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bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 18, 2008 - 08:54pm PT
So I'm thinking about getting back into cross country skiing which I think has been renamed 'nordic skiing' by the idiotic yuppies who wanna feel 'nordic'.

Anyway, any tips on places that have good buys?

Any tips on the newer generation of x-country technology? I used to jump on my Mom's ski's and cruise around Valtournanche BITD, but that was early 80's gear. Seemed to work great but I'm sure there's newer stuff they've improved on.

X-country kicks ass because you can just pull off a road and take off, no chair lifts, no 'boarders', no nothin', just take off into the woods and cut a trail.

I used to love it.

EDIT: I have $150 in gift cards for REI from my folks so I thought this looked good.

http://www.rei.com/product/package/48323410,48323406,48322918,48322936,48192020/xcountry_pkg2_08

Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Dec 18, 2008 - 08:56pm PT
Meadow skipper.




Are you talking XC as in skinny skate kickers on a cut and packed trail or randonee (AT) where you will be off-piste skinning up hill for first tracks down?
ron gomez

Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
Dec 18, 2008 - 08:59pm PT
Glacier Point road is a good ski out/in. Dang near anywhere off 395 near the Mammoth area. Upper Owens river area when there's good snow there, nice and flat, no crowds, cool hills for gliding near the area. Royal Gorge area near Tahoe. Schit I gotta go tune up my boards and maybe get out this winter too!
Peace
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 18, 2008 - 09:01pm PT
I just noticed they actually now have a high-top type 'boot'. I used to use a shoe-type. Sweet. The boots look more comfy.

Ricky...wise-ass!
Richard

climber
Bend, OR.
Dec 18, 2008 - 09:03pm PT
Think metal edges!!!!
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Dec 18, 2008 - 09:03pm PT
Okay - just noticed your REI link - so you ARE going to be a meadow skipper.

Have to let others answer then - I only know AT/Randonee.
Mtnmun

Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
Dec 18, 2008 - 09:14pm PT
I need to replace my AT/Randonee skis, what do you recommend for a 220 pounder. I want an agile ski that turns on command and will handle various conditions.
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Dec 18, 2008 - 09:23pm PT
Mtnmun - take a look at any of these for AT -

Black Diamond - http://www.bdel.com/gear/skis_overview.php - the Megawatts and Havocs set up well for AT.

G3 - http://www.genuineguidegear.com/g3_skis.html - especially the Reverends. (I have some of the old Barons - good ski)

PMGear (Powder Maggot Gear) - http://pmgear.com/index.php?cPath=52
Handmade by Reno/Tahoe locals - super combination of power and lightweight.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 18, 2008 - 09:26pm PT
Ekat, I talking about a touring ski, x-country, not a lot of downhill.

Just cruising through the woods and stuff. I have downhill skis, but that's grown a bit tiring with all the sh#t you have to deal on the slopes.

I'm talkin' backcountry/anywhere touring.

X-country, baby.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 18, 2008 - 09:36pm PT
I've gone downhill and uphill in x-country ski's, just not super long runs.

Yeah, some putting around, but hills (not downhill runs) aren't a problem. I'm pretty experienced on x-coutry rigs.

Snow shoes disallow the coasting down hills. Going uphill in x-country skis is almost as easy as the same in snowshoes if you know what you're doing.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 18, 2008 - 09:36pm PT
Funny thing is, old schoolís 1970s style cross-country ski touring seems to be fully cobwebbed these days.

Most people either skate ski or teli and donít have a clue that thereís a whole margin in between.

AT/Alpine Touring/Randonee (and now Rando Racing) is yet a whole other beast.


But to keep it short and simple, if you really want to take some skis out in occasionally/usually tracked and sometimes untracked snow 'n goose around on them, you want a pair of Asnes Nansen with a short skin in the kick zone/wax pocket.

Typically youíre actually going to be on summer trails that people get out on and ski in the winter so they will be tracked somewhat, but often at the finish of a tour to get up to a high lake or a cirque or what ever, itíll be breaking trail.

The ski Iím talking about is perfect for these activities.

 lightweight
 metal edges
 wood core
 waxable base w/tracking groove
 usable camber for a realistic kick and glide
 a nice balance of sidecut/length for flotation, breaking trail and occasional turns.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 18, 2008 - 09:41pm PT
What she said...
Sir loin of leisure...

Trad climber
X
Dec 18, 2008 - 09:48pm PT
skiing sucks man,curling is where the radness is...live to sweep!!
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Dec 18, 2008 - 09:52pm PT
Powder hogs rule dog.

Otherwise you're just jogging with really long shoes.
Sir loin of leisure...

Trad climber
X
Dec 18, 2008 - 09:53pm PT
sweeepy sweeepy sweeepy ..so rad
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 18, 2008 - 09:54pm PT
"jogging with really long shoes"

That's pretty much it, plus a bit of glide, and some nice descending.
Sir loin of leisure...

Trad climber
X
Dec 18, 2008 - 09:57pm PT
and sometimes the big stoney things hit each other...way gnarly stuff!!
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 18, 2008 - 09:59pm PT
I'm the wrong one to ask about the trendy stuff. I'm still using a 70's pair of mica base Epokes or Karhu XCD's with a smooth base and wax.

Wax is geting hard to find.

I am intrigued by the high top light weight BC binding and boot setup the rocket scientist uses. at 72 he can still out turn the rest of us with those.

I do need new boots.

Good photo Walleye. Been up and down that road a couple of times.
quartziteflight

climber
Dec 18, 2008 - 09:59pm PT
ha ha

snowshoes do suck tha donkey dong!



On groomed trails you can skate on a regular setup. Just not as cool as the old dudes wearning spandex. har har har
Mike.

climber
Dec 18, 2008 - 10:00pm PT
Split, man.

http://www.voile-usa.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=1110-78&Category_Code=SB&Product_Count=1
Mtnmun

Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
Dec 18, 2008 - 10:00pm PT
What about wax for the Rondonee's? I'm tasking mine to a shop next week, but I want to do it myself. What do you recommend?
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Dec 18, 2008 - 10:02pm PT
Splits?

I don't think Bluering can use splits unless he has a soul tattoo and a Prana beanie.
Sir loin of leisure...

Trad climber
X
Dec 18, 2008 - 10:04pm PT
walleye,is that really you skiing ?? Gotta be a stunt double...
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Dec 18, 2008 - 10:10pm PT
Good overview on DIY wax and tune - http://www.skituning101.com/


For supplies, I use these guys - http://tognar.com/
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 18, 2008 - 10:12pm PT
For Ca all you need is two waxes and two klisters

A cold dry snow wax that you'll carry mostly as wishfull thinking, but it's incredible when it works.

A wet snow wax to use most of the time as a base wax

A silver klister for a kicker most of the time. About a 4-6" patch on the back side of the camber. Get it in the middle of the camber and you might be haulin clods.

A red or universal clear kilister for when the sun comes out.

I never have owned skins and can keep up or stay well ahead of everyone I've ever skied with that had either waxless bases or skins.

Down? that's another story. I suck at it.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 18, 2008 - 10:16pm PT
When wax is working, it is superior because you don't get kick at the expense of glide.

Short skins are superior to wax when:
 the terrain is steeper (much less herringbone style climbing work)
 the snow temperatures vary enough that waxing becomes problematic

With a short skin you're always sacrificing glide, but you get consistency and predictability, with a surprising degree of glide anyhow.

Forget full-length skins for regular touring.
And I wouldn't use short skins if I were just out in the flats.

(I am never just in the flats, tho, cuz this is about mountains)
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 18, 2008 - 10:39pm PT
As most everyone has been saying,
Proper gear selection is everything.



It is chosen in accordance with the anticipated terrain.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 18, 2008 - 10:41pm PT
For example:


Artwork by a Ouch!




oops... wrong photograph ..... but you get the idea.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 18, 2008 - 10:41pm PT
Asnes Nansen 190cm metal edged ski & all-wheel-drive BMW:





Hat by eKat!!!
Maysho

climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 18, 2008 - 10:50pm PT
Sayin hey to fellow and sista nords Walleye, Blinny, Tarstrider!

Just got in from a 2.5 hour skate sessh last hour in the howling blizzard. It is raging here at Donner Summit, supposed to get two feet tonight.

Bluering, as has been said, figure out where you are most likely to go first, and there is not one perfect all terrain setup.

One that comes close however is the Fischer Rebound, or the Salomon 88 (same skis, salomon buys em from fischer and paints them orange.) They are waxless, metal edged and shaped with sidecut, but also ultralight, you ski them short, and you run them with a light backcountry boot and salomon bc binding or nnn bc. You can stride like a racer, and also make decent turns. They do not fit in groomed tracks, but that doesn't sound like your scene anyway. For big mountains or carrying a big pack, go bigger. Though I have taken my Rebounds way out there. My son and I skied Rock Creek to Mammoth in 18 hours with that rig on all types of snow. Often I use kicker skins (as wisely suggested by Roy upthread).

IF you get really into it though, you gotta try a well waxed ski in the track sometime, for that total flyin feelin....


Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 18, 2008 - 11:13pm PT
These work perfectly for me: an old Garmont, which makes a nice bridge between floppy leather touring boots and heavier, less forgiving plastic stuff:



 Leather uppers with nice stiff ankles to help with forward tracking in heavy snow and occasional turns,
 A single in-step buckle to prevent heel-lift (blisters)
 Solid rubber toe & heel counters for busting crud
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 18, 2008 - 11:26pm PT
This is what Iíd buy if I had to replace the Garmonts above, the Rossignol BCX11,
Light, hybrid plastic/nylon 75mm nordic norm:
(and they don't make your but look big)

dmalloy

Trad climber
eastside
Dec 18, 2008 - 11:38pm PT
sheesh, it took like 47 posts before Maysho actually gave some worthwhile advice out of all this.

Fischer S-Bound series are not the greatest ski ever, but they are nice and work really well for a good price. There is a whole range that span the spectrum from something that is nearly a track/groomer ski to something that with a big sidecut and shape for turning. The Outtabounds Crown is great for meadow and forest cruising, with some technique and good snow you can turn them pretty well.

http://www.fischerskis.com/en/products_nordic_ski.php?parent=40081

Other people make similar skis, there are those out there who swear that Karhu are leagues above Fischer.

Some 3-pin bindings, Voile makes 'em with heel pieces you can attach for extra turning power if you want that.

Forget leather boots if you want to turn at all or have warm feet in cold weather, get some Scarpa t-3s or whatever the Garmont equivalent is (Excursion?). (Yes, I know you old dads can turn like crazy in those leathers and that plastic boots are like wearing condoms....my grandad started his car with a hand crank every morning, should I do that too? :)

Kicker skins get you up steeper slopes, but that only matters once you are good enough to ski down. The waxless pattern and some switchbacks put me on top of stuff that scares me plenty.

If you are in Mammoth you can demo all this stuff at Mammoth Mountaineering...or find a place in Tahoe that has similar stuff to rent.

Much fun to be had rambling around the hills with a lightweight touring setup like this
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 19, 2008 - 12:25am PT
I'm definiteley getting the cc skis. way more useful than snowshoes, more versatile...

Jaybro

Social climber
wuz real!
Dec 19, 2008 - 12:36am PT
Was that from the Vail Ski museum, Roy?

There are an amazing amount of specialized ski setups these days, I own several. Though mostly, for me, it comes down to skating, or some sort of Tele rig.

While that is cool, and allow formany, 'unparalleled' activities, there is something to be said for the Seventies, three pin/lignistone combos that we sort of forced to do everything; I don't miss emergency tip replacements, though.

Especially if you are a flatland based, recreational skier in somewhere like california. If, you live in the Mtns you have an idea, when you get up in the morning, what kind of rig will work best for the day. When you load on to I-80 do you take everything that might work?

All of my ski setups are pretty specialized. I don't know what to reccomend Bluering spend his $150 on, though there probably is a good answer out there...
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 19, 2008 - 12:51am PT
Jay:
That picture is one I took while inside the American Mountaineering Museum, Golden Colorado.
http://www.bwamm.org/
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 19, 2008 - 12:55am PT
"I don't know what to reccomend Bluering spend his $150 on"

$150?
May as well get a hooker.
Can't touch a ski package worth kicking around on for that...

