1977 Airplane Crash in Yosemite

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Messages 1 - 2675 of total 2675 in this topic
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Original Post - May 21, 2005 - 10:35pm PT
In 1977 a plane loaded with dope crashed into Lower Merced Pass Lake. I knew the pilot and his wife since high school. His wife and I are working on co-authoring a book about the incident. I am looking for anyone that can recall any stories about what went on in the area during the first few weeks following the crash. We are not looking to expose anyone, we are looking for stories to add to what we already knew happened up to that night.I have talked to a few ex park employees that were there at the time and have gotten their take on things. Anyone else?

Rick Schloss
San Jose, CA
408-295-1501
WBraun

climber
May 21, 2005 - 11:52pm PT
Licky

I lived thru that whole thing man and always wondered [where the fu-ck] were those guys really flying to? Where was the original drop point for that plane load of grass going to?

Surely not into the lake ............
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 22, 2005 - 12:54am PT
WB, yeah there is so much more to the story as most stories have.

Tell ya what, I'm interested in hearing from anyone that has first hand stories about things that happened either by them or around them because of this crash. Anyone is welcome to email me with anything they have. They don't have to include their names, but if so, we'll certainly give them credit.

We are also looking for stories about what might have ended up in something good for people. You know, business that were started, colleges that were attended, that kind of thing. After almost 30 years we know there are lives that got a kick start from this thing, we'd love to hear about it.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 22, 2005 - 02:15am PT
There was a thread about this recently

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=68674#msg71978
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
May 22, 2005 - 02:44am PT
yellow, proceed with caution
AKutzer

Trad climber
Austin, TX
May 22, 2005 - 01:40pm PT
What is the statute of limitations on possible crimes that might have been committed?
For instance, if someone found and sold the mary jane at that time, could they still be prosecuted now?
Just curious.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 22, 2005 - 01:54pm PT
Well, believe it or not, one of my brothers was working a gate at Yosemite back then. Now he's in law enforcement and I'm seeing him today. I'll pose that question to him. Not to play legal eagle here, but its hard for me to believe almost 30 years later that it would still put people jeopardy. So, hold your breath and I'll report back. I'd bet a google search would yield that info as well for those that don't want to take my word.

And as far as a "Yellow Alert" goes. As I've said, we aren't even looking for names, just stories.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 22, 2005 - 09:48pm PT
WB, to answer your question, they were about half way from where they came from to about half way to where they were going. AND, they'd been doing it for quite a few years.

Stay tuned for more....
Largo

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
May 22, 2005 - 10:01pm PT
I can't imagine chiming in on this thread--so far as personal involvement goes--even though I've written around the topic several times, especially in Rock Jocks. Hiking for dollars we used to call it . . .

JL
bulgingpuke

Trad climber
cayucos california
May 22, 2005 - 10:38pm PT
John, Rock Jocks is my favorite climbing book ever, good job!

~TY~
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 22, 2005 - 10:41pm PT
Well since "one" never really knew the story behind the crash, a movie based on it might end up being a "reach" if ya grasp my point.
Ouch!

climber
May 22, 2005 - 10:46pm PT
Yo Largo. Bet that stuff could have you doing wheelies on that one wheelasickle. Underwater.
Lambone

Ice climber
Ashland, Or
May 22, 2005 - 11:22pm PT
was the movie Cliffhanger loosely based of this event? I remember Stalone looking for bags full or drugs or money or something from a plane crash in the mountains...
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2005 - 01:07am PT
I'm going to have to rent it tomorrow and watch. I understand the story line was just that, loosely based on a real situation.
can't say

Social climber
Pasadena CA
May 23, 2005 - 08:47am PT
Correct me if I'm wrong John, but were'nt you the first person to be given a screen credit for a premise.

based on a premise by....
Geezo

Trad climber
Austin, TX
May 23, 2005 - 11:46am PT
I have always been intrigued by that story and found most details in Lynn Hills' book, and knew that John Long had a connection to Cliffhanger, but didn't know Largo wrote about it as well (Rock Jocks?).

I would buy that book Licky. Working title?

-Geezo
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2005 - 01:29pm PT
I'll have to pick up a copy. I think the pilot's wife is working on contacting Lynn.

Thanks for the posts guys, this is starting to build some steam.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2005 - 02:24pm PT
Geezo...yeah kinda. Rick and Ricky were already taken. As a kid in Japan in 1954, our house maids couldn't pronounce Little Ricky, so it I was named Rittle Licky. Stuck with me all of these years. Came in handy in college
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
May 23, 2005 - 03:16pm PT
Perhaps people who were or were not involved would rather the subject was laid to rest. The seventies were a crazy time. Todays young people may not understand the climate in which our heros made those decisions. If you tarnish the reputations of those people you :

hurt the sport of climbing
ruin peoples reputations
may put sombody in jail
enrage law enforcement who will now view climbers as criminals
dont even know these people
encourage young people to screw up
help noone

people died dealing drugs from that plane. Perhaps you and your friends should be held responsible for that... okay? If you destroy good peoples image as climbing heros by spreading nasty rumors about it, we the climbing community will hold you responsible. If you really were related to the pilot then screw all this secrecy stuff. Put YOUR NAME up there and tell us all who YOU are and who your friends were and what illegal stuff THEY did. Nobody appreciates what you are trying to do. Expose yourself if you want to tell a story.
Leave the rest of the rumors were they are: Ancient history and probably BAD BETA!
Tradboy

Social climber
Valley
May 23, 2005 - 03:24pm PT
Hey, his name IS up there. Your solution to prevent young people from screwing up is to block history from being told and hold these strung out, dirtbag climbers on pedestals?
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2005 - 03:32pm PT
As it was posted, my name and phone number is posted. As for the real story, what I'm going after is what happened AFTER the crash. When we complete the book, what we can tell about, we will. We aren't out to trash anyone's reputation, real or imagined.

If you have something you'd like to contribute, you are welcomed to call me or email me. Names or nameless, either way works for me.
Ben Rumsen

Social climber
No Name City ( and it sure ain't pretty )
May 23, 2005 - 03:33pm PT
I think I smoked some of that in the Valley back in '77 - I vagely remember piles of wet pot in somebodys tent in C4................
Jay

Trad climber
Fort Mill, SC
May 23, 2005 - 05:10pm PT
Yeah, Rock Jocks, Wall Rats and Hang Dogs! I had more fun reading that book. A must read for anyone with a passion for climbing Yosemite. 2nd only to Camp 4 IMO.

Good luck on your book! Let us all know when publishing becomes a reality.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2005 - 05:47pm PT
I understand that someone made a short supply of tee shirts after the crash. Is there anyone around with a photo of one...uh..without the face just to help those that don't want to be identified.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 24, 2005 - 12:34am PT
Kofi Donny Annan
yea. there was some bad ju-ju associated with the whole thing (first and formost, the passengers in the aircraft)

Well a couple of tid bits of information.
There were no passengers other than the pilot and the copilot.
The plane was a Lockheed Loadstar
It was traveling from the South to the North
Ballaroama

Trad climber
so.cal
May 24, 2005 - 11:19am PT
Chainsaw wrote that a book on this subject will "enrage law enforcement who will now view climbers as criminals." What rock have you been under for ever, the Rangers hate climbers and its been that way for decades. Besides why should you or anyone have a say about wife of this pilot to write a book, ever hear of the 1st amendment. Seems like this guy Rick has said he doesn't want to expose any sensitive info regarding names
Also your drool about destroying peoples reputations is a canard that is worth a laugh or two. Climbing heros??? Oh come on, go climb for yourself and forget the hero's you regard as special, they could care less about you. The empty threat that "we the climbing community will hold you responsible." Oh yeah? I was at the lake in '77 and have been climbing in the valley for over thirty years and I encourage Rick and the wife of this pilot to publish a book. The climbing "community" is full of small groups of disconnected people with many different ideas and goals. There hasn't been a "community" for at least twenty years.
Rhodo-Router

Trad climber
Otto, NC
May 24, 2005 - 12:11pm PT
Climbers smoked marijuana???

I am shocked,
shocked,
to hear this.
Ballaroama

Trad climber
so.cal
May 24, 2005 - 12:16pm PT
Most of the time during that era smoking would take the edge off the acid just enough so leading was sane. Then after a few 800's it was steady as she goes mate.

Oh yeah...f*#k the police!!!!!!!!
Ballaroama

Trad climber
so.cal
May 24, 2005 - 12:32pm PT
Not to harp on chainsaw or others that don't want to hear the real history of a great time in Yosemite and elsewhere along with filling in the holes in this story people have been interested for decades, but this wasn't the crime of the century and it's the folks that benefitted from hiking for dollars are in no risk of loosing face or homes, businesses, or the freedom they may enjoy now. History told in full and as accurate as possible is one of the fruits of our freedom we should all cherish. Censored history is so mundane, this story has many exiting, insightful things that will blow some minds.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 24, 2005 - 12:48pm PT
Ballaroama, thanks for the support
smokin_nolens

Social climber
California Valley, California
May 24, 2005 - 03:13pm PT
Anyone who has ever loitered in the Valley long enough knows the story of J.L. & the 'dope plane' legend of Yosemite. There is a lot more slander & mudslinging going on various threads on this site, than what Rick could ever put in that book of his. And more power to you Rick (or Licky!), for doing more than most and actually doing something than just talking about it.
Oh, and Ballaroama-so eloquent, and to the point. You rock! Give these heathens the slap of reality!
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 24, 2005 - 03:22pm PT
Chainsaw, you didn't get your nic from ice carving did you?
Just saying? Let me know
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 24, 2005 - 06:15pm PT
I just spoke with the pilot's wife. She said I can publish her name to make the conversation easier. Its Pam.

Pam and I agree that in the book we'll be telling as much as possible about the events that led up to the date of the crash as well as what went on afterward from her perspective. As I've been hearing, no one has yet to be able to talk about where the plane was coming from or going to. That will all be told. It'll open many eyes.

As I relate some of the recent stories to Pam, she is actually saying, "This is getting to be fun." I'm glad she can have this kind of feeling after all of this time.

Keep 'em coming. If you know people and want to tell them what we're doing, please pass on my name, phone number or email addy.
Ballaroama

Trad climber
so.cal
May 25, 2005 - 10:14am PT
One funny tidbit from the lake during the frenzy. One guy was really new to the back-country having never set foot into the mountains in summer let alone winter, he didn't have a clue about how dangerous the ice was covering the lake. It was a week or so after it got really busy and he didn't know that many holes had already been cut and re-froze. He fell through the ice and was rescued by a Canadian that all at ST have heard of. Of course he didn't learn and fell through a couple times only to be rescued by myself and this famous valley climber that went on to write books that many here have read (not largo).
One more thing of interest is why there seems to be no FAA incident report for this crash. Did some of the LE that hauled their own loads before the general public found out cover-up this incident to cover their take ?? Did the DEA-FBI-NPSLE cover-up some of their shady activity?? Wouldn't be the first time we've heard of such stuff.
And just to set things straight, Jack Dorn wasn't murdered, he fell off the YFT to his death in an accident unrelated to the plane and the little black book. Jack was a really good guy and I miss him as much as I miss Yabo.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2005 - 02:50pm PT
Ballorama...now THATS the kind of stuff we're looking for.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2005 - 05:56pm PT
I will, thanks.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2005 - 06:44pm PT
We have decided to not use anyone's real name in this book. It will be more comfortable for everyone and easier to keep track of.
can't say

Social climber
Pasadena CA
May 25, 2005 - 06:57pm PT
You need to make sure you get an earful of the bad juju that has happened to many of the participants after the fact.

people dying
serious injuries
major rip offs

So..who did end up with the Black Book???

Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2005 - 07:10pm PT
I'm working on finding out about the black book as well what was in it. Not to keep it secret, I just don't have access to all of the facts right now. Stay tuned
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2005 - 07:41pm PT
Ok, here's the inside stuff on the "Black Book"

It was recovered but it was deemed illegible by the Feds.
What did it contain? Names, addresses, dates, money owed, money paid. All encrypted (remember, not too many people running around with high end laptops back in the mid-70's. Many wanted the book, but the Feds ended up with it.
Stonecowboy2001

Trad climber
Livermore, CA.
May 25, 2005 - 08:31pm PT
there is some info aka folklore provided by lynn hill in the national geographic 'adventure' issue april 2002
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2005 - 08:55pm PT
Yeah, Pam is in route to her place. When she gets home she's going to try to contact Lynn.

National Geographic did an article on it as well back then.
Russ Walling

Social climber
Bishop is DEAD, long live JT
May 25, 2005 - 09:11pm PT
As I remember, the plane took off from Yosemite West and was flying a big loop back to Yosemite West just to fool the FAA, DEA, NPS, CHP, SPCA and all the rest. Seemed to work as nobody would suspect this. All the weed was grown up on Michaels Ledge and Lay Lady Ledge and was moved by bicycle up to the West for packaging. This might be the first time the truth has ever been written. I hope it does not get anyone in trouble.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2005 - 09:12pm PT
The biggest problem was that the bikes weren't registered
Russ Walling

Social climber
Bishop is DEAD, long live JT
May 25, 2005 - 09:15pm PT
I think all the bike registration was in the black book. This will be a tough one to sort out. What is the statute of limitations on bike registration? Plus, I bet a few of those bikes were stolen from the Ice Cream Stand at the lodge. Hmmmmm....
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2005 - 09:26pm PT
You are the only one outside of those inside that knew about the SPCA. Amazing details are being revieled. I'm hanging around for more.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2005 - 09:35pm PT
We worried that we didn't have a license for the 1,500 lamas that were going to be used to outpack the shredded wheat rolls. The plan was to air drop them the next morning in packs of six...Lama six packs!

Now I'm starting to do this stuff too!
WBraun

climber
May 25, 2005 - 10:33pm PT
I saw the whole thing unravel from the very, very begining before anybody out there knew anything. But I'm not talking until I get ok from the original guys ........and that's that. Actually the original crew should do the talking if anybody. I wouldn't be throwing peoples names around here either, just bad style unless you were there.
Ballaroama

Trad climber
so.cal
May 25, 2005 - 10:49pm PT
I was there from the very begining and the crew that you think were the first to see and remove anything were NOT the usual suspects posted above. And I would have agree with Werner, don't post names because it's really lame, hot rats eat 44 bullets for breakfast.
Besides the fact that there were many more players than even the players could imagine, parts of the story should not ever be published.

Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 26, 2005 - 02:45am PT
I can appreciate a little help here, but if you notice, I've not asked for any names on the thread. Only via PM or phone.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 26, 2005 - 03:04am PT
I think maybe I should have changed my nic to "Ladle" for stirring up so much...uh...stuff.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
May 26, 2005 - 03:34pm PT
The incident inspired fiction beyond Largo's "premise" and the awful Cliffhanger. Jeff Long's fantastic (literally) novel Angels of Light, and the Nevada Barr mystery High Country, come to mind. Other examples?
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 26, 2005 - 08:18pm PT
I've only told this to one other guy so far. Anyone know the reason why the Park Service decided to not wait until the lake thawed to go up and do recovery?
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 26, 2005 - 10:16pm PT
Ok...here's the story. It turns out that the dive shop in Fresno called up a guy in Yosemite and said, "Hey...ya know we got guys down here that want to rent out just about everything we have!"

Dead of winter too. So the Rangers scooted up to the lake using a chopper.
nerdie

Ice climber
sacramento
May 26, 2005 - 10:26pm PT
30 years later I cant imagine anyone going to jail unless a more serious crime was involved other than distributing drugs and destroying peoples lives to turn a quick buck because one was too lazy to get a real job. Come on, a good report of the story would be interesting to read. Everyone knows there are people in all walks of life who try to cut corners and make a quick buck. If theyre afraid of being exposed as such maybe they should have thought twice before doing it. I cant wait for the book Licky! Good luck! Lets see who out there got their start the good old fashioned way, through Illegal activities!
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 26, 2005 - 10:31pm PT
Nerdie, don't be so quick to jump. (no pun intended). So far over half a dozen people have agreed to tell their stories so we can publish this book. Pam and I will be telling the entire story about how the plane got to that point, the gang that were there then will tell theirs, and we'll also tell about what went on after the crash as far as the investigation, lawsuits, and such.

To be honest, most have stepped forward with a hell of a lot of enthusiasm. No one seems to be holding back. When I post some of the things that I do, its to let people know that I'm not blow'n smoke here.
nerdie

Ice climber
sacramento
May 26, 2005 - 11:10pm PT
I seriously hope you get a good book out of.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 28, 2005 - 02:13am PT
So far there are almost a dozen people that have agreed to interviews. The stories from many have been absolutly enlightening, not to mention funny as hell. I appreciate everyone that is coming forward, I'm sure more will in the next few weeks.
qt

Mountain climber
psg, ak
May 30, 2005 - 03:44am PT
Rick- It was fun talking about this with you tonight.

Something good comes from everything.
From the devastating tragedy of Pam loosing her husband (and you your friend), came a summer of wealth and good spirits in the valley. It warms me that she (and you) can now write a book, and then perhaps close another volume in the encyclopedia of healing.

This book is a noble effort, and I encourage people to contribute.

That summer in the valley was one of my best. Half Dome with Mark. The river. Ballaroama and WB, I think we shared some happy ropes too. Bouldering with Yabo. And my friend who was on the initial find, but whom I wasn't to climb with until a year later in another state- we then realized we had honored the crashweed together a lot in C4. With Yabo, of course.
But both of the latter have long since deceased. They are missed. Still, I can even now conjure an image of Yabos bizarre fascial contortions while he cranked some hard boulders; the sound of pine needles crunching as he decks. Back when "spotters" were the guys who sat rolling, rather than holding their arms up under guys' butts as in these days.

This should be a good book, lots of input from those involved I hope.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2005 - 04:02am PT
qt, yep, gotta agree. Thanks for taking the time to call. It was, as it has been with all the other calls, an eye opener. I love it!

Stay tuned...
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2005 - 07:56pm PT
I just heard an interesting story about a couple of guys from Yosemite that had attempted to go to Chamonix only to get hung up in a bordello in Bourdeux and ended up refocusing their attention to the point of spending everything they had.

Anyone heard story?
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Jun 1, 2005 - 08:01pm PT
Well I guess some folks dont understand what I mean. One person said that erasing history will cause young people to idolize these "strung out" climbers. Just the opposite, fool. The kids already idolize them, not necessarily a good thing or my fault. But since Lynn Hill and John Long are huge icons in climbing, to portray them as drug dealers and addicts is definately encouraging kids to try that path. Very likely the people involved may have never done any of the things you assume. Ugly rumors are not history. But if one of my kids trys pot or gets hurt because of your stupid book..... Again I say, write a book about what YOU did and expose yourself, not others. Are you a climber or just a muckraker? Or a con artist looking to get leverage against people I care about? Do the climbing community a favor: LEAVE.
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Jun 1, 2005 - 08:08pm PT
Dear Licky, Your knowlege of the details of this "incident" suggests that you were involved with organized crime which has no statute of limitations. Furtheremore, your assets gained by criminal acts can be seized by the federal government at any time, without trial, indefinately after the fact. Also, your income tax evasion will lead to the same. Are you ready to answer alot of questions? Keep it up bud, we're keeping tabs on you. PS: watch out Largo, you're getting worked!
can't say

Social climber
Pasadena CA
Jun 1, 2005 - 08:23pm PT
chainsaw you sound like a tool..are you?
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Jun 1, 2005 - 08:29pm PT
Hey Ballorama, your reply makes my point for me. If you think modern contemporaries will find reason in your argument that "pot took the edge off the acid" then spout on. And I'm not impressed that you have been in the valley for 30 years. That just means that you are still living in the 70's. I think I know who you are and you look like you have a lot of mileage. Drugs have messed up your mind. Who knows what you could have been if you hadnt wasted your life getting high. Are you really even experiencing climbing? Drugged out and anesthetized, I doubt you have the courage to climb without the cruch. What do your wife and kids think of your drug habit? Or did you miss out on that part of life, getting high instead. Rock on Ballorama, honestly I can relate to your sentiment having been a drugged out looser myself some 17 years ago. Funny thing is I grew up and got sober. I feel really sorry for you. But keep on promoting Licky's stupid ideas. Your support does him more damage than my criticism ever could.
ricardo

Gym climber
San Francisco, CA
Jun 1, 2005 - 08:39pm PT
actually chainsaw sounds more like a born-again ..

.. dude needs some help..
shakey legs

Trad climber
san diego ca
Jun 1, 2005 - 08:42pm PT
The staute of limitations on felony drug charges is three years. If there are murder charges then there is no statute of limitation. If you have concerns about your situation please feel free to call me at (619) 743-0121 or email me directly. I am a criminal defense Lawyer. My primary practise is Federal drug crimes in southern California.
David
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Jun 1, 2005 - 08:46pm PT
maybe I am a tool. The fact is licky can publish whatever he wants. Total hypocracy it is for some to wave the first ammendment at me. I never said he couldnt write these things. I merely expressed my and others opinions and frustration. Evidently those who have minority opinions are not allowed to speak them by your version of the constitution. I am brave enough to speak my mind regardless of what you think. I am not a sheep who follows people he is scared of. I have my own opinions and I am not afraid to be the only one to oppose lickys stupid book. And shame on this Pam lady for trying to profit from her husbands death. In my tradition, the dead are left in peace.
climberweenie

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Jun 1, 2005 - 09:25pm PT
chainsaw: "But if one of my kids trys pot or gets hurt because of your stupid book....."

sounds like you have more serious parenting issues if your kids are so fragile as to be tempted by such a book into doing stupid stuff. there are plenty of more compelling opportunities in their faces every day than a book about some old dudes they don't care about. then again, if the book is about you, you have some 'splaining to do! hard to walk the 'do as I say not as I do' rope as a parent.

spend more time building relationships with them and helping them form a strong independent identity, rather than trying to stop the creation of every temptation in the world. if your parenting is in any way similar to your forum exhortations, you are probably setting your kids up to lack judgment skills that they will need when presented with the very situations you are concerned about.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2005 - 09:47pm PT
Chainsaw, if you are the guy that fell into the lake, seems to me you might want to shed some light regarding the events. Especially if it will help end the rumors that continue to float around.

You are welcomed to call, email, or post what you know.

Thank you in advance.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2005 - 10:02pm PT
Yeah, I figured, but you have to give me credit for being such a nice guy.
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
Jun 2, 2005 - 10:13am PT
Here is what I heard, about 14th hand, about the first few days after the crash.....

The plane went in around Christmas 1976. Some hikers spotted it and let the NPS know. They hiked up there to do something about it but were caught in a big blizzard and almost died. They decided to wait until spring. A seasonal ranger, who was also a climber, heard about what had happened and then the fun began.

Some other tidbits that I expereinced in the spring 1977 first hand.

 I remember the US Customs finally going up to the lake and using helicopters and divers to do a lot of the recovery (of what was left!). I just had to pimp these guys a bit and talked to some of them in El Cap Meadow (where the choppers landed). The Customs guys told me they were doing "training" up in the mountains.

 Maybe my memory is fading a bit, but I swear this happened. When the Customs folks realized what had happened, they decided to try and infiltrate Camp 4 and get some information. I remember one guy wearing lederhosen, a grean felt hat and klunky mountain boots coming up to me and asking where he could get some "stuff". It was like a bad "Get Smart" episode!

Bruce
Watusi

Social climber
Joshua Tree, CA
Jun 2, 2005 - 12:18pm PT
Geez!!! I remember some Whipping Headaches from that stuff!!! Reeking of fuel, but damn cheap!
Ballaroama

Trad climber
so.cal
Jun 2, 2005 - 12:43pm PT
Whatever chainsaw, yawn. I could care less what you think of me and I'll bet you don't know who I am. Do you really care? I love the part about the wife and kids, yeah, if you don't have a family your a looser. Go preach somewhere else jackass.

edit: just tried to call Rob Trelford - aka chainsaw, and the schmuck hung up on me. With a little research I found he is a coach for USA climbing and the bad influence on the kids he coaches maybe has something to do with his worry about the book.
Piss off Rob. Saw a photo of you on the web and can assure you we have never met. I am in the Valley right now if you wish to talk. Come on up and see me!
But with the idiotic slander you spewed my direction is pretty funny stuff. So all your slander must be directed at the person you assume me to be. I haven't consumed any recreational drugs for more than a decade Rob and for someone that coaches children you should be ashamed of yourself for spewing divisive garbage that increases the chances of your of your students becoming idiots like you. Rob Mr.USA CLIMBING, you should hold yourself to a higher standard when you preach your pathetic gospel. For the guy that posted something about "hero's" your blather is really funny because some of these hero's of yours were big time drug addicts as opposed to myself.
WBraun

climber
Jun 2, 2005 - 12:58pm PT
Yea there were some chainsaws up at that lake.

Chainsaw was that one crazy mofu-cker waving that saw around when he accidentally sawed half his head open. Guys came running over and had to stuff his brains back in and use a speedy stitcher to sew him back up, as the story goes.

He never quite was the same after that ......
Ballaroama

Trad climber
so.cal
Jun 2, 2005 - 02:44pm PT
Chainsaw is Rob Trelford from USA climbing so his ranting about "were watching you" is very interesting. Is USA climbing a Law Enforcement agency Rob? Just wondering if you teach those gym rats to be rats???? You suck Rob and though I haven't met you like you think, I know know who you are now and I can't wait to have a word with you in person. Piss off coach bitch and pull on some plastic while you pull your pudd chump.
Can't help but add a few things about ROB TREFOLDS mentoring of kids at USA Climbing. Here is a guy that obviously thinks we should hide the truth from developing minds when of course the truth shall set them free. Bastardized history should be used for birdcage liner not the propaganda tool for christo-fascist bigots like you. In the words of Bob Marley "Tell the children the truth". If you were worthy mentor you would a better understanding of history. So what if this book gets published, Rick has already stated he has no plans on exposing names (scroll up) so I don't know what you are worried about. Maybe you want all youth to be singing Onward Christian Soldiers along with you cause it makes you feel good??
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Jun 2, 2005 - 04:35pm PT
Dear Ballorama,

Alright I give up. I'm sick of dealing with you. The forum was supposed to be for discussing ideas and opinions. Not for hunting down and harrassing people. Calling me at home was a very bad idea as is lickys book. Do not ever contact me again or I will take legal action against you. I have nothing to do with what happened at the lake, but it continues to haunt the entire climbing community. A dark specter to be erased, not glorified.
And yes I am a USA Climbing coach. At USAC we discourage drug use and the self destructive mentality that goes with it. You are the one with bad judgement, not me. I have stood up and spoken out against drug use by climbers and against glorifying the stupid things people did in the seventies. My strongest climber and gymnast just washed up because she got sucked into her mother's crank and coke world. Tragic. It is easy to say that diluting the temptation out of their world doesnt help. Perhaps you are right. But when you loose your loved ones to jails institutions and death it leaves one pretty upset and wanting to do something about it.
And you can call it co-dependance if you like. All that idealistic crap about letting go sucks. It is easy to say but impossible to live. Yea maybe my mind is messed up from all the suffering that sh#t has caused me and others. I lost my mother and a sister to drugs. My mother is a hardcore valium addict. My oldest sister died recently of a heroin overdose in Canada. Her husband was a dealer. Another personal friend of mine was likely killed in Humbolt last year over a deal gone bad. No-one knows what happened to him but the FBI would like to know. This is not a f*#king game people.
Stop what you are doing and think about the consequences. Of the thousands of young people who will read this book if even one chooses to "try this at home" then it was not worth it. Take responsibility for your actions. And I can see your rhetoric coming; "well why dont you take responsibility for your own sh#t, chainsaw, and stop blaming others?" The fact is I was the helpless unwilling child who had no choice but to live with that sh#t for ten awful years. And yes it f*#ked me up bad. Maybe I am crazy. I would do anything to take it back but I cant. I would do anything to save even one child from the suffering I have known at the hands of addiction. And I do not have any children of my own because of it. I am the looser with no family because drugs destroyed it. And then I chose to follow in the footsteps of my heros at the time. Unfortunately they were pop culture icons and musicians. Their influence led me down the path to destruction. Since then I have earned two degrees, I have a masters and I work as a biology professor. I have pulled myself up out of the dark and taken responsibility. I am the one in nine who makes it back from where I went. The other eight are dead and gone.
I coach a climbing team of kids who need my help to stay straight. I help other peoples kids deal with alot of problems their parents cant even begin to understand. I have learned that the Davis junior highs now have heroin and cocaine sold there. My kids tell me the things their parents couldnt hear. I know what they are dealing with and I shudder everytime another one goes down the tube.
Its funny how people have so much hatred and anger towards me just for my opinion. Can it be that in your heart you know that what I say is true? Furthermore, if you dont care what I think then why did you violate the privacy of my handle and call me at home? That kind of action is taking things too far. If you dont like what I have to say then dont read it. Calling me at home and threatening me is outrageoous. And you say "I have not done recreational drugs in ten years" If you have actually cleaned up your act then why do you support the glorification of something you yourself have finally accepted as wrong. I know my delivery is pretty confrontational. Just remember this famous quote; The truth is first disregarded as nonsense, then violently opposed and finally accepted as self evident. In my mind what I have said is very self evident. All the deaths and problems associated with the lake incident make it pretty clear. If you want to continue to violently oppose what I have said then go ahead but I will not be listening. As of right now I am dropping out of the forum and discontinuing my supertopo membership. I am not interested in associating with people like licky and balloramma and so far that is what I have found on that site.
I do know of one climber from Davis who would hopefully support what I have said. She was smart enough to stay out of drugs, unlike many of her cohorts at that little gym. Where are you Beth?
Ballaroama

Trad climber
so.cal
Jun 2, 2005 - 04:44pm PT
Fair enough Rob, and my condolences about your family members and others you know that have died due to drugs. I will not call you again as well, no worries but I couldn't help it knowing all along who you were. You stepped into the forum and look what happened, you got called on your BS. Don't imply threats have been offered by me, not so. Unless you consider wishing to talk it over a threat.
can't say

Social climber
Pasadena CA
Jun 2, 2005 - 04:46pm PT
Licky...put me down for two copies of the book.

chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Jun 2, 2005 - 06:14pm PT
Alright ballaroama. I apologize. You have a right to your opinion. But publishing my name while you remain annonymous is cowardly and disrespects the spirit of the forum. People may wish to be annonymous so they can speak honestly. Now I am afraid to speak honestly about anything because you had the nerve to call me at home. And trust me, you do not want to meet me in person. Incidentally, Bob Marley whom you quote died untimely of lung cancer related to his overuse of pot. Didnt you know that? If I am to tell the children the truth as I see it, then I say the truth is :dont do drugs. they destroy people. that is the dark side. If you do drugs your life will be affected in ways you cannot understand until it is too late. And as far as barging into the forum, that is what it is for. And everything in it is pretty much venting and BS. calling me at home means that you obviously take it too seriously. Now i am taking it very seriously because you threatened me. And why do you hate Christians so much? My opinion has nothing to do with it. I dont believe in churches and all their dogma. seventeen years ago I would have actually argued in favor of your point of view. but life lessons, not dogma are what I base my opinions on.

Anyway, truce okay? I will gladly listen to what you have to say as you have done for me and I respect that. Sorry if my emotions got away from me. But when your loved ones die, it changes you forever. I will never recover from what happened to me. All I can do now is try to help others avoid that. And as far as the gym rat stuff goes, you are way off. My kids are becoming trad leaders like me. I was a professional arborist for a long time and I've had my share of close calls. If I were stoned when those things happened I would have gotten killed many times over. Climbing at the level I do outdoors requires 100 percent of my focus and I cannot afford to be high. It might not even be me who dies as a result of my own stupidity if I were to climb stoned. Guiding children in the outdoors is not something for stoned people to do. And what would their parents think? They have a right to know that their kids are safe. I am their protector. Why do you think I reacted the way i did? i see this book as a threat to their welfare.

