1977 Airplane Crash in Yosemite

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Mr Roy

climber
Seattle
May 29, 2013 - 11:45pm PT
Good, come by and say hi. I'm well known in the community..

BTW there is no reason to be afraid of each other.. I really know nothin' . Those times were like 5 lifetimes ago. But if you want to come by and ask MW is there 24/7. Right down the hill from Highpoint.

But I would rather talk about my trip to India..

Credit: Mr Roy
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
May 30, 2013 - 12:34am PT
Hey Licky! Just wondering where you're at with the book. I know that this thread gets cumbersome at times but some people really do just want to know.

How far out before publication? Still doing research? Writing text?

Please PM me if you want to keep it out of circulation.
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
May 30, 2013 - 06:16am PT
think i brought this up previously, let me think about it for a second or two ... oh yeah, purdy shur i did. uh huh. and nobody responded, so i'll try again. anybody remember the well known climber/park employee (or maybe it was his wife/gf/significant other (ferget) that was such (park employee) and he was reaping the benefits, wudeVah. i have conveniently fergot his name (LOL) so no worries, eh? anyway, and as the story goes/went, there was a lot of coke on the plain. dunno, never made it up there like i have said, i was a day late (1 f'n day) and at leat a dollar short. but, evidently, he was right on time (and not short of any bucks i might add) b'cuz he managed (or perhaps he simply finagled) to take a chopper up there early on, load it up to the hilt with not only weed, but a lot of coke, and then fly the bird back over to the freznoid vicinity. hey, i heard it from more than one peeps that were closely associated with his crew. i been through this thread at least once, beginning to end, and i ain't heard nothing about that. and, i know there was coke on the plane. plus, i have already recounted how one of my dearest of friends, who heard it directly from the horses mouth, told me that the fbi/dea/etc. were claiming that there wasn't only coke, but heroin on board the plane. and i know there was plenty of snow in the valley that summer. cudda came from sf, and much of it most likely did. anyway, probably shudda just avoided even clicking on this thread, have been cuz it seems to run its course already, and i've got more important things to do this morning, so...continue on!

edit: plus, as far as i'm concerned, don't really give a sh#t about it nor any book. it's all history, AFAIC! but i do care about what happened to one of my good friends, and still suspect he cud'da been murdered. ya all know who i'm talkin' about. so i just wanted to add, 'their ain't no rest for the wicked' and there ain't never gonna be...cuz eternity is a very long time. so best come clean while there's still time to do so...just sayin'!!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2013 - 04:10pm PT
Two major issues are, 1) why did they crash in the first place and 2) was it caused by someone or group that wanted them to crash?

I want evidence to either dispel or support the argument. Not the stuff that Hollywood puts into their movies or that some of the published books contain.

To get this information from the Feds has been tedious. I submit a FOIA request and get a wealth of info. Then during the reading of the documents I come across a report that talks about photos taken and yet my FOIA request asked specifically for photos. A second request nets photos. In another request I am provided only the final reports yet they had to be based on field reports that are not within the same files. This isn't just with the USP, but with every Fed agency I have contacted.

For example, I asked the FAA for the history of ownership. I received a very nice one inch thick envelope dating the plane back through each company that owned it. I submitted the same request one year later and was told there was no documentation for that tail number on record.

The NTSB submited a final report on the cause of the crash but I know that there were no NTSB employees at the lake when the plane and its parts were hauled out, cut up and air lifted to a flatbed then trucked to a scrap yard. FOIA requests to NTSB netted a response of "we have no documents or files for that crash or tail number". Then magically documents start showing up.

I know this sounds like whining, but its things like this that make it slow going, and I'm not doing this full time or with a crew of researchers.

zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
May 31, 2013 - 04:20pm PT
Two major issues are

Two remaining issues? I wanna know how many successful flights they made (roughly) and why they didn't use a Porsche or Pineapple Juice cans.

Hi Ric(k)!
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
May 31, 2013 - 04:47pm PT
The government records people are overworked and underpaid and have crappy jobs because people use the FOIA to harasses them constantly. Maybe it's a cover-up but maybe they don't give a crap about this old plane crash thing and just want you to leave them alone.

Going on 8 years. Any real progress on getting a book done?

Dave
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 31, 2013 - 06:16pm PT
First,I wouldn't doubt that there has been a cover-up although I fail to see
why there would be one. I rather doubt the plane was shot down and if there
was nefarious mechanical tinkering I doubt it would have made it as far as
it did.