10 years ago, here in Boulder, you could still pickup 210cm Fisher Europa 99's for 40 bucks
(mounted, used, & scratched).

And for general mountain touring, NOT touring to turn, that gig still works great.
(And yes next DR will soon be posting up all sorts of references to skiing Dana Couloir & etc on such gear, but... considering how things have progressed for tele gear...)
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 19, 2008 - 01:04am PT
"I don't know what to reccomend Bluering spend his $150 on"

well, it'll prolly all go to those new cc skis....here I come.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 19, 2008 - 01:13am PT
Excellent!
Get some gear, get some exercise & and have fun.

No doubt we've significantly confused you and likewise entertained ourselves during this meaningful process of tossing out cheerful advice.
Jaybro

Social climber
wuz real!
Dec 19, 2008 - 01:15am PT
No doubt!

But we meant it in a good way!



Never made it to that Golden Museum...
Doug Robinson

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Dec 19, 2008 - 02:29am PT
Being "meaningfully entertained" and all, I was going to let this whole discussion slide.

But

Mayfield made me do it. He pointed me onto those Rebound Crowns. I demoed them on groomers with NNN-BC hightops. Cruiser on intermediate runs, and I could get down black diamonds off the cornice, but it wasn't pretty.

Bought em anyway and mounted simple pins. At the same time my favorite leather boots gave out and I was tired of wet feet, so I caved into a pair of Garmont Excursions.

This feels like modern cross country mountain skiing. A ski like a short, classic alpine ski, but lighter, better turning and with fish-scales. They climb anything I can switchback, cuz aerobic is the limit of climbing anyway, not steepness. They ski the black diamond runs about 85% as well as my full-deal K2s, and they'll get down the double diamonds. Bought another pair so I could get my friends to try em too, and now I like the slightly fatter Atomic Chugach better. The waxless base slows em down, sometimes annoying when you want liftoff. I carry skins occasionally, but I haven't mounted them in years. Those boots with the flo-form liners are embarrassingly comfortable. Kick-and-glide 20 miles, no problem. A versatile rig, you can enjoy everything from skating lakes to cutting across ridgelines.

I still like to wax when it's blue hard wax, or better Jack Rabbit Dry. But for the Sierra, where you often get a wide range across soft wax and klister conditions in a single day, I get more skiing done with waxless.
Jaybro

Social climber
wuz real!
Dec 19, 2008 - 02:37am PT
"aerobic is the limit of climbing anyway, not steepness."
 Possibly the true-est line on the taco, even if it's about skiing.
Dick_Lugar

Trad climber
Indiana (the other Mideast)
Dec 19, 2008 - 10:44am PT
Reminds me of a funny story. First year I moved back to WY from CA and being rather green to the backcountry ski scene, I hooked up with a couple WY natives for a ski trip to Clouds PK. One guy was the high school X-C ski coach and experienced backcounty skier and the guy was one of his ex-star X-C skiers on the team and exp. backcountry skier.

I had just learned to X-C the previous year in N.Cal working up in Bear Valley. I had finally became somewhat proficient at both skating and classic by the end of the ski season.

I worked at a mtneering shop and had bought 2 sets of skis with my employee discount: a pair of tele skis and X-C touring skis. Now, on my first major winter camping and tele skiing trip, I figured I would effortlessly ski in on the touring skis and strap the tele skis onto my pack for the backcountry skiing on Cloud Pk.

When I showed up for the trip with ALL my gear, my two companions looked at me in disbelief. Knowing better than them of course, I went ahead with my plan knowing that I would be gliding by them on my 210 double-cambered missiles and they'd be really impressed by this Cali-transplant's ingenuity and resourcefulness!

As we started out on the 15-mile r/t expedition, loaded with my 50lb. pack and extra set of skis (and 5 lb. summer sausage, that's another story for another time), I noticed there was NO glide whatsover when I tried to kick! WTF is going on here?!?!? As my two buddies pulled away from me on their WAXED tele skis at a steady pace, I soon found myself skiing alone and demoralized.

The reality of my decision soon was apparent: There's apparently no such thing as kick-n-gliding with 50lbs. and an extra set of skis on your back!
Eggstele

Trad climber
Kings Beach, Lake Tahoe
Dec 19, 2008 - 11:01am PT
Hi Bluering,

Not sue if anyone recommended this as I did not read all posts.

I have been doing a lot of touring the past several years, including a continuous ski around Lake tahoe. I have found the ultimate x-country set up to be metal edged scaled skis with three pin binding and lightweight plastic boots such as garmont excursion or Black diamond T3. It is more than you need most of the time, but for the few moments you want to make turns, it is worth having. This system also provides much more control and float even when just tooling around in the flats

I have not got a pair yet, but the Karhu Guide is a scaled fat ski with metal edges. I tried out a pair one day and it is an amazing ski.

This set up is a bit of an investment $400-$700, depending on if you find a deal or not, but is well worth it, especially if you like to go down hills and make a few turns every now and again.
Maysho

climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 19, 2008 - 11:04am PT
Nice Doug, I will have to check out the Chugach's.

Regarding boots, again depends on what you are into. I like the lower profile of the Salomon BC boots/bindings or the other boots that fit a BCNNN binding. Unlike the three pin, these do not overhang the ski, thus having less resistance in the snow, not scraping skier set tracks etc. So if covering miles, and really learning to stride ie. leaning forward, not just shuffling along, interests you try the sleeker boot setup. Once you learn you will turn in that gear just fine. If learning to turn is your emphasis and you might get into steeper stuff, go with the three pins.

Wow, it blew and snowed hard all night, wild wind formations and cornices out the window! Don't delay, get your gear and get out there!

ps. if coming to N. Tahoe/Truckee, Pacos in Truckee rents the setups I am describing.

Peter
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 19, 2008 - 11:06am PT
Thanks for all the advice, fellow Tacoheads.

I do appreciate it.
klk

Trad climber
cali
Dec 19, 2008 - 11:37am PT
Tar: "Funny thing is, old schoolís 1970s style cross-country ski touring seems to be fully cobwebbed these days. Most people either skate ski or teli and donít have a clue that thereís a whole margin in between."

Bonus reply.

I learned to Telemark in soccer shoes and pins. After fifteen years out of skiing, I've been trying to get back the past year, and the market in Cali appears to be almost perfectly divided into "hipper-than-thou" ATers on the one hand and skaters on the other.


Bluering-- I'm exactly where you are, trying to get a set-up that will let me thrash around on trails with an occasional run for a season or two. I guess I'll find out if my knees can still take the Teles.
stnmn

climber
intransit
Dec 19, 2008 - 11:56am PT
Randonee is dumb and noone should do it because it's ghey and nowhere near as hip as telemark and "nordic". Please do not go AT skiing and stay with skate skiing on metal edges. It's way more fun. Fresh tracks are just overrated and you can hurt yourself out there.

Thanks for your cooperation.
Nefarius

Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
Dec 19, 2008 - 12:07pm PT
"At the same time my favorite leather boots gave out and I was tired of wet feet, so I caved into a pair of Garmont Excursions."

I have these too and really enjoy them. Scored and paid $25 bucks for them - never worn and still had the stickers on them. :)
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 19, 2008 - 12:50pm PT
"So if covering miles, and really learning to stride ie. leaning forward, not just shuffling along, interests you try the sleeker boot setup." -Maysho.

For pure touring, which for some may sound like a misnomer (and rightly so due to local terrain considerations requiring plenty of real turning on descents), I think Mayfield has it here. The plastic versus leather/lightweight thing is generally, though not absolutely, more about turning. If you want to tour to get to an area to go make turns, and youíre carrying a pack full of avi gear and hut supplies, forget leather. But if youíre trying to get some aerobic fitness out on backcountry trails, plastic can be a bit much. I have lightweight plastic; but I donít use it for my standard aerobically oriented tours.

There are obviously shades here and something like an Excursion or a T3 isnít necessarily overkill for touring as it does add stability and ensure more confidence coming down even if all youíre doing is wedging down narrow trails. My wife uses a T3 with the Thermo fit liner for her touring set up, because it gives her much more confidence and control coming down and the liner has accommodated a few adjustments for her myriad foot issues. But she tends to shuffle going uphill, while Iím nearly running (gliding) in my lighter footwear. (sheís actually faster in snowshoes, because she can flat out run in them for up to two hours straight)


For backcountry touring, I'd probably rather see a beginner be a bit over geared, because control is a safety consideration.

Nevertheless, Coloradoís snowpack is pretty treacherous. 95% of my tours I do alone and Iím absolutely respectful of staying off of (and out from underneath) avalanche prone terrain, so Iím just not engaging slopes were I am doing much turning at all. Every weekend of every winter for the last 10 years Iíve been out on tours requiring anywhere from 2 to 7 hours to complete. Most all of this is in the trees, I rarely stop, am consistently breathing hard and at my turnaround point, Iíll poke out into the wind up into a high cirque, snap a couple pictures, point Ďem back the other way and make like four gentle turns down into the woods and reengage the narrow trails.

This is a terrain & aerobic consideration which prompts a fairly narrowly restricted old-school cross-country touring gear requirement. So I choose lighter footwear with an overboot/supergaiter for warmth.


klk

Trad climber
cali
Dec 19, 2008 - 01:23pm PT
Tar: "Every weekend of every winner for the last 10 years Iíve been out on tours requiring anywhere from 2 to 7 hours to complete. Most all of this is in the trees, I rarely stop, am consistently breathing hard and at my turnaround point, Iíll poke out into the wind up into a high cirque, snap a couple pictures, point Ďem back the other way and make like four gentle turns down into the woods and reengage the narrow trails."

Exactly what I'm looking for. Unfortunately, I can't get boots to fit my EE forefoot/D heel feet. I might have to ramp up to serious plastic just to get something that can be reshaped. Very frustrating.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 19, 2008 - 01:29pm PT
klk

Trad climber
cali
Dec 19, 2008 - 01:38pm PT
Hey DR, if you're still reading this thread, have you seen Dan Asay lately? I was going to bite the bullet and ask him to make me a pair of boots. But the number I have for him seems to be loaded with unanswered messages.

Maybe his xmas came early . . ..
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 19, 2008 - 01:39pm PT


Dick_Lugar

Trad climber
Indiana (the other Mideast)
Dec 19, 2008 - 02:26pm PT
Tarbuster...a few more posts like yours and I'm going to print them off and compile them into the "Climber's guide to X-C skiing!!!" hahaha!

I love all the pinheads/barheads that have come out of the woodwork on this thread. This is seriously cutting into work productiviy though.

For me, my Fischer E99's touring ski (skinny, light, and w/metal edge) have been my go to ski for logging in miles in the backcountry. I went with the 3N boot and binding system (steel bar in the toe). My boots were a leather foot w/upper plastic cuff for support. When I wanted to make tele turns, I jumped onto my Fischer GTS tele with the same binding, sans cables, and hit the lifts.

The E99's were terrible for teleturning on this system though, groome or backcounty. The GTS's were fun on groomed slopes or soft powder, but I missed cables when you hit the wind packed slab/soft snow mix. In the end, I got pretty good skiing steep stuff on the GTS's without the cables. It definitely forced you to USE good technique.

A few years ago I rented some tele skis and T-1's, cables and was blown away how easy it was...almost felt like I was cheating, but I had a blast. I almost tempted the double-diamonds at Steamboat with this set-up, but lack of conditioning ultimately made that decision for me. If I had the dough, I'd probably trade up for a set-up like that for the lifts.

Lastly, anyone here embrace the "Chevron" pattern for waxing your touring skis? Works great for those varying conditions throughout the day...cheers!




Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 19, 2008 - 02:45pm PT


Dick_Lugar

Trad climber
Indiana (the other Mideast)
Dec 19, 2008 - 03:01pm PT
Sweet photos!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 19, 2008 - 03:41pm PT
You're killing me, Roy, with these pics...in a good way.

I took a half-day off work today, I'm heading out to look at skis in a bit (after another beer)

The Mountain View REI doesn't carry xc/telemark stuff so I'm heading to Saratoga. There's an Any Mountain nearby too but REI, I got that $150 head start on the pricetag, ya know?
Maysho

climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 19, 2008 - 03:57pm PT
I can vouch for the Berkeley REI ski sales crew, I clinic them myself! They probably have the best selection and the most knowledge.

