is now a Dean at Tufts -- then the critical criteria include the ability to adapt to one's environment and the ability to develop expertise in culturally-meaningful domains.
Here's an example of his work in which he discusses research with US samples and a variety of indigenous people: http://www.psicorip.org/Resumos/PerP/RIP/RIP036a0/RIP03921.pdf
and, he seems to agree with Captain...or Skully = here is an abstract from one of his more recent empirical papers (the very last line gets directly to the point):
We worked in a rural village in Western Kenya to test the notion that academic and practical intelligence are separable and relatively distinct constructs. Eighty-five children (43 boys and 42 girls) between the ages of 12 and 15 years participated in the study. The main dependent variable of interest was their set of scores on a test of their tacit knowledge for natural herbal medicines used to fight illnesses. This kind of knowledge is viewed by the villagers as important in adaptation to their environment, which is understandable given that the overwhelming majority of the children have, at a given time, parasitic infections that can interfere with their daily functioning. We found that scores on the test of tacit knowledge correlated trivially or significantly negatively with measures of academic intelligence and achievement, even after controlling for socioeconomic status (SES). We suggest that, among these villagers, time spent developing academic skills may be perceived as taking away from time that needs to be spent developing practical skills and vice versa. The result is that academic and practical intelligence can develop independently or even at odds with one another.
|
|
Fish Finder
Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
|
|
Clean , fresh air is smart no matter how you look at it.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
Does the mountain lifestyle make you smarter?
No.
They come with their big book learned ways. So called smarter than sh'it. Then when something simple comes up and they need to improvise they get that deer in the headlights look and collapse.
Standing there in their Patagonia outfits totally lost.
Modern education ..........
|
|
Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
|
|
I think the mountain lifestyle makes you colder. At least in the winter.
In any case, the study cited in the OP has nothing to do with the mountain lifestyle. It is about city people being taken "walking in nature" or "viewing pictures of nature." This is quite different from being eaten by a bear.
|
|
Captain...or Skully
Social climber
North of the Owyhees
|
|
Yes, I feel kinda cold, Ghost......And I HATE when I get eaten by a bear.
That's the Worst!
|
|
apogee
climber
|
|
"...if an hour gets you 20% gains, then imagine the memory and attention spans of folks living the mountain life."
I would say that's a non-sequiter. The context of the article is about people whose day-to-day lifestyle subjects them to all the usual stimulus and stressors of the urban environment, which creates something of urban-induced Attention Deficit Disorder. When their environment is changed, the effects of less urban stimulus and the simplicity and purity of the mountains allows more productive cognitive brain function to return. Not too surprising, really.
It does not compare the cognitive or intelligence of people living in the two differing environments. However one measures intelligence, I doubt that simply living in the mountains is more conducive to intelligence. I've observed just as many intelligent people in either environment (and the opposite, of course).
|
|
cowpoke
climber
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2009 - 01:28pm PT
|
As apogee and Ghost note, the study getting press is only focused on very limited "experiences" with natural areas. And, if the theoretical perspective of the authors is correct (i.e., that the demonstrated effects are due to restoration), then it would be silly to assume dosage effects such as my question in the op implies. On the other hand, as far as I can tell, the authors do not disentagle alternative theoretical perspectives. Chiloe, for example, hints at an equally plausible explanation for the results: nature has unique stimulating effects for human cognition, perhaps from experiences more subtle than being eaten by a bear. Even if this alternative is a better explanation for their results, there would likely be diminishing returns for time spent in nature. Beyond the study, however, it is interesting to consider the cognitive rewards (if there are any) of time in the woods.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
|
|
Most interesting discussion here. I always heard there were some intelligent climbers somewhere. I have met some too but they wouldn't climb with me. I have to say some of the dumbest people I've ever met had any number of sheepskins to wave in your face. To wit, look at the deep doo-doo we're in thanks to the multi-sheepskinned likes of Greenspan, et al.
Oh, almost forgot to answer the poll question: in a word, hell no! But as previously stated it does tend to breed 'characters' if not character.
|
|
Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
|
|
Other then burning spliffs on the chairlift...yeah, prolly...
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
I've been collecting data for most of this decade.
So far my only concrete conclusion is in stride with Ghost's.
Yup, it makes one colder.
Then Cowpoke said:
"authors do not disentagle alternative theoretical perspectives"
Damn straight, isn’t that often the case.
Or they fail to include perspectives altogether, like all the wacky weed them mountain people smoke.
All bets are off!
I think habituation to certain kinds of circumstances can dumb us down in general so I buy the mixing it up concept as the most valid operator in the study.
|
|
Captain...or Skully
Social climber
North of the Owyhees
|
|
Smarter toward what end?
Define "smarter" as it pertains toward a goal or aim.
You DO have a goal or aim, right?
Or is it for ITS own sake?
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
hey there, say... well, there is wonderful things to behold in the outdoor life, as you learn to grow with it, and be part of it, (and learning its dangers, as well) and, as you use your body to walk through it all, cultivate its beauty by reflecting on it, surely you are stimulating both blood flow and brain, giving wonderful alertness--body, soul and spirit wise...
perhaps though, this can be done in the cities, in some ways, (and it is, when you relate to real people and pets) but then one must ask:
why then do so many city folks yearn for at least a small taste, if not a full-dose of the great outdoors?
it is:
because it draws us into an enviorment of "life" and the ongoing process all around us, in every green leaf, brown tree, or critter, etc... the land around is there, "living", and it stirs us to be alive... (meaning, building are not alive, furniture is not alive, cars are not alive, etc---and, thus, one can be engulfed into stoic, indifference, un-living stuff, unresponsive stuff, for only SO long)...
this earth was set up to be this way, for us... thus, it must have a higher purpose for our bodies than man can realize, at times... man can build cities, but only the good lord can build such awe-inspiring, "life" around us... whether through people-folks, critters, or the greatoutdoor world of living plants....
perhaps folks just need to see THIS fact, as well... then we shall be smart, indeed...
:)
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
hey there timid... say, nice say, there...
the beauty and power of the great outdoors, still needs us to be willing to relate to our fellow man, in some ways... whether through visits, or city-jaunts, or cross-country travel, or home-time suppers, or even babysitting...
its stimulation, is meant to be shared, or, we would withdraw and thus, in one way, be unfruitfull...
but the still, the great outdoors, is a key and strong foundation to have first, if one wants to BUILD WELL, as, this way we can see that a higher-builder is on call, to help us work out our "trail agenda" when relationships, work, or whatever, gets hard...
thanks for the share...
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|