Second, there is one hell of a lot of federal paperwork and crap does get lost.

Third, the NTSB, especially back then, rarely did more than a cursory investigation
of non-commercial accidents. Their thinking probably went along the lines
of "they got what they deserved" so I'm not surprised they wouldn't have sent
somebody in person.

Fourth, they were flying at night by the seat of their pants as low as
possible at a pretty good clip. A very few seconds of tiredness or inattention
and WHAM, you're dead. We're not talking about some dudes in an F-111 here.

Fifth, if there was other than weed on board it sure seems like the reliable
scuttlebutt would have made note of such. Scuttlebutt is rarely wrong, right? ;-)
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2013 - 09:32pm PT
Well Dave, maybe I ought to just stop asking...ya think?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 31, 2013 - 09:58pm PT
Licky, I don't wish you any ill will, I just think this is, at best, a tempest in a teapot with a very limited audience. I would be very surprised if anything close to a major publisher took this on. If you read the preface to Flying Through Midnight you will see what a struggle he had to bring it to fruition and that is one hell of a well written and gripping true tale with a much wider audience. Good luck, really!
AE

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 10, 2013 - 03:14pm PT

chirp....chirp...........chirp......chirp.....


(deafening sound of crickets, in a mild Yosemite spring's eve, waiting, waiting, waiting.......)


Sidmo, run do not walk to the nearest mental health professional, not for anything flamers here have written, but for your own sake - clearly, all they are after is to goad and trick unsuspecting, gullible, impressionable types like you to reveal some quirk, then they pounce without mercy.

Factoid reminders for newbies here: note the number of posts, go research the thread by section, and suspicious variability indicates motivations likely were never honestly revealed, or Lickey truly has a narcissistic master complex that demands absolute attention, whether negative or supportive - as long as you don't ignore him, he's the center of his own universe.
Had he any rudimentary ability as either journalist or writer of any stripe, he could have simply published editions One thru Seven by now, with corrections, updates, addendae, and so on. His excuse, i.e. something like "Oh, don't want to publish anything wrong/inaccurate/incomplete etc" is entirely bogus, and only feeds his delusion that he has a Magnum Opus to spring on the world, any moment now.

The rest of you mostly come across just as raving a**holes, provoking, goading, insulting, casting broad and baseless accusations or insults, (most strangely to me) siding with Lickey, all logic otherwise notwithstanding.
I hope some sociology or psych student is analyzing this rich ground, for the ways in which humans debase themselves on an embarrassing level, for cyber-bullying and idle manipulation of the susceptible.
What ever gave me the illusion, as an eager neophyte, that climbers were somehow nobler, better, characters than the hoi polloi in general?
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Jun 10, 2013 - 03:27pm PT
What ever gave me the illusion, as an eager neophyte, that climbers were somehow nobler, better, characters than the hoi polloi in general?

Yeah, what's with that? Why would a rational person think that climbers would be more honorable than, perhaps, model railroaders or kayakers? Any illusion of this is of your own making because there is certainly no outward signs that this is the case.

Licky may be just a tad bit behind on getting his book done, or he does have an attention to detail that is biting him in the ass, but deep psychological condemnations like calling him narcissistic seem over-the-top. There a big difference in telling him that he's doing a bad job and telling him that he has a personality disorder.

Dave
AE

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 10, 2013 - 04:11pm PT
rectorsquid

My analysis of Licky is based upon suffering thru years of this crap, with zero hint of an actual resolution or conclusion, as well as having had a parent who had the narcissistic personality disorder, which gives me an insider's view of the affliction and a hypersensitivity/"Narcissist detector" that apparently sets off an internal warning whenever I see too many of the warning symptoms in another's behavior. My diagnosis may be a stretch, but it is distinct from a direct insult or call-out.
If you think my condemnation of him is harsh, well, you obviously have not read or scanned the scores of cruel taunts here directed towards Sidmo primarily but many others earlier. Harshness rules, here, and the poor suckers who get drawn in have been baited, lured, hooked, reeled in so often it appears to be a "catch and release" cesspool of stagnant opinions, paranoia, unsubstantiated rumors and outright conjecture.
The abject pettiness expressed by otherwise respectable figures of Yosemite climbing history continues to support the notion that despite past successes these folks by and large have nothing better to do now than to rant and rag endlessly via hundreds to thousands of empty trivial postings solely to shore up their deep insecurities and fears their lives have been ultimately selfish and inconsequential.
I'll restate the obvious and you can tell me off in another seven years if I'm wrong:
1. I GUARANTEE there will never be a book. Period. Ever.*
2. Because of point 1, everything written by Licky has come to nothing, zero, nada and so all else is proven to be a grand straw man, red herring, MacGuffin, etc.
3. Everyone who has gotten worked up over this historical footnote has been played, whether sincerely supporting Licky, offering opinion or personal histories, or going berserk trying to challenge or refute something.
* 4. If a book does miraculously appear, it will be appallingly short, shallow, bereft of meaningful details hinted at endlessly here, in short, a suspicious disappointment to all who believed.
See ya in 2020
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 10, 2013 - 09:25pm PT
AE....do you really speak this way, or only write this way? Sidmo has the same problem. Itís very easy for a few of you to come across as though you've majored in ornamental Victorian Engrish for the sole purpose of drowning the reader in fluff and garbage.