Peter


bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 19, 2008 - 04:03pm PT
Well, Peter, I'm down the street from Saratoga. The dude at MV said only Saratoga and Berkeley REI's carry full ski dept's in the Bay Area so hopefully the Saratoga store is comparable to the Berkeley one.

Thanks!
Jaybro

Social climber
wuz real!
Dec 19, 2008 - 04:10pm PT
Another vote for the Berkeley REI. plus Chipotle is next door.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 19, 2008 - 04:16pm PT
"Tarbuster...a few more posts like yours and I'm going to print them off and compile them into the "Climber's guide to X-C skiing!!!" hahaha!

BINGO

This thing, for me, ain't even about skiing.
See all that delish' Colorado pow pow???
I couldn't care any less about making turns init.

It's about:

 Mtn travel (birds/rocks/trees 'nshit)
 Fitness (to stay frosty for springtime 5.9+)
 Surrogate day at the crags (same feeling as 8 pitches of 5.6d, plus long approach/descent)
 I don't even use poles (skate, tour, classic ... all of it, no poles: arms too shot)

Go git' it Bluey!!!
Karen

Trad climber
So Cal Hell
Dec 19, 2008 - 05:30pm PT
Love my Karhu Guides!!! but also like my fat K2 telemark skis for more serious uphill stuff~gotta love the ski crampons too, no sliding backwards for me...! :-)


Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 19, 2008 - 06:38pm PT
High Sierra Hound Dog!!!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 19, 2008 - 06:39pm PT
REI was uber-crowded (shock!). I went in an checked all the rigs out, came home and cracked another beer, ordered online.

You can even use the giftcards online...kick ass!!!!!

I should receive them Dec 31st. Merry Christmas to me!!!!!
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 19, 2008 - 08:30pm PT


Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Dec 19, 2008 - 08:32pm PT
I hope you brought your shovel.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 19, 2008 - 09:32pm PT
No shovel, just passing through...
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 19, 2008 - 09:34pm PT
And as I was saying before,
Gear selection in accordance with anticipated terrain is essential:



Darnit!.... wrong photo again.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 19, 2008 - 09:39pm PT


Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 19, 2008 - 11:07pm PT
Doug Robinson

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Dec 20, 2008 - 06:24am PT
Hey klk, Dan Asay's shop is in the back of the Rubber Room in Bishop. Just call him there. His custom boots are the best!

Dan and I were tinkering for awhile with leather XC boots built up on carbon fiber midsoles. Kick-and-glide and hold an edge on the headwall. Still my all-time favorite ski boots, but the market just went the other direction.

Lately saw a photo of a randonee racing boot, way light on a carbon platform that looked a lot like ours. I get tempted to revive it.
klk

Trad climber
cali
Dec 20, 2008 - 12:15pm PT
Thanks DR. The number I had for him at Asay Boot doesn't seem to work anymore-- I'll call Tony.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 20, 2008 - 01:10pm PT
That Rando racing thing is really taking off out this way.
Not that there's anything wrong with it.


http://www.bouldernordicsport.com/



I hear tell the gear is now lighter than downhill tele stuff.
DR, maybe you can comment on this one, sort of technical>>>>

It's been said that the pivot point for Rondo gear is actually better for touring than traditional 3 pin 70 mm Nordic norm. (and probably the same for the new NNN backcountry stuff, which is essentially a beefed-up version the current classic racing platform) pretty sure I've seen modern Tele bindings which have an alternate pivot point...

Sacrilege right?

I once had a pair of Europa 88's with a Silvretta Grasshopper binding, and the mid-weight leather boot that matched the set up had that squared off catch, just a bit of an extended welt up at the toe, and grooves back by the heel. In the Indian peaks here in Colorado, I checked the system by skiing in many miles, then cramponning up, then rockclimbing to a summit. 'Worked great.

'Pivoted just like modern Rondo gear, but was otherwise really a touring set up. People also used mountaineering boots in those bindings, yes?
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 20, 2008 - 04:08pm PT
Here is where I expose my true colors and all of you guys realize I am just cooked.
(you knew that alreadyÖright)





Sure this is way too much ski for the boot; but for touring only and not any sort of aggressive turning (a distinct liability in that regard), this is the modern equivalent of the old Silvretta binding paired with a mountaineering boot that had a good welt on it.

Remarkably this tours trails just as well as my three pin set up. The critical difference being not so much a lack of ankle support, but Iíve got no buckle across the instep to stop heel lift. LOWA once made a hybrid ski mountaineering boot, plastic with two buckles. It was pink/chartreuse and called the ďQuantumĒ.

For approaches and general mountaineering, even rockclimbing, this actually works and the boot is a lot more forgiving for walking and climbing than a plastic mountaineering boot. You canít really go rockclimbing too well in a BCNNN boot.
Doug Robinson

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Dec 20, 2008 - 04:55pm PT
Wow, Roy. Typing most of the morning, and here I was gonna get out and work it a little.

Actually, I still will. Gotta put in one-K hill climb on a dripping trail in the redwoods to reduce the BS quotient and bring me a step closer to snapping into the ski season. Praise be to this momentary chill on our overheated planet.

Which reminds me I need to cut some firewood too.

But around dusk with the stove fired I'll push the big dictionary aside, cuz I've got information -- and yes, sheer obstinate opinion too -- to share on our fondly evolving obsession with sliding through winter. Silvrettas with ice boots indeed; now you got me going...

One of the biggest blessings of this life is that climbing and skiing happen at opposite ends of the calendar. For something to truly be thankful about, how'se it for starters that we don't have to choose one obsession over the other?
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 20, 2008 - 05:02pm PT
hahahahaha!
Indeed.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 20, 2008 - 05:37pm PT
Gosh I love this forum so.
8į outside right now.
Have a nice 4-5 hour ski tour planned for tomorrow.

Party in Boulder tonight,
Get home & hopefully read some juicy extemporaneous ski-rambling-mountaineering stuff from Doug Robinson here...
perswig

climber
Dec 20, 2008 - 08:29pm PT
Tuas, silvrettas and kicker skins - NICE. My first year of Mt. Wash skiing was skinny Tuas, Voile 3pin/cables, and kickers.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 20, 2008 - 08:39pm PT
Put in a few miles with the geezers today on my old Epoke 900's
Butler was the objective, but geting up to Big Bear was a 2 hr traffic jam.

No peak, didn't get started till 11:00. Sticky new snow. I need to fix a screw on one ski binding and hot wax the tips and tails.


There was still a conga line going up as we returned. Don't know where all those people were going that late.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 20, 2008 - 09:46pm PT
They are still my weapon of choice when ever a steel edge isn't a necessity (more often than not). Push 'em too fast and the tips chatter badly though. A bit too much flex.

They just need a little maintenence. We haven't had good local snow in over two years, so both the body and the boards need a little tuning.

I think the Circumnavigation was on 1200's or some such. a bit wider ski. That article was still my inspiration to buy them. Have never been sorry.

I used to do a trip up and down San Antonio at least every year on them. I'm geting to the age where I don't think that's a good idea solo, and I've had a hard time finding people that will do it more than once.

A "goofy foot" mountain.
Wack

climber
Dazevue
Dec 20, 2008 - 11:44pm PT
Epoke 900's were a great ski if you buried the tips and tails in hot wax to cover the excess mica. Their one draw back was the bright yellow color that transfixed your stare after eating 'shrooms on a sunny day.
Doug Robinson

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Dec 21, 2008 - 04:21am PT
I come back and the thread has veered onto Epoke 900s. Feels right, like full circle to where I think bluering was in his memory, blasting around on his Mom's cross country skis, when he kicked off this discussion.

Weren't 900s a revelation when they came out? Smooth and tractable from that wood core, with bash-a-pine-tree tough glass coating. As soon as you had a couple of inches of fresh they came into their own. Who needs edges? Who needs width, when you can go arcing around in some of da kine. Like any of those shots Roy was posting.

Gotta love those Coloradans: "Oh yeah, six inches of fresh. Happens here all the time. No big." Just for that we all got together, sly-like on email, while you were out partying in Boulder and all. And we all decided to come crash all over your front room for as long as it takes us to thoroughly research and then publish the thread: Ski Gear (all sorts) Reconsidered, Hashed Out, and Dissed (Off Topic).

I too am curious about Rando Racing. Not rushing out to sign up, just curious. The dirty little secret about tele skiing is that its gear is all heavier than Randonee (AT). Tele has become lift-served, and thus another "industrial amusement," as C. L. Rawlins put it. The re-invention of... whatever. Thank goodness we're not addressing that here, although the mainline gear putting on weight by following the money limits our choices, when all we really want to do is "go into the mountains and ski in snow." (Chamberlain, in an old Moutain Gazette)

Which is why it felt like such a revelation to climb onto the simple BC ski rig I described upthread. Every piece of it -- skis, bindings, boots -- was lighter than even the lightest AT gear. It goes more places more easily and encourages lightheartedness and freedom.

I skied for the first of the season on Sunday. Just yo-yo at a lift area, but I happened to be sharing runs with Chris Fellows who was for a time head of the Demo Team for the Ski Instructors of America. You know, perfect form to teach the teachers. I was curious what he would have to say. Chris talked about "touch," feeling the snow through your skis, and responding.

That's one of the things I loved about soft leather boots on Epoke 900s, the intimate, caressing feeling in touch with the snow. Wherever our gear goes from that, I try to stay in touch. So I like the nordic stride because it keeps the ball of my foot on the ski, feeling. Feels like a powerful stance too, for commanding those boards to turn. Better than, say, on point above a hinge on the ski. I mean, c'mon, nobody voluntarily hikes in their ice climbing boots, right? Puts you out of touch with the trail.

My simple pin bindings weigh 4 to 8 ounces a pair, and they encourage the ball of my foot to be in touch with the ski. Many of the new bindings, AT and Tele, are four pounds! And the new Tele bindings have hinges and are the heaviest yet. After progressively hobbling us for years with cables and springs and stuff, now they're adding more weight and more expense to give back what personally I never lost, thank you very much, by just sticking to my simple, cheap pins.

Two things I think really have improved in modern gear are boot liners and ski design. The new flow-foam liners are simply cush. They're half the weight of the traditional liners, and I can kick and glide in them all day long, really moving out across country. And if skis can get torsionally stiffer yet longitudinally softer at the same time and without growing heavier, that makes them better tools for handling real alpine snow. Maneuverable short skis with the stability at speed of long skis -- that's magic. If they can turn easier and give me so much more control in the trees that I start bruising my shoulders and wearing a helmet, what's not to like?

End of rant, I'm going to sleep.

Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 21, 2008 - 10:38am PT
All righty then!
Temperatures have rocketed to 15į.
And within a couple of hours the ball of my foot will be pressing against the snow;
Feeling the crystals through a thin layer of wood and silently moving through the trees like a dart.
tom woods

Gym climber
Bishop, CA
Dec 21, 2008 - 12:22pm PT
Hey old dads out there, maybe you can help me. I've been skiing on a pair of hand me down Asolos for the past five years. Any idea what they are?

They're like a double mountaineering boot, leather shell, not very high, with an inner boot. All lace up, with p-cord these days.

I have those fischer s-bound skis that I use with these old boots. So far I have not seen a real reason to replace the boots. Though yesterday I bought a pair of beat up scarpa Tele boots to try out on some steeper terrain.

With the s-bounds (scales and shaped ski) I do carry skins for icy conditions. When its frozen hard, i find I really appreciate the stability of the skins, even downhill sometimes.

Tom

Doug Robinson

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Dec 21, 2008 - 12:55pm PT
Hey Tom,

Doesn't sound like you need much help to me -- you've got the system!

Are your boots grey or black? Grey would make them Glissade 400s, kinda rare in the Sierra, from the 80s. I still have a pair of the 350s, high top but single. Molded sole, no stitching. Still my XC track skiing boots. I have skied the Sierra High Route in them, beefed up with a carbon-fiber footbed, but honestly that's pushing it a bit.

If they're black and have a stitched welt, they're even older. I forget the name of that boot.

Sweet rig you've got there. Those skis can be pushed quite a ways. I think you'll like what you get out of them with your new (old) plastics. Bishop Bowl? Wahoo Gully?

Although straight up and back stuff like that is one place I might be tempted to climb onto the full-boat "downhill" tele skis.