I guess I will stay in the forum a bit longer to see if we can resolve at least not to do anything stupid. OKAY?
akclimber

Trad climber
Eagle River, AK
Jun 2, 2005 - 06:43pm PT
"But if one of my kids trys pot or gets hurt because of your stupid book"

Well, I haven't been paying attention to this forum but I browsed through it today and this jumped out at me.

Parents are to blame for this sort of thing. They should do a better job of raising their kids to admire the right kind of people.
WBraun

climber
Jun 2, 2005 - 07:15pm PT
This book is a threat to peoples welfare? Glorification? "But if one of my kids trys pot or gets hurt because of your stupid book"

Holy Moly do always put the blame on everything outside of you? This whole world is a nut house and it’s your job to educate to differentiate between right and wrong. You’re the scary guy Chainsaw, what kinda name is that? I had visions of that crazy mofu-cker in that movie with that chainsaw. Plus you came in here anonymous. An upstanding citizen like you shouldn’t be hiding behind some wall? You should’ve been in the clear since day one and spoke your drool.

Command the respect that you deserve!

I’m not hiding anywhere, I use my real identity. Then you threaten Largo wtf is wrong with you man. Now Ballaroama I have a good idea who he is, smart dude to be able to pull you out of the hat like that. He published your name because you started the original threats. Largo isn’t hiding either. And your teaching our future generation with this kind of display?

Ok …. You’re forgiven we all are screw-ups at times.
Looking forward to a more super-dialog.

Best regards, Werner
ricardo

Gym climber
San Francisco, CA
Jun 2, 2005 - 07:31pm PT
great -- so the truth comes out ..

chainsaw is all f*#ked up because of all the drugs in his life (that he did.. and people around him did) .. i'm sorry that it happened to you ..

.. the rest of us who have not had our lives f*#ked up by drugs would love to read about the plane crash and all the crazy stuff that happened because of it ..

i'll buy a book also.
Ballaroama

Trad climber
so.cal
Jun 2, 2005 - 07:39pm PT
I apologize as well and some of the things I posted were out of line as was calling you. I think the point you make is valid and I was wrong to say you are a lousy mentor, it's obvious your a good person. What we disagree on about publishing this book is kinda out of our hands and I know your concern but i still think it would be a great story for many. I wasn't calling you to make a threat, I really did wish to have a conversation about how you though you knew me. Enough of that jive, I think we can agree to have opinions about this book that are not going to mesh with one another. Sorry again for stepping over the line, it wasn't meant to be as nasty as some here think, SPICY THREADS GET ATTENTION DON'T THEY!!


Bashing religion is in bad taste and I have my reasons for disliking some christians. I don't know you so what i said was really awful and I apologize.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Mill Valley
Jun 2, 2005 - 08:33pm PT
Make no doubt about it -- this is the best thread I've seen in ages.
Very entertaining on many different levels. Since I've been the victim of internet
stalkers--which led me to coin the legendary Internet Bitches™
moniker--it really got my attention when I saw this:

Dear Licky, Your knowlege of the details of this "incident" suggests that you were involved with organized crime which has no statute of limitations. Furtheremore, your assets gained by criminal acts can be seized by the federal government at any time, without trial, indefinately after the fact. Also, your income tax evasion will lead to the same. Are you ready to answer alot of questions? Keep it up bud, we're keeping tabs on you. PS: watch out Largo, you're getting worked!

Chainsaw, I think you have fairly redeemed yourself with your subsequent, heart-felt posts.
But if something like the above was directed at me--I probably would have done the same.
(as in contacting you to have a man-to-man talk--at least on the phone)
While I can understand your sentiment, I think you are projecting way too much.
It's funny when pot gets lumped into the "drugs" category, while nothing is said
about alcohol, which is profoundly more damaging on so many different levels.
(however, I'm doing rather well on 2 to 4 beers a day, thank you very much)

I admire your passion in trying to be a positive influence in kids lives,
and trying to show them a better way. The 30-year old Plane Crash story
isn't glorifying drugs in my humble opinion--it's about a bunch of folks
living at the sub-poverty level who were lucky enough to be in the right place
at the right time when a once-in-a-lifetime manna rained down from the heavens--
and made life easier for a bunch of folks. If someone actually died later in some
way related to this, well, that's life in the big city. People die every day over much
more mundane things, such as stupid road-rage incidents.

The OP has made it quite clear that he isn't naming names, FWIW.
There's obviously a lot of interest in this story; it ain't gonna go away.

Anyway, thanks for what you do. You should be proud.

Dave Buchanan


Degaine

climber
Jun 2, 2005 - 08:44pm PT
Chainsaw wrote: "Bob Marley whom you quote died untimely of lung cancer related to his overuse of pot. Didnt you know that?"

Probably not relevant to the discussion, but for all those who may care or be curious, I am 99% sure Bob Marley actually died of brain cancer. The form of cancer he had was malignant melanoma – and if the story I remember is correct, doctors originally found cancer cells on one of his big toes - it started out as skin cancer and then spread.

For what it’s worth.
shakey legs

Trad climber
san diego ca
Jun 2, 2005 - 09:07pm PT
Chainsaw how about teaching your kids about potential consequences for their actions. If I remember right a whole generation of kids were real upset about being lied to and having information withheld from them. Seems a lot of these young people rebelled by turning to drugs and other illegal activities. DONT make the same mistakes our parents made!
By the way this activity does not reach the threshhold for ongoing criminal enterprise. Worse case senerio it is a conspiracy which has a 5 year statute of limitations. There is also no nexis 25 years later for criminal forfieture.
The Alpine

Big Wall climber
Tampa, FL
Jun 3, 2005 - 12:56am PT
So I was gonna keep my trap shut about this post UNTIL...... Chainsaw - above you mentioned that Bob Marley died of lung cancer from smoking pot.
You realize thats completely wrong right? He got cancer in his big toe, left it untreated and it spread to his brain.

RIP Bob.
Mountain Man

Trad climber
Outer space
Jun 3, 2005 - 02:17am PT
Bob Marley

One of the greatest songwriter and singer of all time.

He must be singing up there with Jah, right this minute.
guyman

Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jun 3, 2005 - 12:03pm PT
If I recall correctly, the boo had a special taste, feel to it: All shake, powerful expansion with overtones of lake water and 110 octane av-gas, Very nice.
Go write your book, please do a good job, I will buy one.
Tom Bruskotter

Trad climber
Seattle
Jun 3, 2005 - 01:25pm PT
Interesting how fast y'all are willing to spill the beans to an internet stranger. What Jaybro said: "Yellow, proceed with caution."

And Licky, just a little help from one "writer" to another - it's spelled "revealed", not "revieled"
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Mill Valley
Jun 3, 2005 - 03:47pm PT
--And Tom, you forgot to put a period at the end of your sentence...
BigSky

Mountain climber
Big Sky Montana
Jun 3, 2005 - 05:51pm PT
Chainsaw wrote: "Its funny how people have so much hatred and anger towards me just for my opinion."

Actually, my anger is more related to your crimes against spelling and general grammar.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Mill Valley
Jun 3, 2005 - 07:08pm PT
Thanks for the great stories, Rockjox. This is some of the best stuff ever written here.

The more the better!
WBraun

climber
Jun 3, 2005 - 09:08pm PT
Jack was drunk that night just like I was except he decided to hike up the trail and I didn’t because I knew I was hosed. The party in question was on the Yosemite Point Buttress not El Cap. They got caught in the dark and wanted off.

He walked off the trail man because he was drunk! Nobody pushed him for crying out loud. It was that stupid dumb ass who wrote that first book Angels of WTF it’s called. He asked me a bunch of questions when he was researching stories for his book. He told me it was going to be semi fiction. He started all those idiotic rumors about Jack. He told me he was going to write it like that.

I can show anyone the exact spot and you’ll see very quickly how someone, not even intoxicated, can easily walk off the trail, what to speak of being hammered. It was night time and late.

All these dumb ass rumors ........
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 7, 2005 - 01:49am PT
Rokjox, great stories. Hope you get in touch with me.
Burt Bronson

climber
Jun 7, 2005 - 04:56pm PT
LICKY, BURT BRONSON HERE.

WHEN I FOUND THE WEED IN LATE 76, IT WAS GOOD DAY. I HAD JUST COME OFF OF THE FIRST UNREPORTED FREE ASCENT OF THE ZOD (IN WINTER MIND YOU - PORTER WAS A PUSSY) AND, BEING THE HARDMAN I AM, DECIDED TO HIKE OUT THROUGH THE MEADOWS FOR SPORT. I SAW THE PLAN OVERHEAD AND DECIDED IT WOULD BE A GOOD TIME FOR A SMOKE BREAK. AS I LIT MY MOSTER DOOBIE TO TAKE THE EDGE OFF OF THE ACID, MY ZIPPO CAUGHT THE SUNS RAYS AND APPARENTLY FLASHED A BLINDING LIGHT AT THE PILOT BECAUSE IT WAS AT THIS TIME THE PLAN CAME NOSE DIVING DOWN. WHEN THE PLANE HIT, THERE WAS CARNAGE EVERYWHERE (OH YEAH, CONDOLENCES TO YOU AND YOURS). I WAS DEVISTATED BUT ONLY FOR A TIME. AFTER TRAVERSING THE FROZEN POND, AND FINDING NO SURVIORS, I STARTED TO HEAD BACK. HOWEVER, A LARGE TRASH BAG FULL OF WEED CAUGHT MY EYE. NOW I WAS HAPPY. I LOADED THE WEED INTO MY HAULBAG (ACTUALLY IT WAS A MAIL BAG) AND STARTED TO HIKE OUT. IT WAS THEN I SAW THE BLACK BOOK, WHICH I TOOK WITH ME AND STILL HAVE TO THIS DAY. (I USE IT TO BLACKMAIL PEOPLE DUE TO THE STATUE OF LIMITATION NOT BEING UP YET). ANYHOW, I HIKED BACK DOWN TO CAMP 4 AND SOLD AND SMOKED ALOT OF IT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT I DID WITH THE MONEY I MADE FROM THE WEED. I KNOW I BOUGHT SOME GEAR, SOME PUSSY AND SOME BEER WITH IT. THAT IS ABOUT ALL I REMEMBER FROM 1977. I DO THINK I HAD A GOOD TIME, BUT DON'T REALLY KNOW. I DO KNOW THAT I DIDN'T START A BUSINESS, USE THE MONEY FOR COLLEGE OR DO ANYTHING PRODUCTIVE WITH IT - I GUESS YOU COULD SAY THAT WEED RUINED MY LIFE. I WISHED I HAD THE FORESIGHT TO HAVE STARTED USA CLIMBING AS THAT PROBABLY WOULD HAVE SAVED ME.

BURT BRONSON
THE LAST BASTION OF THE SERIOUS WEED SMOKER OF 77.
wildone

Social climber
the little ditch
Jun 7, 2005 - 05:31pm PT
Burt- Good to hear from you! What have you been doing lately? I was thinking about doing some early season training. I was thinking of girdling every mountian in the Himalayans in a single push, alpine style. My question is this: I was planning on taking two hard boiled eggs with me. Does this mean I'm light?
Also, the next day, I might check out the Karakorum. Is there anything worth doing in that choss heap of a mountain range?
Maybe I'll see you out there.
B
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 7, 2005 - 06:23pm PT
I have to tell the NTSB to rewrite their version of the crash. Man have they got some splain'n to do!
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Jun 7, 2005 - 07:21pm PT
Wow! I really pissed alot of people off. I guess that is what I wanted but when you ask for something you get it. Now I regret my actions and respectfully apollogize to all, especially to ballaroama who was a better man than I for his sincere apologies and willingness to get along with me. I was really mad about the subject when I wrote about it and I should have just chilled. Maybe I am a bit sick in the head after all I went through with drugs and pot. I have now posted a reply to "Airplane book one" about my understanding of what happened. My information comes from people who live in columbia and worked with me at the high sierra music festival in bear valley ca. I was the trash and recycling director there from 1997 to 1999. I've picked up and dug through alot of trash in my time so this stuff is very familliar. Sometimes writing into a computer screen doesnt feel like personal communication so I just vented, not considering the feelings of people who received my lambasts. Inexcusible. Oh well, cant take it back... like too many things I've done.

and about johns books; I never will stop teaching with those books. His writings on climbing have been a huge inspiration and his words of wisdom may be why I survived this long as a climber. If anyone thought I was trying to call him a "drug dealer" I mean just the opposite. I feel that lickys book is what does that and hense my anger and frustration.

And to you Largo, I am sorry I spoke on your behalf thinking I was protecting you. You dont need my help and choose your own destiny. I have no right to expect you to set a good example but I hope you continue to do so and avoid all this mud that is slinging around the subject of weed.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 11, 2005 - 11:00pm PT
It appears that Chainsaw has calmed down as everyone else. I have to say I appreciate both the support and the level headedness that most used during this past flame (out).

Just an up date for those that have been following this thread.

I've just recieved a CD containing photos of the crash site. These images were taken by the investigating crew and are now public domain. Very interesting stuff. Some of the images show the lake with holes cut into it with chainsaws. Who0 would have thunked?
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Jun 14, 2005 - 04:14pm PT
Interesting, I just got an email from a howard who says he is forwarding my post about jupiter to the sherrif dept. so much for your fantasy of open conversations...I told you this would happen! I really dont care what he does since it is all just rumor...be careful what you say....there are others watching. And it is amazing how well a bit of fantasy misinformation threw everybody off the trail of JL and LH. I guess my plan worked, although it sucks being the one to take a fall for the team. That is always my job. I guess that is why I am the coach.
Largo

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
Jun 14, 2005 - 05:46pm PT
I lost track of this thread but glossed through it just now and wonder how the thing heated up so. I lost interest in the whole plane thing not because it wasn't interesting at the time, but because it happened nearly 30 years ago. It's over, done, finished. And I quite smoking weed before my firt daughter was born--17 years ago--so the weed thing is now about as romantic as bong water.

It was exciting then, but the thing bores the sh#t our of me now . . .

JL
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 14, 2005 - 09:20pm PT
Rokjox...great stuff! As for people feeling hesitant to want to talk, I can understand that. This is why I'm telling those that do want to talk to us, we'll do it any way they want. Hell, if they want to put it on an etch-a-sketch just to make sure it can be erased...that's cool too. As I've said, we won't be using names anyway.

And for Chainsaw. Well, guy, all I can say is if you post bullsh#t, you'll sooner or later have to clean it up or as Rokjox points out, edit quickly. I know who the guy is that sent you that email. I'd say you'll probably be having your own interviews in the near future. Me(?), I'm still talking about 30 years ago, not today.

Enough on that boring subject.
WBraun

climber
Jun 14, 2005 - 09:56pm PT
Interesting ...... as chainsaw only posts here about this airoplane bullsh#t. Always trying to stir up some more sh_it.

Gives a real good clue to ......
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 14, 2005 - 10:24pm PT
Chainsaw, I think you are being disingenuous to everyone who reads this thread. Why not post the email that "Howard" sent you? Then everyone will know what his real concern is.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 16, 2005 - 01:06am PT
Rokjox, I understand how you feel. I am however on lead on this one, out of choice, mine. Free and clean.
swami

climber
Jun 17, 2005 - 09:05am PT
Jack's death has bothered me for 28 years due to these 2 pieces of information. First, I knew Jack and had a long talk with him approx. a week before he died. He told me he had gone into the cockpit and retrieved a notebook and a bag of coke. He had looked at the notebook and was scared shitless at what he had found due to the high profile names of the investors. He expressed the fear that if it got known that he had the book he was as good as dead. The second piece of info was another friend who didn't know jack was this; he was a vietnam vet, rough around the edges who in making a visit to the va hospital in the bay area was approached by an acquaintance and told that some people were very interested in retrieving the notebook and a hit was out for whoever had it. Shortly thereafter Jack died. I'm sorry but I think Jack was murdered.
WBraun

climber
Jun 17, 2005 - 12:44pm PT
“I'm sorry but I think Jack was murdered.”

Highly speculative hypotheses. The so called murderer would have had to be on scene during that YOSAR incident. So called murderer would have to have known the subtle layout of the Yosemite Falls Trail due to the time Jack was killed, at night. He would have had to know exactly the best places where to make it look like a accident. Not something a murderer would be able to think or plan out because of the nature of rescues. They happen at any time, anywhere, with too many witnesses around. Not a murdering type plan at all, no secrecy.

Remember, Jack had been drinking heavily that night ………….
swami

climber
Jun 17, 2005 - 04:28pm PT
Since I am not privy to the accident investigation that was done following Jack's death I don't know his level of ontoxication. I do know the one spot on the trail that someone could fall quite easily to their death. It is not such a tripping hazard that the park service has put a railing or wall up nor has anyone else tripped and fallen to their death that I am aware of. For Jack to fall at that exact spot I would imagine that he would have been stumbling quite heavily in many other parts of the trail that are much more uneven. In my mind that would mean he would have been going quite a bit slower than the rest of the team and perhaps lagging far behind. If I remember correctly there were no witnesses to his fall and it was some time before it was discovered what had happened to him. It is hard to imagine someone in camp 4 watching Jack for the chance to off him yet if they were, that was the perfect opportunity to follow behind him and at the right moment nudge him gently into the void. I would be interested to know if the SAR team was interviewed to ascertain Jacks condition leading up to his death and his level of inebriation. Perhaps it was divine intervention that led him to take that fall but given what I stated previously I am far less than certain that it was an accident. Jack was a decent enough human being that he deserves a thorough investigation as to the events that led up to his death.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 17, 2005 - 11:13pm PT
There was two groups that were interested in the "Black Book." The Feds because it could implicate "partners" as well as Pam. The other was Pam's attorney at the time. He came in from out of town in an attempt to find out information as to where the book was. It would have been advantageous from a defense stand point to have the book magically disappear.

The book ended up in the Reno Nevada office of the DEA. I have a copy of the letter from the legal office of the Department of the Interior written to Pam's attorney. They give an explanation as to the where abouts of the book. I also have a copy of the pilot's death certificate. It speaks volumes about what may or may not have contributed to the crash.

I realize that for some, or for many, the idea of the mysterious black book and all of the bad juju surrounding it helps magnify the legend(s) surrounding this incident. Right now I'm not going to spend a lot of time dispelling most of them. I think it will be more dramatic when the entire picture is presented in our book. So for now, I think speculation on many of these issues is healthy. Hell, it gives me a chance to hear that one person say something that tells me "yep, you were there weren't you?"

Largo, kinda like the bong story...yes/no?
Ahwahnee Bartender

Big Wall climber
Fog Town
Jun 17, 2005 - 11:32pm PT
A side bar to comments regarding Jack's death or more aptly a related question for Werner. WB: A good friend of mine died on the falls trail at night during a SAR. I think it was the year after Jack's death as I remember it as 1976 but it could of been 1977. He was a lanky/skinny blonde headed kid and I remember his name as Steve. I think he worked with me at the Ahwahnee that summer.

Do you remember a second death on the falls trail during a SAR around that time period? I just recall being shocked that he had died when the following day all my friends told me he walked off the trail at night during a rescue. Appreciate the info if you remember, Theo
WBraun

climber
Jun 17, 2005 - 11:49pm PT
A good friend of mine died on the falls trail at night during a SAR.

Yosar has had only one fatality ever, Jack Dorn.

This is the account from "Accidents in Mountain Rescue Operations"

Experienced rescuer walks off the trail and falls to his death
On May 23, 1977, two climbers, Larry Day (26) and Donald Evans (23), began an attempt to climb the Yosemite Buttress in Yosemite National Park. Although they each had some experience, neither was prepared for bad weather or an overnight bivouac. The two climbers stumbled up the route, and as rain fell, their problems increased. Ultimately, Evans fell and injured himself, and Day called for help. He was told that rescuers would be coming in the morning.
Six rescuers started walking up an established trail up Yosemite Falls trail at 3:30 a.m. the following morning in search of the ill-prepared rock climbers who had cried out in the dark. For an unknown reason, Yosemite volunteer Jack Dorn walked off a well-worn path and plunged 400-600 feet to his death. He had been wearing a portable tape player at the time of the accident.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 18, 2005 - 12:20am PT
WB, that is exactly how Butch F. related the story to me personally. And, he too was there.
WBraun

climber
Jun 18, 2005 - 12:26am PT
Sh-it, Butch was just here about a month or so ago and I forgot to talk to him about this.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 18, 2005 - 12:40am PT
He just sent me a DVD of his presentation in the Valley. Complete with Nevada Barr's narrative and his dissertation on what he calls "Dope Lake." All of his photos from the scene, even a shot of him wearing his Tee Shirt! Great stuff.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 25, 2005 - 11:19pm PT
For those that are semi-following this thread, I thought a little up date might be in order. I want to first thank those that have either called or emailed me with their stories. Many, more than fifteen now have agreed to tell their stories to me personally and quite a few others are doing so via email or phone. As you can well imagine, the stories are a mix of some pretty great stuff, and also repeats. It appears that if everyone didn't go up together on the same day, they sure did it over a fairly short and swift period of time. Probably made a well worn route. I'd not be surprised if after the book is published that a marked trail of some sort might all of a sudden appear. Suggest a name for the route and we might use it.

I may have found one of original Tee Shirts in good condition. I suggested to the owner that he hang on to it until after the book is published. He's going to send photos of it shortly.

GWB called and said he recalled having a nasty cough back then. Never did figure out what gave it to him. I guess it got around.LOL

Stay tuned, but I'll not bore people with daily up dates.

Thanks again to everyone...its greatly appreciated!
Blitzo

Social climber
Earth
Jun 27, 2005 - 02:48pm PT
Licky, Your book is a wonderful idea.
I was living in the Valley then, but never made it to the Lake.
I haven't made it through all the replies on this page yet, so this topic may have already been covered.
There was a rumor that the Tool found a suitecase full of cocaine. Did it exist? What happened to it? Does anyone know?
Blitzo
P.S. I have one of those shirts somewhere. When I find it I'll send you a photo. I have the "GO JUMP IN THE LAKE" shirt, not the original "I GOT MINE"
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2005 - 09:05pm PT
Imagine a case full of coke sitting in a mountain lake from a day to as long as a few weeks. I'd be afraid of stepping in the water lest my feet would go to sleep.

On the other hand, if "Tool" wants to get a hold of me via phone/email addy I'm sure we can both confirm nor deny to what was there. Always makes for some good adventure...js

A photo of the shirt would be great! Thanks in advance.



By the way. One of the four original guys that found the plane wreck was named John Freeman. He and his wife both worked in the park back then. John died 10 years ago. I'd love to get ahold of either his wife or any of the other three that were with him. If anyone knew these people, please pass my personal contact info on to them.

Tanks
Blitzo

Social climber
Earth
Jun 27, 2005 - 09:12pm PT
The Tool is not a person. It is Law enforcement, Feds, whatever. The ones who spoil everyone's fun!

P.S. Jack Dorn and I pounded beers together. He could go the distance! He was a good man.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2005 - 09:15pm PT
Ah...bad me!

Well, then here is the real scoop. The deal was that no coke or guns would be run. If there was any coke on board the plane, it wasn't part what they did on a regular basis, so its more legend than fact.

Now let the "Tool" come forward with their side of the story.
Blitzo

Social climber
Earth
Jun 27, 2005 - 09:23pm PT
I pretty much thought it was bull. The blow would have to be water tight in order to be recovered. I never really bought the story, I just wondered. Thanks.
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 8, 2005 - 05:27pm PT
Probably a quick up date for those that are following the saga.

One of the four guys that originally found the crash and reported it to NPS died about ten years ago. Someone reading this thread new him and put me in touch with his wife. She just contacted me and has agreed to tell me what she remembers.

Thanks again to everyone.
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Jul 8, 2005 - 05:49pm PT
Any idea when this book may come out? can't wait
Licky

Social climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 8, 2005 - 06:10pm PT
Jaybro...probably not for a year or so. Pam says it'll take her at least six months to put together the story about the plane and that side of the story. I'm still hunting down people from the investigation side.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jul 8, 2005 - 08:06pm PT
I met Jack in spring '76. Great guy, always fun to be around. In December he headed east with my partner Bob Anderson. He gave me his address in New York, but I didn't get back there so we met again in the valley in May.

If Werner says he was drunk I believe him but I saw Jack earlier that day and he was walking OK. Plus he KNEW that trail.
I'm always going to wonder....

Glad I named a line on the big stone for him. He lives on in Yosemite lore.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jul 9, 2005 - 01:38am PT
Perhaps you think I'm not there when I don't feel loquacious.

Its too late to hide YOUR woman. (Kids are for Jocko.)
can't say

Social climber
Pasadena CA
Jul 9, 2005 - 06:52pm PT
Hey Juan....BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Wanna bong hit?
Roger Breedlove

Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
Oct 15, 2005 - 08:49pm PT
Yeah, I liked this thread when it was current. I was in and out of the Valley the year the Plane crashed. I barely knew about it. So it was interesting to read some of the individual stories.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2005 - 05:38pm PT
Just a quick up date as its been a while since my last post.

We've talked to a number of people that were there during the event. Not all were among the climbers so we are now getting a quite a different view from those on the outside of the climbing community. I've even managed to find some of the original Park Rangers that were up at the lake as "guards" so no more of the "cargo" was removed.

It appears that pretty much only climbers were the ones that made it up to the plane other than those that originally found it. The image that the "others" had/have of the climbers from back then have been pretty interesting. Nothing negative by the way.

Stay tuned...
Mr_T

Trad climber
Somewhere, CA
Oct 24, 2005 - 06:17pm PT
"With a broad white smile, she lifted her eyes from the bale and swept her skis up and around, reversing direction for the climb uphill. Only then did she notice that on every side, upslope and all the way down to the lake, she was surrounded by lumps of snow, a whole buried herd of them, each no different from this one."

Was this how it happened?
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Oct 24, 2005 - 06:30pm PT
trivia quiz: any one out there remeber this cat named lance lynch?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2005 - 06:42pm PT
Mr T...the only problem to the scenario is that in December of 1976, the Sierra was having a nasty drought. I have reports of people hiking up to the lake (9,000 foot level) in tennis shoes. I also have photos taken at the site that show quite a lot of dirt instead of foots of snow.

But your version sounds better!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 3, 2005 - 02:22am PT
If I could figure out how to post photos to this board I'd start showing some of the stuff that is public domain. Only problem...I can't see a simple click this button to load an image. If someone can help...please.
Forest

Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
Nov 3, 2005 - 02:59am PT
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/forum_help.html
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 3, 2005 - 03:34am PT
Thanks Forest, but what if I'm not linking to a site but a series of jpeg images I have on my 'puter?
Ouch!

climber
Nov 3, 2005 - 03:37am PT
Go to Image Shack and sign up. It's free. Download the quick uplink feature. Upload your photos to Image Shack. Then you can use the ST help. I just put the photos in a folder on my desktop, Right click a photo, click on the send to Image Shack, when it shows up, click the picture to enlarge it, right click it, click properties, highlight the URL, rightclick it, hit copy, then go to the thread on ST. type the tags type[, then img,followed by ] rightclick, hit paste, the URL will show up, then type same tag at end,except put/in front of img, then post it. There are probably easier ways but this is the way I have always done it and you can see what your picture will look like in the thread. Also the size. To post several photos at once, you can line them up in your e-mail or somewhere, then copy and paste the whole mess in at once. You will need to get your pictures on the internet to post them.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 3, 2005 - 04:34am PT
Ok, give me a little while and I'll get the hang of this.
This photo is of the Rangers, after they've scared off the "harvesters" and are now cutting holes in the lake to retrieve the 40 pound bales of dope that are just under the surface.

[url=http://img395.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dopelake15ty.jpg]{{img}}h~~p://img395.imageshack.us/img395/1028/dopelake15ty.th.jpg[/img][/url]
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 3, 2005 - 04:41am PT
This one ought to bring home some warm fuzzies for a few.
A Ranger is using the "chainsaw" to cut a hole in the ice to retrieve one of the 40 pound bales.

http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/9853/dopelake39lp.jpg
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Nov 3, 2005 - 09:04am PT
Hey! That's no ranger....That looks like...could it be? Why...it's Santa Claus!(the red hat, in case the refernece is not obvious)
TradIsGood

Trad climber
Gunks end of country
Nov 3, 2005 - 09:17am PT
Nice catch! And you can just make out the reindeer in the woods if you click on the link without the embedded picture.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 3, 2005 - 10:18pm PT
Here is an interesting shot. Anyone leave their gear when the Tools arrived?

[url=http://img365.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dopelake104qy.jpg]
TradIsGood

Trad climber
Gunks end of country
Nov 3, 2005 - 10:20pm PT
You are close, Licky. Bring up that help again. Pay attention to things like quotation marks.... and some text for people to click on, and the [ /url] at the end.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 3, 2005 - 10:21pm PT
And then of course the Tee Shirt!

http://img169.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dopelake122cu.jpg]
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 3, 2005 - 10:23pm PT
Hum...it works fine for me when I click on the link...whasup..?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 3, 2005 - 10:41pm PT
Ok..one more try. Here's the Tee Shirt

[url=http://img108.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dopelake121sj.jpg]
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 7, 2005 - 04:36am PT
Something for those lurking in the dark.

If it hadn't been for the way the DEA handled the evidence, there might have been a whole hell of a lot of busts.

Just saying....I have it straight from the DEA and its great!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2006 - 06:01pm PT
Anyone know Jack Dorn's real name?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 22, 2006 - 03:20am PT
ok..so maybe no one knows Jack's real name. Anyone have an idea where he was originally from?
Blitzo

Social climber
Earth
Jun 22, 2006 - 07:43am PT
He was from somewhere in up-state New York, at least that's what he told me.
I think it was Syracuse.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 28, 2006 - 01:53am PT
Blitzo, very close. Utica. I've decided that a chapter needs to be dedicated to Jack Dorn. I'd love to talk to you or anyone else that knew him. If you have any stories to share about Jack, please email me so we can get in touch.

If anyone has been following this adventure, the doors keep opening. Currently I am doing research on the history of the plane as well as the pilot & copilot.

Stay tuned for more...
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jun 28, 2006 - 12:44pm PT
Licky. you keep saying that you will take storys without names. If you are trying to write a serious book that seems risky. I certainly understand not publishing names but it would seem that you would have to validate storys and make suer that you are not writeing a bunch of BS from an annomos source.
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Jun 28, 2006 - 03:27pm PT
If you can contact Tim Washik, present whereabouts unknown, he might have some stories for you.
Misha

Trad climber
Woodside, CA
Jun 28, 2006 - 05:57pm PT
When is the book coming out? I'd like a copy!
Anguish

Mountain climber
Jackson Hole Wyo.
Jun 30, 2006 - 12:35am PT
Thin ice, all of this. Find out who did what that year, round up the usual suspects and contact in person. It's called research. There's lots on the record that could make a better story than second-hand information.
"If a load of marijuana dropped from the skies (as it did one spring in the Valley), it was heven-sent."
It was supposed to be soaked in Av fuel, though that never bothered me.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 10, 2006 - 11:50pm PT
So far everyone I have talked to have identified themselves. I have met with them personally or via the phone. Some have asked not to be named in the book, but they have had no problem talking to me. This includes some big time players that have had nothing to do with the climbing scene.

In the over all scheme of things for this book, the events surrounding two or three dozen guys that tell their stories about what they did with their share of the cargo will only fill one if barely two chapters. Many things went on prior to and after the plane crash. Hell, they are STILL going on including what I am learning as of just last week. The Jack Dorn story is probably a good example. Lots of rumor, lots of guessing.

The story is coming together very quickly and to those that have provided insights as to the different facets of this event, thank you. To those that never had anything to do with it, yet to this day speak as if they do, well...you know the real story. I am not out to expose those that didn't nor am I out to expose those that did.

If I can't verify the validity of a story with at least three others that were there at the same time, I'll publish that info as just that. People can read and make their own minds up. But I will not print the info as the gospel. Lets not forget that this event happened 30 years ago. Longer than a lot of those that post on this board are old. People not only forget, they tend to fill in the gaps as best they can. Stories need to make sense when you tell them.