No wait...Junior psychobabble is pretty impressive as well. When you mix it with the Ornamental Victorian Engrish professor you really have expanded your target audience. I'm thinking that I'm missing out.

The end result of your rant is not too far away from sidmo's. Neither work as a stimulator nor as a detractor. I know what I have to do and I have my focus. So I ask you what is the purpose of your post?
Crazy Bat

Sport climber
Birmingham, AL & Sweanee, TN
Jun 10, 2013 - 10:45pm PT
I am new to the Taco as it seema to be called. Because of that I can wade through the flames without caring.

I want to thank Licky and everyone who have posted such entertaining stories to this thread.

Licky, I have a coupe of freinds who write historical books about caving. One writes about saltpeter mining. The other writes about more recent stuff. Ive learned from them that you are never done. The best you can do is present the possible theories and the evedence for each. Corrections are for second editions or an authors website. Goggle Larry Matthews and Marion O. Smith.

Start typing. I want to read your book. And remember flames die if you dont feed them or fan them. Ive found the best way to handle flaming trolls is to ignore them and refuse to respond.

Crazy Bat
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 10, 2013 - 11:10pm PT
Thanks Crazy...To be honest, I write all the time. I have many chapters, some finished and many get re-tuned as new info comes in. The stories that I now seek are not from the climbers. I am now working on what caused the crash and who might have been involved. There are quite a few loose ends that lead to the Feds. THAT has been my focus for the past two or so years.

I'm not interested in publishing book and then a sequel to the sequel just because I didn't get all of the info or the facts correct the first time through.

I am also now working with a video production company that is using much of my data to produce a documentary about the event. The producer is approaching the event the same way I am. Many of the players in this event have already been interviewed by the producer. You guys know who I mean.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Jun 11, 2013 - 06:24am PT
While we wait with baited breath, Santa Monica killer's arsenal:


Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jun 11, 2013 - 06:33am PT
I am now working on what caused the crash and who might have been involved. There are quite a few loose ends that lead to the Feds. THAT has been my focus for the past two or so years.

I would warrant that 99% of your potential audience couldn't give a rat's ass about these details.

I've asked it before. Could we at least see a proposed Table of Contents? It would in no way commit you to having to use it.
Tobia

Social climber
Denial
Jun 11, 2013 - 06:50am PT
Reilly, Flying Through Midnight was an interesting read and a bizarre tale.


AE

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 11, 2013 - 12:07pm PT
I would not bother a dip back in the cesspool here, except Mr. Schloss asked a specific question.
First, though, notice how he immediately used his standard ploy of attacking me, without addressing my points? Critiquing my writing style in a blogsite is really important; I can hardly wait to return the favor, when your nonexistent book hits the stands.
Second, notice how he fawns over a new arrival - Crazy Bat - who innocently thinks Licky can be trusted, and is what he claims to be. He cannot help himself, but promptly ups the ante, into the Van Allen belts, with the promise of some "documentary". Fortunately, we learn the producer approaches the event the same way Licky has, so we have nothing to worry about.
A few entertained readers like zBrown and Randisi appear to have Licky pegged, and only enter the fray every so often out of boredom.
Last, to answer Mr. Licky, the purpose of my post is as Ali G says, "to keep it real." That is, to warn innocent bystanders and newbies that this entire thread is not what it claims to be, and should be read with a great deal of skepticism and scrutiny.
You squandered your claim of journalistic credibility years ago, and now seem to exist only here, to lure new generations into your yarn-spinning tales signifying nothing.
Put up or shut up.
Mr Roy

climber
Seattle
Jun 11, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
You getting the emails too, AE ? It's his next ploy to try to sucker you in.
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