Now that you mention skins, I gotta admit skinning on my fishscales last winter, humping a load up toward Whitney. I got a bit carried away upthread saying I hadn't used my skins in years. Tarbuster showed us his kicker skins, and I have a variety of sizes, all the way down to 14" x 1" wide. Sometimes a wrap of duct tape is all you need to keep the leading edge from peeling up. The thinner ones add glide (or maybe it's that they don't subtract as much).
tom woods

Gym climber
Bishop, CA
Dec 21, 2008 - 01:03pm PT
Yep, they're the black ones with the stitched welt. They've worked great so far. Somebody up thread said it right, get some gear and adjust to it.

I've got some skinny old skins, that the modern folks discarded for thicker skins. They work great. If it's so steep that I can't skin up without fat skins, I'd never suvive the downhill ride anyway.

Last winter, a freind passed some old AT gear my way. It was a blast. The boots were too small, which I found out on an over night trip to the palisades, but I was able to ski the resorts in the gear.

I'm currently looking for cheap AT boots that fit. Ebay seems good if your patient.

Tom
Doug Robinson

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Dec 21, 2008 - 01:45pm PT
"Get some gear and adjust to it." Perfect balance of humility for the modern dirtbag.

Fat skins have been around long enough now that I've gotten discards and split em lengthwise to make long skinnys. There was brief period in the early 80s when you could buy skinny skins for your nordic rig that were no wider than your thumb.

Looking for used, I like Wilderness Exchange in Berkeley, though their prices seemed to jump up last time I was in. Odd stuff shows up there. Like a to-drool-over pair of handmade Austrian leather XC hightops. But just a little too small. And like 15 pair of a mid-80s Research Dynamics ski that was the runaway favorite of a magazine ski gear test we did at Mammoth back then. So well damped in blasting through crud I swear there was a layer of rubber in there somewhere. I'm tempted to buy a pair just to add to the museum quiver.

And you likely know to check upstairs at Mammoth Mountaineering for their old demos and such. Occasional good deals. Right now they are advertising on the web the flow-foam inners that I love for Garmont Excursions for $50 instead of $200.

With those stitched-welt Asolos (Classic!) we always used to run a bead of clear silicone seal (the caulk-your-tub kind) in the welt before greasing up the leather for the year. Cut down on wet feet.
tom woods

Gym climber
Bishop, CA
Dec 21, 2008 - 01:59pm PT
I pulled a layer of that cualk off last year, realized what it was and re-applied. I may get out for a spin today.
Doug Robinson

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Dec 21, 2008 - 02:18pm PT
Breathe some of that alpine air for me. I'm becalmed on the coast today.
Maysho

climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 21, 2008 - 04:09pm PT
Its dumping pretty good here at Donner Summit right now.

Just got in from the first race of the year skating 10k, it got warm early this morning, wetting things up, and firming the track, so the skating conditions were good, cooler now, and about 5 new inches so far today.

Peter
aa-lex

climber
Livermore
Dec 21, 2008 - 08:32pm PT
GEEEEEEEEZ guys..............for a bunch of climbers and skiers I would think that some of you would try to help out the little guy! I understand the saving money, finding deals, etc. But at the expense of being able to get good help in finding what you want!! I usually sit these discussions out, but I figure it's about time to say something! Go shop at the little outdoor retailers like Sunrise Mountaineering, Marmot Mountain Works, Gear Exchange.....! If you don't help them and then buy online....they will go out of business, and then none of you can see any gear in person to try things on or get honest help from people who know and are interested in the same stuff you care about. Yeah you might pay a little extra, but you get that value back in service!! Plus you can rent at many of these places before you buy, so that when you do buy its the right product. Sorry just had to rant a little......
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 21, 2008 - 09:27pm PT
Just got in from a moderate tour,
Goatboy & I popped up to 10,700 feet here in Colorado.
Yankee doodle Lake, 11 miles round-trip, 1300 foot elevation gain:





Yankee Doodle Lake & the Continental Divide above Boulder:


Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 21, 2008 - 09:29pm PT
Goatboy out sliding around on the boards:




tom woods

Gym climber
Bishop, CA
Dec 21, 2008 - 09:34pm PT
Thanks to this thread I got all excited, blew off bouldering, and headed up to the hills.

There wasn't enough snow and most of the road had melted out. So we walked to Lake Sabrina. It was snowing, and fortunately we brought a few beers.

Tom
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 25, 2008 - 06:25pm PT
Got out for a short 5+ mile tour on the skinny skis today...





Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Dec 25, 2008 - 07:58pm PT
Hey Tarbaby - did you think about getting Crimpie out of her Parrot Palace in Boulder today - I know she HATES cold - but she did win a Patagucci Das Parka at Facelift after all!!!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 25, 2008 - 09:32pm PT
Nice job of gettin' er' done, Roy. Don't be shy posting to this thread with your tours in the Colorado outback.

me likee.....
Clu

Social climber
Alameda
Dec 26, 2008 - 01:57am PT
Hello Tom Woods. I believe the boots you have are Asolo Snowfields. Marmot in Berkeley had those in rentals and I Snowsealed hundreds. Often on the same day, it seamed. Asolo made 2 models of stitched welt boots, the Snowfield and the Extreme. The Extreme was a little bit higher in the cuff and more for descent, Snowfield for touring with a pack.I still have my Extremes. Both good for falling down. Kind of overmatched for the Karhu GTS of the day. From an old dad.
Dick_Lugar

Trad climber
Indiana (the other Mideast)
Dec 26, 2008 - 12:36pm PT
After enduring 60-80 MPH winds the past couple of days here in Casper, WY...4-8 inches of snow is now falling!! I can almost taste it. Haven't strapped on the X-skis in 2 yrs, but plan on doing so tomorrow...Shhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwiiiinnngg!

Edit: Sounds good Skip...no near future trips to your neck of the woods, but I do like E. Washington. It's a beautiful state. You guys are getting quite bit of snow of late aren't you? Keep sending it east to WY., we need more it. Have a good holiday!

Frank
tom woods

Gym climber
Bishop, CA
Dec 26, 2008 - 03:04pm PT
Thanks clu- Asolo snowfields. They work great to this day. What's the vintage on these guys?

I'll try out the plastics I just bought, maybe this weekend. It seems like you want two good dumpers, not just one, before you head into the back country.

Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 26, 2008 - 04:10pm PT
I had a pair of Asolo Snowfields, purchased in 1980 (matched to a 210mm Karhu XCD).
It really wasn't enough boot for me, a bit too low cut, I can see that boot working great with a lighter ski for pure touring.

Asolo also made a nice double boot for a number of years.
Not quite as high as the Extreme, but it had a wool fleece style liner and much better ankle support than the snowfield.

Boots like this do wear out; they get sort of flaccid and even for forward tracking, never mind turning, lose their support.

The leather boot I now use probably has some kind of plastic/stiffener smartly layered in the ankle area; hard to say for sure, but the instep buckle is key to limiting heel lift and likewise providing stability.
Clu

Social climber
Dec 26, 2008 - 04:56pm PT
Hehehe, remember the "sweet feel of leather"? No, I remember duct taping my upper heels prior to any tour. Upper heel blisters always were sooo much more painful the next day. And the next. Thank god for plastic.
cleo

Social climber
Berkeley, CA
Dec 26, 2008 - 08:55pm PT
good advice from all, depends on the terrain.

the cc package looks good if you want to tool around on closed forest roads, golf courses and sometimes groomed areas, not so good for steeper, rockier, or more variable (crusty, icy) snow conditions.
cleo

Social climber
Berkeley, CA
Dec 26, 2008 - 09:03pm PT
more...

here's what i use in vermont (those, and my MOM's old wooden skis from the 70s!) on backcounty trails, and at the resort. i love them... from the days when your skis are as tall as your outstretched arm (gym class in Vermont!)


I was using those, with wax (what I thought was just fine wax), and old bc ski boots, when I encountered a serious looking guy in the lodge at Badger Pass waxing his skis from a LARGE toolbox full of fancy wax. Turns out that was Maysho, and when he (and many, many others) blew by me both uphill AND downhill (wha?!? i'm in a tuck, how are you going so fast?), I finally understood the importance of "well-waxed skis". So Maysho, when are you going to tell us the secret of waxing?

Oh, and this is what I looked like... NOT serious:
cleo

Social climber
Berkeley, CA
Dec 26, 2008 - 09:10pm PT
and for the Yosemite Trans-Sierra (via little Yosemite Valley/Vogelsang) and other bc hut trips, I've used the Fischer Outtabounds (with scales) and soft 3-pin boots (on sale at Berkeley REI, bigtime). I had skins, I didn't use them, but I'm kinda stupid. I need to try kicker skins. That, and it was about 20 miles of hiking (out of 30) to Tuolumne in April.


I also have the Garmont Excursions, I LOVE them, for more tele e.g. up/down/turning touring. And I have a pair of lightweight Atomic skis, for short day (tele) trips, or tele at the resort. I don't have beefier boots than those, or beefier skis for the resort tele, but hey, I have a snowboard instead. Also on the wish list: some skate skis!
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 27, 2008 - 06:13pm PT
Today's Colorado Front Range touring report:
2 1/2 hours knocking around on the trails in the snow...



If you use pocket skins (shorties), you can go straight up this stuff, then kick and glide away from it:
(not that there's anything wrong with it.....)



Lots of wind out there today, but nice and cozy in the trees as always:

Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 27, 2008 - 06:30pm PT
I never mess with my short skins; they don't come off ever.
But I do assiduously wax my tips and tails, typically with a hard green wax for the cold conditions up high.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 27, 2008 - 06:34pm PT
When I first moved to Colorado in 1990,
I started out ski touring with a pair of slightly fat racing skis that had a stepped, waxless, fish scale kicker zone.
For boots I used one of the earlier skating shoes, which was like a modern "combi" boot.

This worked great for most of what I do now. (Light is Right, until you break something)
I just started adding a little more beef here and there to the boot, to the ski, until I topped out at what I think works best for the terrain.
("adding" meaning upgrading to beefier gear)
cleo

Social climber
Berkeley, CA
Dec 27, 2008 - 06:46pm PT
I'm jealous, Tarbuster. It's raining here.

Agreed that light is right. And, why Tele? Here are my reasons:

1 - I feel "trapped" in those stiff Alpine boots (even at the resort).

2 - I like the physical challenge (even at the resort).

3 - I'm not dropping into steep couloirs (if I were, I'd AT. And someday, I might, but I don't have AT gear, because... see below...)

4 - Tele is cheap. Snowboarding is cheaper. AT is expensive, and until I'm doing #3 and get a job, it ain't happening.
Edit: at least the way I do it... light gear, good sales... harder to find that stuff in AT.

5 - Tele skills -> XC skills on long touring trips (e.g. I take soft 3-pin boots w/ scaled Fischer Outtabounds, and I can eek out some turns in the rare occasion I'd like to... more comfy than AT boots (so my AT friends tell me, after 15-20 miles of flatish skiing).

Not that you shouldn't AT... in many cases, AT gear is superior... light, fast, more control. But it is not the best for all types of backcountry skiing.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 27, 2008 - 06:58pm PT
I'm in the market for replacing my old Merrel soft boots.

75mm. I'm not replacing bindings!


Skis will be Epoke 900's and Karhu XCD's

Choices seem to be Alpina 1550 or 2075 or Rossignol X11's

Mostly road / trail with occasional survival mode downhill when I get somehere I probably shouldn't be.

Any ideas?
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 27, 2008 - 07:03pm PT

Rossi BCX11.
When I have to replace what I have which is long time from now.
Not that I'd know; gotta go.
mike

climber
I have no clue
Dec 27, 2008 - 07:17pm PT
Fisher makes a short,fat,scaled,metal edged ski that has a ton of camber. Fun for cruising around the meadow acting like a kneedippingforestfairy. The camber is great because once it gets boring you can haul ass back to the car for a beer.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 28, 2008 - 01:50am PT
What he said.
Hey, this thread needs more pictures.

This is the sky above my house today, post ski tour, plus 3 beers:

cleo

Social climber
Berkeley, CA
Dec 28, 2008 - 12:18pm PT
yes more pics. name that rock (easy!)

Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 28, 2008 - 01:00pm PT
I feel like I should know this one...
But can't quite tag it.
Such a fair view of it too.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 28, 2008 - 06:48pm PT
I pick up my slicks in 2 days, matey's!!!!!

Now I just need to find a destination....Truckee?
CF

climber
Dec 28, 2008 - 07:06pm PT

Check out these home made bad boys
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 28, 2008 - 07:47pm PT
That's alright, Chris, very sweet.
10b4me

Ice climber
the sads
Dec 28, 2008 - 08:03pm PT
I need to replace my AT/Randonee skis, what do you recommend for a 220 pounder. I want an agile ski that turns on command and will handle various conditions.
Karhu Storm
tom woods

Gym climber
Bishop, CA
Dec 28, 2008 - 08:20pm PT
Home made skis? Badass- how do I do it? I'm okay at buildind things out of wood and my dad just bought a sawmill so were lookin for projects.

Any tips? steer me towards a website?

Tom
goatboy smellz

climber
dirty south
Dec 28, 2008 - 08:48pm PT
Hey bluey, what set up did you end up buying?

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 28, 2008 - 09:37pm PT
Next time I talk to my dad I'll ask about the homemades. I have a pair of hickory skis he made in high school wood shop, (in the late 20's)

It involves steam bending the tips and building a jig.



Oh, the rock is Fairview. Been down that road.

I'ver been up Tioga twice. Once with one guy who had an AT setup. The rest of us had much lighter sticks.

He was suffering most of the time for a few turns.

We were having fun most of the time and only suffered a few times when pushing it on the few turns.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 28, 2008 - 09:48pm PT
Hey Goatboy, I got this REI package deal. It'll prolly go to my wife who doesn't ski much, but it should be enough for her and enough for me to check out the newer rigs. I'll probably get better skis but the boots seem o.k., we'll see.

http://www.rei.com/product/package/48186046,48322614,48186189,48186247,48186258,48186260,48330050/xcountry_pkg1_08
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 30, 2008 - 05:25pm PT
All-important crosstraining method for cross-country skiing,
Stomping up steep hills in stiff mountain boots looking for scruffy boulders:




(our snow is getting hammered by vigorous warm winds right now)
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 30, 2008 - 05:30pm PT
That my boy, Roy, get 'er done...one way or another.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2009 - 08:35pm PT
Alright, so all my raucous non-climbing buddies like to do a "Winter-survival" trip to Yosemite Upper Pines in February. Tent-camping in the snow. I may go but I may also bring my 8 month old son who will require a heated tent-cabin. Are those still available with the recent rock falls? I heard they were closing some cabins.

Also, where is the best cross-country skiing? Can I ski to a crag? Do I want to? Maybe just ski the meadow and crag at Pat N' Jacks?

Thoughts?
klk

Trad climber
cali
Jan 12, 2009 - 09:57pm PT
Hey Blue-- Inspired by yr example (and to celebrate not getting laid off), we bought skis. First time in fifteen years.

But as you know, it hasn't been snowing. Went bouldering last weekend instead.

Nice scruffy boulders, Tar. Basically my last weekend in a nutshell.
CF

climber
Jan 12, 2009 - 10:09pm PT
The Glacier Point Road 1/12/08

Does not get any better
http://vimeo.com/2808713
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 12, 2009 - 10:12pm PT
that's nice, Chris, thanks!
Forest

Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
Jan 12, 2009 - 10:13pm PT
Man, I loved my Kneissl's
adam d

climber
CA
Jan 12, 2009 - 10:16pm PT
from another post on this quite short lived thread...

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=755443&msg=755443#msg755443
XC Skiing at Dome Rock on New Years Day

I was up with friends at a cabin in Ponderosa (just a couple miles from the Needles Road) and went on a mellow ski down the road to Dome Rock on New Years Day.

We SHOULD HAVE BEEN ROCK CLIMBING!


this sort of counts? Juggy top outs made it cruiser, even in floppy borrowed vintage xc ski "running shoes"



Happy New Year!


klk

Trad climber
cali
Feb 25, 2009 - 04:17pm PT
bump cuz this thread helped me to re-gear. found excursions on a deep sale and then got a deal on some alpina terrains. my first season in maybe 15 years. and my first ever in plastic.

first day out, i was rockin my old poles. they're bamboo, and they seem to have a bit less structural integrity than when i bought them back in the '70s. so i broke down and bought new ones.

man, plastic is weird-- on the one hand, it's way easier to turn because you don't have to drop so deep and use so much english. on the other hand, the slightest motion gets them off and running. as long as i concentrate, i'm fine. but if i hit an unexpected bit of ice or something, my body goes back to the default like i'm still in soccer shoes on my old rossignols.

i've got at least ten days in so far, but no pix. sorry
tom woods

Gym climber
Bishop, CA
Feb 25, 2009 - 05:24pm PT
It's been a weird year for snow here on the east side. With the rain storms, lower slopes are bare, while the high stuff looks really good.

I've only gone to the high end of the low so far and haven't found that great of stuff. Maybe this weekend I'll take my son up to Rock Creek, he's just over two months old, and has been skiing four times.

We have this stroller thing that has ski attachments, you hook it on to your waist and pull. It's not that bad really and seems safer then carrying him on my chest.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2009 - 07:39pm PT
So what's the closest place to the Bay Area to do some cross-country skiing? Anybody? Placerville? Hwy 395?

I suppose the Valley maybe too. Or on the way to the Valley?
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Dec 14, 2009 - 09:26pm PT
Didn't Hartouni have some snow in his backyard?
Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
Dec 14, 2009 - 11:11pm PT
This guy is building some pretty nice skis at the best price around. I am hoping to get a pair made for the season soon.
http://www.333skis.com/
Maysho

climber
Soda Springs, CA
Dec 14, 2009 - 11:13pm PT
Donner Summit is really nice, hwy 80 is a quick ride, except for friday evenings. Good spots at the summit itself, around the back of school rock, touring north is great, and many other places. Or, if you are coming from the south bay, check out touring near Bear Valley, or Crane Flat in Yosemite.

Have fun!

Peter

flyingkiwi1

Trad climber
Seattle WA
Dec 15, 2009 - 02:20am PT

This is not only the most valuable piece of touring gear I've ever bought, it is, without a doubt, dollar for dollar, the best purchase of any kind I have ever made. I hate to think how much I would weigh now if it weren't for the ability to get the family out of the house in the winter that the Chariot has afforded me!

Priceless.

Ian
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 15, 2009 - 01:28pm PT
Thanks, Peter.

That sled pic is pretty cool, Ian!
Jim Herrington

Mountain climber
New York, NY
Dec 15, 2009 - 01:37pm PT
Does anybody here XC ski and live in NYC? I'm carless since I moved here, it's semi-epic to get upstate and get any skiing done if you don't have wheels.
I got spoiled in Wisconsin, I could drive 15 minutes and ski a 10 mile very hilly loop.
I'll certainly help with gas... send me a message.
aguacaliente

climber
Dec 15, 2009 - 02:02pm PT
Jim, I'm on the wrong side of the country to help you, but have you seen this website for trailheads accessible by public transit from the city: http://www.nynjtc.org/content/you-dont-need-car
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 15, 2009 - 08:24pm PT
So Sugar Bowl and the other resort around Donner looks like a decent snow for x-country skiing. Is that accurate? 80 looks pretty clear too!

Anybody? I may pull a day trip there.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 15, 2009 - 09:11pm PT
Thanks, F.!
Fogarty

climber
BITD
Dec 15, 2009 - 09:53pm PT

Have to start them young.
xtrmecat

Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
Dec 15, 2009 - 10:39pm PT
Not x-country, but Rondo is close enough. Hey Kath, I got some good turns in already up here in the "Holy Mont". Looked for the ice to see if it is in condition, it is.(see blue at the bottom of photo)


Alpinglo shots are harder than one would think. P&S doesn't do it justice.


For your stoking pleasure, this is the view we had while taking in our late alpine lunch.


And the sunset 25 minutes later wasn't too bad either.


Get out there and do them turns. It aint the Sierra, but good enough for me.


Bob
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 6, 2010 - 08:58pm PT
A couple of questions;

What's the best place to winter/snow-camp near Donner? Indian Springs? Donner Lake?

Anybody wanna go this weekend? I'm pondering it and don't wanna go solo.

Does 80 require chains? 4WD only okay? My tires are balding so I may bring the chains I think.

My buddies are going down-hilling, but I wanna do some x-c skiing, just don't want a resort but want a partner for off-trail stuff.
Maysho

climber
Soda Springs, CA
Jan 6, 2010 - 09:11pm PT
Hey Blue,

Up to you but snow camping at Indian Springs or Donner Lake would be camping in hearing range of big traffic, bummer IMHO. Good snow camping would be to head north a bit from the true summit on old 40, head out behind School Rock, just far enough to be out of sight of Donner Ski Ranch.

You might consider Clair Tappaan Lodge at the Summit. Cheap, bunks and meals, plus you would probably find someone to tour with. http://www.sierraclub.org/outings/lodges/ctl/

OR if not, you could safely solo some ski tour routes right out of the back of the lodge. I will actually be there this weekend, but busy with a youth group. but happy to show you routes on a map. Aside from our small group, I know it is not a busy weekend there.

No chains required right now, and only 30% chance of snow in forecast friday/saturday. You should carry chains, but probably won't need em.

Peter



bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 6, 2010 - 09:19pm PT
Thanks, Peter, you're always helpful. I'll ponder that. I might actually do the solo thing.

I'll let you know if I'll be up there.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 6, 2010 - 10:32pm PT
Hey Peter, if I were to camp behind schoolhouse, where is a cool parking spot?

What do you think? I may just play it safe and camp at Indian Springs or something, I dunno. I'm kinda anti-social, I don't know if the lodge thing would work out for me....

HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jan 6, 2010 - 10:41pm PT
bluey
Can't make a better suggestion than Claire Tappan I'm afraid.
If you want to "dirtbag" it, plenty of spots along the old Donner Pass Highway east of the summit (below snowshed wall)
Can be VERY cold at night.

Solo skiing: Ski as far as you like up towards Castle Peak. If you've got heavier gear you can ascend/descend the SW Ridge of Castle Peak. Lighter gear, head down towards Peter Grubb Hut.
HMMMM.... if you want to carry it all in, you might be able to get a space at Peter Grubb Hut. It's an easy 4-5 miles from the car. Reservations from Sierra Club/Tappan Lodge.

The trip to Peter Grubb hut is enjoyable even in sh#t weather. It's heavily traveled so you're not going to get totally lost or in trouble. And you can turn back at any time.

The Peter Grubb/Castle Peak trail starts North of 80 at the Boreal Exit. There's Sno Park parking on the south side of 80. You can buy a permit from the lodge there.
miss.julienne

Trad climber
Capitola, California
Jan 15, 2010 - 02:08pm PT
Bump for my new found intrest in winter!!!
aguacaliente

climber
Nov 22, 2010 - 04:32am PT
QITNL,

read up at these pages, DAVE'S NORDIC BACKCOUNTRY SKIING PAGE
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/dirtbag.html


if you are thinking about skiing off set trails with a pack you may want the kind of touring gear Dave talks about rather than the very light regular XC ski gear. If you live near a place that rents XC skis (typically the light gear) go rent some and have fun for a day and see what's different.

XC gear is relatively inexpensive, at least compared to downhill, plus you can often find lightly used gear at craigslist, consignment places, even ebay sometimes. But you need to make sure you get boots that fit and then find skis/bindings that match, I think.

the telemarktips.com forum will talk about ski touring as well as alpine/downhill oriented telemarking.
Urmas

Social climber
Sierra Eastside
Nov 22, 2010 - 11:10am PT
The Gear Exchange, Mammoth Mountaineering Supply's consignment store in Bishop has a lot of good cross country gear for sale. Their store in Mammoth has some good waxless touring skis for demo. It would be worth trying it out before you buy.
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
SoCal
Nov 22, 2010 - 12:10pm PT
Snagged a pair of 195 cm alpine skiis at the thrift store for $4 yesterday.

Gonna slap my AT bindings on 'em. Skin up in the early season snow and thrash those old timer's good.
ryanb

climber
Seattle, WA
Nov 22, 2010 - 01:08pm PT
We got into backcountry skiing last year via xcd/rugged touring and I have some thoughts on gear. A tipical ski day for us last year consisted of trucking around on old logging roads and through alpine meadows seeking out relatively mellow glades and hills to make tele turns through and occasionally doing a bit of bushwhacking.