And for those few that seem to think this is nothing more than a legend, you need to spend a little more time reading. This event changed the future for many people. Directly or indirectly, it was one of those events that eventually touched thousands. Just go rent Sylvester Stallone's movie, "Cliff Hanger" and you'll know what I mean.
Wonder

climber
WA
Jul 11, 2006 - 01:25am PT
All know is that this thread is better than the stuff that came out of the lake. It gave alot of people headaches.It made it as far south as Idyllwild & JT.

OT Whatever happen to the canadian team S&B?

PS I got your email, but I know nothing.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 12, 2006 - 05:00pm PT
I have decided to include a chapter that will list all of the great rumors that have been developed into fact over the past 30 years. This in its self will make for great reading.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 12, 2006 - 05:27pm PT
Anguish...check your email
JOEY.F

Trad climber
sebastopol
Jul 12, 2006 - 11:10pm PT
If you find Tim Washik, Ask him if he remembers Brillo and Rick and Joe from South Lettuce and Tomato circa 1978...
Joey F
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2006 - 03:02am PT
Now here is an unusual one. For over thirty years everyone thought that the plane was a Lockheed Lodestar. Thus the name, "Lodestar Lightning"....yes/no? Wrong. The plane was not a Lockheed Lodestar but instead it was a...uh....umm....

Wait until it comes out in print.
TradIsGood

Trad climber
Gunks end of country
Jul 26, 2006 - 01:43pm PT
Gee, it would not have been a Lockheed PV-1, tail N80BD, would it? In flight airframe failure caused by overloading, separation of wings?

Medium bomber of WWII with appearance somewhat similar in size and shape, though considerably more powerful.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2006 - 03:55am PT
Tradls...very close, but the cause of the crash is incorrect.
Robb

Social climber
Under a Big Sky
Jul 27, 2006 - 11:39am PT
I'm guessing wing-root failure via structural flaw.

Hey Licky, you hangin' OK in this heat?
TradIsGood

Trad climber
Gunks end of country
Jul 27, 2006 - 01:51pm PT
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=56017&key=0
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Jul 27, 2006 - 04:01pm PT
^ Flight Purpose listed as "Miscellaneous - Other"
Also - Under Probable Causes:
FACTOR(S) OVERLOAD FAILURE
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2006 - 01:21am PT
The left engine was the key factor, not the wing
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 28, 2006 - 01:34am PT
"I'm-a headin' to Californy, to chop some ice and get some green!"



EDIT: The specs at this link for the Lockheed PV-1 indicate a maximum payload (fuel, crew and cargo) of 10,000 pounds, so carrying 6 tons of headache weed was, apparently, beyond the scope of its intended use.

http://www.luftfahrtmuseum.com/htmi/itf/lopv1.htm


I heard second-hand (from an aerospace engineering professor at Cal Poly) that early aluminum airplanes had fatigue failure problems. Like bending a coat hanger back and forth until it breaks, the wing spars (or whatever) would flex until cracks developed. The vibration from the engines could also do this.

EDIT: The stock engines were two monster radials:
Pratt & Whitney R-2800-31 Double Wasp, 18 cylinders, 2000 hp


This engine powered the F8F Bearcat, which had the record time-to-altitude climb for piston aircraft (and still might).

Only a turboprop would have given better performance.



EDIT: My father was flying his Piper Cherokee from Reno back to Concord (Bay Area) and caught a rather nasty downdraft that caused the plane to lose thousands of feet very quickly. He was able to controllably crash it into the mountain. He and the passenger walked way, totally unhurt. This sort of thing might have contributed to the wing failure.
Robb

Social climber
Under a Big Sky
Jul 28, 2006 - 01:38am PT
I'll venure that the engines weren't stock.
Tom LOL
TradIsGood

Trad climber
Gunks end of country
Jul 28, 2006 - 09:46pm PT
http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/aircraft/Ventura.htm

Suggests slightly higher load carrying ability. The later models could carry 1600 gallons of fuel which is nearly 10,000 pounds.

I suspect that you are right, that there were not 12,000 pounds of weed (dry) on board. But it does seem reasonable that you could put enough in that it was loaded above manual takeoff limits with nearly full fuel tanks. Keep in mind that the flight was in December, so denser air would help takeoff performance. I suppose knowing the terrain around "Baja" would help.

Max range was under 1000 miles so they could have calculated being well under limits for landing with low fuel at end of flight. Weather (especially around mountain tops), loading, and fatigue in a fairly old aircraft might believably result in some sort of airframe failure and separation in flight.

Of course, one could just buy a copy of the full report...
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Jul 28, 2006 - 10:35pm PT
For the life of me I cant find where the cargo is listed as 6 tons. Sounds like a made up figure to me.

I was wrong. I thought it was six tons, but it was 6000 lbs.

This figure is from an article written at the time, which I thought was linked to in this topic. Maybe it was the other, similar topic.

The gummit said they retrieved between 3400 and 4500 lbs, so the article said that left at least 1500 pounds (at $400 per pound, back then) unaccounted for. This is where the 6000 lb figure came from.


I'm waiting for someone to deduce that the weed was alot heavier because it was wet, so the plane crashed 8-)
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2006 - 01:50am PT
Just a quick note for the speculators. They made the trip three times each month. The load each time was known and accounted for.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2006 - 04:37am PT
Another interesting point. Yes, the plane started off as a Lockheed PV-1 Ventura, but was "slightly" modified. It had a very interesting if not colorful history prior to becoming a drug running aircraft.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2006 - 01:03am PT
To those that I met with today, much thanks for the stories, the honesty, and above all else, the trust. I'll be back in a few weeks or so and give all a heads up. More photos this time.

thanks again!
WBraun

climber
Oct 20, 2006 - 01:47am PT
Met the Mr Licky today. He is a very nice man.

Thanks for coming by Licky ..........
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 20, 2006 - 02:29am PT
WB, yasureyabetchya...catchya next time

Remember, its all in the lips
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2006 - 03:25am PT
Another up date is due for those that are following this thread.

Today I interviewed the guy that found the wing in the trees that launched the event. When he saw it, he thought he was looking at a man made fence, at the 8,700 foot level in the middle of the Sierra wilderness. The wing was on edge and looked completely out of place. It was white and had it been laying flat on the ground, this guy might have walked right by it since he saw it from quite a distance from the trail they were on.

I also now have some great photos of the lake and the melee that went on during Easter Weekend. So if anyone was up at the lake at that time you will probably appreciate the photos.

Stay tuned...
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2006 - 04:23am PT
This is a tough day for the families and friends of the pilots that crashed into Lower Merced Pass Lake. It is now the 30th anniversary of the plane crash and their death, December 9, 1976.

On a lighter note, It is also the 30th anniversary for those that found the plane and its cargo that helped launch the event that made the future for quite a few others. Whether it was simply purchasing that van and a ton of eight track tapes or providing the fodder for a book/movie, today is the day that sits heavy in quite a few minds.

If the wing that Ron Lykins had found was laying flat on the ground, things would have been very different for many today. Careers would not have been launched as they were.

I know this is a climbing forum, but everyone ought to stop and think about how much this event figured into the advancement of of the big wall craft.

Just saying...
NeverSurfaced

Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
Dec 9, 2006 - 05:05pm PT
Hey Rick,

How's the book coming?

Chad
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2006 - 12:27am PT
Chad, it moves at different speeds. I now know what they mean about writer's block. It seems like some days I can't figure out where the "any key" is and other days I'm up to 3am punching away like its my last day.

Finally have the entire military and civilian history of the aircraft. That in itself was no small feat. Next week I talk to the guy that was instrumental in introducing the pilots to the partners.
Chaz

Trad climber
So. Cal.
Dec 10, 2006 - 12:29am PT
Take your time.

I'd rather you wring it out good than fast.

Don't forget to let us know when you finish and where we can get a copy.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2006 - 12:42am PT
You bet!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 13, 2006 - 03:15am PT
In early February of 1977 a guy showed up possibly in Camp 4 one night that told a bunch of guys sitting around a camp fire, what he described as "hard core climbers", about the plane, its location, and its cargo. If there is anyone that can recall his presence, please drop me a line.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2007 - 04:27am PT
Just talked to the #2 guy in the "organization". Yep, he is still around. The #1 guy was found in his car in not a too friendly condition. The #2 guy has stories about the plane, the loads, the trips and the money that are amazing. To think that those of you....and you know of whom I speak....participated in an adventure of the magnitude that was will probably boggle the mind.
hobo_dan

Trad climber
Minnesota
Jan 18, 2007 - 10:09am PT
this is the best post ever! I am loving these stories.
I'm only about 60 into them and I am dying to read the rest.
Total entertainment-
Ouch!

climber
Jan 18, 2007 - 05:18pm PT
frisbee

climber
{this page left blank intentionally}
Jan 18, 2007 - 05:43pm PT
I'm not sure if I should laugh or not, out of respect for the dead....but damn is that a funny PS effort!!
Ricardo Carlos

Trad climber
Off center, CO.
Jan 18, 2007 - 11:01pm PT
Wasn't coke smaller amount, vial? Found with B Book?

Not all stash was fuel soaked?

Not all stashed stash was just stashed close and only under snow?

How many were arrested hiking out? Think maybe illegal search of back pack was the out?
When I first found this tread I thought I was east No. Conway, Gunk’s and few other places till infected toe would not allow EBs. But that was 78 Peers , Loeks remember ?
Just remember asking ranger from dif. Park what said stuff was. Her reply was don't you know? Plane, lake ect. I arrived in the valley same day the feds did. As if I had not learned my lessons in Baja 1970 and St.Tom 73. For me it would have been just another repeat in 77, probably worse. For me climbing got me away from what not.
So my worry would be the IRS
I know a guy who lost 4 mil in one fell swoop. They took every think but his licenses to practice and the house his wife claimed. Smart gal didn’t claim Cliff house or Smith River house but sh#t shack condo in IB to watch floaters at Tijuana slews
IRS knows no limit on Tax evasion or do they. Could really FK a lot of families now. Not just individuals living in vans. But I really wasn’t there and even what I heard first person is hearsay
Ballaroama

Trad climber
so.cal
Jan 19, 2007 - 11:37pm PT
Bump, bring on those great details Licky!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2007 - 02:14am PT
I now have a photo of the pilots getting busted in Salt Lake City by armed DEA agents. I'll write in the book about the event. Another one of those stories that makes you shake your head and say, "You GOT to be kidding"!
Wonder

climber
WA
Jan 20, 2007 - 02:48am PT
Licky, I really admire your effort, but I still wonder if your not just sturring up the pot.





Oops, did i just say that.
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
Jan 20, 2007 - 12:48pm PT
I got to the Valley early in the spring of 1977, in order to do some ice climbing, in preparation for a planned trip to Europe that summer. I was amazed to find Yabo paying for a multi-course dinner in the Mountain Room , instead of his usual scarfing next door in the cafeteria. Snapped this shot on the Half Dome trail:


When we got to Europe that summer, we told the yarn to Ken Wilson, the editor of Mountain Magazine, who loved it. He published a short summary in the news section of the magazine, calling the incident “like something out of an Alistair Maclean novel.” Still one of the most improbable tales from that time.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2007 - 03:41pm PT
Wonder: But of course I am! How else would anyone come forward and provide the kind of stuff I need to put this story together? Since the book will be an historical account of the event, all will be factual. I will however have a chapter dedicated to all of the rumors and hear say stories, but it will be identified as such.

The trail sign photo is amazing! These are the things that make the story great.
Thanks for posting the photo...check your email
Wonder

climber
WA
Jan 20, 2007 - 06:09pm PT
Licky, well you know I'll buy one when it comes out.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 21, 2007 - 02:43am PT
I just came across a photo of the guys making their first "hike" across the border with full expedition packs. They did this before they bought their first of five planes. Also have a shot later on of them with all of their planes.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jan 21, 2007 - 06:33am PT
Jack Dorn was from Utica NY.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 21, 2007 - 01:15pm PT
Ron, do you know anything else about Jack Dorn? If so, drop me an email.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2007 - 02:07am PT
Is there anyone that can direct me to either a website or a physical location that can give me the weather conditions at Lower Merced Pass Lake on December 8/9, 1976? I need a source other than "Mike told me that someone said...." if you know what I mean.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jan 29, 2007 - 02:37am PT
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/ncdc.html
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2007 - 03:14am PT
Ed..thanks. I appreciate the link
Majid_S

Mountain climber
Bay Area
Jan 29, 2007 - 04:39am PT
Licky, Here is some info for you of FAA site. I never knew your 1977 project was PV1.

[url=http://imageshack.us]{{img}}h~~p://img261.imageshack.us/img261/8876/a22353es4pv1mp6.jpg[/img][/url]


NTSB Identification: OAK77FA015
14 CFR Part 91 General Aviation
Event occurred Thursday, December 09, 1976 in YOSEMITE, CA
Aircraft: LOCKHEED PV-1, registration: N80BD

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FILE DATE LOCATION AIRCRAFT DATA INJURIES FLIGHT PILOT DATA
F S M/N PURPOSE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3-4169 76/12/9 YOSEMITE,CA LOCKHEED PV-1 CR- 2 0 0 MISCELLANEOUS COMMERCIAL, FL.INSTR.,
TIME - UNK/NR N80BD PX- 0 0 0 OTHER AGE 29, 5000 TOTAL HOURS,
DAMAGE-DESTROYED OT- 0 0 0 UNK/NR IN TYPE,
INSTRUMENT RATED.
DEPARTURE POINT INTENDED DESTINATION
BAJA,MEXICO RENO,NV
TYPE OF ACCIDENT PHASE OF OPERATION
AIRFRAME FAILURE: IN FLIGHT IN FLIGHT: OTHER
PROBABLE CAUSE(S)
MISCELLANEOUS - UNDETERMINED
FACTOR(S)
AIRFRAME - WINGS: WING ATTACHMENT FITTINGS,BOLTS
MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - OVERLOAD FAILURE
MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - SEPARATION IN FLIGHT
MISSING AIRCRAFT - LATER RECOVERED
REMARKS- RECOVERY DATE 6/14/77.TRANSPORTATION OF NARCOTICS.


Aircraft (FAA)
Manufacturer: Lockheed
Model: PV-1 Search all Lockheed PV-1
Year built: 1959
Serial Number (C/N): 5375
Mode S Code: 52557641
Aircraft Type: Fixed wing multi engine
Amateur-Built: No
Number of Seats: 10
Number of Engines: 2
Engine Type: Reciprocating
Engine Manufacturer and Model: P & W R-2800 SERIES
Owner (FAA)
Registration Type: Corporation
Owner: Red River Ranch Inc
Address: Fort Lauderdale, FL 33310
United States
Region: Southern
Top
Status (FAA)
Certification Issued: 1976-10-12
Air Worthiness Test: Unknown
Last Action Taken: 1977-01-14
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2007 - 02:32pm PT
Majid...Yep, it was "originally" a PV-1 Ventura. But not when it crashed. I appreciate the homework you did, good job. Guess you can appreciate what kind of hot rod this plane must have been? By the way, did you notice there were 10 seats on board for a fighter bomber? Interesting.

Here is an actual photo of the plane during W.W. II

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/2875/ventura2232ta1.jpg
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Jan 29, 2007 - 08:44pm PT
Is "Overload" the plane carrying too much wieght, or overload of stress on the wing, or something else?
Ragz

climber
Tartarus, black hole of the internet
Jan 29, 2007 - 10:52pm PT
HAppiegirl, In this scenario the failure occured in flight. The term overload is use to describe a failure mode, not a physical state. Although, considering what it was transporting, it is likely that the plane was above gross (overloaded in lay terms).

Aircraft can be overloaded, above the maximum gross weight, but in flight failures can also be the result of flight conditions. As was proposed, the failure may have been the result of turbulence. This, in turn, results in the structural limits of the aircraft being exceeded when turbulence is excessive. The Sierra can be extremely turbulent under the right conditions.

It is also possible that the aircraft, as old as it was, just reached it's structural fatigue life. This varies with each aircraft. The only way to mitigate the fatigue is to do regular, and occasionally extensive maintence and rebuilding. Remeber Aloha Flight 243? It exceeded it's compression and decompression cycle limits, and blew it's top.

The FAA usually does a more intensive analysis of crashes. This appears to be worded somewhat vaguely. Maybe intentionally.

In looking at the report above, the FAA identify WING ATTACHMENT FITTINGS,BOLTS , this is as specific as it gets. Most aircraft require inspection of these attach points on a regular basis. Some even go so far as to require replacement at regular intervals. It's not a common thing to have these just fail. More likely something was going on in flight. I'd be intersted to know the orientation of the plane in the lake. Did it com in, in the direction of travel? If these pilots were in IFR conditions, it is possiblr that they lost control and entered into an all too common, high speed spiral. This will lead to structural failure as loads on the airframe are exceeded quite easily.
Majid_S

Mountain climber
Bay Area
Jan 29, 2007 - 11:10pm PT
Overload means too much stress on AC now here is what I got on this model AC. Normal range 1660 miles, Weights: 20,197 pounds empty, 31,077 pounds loaded, 34,000 pounds maximum.

This AC took off from BAJA toward Reno with full tank of gas of 1600 gal x @7 lbs = 11000 lbs worth of fuel then max load was 34000 lbs. 11000+21000 = 32000 lbs and still under the max load. If they loaded this AC with 2500 lbs worth of goodies then it was overloaded at take off but by the time they got near Yos they had used near 70% of the gas and they were ok however, my guess is that they had more than 2500 lbs of goodies may be near 4000 lbs and they calculated the fuel /destination to max out their load to land in Reno with almost no gas, may be even they even took the 10 seats out to add another 200 lbs.

This AC was a bomber with cargo door right below the main section and I am guessing they were going to fly slow and at low alt to drop the cargo some where in desert and then land at Reno as clean as baby's face, also I been on few AC recoveries where smaller plane crashed and there was not any thing left of AC to recognize but the clock.
According to one of the stories, dudes were pulling goodies out of AC crash site which tells me that AC was not involved in major impact otherwise they could not recover much. I think pilot knew he had a problem and he was trying to get to lower Alt and land but flying IFR over 13000 feet mountain range, you are SOL in finding a landing spot . The wings broke off while he was descending to lower alt and he crashed very close to ground. That is what I think it happened.
WBraun

climber
Jan 30, 2007 - 01:33am PT
I thought it was snowing that night while it was flying around? Can't remember to well. But I vaguely remember the weather was pretty inclement during that time.

The guy who knows is on this forum ........
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Jan 30, 2007 - 01:46am PT
oh you tease...
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 30, 2007 - 01:51am PT
Regarding the plane's age and condition.

First the plane wasn't what you think so its age and condition didn't play into this event.

As for the plane being overloaded for its capability. Again, the plane wasn't what everyone thought it was, so its ability to carry what it had on board (I have the true quanity that was loaded by way of the load master that over saw the loading) was well within its capability.

And for the weather, well it didn't figure into the event.

Majid...I'm going to have to add your speculation to the chapter on rumors and wild stories. Sorry guy, but you aren't even close. But keep trying, you have a knack for the yarn.
Majid_S

Mountain climber
Bay Area
Jan 30, 2007 - 02:19am PT
Liky
Were they going to drop the load or just land and hand deliver it?

Also if load was in range of AC then PV was much heavier at take of then over Yos when it used near 70% of it gas . You do not think weather was a big factor ?

I just do not think that he was flying that high, I bet he was flying closer to ground. Do you know if they located the wings near the AC if not how far they were ?

Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jan 30, 2007 - 02:23am PT
There is a novel very loosely based on the events of this crash. It is called Vortex, by David Harris. Published in 1990, and short-listed for the Boardman-Tasker Prize.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 30, 2007 - 02:34am PT
Obviously I'm not going to tell the whole story here before I go to print, but some of your thoughts are getting close. Some of the really key issues have been posted on this thread by myself and others. You really have to turn into a detective and read each and every word...there is evidence there to be grabbed. I'll tell you when you are really off base.


Thanks for the lead on Vortex. I talked to David Harris when I first started researching this subject. He told me the story behind his book. Very interesting how he got his information.

Ragz

climber
Tartarus, black hole of the internet
Jan 31, 2007 - 10:13pm PT
So you didn't answer my question, Was the aircraft and debris path oriented in the direction of travel?
Don't think that gives the story away, but based on what you just added, I can make some good guesses.

First the plane wasn't what you think so its age and condition didn't play into this event...As for the plane being overloaded...was well within its capability.

Your are being a bit ambiguous here in the use of the word "capability". I suppose for good reason. However, and I speak as one who has done warbird restoration, the components in the FAA offcial report are not likely to have been modified, maybe replaced. I am not suggesting that other stuctural mods weren't made that could increase the gross weight, as there are many. If, in fact, the wing attach bolts did fail, and the aircraft was within it's operating envelope (weight/CG) then what we have left is pilot error or incapacitaion, and weather conditions. This resulted in the aircraft being operated outside the limits of it's flight envelope, in one way or another.

So humor me, what was the orientation of the crash path?
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Jan 31, 2007 - 10:40pm PT
Well didn't Ouch already draw up a diagram of what *really* happened??? Werner lassoed that plane like George on "It's a Wonderful Life" promised he'd do for Mary to give her the moon!
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Jan 31, 2007 - 10:52pm PT
I suspect #46 would have some unique perspectives to bring to bear on what really happened.
Majid_S

Mountain climber
Bay Area
Feb 1, 2007 - 02:34am PT
Licky
I just wonder, this PV-1 was flying in IFR under FAA radar from BAJA but they were able to fly from better path such as central valley or fly over water to SF then make a right turn and go to Reno but they did not.

If he had 2500 lbs of goodies then he could not drop it via bomb bay because max drop limit at bomb bay was 1600 lbs so cargo was inside the plane. FAA was watching these guys cause they wanted to fly under FAA radar or IFR, well back in 1977 FAA was not using the modern radar system so there were times when they could not see the plane in radar or as they call it, shadows in radar . If PV was flying over sierras in winter at low alt ( just above the ground ) to create shadow on purpose cause then may be they wanted to land some place before RENO drop the load and take off again using the few minute of shadow ( sort of un noticed) in FAA radar and land in Reno clean. Just a thought.


Ouch!

climber
Feb 1, 2007 - 02:57am PT
sling512

Trad climber
Chicago
Feb 1, 2007 - 01:02pm PT
Ouch, is that Baba in the lake fishin out the goods?

-sling
Majid_S

Mountain climber
Bay Area
Feb 1, 2007 - 01:11pm PT
Ouch
make the photos in motion format
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Feb 1, 2007 - 03:06pm PT
oh...I see I was wrong. It wasn't Werner puling the plane down. It was Bear 46 under the instruction of Werner....
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Feb 1, 2007 - 03:12pm PT
Yeah, Werner calls the shots! Ha ha, I crack myself up ... because I am so easily amused.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2007 - 07:43pm PT
The route you guys are speculating about was as follows.

They flew west out of Mexico and north along the US coast, within US controlled airspace and on radar. The ATC reported that the plane had disappeared off of the radar at Santa Barbara. This was when they turned north and dropped down below radar level. From Santa Barbara they flew toward Reno where they were to land at Black Rock, the site of the now Burning Man event. They would off load there, refuel, and return to Mexico for their final load and then return home.

If you take a look at the map you can see that Lower Merced Pass Lake is in a very close line along the path between Santa Barbara and Reno. This trip was not unusual for them nor was it new. However, if you are an experienced pilot, you can appreciate that they did this in the dark and didn't attract the attention of US Customs, DEA, or the military.
Dynoho

Sport climber
Huntington Beach, CA
Feb 1, 2007 - 09:37pm PT
OK, enough teasing....

When is the book coming out? This is a must have. Are you getting close?
Jim Wilcox

Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
Feb 1, 2007 - 11:12pm PT
Kinda thought it was high time that this thread finally got a face.
chopper pilot Jon

Doesn't look the sort to panic easily, musta gone down with a fight

Last row-5th from the right
Darnell

Big Wall climber
Chicago
Feb 2, 2007 - 12:28am PT
I support the right to bear arms, er, um, I mean,. I support the right to arm bears. including the Chicago Bears.
Ragz

climber
Tartarus, black hole of the internet
Feb 2, 2007 - 12:51am PT
You still haven't offered a response to my two previous questions about debris path orientation.
I was more interested in the real CAUSE of the crash.
Whatever, keep it a mystery. If there is an answer I guess I'lll have to read about it.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 2, 2007 - 01:13am PT
Jim...Yep, that's him. Check your email

Ragz...I think in my discription of the route and the location of Lower Merced Pass Lake you have everything there. Unless I'm missing something, let me know.
skitch

Trad climber
Logan, UT
Feb 2, 2007 - 02:46pm PT
First off I can't believe anyone would blame the pilots for the lost lifes of the people who died long after the wreck of the plane, first off it was those individuals choices to begin selling drugs in the first place. Look at largo, his life doesn't appear to be negatively affected by it. Personal choices are just that.

Now what i intended to write, you should go around Yosemite and ask a few of those people, I worked for guy at the Yoesemite garage this summer who was there in the seventies and claimed to have smoked some of that nasty weed. he claimed it was soaked with jet fuel and wasn't even worth it. Anyways there are quite a few lifers around there, and almost all of them used to smoke, so that would be a good place to get more stories from non-climbers.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 2, 2007 - 03:50pm PT
Skitch...good suggestion, thanks. Next time I'm in the Valley I'll poke around
VW

Big Wall climber
CA
Feb 7, 2007 - 11:27am PT
Give it a rest chainsaw. Your caricature of this lurching, introverted, paranoid 70s climber is stale. We've all had it rough at times. Some of us still do. People want to hear about this stuff. Its the golden lore of an amazing sport. Its what grinds the wheels of imagination, propels our search on high ever farther, and motivates us toward the mystery that we are up there for in the first place. There is nothing like the hallowed, crazy, mystical, mostly ridiculous, often tragic, ever surprising history of the greatest sport on Earth. How we are all connected, through this ethereal thread of story and circumstance, is what makes us climbers - through and through - heart, mind and soul. This is a great tale. Let them write it. I'll read it.
mission

Social climber
boulder,co
Feb 7, 2007 - 11:45am PT
I heard a good story about the Crash Buds when I was climbing it Chamonix in the summer of '78. Give me a call and I'll tell you what I can remember.

Thom Engelbach
303 818 2111
bruce800

Big Wall climber
Colorado Springs, CO
Feb 7, 2007 - 02:00pm PT
Yea I remember. I was cimbing there just after the crash. Lots of climbers had pot and were trading is for climbing gear, tools, and even cars.
B-
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Feb 7, 2007 - 06:29pm PT
Licky,

This sure is an interesting thread. The story is a very fascinating one and should be told. It's kind of a climbing mythology and lore that just so happens to be true. It will be nice to know the full story eventually.

Someone you should get in touch with, and she is a writer for Mammoth Times, her initials are C.R. She was a neighbor of mine on Mustang Mesa, near Bishop, for the longest time but she is sadly no longer. However, she still writes for MT. She told me about the old time truck that she and her boyfriend still have, and how it was some how involved with the big infamous event in '77. She knows I climb and would be familiar with the story, and she just told me this one day out of the blue when we were chatting outside. She is a great lady and a very good writer. She is the one who writes most of the more progessive articles for the MT. We definately see eye to eye, politically and environmentally. She would be someone to talk to for sure. She is one brave soul. You should read some of her articles. She is not afraid to speak truth to power.

Well, you obviuosly know what ultimately brought the plane down, and I don't blame you for not wanting to give the whole story away. But you said that it wasn't the weather . . .

"And for the weather, well it didn't figure into the event."

You ultimately know, but my speculation would be the "Sierra Wave" might have brought the plane down. The number of flights that have been brought down over the years in the Sierras due to the Sierra Wave and the rotor clouds of turbulence associated with these massive wave events and the often lenticular clouds that form as a result, is quite high. What many people don't realize is that they are more frequent during the winter months, and it can happen day or night and even on clear weather and sunny "blue-bird" days. These conditions can easily lead to structural failure of aircraft. It is like the hand of God swatting a fly out of the sky.

I encourage everyone to read the story of the research done on the Sierra Wave in Bishop during the '40s and '50s. There are historical markers now at Bishop Airport commemmorating these well known and famous studies. They studied the Sierra Wave by sailplanes/gliders! To surf the Sierra Wave in a glider is a dream of most sailplane pilots. Not an experience for the faint of heart. The following book tells the entire story . . .

The Book to read is: "Exploring the Monster: Mountain lee waves : the aerial elevator" by Robert F Whelan (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Exploring-monster-Mountain-aerial-elevator/dp/1891118323/sr=1-1/qid=1170890041/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-6338876-7688405?ie=UTF8&s=books

You can also buy the book at Spellbinders in Bishop. It's a great read. You will come to appreciate and respect the Sierra Wave more and understand the massive awe inspiring forces involved in it when you read all about the study done in Bishop.

As I said, many a plane flight in the Sierras that have crashed, came down as a result of the Sierra Wave. Sometimes it is an invisible killer, and you'll never know until it hits you.

Klimmer
Off-Width Loving Crack Whore

Trad climber
SLO
Feb 7, 2007 - 06:52pm PT
The first time I heard about this was on my first true Valley Trip. Of course it was mostly getting drunk and wobbling up Swan Slab, but I met a guy nicknamed "Spew" who claimed to be hanging in the high country with a local Valley hardman that has the initials T.T.

"Spew" claimed to have witnessed the actual crash and that he was one of the guys on scene first pulling out bales of "Acupolco Gold".

He also claimed that this was the story that inspired "Cliffhanger"

His whereabouts... somewhere in Arizona

Disclaimer: He also claimed to be Chonngo Chucks personal belay slave and that he would gladly haul for anyone if they paid him in King Cobra.
Wonder

climber
WA
Feb 7, 2007 - 11:05pm PT
Rokjox, What you posted above makes total since. I was living in Idyllwild at the time. The first shipments were cool, but then the rest started showing up. we didnt get alot of the good stuff.
Wonder

climber
WA
Feb 7, 2007 - 11:43pm PT
rokjox, do I know you?
duke of badness

Sport climber
port orchard,wa
Feb 8, 2007 - 12:31am PT
To the people writing the book about the 1977 Lodestar... I am very much attached and have known I would need and wanted to get in touch with Pam Glisky for many years. It is unbelievable that I am even here writing, as I am... I have a message to her and one question for her. M. Costello said something many years ago and I believe he, at the time, told me the truth---but to verify by Pam only. My phone # for Pam only is 360-265-4952.
Wonder

climber
WA
Feb 8, 2007 - 01:17am PT
I'm freaked!! He takes the same ferry as me. Serious!
Wonder

climber
WA
Feb 8, 2007 - 01:22am PT
No, I didnt say that. I'm moving next month.
factor2

climber
Feb 8, 2007 - 01:17pm PT
If you write the book I will buy it.
And I will give it to my family for birthdays and chanuka.
Recommend it to all of my friends and enemies.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2007 - 01:04am PT
Klimmer, thanks, I've talked to CR.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
concord, california
Feb 9, 2007 - 01:10am PT
Licky: in case you're not already aware of it, Lynn Hill devoted a chapter of her book "Climbing Free" to the plane crash.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2007 - 03:51am PT
TT...thanks, yep we knew about the book. Pam has talked to Lynn.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 19, 2007 - 03:43am PT
Just interviewed the #2 guy in the drug operation. Man, the stories he told!

Here's one. They made 14 flights from Mexico to California in 14 days. The size of the "pile" that they moved was 4'x3'x75'. 40 pound bales.

You would not believe how he lives and what he does in his spare time! Amazing!
Jim Wilcox

Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
Feb 19, 2007 - 10:19am PT
Solitary?

Pushups?

Am I warm???
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 19, 2007 - 12:51pm PT
Not even close...no one ever spent a night in jail
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Feb 19, 2007 - 01:04pm PT
Does he go by the nickname of El Presidente or something similar??? hahaha.
Mt Lovr

Boulder climber
Mar 2, 2007 - 01:47am PT
I've really enjoyed reading this thread from the beginning and I look forward to buying the book. However, the worry of what the cops/Feds/IRS whoever might do to those climbers who found and "liberated" the weed all those years ago seems like silly Baby Boomer paranoia. It was 1,500 pounds of shitty Mexican schwag, full of seeds and baled, for crying out loud. Speculation and remarks about the quality after the crash are kinda moot, 'cause it was low-grade to begin with -- and I'm sure the lake and AV fuel didn't improve the taste or high. And at $400 a pound? Do the math! It would only be $60,000 divided by however many people helped themselves -- truly a pittance in the drug trade. The notion of "talking to lawyers" and worrying about "the man" coming knocking because of comments posted in this forum are laughable.
Kinda disappointing that it wasn't quality California-grown sinsemilla, which today is worth $4,000 a pound wholesale at the many legal cannabis dispensaries in Cali.
And Chainsaw? I thought he was a made-up, DARE rhetoric-spouting joke character until his identity was revealed. And then it was apparent he was kind of a made-up joke character, but a real one...
Ballaroama

Trad climber
so.cal
Mar 2, 2007 - 02:30am PT
Snark! Yep, Chainsaw is a fool. A few comments about your post, good California green bud did exist back in those days but valued at around $800-$1000 per lbs. In very rare cases very high quality sensi (it was almost all sensi in those days) it was sold for more than $1000 per lbs. It went way up in price in the eighties when when different strains came into play. $4000 lbs didn't come about for many years after the crash. 1500 pounds? No, I think you will find it a much bigger load when you read the book.

Also the quality of the crash buds varied due to water damage and aviation fuel. Not all of it was full of seeds typical of low grade Mexican. It sounds like you smoked some so I don't wish to lecture you in any way but I remember differently, it doesn't matter but my two cents had to get in there.
bachar

Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
Mar 2, 2007 - 10:28am PT
Yeah - some o' dat stuff was bunk but some was pretty killer. Also, I know a dude who was selling it for $800 a pound. Weed wasn't that expensive at that time either.

That dude bought a 1968 VW van that was like almost new for $1968 and a top-o'da-line Masi racing bicycle for $800, which was like dee most expensive bike you could get in dem daze. Crazy how times change....

Oh yeah that chainsaw guy was cool (still is)...heh heh
rmuir

Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Mar 2, 2007 - 01:45pm PT
Yeah, JB, that was a pretty sweet Masi that that guy bought. Purchased with some serendipitous stash, I unna stand...

Back then, there were quite a few climbers riding fine cycles. Man, half the climbers I knew in Berkeley back then were riding a branded Colñago, Pogliaghi, Masi, Cinelli, Bianchi, or (even) a Schwinn Paramount! Expensive bikes, every one. Where did we ever get that kind of cash?

Were all those guys dealing drugs at Indian Rock, back then?
G_Gnome

Boulder climber
Sick Midget Land
Mar 2, 2007 - 02:53pm PT
I remember that guys new red and white VW van. It was NICE!
Albion

Trad climber
Bristol, UK
Mar 2, 2007 - 02:57pm PT
Mt Lovr says "do the math"...

well, 1500lbs x $400 = $600,000

or did I miss something?

enthralling read anyway
Sewelllymon

climber
Sierra Madre, CA
Mar 2, 2007 - 03:52pm PT
hey Ballorama is back!! dude you've been way too quiet as of late.

and yea- that Chainsaw. Trying hard to insure the purity of the Youth of America. or sumthing...
Jefe'

Boulder climber
Bishop
Mar 3, 2007 - 10:25am PT
Lodestar Lightning. Remember the van and bike.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 4, 2007 - 08:46pm PT
The project is running very well. Lots of great stories from people that are constantly coming out of the woodwork. Just when I think I have just about everything I need, a bunch more doors open up.

I have a photo of the pilot on his first hike across the border with his backpack full. He was on his way to making enough to buy his first plane.
Majid_S

Mountain climber
Bay Area
Mar 4, 2007 - 08:57pm PT
$600.000 back then
In today's money that is $16 million

Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 4, 2007 - 09:16pm PT
At one point they made 14 flights in 14 days!

Now recalculate.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 5, 2007 - 02:43am PT
Weschrist...nothing worse than facts!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 5, 2007 - 10:48pm PT
Ballorama...hey, I'm sorry I missed your post. Bad me......

Hope all is well...drop a dime on me sometime
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Mar 5, 2007 - 11:06pm PT
Wes,right about that time(I was thinking 78, but, memory, WTF) we drove south from Laramie to see Bob and the Wailers @ redrocks. En route we heard on the radio that the concert was canceled 'cause Mr Marley broke his foot! instead, we visited a friend in Golden and had chinese food at some place that you could see a cap of rocky cliffs on table mesa(?)from.

"I hiked up there, didn't see any climbing, it's not as good as it looks," my friend or his brother said.


also missed the plane crash goldrush by timing of college spring break;friends that stayed in camp another week got the bird's eye lowdown, so to speak.

So close, so often.


sorry, all, excuse the drift.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 28, 2007 - 03:22am PT
For those following the thread, here is an addition.

I just talked to Jack Dorn's brother and sister-in-law. Very nice people and judging by what has been said about Jack, it runs in the family. I'll be meeting with them in the near future and if anything interesting comes up, I'll be sure and post it. I know many here knew Jack and were friends with him.

Stay tuned
Oli

Trad climber
Fruita, Colorado
Apr 29, 2007 - 04:40pm PT
I have followed this thread somewhat, not feeling the need to get involved. I will say, though, that much has not be said. And much may never be said, for one reason or another. Even with all these entries, only the surface has been tapped.

rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Apr 30, 2007 - 06:56pm PT
It's been two years since the first post in this thread. That's a lot of time for researching a book (I've never written a book so I'm guessing). Any idea if there will ever actually be a book about this? When, two more years?

Dave
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Apr 30, 2007 - 08:42pm PT
2 yrs is nothing
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2007 - 01:20pm PT
This posting isn't intended to be a rant, so if anyone takes it as such I apologize.

Oli...

If you have followed this thread from top to bottom, one of the things you will notice is that many that made the trek up to the plane thirty years ago post on SuperTopo today. The purpose of my thread is not to tell a story, it is to ask people to contact me with their stories so I can research the Yosemite experience surrounding the event. There is so much more to this story than what went on after the plane crashed and people made off with the dope. I spelled this out pretty clearly in my first posting. Since then so many have contacted me and provided me with a wealth of information that as the days progressed it seemed to me that it was only fair to post bits and pieces that I have uncovered. I do it so people can recall things that they have forgotten. Many have either responded to some of the stories or the photos that I have posted. It has worked out very well for me as well as them. Every time I interview someone I usually bring to them photos and stories about the event that they had no idea about. The exchange of information has been both directions. Take the story of Jack Dorn. His family knew nothing about the plane crash and its contents much less of Jack's involvement. Even the pilot's wife Pam has been learning about the event from angles that she never knew about.

Rectorsquid...

I am not a writer by profession. I am an ex-mechanical engineer turned sales guy. I imagine that if I were making a living at cranking out novels I probably would have had at least one if not two finished by now as well as a screen play. Daily I spend anywhere from one to six hours doing phone and Internet research. I have traveled to three states to interview people face to face rather than just make a phone call.

All of my facts on this story must have at least three sources to confirm events that have been told to me by people. Printed documents have to have the name of the author, date, and the source of the publication. I have been given copies of newspaper articles that don't provide any of this. To research where this article came from and who wrote it thirty years ago is not an easy task considering I have my regular job to perform.

During the past two years I have found out many things about this event that had I gone with the original story and not spent any time really researching it, when it hit the printer you and many others would read it and know that it was just not true. If you read other accounts of this plane crash, and I don't mean just one, you will start to see just what I am talking about. Lets not forget about the stories from people that feel the need to participate even though they had nothing to do with it. Those stories have led me on some pretty wild goose chases. My intent is to tell the story and not expose people.

If you talk to one person about the event you will get a time line that they perceive as correct since they are speaking in the first person. They were there and remember it like it was yesterday. Talk to ten more and you quickly become aware that there are conflicting bits of information.

There will be one chapter dedicated to the rumors. Some of those will get a wink and a nod from those that have told the story from these angles thinking they heard the story from someone that knew. Or, as the old line goes, "I knew a guy that knew a guy that said he was there."
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
May 25, 2007 - 01:28pm PT
Great 300th post, Licky!

I look forward to reading your book, and I'm glad you're taking your time.
I know it will be good.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2007 - 01:30pm PT
Thanks HK, I appreciate it.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2007 - 01:37pm PT
Just thought of a great story as a follow up on what I had just posted.

I have been contacted by a guy claiming his cousin spent time in Viet Nam with the pilot back in the late 60s and knew him well. After three emails from him I began to notice a couple of unusual consistencies in his text. He always started his sentences off with a lower case letter. He always used only the letter "u" instead of spelling out "you." And the more he wrote the worse his grammar and syntax became.

Today he started telling me that he has already spent considerable amount of his own money to help "this cause" and would like me to send him $2,000 as compensation to his son in the UK. After that he will then have his cousin get in touch with me.

So this is a new twist on the Nigerian letter scam operation.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
May 25, 2007 - 01:41pm PT
That's hilarious!!
#310

Social climber
Telluride, CO
Jun 1, 2007 - 12:08am PT
Rick,

I just read about this in Alpinist- maybe better late than never. I was the Valley Ranger who took the initial report of the plane crash in Jan. 1977. I have a few side stories to the main story from a former ranger's point of view. Email me if you want my stories.

Ranger #310
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 2, 2007 - 02:06pm PT
Ranger, check your email. Love to talk to you

I just received my copy of Alpinist in the mail. Finally a publication that tells the story correctly and quotes me like I said it.
jiimmy

Boulder climber
san diego
Jun 2, 2007 - 02:21pm PT
I heard a bunch of the "dope hikers" bought houses up in Yosemite. At lest they didnt squander it away.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 2, 2007 - 02:28pm PT
There have been some very interesting stories from different people that made their way up to the site. Not all bought new cars.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jun 2, 2007 - 03:43pm PT
So did my January 31rst lead of Utica help you find Jack Dorn's relatives?
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Jun 2, 2007 - 04:13pm PT
Didn't George Lucas, Steven Speilberg & Bill Gates schlep a load together? 's what I heard, anyway.
Ricardo Carlos

Trad climber
Off center, CO.
Jun 2, 2007 - 09:20pm PT
House money went thru several legit hands before house purchase. At least Yo west homes do not know about Foesta. But maybe it was just a dream and no plane crash or pot.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 2, 2007 - 09:48pm PT
Jaybro, sorry, but you did not post anything on Jan. 31st.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jun 2, 2007 - 10:20pm PT
Yoo hoo
Risk

Mountain climber
Minkler, CA
Jun 17, 2007 - 05:10pm PT
Hey Rick,

I have a few tales to tell about this event, a theory /rumor or two, some of the folklore, and someone who saw "the wallet?"

Send an email.
Tahoe climber

Trad climber
a dark-green forester out west
Jun 19, 2007 - 06:54pm PT
Anybody have a feel for when this book will be available?
I'd sure like a copy...
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 22, 2007 - 02:24am PT
TM, check your mail.

As for the book. Its getting down to the wire. I'm now just tying up loose ends as far as the sequence of events go. To be honest, if I relied on everyone's 30 year old memory, the time line would look like that Jack In The Box ad for chipotle sauce where Jack's mouth looks like a mess of spaghetti. It wouldn't make sense nor would it be linear.

I have a few of the key players left to talk to as well as collect releases on some of the great photos that have been provided. I'm also planning on a trip up to the lake to take photos. That'll happen in a few weeks. I thought I'd wait until the Park was as peak tourist season before I headed out.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 5, 2007 - 07:00pm PT
I would like to get in touch with the following people. I'm trying up loose ends so if anyone can pass on my name/phone number/email addy to them I'd appreciate it.

Mike Elsberry
Ranger Tucker (I don't know his first name)
Greg Lucas
Bill Similany (not sure of the last name spelling)
Anyone that knew Roger Bannister

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jul 5, 2007 - 08:19pm PT
Did my Utica lead pan out?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 5, 2007 - 08:40pm PT
PR, yes your lead did help a lot. I've been in touch with his brother.
WBraun

climber
Jul 5, 2007 - 09:56pm PT
"Ranger Tucker (I don't know his first name)"

It's Jim Tucker, and he's retired now and lives in Mariposa.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 5, 2007 - 11:48pm PT
Thanks WB...I'll check him out
Mr. D

Trad climber
West Coast
Jul 6, 2007 - 12:45am PT
Licky...check your e-mail!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 6, 2007 - 11:00pm PT
Thank you Mr. D...much appreciated
Mt Lovr

Boulder climber
Jul 11, 2007 - 02:12am PT
Way to keep researching this thoroughly, Licky. I have totally enjoyed tuning in from time to time and watching as key players or people who know them contact you one by one. This would have undoubtedly been a different (and weaker, possibly inaccurate) book had you simply gone with the information you originally received.
I'm a writer myself and when working on a project, people who have troubling composing a four-paragraph letter frequently ask me "When ya gonna be done writing that book?" and I reply "When it's finished!"
Tokes to you for sticking with it, and I hope you sell enough copies to earn a little bread -- thus, in your own hard-working way, you too will have profited from that 1977 plane crash, which would be totally appropriate and a delicious bit of irony that such a long-gone illegal cargo woudl still be generating at little income.
Best wishes
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2007 - 02:30pm PT
Thanks Mt. its been an interesting plus two years.

Yes, you are correct when you talk about going with the first story. Although what I'm finding that in many cases the stories only differ because two people were viewing an event from different angles. One person picked up or recalls something that another didn't. It doesn't mean that one was blowing smoke (so to speak) and the other wasn't. 30 years is a long time to ask someone to recall details of an event that was just a brief moment in their life.

Stay tuned
500

Mountain climber
Ruby, Colorado
Aug 6, 2007 - 02:40am PT
I have struggled with communicating with you. I hadn't visited this thread for a long time. It hurts my head. I might be able to help with some background on Jack. We met and learned to climbing together as classmates in a CMC rock course in Aspen. He was the person I was most likely to climb with and we were tight. I was waiting for him to arrive to be my best man and was pretty pissed when he didn't show. I learned, through the grapevine, of his death when a mutual friend returned from the park in 77. I called out there to confirm and got to spend some hours on the phone with an investigator looking into his background. I could have told you he was from Utica and had a mom and brother alive then. Those of us that knew him in Aspen called him Pig. He climbed a little with Lou Dawson, Michael Kennedy, squaty Body Eric, Rich Jack, and others . I'd have to scratch my head to remember all the names. I stayed with him in the park and we did some climbs though he was new there and working alot. Anyway, email if you want. I have a few photos of ares we climbed but I may only have one old newspaper photo of him. I'd have to dig around a bit to find that stuff.
SilverRurp
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 10, 2007 - 02:35pm PT
500, I appreciate the effort. Check your email
millhous

Trad climber
ny,ny
Sep 4, 2007 - 09:09pm PT
hey, do we have an ETA on the book?
Zander

Trad climber
Berkeley
Sep 5, 2007 - 12:48am PT
Licky,
Time to pull the trigger on this baby! Some of us are getting old. We're going to start passing on without having read the thing. Plus my eyesite is going. My wife caught me this morning with my reading glasses on and a spare set tucked in my collar. Time to publish.
Zander
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2007 - 04:14pm PT
The book would already be at the publisher if it weren't for all the new information coming forward. Friends of the two pilots are coming up with new photos. There is an organization that is helping me do research on the history of the plane while it saw duty in WW II including photos of the crews. Then there is the matter of getting up to the Park to go through the records and take photos of the lake and the trail that Jack Dorn fell from.

I'd say that 90% of the research is complete. The conversion from notes to readable text in a way that you'd want to turn the page has been a bit tedious, but I'm making headway.

To be honest, this project was only going to take a couple of months. As each Christmas would approach I figured I'd have it ready for the holiday sales. I had no idea that it would lead me where it has and it keeps on keeping on.

So hang in there. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, and its not the train.
TradIsGood

Happy and Healthy climber
the Gunks end of the country
Sep 10, 2007 - 04:31pm PT
The last 10% always takes 90% of the time.

Is the story about an airplane, or a drug run that ended in under water, or the lives of the people that were affected by the last run?

If it is one of the latter two, then its WWII history is a side-show.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2007 - 04:48pm PT
To answer your question...all of the above. For those in the climbing community the story about the plane in the lake and the dope is probably of major interest. But those that knew the pilots are interested in how they got into the business and the events surrounding their death. Two weeks ago I attended my 40th high school reunion in Seattle. Most that attened it knew Jon Glisky, some very well. I must have told the story a dozen times to small groups all day and night long. None had any idea about what happended after he died.

Then there are those that knew about this plane because they are into what are referred to as Lockheed Big Twins. They lost track of this plane back in the mid70s as it had been misidentified by the Feds during the investigation. As it was, there were only 17 made and this was number 17. One is still flying around the country.

Then through out all of this is the debunking of the myth and rumors. I've been led on some pretty wild goose chases by people that knew they had no idea what went on, but decided over the years to develop their own spin on the event. Some were just not there and some that were only had part of the story and ended up filling in the gaps with what sounded right or what they were told by someone else.

But most of all, I wanted to find something good that came out of this event. There had to be people who's lives were actually made better. I found them and its their stories that have helped temper the black side of this story.
RDL

Social climber
Silicon Valley
Nov 17, 2007 - 09:40pm PT
Hey,

My name is Ron, I lived in Yosemite in 1976 and 1977, worked at the Ahwahnee Hotel. I am one of the so called "hikers" actually on showshoes, who found the airplane, or the wing as it turned out along the trail to Lower Merced Pass Lake and our ultimate destination, Ottoway Lake, in the Clark range. We never made Lower Merced Pass Lake, pity, I often wonder what would have happened if had and figured out what happened. When we returned to the valley after camping on Ottoway Lake I reported to the Rangers that we had found a wing in the high country and gave them the numbers from the wing. Well all hell broke lose and in the next few days the entire Valley knew the story of the plane crash.

In April 1977 I returned with seemingly the entire Valley and returned with a backpack full of pot. Which I quickly dried and sold to a friend in San Jose. The next year I went back to college and used the airplane money to make the move to San Diego and pay for my first two years of college. Something good did come from the "Loadstar Lightning"

Rich Schloss is a good guy and has interviewed me and we have spoken on the phone a few times since. He is trying to piece the story together from several angles. I personally don't think there is any need to be fearful, statute of limitations having long expired. If you really know something first hand, NOT HEARSAY, (there are all kinds of Valley myths), then I would encourage you to come forward and let's get the whole story out. I have learned so much from him and cleared up some of the myths I still believed about the event.

I HAVE PHOTOS FROM THE SHOWSHOE TRIP TO OTTOWAY LAKE WHEN WE FOUND HE WING AND THE POT SALVAGE IN APRIL ON-LINE at:
http://public.fotki.com/RonLykins/travel/airplane_1977/
The first 7 or so are at the lake in April (chopping pot out of the ice) the others are the snowshoe trip when we found the wing, shots of thw wing included.

I look forward to reading Ricks book when it is realeased.

Ron Lykins


hossjulia

Trad climber
Eastside
Nov 18, 2007 - 01:09pm PT
WOW! What a great post. Thanks for the pictures.
Just out of curiosity, do you remember what kind of film you used? The color saturation is still so good! (Or did you have to play with it digitally?)
Indianclimber

climber
Las Vegas
Nov 18, 2007 - 01:16pm PT
Amazing pictures ,thank you
TrundleBum

Trad climber
Las Vegas
Nov 19, 2007 - 12:27am PT
Some was passable
some was total 'Sparkler weed'
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2007 - 02:26am PT
Hey Ron, good to see your post. Hope it helps those that are still not sure if they ought to contact me. Many still are. I talked to a guy today that gave me some helpful guidance regarding some of the publications that were about the event.

At the moment I'm piecing together the military history of the plane as well as a few loose ends. Getting closer.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 20, 2007 - 09:17pm PT
Trundlebum...please, tell me more. Obviously you have a story or two to tell. Drop me an email.
Chicken Skinner

Trad climber
Yosemite
Nov 20, 2007 - 10:21pm PT
Those pictures look kind of familiar.

Ken
bachar

Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
Nov 21, 2007 - 01:35am PT
What plane?

I can't wait to hear about this shiz...
Chicken Skinner

Trad climber
Yosemite
Nov 21, 2007 - 01:42am PT
Moi aussi!

Ken
RDL

Social climber
Silicon Valley
Nov 27, 2007 - 05:36pm PT
Hossjulia:
As I recall it was Kodachrome64 which I shot most of the time in Yosemite (warmer), I then had prints made and scanned the prints some 30+ years later to make the digital photos that you saw on-line.

Boy wish I was 21 again, just hiked the Grand Canyon for Thanksgiving (full moon nearly was incredible). My 52 year old muscles are still sore but happy to have hiked the canyon. My arthritic left knee did better than I thought it would and I had a great time camping on Horeshoe Mesa.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 27, 2007 - 10:28pm PT
We'll have to compare left knees
wildone

climber
Where you want to be
Nov 28, 2007 - 01:59am PT
RDL! Thanks for stepping up to the plate! Those pictures are incredible!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 28, 2007 - 04:12am PT
Hey Rok...yeah, been a little while. Just when things start slowing down, I get contacted by a couple more people that figure into the story. Some from the climbing communitee and some from outside but well versed in other aspects of what went on. I truly am not without information which I'm thankful for.

Drop me a line or a call, we'll play a little catch up.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 2, 2007 - 01:05am PT
To give everyone an idea of how this story is panning out. I recently talked to one of the pilot's relatives. Just when I thought that they didn't want to discuss the event that resulted in the loss of a family member, they step forward providing a wealth of information that I didn't know.

And for those that knew Jack Dorn, his family had an image of a mountain carved onto his granite tombstone to show how much he was into mountains and climbing. Very nice.
Albion

Trad climber
Bristol, UK
Jan 17, 2008 - 11:57am PT
Hey Licky

there's a fair few Brit climbers over here on the other side of the pond who follow this thread and cannot wait to read the whole saga..

Is stuff still coming out of the woodwork or are you getting close to publication?

Did you make that trip up to the lake?

Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2008 - 05:59pm PT
LOL...I love it. Can't wait to hear the story.

People keep contacting me with new info on everything from the pilots to the plane to the investigation. Same with photos. I hear from at least one person each week with more tips. So I continue to sort, research, catalog, and so on. I now have names of all the small towns in Mexico that the smoke traveled through on its way to Lower Merced Pass Lake. Quite a trip with trucks, vans and even fishing boats long before the plane.

A trip up to the lake is planned this spring/summer. So far it will include Ron Lykins (found the wing), Jon Glisky's (one of the two pilots)sister, maybe Jeff Nelson's (other pilot) cousin, and myself. No telling how many might make it by then. I'll keep everyone up to date on the event.
jiimmy

Boulder climber
san diego
Jan 17, 2008 - 11:36pm PT
Heroes shouldnt wind up in jail. Maybe what they did was more greed then heroism. Young people today got plenty of ways to mess themselves up, they dont need to look to old men who got their start in financial security by dealing. Less talented people are always looking for a way to get around the system.
Risk

Mountain climber
Minkler, CA
Jan 18, 2008 - 12:10am PT
During Easter evening, my pack was so heavy that I alternated between walking forward uphill and walking backwards uphill to the trailhead. We scouted it good, but there was no danger. We made our way to the 41 exit, which was also empty, and on to Summerdale for a good night rest finally. The next morning, at Silvertip Lodge (Fishcamp), we feasted on a huge greasy breakfast. Afterwards, as we walked to the parking lot and started to climb into my 66’ VW camper, a kind Fresno Co. Sheriff pulled up along the passenger side. As his squeaky, black, shiny boots stepped to the pavement, the melting and leaking juice of our “lode” dripped and flowed from the van past him with that special “Airplane” aroma. We all acted casual, said hello, closed the doors, and headed down to Fresno for the next step . . . .
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 23, 2008 - 12:47am PT
Jiiimmy...not much has changed. History repeats itself as we have heard time and time again.
Rock!...oopsie.

Trad climber
pitch above you
Jan 23, 2008 - 09:26am PT
Goddammit, jiimmy. I can't believe somebody wants to jump into this with "won't somebody think of the children?" Stories (and especially histories) are not necessarily about heroes for young people to emulate.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2008 - 09:43pm PT
For those following this saga. Tomorrow I meet with one of the family members of one of the pilots. This site has been very helpful in helping them understand what went on up at the lake after their loss. Everyone's posts, for the most part have provided a little insight into what the event was for others outside of the drug running group.

Let me also add that Jack Dorn's family knew nothing about the plane crash, the dope, or any of the mystery surrounding his death.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 19, 2008 - 10:21pm PT
Just spoke with the Park Ranger that took the initial report from Ron Lykins about a wing. He was also one of two that immediately went up to the lake via chopper to find the wing. Amazing memory that some people have after all these years. He told it like he was right there.
#310

Social climber
Telluride, CO
Feb 20, 2008 - 07:54am PT
Licky,

Maybe I don't understand your last entry about the ranger who took the initial report about the wing. I do not need to be in the book or anything. I took the initial report of the crash being found and I called it in to Scott Air Force Base. Shortly after Scott Air Force Base called me back, a lot of other rangers came into work that Sunday night and I was off the case - which was fine by me. There were no helicopeter flights until the next day. The reporting party told me they found the tail of the plane and they had the call numbers from the tail.

I don't remember and never knew a lot of other details about the early days of the investigation. And I told you by phone everything else I knew about the whole episode. I have a very distinct memory of that Sunday afternoon, getting the initial report, calling Scott, etc. and no other ranger was around during that time.

Kathy Green
the Fet

Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
Feb 21, 2008 - 11:46am PT
Bump, I just had time to read Rokjox's fantastic story above.
Wyoming

Trad climber
Sacramento CA
Feb 24, 2008 - 07:59pm PT
As a reporter for the Los Angeles Times on Jun 2, 1994 I wrote a story-review about the premier showing of Cliffhanger in Los Angeles. The movie story, absurd in many ways, involves millions in cash tossed from a plane onto the peaks. The story was supposed to be in the Rockies, but it was filmed in the Dolomites because director Rene Harlin (no relation, I'm sure) said the Rockies were "too inaccessible" but more likely that they could not film in wilderness areas. Those involved in the filming includede David Breahears. Ron Kauk, Wolfgang Gullick, Jim Bridwell and Georgia Phipps, then a colleague of mine on the AAC board of directors, with an incredible stunt fall. Some assumed, as I wrote, that the movie was based on Jeff Long's novel "Angels of Flight." But co-producer Gene Hines said he conceived of Cliffhanger with John Long after seeing a television film of Yosemite climbing and getting to know some Yosemite climbers. He said Jeff Long had no special rights to the story since John had been in Yosemite at the time and knew all about the Merced Lake crash. I wrote that the script finally emerged after "traveling a tortuous trail fraught with legal threats..." Indeed, the credits say the film was "based on a premise by John Long and ranks Hines as one of three co-producers, not as a creator." That stirred a hornet's nest within the production company, as John may remember. Coleco--it may have been Harlin--called and railed at me, claiming there never was any threat of a lawsuit and threatened me with all sorts of dire things. I decided then never to mess with those movie people. If any apologies are due to John Long over this matter, I heartily offer them now, with great admiration for his work, some years later.
wcm

Trad climber
cardiff, ca
Feb 25, 2008 - 02:47pm PT
Sorry just came into the last part of this thread, read a ton of the thread so far and am very excited to hear if the book is out or not...?!?!?!

These stories remind me of some of Allan Weisbecker's novels, which are very entertaining and contain some truth.

http://www.aweisbecker.com/books/banditos/

So my question is, Has the book been published? Title? etc....

cheers and thank you!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 25, 2008 - 09:25pm PT
WCM...no, its still piles of data that are slowly evolving into flowing text.

By the way, today I met with Rod McKenzie. What a great guy, loads of stories and a very healthy appetite.
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Feb 25, 2008 - 11:45pm PT
Get him to tell you the Squirrel punting episode from his POV, Sweetshop, RIP!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2008 - 01:54am PT
A new twist to the story. I am now hunting down any info about Nadim Melkonian. I know he died in 2006. I'm looking for anyone that knew him during the plane crash period of the winter of 76/77. Can anyone help?
Wonder

climber
WA
Apr 7, 2008 - 02:14am PT
I go away & then when i can lurk I see LEB creeping into this...

Lois please in all seriousness STAY OUT OF THIS THREAD PLEASE PLEASE YOU KNOW NOTHING.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2008 - 02:17am PT
What is that phrase...."hijacking a thread"?
Wonder

climber
WA
Apr 7, 2008 - 02:19am PT
THANKS BRA..
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2008 - 01:44pm PT
Another update. Of all the Federal agencies that I have sent FOIA requests, only Yosemite and the DEA have stepped up to the plate. The others claim that files and reports have "probably been destroyed" due to the passage of time. Ya gotta love it.
Chaz

Trad climber
So. Cal.
Apr 15, 2008 - 01:50pm PT
If I get audited this year, I'm going with the "probably been destroyed due to the passage of time" excuse.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2008 - 10:32pm PT
Whats been interesting has been that many of the agencies tell me that what I'm asking for no longer exists. Yet I have a copy of it in my hands as I talk to them on the phone. I have great sources that are obviously better than the clerks in the office.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2008 - 07:47pm PT
Of all the government agencies that I didn't expect to step up to the plate, believe it or not....DEA has come through. Amazing to say the least! So stay tuned as I trickle some of the goodies that I find out. This ought to be great stuff.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
May 4, 2008 - 07:51pm PT
What???????



You still here?
When do I get a book for my Dorn leads? LOL
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2008 - 07:57pm PT
I'd say any day now except people keep contacting me with more amazing stories. When I get one I have to dive into it to see if its really what happened or just part of the legend.

I've been sent down some pretty wild goose chases.
xkyczar

Trad climber
denver
May 28, 2008 - 11:33am PT
So how about trickling some of those goodies?
dolomite_said

climber
the real
May 28, 2008 - 01:10pm PT
any info about the ranger who was supposedly "offed" while on a night-time rescue with yosar (whodunit) ? i think that's why you still see this tightlip-ness here , not so much the drug aspect .
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2008 - 02:55am PT
"Ranger"? Offed?....is this rumor or fact? Tell me more. If you mean Jack Dorn. He was neither a ranger nor was he "offed".

As for trickling info. Currently the DEA and FBI have both told me they are pouring through their files trying to come up with anything from that event. The problem is the time that has passed.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2008 - 12:59am PT
This evening I was contacted by a guy that was one of the chief mechanics for the Dee Howard Company from the 50s. This was the company that did the conversion of the PV-1 Ventura to what it was when it went down in Lower Merced Pass Lake. I'll be meeting with him soon to hear some of his stories about this plane. They only produced 17 and all were accounted for except this one. Here is a link to a site that shows the only one of the original 17 still flying. Guess I'm letting the cat out of the bag.

http://howard500.com/
Chicken Skinner

Trad climber
Yosemite
Jul 11, 2008 - 01:34am PT
Hi Licky,

Checked out the website, I think the "Remarkable baggage capacity" should be highlighted.

Ken


Blitzo

Social climber
Earth
Jul 11, 2008 - 01:38am PT
I never heard anything about it!!!!!
Robb

Social climber
Pick Up Truck Heaven
Jul 11, 2008 - 02:09am PT
Cough,cough,musty, huh, what plane?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2008 - 02:23am PT
Ken...Yep, thats one of those major issues. I talked to the guy that flys that plane on the web site. He agreed that if the purtty interior was stripped down, the load would be...well, lets just say it would have been a hell of a lot more.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2008 - 02:44am PT
I have a letter from the FBI that says Jack Dorn was the guy that found not only the black book, but also the wallet of one of the two pilots. The report says he removed a fairly good amount of bucks from it.