I'd suggest getting relatively (by nordic standards) fat shaped, metal edged waxless skis. It is nice to be able to makes some turns on the way down and have some float for breaking trail instead of having to stick the groomed trails and snow mobile tracks.

Sierra trading posts seems to have good deal on atomic rainears a few times a year (sign up for their email list for additional coupons) my fiance has these and likes them:
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/p/,1707K_Atomic-Rainier-Nordic-Touring-Skis-Posigrip-For-Men-and-Women.html

Some other good options would be some of the madshus or rossignols with similar designe or the discontinued karhu guides or 10th mountains (which are now the madshus.) I have the guides and like them except on ice... they have an issue with the edge bevel underfoot. Madshu's and rossignol's new models can be seen here:

http://www.rei.com/search?cat=4500288&cat=4501581&hist=cat,4500288:Metal-Edge+Touring^cat,4501581:Metal-Edge+Touring+Skis

We got voile 3-pin cabel bindings which are decent, reliable redundant (still work if the cables or the pins break) cheap and have kind of tour mode (unhook the cables and use just the pins). If buying again i would get the voile 3 pin hardwire cbr for the safety release as I jarred my knees a few times getting the skis caught in bushes or stream beds etc.

Get used two-three buckle plastic tele boots. Soft two buckle boots are perfect for rugged touring, we have the garmot velochess and scarpa t3s. You should be able to find a pair for less then one hundred as everyone into downhill is upgrading and they are warm and have enough oompf for mellow turning. Second ascent in seattle has a great selection (also of this sort of skis).

We eventually got skins as well as we started to run across steeper terrain... again sierra trading post has some great deals if you sign up for the coupons.

This year we are getting avi gear/education and looking at getting AT stuff for venturing out onto the ridge lines and summits etc.

http://www.turns-all-year.com/
http://www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/index.php

Are decent sites with a backcountry touring contingent and good classified adds for gear.
PhilG

Trad climber
The Circuit, Tonasket WA
Nov 22, 2010 - 01:53pm PT
Here's a picture to support our shared love of Cross Country Skiing


There's even good skiing above Tonasket!
Maysho

climber
Soda Springs, CA
Nov 22, 2010 - 02:26pm PT
Sure Tele is graceful, elegant, and fun.

To each their own, but for my taste, I like to get fit, go light, and feel the sublime flow of flying up and down on the snowy landscape, sometimes on the groomed,


sometimes way way back there! (approaching Lamark Col - Evolution solo skate)


4 plus feet on the ground at my house, skiing is here!! However you want to slide -- just do it!

Peter
Maysho

climber
Soda Springs, CA
Nov 22, 2010 - 02:52pm PT
I agree about the Dana Couloir! On skate skis I would contour around the backside.

I had a heads up thrilling time on that couloir on some old Fischer GT's and leather boots, a few days later someone showed me that my skis were bent!

Would be nice to do it again on the modern stuff.

Come back to Tahoe for a visit Craig! Plenty of room at my place on Donner Summit.

Cheers,

Peter

Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Nov 22, 2010 - 08:29pm PT
Peter, when I lived in Vail I got into a bunch of backcountry/ski mountaineering, kinda stuff on skate skis. it is is amazing what you can do with the right hardpack/crust; 13k' peaks 'n stuff.

Another, final frontier!
R.B.

Big Wall climber
Land of the Lahar
Nov 22, 2010 - 09:04pm PT
I x-c skied last night and will tonight at about sea level here in WA. Gotta love arctic air!
corniss chopper

Mountain climber
san jose, ca
Nov 22, 2010 - 11:28pm PT
Kirkwood gets 125 inches of snow. More on the way--

Sierra resorts abandon old plans and are just opening!

its the Big White Dump!

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ski/detail?entry_id=77547
Robes

Trad climber
Truckee CA
Nov 23, 2010 - 02:28am PT
Hi,

Judging by the fact that you are from Santa Clara, I'm Guessing that you will be doing a fair amount of skiing in the Tahoe region as it is the closest area with decent cross country near you.

Having grown up as a serious nordic skier in Truckee (and i must say that nordic is term used by the local XC skiers) I would recommend a wider ski with fishscales. I don think that metal edges will be needed for the type of terrain that you are describing, but you may want them if you decide to tackle anything too steep.

The main thing to consider, if you will be taking on any hills of considerable size are the boots. Traditional striding boots are actually quite flimsy these days and are most suited for groomed track skiing which is not what your after, judging by your post. You should ideally be looking for a boot that has a decent amount of flex, but still has the support that you need for un-groomed downhill descents. I would suggest checking out what they call a "combi" boot (its built for both skating and striding XC skiing) or look into a boot design more suited for backcountry skiing if you'll be taking on more technical downhills (i've used the old "3 pin" bindings for a bunch of gnarly descents).

Head to Paco's(in the safeway parking lot) in Truckee and tell them what kind of terrain you are hoping to ski and they can help you out for sure. If they don't have what you are looking for check out The Backcountry(also in truckee by the 7-11) and they'll the more intense back country stuff. Both great local shops. Both totally knowledgeable and helpful.

If you have anymore questions feel free to PM me.
\Good :Luck,

Rob
bergbryce

Mountain climber
Oakland
Nov 23, 2010 - 02:53am PT
OMG I miss skate skiing so much.
Used to live in Anchorage where I'd get a good mid week fix a couple nights a week on the lighted trails. Access to nordic skiing was so fantastic there, I kind of took it for granted.
Skating is wicked fun and will rip you into the best cardio shape of your life. Classic can too but requires more patience, skill and is considerably more difficult to learn to do well, imho.

These days there is a lot of XCD gear on the market which is turning light touring gear into something you can make turns on.

My favorite xc ski website is Tim Kelley's crust skiing website...
http://crust.outlookalaska.com/

check out the trip reports (links are near the top of the page). they come with great photos and hilarious captions!!

Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Nov 23, 2010 - 05:09am PT
i saw kelly slater at alpine nocking down the cornice with the 90mm howdyduty, and somebody dished him, can you believe somebody would disrespect mr slater?
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jan 12, 2011 - 12:35am PT
Bumpity bump
Urmas

Social climber
Sierra Eastside
Jan 12, 2011 - 02:13pm PT
Best place to rent gear: Mammoth Mountaineering Supply. Go to mammothgear.com and check out their website.
Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Jan 12, 2011 - 02:31pm PT
Who held the targets?
reddirt

climber
PNW
Nov 26, 2011 - 12:01am PT
X-country kicks ass because you can just pull off a road and take off, no chair lifts, no 'boarders'...

don't knock the boarders, join 'em

Cross Country Snowboarding http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w7sVSMbjyM
steve shea

climber
Nov 26, 2011 - 11:12am PT
I still have skooch leg from last year! I gotta learn to change it up.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 26, 2011 - 11:19am PT
Yeah, boi!!!

My son's already hitting me up for some snow-camping. Hey does Lover's Leap campground close in winter??
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2011 - 01:36am PT
I'm hitting it soon....

What's up with the huge poles now. Everyone uses oversized poles???
Sierra Ledge Rat

Social climber
Retired to Appalachia
Dec 29, 2011 - 05:32am PT
Gay cross country fitness singles

http://www.fitness-singles.com/
mouse from merced

Trad climber
merced, california
May 10, 2012 - 05:49pm PT
It's Thursday and the Tioga Road has opened. We can finally lose that topic like the recent feeble snow-pack.

I think this thread's just been hibernating. It's probably because I just now am concluding a re-read of Doug Robinson's worthwhile observations.

Can I get a bump from the grump who is wishing it was October?

---

Here's a Quasi Official notification about the Tioga Road, from today's Sierra Star (www.sierrastar.com):


Tioga Road now open in Yosemite

Tioga Road...opened Monday, May 7.

Vault toilets are available in several locations along the road. However, due to damage sustained to two transmission lines, the Tuolumne Meadows area will be without electrical power and visitor services until repairs can be made.

Due to light snowpack [sic] this past winter (approximately 50% of normal), the Tioga Road was able to be cleared of snow early...

All campgrounds along Tioga Road are closed. All commercial services, including the gas station, store, and village grill, also closed.

mouse from merced

Trad climber
merced, california
May 10, 2012 - 06:05pm PT
I don't like to understate what may become a grave situation this summer, but the lack of snow might mean the Meadows just might not erode as fast as they have in the past. conservation. of. energy. means. nothing. without. results. t*r. give. earth. rest. no. no touring. only running water and running from hordes of bloodthirsty mosquitoes, I would think.

Which brings me to the whole point of this afternoon's ramble in the Meadows, several points, really, as I think on it more. Rambling and rumbling brings out the creative side in Muirian personalities like moi and toi, (if I may?).

Not long back, Jeff Mathis was much younger. He's always been a great dancer. In 1970, he was considered to be the tenth-best cross-country skier in the Park. I don't know whose rating system applied, but this was news to me when I heard it from the Muskrat's very lips, from the mouth of the Horse Ridge guy himself, by fiat issued by the quondam meister of Ostrander Hut and the TM structure provided by the NPS for ski tourists.

JM (the F stands for Freeman) First-class scout, body/fender expert, telephone lineman and glib deliverer of lines to lines of lasses with lovely...well, he could certainly dance. He learned cross-country skiing, ladies, in 1970, before it was refined and mass-marketed as ski-touring (hyphen preferred). Technically, Nordic ski-touring, I guess, though it's constantly shortened to Nordic touring, and then there's the texter's nightmare, is it xc or x-c? S[ell-chek says the latter, so take your pick.

And you thought I was serious about Nordic sport? I love the bikini teams from oslo, stockholm, helsinki, and reekyavick. That's Nordic. Snow gets kinda boring. I'm not so much a mountain person as a rock mouse.

In 1971's January or February JM was invited to be the third party on a trans-Sierra trip with Donna Pritchard and Wayne Merry's wife, Cindy. He was number ten, but available and could pay his way. He had come to terms with an old pair of surplus GI slats. I couldn't tell you definitely the kind, but the cables were good ones. His main problem was one ski broke somewhere. I mean on the route, yeah, but the break was ahead of the binding, and not much was broken off, but still...bummer. I believe "be prepared" sunk in during the days we spent in Scouting, because JM brought a spare tip!

I love hearing of someone's foresight. Jeff's not absolutely famous for planning back when the day was earlier and he was younger not by much but rich in klister and blind luck. But he skated on that one.

He was even more fortunate in his financial dealings. Jeff Mathis was the sole proprietor of the now-long-defunct Tuolumne Sporting Goods, est. 1970 or 1971, we can't tell. (He had no catalogs, Guido.)

All Muskrat had to do was fork out some filing fees and arrange for paying the Board of Equalization. He only retailed to himself, which was the main money-saving idea, and to a select clientele. He had his "warehouse" in his rented Degnan's dorm room. I provided the transport for the bulk of his wares, which were purchased at wholesale from EMS. We hauled the goodies in the DORF van, which served as its break-in road trip.

We came back through Ventura, stopping to visit with the guys in the Yard (none of whom we actually knew), and we drove up Hwy 1. On the return, we picked up a hitcher, who later got hired as a checker at the Village Market. Name forgotten. We over-nighted with Brother Don, my former temporary roommate. He was a really righteous guy, who just happened to have an excellent coke connect, he said, having understood that I had come into some insurance benefits from having my hand chewed on by a peach-pitting machine. So he gets these extravagant lines out, not cheap, either. And Mfathis sneefzes. Shag carpet. Saved from certain debauchery. But there was Schlitz, and it was karmic pay-back for the blue-balls I gave JM in high school anyway. Best friends don't let best friends go over trifles like swollen genitalia or wasted drugs. Or other infringements. We all worthy.

In Berkeley, we stopped in at the North Face, picked up another couple of travelers, stopped by my old wannabe alma mater, St. Mary's College, and finally got to the Valley by midnight. What a long-ass day! But we had energy and Jeff had new Bonnas! And several hundreds of dollars worth of other wintry gear. One of the riders from Berkeley happened to drop me on a top-rope some hundred feet. Ya do a fella a favor...