This is a letter from Clarence Kelly, Director of the FBI at the time.
Double D

climber
Jul 22, 2008 - 01:11pm PT
Silly, wild goose chases with little verifiable facts...besides who remembers the '70's?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2008 - 02:11pm PT
The story is written, but people are still contacting me with new stories and information. Some of it fantastic as always and some of it that takes me out on "wild goose chases" that turn out to be totally bogus.

I'm waiting for the DEA to come up with their package. That ought to be interesting.

I found a guy that used to fly the plane in Canada before it was modified. So his stories will be included.

I'm pretty sure I have the time line put together in an accurate sequence of events. That was a major hurdle from the get go.

As for remembering the 70s, for the little things most people seem to have problems, but since this was no little event in just about any player's life, the memories are very clear.
Double D

climber
Jul 22, 2008 - 03:29pm PT
Sorry Licky, I wasn't referring to your book, just reacting to the many posts that miss the mark. I'm sure you've done an exhuastive amount of research and found some interesting stories about the Yosemite Klondike and all the tragedies that followed.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2008 - 06:55pm PT
Double D...not a problem.

If you start at the beginning of this thread and read between the lines you'll hear a bunch of amazing stories. My favorite posts are those by "Chainsaw" and the support I received by the followers/participants in this event.
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Jul 22, 2008 - 06:58pm PT
Licky,

After 3 years and 2 months of these posts on the taco, it's amazing you still have interest in this book. I guess it takes that long to get something done right. You might want to consider publishing what you have since waiting for all of the information might mean never publishing the book. It would be a huge disappointment to never see it after following these posts for so many years.

Dave
Chicken Skinner

Trad climber
Yosemite
Jul 22, 2008 - 10:10pm PT
Jack did find, with one other person, $1,600 in 50 dollar bills and the book in a wallet in a down jacket embedded in ice near the nose cone. How do I know? Can't say! I was dating a girl who worked in the Wells Fargo bank during that time and apparently the wet bills had a distinctive smell.

Ken
Double D

climber
Jul 23, 2008 - 12:08am PT
Has anyone documented all the folks that died after the Loadstar klondike? Not saying that it had anything to do with the crash but there were several rather unfortunate souls that didn't live to tell their grandkids about it. Jack for one. That was a weird deal. Years later, Mark Tozier was struck by lightning. Many other strange happenings in folks lives just sort of happened after that. If I remember right, the black book, wallet and human remains in a sock were all found at the same time.

Many 'o mustache was flared by that stuff. I'm sure the fumes had to be rather unhealthy.

Good luck on the book. Wild times for sure.
Blitzo

Social climber
Earth
Jul 23, 2008 - 01:58am PT
I remember Jack. A really good dude! Remember that convertable that he bought? R.I.P.
Double D

climber
Jul 23, 2008 - 07:16am PT
You mean the one with Playboy center-fold pin-ups pasted all over the interior? Yeah, I remember that. When I knew Jack he was 30, I was maybe 19 and I remember discussing amongst my peers how cool it was that this "really old dude" could just hang with the rest of us. All we could fathom was, "man I hope we're all that cool when we're 30!"

Jack is greatly missed!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2008 - 02:20pm PT
rectorsquid...Unlike a novel where holes in the facts can be filled in with what ever sounds good, this book will be a historical accounting of the event. I'm sure if you bought a publication claiming to be a true historical book about an event you knew something about and found missing facts, or even worse, unsubstantiated facts based on nothing more than rumor you'd feel like your money was not well spent. For that reason I am taking my time, researching every story, backing up my facts, and am constantly finding out new stories.

Ken...funny, that was the exact amount that the Feebies have in their report. Ahhhh..now ya see rector, this is what I'm talking about. An FBI report doesn't make it fact, only that someone put it on paper. Back that up with a few comments from people that knew people that were there and pretty soon I get to the meat and potatoes. And it has taken +3 years to get the FBI report, but it only took a few months to hear about the wallet and its contents.

By the way, if anyone can refresh my memory as to how to post a photo on this thread, I have a few of Jack Dorn.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Jul 23, 2008 - 02:50pm PT
Glad you are taking your time with the book. After all, it's been nearly 4 decades - why rush?

On another note, this thread seems to be taking a long time to reach the 400 post milestone,
so I thought I would help it out a little. Rock on!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2008 - 03:06pm PT
Good point Hardman....I guess someone has to do it
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2008 - 09:48pm PT
Lets see how many tries it takes

This is Jack and his Mom when she came out west to visit.

[url=http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jackandruth1976cp1.jpg]{{img}}h~~p://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7662/jackandruth1976cp1.th.jpg[/img][/url]



Here is a new one for those that have been following the story. This is an image of the plane when it was owned by the RCAF in full combat dress.

[url=http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ventura2232ta1.jpg]{{img}}h~~p://img401.imageshack.us/img401/2875/ventura2232ta1.th.jpg[/img][/url]
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Jul 23, 2008 - 09:52pm PT
Original resized to 700 pixels wide and compressed to 100 KB:

Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2008 - 09:53pm PT
Hardman...thanks, I was looking for the image resize command. Hint?
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Jul 23, 2008 - 09:53pm PT
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/forum_help.html
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2008 - 09:56pm PT
Anything that is easy to see rather than have to use our bifocals
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Jul 23, 2008 - 10:00pm PT
Full size:

Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Jul 23, 2008 - 11:09pm PT
My version says there were 34 $50 bills in the wallet. At least that's what some dude at some lake said when he showed them to me. Man, was he trippin; headed to the valley with his lode.

That was the week of April 4 1977, probably the 5th or 6th. Bumped into Roger Banister (RIP) on the trail that day, as well as others left unnamed. Camped downstream with a party of gold diggers with a warm fire.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2008 - 12:04am PT
I think your take on Jack sounds about right. He once marched AGAINST the war protesters back in New York
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2008 - 12:10am PT
It was Reno
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2008 - 02:11am PT
Learn to read the eyes
philo

Trad climber
boulder, co.
Jul 24, 2008 - 12:20pm PT
Lois weren't you previously asked to stay clear of this thread?
This event was an iconic moment in US climbing history and you have no idea what you are talking about. Stick to the political threads where no one cares how much drift you create.
philo

Trad climber
boulder, co.
Jul 24, 2008 - 12:51pm PT
Woo Hoo post # 420. Smokin'!
philo

Trad climber
boulder, co.
Jul 24, 2008 - 01:09pm PT
Sorry LEB it wasn't this thread it was the South Face of Half dome thread.

Still, thread drift is a terrible thing. Please avoid it if you can.

The US legal system may have a statute of limitations but the drug cartels do not. They have a looooong memory. Many people have a fair reason to be nervous.

Licky, the black book was destroyed right?
philo

Trad climber
boulder, co.
Jul 24, 2008 - 02:23pm PT
Really Lois don't you have some naked gardening to do?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2008 - 03:22pm PT
Ok...time for some facts.

First off Lois, you are the one that is speculating. If you read this thread from the get go you will learn the answers to many of your questions. I have posted in the past.

Jon Glisky and Jeff Nelson knew exactly what they were hauling. They had been doing this for five years. The plane was one of five that Glisky had owned. Not one at a time, but at the same time. At one point in their past they had attempted to set their own record at 14 trips in 14 days just to see if they could do it.

As for letting the dead lay. It was Jon's wife Pam that first approached me to start a book about their drug running days. It was no secret, but the rumors (as you have speculated) turned into facts after they had been told enough times, and they in turn turned into history. Most either totally bogus or modified into something unbelievable. Such as "...maybe they didn't know what the cargo was." Maybe is the operative word.

I can appreciate everyone sitting around spinning yarns about what might have gone on. The story really does have some great twists and turns that can stand by themselves without embellishing.

Lois, email works pretty well...js
Caveman

climber
Cumberland Plateau
Jul 29, 2008 - 03:58pm PT
"I just wish they did not have to die so young over something as worthless as drugs."



My guess is that they died due to a problem with airframe/flight and it had nothing to do with what they were carrying. Just more speculation.

Didn't know what they had in the hold? Yeah.....sure. caveman
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jul 29, 2008 - 04:12pm PT
LEB,

Please quit babbling.





You are making us wonder which drug you are on.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Jul 29, 2008 - 05:13pm PT
TGT wrote:

LEB,

Please quit babbling.



Seconded (with extreme prejudice).


For God's sake Lois, please read this thread from the start, and you'll see how out of place
and absurd your ramblings are...

LEBization™, indeed!
Jim Wilcox

Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
Jul 29, 2008 - 05:14pm PT
I'd rather die in plane wreck hauling pot then on the 405 going to work. Now, that would truly be sensless
Jaybro

Social climber
wuz real!
Jul 29, 2008 - 05:23pm PT
" LEB-ization of this thread is really thoughtless "

LEB-ization is never thoughtless, it is a tangent and often hard to 'get' at first. Try to keep up, it's worth it.
Caveman

climber
Cumberland Plateau
Jul 29, 2008 - 05:28pm PT
And there was thunder......thunder......over thunder road. Thunder was their engines and ganja was their load.


Public service if you ask me.

Maybe the Sierra is different but you drop a load in the woods here'bouts then the locals own it...maybe you too. They won't consider it stealing.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Jul 29, 2008 - 05:52pm PT
Coz wrote
"I am so over the plane karl, isn't there anything else to talk about. Guys stealing dope from dope dealers, wow... Who f ing cares.

I think if I where you I'd write something else, before you get yourself or anyone else in trouble."

Is there some "karl" that's planning on writing something? The OP's name was rick.

Peace

Karl
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2008 - 06:06pm PT
Lois posted: "As for the widow (or rather one of the widows), it has come to my attention that you are now married to her and she is having a good life with you. That is a very good thing and I am glad that the story appears to be having a happy ending. I will be reading your book once it comes out so hurry up and publish it."

First,I hate to put water on your continued speculation, but we are not married. Never have been, probably never will be.

Second, there have not been any comments about widow(s), so again, it is a reach to assume there is a second widow rather than to simply ask.
Jaybro

Social climber
wuz real!
Jul 29, 2008 - 08:14pm PT
"we are not married. Never have been, probably never will be."


Now, how evocative is that?
Russ Walling

Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
Jul 29, 2008 - 09:47pm PT
Share a copy???? Buy a few..... Rokjoxs' lungs are paying for it.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2008 - 01:57pm PT
Lois posted: "...I'd say it is high time to wrap it up and go to press."

So if I understand you, you don't really mind if a historical book is incomplete and incorrect just as long as it gets into your hands. Again, this isn't a novel like those before it.

When the book goes to print it will contain only facts, not speculation. All of the facts will have been researched and documented. If there is a story that someone tells from a second person's point of view, it will be researched as well. If it can't be supported with fact it won't be published.
Strider

Trad climber
one of god's mountain temples....
Jul 31, 2008 - 02:26pm PT
Awww, come on Licky! If you don't included the un-supported, second hand stories then it won't be any fun!

-n
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Jul 31, 2008 - 02:39pm PT
"When the book goes to print it will contain only facts..."

That would be impressive considering how much information must be first-hand accounts told to you by individuals with fading memories and biased points of view.

Still, I eagerly await the book and will buy a copy now or in ten years, whenever it becomes available :)

Dave
Jaybro

Social climber
wuz real!
Jul 31, 2008 - 03:32pm PT
Nah licky, take the time to do it right.

But don't be offended if me and Lois start writing our reviews, right now. Har!

..It's a family thing, she reads a chapter, then throws the book down to me on the bottom bunk, eventually I toss it back up.
Nefarius

Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
Jul 31, 2008 - 04:00pm PT
"I had to steal food and can and all the other things we did back then, but I am sure not proud of it. Somebody please explain it to me. Why do modern climber think that what we did was so romantic, old school or core. It's a bunch of jive, it sucked, we didn't have any money or rich parents and did what we had to do."

Maybe when I was in my twenties I would have thought it "romantic", as you say... But being in my mid-thirties, the question begs to be asked - What was forcing you to not go get a job like regular folks? You know, leave the valley, get a gig, climb when you can, etc?

I'm just curious. Doing what you did was a choice, not something that was forced on you. You made the choice to steal. So, it seems to me that, unless I'm missing something, you are the one romanticizing what you did...
Jaybro

Social climber
wuz real!
Jul 31, 2008 - 04:15pm PT
Interesting perspective.

Seems more like salvage, to me
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Jul 31, 2008 - 04:58pm PT
Very interesting perspective indeed. I was on my own and paying rent from age 17,
perhaps I could have been a dirtbag in Yosemite instead? I did knott like being broke,
so I got a !@#$%^& job!!

Again Licky (and again and again), take your time on the book, and remember that people in hell want ice-water...

Nefarius

Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
Jul 31, 2008 - 05:14pm PT
I'm just pointing out and playing devil's advocate... I can totally see myself, or any young person in the same situation. Hell, even after I'd grown up a bit, I left a great job with great benefits, pay and vacation and lived there for quite a while myself. Although I saved a chunk of money before I did... But it's not like I can't see/feel the draw...
wombat

Trad climber
NY, NY
Jul 31, 2008 - 06:11pm PT
the bits of this story that have come out are very interesting and often highly entertaining despite the unfortunate ends to some of the individual's tales.

One has to wonder if the "truth" is in fact obtainable in this story. Given the way the mind works, even in the best of cases, after this length of time, the "truth" will be very elusive beast as many of the sources will have told, heard and retold the same stories to the same people. as we repeat stories, the little changes become fact in our memories. and given that this affair includes drugs, death, theft and other less than admirable facets, there will always be a subtle and even unconscious bias to justify one's actions. not even addressing that many of the minds involved were partaking of the loot and other substances and that they are climbers, and great ones at that so they are clearly somewhat off to start with :)

I think that JL's collections of stories and remembrances will hold as much truth as this. it is still a worthwhile endeavor and I would certainly read it. best of Luck.

Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2008 - 12:34am PT
Wombat. You are problably correct when it comes to the stories that the climbers and others that made their way up to the lake. However there is so much more to this story than that part. The rest is actually quite researchable, down to reports and documents that support a lot of the stories.
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Aug 1, 2008 - 01:24am PT
Opportunists, that what they were. Scavengers? Maybe. Thieves or looters? No way. The kids who made it up there to the gold rush were taking advantage of an opportunity to retrieve what the Park Service was sure to confiscate. To leave it there was to waste it.

Licky, how about the switched trail signs down at Illiouette Junction? To me, that was classic! I wonder how many people were fooled!

I recall how “crash buds” would easily flame-up with little notice. I’m not sure if that was because of the fuel still in it or its composition following the drying process (often done in Curry dorms).

There must be an endless stream of true stories related to this event, so take your time to get the best of them.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Aug 1, 2008 - 07:13pm PT
My memory of Lodestar Lightning was that it was DIFFICULT to keep lit.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Aug 1, 2008 - 07:21pm PT
I wonder if any of that pot made it to the midwest, where I lived. '77 was, unfortunately, one on my peak usage years.
Nefarius

Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
Aug 1, 2008 - 07:22pm PT
I'm jsut amazed I know people who were old enough to be smoking pot in '77! hahaha Buncha old dudes here! :)
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Aug 1, 2008 - 09:58pm PT
Speak for yourself! I was only 15 years old in 1977.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Aug 1, 2008 - 10:14pm PT
Hey Licky

You are doing good. We talk about this before: "History"

Correct information is what is all about. History gets distorted for some political/religious reasons beyond our control.

Get it correct and if you need more time no biggie.

As for Jack wanted to know if you had the 1978 "Accidents in North American Mountaineering" published by the American Alpine Club. Sure you have covered bases already. But have a copy if you need it.

Will be posting photo of Jack soon. The funny one, might be a break from all the threads.

Looking forward to the book. I think it will one of those "Best Sellers/Classic" non-fictional books.

Well for at least a month, maybe two.

Thinking you should have two: The story itself and then the "New Gold Rush" that had to with the climbers as another.

No matter which way you will be read.


Ricardo Carlos

Trad climber
Off center, CO.
Aug 1, 2008 - 11:18pm PT
"I had to steal food and can and all the other things we did back then, but I am sure not proud of it. Somebody please explain it to me. Why do modern climber think that what we did was so romantic, old school or core. It's a bunch of jive, it sucked, we didn't have any money or rich parents and did what we had to do."

Maybe when I was in my twenties I would have thought it "romantic", as you say... But being in my mid-thirties, the question begs to be asked - What was forcing you to not go get a job like regular folks? You know, leave the valley, get a gig, climb when you can, etc?

I'm just curious. Doing what you did was a choice, not something that was forced on you. You made the choice to steal. So, it seems to me that, unless I'm missing something, you are the one romanticizing what you did...


Nef
It was a choice many but not all made it.


Flat broke in the Valley I once borrowed ten dollars From Dick C. Drove to San Diego worked three days and made enough to come back for another month.

I never scarfed, Went canning , dined and dashed or stole .
Well not counting
$150 dinners at the Four Seasons with a very small bill and big tip .
Free sundays and floats sweet shop (never asked for)
Employee discounts 30-40% at the general store.(never asked for)
Two salad bowls from the Four Seasons and a master key to showers. They were a gift but I may have hinted.
A Curry name tag with my real name. It helped in employee showers and with rangers.
(Before I became a renter)
I paid rent to Curry as a ghost roommate.(Oh I asked)
My first night as a renter was the evening before the Mammoth Earth Quakes.
Five guys and seventy gals and a pissed house mother watched the three story behind the general store shake .
Friday mornings in a pump house in Foresta I could sew four to six packs and sell them by four in the afternoon. I made as much money then a week as I lived on my first month in the valley.
It kept my thirteen year old brother and I feed for another week.

Larry Z could bum a quick $100 Sunday afternoon from turons telling them he lost his wallet and needed gas money to get back to school work or what ever.

Another guy Stole ice boxes from pines and rivers camp grounds.

When asked at the Awhanne if we were staying at the hotel Dick C. replied doesn’t everyone.
A few weeks later she asks me if he was really staying at the Awhanne as she saw him canning.
I even heard one climber lived in the judges basement with his 16 year old daughter. After all 16 will get you 20 unless you are on a military base or in a National Park.
Who said it was not romantic. What 2-3 thousand female employees, if that’s not reeking of romance it was at least lust.
I have a fine assortment of Romanic memories many include climbing.
Tomorrow I will hike into the Park RMNP to make more memories climbing Sunday. Back to the topic the first crash weed I smoked was with a ranger after climbing , she was supprised I had not heard about the weed. I headed to the Valley the next day , one day before the Feds.
Double D

climber
Aug 2, 2008 - 12:49am PT
Piton Ron, "My memory of Lodestar Lightning was that it was DIFFICULT to keep lit." You must not have had a mustache at the time. The flare ups were akin to personal firework displays! Maybe it was still in that wet stage but the fuel ignitions at the mid-pinner drift were legondary... sort of a Loadstar Branding campaign.

But... I didn't inhale sir.
Amanda Bircheff

climber
CA
Aug 12, 2008 - 02:56am PT
Hey Licky, If I can get a first hand account from my dad ( and I know he has one 'cause I've heard the story many times ) I'll pass it along.
Amanda Bircheff
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2008 - 01:15am PT
The Feds have come forward with their sterile info as a result of my Freedom of Information Act Reqeust (FIOA). Yosemite was by far the best. They gave me just what I needed to get the time line of all the events into place.

More interviews are set up for next month.

I have found the guy that was responsible for determining if the plane was air worthy to fly to Texas for its modification from a WWII fighter/bomer to an executive aircraft. Since there were only 17 of these planes made, he remembers it. His brother was a pilot for one of the companies that owned it right after the war.

I also found the chief mechanic for the plane after it was modified and sold to the Republic Steel Company in Ohio in the 50s. After all these years, he too remembers the plane and its querks. I guess it was a real hot rod.

Since the cat is out of the bag regarding the plane type, if you are interested in seeing the only flying version of this plane, or older photos of it, do a Google on "Howard 500". Enjoy

And for those that knew Jack Dorn, he's figuring into this book as well. He had a colorful past before arriving in Yosemite. His family has a hell of a story to tell regarding the events following his death.
Jaybro

Social climber
wuz real!
Sep 15, 2008 - 10:36am PT
Don't worry, there will be a large print edition...
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2008 - 09:24pm PT
In a couple of weeks I'll be interviewing and old friend of Jack Dorn's. I'll be talking to another guy within the drug organization. I'd have done this earlier, but its taken this long to locate them. Next month I'll be spending a day with Jack Dorn's brother.

I'm still waiting for the DEA to send me their files.

As for the lake. The plane landed in the deepest part, about 60 feet. They drug it (no pun intended) tail first to the shallow end of the lake so they could cut it up and air lift it out. The left wing was ripped off during flight and its engine was found a few miles away in 2002.

I'm sure you guys would hate to read a book about something like this that was incomplete.
Jaybro

Social climber
wuz real!
Sep 15, 2008 - 09:35pm PT
Take the time it takes, my last (1st) book took an extra 18 months, after my deadline. No problem. But we Are (mostly) climbers, so you can't expect us not to poke a little good natured sheeit your way, every so often... we're just filling the muse role.... kind of a pie in the face kinda thing.
Lemon meringue?

Wonder

climber
WA
Sep 15, 2008 - 09:35pm PT
Yep Licky, we're just chillin' anytime we'll be ready throw on some more Pink Floyd will ya.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2008 - 11:05pm PT
I'm thinking that I ought to drag this out until all of the players can't remember where Yosemite is. Then I can pump out monthly news letters that I could offer for sale. Hum....I can see a late night infomercial. Maybe use Yelling Billy from the Oxy adds.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Sep 17, 2008 - 03:05am PT
rittle licky - just got hip to this thread and didn't read it all yet, i'll have it done soon - forgive me if this was covered earlier, but i had to post if you're still taking posts. please allow me to posit this: did anyone else notice some abnormally bad luck befalling some plane moguls after the scores? things like microbuses slamming trees after crowding the seat . . . and worse. i'm old, bad memory and all. but its rekindling some disturbing stuff - we all thought things were going great. everybody was happy. within a year no one wanted to hear the word "plane" it seems. it was a life lesson in the danger of greed, as my parents, teachers or the damn church could never have taught me to such effect.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2008 - 04:14am PT
I can appreciate free association, but I have not a clue what you are talking about. I'd love to hear what you have to say, just turn on your filter
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Sep 17, 2008 - 03:44pm PT
not sure how filter works - ok, here's more vague recollections - the plane was for many of us, our first brush with unlimited wealth (or so it seemed at the time) - someone remarked about yabo eating in the MR instead of scrounging trays in the caf - well there was way more than that, without insulting guys who got by on so little (and guys, like yabo, who were so talented we couldn't even carry their chalk bag deserve to be remembered for what they did on the rock and not how they fueled their ascents) - it was a seismic shift in attitudes that occured subsequent to the plane - and more than new tents in camp 4 - a lot of climbers who were around at the time weren't just in sunnyside - many of us flew under the radar in cabins and dorms even without jobs (and sometimes even without girlfriends) - we were exposed to a good bit of risk as we operated under the nose of LEOs and the few federales downtown - to be seen was to be noticed, and many of us lived undercover but lived well - my personal vice was taking chances by eating at the ahwahnee every day - but everyone knew why we could do that all of a sudden - and the shift in tastes was more than gastronomic - gold lumbo was replaced by white line fever, and french wine with handmade labels - spent a few hundred bucks in chinatown once on korean ginseng - there was a comprehensive shift in consumption habits, and some of us weren't the better for it - but i learned lessons that i needed to learn, as i alluded to in my first post - when real wealth came later in life, wealth that was self-perpetuating and not just like living in a town where everyone hit the lottery at the same time, i was better able to resist temptation, or at least moderate it - imagine if some of us had been given credit cards before we learned (from the plane) how to handle wealth?
i shudder to think - but onto the negativity - we honestly believed that: A/ some of us took too much (were greedy), and B/bad luck followed those good-guys-gone-bad
now i'm not into the naming names thing - if my cryptic references to the vw van at the garage in the village with its head stoved in between the headlights don't ring a bell about a subsequent death and the miraculous recovery of a leg i'd rather not elaborate in this forum - but another loss was far from home, in the east bay and grisly like a bad movie - all of a sudden our idyllic life in the valley was shattered by obsene wealth, followed closely by equally obsene greed - that's apart of the story that needs to be told as well - for every frugal hippie that bought land and settled down there was another who developed a nasty habit that lingered on far longer than the sudden wealth - to me, that was the sad thing about it - we were happy and broke, and then wealthy and frustrated by concerns that never existed before - anyone who danced at cedar grove on a weekend night must remember all the trips outside and back in - hell, we might as well have been at studio 54 instead of down the road in midpines, except we still dressed like climbers - some habits are hard to break and we learned how hard after the plane - i hope i'm both making sense and not making sense, if you were there you should understand at least some of this even if viewed through the narrow perspective of sunnyside - there was a lot of money spent on things other than gear, although we blew a ton on gear/gadgets too - if you look at what just happened with the mortgage crisis you can see what damage sudden wealth/credit can do to people with weak wills - don't get me wrong, i had my fun and don't regret it, but as my friends gradually developed problems they never had before the plane i gained a healthy respect for honest poverty
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Sep 17, 2008 - 04:27pm PT
no i wasn't referring to the black book rumor - imean, that didn't fly in '77 - "mafia" dudes in expensive suits and italian loafers hiking the falls trail? c'mon, that was a bit dramatic
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Sep 17, 2008 - 04:30pm PT
and if you don't buy the karma angle, that's cool - i just thought joints that caught fire halfway down indicated some underlying dangers at the time, so perhaps i was hyper-sensitive/paranoid - maybe i still am
Wonder

climber
WA
Sep 17, 2008 - 04:41pm PT
sidmo, I,m really glad you spoke up. Being on the fringe of this whole story I'm really glad I wasn't in the middle of it all. There are alot of memory's I wish wouldn't remember.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Sep 17, 2008 - 05:34pm PT
i can dig it, bro - i've been trying to figure a piece of this tale to include in a fiction piece, but unsure whether it would be lost on a general audience - it's impossible to get normal people to understand why we hung out in the valley at all - now i play disc golf and folks don't get why we throw frisbees in between trees - instead of working harder and getting wealthier - i can't tell them why gold don't shine for me no mo
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Sep 18, 2008 - 11:36am PT
you're right - it wasn't all bad - or all shake as an earlier posting stated - the term "center-bale" was coined to describe the A grade - product that was essentially unchanged by the crash - and the wet did dry over a few days in the air, but it was cold that winter, and a heat source helped immeasurably - why some didn't notice or care that they smoked fuel was their business, but i felt the gods of karma dictated that it was a sin to pass the tainted product on - the greed factor was strong for others, it seemed
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2008 - 12:17am PT
Rok...I was just thinking about how the black cloud might have started when the pilot decided to fore go the needed repair to the engine and make the trip anyway.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2008 - 01:51am PT
Oops....did I let slip another goodie? Ratz...
Strider

Trad climber
one of god's mountain temples....
Sep 19, 2008 - 04:20am PT
I am curious Licky,

Have you found any information from one source that directly contradicts what you have heard from another? Meaning, guy one said that x happened at y time and guy two said that z happened at q time? I guess what I am asking is that after so long, is everyone's recollections coming together or has time and age taken it's toll and some people differ greatly on their recollection of events?

I have got to say, the story reported here seems very intriguing and I am very curious how it will come out when it is published. I must also say, I am glad I was not part of that time and events. It seems that it was the best of times and it was the worst of times...how would I have made my choices, if it were me? Who knows, who knows....

One thing I have learned from my time posting on internet boards is that you become accountable for what you say. So when is this book gonna hit the stands Licky? Do you have an editor, a publishers, a general release date? You started this and I am going to try to help hold your feet to the coals... =)

Thanks for an awesome story so far.

-n


Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2008 - 04:37am PT
Strider...there have been two types of stories that you refer to. One is the blatant false stories. "I was there" when the person wasn't there and can be confirmed by formal, multiple reports that they never participated in which ever event they claimed to have been. That includes the wild goose chases that I have been on only to find the same result. The other is where people have been telling their story for the past 30 years, embellishing as they go. In many cases they fill in the blanks with what seems to make sense. For what ever reason, they hold to these versions of the story making it very difficult to seperate the wheat from the chaft.


If you read my earlier postings on a projected publishing date you will see that one of the reasons why the book isn't completed is because of all of the contradictory info that comes out. I check out each story, no matter how off beat it is.

The other reason is more info keeps coming my way. I'm interviewing two more next week and another the following week.
mojede

Trad climber
Butte, America
Sep 19, 2008 - 12:44pm PT
How much was the chair worth?
mojede

Trad climber
Butte, America
Sep 19, 2008 - 02:30pm PT
Where's the missing 7th chair?
Wonder

climber
WA
Sep 19, 2008 - 02:46pm PT
Yeah lois this thread is NOT about YOU !!!!
STFU !!!!!!

You know no one misses you when youre gone !!!
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Sep 19, 2008 - 02:47pm PT
dont know what chairs have to do with planes, but you've got me wondering about that tale now - perhaps i'm just easily entertained, but i think you have a story there - if not a book perhaps a short story
mojede

Trad climber
Butte, America
Sep 19, 2008 - 03:01pm PT
I actually don't care about chairs and didn't even read what she said, just trollin' Lois rather.

I am going to buy Licky's book when it comes out, though. Back on topic.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2008 - 10:24pm PT
Maybe the chair is a metephor for sitting and watching what goes on and not to participate. As many know, the event up at the lake didn't involve a huge number of people, even though after all these years you'd think by the stories that half the population of California was up there. Whew...now there's a reach. How's that for yanking it back on topic?
Captain...or Skully

Big Wall climber
Nunya, America
Sep 19, 2008 - 10:26pm PT
Well, These folks DO GO on.........
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Sep 19, 2008 - 10:29pm PT
LIcky - it kind of reminds me of whenever there's a major accident involving Muni in
San Francisco (the public transportation agency). A bus will have a total capacity of
say 60, and estimates will show that perhaps 30 were actually on the bus at the time,
and yet 300 people will file claims against the city...
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2008 - 11:01pm PT
Hardman, not to mention the quantity of lawyers that will have
press conferences for victims that live out of state
jbar

Mountain climber
The Dirty South
Sep 19, 2008 - 11:36pm PT
Wow, I'll have to watch the news out there and get in on the bus thing.

I'm definitely going to be looking for this book. Some people have made mention that it may smear the rep of established climbers but most of us realize that we have all come from somewhere we weren't before now. We have all made good and bad choices. From what I have read in the post it seems like the people involved made choices any of us would likely have made and learned if not grew from their experiences. Where some see a "black cloud" or Karma I see only choices and consequences. We have had several instance of "findings" where I am from but mostly everything was trashed from salt water. If people chose to smoke weed contaminated with diesel then that was their choice. I remember when I was young and invincible. I did a lot of things to my body I couldn't even imagine doing now.
OH and I would certainly have been one of the guys getting the dive gear. Just for the adventure of it. Been there done that wrote the book.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 20, 2008 - 12:35am PT
To be honest...there are so many facets to this story. The climbers, dope, plane, investigation, and on and on.

Hell, Pam, the pilot's wife never gave permission for his body to be cremated. Another angle on things.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 20, 2008 - 09:56pm PT
jbar, I can assure you that there will be no "smearing" of anyone. This book will connect all of the loose ends to all of the stories. For many, over the last 30 there were no loose ends. They thought they knew the real or the whole story. Most have been wrong.

As for using names of those that made it up to the lake to get their share of the "gold", their names are not important. They know who they are as do those that never made it and let others think they did make it. The stories are what are important. Not only the stories up at the lake, but those that resulted from bringing down the smoke and what they did during the sale and afterward.

As I've said on many occasion, I'm not out to expose people. I'm out to tell the stories, but only if they are true. When someone contacts me with their take on what goes on, I spend an inordinate amount of time researching that story.

I'm sure that many of those on this board will confirm how many times I've recontacted them to go over something that they told me.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2008 - 02:16am PT
Anyone catch the article in the Sept. 13th edition of the Fresno Bee about the plane crash?
dogtown

climber
Where I once was,I think?
Oct 1, 2008 - 02:23am PT
You should have a ton of info.by now just off this thread.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2008 - 02:44am PT
What I love is that with this tread running for over three years now you'd think that one of the reporters from the Bee might have stumbled on it and realized that maybe the plane wasn't a Lockheed Lodestar. But what the hell, accuracy in reporting is not required. Makes one wonder at what else in any other article is incorrect?
dogtown

climber
Where I once was,I think?
Oct 1, 2008 - 03:13am PT
That was two years before my time as a dirt-bag so I know very little about it.Sounded like it was a good time for all,but for the ones that crash the plane.
Tom

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
Oct 1, 2008 - 04:03am PT
All too easy . . .

[url="http://www.fresnobee.com/263/story/864348.html" target="new"]Pot Plane Crashes[/url]


edit: not that easy
dogtown

climber
Where I once was,I think?
Oct 1, 2008 - 04:21am PT
Well,thats only part of the story.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 2, 2008 - 10:26pm PT
Tom, I have that article with photo in hands right now. They printed a hell of a lot more, not accurate, but a lot more in the paper than you can read on that online print.
sawin

climber
On the ocean the last I checked.
Oct 2, 2008 - 11:10pm PT
What is the statute of limitations on possible crimes that might have been committed?

None for capital punishment.

Others from 2 months to 10 years.

Unlike civil some crime statutes may not begin
until reported.

I can not find the statute that allegedly exist in the
past making it a crime to not report a felony if knowing
a felony occurred.

Good luck with your book or books.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 3, 2008 - 03:04pm PT
Sawin...not sure what you are getting at. Who didn't report a crime? Remember, first hand knowledge is different than "I heard they were doing it."

Statue of Limitations for drug possession, dealing/distribution is seven years.

No capital crime was committed so that doesn't apply.

I'm sure there are plenty of attorneys that read this thread who could provide non-billable responses.
tolman_paul

Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
Oct 3, 2008 - 03:14pm PT
Not to mention the evidence went up in smoke decades ago.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Oct 9, 2008 - 08:26pm PT
any of you legal eagles trying to CYA, remember: check federal statutes, and, as i recall, the rangers could choose cal state, mariposa county, or federal laws to charge people with, as it suited their fancy
Jim Wilcox

Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
Oct 9, 2008 - 08:47pm PT
I gotta think that if Pam isn't sweatin' it everyone else should be ok. I would have figured she had every governmental agency imaginable climbing her frame at one time or another. The IRS musta been a real joy.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
Oct 9, 2008 - 10:20pm PT
Not reporting a crime is not a crime.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 10, 2008 - 09:39pm PT
Jim, you hit that nail on the head! Not to mention they were trying to get her to pay for the salvage operation even though they couldn't connect her with the plane. Hell, even her husband was only the pilot, the owner was a bogus company with no paper trail.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2008 - 01:46am PT
As many of you have now learned, the plane was a modified military fighter/bomber called a PV-1 Ventura. Eventually it was purchased by a company in Texas that did the modifications to it to make it a real hot rod. This next Monday I will visit the guy that flew with the company's pilots to determine if the plane(s) were air worthy to be flown back to Texas for modification.

Although there were only 17 Howard 500s built, they started off as 250s, 300s, 350s, and a slew of other variants. Howard Aero was the predecessors to the corporate Lear Jet of today.

Dee Howard was the inventor of the reverse thruster for the commercial jets that we all love to fly in today.

For those that are followers of the Howard 500, for the past 30 years all but 16 have been accounted for. It turns out that the 17th was this plane....stuffed in Lower Merced Pass Lake with way too much dope on board.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2008 - 11:52pm PT
Let me add a little to my previous post. As I have been researching the Howard 500, I have learned that the Howard 500 was not a "modified" PV-1 Ventura. The Howard 500 was just about built from the ground up. They used engines, landing gear a a few other parts from the PV-1 Venturas that they found all over North America after WWII, but Howard Aero built new fuselages and wings using fixtures and jigs purchased from Lockheed, then duplicated. This was for all intense and puropse, a new plane. They only produced 17 500s and they cost in excess of $500k brand new back in the mid50s.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2008 - 01:59pm PT
Spent Tuesday up in the Valley where I was asked by Butch Farabee to put on a presentation to the Yosemite Alumni Association. It was a one hour talk about some of the things I've found out from my research. In the front row was Lee Shackleton, retired Chief Law Enforcement Ranger and retired Federal Magistrate, Judge Pitts. And a couple of rows back was Vern Clevenger. Ya gotta love the contrast.

For those that came over to speak to me afterwards, thanks so much for your time. It was great to finally put a face to a name/voice that I've talked to or shared email with over the past three and a half years.
petekuhn

climber
Berkeley
Nov 2, 2008 - 09:49pm PT
I saw an article about John Dill in the Chronicle, the day before watching No Country, and a Google search the next morning brought me to this thread. Two hours later I got to post 532. This is the best thing I've read on the Internet.

I think chainsaw's posts are prolly the best thing. He started out incredibly dumb, and did an about face. Kudos to you, and hope your climb continues to be as dramatic as it has been so far.

Rockjox's passages were also amazingly good. You could almost smell the weed juice on the floor of the shuttle bus, the antifreeze cloud coming off his car, and the sweat reeking from his paranoia.

The Mountain Gazette article was amazingly good. I will always treasure the scene in the Ahwanee dining room, with the climbing bums toasting the Curry Company executives.

The details about the plane seem inane. Hell, the plane was just an expensive truck to drive dope in. It's the contrast among the pilot and co-pilot, making millions taking dope to the States, and the rangers and cops trying to ride herd on the tourists and freaks overrunning Yosemite in the seventies, and the C4B's panhandling and diving dumpsters that makes the story, not where the plane came from. Oh, and it's also the Sierra, too. Some people will give a sh#t about the plane, but it's a minor, distracting note. It was a big, powerful plane, but the Sierra are bigger and more powerful, no? And prettier.

I guess that the back story that leads up to the crash will be the main focus of the book. I hope there will be some nicely drawn parallels between the pilots' risk taking and that of the climbers and rangers and cops in the story. I hope there will be some good arcs drawn for the lives of the various characters. And I hope there will be some sweet descriptions of the Sierra, including what it's like to fly over them, climb them, and police them.

But even if the book never happens, I'd like to thank everyone who posted on this for a really good read.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 3, 2008 - 10:07pm PT
Pete...when I gave my presentation at the Alumni Association's meet last Tusday, one of the retired Rangers came up to me. He said that all of the information was great, but when it came to the plane's history and the stats on it, he leaned forward in his seat. He has a keen interest in aircraft and this really got his attention.

You see, the story has so many angles. If you've read this thread from start to finish, you'll see how many people have so many interests in this story.

For those that have followed this airplane from its inception, all thought it was lost. Since there were only 17 ever made, all of the books ever published on the subject show it as "lost". Thirty years later it pops up with a very unique story behind it.

If you ever think you know how a drug organization works, or at least from back in the 70s, then you'll appreciate some of the stuff that I'm only now learning. No names, just situations. None of them climb, but the book with be of interest from their perspective.

So don't be too quick to think that the story is all about the drugs or the climbers.

Its like holding a cut diamond. You can never see all of the same sides at once.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Nov 9, 2008 - 06:27pm PT
now, mr. pitts was a good guy - we always laughed when he'd bring his own six-pack to the curry bar and not even tip the waitresses to sit there and take up a table - but he'd chat with anyone, and who wanted to be on the bad side of the local magistrate? little did he know, but i doubt anyone working would have charged him for beer - maybe he didn't like schlitz dark draught - only place i ever saw that brew was curry, did they have it made special?
sirloin of leisure

Gym climber
X
Nov 9, 2008 - 06:46pm PT
plane crashed
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2008 - 02:43am PT
Sirloin...am I missing something?
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Nov 10, 2008 - 03:07am PT
He may be suggesting that you cut to the chase, or at least get the book published.

In a related vein, have you sold the movie rights?
Blakey

Trad climber
Newcastle UK
Nov 10, 2008 - 06:55pm PT
I don't know if any Brits have contributed to this tale, but the general gist of it had made it over to the UK by 78 and was widley known in the climbing community - was it kinda reported in Mountain?

During the 78 summer season at Chamonix, I met two of your regulars from on here who were having a 'grand tour' on the back of the weed's proceeds. They were then pretty well at the end of their dollars and seemed to be living from hand to mouth! One went back to the US, the other came to the UK with his very attractive girlfriend, and stole at least one highly prized first free ascent - you know who you are!

It's been a fascinating thread, I look forward to the book - when it eventually happens!

Best,

Steve
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2008 - 07:11pm PT
Mighty...there is no chase here. This book isn't a novel with a punch line or an ending. Its a historical book with facts. If I went to print now people would be complaining that not all was told. If Sirloin has read at least three of the pages from this thread then he'd know what I'm talking about.

Movie rights? Nope, not until the book is finished. I have been approached, but I'm not interested until the book if finished.
graham

Social climber
Ventura, California
Nov 11, 2008 - 06:39pm PT
Blakey,

Hate to ruin a good story and not sure how many on here are just that, a good story... I fit your bill as the guy with the attractive girl friend and bagging several free ascents but my trip to the UK was paid for by “Portaledge sales” not pot.

Unfortunately or maybe fortunately we were out of state when the crash accrued. But I did get some good first hand stories running into some of the culprits on my trip back west on a stop in Idyllwild. I doubt if their money ran out any time soon after.

Don’t anyone email me for the details, it was too long ago.

Cheers,
Jaybro

Social climber
wuz real!
Nov 11, 2008 - 06:54pm PT
~"It doesn't matter, but I wish he didn't grab the rope." or similar.

I wish those thieves had not stolen my original model Gramicci ledge, veteren of several el cap routes.
Blakey

Trad climber
Newcastle UK
Nov 12, 2008 - 03:35pm PT
Mike,

Apologies, the passage of time and me making 2+2 add up to six! :-)

Best,

Steve
sully

Trad climber
CA
Nov 15, 2008 - 11:05am PT
Damn! This was the book I was planning on writing. Good for you Licky to get it down first. I agree with the post about less plane engineering detail, more climber and karma beta. I found Lynn Hill's Climbing Free chapter about the plane, the climbers, and karma fascinating. My other book idea is one full of Camp 4 stories from those there in the 70s and 80s. I was there the summer of '82.Does anyone think this book would go over well?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 16, 2008 - 12:10am PT
Well Sully, the guys that are interested in the plane think the climbers only figure into a small part of the story.

Again, its your own perspective that drives your interest. Thats what's so great about this story

Hate to tell you this about your book idea, but its been writen a number of times
sully

Trad climber
CA
Nov 20, 2008 - 09:53pm PT
Licky, I've heard of only one Camp 4 book of stories about the 50's and 60's. Can you tell me what the other ones are? I thought about focusing on the no-so-famous Camp 4 climbers. Also, have the Yos rangers and climbing instructors been able to be forthcoming with you or are they worried about employers suing them?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jan 16, 2009 - 11:25am PT
sully, read back on these posts - not all climbers lived in camp 4 - not even a majority, just ones with no means to find housing elsewhere - for so many to lump every rockjock into the same pigeonhole is mystifying to me - to really understand the scene then and appreciate the valley as it really was one should remember that many of us actually worked and took daily showers - and we didn't all eat off people's abandoned cafeteria trays - perhaps we weren't as celebrated as the camper-climbers in sunnyside, but we climbed each and every day just like they did, and experiened the spring/summer of 1977 similarly as well
richross

Trad climber
gunks,ny
Jan 16, 2009 - 11:37am PT
From mountain magazine.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 23, 2009 - 05:07pm PT
Hey Richross...do you know the date of that issue?

Its interesting to read about all of the errors that are posted in that article. Make one wonder about what other tid bits of misinformation is published in that magazine as well as others.
richross

Trad climber
gunks,ny
Jan 23, 2009 - 05:32pm PT
Mountain 56 July August 1977.

I met and climbed with Jack Dorn in the Gunks in 1976. He was east to visit his mom.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jan 27, 2009 - 02:35pm PT
Caylor/Hangster - i'll supress the urge to flame back at you, but my point is: if anyone wants this story to represent ONLY a clibers/Camp 4 perspective then i question why? i see relevance in the fact that some others who may not frequent climbing websites 30 years after the fact may have been there and done that - all while residing outside sunnyside. some others i know who were involved never (unbelievable, i know) rockclimbed at all. i just think their stories should be sought out and heard . . . and included in a comprehensive account. but you seem to resent my offering from the other side of the valley, does it somehow de-legitimize or de-glorify the tales from sunnyside? i don't believe it does. did the climbing community need an exclusive on an event to find glory? i don't believe so, but some PBs were as hostile to climbers they didn't camp with as the local surfers were at the favorite breaks in socal. i left there, and the competitive surfing community when i discovered climbing. i moved to the valley in 73 and embraced the noncompetitive mountain sports for, among other things, their lack of competitve macho posturing. it seemed silly when i would encounter arrogance in the climbing clique, when 99% were totally mellow and kind individuals. as for calling me a "little angry man", i understand the relevance of anger, but can't imagine why you assume i'm angry or care what you think for that matter. for the record, i'm not angry - i have no reason to be, not even at you. (i'm also not that little, if it matters). my guess is you, like most bullies/cyberbullies, somehow get self-gratification by insulting your peers. grow the f*#k up, okay? this forum was way more interesting before you got all huffy.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2009 - 11:46pm PT
Just had a very interesting conversation with one of the two guys that were the climbers on the rescue where Jack Dorn fell to his death. More to follow
Russ Walling

Social climber
Upper Fupa, North Dakota
Feb 16, 2009 - 09:07pm PT

he said , "PB"!!!111


hoo-ya! That one goes back a bit. Favored term of the Tools, Curry Gestapo, and the guys and gals that had it "maid" in Yosemite. Thanks for the flashback.
dinerogrande

Mountain climber
Mexico
Feb 19, 2009 - 06:51pm PT
With all the different books based on the "Dope Lake" crash, and the films such as "Cliffhanger" making vague references to it, it's certainly interesting to sort through these threads. I'm an independent producer, now in Mexico, working with a writer that has over 30 hours of taped interviews with several of the smugglers, living & dead, telling their stories in regards to this incident, and what transpired leading up to it. After painstaking research to weed out unsubstantiated "facts" and just plain folklore, we are close to laying out the story in a finished film script. Our big decision is what way to go with it. A 2.5 hr movie with most of the story, or a cable mini series (think Sopranos, Deadwood, etc) to put it all out there? This plane crash ended what appears to be one of the most well organized pot smuggling operations on the west coast, if not the U.S. at the time. The events that lead up to the unfortunate ending, are riveting, suspenseful, and at times even comical. Though our research has found no connection whatsoever to Mr. Dorn's demise, we do find unsettling facts that tend to lean towards the possible sabotage of the infamous plane, and we will present those thoughts in a non-litigious fashion in our film. We are not concerned, in regards to the film, with much of the aftermath, ie; recovery, salvage, and the "gold rush", but if anyone wishes to share valid and factual (first hand) information on any details of the smuggling operation or it's members relationships, we would like to hear from you. If it could enhance or otherwise validate what we have accomplished, mention in credits and/or possible financial compensation will be considered. Thanks, C.A.
Gene

climber
Feb 19, 2009 - 07:09pm PT
Mr. Big Money,

Do you mean I can *really* get my name in the credits at the end of your blockbuster, Oscar winning film. I'll say whatever you want as long as I get to share in the dinero grande. Now if dinero actually means your Mr. De Niro, my apolgies.

Post up a resume.

gm
dinerogrande

Mountain climber
Mexico
Feb 19, 2009 - 07:22pm PT
Hey Gene,
Didn't think it was needed, but I guess I should have put a disclaimer in there... only serious need apply.
Thanks for the laugh. C.A.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Feb 19, 2009 - 10:03pm PT
"Didn't think it was needed, but I guess I should have put a disclaimer in there... only serious need apply."

Oh HO! Are you ever in the wrong place. If you'll accept only serious communiques, you might as well close up shop and donate that dinero grande as seed money to our soon-to-be-established Down N Out Poor Climber's Fund.


....But I wonder if the mention of a movie deal is going to put a flame under Licky's butt on his book.... Three years since the first post, isn't it?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 19, 2009 - 10:18pm PT
Ya think Mr. Dinero would want to talk to me?
Wonder

climber
WA
Feb 19, 2009 - 10:41pm PT
yeah I think you should have blackened out a bunch of those names in the Yosemite Notes. Some of that is classified.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 19, 2009 - 10:49pm PT
Wonder if I could do the same with a phone interview.

"Hi, I'm (pause) and I can tell you about (pause) who (pause...pause)
after he and (pause) ran up to (pause...pause...pause)".

Yeah, I could sanitize a phone conversation.
Wonder

climber
WA
Feb 19, 2009 - 11:40pm PT
if your writing to me Licky You have forgotten because It's been so long since you outted about righting a book. I lived way far south @ the time. Sometimes we would have Guests. Sometimes they sleep on the floor.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 20, 2009 - 02:40am PT
Rok...I've been thinking about your comment about the first to
the bank wins. That was how it used to be. Now it all depends on
which bank you selected.
LeBob

Gym climber
san francisco
Feb 20, 2009 - 04:56am PT
I was a senior in high school in '77 and one of my girlfriend's friends was a climber in the valley––Martha ( she changed her name or climbed/competed under the name, Jade . . . anyway) and since I'd biked (as in Schwinn Varsity) there a few times, from san jose, she asked if I could escort her there . . . upon arriving in camp 4, we learned about the plane crash and the news that all the climbers and so on were hiking up in the night and retreiving the bales of pot.

One of the many climbers in the camp, was a guy named Jack. He had a big head of hair and a scraggly beard and if I recall, drove a total beater mustang convertible. I think the joke with Jack was," Hey Jack, what'd you have for breakfast?" and he'd pull something out of his beard, "Looks like eggs?"

So one night Jack went up and early in the morning, he finds Martha and somewhat reluctantly shows the two of us his haul––a somewhat gas smelling bale of pot, drying in the back of his mustang. He took off shortly there after, as the law were everywhere.

A few days later, in rolls Jack. He'd shaved his entire head and beard off and bought a new . . . or used but fine, red caddy convertible???? I'd only met him briefly, but I recognized him, even with the complete shave job. Martha didn't.

I left the valley maybe a week later and sadly, Jack, who was on the local rescue team, got called out to go rescue someone and as I heard it, walked off a switch-back in the dark of night with bad weather, Bummer. If anyone knows of the whereabouts of good old Martha, I'd love to say hello and to Jack, I'm thinking of ya.


dinerogrande

Mountain climber
Mexico
Feb 20, 2009 - 12:17pm PT
RE; Lodestar '77 Crash.. Anyone who can put the correct names to these initials, feel free to email me direct. A few are easy, a matter of record. But only someone really in the know will have the rest. I'm not yanking ropes here. The project is very real. Thanks, C.A.
JN / JG / JS / MC / PG / JB / TB
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 21, 2009 - 02:17am PT
How about a friendly suggestion? Why not start your own thread, provide your name like
I have, and see what you get in the way of responses?
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Feb 21, 2009 - 11:17am PT
licky,

did you ever get that photo i sent you of the park service sign?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 21, 2009 - 01:46pm PT
Bullwinkle...haven't heard/talked to you for quite a while.
Hope all is well...do you mean the red one?
Jaybro

Social climber
wuz real!
Feb 21, 2009 - 02:36pm PT
I forgot that Cosgrove was in Nacho Libre.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 21, 2009 - 10:28pm PT
Hey Dinerogrande, does Walter Shaeffer ring a bell?
dinerogrande

Mountain climber
Mexico
Feb 21, 2009 - 11:32pm PT
Senor Licky,
ShAEffer is a very rare spelling. Do you perhaps mean ShEAffer? If so, do you mean former Illinois Supreme Court Justice Walter Sheaffer? Or perhaps Walter Sheaffer inventor of the fountain pen? Either way, both are dead now and I strongly believe neither have any place in the film we are producing. If in fact we did know "Mr. Shaeffer", we certainly wouldn't out him, any of our sources, or any of the principle protagonists here, or in any other medium. I'm sure you play by those standards also, correct?
For what it’s worth sir, we are not using real names in the film, but we are basing it upon fact. I’m only slightly offended by your suggestion for me to start my own thread, as obviously one can choose to ignore any posts here as they wish. I don’t believe from what I have read here that our film is a threat to your book project, as the entire theme as it were, appears to be from a different angle. The crash itself is the climax of our story. Some of what occurred after that is touched upon in the resolution, but that will be mostly voice over and a few minutes of film. This is not a story about the "gold rush".
As for me "outing" myself, I choose for numerous reasons not to put my name or number out here for everyone. My request for direct email in an earlier post has resulted in several contacts, and we will measure their validity and sincerity on a case by case basis.
In closing, as the "philosopher" Rodney King once said, “Can’t we just all get along?” I sincerely hope so. C.A.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 21, 2009 - 11:51pm PT
Ahhh...the thick plotens.

Maybe I ought to tell everyone to ignore my real name and phone
number
Jaybro

Social climber
wuz real!
Feb 22, 2009 - 12:05am PT
I may write a book about the writing of this book as seen through the lens of supertaco.
drljefe

climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
Feb 22, 2009 - 12:11am PT
"Mucho take it eeeaaaasy"
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2009 - 12:32am PT
Now THERE is an angle!
dinerogrande

Mountain climber
Mexico
Feb 22, 2009 - 02:55pm PT
Hola Senor Licky,
Check your email for an olive branch.
Chaz
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2009 - 05:48pm PT
Olive branch accepted, thanks for the email.

Its ok guys, he's good.
Fletcher

Trad climber
the campfire just a ways past Chris' Taco stand
Feb 22, 2009 - 06:54pm PT
This is one of my all time favorite threads. It's interesting, is not incessantly over posted, but keeps on living and popping up from time to time with new and interesting elements. Kind of a "The Making of..." before the thing is actually made. Maybe Jaybro is on to something.

Fletch
jstan

climber
Feb 22, 2009 - 07:47pm PT
Great read also makes it clear why the plane finished up in the drink.

It flew like a crowbar.

http://www.flightsimonline.com/howard500/Howard500history.htm


Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2009 - 12:24am PT
jstan...yep, and I managed to find one of the four mechanics that
flew around North America after WWII looking for PV-1 Venturas
to bring back to Texas so they could use the parts in the Howard
500s. He had some great stories.

I also found the chief mechanic for this particular plane when it
was owned by the Republic Steel Company in Ohio back in the 50s.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2009 - 01:29am PT
Well remember that one of the wings was found in the trees as
well as there are still body parts laying in the area. Some were
found two summers ago.

The plane was upside down, nose high, fuselage broken
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2009 - 01:49am PT
The bodies were recovered and together I guess you could say, one still strapped in his seat.

Butch Farabee dove the site and provided the FBI with finger prints
from the finger tips that were sent back to the FBI labs for I.D.
Uh...he did it months before the bodies were recovered
corniss chopper

Mountain climber
san jose, ca
Feb 23, 2009 - 02:53am PT
think several Lodestars would fit into that lake but would they
be able to sink completely? Maybe if broken into pieces.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2009 - 03:43am PT
Someone want to step up to the mic and announce what kind of
plane this was?
Jaybro

Social climber
wuz real!
Feb 23, 2009 - 05:33am PT
I believe that is a sopwith Camel.

actually soon to look more like a Junkers.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2009 - 05:45am PT
Yeth, an entire squadron of the beasties.

Nothing like a Sopwith Junkers
Caveman

climber
Cumberland Plateau
Feb 23, 2009 - 12:12pm PT
"Someone want to step up to the mic and announce what kind of
plane this was?"


A hotrod. A thing of beauty. Not that hard to fly, just a bit harder than normal to take off and land. (Howard 500)
I can certainly see why this aircraft was used.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_500

"General characteristics

Crew: Two (pilot and co-pilot)
Capacity: 19 passengers
Length: 60 ft 6 in (17.82 m)
Wingspan: 72 ft 4 in (21.44 m)
Height: 14 ft 0 in (4.27 m)
Empty weight: 24,000 lb (10,910 kg)
Gross weight: 34,565 lb (15,710 kg)
Powerplant: 2 × Pratt & Whitney R-2800-CB17, 2,500 hp (1,870 kW) each"
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2009 - 06:32pm PT
Hey Rok...nice lead in for the next subject. That plane Sky King
flew was called a Queen Air. They (the Gliskys) also flew one of
those for hauling cargo. Fully gutted and lined with plastic.
dinerogrande

Social climber
Mexico
Feb 23, 2009 - 09:01pm PT
Out of the clear blue of the western sky comes Sky King...

For what it's worth..according to 50's web tv info....

In the earlier episodes, Sky King's plane was a Cessna T-50 twin-engine "Bamboo Bomber." The more familiar plane was Songbird, a Cessna 310B

Sadly, actor Kirby Grant (Sky King) died in 1985 in an automobile accident while on his way to watch a launch of the Space Shuttle Challenger at Cape Canaveral. He was to be honored by the shuttle astronauts for his achievements in encouraging aviation and space flight.

As I recall not a good day for the Challenger crew either.
C.A.
http://www.tvacres.com/aircraft_civilian_songbird.htm
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2009 - 09:33pm PT
The things you learn on SuperTaco!
his badness

climber
Feb 23, 2009 - 11:45pm PT
***Dearest Licky and his sidekick Dinerogrande (Super Taco),
I do not get on here often but everytime I do, It upsets me and I am amazed at the lack of your facts. I have always been here for the truth. Your two are bantering over this Walter Shaeffer(?) individual---never heard of him... He must be your "missing link"? You can take the measurements of a Howard 500/ Lockeed Loadstar, the size of a lake, various slide shows, ranger accounts, initials of people you have never meet or never will... What ever accounts you have, started when the plane hit the trees and carshed into the lake---before that you have NOTHING but false information and speculation. I have just read, Licky, your orginal line of this crash---and this goes for you, too, Super Taco and the information you SEEK, you still DO NOT have! Interview who you wish and you will find just an bunch of "wanna be's" that never were and never will be "the truth"! "First one to the bank wins" is that what you two all all about? How about the first one to THE TRUTH WINS? Did you ever think about that or is it all greed for you two?

Licky, the Queen Air is a twin engine, tricycle gear airplane and Skyking's plane was a split-tail, tail dragger. You said the Glisky's did runs in that plane? I have never met Pam and God bless her and her daughter for having to go through all this but I did not know she had a pilot's lic. and flew missions with Jon? Who told you it was "gutted" and had plastic down? What does gutted mean? Sounds like a fairy tale from the truth. I was around that airplane many times and never saw Pam or a bunch of plastic???????

Dinerogrande, please try to drop more than initials---very interesting to the masses. What about to and from and who and when? Keep searching....you and Licky and trying to pan gold out of tap water... Good Luck, The Duke of Badness.

Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2009 - 12:40am PT
Well, I guess that is the end to this story. I wish all well,
thanks for the run, it was fun.

NOT

Nor do I flame here, but selective reading like selective memory
can be debilitating
dinerogrande

Social climber
Mexico
Feb 24, 2009 - 12:48am PT
Mr. B.
If you check MY posts, the only "facts" I presented here, were initials. I stand by that post as factual info. If you are in the know, email me directly. I'm confident that I can convince you. I have a feeling I know who you are. I do not wish to air discussions containing any details here. As for the Walter Shaeffer subject, or who flew what plane, how many 500's does it take to unscrew a lightbulb, etc. etc .... again, please, check my posts. I'm pleading not guilty, on all counts.
Hope to hear from you soon.
C.A.
Wonder

climber
WA
Feb 24, 2009 - 12:53am PT
Whoa the plot thickens - heavy hitters.
Caveman

climber
Cumberland Plateau
Feb 24, 2009 - 12:55am PT
They're hitting something!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2009 - 03:36am PT
I'm ducking and weaving, shaking in my boots, wondering if
Obama knows about this and if so, can I get a bale out?
Jaybro

Social climber
wuz real!
Feb 24, 2009 - 05:46am PT
"bale out"-haha!
MisterE

Trad climber
One Place or Another
Feb 25, 2009 - 12:03pm PT
Mysterious bump
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 26, 2009 - 08:58pm PT
Here is an interesting video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOzna2XA4sY
dmalloy

Trad climber
eastside
Feb 26, 2009 - 09:02pm PT
just for anyone else reading, ^^^ that is not an interesting video, altho the live Alanis Morrissette soundtrack is also not interesting.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Feb 26, 2009 - 09:03pm PT
Nice vid, but I could do without the audio (I did knott waste one second hitting the mute button)...
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 26, 2009 - 09:09pm PT
If I had control over things like the audio I'd have beat everyone
to it.

As for the video not being interesting I know its tough when
someone says "change the channel", but its always an option.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 26, 2009 - 09:19pm PT
No Rok, its a flight simulator that a couple of guys put together.
The image of the plane is based on the only, still flying
Howard 500 that is based in Minnisoda.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 26, 2009 - 09:25pm PT
Check this out

http://howard500.com/
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 26, 2009 - 10:08pm PT
N80BD was the N or tail number.

Doing a look up on each Howard 500 might be an interesting side note.
I have the entire list of their tail numbers as well as serial numbers.
Think I'll do that.

Thanks for the thought.

As I look at the production notes, this plane was the 4th to come
off the production line. If you can call it a production line.

By the way, here is an interesting (word used loosely) bit of data
for the Howard 500.

At only 44% power, the air speed at 16,000 feet was 330mph.
The Howard 500's maximum cruising speed was 350mph at 21,000 feet.
You see, this was a pressurized aircraft
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 21, 2009 - 01:13pm PT
YAWN!
i realize the need for the airplane tech stuff, but minimize it in the book, unless you want to lose readers - we dont care if it was a lodestar or a whatever, the story suffers from details that only a pilot would find interesting - and i grew up flying private planes - my dad would eat those details up, but pilots are singleminded and focused more on a plane's flight characteristics than the overall story - my previous offer holds if you need a peer review from an english major let me know(trust me, we all need editing and advice on out writing projects) - there's more than just grammar to worry about, readability is key - and again, plane details are best left for another venue, a sidebar perhaps - find a lively pace for your narrative and keep it simple . . . and active

sidmo
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 21, 2009 - 02:32pm PT
This thread is the chinese water troll.
luggi

Trad climber
Atwater, CA
Apr 21, 2009 - 03:14pm PT
Just for yuks...instead of Obama bucks for stimulus...maybe another crash..hoping all parachuted out ok..20 mile hike and everyone buys new cars and pays off their homes. Yosemite climbers and all lived very well for a short while after that as I recall...or don't. Was Carter president? Geez where is the home.....
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 23, 2009 - 03:43am PT
Sidmo, if you scroll back you see many of my previous posts about this subject. The book will not be just about the climbers finding the dope or the plane's technical specifications or the DEA's investigation. It will be about it all. If the facts about the plane bore you, flip the pages. But for some it is very interesting. It actually is the reason why this event took place in the first place. Prior to this plane, they could not have attempted this route.

I wish I could post great news that the book has gone to the publisher, but the fact is that there is still a ton of info coming in. The DEA has finally concluded the sanitation of their files and will be sending them to me. There are a few loose ends that have to be cleaned up with regards to the drug organization. Our friend "His Badness" has helped to contribute to the fraying of those ends. When ever I recieve contradictory information I have to launch into a full scale investigation to either prove or disprove comments and statements. I refuse to publish a story that is filled with someone's stories unless they can be verified. I'm sure any reader would appreciate that.