I did not ski that winter. Jeff remained in the dorms, later on finding a gig with the trail crews. I took the high road to education and tried to resume my collapsing college career. No go. Kingsley's riotous geology field trip to Yosemite caused me to throw in with the dirtbags once more, not the doctors. It is never a really tough decision. It is what it is.

The next winter was very different.

I had been working at the Mtn. Shop that summer of '71, and gotten hitched. I was kept on to work the fall/winter. We lived in the Village at Tecoyah dorm. Jeff had got his UI and fallen in with a lovely lady, Georgia, aka Tirebiter, much too refined for the guy she called "just another rock and roll kid from Merced." TB was a maid, and kept a dorm room, as always. But they spent their time across the Valley, over the road at the base of Sentinel, in their cave. It came equipped with an air-freshener called AirWick. The tailed, black variety. He was fit company for a dirtbag trail crew unemployed Flame. So was Georgia. She was one of many many ladies Jeff danced with, but there was only one AirWick.

Jeff developed his skiing and I began going out with him, though I could have had pros give me lessons, it's how Jeff and I rolled. He got me involved in climbing, taught me some, climbed with me, then we went out with others and traded new technique. The same sort of thing happened with ski-touring. He got me interested, though I had a professional obligation to learn what I needed to know for the shop. I skied with him in the Valley lots, then we did the Chinquapin trail ( a must for all beginners on skinny skis), and finally Dewey or Taft Point. And Crane Flat. This is where they generally liked to hold lessons for YMS clients.

The YMS nordic program started that winter, as well. Several Olympians, Ned Gilette (track racer), Jim Speck (Nordic combined) for the USA, and Trine Bech (I tend to confuse it with Speck, so it might be Beck, but he's yet another Nordician) from Norway's team. They were like Bridwell or Robbins to me and others. The shop itself, it was first left in the Village, then moved to the Lodge Gift Shop. Not workable. Back to the Village and the friendly mice in the closet.

It was great experience to pick up mounting and basing and turning tips from such experts. What I saw in them thatsets them apart from the masses is their ability to remain focused on their goals. You've all seen the training climbers go through for their own ends. The Olympic athletes are some of the most dedicated on earth. It is interesting to speculate on just when climbing is going Olympic.

Ding-dong the snow is gone. Fairview's there, and here's the throng.

Enjoy.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 10, 2012 - 06:11pm PT
Hey bluering, take the r out of nordic and add a k and you'll fit right in.
Just kidding.....I think.
Charlie D.

Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
May 10, 2012 - 06:15pm PT
Love to ski tour on Echo, our beasts like it too:
mouse from merced

Trad climber
merced, california
May 10, 2012 - 08:33pm PT
Girl, you revived me!

I was a Sacto Scout who spent two summers at the old Scout Camp on Uppaweckoho Wake! It wasn't so cold as in the pics (marzelous, davvling shots--for basically boring frozen water), but I earned my Mile Swim badge, awarded more for enduring the cold water than for completing the length. Those were the summers of Gagarin, as I recalled, 1961 an 1960.

In the seventies I drove my poor old neglected climbing widow [ :) if you're reading this, sweet-meat] to Echo and we skied over to the old camp and...camped. In a Tuolumne Tent, TNF's coziest. The best part of waking up was to find the wind, which had blown us over the lake, in effortless blind gliding bliss, the afternoon before, had now shifted in the opposite direction. We wind-sailed using our mountain parkas! Both ways. Magic weather gods, you rule...

I just read Doug Robinson, and if you can find him, another skier of immense knowledge and tale-telling ability is Sir Arnold Lunn, and he has dozens of titles. The one I liked and remember best is (not surprisingly) Mountains of Memory. Books get you through times of no snow better than...

I refuse to issue any gear recommendations. I no longer ski myself, and have no idea what's on offer. Just start with three-pin bindings and light equipment. I know there is no better satisfaction than learning to get from one spot to another over the snow. It leads to much much more. Be serious and at least read about waxing. It's not an art, it's a science guided by a playful muse who was raised by a friend of Donini's in a F N VAN down by the SWAMP, which ends in P and that stands for plenty.

Ski-touring is such a gentle pastime. Welcome to the fold.

Post this Reply!

I'm so delighted you enjoyed Echo, t*r. It's one of my best skiing memories.

ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
May 10, 2012 - 09:01pm PT
skiing groomed nordic is way homo
mouse from merced

Trad climber
merced, california
May 10, 2012 - 09:11pm PT
Nope, we have not met, I'm pretty sure. I would certainly benefit from our acquaintance, I feel, simply because you have in your writing expressed what lies in your nature. I don't mean to be forward. That usually puts one in an awkward situation, like being in the middle of a kick-turn when the crust breaks.

edit: In my past I was a sales person whose job deeply involved working with largely unfamiliar folks so that I could find the types of books they enjoyed, or to find what kind of trail they would generally hike, and so I learned to try to put people at ease. If I sound overly-familiar, worry. Otherwise, it's just me being that guy selling books n' boots. If I have not met your own good self, I have talked with dozens of your peers.

DonC

climber
CA
Nov 27, 2018 - 08:01pm PT
Moved to Bishop so have ready access to snow for the first time in many years. I used to be a pretty decent telemark and AT skier, but that was many years ago. I'm looking to get back on skis, but just leisurely skiing in the meadows, up a closed road, etc. Probably a mix of groomed trails and easy off trail.

I'm just starting to look at equipment and really don't have a clue where to start - so many options these days. What would be a good set-up for my plans?
Nick Danger

Ice climber
Arvada, CO
Nov 28, 2018 - 06:15am PT
At the risk of being exposed as the luddite I truly am, I find for ski touring, as apposed to back-country telemarking, that an old-fashion pair of wood skis is the best. Once you get that initial coat of pine tar correctly applied they take and keep wax very well. Also, a well waxed pair of wooden skis will out-perform any of the modern plastic skis, and especially outperform the modern waxless skis. Waxed correctly for the temperature and conditions they will both out-climb and out-glide the modern plastic stuff.

I am very much looking forward to skiing in my new place of residence, the Jemez Mountains and the southern Sangre de Cristo Mountains of northern New Mexico. So far the snowpack is forming up nicely.
cheers
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Nov 28, 2018 - 06:22am PT
It wasn't that long ago that wooden skis were all you could buy..
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Nov 28, 2018 - 06:44am PT
FYI

In its initial season (1971 winter), the YMS and its Mountain Shop was stocked with Asnes Tur-Langrenn wood skis for sale and rental, with cane poles.

We had only a few sets of Trak waxless skis that winter.

Inside of three years the emphasis swung to Fischers and other brands of non-wood skis.


Nick Danger

Ice climber
Arvada, CO
Nov 28, 2018 - 06:54am PT
Mouse, That is exactly how I remember it too. I always had both types in my quiver of skis (still do), but for just touring I have always found wooden skis to be the most satisfying. That being said, if a guy is gonna do solo traverse of some back country mountain range, modern plastic skis with skins are the demon tweak because (1) they don't break, (2) they deal with wind crust, ice conditions better. I no longer do that sort of skiing, more due to physical conditioning and accumulated damage than by actual choice, as I always loved those types of back country adventures.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 28, 2018 - 10:22am PT
It wasn't that long ago that wooden skis were all you could buy..

RJ, get worked up for senile dementia, braj!
Or do ya just still have a boner for yer Bonnas?
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Nov 28, 2018 - 11:02am PT
I used to wax XC skis but with temperature swings and warmth these days I switched to the the scales about 10 yrs ago as wax wasn't cutting it anymore. With that in mind, I'd skip wood unless you live up high, really high.

Also, are you getting metal edged, non-metal or both types of skis? It is kinda nice to have both and considering the price and life of XC skis; I'd say get both!
Bargainhunter

climber
Nov 28, 2018 - 02:14pm PT
Getting it done fast and light in Alaska:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWrsNQ2dE1o
Charlie D.

Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
Nov 28, 2018 - 02:20pm PT
^^^ha! Ripping it on skinny skis!!!
DonC

climber
CA
Nov 28, 2018 - 02:55pm PT
great video!
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Nov 28, 2018 - 03:33pm PT
^^^^ +10, Eric Packer!
hobo_dan

Social climber
Minnesota
Nov 28, 2018 - 06:02pm PT
I ski alot-knocked off 1,000 miles last winter and 115 days on trail. So far this year we're on day 12- mostly rock skiing. somewhere around 100 km.
I'm stoked with the new gear- I mostly skate up on the Birkebeiner trail and the new skis have great spring and better glide. So much fun!
I'm trying the new skin skis for waxless classic skiing and I'm liking them quite a bit for temps around freezing or warmer. Best sport ever! On a good day, it makes me want to live forever.
Charlie D.

Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
Nov 28, 2018 - 06:11pm PT
On a good day, it makes me want to live forever.

Amen brother, thatís the spirit.
hobo_dan

Social climber
Minnesota
Nov 28, 2018 - 06:31pm PT
I wax up when it's 25 F or colder--generally when I have dry snow. when it gets around 30 and up waxing becomes pretty challenging so I have a quiver of no-waxers that I get on. This is on tracked trail and not out bushwhacking- the waxless gear has been more reliable for me. I have had great days skiing klister but mostly those were ice days. If you can get out when they have have a demo day try out a pair skin-tecs. You can really bust off some great kick and still get excellent glide.
My goal for this winter is to ski my age--I'd like to do a 60 km day.
ec

climber
ca
Nov 28, 2018 - 06:36pm PT
Also, a well waxed pair of wooden skis will out-perform any of the modern plastic skis, and especially outperform the modern waxless skis. Waxed correctly for the temperature and conditions they will both out-climb and out-glide the modern plastic stuff.

Yeah...Luddite.

Did you actually try this given example side by side with the equipment during the same conditions?

Probably not...

Anyway, if thatís what you prefer, go for it. However, donít fill our heads with BS.

Thx - ec
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Nov 28, 2018 - 06:39pm PT
Cross country? Which country are you talking about crossing?

Crossing this kind of country you'll want randonee skis, and skins...

hobo_dan

Social climber
Minnesota
Nov 28, 2018 - 06:58pm PT
Ghost that looks burly! I'm more into a trail with a lot of very fit women crushing it. Still, skiing is the best thing!
hobo_dan

Social climber
Minnesota
Nov 28, 2018 - 07:04pm PT
I've got a collection of wood skis-I quit the habit after about 30 pair. I haven't skied wood since we got our ass kicked by the school on the hill in 1976. My first year I had a sweeeeet pair of Peltonen racers. I broke those skis 4 X's that winter. I had to find the pieces and epoxy them back together so I could keep chasing it the next day. The wood ski is one of the really beautiful things ever made, but for performance? Weight? And Strength? I'm stepping into my Fischer's.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Nov 29, 2018 - 07:43am PT
Well Ghostly Gaiter man...

I'd call what you appear to be doing 'Touring', judging by the pack(s) you have on.
What does gaiter rhyme with?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Dec 2, 2018 - 05:53pm PT
I feel your pain Andy...The LA gapers drive up here for one day , trash the groomed nordic trails then race back to Gaperville... big greedy Alterra condones this as long as the walking gapers stay off the downhill slopes...Mammoth thinks it's Aspen but they're really Snow Summit...
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Dec 2, 2018 - 09:49pm PT
Snowshoes are nothing compared to the fat wheel bikes.
I'm kind of a live and let live multi use fella, but after half a dozen bikes mash down a giant Anaconda track, it's like trying to ski a summertime singletrack dirt groove.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 3, 2018 - 04:00am PT
worst thing about warm weather wax is trying to scrape it off when it gets cold again. I tried to do a big loop a few days ago. It started out ok with the trail broken but then I got into unbroken trail and lots of downed trees from the storm. There was one big snow snake out there that got me on a downhill with funky snow cat tracks none of the trail markers were in the fields and some seemed to be missing from key trail junctions. Its not my home turf so I ended up getting a bit turned arround got stuck in some pretty thick woods and a creek bottom but eventually found the van again :)
Maysho

climber
Soda Springs, CA
Dec 6, 2018 - 06:43am PT
Cool Video! I'm a big fan of APU Racers!

A small cadre of us crust cruise in the Sierra every spring after a good winter. Evolution Loop is one spectacular route here is an old thread with that story: http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/859199/Evolution-Skate-Ski-Alpinism-TR. Echo Lakes area is a nice place to do it, Hwy 50 up to Aloha and back, not too committing, not too steep.