So the fat lady hasn't sung yet.
Jaybro

Social climber
wuz real!
Apr 23, 2009 - 04:01am PT
Yeah, but consider, you can publish an account that contains 'a story that is filled with someone's stories" as part of the whole, if it is labeled as such; afterall, the legend (and how it came to be) is as big a story as whatever, actually, happened....

Meanwhile, We're not, any of us, getting any younger........
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2009 - 02:15am PT
Rox...I'd have to say your stories ought to fall into the...uh...stories chapter? Ya think? Good stuff though.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 6, 2009 - 01:32pm PT
licky, i was referring to the book really - i know i can read the threads selectivly for content that interests me, but i fear that your adventure history will get bogged down early with mundane details - if you are writing for flying magazine (if it still exists, my dad was a pilot, and subscriber - he would have loved all the details you're threading, but if you market a book to pilots you're going to sell few books - or to climbers, or potheads, or any interest group)the trick is to write a narrative that informs without boring lay readers - the new yorker magazine does a great job of this - they publish articles about specific scientific subjects but make the stories human and interesting . . . and more important, readable - most people don't care as much about exactly what model plane it was as they would about what the dudes spent their money on - bring out details as the narrative flows, but avoid roadblocks of mundane minutiae.
Jim Wilcox

Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
May 6, 2009 - 02:07pm PT
Maybe Licky will do a Cliff notes version. Condensed versions are great for making the decisions for the reader on what they really need to know.
Reader's Digest can take a 300 page book and whittle it down to 20. Makes you appreciate how much time the original author wasted :)
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 6, 2009 - 02:15pm PT
more on details . . . i guess what i'm saying licky is that you seem to believe that readers will skip boring passages and read the later, more interesting chapters - my guess is that more people will simply set the book down - nothing ever killed a good story faster than technical details - unless your writing is so strong that a lay reader will follow the stuff they don't care about you're going to work hard on a book that will likely be rejected - herman melville did well interjecting minutiae in moby dick (there are chapters detailing the tools used in nineteenth century whaling) but he's also one of the greatest novelists that has ever lived - you'll need a publisher, who will want a compelling narrative - sure, you can self-publish, but how will you distribute without a publisher?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 6, 2009 - 02:19pm PT
jim has a good point - a great book to work with is elements of style by strunk and white - it stresses the importance of writing economically - too much about tail numbers will bore readers who want to read a story - unless the book is to be an academic tome, like a textbook on a particular historical event written for a graduate level history class
Jim Wilcox

Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
May 6, 2009 - 04:18pm PT
We just need to remember that the crashing of the plane really is sorta of the epilogue to this story, a whole lot transpired over a huge length of time before that one, last fateful trip.
Reilly

Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
May 6, 2009 - 05:23pm PT
"Prior to this plane, they could not have attempted this route."

Seems to me a Beech 18 would have been perfect for this 'route'. Lots around back then and cheap. You
still see 'em but now they're hung with PW PT6's.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 7, 2009 - 06:17pm PT
roxjox is right - remember this is an adventure story - you could even use flashbacks to show the preliminaries, after hooking the readers on some early action - the first sentence and paragraph need to inspire readers to keep reading - i'd think the set-up might be slow going, but interesting once you had the reader's curiousity piqued
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2009 - 08:28pm PT
I appreciate everyone's thoughts and suggestions. So far I have
13 chapters. Each is a story all by itself, but they are obviously
all connected.

And don't worry, I'm not going to be spending too much time about
how much force was needed to shear a 1/2 bolt hardened to ....well,
I think you get my drift.
WBraun

climber
May 7, 2009 - 09:08pm PT
You should make the whole book only 13 chapters.

Heh heh heh, it'll freak em out .....
Chicken Skinner

Trad climber
Yosemite
May 7, 2009 - 09:21pm PT
Good one Werner!

Ken
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2009 - 10:49am PT
Now Werner, THAT is the best suggestion yet. Thanks
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 8, 2009 - 09:34pm PT
is DG translated: a southern accent named dave+a (brand of razor blades), and if so, i'd love his email adress-or send him here
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 15, 2009 - 12:42am PT
Just received my FOIA request results from the DEA. Amazing how
long they had these guys under the eyeball. Its also amazing how
many times they escaped detection or once detained, slipped out
of the grasp of the Feds.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
May 15, 2009 - 11:24pm PT
Dude! We will all be dead by the time you print this!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 16, 2009 - 04:16am PT
Had I published the book, the DEA's files would not have been
included. But then again, who wants facts?
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
May 16, 2009 - 01:09pm PT
Its the chinese water troll.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 16, 2009 - 11:11pm PT
drip......drip......drip
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 24, 2009 - 03:26am PT
Ok...here's an excerpt from the DEA's reports.

File Number R2-73-0322
The Mooney 21, N 6946U, arrived at Montgomery Field, San Diego, California, on September 12, 1972, piloted by GLISKY. He purchased 28.8 gallons of fuel on September 16, 1972. The aircraft departed sometime prior to 6:00am., and arrived later that day (September 16, 1972), with wing damage, showing dirt, and brush marks. The aircraft was repaired at Coast Air Corporation, Mongomery Field. GLISKY paid over $900 cash for the repairs and on September 28, 1972, departed.

So that is verbatim from the DEA's files. Obviously the DEA was on to them long before the crash in Yosemite, but it appears that for over four years they couldn't catch him. The plane that crashed into Lower Merced Pass Lake was only one of many that were used.
fourmiletrail

climber
May 24, 2009 - 05:44am PT
Was that weed from like Michoacan (e.g. central Mexico) and basically from the Mexican cartel that we know more about in present day ?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 26, 2009 - 11:43am PT
I'm going to have to guess about the cartel. I think this was during the precartelian era.
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
May 26, 2009 - 11:49am PT
What happened to your trip to the Seattle/Portland area?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2009 - 02:18am PT
Simon, it worked out just fine, thanks for asking
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2009 - 02:58am PT
They didn't buy the Howard 500 until late 1976. This was in 1972 and the plane was a Mooney Mark 21. Looks like the fuel capacity was
around 51 or 52 gallons. So the pilot must have been just under
half when he refueled.
Majid_S

Mountain climber
Bay Area
May 27, 2009 - 03:04am PT
Ok, Mooney make sense cause their engine is smaller so 28 gal goes much longer.

By the way, I worked on mooney and radial engines similar to H 500 and I know the Howard 500 are gas sucker.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2009 - 03:05am PT
This was also prior to them purchasing the Queenair

I spoke with the mechanic for the plane when it was owned by the
Republic Steel Company in Ohio. He said it would go through about
125 gallons of fuel and 2 gallons of oil each hour of flight time.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 3, 2009 - 06:09pm PT
Just found out that one of the many planes they used was a Beech E18S. Nice plane!
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jun 4, 2009 - 03:10pm PT
yawn-ola!!
not many pilots in the world, even less airplane mechanics and afficianadoes
i still think that the sociological ramifications of "the plane" are way more interesting to readers, and the history of the weed and the unique community in the valley is what folks will seize on - again, read moby dick - if you can spin sentences like melville, then devote chapters to minutae - but since no writer has approached that level in over a century tell the damn story - slip details in a paragraph at a time, and we'll learn something despite our desire to read a narrative - again, read the new yorker and get a handle on how there writers spin tales of subjects that the avarage reader has no knowlege of nor interest in yet produce pageturners week after week
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 4, 2009 - 07:58pm PT
Uhh....good idea
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Jun 4, 2009 - 08:17pm PT
This started on May 21, 2005, 07:35pm PT. This thread recently passed the 4 year mark. I wish I could dedicate a mere month to a project before getting bored with it. This is almost amazing that Licky even remembers to look here from time to time.

Dave
Reilly

Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
Jun 4, 2009 - 08:17pm PT
Can't believe they used a Mooney for going into dirt strips. They are really low-riders. The Mooney is also a 'floater' on landing, not a good characteristic for a 'bush plane'. A nice Cessna 210 would carry twice as much without having to worry about dragging a wing.

As I said upthread the Beech 18 is the way to go. Most bang (payload/gal/mile) for the buck.

I hope you explain why they used this route. If they were flying up from Baja it would make a lot more sense to go up the east side of the Sierras, unless you like living dangerously.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2009 - 01:59am PT
rector...if the information was becoming stagnat or unreliable then
I'd probably have quit by now. I'd have to say that almost daily
I am contacted by someone with more information. Whether its about
the plane, the stories around the drug running, or those in and
around Yosemite with their particular twist on the event, it still
keeps flowing in.

Since this site as well as many of the posters have helped me
with so many stories and tid bits of info, I find it only proper
to keep posting here with more on the subject. Sorry to those that
feel that the entire story is about a rock, a plane, and some dope.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 6, 2009 - 02:37am PT
As I said, the information flow is daily. Today I recieved 22
pages from the US Customs Department. Of course its been sanitized,
but very readable stuff. Dates all the way back to 1972

This was before his "Badness" was participating
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 12, 2009 - 04:04pm PT
Just had an interesting conversation with a guy that had dinner with the two pilots the evening prior to their last flight. I'd been looking for him for quite a few years and he just popped up this morning with a phone call. He has some great stories about their early days as well as flying with Glisky when they were stationed in Viet Nam.
Jim Wilcox

Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
Jul 12, 2009 - 05:14pm PT
The guy who worked for San Joaquin Helicopters?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 12, 2009 - 07:27pm PT
Jim, check your email
Gobee

Trad climber
Los Angeles
Jul 27, 2009 - 02:32am PT
I was there sort of, I twisted my ankle, up Tenaya Cyn, so I drove my buds to the trail head, and lets say I wasn't paid in gas. Of course I got the book. Haven't toasted in years, one time after I quit I had like one hit and it was like I was on acid, wow, that was it!

S.Leeper

Sport climber
Austin, Texas
Jul 27, 2009 - 02:47am PT
not anymore 667
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2009 - 02:55am PT
t*r...If I published the book now, and there were facts that were
either missing or incorrect, what would be your reaction? This book
isn't going to be a novel. Its going to be a historical book based
on facts that have been supported by many interviews as well as documented
reports. Anyone can take an event and crank out a comic book. Thats
not what I'm doing and I'm sure those that follow this thread seriously
don't want me to do so either. So hang in there, its coming together
as we speak.

I don't blow smoke.....as they say!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jul 27, 2009 - 07:10am PT
I always wondered if they would make a movie about that one.

Maybe Kevin Costner to play Rockjox?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2009 - 01:56am PT
Jaybro, I think you might be on to something. How about everyone chime in on who they think ought to play them if Hollywierd shows an interest.
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
nowhere, I'm headed for certain doom
Aug 1, 2009 - 01:59am PT
I blow smoke......shotgun style!
If you're gonna....do it right.
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
nowhere, I'm headed for certain doom
Aug 1, 2009 - 02:08am PT
Naw, He would need to be appropriately bruised & such.
Think he would suffer for art? Maybe....
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2009 - 02:09am PT
There ya go...elusive, but also to the point
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2009 - 02:23am PT
I just watched the movie with Kevin Bacon and Merrill Steep where they were going down white water. She was the heroin and he was the villain. He was great in that roll as the insane bad guy.


added: dayuum speel chek
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
nowhere, I'm headed for certain doom
Aug 1, 2009 - 02:26am PT
Heroin?
Heroine? Good luck with that.
I'd love to play the psycho killer. RAD!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 1, 2009 - 02:43am PT
You talkin' smack?
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
nowhere, I'm headed for certain doom
Aug 1, 2009 - 02:52am PT
Smack is as Smack does, sir.
That's all I have to say about that.
Stupid Chocolates!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 21, 2009 - 12:29am PT
Found a guy that had dinner with the two pilots the night prior
to the fateful crash. I'll be spending a day shortly with him to
get his story about the discussion that went on that evening.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Aug 21, 2009 - 12:30am PT
Uh,...
Make sure you milk it out.
his badness

climber
Aug 22, 2009 - 12:08am PT
Licky you sure are doing great with your investigation! Maybe this guy that had dinner with "the guys" knows Randy MHead? Maybe you can get four hours of tape from this guy, too? Guaranteed that dinner did not take place the night before. Let me know where they stayed that night and had dinner and what they actually ate for dinner because I know a little bird that chirped in my ear some of the facts you so dearly want....Better put this is one of your "fantasy only" chapters....But interesting reading non the less. Still love your effort and always will! Your factual chapters will be your strong points...Going back to the "bond" thing...you coming up here for other business and me spending $367.00 on a meal for two chance meetings does not constitute, as far as I am concerned, a "bond". People putting their lives on the line everyday for each other for many years....and I know many following this thread will never understand because everyone has their own version of a "bond" but I know the one we had and it can never be equaled. I also know Pam, even though their marriage was not doing well at the time, knows the bond I am talking about....I am not sure you have grasped that Licky but I may be wrong? Please do not think bad of me for my outburst.....I only want the best for you and all of the time you have invested in your project will be very interesting reading....B.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Aug 22, 2009 - 03:39am PT
t*r...If I published the book now, and there were facts that were either missing or incorrect, what would be your reaction?

There will always be facts missing and incorrect. You can work on this thing for another 20 years and you still won't have "all the facts." You will never have "all the facts."

At some point you have to decide whether you are enjoying a lifetime hobby, or writing a book.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 23, 2009 - 08:26pm PT
I'll not turn this thread into a rant nor a response to a troll.

And Ghost, there are still quite a few loose ends that I'm trying
to tie up. Have you ever tried to write a historical book?

Our friend Badness is part of the wild goose chases
that I have been sent on. They are time consuming, expensive, and
frustrating. I guess they are just part of the territory.
sully

Trad climber
CA
Aug 23, 2009 - 09:32pm PT
Licky, the offer still stands if you want a free edit. I go back to work in San Jose tomorrow. Not sure if you are still located there. (I'm the one who edited the Pat Tillman book.)
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 23, 2009 - 10:07pm PT
Thanks Sully, check your email
sully

Trad climber
CA
Aug 26, 2009 - 10:43pm PT
Licky-haven't gotten your e-mail. Sent you e-mail via Supertopo, but I guess it didn't get through either.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 30, 2009 - 04:22am PT
Sully, you get my email?
sully

Trad climber
CA
Aug 30, 2009 - 10:56am PT
Licky- My supertopo emails aren't going through. Haven't gotten an email from you. What to do...
Sully
tonesfrommars

climber
Aug 30, 2009 - 03:38pm PT
EPIC thread! I'm gonna publish it verbatim and make a quick buck.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 3, 2009 - 02:48pm PT
Sully, use this email addy: ricknie@aol.com
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 7, 2009 - 02:33am PT
You've all read the posting of "His Badness" regarding this event.
This weekend I'll be meeting with one of the original partners of
Jon Glisky, long before His Badness was playing.

His stories are about what went on before the big plane
was purchased. Stay tuned...
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Sep 7, 2009 - 03:00am PT
And Ghost, there are still quite a few loose ends that I'm trying to tie up. Have you ever tried to write a historical book?

It's possible that you know things about writing and editing publications of a historical nature, and indeed writing and editing generally, that ghost doesn't. But it ain't at all likely. Trust me.
aguacaliente

climber
Sep 7, 2009 - 05:11am PT
Licky,

A book or a big research project accumulates a hideous amount of detail and loose ends that it is tempting to run down and there is always some more piece of research that can be done. Exploring is more fun than the drudgery of shaping facts into a book that reads well, but you can't put that off forever. Eventually the level of ever-expanding detail becomes a huge dead weight that drags down the author and the project. Only you can decide when to stop exploring and finish writing, but if you ever want to communicate what you found to other people, eventually you're going to have to cut the rope.


Jim Wilcox

Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
Sep 7, 2009 - 12:37pm PT
Doesn't matter if it was done and printed, not the greatest time to release anything, economy wise.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 7, 2009 - 09:43pm PT
Rok...you been reading my email when I wasn't in again!
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Sep 7, 2009 - 09:58pm PT
And he hasn't even begun to look into the wolf angle.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Sep 8, 2009 - 02:41pm PT
Please! Everyone knows that the wolves were dumped in Idaho and the dope in California. All those California ecofreak climbers just wish there had been wolves at the crash site to keep away the rangers.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Sep 9, 2009 - 07:33am PT
Didn't Rox become involved with that plane crash in an effort to keep the wolf from the door? isn't that where and how it all began?

"The plane came by and I got on that's how it all began...
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2009 - 12:15am PT
I think he had in his hands the remote control that night.

And then were was......9/11
Jim Wilcox

Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
Sep 11, 2009 - 01:01am PT
Found this awhile ago. Looks like a slide show presentation Farabee may have done. The relevant photos start at 79. If you look at all 94 frames there's a few that'll make you wince.
slide show
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2009 - 03:29am PT
Just when you think people are straight with you, you realize that
very quickly there is more to the story.

Thanks...
Slowhand

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Oct 3, 2009 - 03:37am PT
Licky -

I friend of mine who lived in the valley for years was one of the people who originally dicovered the wing of the plane in '77. I have told this story a hundred times and recently shared it with a friend on a weekend boating trip (admittedly, some details of my telling may have gotten a bit fuzzy, but the essence is acturate). Today, I decided to do a search on the web and ran across this forum thread.

I worked in the dining room at the Ahwahnee in the summer of '75. It was a summer job between semesters at Southern Illinois University, where I studied photography. A couple of weeks before leaving Yosemite for school there came a knock at the door of my tent cabin. It was two brothers from Chicago, where I grew up. They had heard from a mutual friend that I was living in Yosemite and had come with the intention of making the valley their home. I introduced them to the manager at the Ahwahnee dining room and they were hired on the spot.

I left the valley, finished school and returned to Yosemite valley in June of 1977. This time it was I who came knocking on their tent cabin door. My friends were still living in Yosemite, working at the Ahwahnee. Immediately, they told me about their winter overnight trip in the backcountry, finding the wing of the plane, and returning to the valley and alerting the authorities. At that point, they were unaware the crashed plane was part of a drug smuggling operation.

I had another friend (from my school) who was the night desk person at Yosemite Lodge. The men who were doing the recovery at the lake (possibly customs agents, not sure of the agency) were staying at the Lodge. This friend was getting daily briefs from the recovery crew as they returned to their rooms at the end of the day. One day, while I was visiting that June, he told me they had recovered the bodies of the pilots.

The story I was told by my friends who found the wing, was that park rangers had investigated the crash at the lake, discovered the drugs, and returned to Yosemite Village with some of the evidence. Apparently, they had deemed the conditions too harsh to begin a recovery at that time. The pot they had brought back to the valley was stored in a building that had once been a jail in the village. It wasn't long before word of the seized contriband leaked to the small valley community and my friends, who knew where evidence had come from.

I sat in their tent cabin that June and watched a slide show with photos of their trip to the lake, them posing with the wing, etc. A friend of there's had been to Nepal on profits from what they called "PCP", plane crash pot. According to them, the guy who had made out the best was the guy selling the "I Got Mine..." t-shirts. There were rumors of a large quanity of cocaine sealed in fire extinguishers that sank to the bottom of the lake.

If you haven't already talked to my friends (they weren't climbers), I'm not sure I would be much help in contacting them. I haven't seen them in 30+ years. I've often wondered if they still have the 35mm slides from the lake. My recollection is that they have the entire pre-recovery part of the story at the lake documented in those photographs. Good luck with the book. Would love to be on the mailing list if you're keeping one.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2009 - 10:01pm PT
Thanks Slowhand. It was good to speak with you last night.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 8, 2009 - 01:19am PT
Rok..you are absolutley correct.

It appears that because this was right after the end of the cold war, the Russians had joined forces with the Canadians to bring Mexican dope through Alaska using old USSR submarines. They were staging the dope in the Aleutians using old crab boats for cover. The dope was destined for the north coast of Japan. Eventually the Japanese were going to hide the dope in new Hondas, Toyotas, and Datsuns that were destined for the secret inland port of Mexico City.

I'm still piecing it all together, but I'm getting close.
Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Oct 8, 2009 - 01:27am PT
I heard they were running it across the border strapped to wolves.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Oct 8, 2009 - 06:21am PT
Licky-

As some one who has lived in Japan 25 years, I seriously doubt the Japanese angle. Their quality control standards are just too high. Meeting up with a delivery boat on the way across the Pacific and planting it then might be feasible. Then again, the whole thing might have been an undercover sting featuring the Yakuza in cahoots with the Japanese police so the latter would look the other way on their lucrative Pachinko parlor and brothel business.
Roman

Trad climber
Bostonia
Oct 8, 2009 - 11:12am PT
was the movie Cliffhanger loosely based of this event? I remember Stalone looking for bags full or drugs or money or something from a plane crash in the mountains...

I'm sorry but John Lithgow had to be the ABSOLUTE LAMEST choice of actor for a movie villain ever chosen for a hollywood part EVER. About as scary as being mugged by John Waters with a Bic pen if you ask me...
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2009 - 04:09am PT
An up date is due.

Most of my time is now being used to tuning the data. I'm chasing down a pretty important lead. It has to do with the cause of the crash. Its big enough for me to slooow down and step carefully. At first I thought it was a little more than paranoia, but Its got some meat and potatoes to it.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Oct 11, 2009 - 04:52am PT
If you're looking for paranoids, you've come to the right place. We've plenty of those around here.
Reilly

Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
Oct 11, 2009 - 01:32pm PT
It has to do with the cause of the crash.

You mean other than the obvious ones of low-level mountain flying at night with a likely overloaded airplane?
Jim Wilcox

Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
Oct 11, 2009 - 02:13pm PT
That's cool-but I still got my money on the engine falling off. In terms of causing a plane crash that'll be hard to top.
Reilly

Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
Oct 12, 2009 - 01:49am PT
Rok,
I was being glib for the most part. However, flying low in the mountains at night is a sure recipe for disaster. I would bet my house that the wing fell off 'cause a tree took it off after they got in a downdraft.
SRM, Commercial, Glider, MEL, CFII
Reilly

Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
Oct 12, 2009 - 02:31am PT
like getting caught in a downdraft behind a hill, where the air tumbles,

Having done a lot of mountain flying I can assert with authority that you can hit severe turbulence 10,000' above the nearest high point. Let's say they were a 'healthy' 2000' AGL when they hit a 'bump'. That plane might have had a good going over when it became a Howard but I strongly doubt the airframe was strengthened. Even if it was it sounds like it had enough unimproved strip landings that some undiagnosed metal fatigue could have been exacerbated. So the wing departs at 2000' AGL and the fuselage has enough inertia to make it a goodly ways past the wing's impact point. Even if the FAA's accident analysis was at best cursory it should have been painfully obvious to Stevie Wonder and a sixth grade dropout whether the wing came off due to metal fatigue or arboreal impact.
Reilly

Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
Oct 12, 2009 - 02:52am PT
I just thought I would point out that they were most vulnerable to turbulence towards the end of the flight when the wing tanks are getting low. This increases the stresses on the wing roots. That is why, if it is an option, you burn off the inboard tanks first and save the outboard tanks for last.

OK, in lieu of any actual facts I think this dead horse has been whipped aplenty.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 12, 2009 - 08:53am PT
interesting digression, wolfman!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2009 - 01:53am PT
Until I can get to the nuts and bolts of this, the only thing I can say is that....it appears that it ain't what it appears.

Those speculating seem to be hard pressed to admit that they are doing just that.

The research moves forward. So far, I've not been let down.

Reilly..what makes you think the wing tanks were getting low? Inboard/outboard tanks? More speculation.

Rok...you are running very close!
WBraun

climber
Oct 14, 2009 - 02:13am PT
Licky -- "Those speculating seem to be hard pressed to admit that they are doing just that."

Hahahaha you got that right.

And those same types are always stressing for others to get their facts straight.

This forum is a total fuking nuthouse .....
Reilly

Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
Oct 14, 2009 - 02:17am PT
Licky,
Read more carefully. I was only stating SOP's. Regardless of whether the Howard has inboard and outboard tanks the tanks would have been getting lower thereby increasing the moment on the roots. We're all clearly speculating and unless you have the pertinent wing in hand it seems you are too if the FAA report was as cursory as it appears to have been. Let's see, no radar track, no witnesses, no physical evidence, and a whitewash of an accident report could hardly lead to other than speculation. If you do have cold hard facts I am happy for you, really!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2009 - 03:06am PT
W...good to see you weigh in. Its been a while. Hope you are well

My next trip up, I'll hunt you down and fill you in on some of my latest
findings. I think you'll get a chuckle.

Reilly, plenty of physical evidence that was documented. Much of it was over
looked either by mistake or on purpose.

The Howard 500 had "wet wings"
Albion

Trad climber
Bristol, UK
Oct 14, 2009 - 01:39pm PT
"If the vintage airplane's starboard engine hadn't literally fallen off high above the eastern edge of the Sierras, Cliffhanger, Sylvester Stallone's 1993 $73 million movie, may never have been filmed."

 page 326: 'Death, Daring and Disaster' by Charles R. "Butch" Farabee, Jr.

Taylor Trade Publishing 2005 (Revised Edition)

So, how come the engine fell off? Foulplay???

Guess I'll have to buy the book eh?
Delhi Dog

Trad climber
Good Question...
Oct 15, 2009 - 06:44am PT
Yowza!
Rocky that IS FRICKEN WILD!

Now stuff it with bales and let's see what happens...
DD

edit
if true...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvBep7-gi5s&feature=related
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Oct 15, 2009 - 01:18pm PT
Good God - I can't believe you fell for that...

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!1111
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Oct 15, 2009 - 01:22pm PT
That explains his take on 9-11.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Redlands
Oct 15, 2009 - 01:31pm PT
Why does a lower fuel level increase moment at the wing roots? Does the added mass of fuel have some dampening effect?

I'd guess (I am an engineer, but not aero), that it's designed so that the weight of fuel in the wings acts to partially counters the lift force on the wing and the moment around the joint. As the tanks run out, the increased stress would happen as the fuel weight dissipated, losing the counterbalancing effect.

Could be 100% wrong, who knows.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 15, 2009 - 01:35pm PT
You have it correct.

Saw an explanation by a BUFF (B52) pilot about the drooping wings.

He gave that exact explanation.
Delhi Dog

Trad climber
Good Question...
Oct 15, 2009 - 10:02pm PT
On the contrary Rocky, I think it just goes to show that WE have to take what we see/hear on the net/tv/from others...etc with open eyes and not just "believe".

The old cliche(s), "think for yourself", "question reality", "question "authority", yadda, yadda, yadda...is probably more pertinent now than ever.
I got suckered it too, until I saw the other link.

Cheers
DD
(whoa, did I just "defend" Rocky...scary!)
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 4, 2010 - 06:02pm PT
if i may change the subject for a second:
Does anyone remeber any details about the series of arsons in the Valley and Wawona around the time (give or take a couple of years) of the plane?
I'm doing research on them for an article. I know the who, but fuzzy on the rest.
mr p

Big Wall climber
eastside ca
Feb 4, 2010 - 06:48pm PT
i found the black book and was their when the money wallet was found by dorn@price it was a busy day all toll 700 lbs taken chain saw exploration,
nothing short of mayham i have a total recall of the day!
Wonder

climber
WA
Feb 4, 2010 - 10:19pm PT
Yeah Kat, how things have changed around here!
cheers
Wonder

climber
WA
Feb 4, 2010 - 11:08pm PT
Yes grrrl, check this, been busy under the bridge:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=766153&tn=340
Chief

climber
Feb 5, 2010 - 01:33am PT
We arrived just after the heat shut down the access to the lake.
The stuff that wasn't contaminated with fuel was superb.
The codeword for a safety meeting was "Airplane".
Cliffhanger was supposed to be loosely based on the crash.
Pretty loose.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Feb 5, 2010 - 08:03pm PT
Mr. P......did there happen to be any infra red surveillance or code blue business plan with the black book....rj
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 02:52am PT
Its been interesting to see the contrast between those that were making their way up to the lake in the shadows (so to speak) and those that were looking for those in the shadows. For the most part, most were looking left while others were looking right. That's why very few were busted.

Pretty much everyone I've talked to that made it up to the lake came down without having to duck and weave through the trees to avoid the authorities.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Mar 17, 2010 - 10:10am PT
So how's the book coming?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 02:37pm PT
Jan, I'm in the process of just a few more interviews to tie up some loose ends. Then starts the fine tune.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Mar 17, 2010 - 03:04pm PT
I'm in the process of just a few more interviews to tie up some loose ends. Then starts the fine tune

Right. Licky, I'm just a lurker with nothing to add but you procrastinate worse than I do. I don't think you'll ever complete your book. No matter, the thread tells a good, historical story anyway.

Cheers,
Arne
Double D

climber
Mar 17, 2010 - 03:10pm PT
"money wallet was found by dorn@price" ... not quite, but close.

Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 05:32pm PT
Sorry Arne, but the book and story isn't about you or your need to have the book in your hands. Its a historical account of an event, not a novel.If I don't search down and prove out the stories, guys like you will come back and complain about the inaccuracies.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Mar 17, 2010 - 06:00pm PT
If I don't search down and prove out the stories, guys like you will come back and complain about the inaccuracies.
Nah. Around here, if your account was imperfect in the slightest, it would lead to endless contrived conspiracy theories. There's little doubt that the plane was brought down by the lone gunman on the grassy knoll with bear #46 in Area 51, which isn't far away. The government was probably using it to ferry in space aliens, members of the klimmerati. And look at all the nefarious things they get up to - no one can prove they don't.
Mustang

climber
From the wild, not the ranch
Mar 17, 2010 - 06:56pm PT
5 yrs to write a book that for all accounts; 1. Won't be a major literary piece of work. 2. Won't be a major historical piece of work. 3. Story line has already been adapted as a script for a major motion pic. 4. Will have very little main stream appeal. 5. Gets people on this forum really worked up. 6. Proving to be the longest running and most effective troll.

methinks author is still looking for a publisher, thus the so-called lengthy 'research' card always being played :)

the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 17, 2010 - 07:57pm PT
This is a labor of love not a pot of gold project. It takes a lot of time to create something like this when it's not your full time job. Get it done whenever bit get it do e cause I wanna read it!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 08:05pm PT
Not five years to write, five years to research. But, good point Mustang. Guess I'll just drop the project. Thanks, it was fun

Thanks Fet
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Mar 17, 2010 - 08:12pm PT
Just stop telling people this will get finished and published, ever. It's cool to start a project and enjoy it for a while or a lifetime, and to never finish. It's not too cool to flirt and tell people there's a chance they will ever see the book when it's not looking to good in that respect.

Dave
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 17, 2010 - 08:44pm PT
Licky, Rock on

Going to post a picture and see if any one will cough up. Give me a day or so.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Mar 17, 2010 - 08:49pm PT
drip



























drip


































drip
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 11:07pm PT
How about we reduce the flame here? Rector...why do you keep coming back then? Exercise your right to move on to another thread if this is so difficult for you.

Love it Piton
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 19, 2010 - 12:00am PT
Hey Rok....you are welcome to email me anytime. I'll be happy to give you a full up date.
Fletcher

Trad climber
The beckoning silence
Mar 19, 2010 - 12:09am PT
I have to say, this is one of my favorite ST recurring threads. It comes and goes in spurts, just enough. Not too little, not too much.

I am enjoying the thread in its own right. It's Licky's to do what he pleases with it in his own good time. It's interesting to see how attached some are to whether he publishes it or not. All in all, makes for a fun read.

I'll read the book when it comes out. And if it doesn't, I guess I won't!

Good luck to you Licky!

Eric
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 19, 2010 - 12:12am PT
Thanks for the support Eric. To be honest, I'm not a writer by profession. Nor am I a detective. So the research as well as the writing is a bit of an over whelming task at times. Not to mention five years of filing. Luckily I'm enjoying it.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 14, 2010 - 12:06am PT
licky has this thread broken? it's been a month since last post - hope you're wrapping up the tech stuff with some time to (re)consider the side story of the incredible and instantaneous sociological manifestations of the plane on the community - it's always the story of people that hold the most interest
guyman

Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
Apr 14, 2010 - 11:37am PT
I want a book.