New Skin skis are pretty great for high-performance waxless for classic groomed track. I don't own any yet, as a racer I remain a "student" of waxing. Heading out right now on Royal Gorge tracks. Adjacent to my home, 22f, still fresh snow, easy extra blue.

Sierra snowpack is off to a great start, get out there!

Peter
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 6, 2018 - 07:28am PT
Will Elon Musk take wax or waxless boards to Mars?
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Dec 6, 2018 - 07:40am PT
Man, how did I miss the skate ski alpinism?!?! Thanks for the bump of it Maysho!

Cross country/Nordic skiing is pretty damn coo!

Crust cruising is to Nordic like Powder(I mean light cold smoke) is to downhill skiing.

I've been looking for Nordic zones like those in the alpinism thread and I might just need to look a little harder and farther away...

For now, I'll take the C'Roy that the 'bilers maintain throughout the season. They groom hundreds of miles within 1.5hr drive and I hardly ever see another Nordic skier on it. If I start in the dark, I seem to get about 2-3 hrs of alone time before the 'bilers show up and they are always friendly and slow down. I donate to the 'bilers instead of the local snow-roadie club, they do more and are hella nice folks!

One morning a couple years ago....
Happy Cowboy

Social climber
Boz MT
Dec 6, 2018 - 08:39am PT
Great thread and interesting perspectives, thanks all. I've skied for many years and instructed by Sven Wick in Steamboat mid sixties. He preached learning on a pine-tarred base. Mid-week brought out the colored Rex's, or the Rabbit J dry/wet 2 wax on the pine tarred base.

Loved the look and feel of my wood skis but they broke far too easily in the Wasatch range which was home. We pushed the limits of our waxed 3-pin Bonna 2 and 2400's, and subsequent use of plastic push on tips. Pause for memories


I still XC all the time, particularly up Hyalite and wood still rules, but generally limited to it's core. I love my Madshus as they have wood torsion box and SIDECUT, something some classic xc skis don't.

Like Maysho, I'm a student of wax...but at 65 I've one rule, never wax softer than extra blue, ever, well mabey that white blue/purple stuff lightly. I grab my waxless setup (like hobo) when near freezing. Again I've always lived in the intermountain west with dry, cold snow predominant. Purple wax ices like crazy in shadows on a warm day and I hate the chemicals to remove fully.


I've taken interest in the Skin-tec also though not tried. My wife of many years tells me 'you wouldn't like it, I've never known anyone that complains about poor glide than you"...shes right WAX rules!
Here in Boz this am it's hovering around zero, hoping the sun warms. It could be conditions for the Minnesota Special Turquoise pictured on left!!!full tube to boot.
Todd Eastman

Social climber
Putney, VT
Dec 6, 2018 - 11:15am PT
Klister covered in Craftsbury this weekend, unless skating on slow cold snow floats yer boat.

Demo Saturday and Sunday, if yer in the hood, stop by and try some new skis.
Happy Cowboy

Social climber
Boz MT
Dec 6, 2018 - 02:54pm PT
^^^^^I prefer the "pure ice" when stranded on rock rather the xc hills.

I admit I occasionally love klister. Spring crusin Yellowstone crust is fun. and yes the snow in SW Montana is slow and cold, local hills help that.


Todd, I've a couple friends in Putney, Scott Wade and Kyle Tyler.
Todd Eastman

Social climber
Putney, VT
Dec 6, 2018 - 03:17pm PT
We had Scott over for dinner the other night, Kyle's working at Bridger Bowl...
Happy Cowboy

Social climber
Boz MT
Dec 6, 2018 - 03:34pm PT
crazy about Scott, Todd. I know your name, we might've met. I thought Kyle was headed back east, guess he got the job he was hoping for. I know he misses it. Ask Scott @ the cold dry sh#t, he says he's back out in March. Best Donnie Black
clarkolator

climber
Dec 6, 2018 - 04:57pm PT
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Dec 6, 2018 - 05:54pm PT
I always thought that cross country skiing was not something that people liked to do. I always thought it was a necessary means to an end - like getting to a peak.

Just kidding.

I mean to say, "...like getting to a hot spring."
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 6, 2018 - 05:57pm PT
In Norway it was a means towards blowing up Nazis.
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Dec 6, 2018 - 07:05pm PT


Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Dec 6, 2018 - 07:40pm PT
Older stuff
I used to love skating on groomed tracks



Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Dec 6, 2018 - 08:24pm PT
Crossing a different kind of country

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Dec 6, 2018 - 10:02pm PT
Good exercise...go to the right places and you might see a Wolverine.
Happy Cowboy

Social climber
Boz MT
Dec 7, 2018 - 07:34am PT
XC's do open the door to exercise in great country.

Like Ghost and SLR I've enjoyed them in mountainous locations. On the Ruth we had them xtra at our upper west fork climbing camp for fun nearby excursions.



Happy Cowboy

Social climber
Boz MT
Dec 8, 2018 - 05:34am PT
Sorry to offend tt^^^ thanks for mentioning the other threads.
What does define XC skiing? Should this thread be limited to Nordic resorts? Groom only...
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Dec 8, 2018 - 06:03am PT
maybe too much pale ale???

I feel that Nordic skiing is one of the best training tools for ice climbing. I absolutely love it. I think I could get in pretty decent shape if I could di it all summer....
Jay S

Mountain climber
Silver Gate, Mt
Dec 8, 2018 - 06:26am PT
Happy Cowboy

Social climber
Boz MT
Dec 8, 2018 - 06:37am PT
Trad, I believe youíd enjoy Scepter, perhaps both ale and climb. Early this am I thought of you when on Craigslist(Bozeman) I saw a listing for a 5Ē lifted Astro van awd. Youíd love the pics and I again am guilty of cross pollination.

For XC Hyalite now has its trail network rolled, 30 miles of it. The trails are multi-use and best for classic. Yesterday was cold, -6 then 16 on return. Warmer today.
hobo_dan

Social climber
Minnesota
Dec 10, 2018 - 08:59am PT
Day 22 so far this winter-Snow is a bit thin but I'm working through it with my old River Pigs. I took one vicious digger when I stopped dead on a rock. i don't bounce as well as I used to.
Still, it's pretty fun to chase something.
Happy Cowboy

Social climber
Boz MT
Dec 11, 2018 - 06:20am PT
Nick Danger

Ice climber
Arvada, CO
Dec 11, 2018 - 06:46am PT
A bunch of years ago I went telemark skiing at a downhill resort in the Hemsedahl Valley in Norway. We were there to climb ice (fabulous ice, by the way) but took a day off to ski when it snowed a foot over night. My climbing partner and I were the only folks on the mountain that were telemarking, which I found most amusing since we were skiing where the technique had been invented. It was just a fabulous day powder skiing in the trees with our Norwegian hosts. We did a fair amount of gratuitous cross country skiing while there. The locals had laid down groomed trails between villages, which were 10 to 20 km apart and everybody skied between towns. It was just basic transportation. I loved seeing the grandmothers with their little sleds skiing home with the groceries.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Dec 11, 2018 - 06:52am PT
I smoked my first pine-tar soaked doobie with Jack Rabbit Johansen way back in the 60's...Gave me a gud kick and glide
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 21, 2019 - 02:09pm PT
I never knew that there was a wax colder than green but last year in the midst of our polar vortex I found one on amazon. By the time it arrived the temps had warmed up to extra blue. Today was a solid -7f and windy so I gave it a try. I have hundreds of miles of snowmobile trails right out my front door.
Todd Eastman

Social climber
Putney, VT
Jan 21, 2019 - 03:48pm PT
XC Skiing... not a bad way to spend time outdoors!!!
TwistedCrank

climber
Released into general population, Idaho
Jan 21, 2019 - 05:10pm PT
Just bought some waxless edged skis for some local kick n glide.

I donít miss the Swix Black at all.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Jan 21, 2019 - 05:42pm PT
XC is pretty bitchen in both classic and skate and compliments DH skiing pretty well. Ski DH one day and XC the next; I've been lucky this year and have had that option, going on something like day 11 of that sequence. No XC skiing yet for me in the BC yet this year with spooky conditions and whatnot, I'm a scardy cat like that!

Glad y'all are digging the cold wax conditions!
Maysho

climber
Soda Springs, CA
Jan 21, 2019 - 06:52pm PT
This thread needs a photo! A real skating with power and grace-showing what-its-about kind of shot.

The late Mark Nadell captured this from a Bear Valley race of a few years back.

When you get fit for this incredible sport, there is no better feeling than flying over snow powered by yourself, up hill and down.

Peace,

Peter

PS. Hey Todd Eastman - brother in Nordic Enthusiasm! 9 feet on the ground here at Royal Gorge! How's is it back East? Coming to Boulder Mountain Tour? Best.
Todd Eastman

Social climber
Putney, VT
Jan 21, 2019 - 07:26pm PT
Peter, I'll be going to Winthrop for the marathon next weekend with ski time before and after. I'll pass my regards onto the Methow crew for you.

East has been good so far this winter. A bit chilly right now but the fresh snow has made New England look perfect!

Have fun at the BMT!
hobo_dan

Social climber
Minnesota
Jan 21, 2019 - 07:27pm PT
250 km in the last two weeks. More snow coming tonight and the Birkie trail could use it
the goat

climber
Mazama, WA
Jan 22, 2019 - 08:58am PT
It's going to be a great weekend in the Methow for the Ski to the Sun relay. Skied yesterday on cold, fast snow. The grooming was, as usual, perfect.


ionlyski

Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
Jan 22, 2019 - 09:59am PT
Wow! I can't make the Methow next weekend but if anybody wants a well organized race with an authentic nordic community, meet me at Cabin Creek Feb 9th for the Stampede race, a 15K freestyle. Always great races there. The Ozzbaldy 50K in mid march is great also.

Arne
Todd Eastman

Social climber
Putney, VT
Jan 22, 2019 - 10:48am PT
Great to hear from the Nordies out there in Tacoland...

... have fun in your various events and daily skiing!
BruceHildenbrand

Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
Jan 22, 2019 - 11:53am PT
This year's Tour de Ski was awesome!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoGzCikEqaQ
the goat

climber
Mazama, WA
Jan 22, 2019 - 12:06pm PT
The final stage hill climb was amazing, Klaebo proved he's the real deal at 22! But my favs that day were Sjur Roethe and Simeon Krueger, damn they were impressive, Oestberg too.
BruceHildenbrand

Social climber
Mountain View/Boulder
Jan 22, 2019 - 12:45pm PT
Go Jessie Diggins! It was so hard to watch when she missed the wax in the 10k Classic in Oberstdorf. Oestberg won that race on 'zeros' AKA waxless skiis.
the goat

climber
Mazama, WA
Jan 30, 2019 - 09:30pm PT
Last weekend was about as good as it gets for the inaugural Ski to the Sun Marathon and Relay. However, its been pretty damn good all week and most of the winter. So much for "The Boy" bringing us a dry crappy winter.
[photoid=550987]
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Feb 27, 2019 - 07:29am PT
got out skiing with my sister for the 1st time in about 40 years.... ? My sister and Isa me and my sisterapparently we have the same taste in skies... ;)
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
Wilds of New Mexico
Feb 27, 2019 - 07:40am PT
Took the lad out for his first time skate skiing while we were up in Telluride for his freeride competition a few weeks ago.


tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Feb 27, 2019 - 02:13pm PT
Peter, Isa and I ski on the Craftsbury trails. When the Olympian skaters go by it feels like getting passed by a freight train.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 27, 2019 - 09:32pm PT
How brutal was todayís 15K Classic? The Slushfest! So happy for Sundby! He made up 18 seconds in the last 7-8 kís! So classy of Niskanen to congratulate him while he was still lying on the snow. And a big blubber baby at the interview! 😊

Whatís up with the Finns? Only Niskanenís Bronze to show? 😕
Todd Eastman

Social climber
Putney, VT
Feb 27, 2019 - 11:07pm PT
Whatís up with the Finns? Only Niskanenís Bronze to show? 😕

Finns canít find the right dope...😊
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Feb 28, 2019 - 12:26am PT
XC skiing has never been a destination for me, always just a vehicle to get somewhere over snow.

Except skating on corduroy. Loved that sh#t.
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