The airplane was a truly wonderful time in the history of the valley.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 9, 2010 - 02:37pm PT
licky, you no longer respond, and have been offthread for some time now - were/are you a mole? we took you into our confidence and then you abandon the project, or perhaps you had unstated motives all along - whatever it is, it's not communicative, and seems suspicious - if you're still trying to figure out what brand of spark plugs were in the plane then get over the details already - if you're not writing for the AOPA or Flying magazine, then tell the damn story or at least let us know it's still a work in progress - it's manipulative to elicit so much information, some of it borderline confidential, and then disapear - makes for convoluted conspiracy theories, which - if you are legitimate - will serve you no good purpose
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
May 9, 2010 - 03:20pm PT
He's a cop! Still trying to find the perps!!


BWA HA HA hahahahaaa!!
Albion

Trad climber
Bristol, UK
May 16, 2010 - 07:44am PT
Hey Licky

you spoken to Bob Tostenson? Looks like the NPS might have quite a few interesting photos from their clean-up op. All part of the story...

corniss chopper

Mountain climber
san jose, ca
May 16, 2010 - 01:23pm PT
There is a Bob's Dive shop in Fresno. Mary Tostenson - Owner.
If she's related to the Bob in the picture, may know some details.

http://www.bobsdiveshop.com/about.htm
xkyczar

Trad climber
denver
May 17, 2010 - 01:26pm PT
bump for "where is licky".
Albion

Trad climber
Bristol, UK
May 17, 2010 - 02:34pm PT
It's out of Butch Farabee's book - Death, Daring and Disaster.

Lots of park service rescue stories, etc
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
May 17, 2010 - 03:22pm PT
How about we reduce the flame here? Rector...why do you keep coming back then? Exercise your right to move on to another thread if this is so difficult for you.

Complete and utter optimism? I can't resist the flirtation the same way you can't stop flirting?

Dave

P.S. I was going to ignore the thread this time but I saw my name.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 17, 2010 - 11:47pm PT
Bob Tostenson was a good friend of Butch Farabee. Bob is no longer with us. Butch has told me many a story about Bob which of course will be in the book.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jun 2, 2010 - 01:42pm PT
nice to see you're still alive licky
does doing this project make you feel superior to those of us who are racking our brains to remeber things for your book? if not, then i apologize. but if you are copping an attitude as evidenced by your absence, then get your head out of your ass, dude. make the thread interesting by contributing more and thereby triggering memories for those of us who were really there, and not just fantacising about what other people were doing. if you don't think you have an obligation to your contributors then say so. but don't leave us wondering if you're really cool or not. there's a responsibility that goes along with begging for secrets, and it is to stay on target and keep us informed. let us know how the writing is going, if indeed it is. or tell us to f*#k off. but silence should not be an option for you at this stage of the game. sorry.
Nate Ricklin

climber
San Diego
Jun 2, 2010 - 01:50pm PT
Yeah.


This thread was started more than 5 years ago. Have you written anything? That's enough time to get a PhD in something.

I won't be surprised if this book never gets written.

This is not interesting anymore.
Nate Ricklin

climber
San Diego
Jun 2, 2010 - 01:58pm PT
I'm not his master, he can do whatever he wants.

I'm just pointing out that I'm unimpressed.

Maybe that's the kick in the ass he needs to stop researching and start writing? Gotta draw that line somewhere.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 2, 2010 - 01:59pm PT
Also, five years to write and publish a book is warp speed,
especially for a first-timer. Hang in there Licky!
TripL7

Trad climber
san diego
Jun 2, 2010 - 03:29pm PT
I have often wondered how much of the weed coming from there was bunk vs gold? I personally saw/puffed small quantities of both. And witnessed bail after bail being unloaded from the Huey's coming down from the lake to El Cap Meadow!

Also curious as to what kind of long term effects jet fuel has on the teenage brain?
TripL7

Trad climber
san diego
Jun 2, 2010 - 04:26pm PT
"You post so young"

Thanks for the compliment...better than sounding like some old fart!

Actually I only took one hit of the bunk weed, and got rid of the sh#t after it lit up like a Bic!

Gotta admit though...the Pooco Gold was kick azz, and all that jazz!!
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jun 2, 2010 - 06:00pm PT
ha - looks like i stirred up more response in half a day than has been on this thread for some time, so you're right WBraun, FUK ME! - i can take it if it gets y'all typing - maybe licky will get a burr under his saddle - as for the centerbale/outerbale debate: i couldn't take money for flameweed, but some of that centerbale stuff was great - it also depended on how it dried - but so many people lit j's that did indeed flick on like a bic lighter it was a running joke - "this won't blow up in my face will it?" - paraquat was happenning just months after the plane, and some sorry souls like in the ozone seemed to be stuck with both - sorry if you think i was tough on licky, but dropping out for a long time seems fishy to me, but i'm not writing a book - could be it's a story best suited for a long magazine piece
Wonder

climber
WA
Jun 2, 2010 - 07:42pm PT
HOLY COW !!! It's been 5 years !!! It seems like I just got back from India !
Yep, this thread is going as slow as the holy cows !
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 2, 2010 - 11:28pm PT
Yep, this thread is going as slow as the holy cows !

Perhaps, but this thread has better legs.
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Jun 3, 2010 - 02:19am PT
I have always chuckled when this thread re-appears, and invariably check out the latest banter. Thanks everyone. I hope it lives on for years yet, book or no book. As far as I’m concerned, this thread holds the pieces of the story, and the more anecdotes added the better. Keep em’ coming.

Not sure if anyone ever mentioned the “switched trail signs” scandal. After about 4 miles down from the Mono Meadows trailhead, the trail junction signs got switched by a prankster trying to send gold-diggers up the wrong trail. This was classic. If you followed the trail signs instead of looking on the map, you’d end up at Buena Vista Lakes. Since the correct way involved a pretty precarious crossing at Illiouette Creek, many took the bait and followed the wrong trail. Others, chicken to make the crossing, wandered up the creek aimlessly.

The switched trail signs didn’t fool our party, even in darkness and with weak flashlights. We braved the creek ford and climbed the sandbank hillside where the right trail emerged at the top of the bluff. After another 3 or so miles was a decent campsite along the Clark Fork. After we settled in and started to unpack, we heard a crash and splash down in the water; my sleeping bag, still in its stuff sack, had rolled into the creek and was bobbing beneath a cascade and a cornice of snow in the frigid snowmelt creek. Once retrieved, it really wasn’t that bad still, and I slept just fine in my Woolrich knickers that night. I recall we brought along plenty of wine.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jun 3, 2010 - 12:30pm PT
that's funny, i had a bag roll away once too, just off a cliff though and not into water - a short rappel and all was good - we need square stuff sacks
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 6, 2010 - 01:19am PT
Thanks WB...very well put.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jun 15, 2010 - 12:07am PT
licky you're fading in and out again, must be losing your connection -
if you ever come out with that book will anyone still be awake to read it?

i'm really beginning to wonder about you, are you a person or a committee, or a posse perhaps?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jun 19, 2010 - 02:35pm PT
looking more and more like some fed operation going on here - if not, dispute the assertion - licky, indeed - how many cops did it take to come up with that alias?
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Jun 19, 2010 - 02:59pm PT
members of the klimmerati.

Ha!!!

I missed that one before. Thanks Anders.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jun 24, 2010 - 03:16pm PT
licky has left the building - probably checking in with his superiors in DC
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 21, 2010 - 11:16pm PT
see, i told y'all so! he'd have been back online by now, it's been weeks - don't worry, the SOL is long expired - this guy played us for saps, i'm cool with it but it's no way to treat an old climber - bet he never busted his knuckles in a jamcrack
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2010 - 10:39pm PT
Thanks Rok...I just set the gears in motion. I've pretty much gathered what I can and now the fingers do the typing.

If you catch wind of anything going on, people trying to contact people, its all for the good. So don't duck and weave.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Jul 29, 2010 - 11:11pm PT
Boy you know you are infamous on ST when your avatar name is used to slander a group of people . . .

Klimmerati???

Lol



Licky,


A few questions.

Aren't some people involved whether they be civilian or Feds, still prosecutable even after all these years?

What are the Statute of Limitations for something like this?

Why should people talk? And do they really know who you are?



http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4GPEA_enUS301US303&q=statute+of+limitations&aq=0sx&aqi=g-sx1g-s1g-sx8&aql=&oq=statuate&gs_rfai=
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2010 - 11:38pm PT
Well Klimmer, I'll use that old phrase, "Big fish in a little sea".

Let me first say that I'm by no means a lawyer or a LEO. But I have done my share of research. From what I have managed to find, those involved in Federal tresspass (the lake was off limits and posted) I have not a clue. This subject was never brought up by anyone that I interviewed within the Park department or law enforcement.

As for drug possesion for the purpose of sale or the actual sale, the statute of limitations appears to be seven years. Since the coroner concluded that there is no capital offense (homicide) then no one was placed on a short list for the death of the two pilots. Jack Dorn's death was determined to be an accident and the same applies to that.

If you go back to my first post you will see some postings where people were concerned. And I have to tell you that when I first started poking around and setting up interviews there were a few nervous people. I think some either thought that I was DEA and we are coming for you...or I'm with the mafia and we want our money. Ya gots to do your homework and not depend on rumors.
grunter

Social climber
confusion
Jul 30, 2010 - 12:14am PT
I heard that the feds were back out to the dope plane this weekend? So whats up Werner did something get missed? What were they doing there?
TripL7

Trad climber
san diego
Jul 30, 2010 - 01:14am PT
The first time I saw Jack, was the summer of '74. I was sitting with WB in the lodge cafeteria, and in walks this guy looking like he got lost on the way to fix the first couple pitches of the Nose(or the N F Eiger). I'm talking a huge big-wall pin rack etc. On his head he had a white Joe Brown helmet, and on his feet were a pair of mountain double-boots. Over his shoulder a coiled Edelrid...perhaps two.

He marches into the middle of the cafeteria with pins and bongs rattling. And once he has every one's attention, he burts out with "Anybody wanna go climb a rock?" I just stared at the guy with my jaw hanging. I managed a glance at Werner, and he just gives a nod of approval and says "He's OK."

I mean climbers were supposed to act/be cool back then. And nobody wore helmets in Yosemite...let alone into the cafeteria. I figured he was having a hard time finding someone to climb with, or his climbing club had failed to show up, or whatever. Now that I think about it, Jack didn't give a damn what anyone else thought, he just wanted to climb.

Well of course the dude transformed into Jack Dorn Valley Hardman. And I will now shift to the last time I saw Jack. Although there were many times in between, and all were special. Like the time he passed through Mammoth on his way to do the Muir Trail link-up from Mammoth to Yosemite. I remember I spotted him from about half a mile away, as he walked down Main St. with this big Winchester '94 rifle sticking out of the back of his pack. I didn't question him about why he had brought it on a Muir Trail Wilderness hike. I mean hey, it was Jack! And when he offered it to me for fifty bucks, I just shook my head no(I probably didn't have fifty bucks). One of those times I think about now and then.

But for some reason the two times I remember most, are the first and the last.

The last time was Spring '77. I had landed in the Valley the day that all hell broke loose. It was referred to as something like Black Wednesday, or Thursday perhaps. I simply remember it as one of those times I was a day late and a dollar short.

Well, actually I had seventy five bucks. That I am sure of because I had spent the last two weeks trying to get the seventy five dollar cleaning deposit back from the Realtors we rented the old A-frame cabin in Mammoth from all winter. My roommate and everyone else had long since departed for the Valley. And not a soul had called to let me know of the goings on that Spring...go figure.

So as I'm passing El Cap Meadow that morning, I notice one huge Hughie chopper coming and another one going, I new something was up. I sat there for about two hours and watched them come and go about every fifteen minutes or so, unloading bale after bale. Now a bale is about fifty-five lbs., we're talking alotta grass.

Don't remember what I climbed that afternoon(I was just there for the day). But it was at the base of the Captain because two or three of us stopped to say hello to Jack, just as he was about to lead Moby Dick Center...in his long-john underwear. I remember as a joke I dropped a couple of pebbles into each of Jacks RR's(blue boots)that he had left at the base(his approach and day to day shoe). And how we all got a laugh out of it when he went to put them on. Just a way of saying "Good to see ya again dude!"

We made plans to do a route when I returned in a week or so. And I paused for a second as I was leaving. I don't remember what I was thinking, or the expression I might have had on my face. But I will forever remember Jacks response to it. He just kinda shrugged his shoulders and said "I just wanna get a little land in Montana, and build myself a cabin."

And then he was gone.
WBraun

climber
Jul 30, 2010 - 01:40am PT
grunter

Yep! The feds went back to the lake and found evidence.

Yep!

Evidence of everyone ever involved.

A creature in the lake spilled the beans.

Everyone's toast ......
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jul 30, 2010 - 01:44am PT
Wasn't there some lady and a sword?
Captain...or Skully

Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
Jul 30, 2010 - 01:57am PT
What?
Some tart in a Lake with a Sword?
No, no, no, we're an autonomous collective.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2010 - 03:01am PT
In response to Trip's story. You see guys. This is why this is taking so long. Here it is five years later and people are still coming forward with their take on the event. In many cases their stories are exactly what is needed. Different angles from different perspectives. So to those that are pushing to get this done....S2
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Aug 10, 2010 - 12:00pm PT
don't worry - licky will reveal his true identity . . . on the dust jacket of the book - gonna cost you $24.99 to find out if you been talking to a fed - i had a one-on-one email exchange with mr. mystery himself that he abruptly halted and haven't heard back from him since - i offered writing advice, writing and editing is what i do - and the first suggestion i would offer is to nurture your sources, don't make them uneasy
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Aug 10, 2010 - 01:04pm PT
Licky,

I just found that photo of Jack that I promised you years ago. I'm having it scanned and I'll post it here and send it to you shortly. It's a classic Dorn shot.
tonesfrommars

Trad climber
California
Aug 10, 2010 - 01:05pm PT
Way to go 777:

Now we can add another year to the wait ! ;-D
Great stories.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 15, 2010 - 12:26am PT
Thanks Mark..I look forward to see what you have
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 15, 2010 - 03:09am PT
Alright Sidmo....here is the "stuff". You've not offered up a single interesting tidbit of information. Not a single unique story. So far all you've posted is to rag as if this story is about you. So, if you don't mind, find another ear...you've lost mine.
Wonder

climber
WA
Aug 15, 2010 - 03:42am PT
OMG Licky Licky, You aint gonna put out a book!
Prove me wrong bitch.
Five uking years bitch.
Mission accomplish.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Aug 17, 2010 - 02:47am PT
good - you'll never get it anyway - kind of pathetic to see someone obsess over O.P. (other people's) dope anyway - find your own stash and write about it, loser - so, what spark plugs were thay running in that bird again? fascinating!
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Aug 17, 2010 - 12:06pm PT

Drug lords will likely be interested in the book, for example, but they will not be the largest audience, or even an important one.

you have got to be the most clueless motherf*#ker on this site....

my name for you is captain obvious....
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Aug 22, 2010 - 11:38pm PT
Jack Dorn, Winter 1975-76, on Serenity Crack.


Chicken Skinner

Trad climber
Yosemite
Aug 23, 2010 - 12:41am PT
Nice photo Mark. That is how I remember him.

Ken
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Aug 23, 2010 - 01:06am PT
And five years is not especially a long time to write a factual history of ANYTHING

Perhaps not too long for some things, perhaps far too long for some other things. But be that as it may, this particular enterprise has gone on much longer than five years. Unless "Licky" is one of two people writing a similar book, it's been more than ten. Don't know how much more, but I think it was about ten years ago that he first called me. (A wasted call, because I didn't really know anything beyond second-hand information.)

TripL7

Trad climber
san diego
Aug 23, 2010 - 01:12am PT
"That is how I remember him."

Same here.

Looks like the same pair of long underwear that I mentioned in my recollections of him a page back. Same RR's also.

The Dude Abides!
TripL7

Trad climber
san diego
Aug 23, 2010 - 11:40am PT
sidmo- "looking more and more like a fed op..."

Yeah, right, over thirty years later and the feds start a thread about an airplane that crashed in a lake and bunch of lucky sons a bitches made away with a few pounds of wet grass.

Like they don't have more important things to do with all the cartels kidnapping gringo's on the Mex/Amer border towns and burning them in barrels of gasoline and chopping off their heads, etc. Or the Mex police(the crooked one's)stopping and kidnapping American teenage girls crossing the border and offering them to the drug kingpins for their personal sexual gratification.

Sidmo, like somebody said, this ain't about you. I don't know what you or anyone else offered or feel as though you offered as personal accounts with some sort of string attached. It is a discussion of times gone by. Fun to read, share and reminisce about. Should it become a book, perhaps even a best seller, then all the better.

Who are you to come up with such damning accusations? Because it hasn't met your time line? Seems like you, Wonder, and a few others expect something more. Why? Because you shared a few stories?

Enjoy the thread, and appreciate the fact that Licky got it going...ain't that enough?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 23, 2010 - 05:15pm PT
Thanks for the support TripL7.

Ghost, I've been working on this project since 2005.

Here is a very good reason for me to keep at the research. In a book published this year "It Happened in Yosemite National Park: Remarkable Events That Shaped History" by Ray Jones and Joe Lubow they recall the plane crash and the events that followed. I just ordered the book so I could get the full text, but what I did read on line tells about the bales weighting 140 pounds, they have the plane type incorrect (PV-1 Ventura) and the plane had been refitted with two jet engines that gave it an additional 5,000 hp, federal agents cut through the ice when the location was reported and the divers could not find the pilots, and finally, six armed US Customs agents parachuted into the lake area to drive off all of you bad guys that were stealing the cargo.

I can't wait to get my copy to read the rest of the story. I don't know these authors nor where they get their facts, but if you ask me they either embellished the truth or listened to too many campfire stories. I've been told many of these types of stories, but when I hear them I at least follow up with some research.

I've not posted all of the stories on this thread for many reasons. First off I refuse to perpetuate rumors. Sure they are fun to read and make great novels, but the truth as they say is stranger than fiction. Second, I need time to research the story to make sure it isn't bunk. And of course third, I want to keep some of the stories for the book.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Aug 23, 2010 - 06:00pm PT
Ghost, I've been working on this project since 2005.

Odd. Somebody phoned me ten or twelve years ago with the exact same idea. Doing a book about the crash, following leads from climbers and also from other sources, heard I might have some stories or interesting facts. (As I said above, I didn't have any inside knowledge and couldn't help.)

So when you showed up here I assumed you were the same person. But apparently not.
Wonder

climber
WA
Aug 23, 2010 - 08:23pm PT
"Seems like you, Wonder, and a few others expect something more. Why? Because you shared a few stories? "

Nope, I'm just tiring to push buttons. I do enjoy this thread That's why I'm still here. I really never shared any stories. I was in Idyllwild. Knew all the players. Dont want to share all. Dont trust this guy "licky".

where do they all come up with these Nicknames ? So glad I was nicknamed roywonder.

Cheers
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Aug 24, 2010 - 02:13am PT
ouch!! i thought this thread was about you, me and everyone posting in a back-and-forth with licky - maybe i did get too negative, sorry for that - not sure what a "hustler" meant in curry village but it's past now - my perspective at that time was through tecoya and ahwahnee dorm, and san francisco - if licky does get this ramble down to an interesting story it will be a feat worthy of respect - if he veers offtopic it won't be the first time a book had chapters to scan and others to study, i apologize for wanting to see something condensed and gripping - encyclopedias are fun to read too
Wonder

climber
WA
Aug 24, 2010 - 02:44am PT
I smoked the good the bad & the ugly
If i remember right the good showed up with the
suicide doors.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 26, 2010 - 12:24am PT
Just received my copy of "It Happened In Yosemite National Park". You guys ought to order this just for the laughs, especially those that were there at the time. The chapter that talks about this event ends with the author saying, "Not every story told about the crash is true. Nor are all the stories false."

I'm shaking my head. If this book had been written as a novel, I'd have smiled and enjoyed it. Makes me wonder about the validity of the other stories in the book.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 29, 2010 - 02:36am PT
By the way everyone, I provided Jack Dorn's brother the link to this thread as well as the others about Jack.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 29, 2010 - 03:20am PT
i enjoy this thread, even if a book doesn't come from it. But we can hope...
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2010 - 03:38am PT
One of the things that has bugged me from the get go has been the time line of events. I've been working out the sequence of events from when the guys in the "company" first purchased the plane to when the plane was hauled out of the lake and the Feds went after those they thought were involved.

As I read some of the posts on the forum as well as publications such as magazine and newspaper articles, it becomes very clear that everyone has a snippet of the event, but not always a good recollection of what happened first, second, and third. I think that's because it wasn't important back then.

Guys like Sidmo would have a field day if the time line didn't make sense or wasn't accurate.

I've been working with Glisky's wife Pam on just these issues.
C4/1971

Trad climber
Depends on the day...
Sep 17, 2010 - 11:38am PT
Miss Jack Dorn....and damn, he looked like the guy I knew In Serenity Crack. That smile....
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Sep 29, 2010 - 01:20pm PT
Licky, you're so wrong in your last post - I wouldn't care about the timeline being off, you can write disclaimers and alert the reader that you're reconstructing the events as well as you can. You're asking people to remember details of events way in their past that happened at a time that they had lots of weed, of course the details will overlap one another and become confused. The readers will get that, and forgive you for some factual errors as long as you bring them into the process of deciphering the history. What my concern was simply that you didn't restrict your book's perspective to information gleaned only from rockjocks and aviatonfreaks. I thought it might be fun and enlightening to also consider some of the sociological effects that the plane had on our little community. I've been dismayed to discover that the scene is as gossipy and populated by small people with petty peeves and grudges as it was back in the day. Is it interesting that the plane was a this-or-that with certain aeronautical characteristics and boring that a modern-day gold rush occurred in a small community that enriched a sizable percentage of previously-destitute idealists whom had been sacrificing the normal comforts of American society in order to persue a dream? I simply felt that you were embracing much of the technical history while rejecting some of the life-changing effects that the bonanza had on real people. What guys did with their fortunes is key to the story in my opinion. You and others shot me down pretty well after I tried to stir the pot some, perhaps I did deserve some criticism but it wouldn't have killed you to bite your tongue a little as long as people were chiming in and providing information to your project for free. I still obviously check back on the thread out of curiousity, and will certianly throw you a few bucks for the finished book, but since I've more-or-less given up on caring about this project much I'd prefer not to have my motives or character questioned and maligned by people who identify themselves as timid topropers and other silly monikers in order to remain anonomous. Not that I care what someone thinks about me from the seventies, but just because people are entitled to their own opinions does not entitle them to their own facts. I was a hustler back then all right, but not in Boystown, Curry Village, Yosemite Valley or Park. I scalped tickets for a living between parkk service jobs, and i scalped them in LA and the Bay Area. I spent money lavishly in the park, and was generous with people I knew, before and after the largesse we were blessed with in '77. I was moderatly more well-off after the plane to be sure, and many people I knew were positively impacted more dramatically that I. That is what was interesting to me about the plane, then and now. If you don't share my interest in how the money affected a small community that had a disproportionate number of people living on the financial edge then so be it - but I think you're missing, if not THE point, certianly a point worth noting. I wish you luck Licky, despite how I might feel about some of your overly sensitive and judgemental threadposters.
tonesfrommars

Trad climber
California
Sep 29, 2010 - 03:36pm PT
huh?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Sep 29, 2010 - 03:41pm PT
Alexander...i know where you are coming from rj....
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Sep 29, 2010 - 04:29pm PT
The Gulag will do that to a guy...
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Sep 29, 2010 - 04:44pm PT
I like the idea of the comic book version, sort of like theGilbert Shelton one about the 'merican revolution...
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Sep 29, 2010 - 05:53pm PT
I'm actually fascinated by this idea and your take on it, Al! I don't know ho how this stuff is done, but it souncs like you, do. Good luck, I hope you really do this project! Im seeing it in sort of a Deltoro, kind of image...

BTW, i believe it was the 'The Golden Voyage of the FFFB's, a Mexican Odyssey'! It featured General Douglas Disaster, (retired) and Don Longjuan. I have it ether here in the garage, or in storage, I'll give a look, in a while.
Zander

Trad climber
Berkeley
Sep 29, 2010 - 09:30pm PT
Alex,
Never delete. Not for Rokjok, not for me, not for anybody.
Ha ha, unless you did it for yourself.
Zeebro
Zander

Trad climber
Berkeley
Sep 29, 2010 - 10:10pm PT
Not true Rokjok,
There is a give and take on supertopo that has it's own tempo and interest. I can't remember exactly what Mr. Sol said but he's not anywhere near the wild things that post here. When you delete a post in the middle of a thread it needs to be really bad. Even if his was then an apology would have done the trick- without a delete.

And by the way I enjoy your posts. Not all of them, of course, but I see you don't enjoy all of mine. Ha ha,

Take care,
Zander
throwpie

Trad climber
Berkeley
Sep 30, 2010 - 12:22am PT
Jack Dorn...wow. For what its worth, I was a good friend and climbing partner of his when he first showed up in the Valley. So long ago, but I still value the time we spent backing off just about everything we tried. I haven't thought about him for so long...seems like a dream. Often wondered what the real story of his demise was. I had no idea that the "crash bud" story was still alive. I guess I've been out of touch for about....forever.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Sep 30, 2010 - 12:26am PT
How about the ones rox deleted, Zee?
Zander

Trad climber
Berkeley
Sep 30, 2010 - 10:23am PT
Yeah Jaybro, he should have left them IMHO. Think about it before you post something, not after. Taco treads have an ebb and flow to them that I enjoy. Sometimes we all post things we regret. It's OK, let it ride. Jay, I don't want to interupt this thread further so thats all I will say.
Z
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Sep 30, 2010 - 10:31am PT
I'm with you z!
on topic, as a Berkeley local when this was happening, did you hear about this thing when it was 'going down"?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2010 - 01:25am PT
Sidmo...you are like a bad burrito...you just keep coming back. How many time do I have to explain to you that this event/story/book isn't about you or what you can and can't remember. There have been plenty of people outside the climbing community (Park employees, Rangers, hotel operators outside of the Park) that have a very good memory about the event.

Once again, there are people that have been following this type of plane for over forty years. All have wondered what happened to the seventeenth model. Do you the climber of the seventees need to wonder about this? Probably not. How about Hollywood's take on why they used money instead of dope in the story? How about the level of investigation that went on surrounding Jack Dorn's death? What did his family hear and know? How did this event further the careers of those that came down with their share of the stash not to mention Park Rangers and their take. Friends of the two pilots only heard of the plane crash, none knew of what they were doing. Sabatoge of the plane to make it crash? Now there is a story and its one that I'm deeply involved in researching.

Your posts remind me of Chainsaw in the early days of my research here. So Sidmo...please...go play in another sandbox...I'll not say this a third time.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Oct 5, 2010 - 06:46pm PT
OUCH! go play in another sandbox? why, so Timid-ity won't kick anymore sand in my face or you won't smell burrito-farts? you guys are so pompous and full of yourselves you crack me up - lighten up dudes, and stop flaming - concentrate, concentrate - try to remember all that we forgot . . .
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 13, 2010 - 09:18pm PT
Maybe Sidmo would like to meet to expound further on his thoughts?

It would make for interesting reading I'm sure
graniteclimber

Trad climber
Nowhere
Oct 13, 2010 - 09:29pm PT
Is the book finished yet?

How many volumes will there be?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 13, 2010 - 09:49pm PT
Yes, the book is finished, it is published, it is available through Amazon.com...Sidmo is my agent and you can contact him for purchase at a ST discount.

NOT
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 13, 2010 - 10:48pm PT
Licky,
I wasn't sure that I would buy a copy but I think I will now just to
do my part to ease all the gratuitous grief you've gotten here.
Wonder

climber
WA
Oct 13, 2010 - 11:43pm PT
So Licky, what is your projection of a delivery date? Every author has a projection of delivery date. Some of us here would like to know this before we die or move to India or both.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
Nowhere
Oct 13, 2010 - 11:44pm PT
Have you started writing the book, or are you still in the "research phase?"
Wonder

climber
WA
Oct 14, 2010 - 12:57am PT
Listen GH, I got this. How many people around here do want to stalk? Do you get paid by the post?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Oct 14, 2010 - 05:23pm PT
I've apologized to Licky and Timidity in seperate emails - we'll see if that stops their growling - Licky tells me on one hand that this thread is not about me - point taken - if that's true, then perhaps his next four consecutive posts won't mention me, as his last four have - sorry to anyone else here who somehow got their nose out of joint sticking it where it didn't belong in the first place - amazing how sensitive big tough rockclimbers can be, and I plead guilty to that oversensitivity as well - perhaps we're all full of shyt
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati
Oct 14, 2010 - 05:53pm PT
"Yes, the book is finished, it is published, it is available through Amazon.com..."

What is the title?
Wonder

climber
WA
Oct 14, 2010 - 06:27pm PT
stalking again GC ? Pathetic loser.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati
Oct 14, 2010 - 06:47pm PT
Rox I can understand. He got clubbed in the head by the cops too many times.

Wonder is my personal stalker. Everyone should have one. I apologize for his lack of manners.

Wonder's previous contribution to this thread:

OMG Licky Licky, You aint gonna put out a book!
Prove me wrong bitch.
Five uking years bitch.
Mission accomplish.




I just want to buy and read the book, it it will ever become available during my lifetime. I don't need a Supertopo discount. I will pay full price.

Is there a title yet?
Wonder

climber
WA
Oct 14, 2010 - 06:53pm PT
You got one big fat ego to think I would really want to stalk your lousy gay ass. I"m gone, way past you now. Your old news. Lets try a new game now shall we?

NOT
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Oct 14, 2010 - 07:08pm PT
in a private email exchange, Licky told me this:
"If you'd had posted both of your emails to me on that forum you'd now be the laughing stock of the forum and they'd not leave you alone for months."

now, is that true? Y'all wouldn't pick on poor lil' ole me, would ya?
I just don't know what I'd do if I thought y'all were ganging up on me, probably cry. But here's the emails, since Licky issued his threat let's see if you are all marching in lockstep. Don't disapoint our fearless leader now, he's so sure that y'all all have his back.

emails from me to Licky earlier today:

What, are you the keeper of all secrets now? I've been amused at the manner in which you are handling your fame. To take things personally and flame online is . . . well, unprofessional at best. And now, you ask a direct question that can have little, if any, bearing on your project. That you allowed me, and perhaps others, get under your skin smacks of self-absorption. When I was attacked by Timidity you seemed to support his effort, to what end I can only guess. Your job as a reporter is to take in and filter through data and opinions, not to take sides in a petty squabble between two sources, or would-be sources. Whether you use anything you glean from me or anyone else is irrelevant. You will, if your research goes as it should, gather not only facts and figures that embellish your narrative, but you should be and probably are gaining a more holistic and comprehensive understanding of what you missed out on and should have curiosity about. You might not use what any poster offers, but their information might help to connect other things you’ve learned. This process, we learned in journalism school, happens on both a conscious and subconscious level. You can ignore it and yet the process goes on. It is counterproductive to stifle that phenomenon by pushing against it, and your public postings that name me (or any other poster, for that matter) and are lame attempts at both insult and ridicule are juvenile – unless, however, you are using faux vitriol in an attempt to stir the pot. I readily admit to doing that in your thread earlier. I apologized, but in case you missed it, please allow me to do so again. I am truly sorry if I offended you or anyone else with any posting(s.) I offered similar apologies to Timidity as well in an email that he has yet to respond to. That’s as far as I can go, or should be expected to go. I pledged to purchase your book and I’ll now offer to pay for it in advance, if that will help you to sharpen your focus and complete the project. If you still want to insult me on the thread I will not complain or react as I don’t really care what you or your readers think of me personally. But for professional reasons, as we are both journalists and writers, I would still like to see you succeed, as the future of books will be defined by new editions finding their way into print. I really hope your book succeeds, even if my support disturbs you personally. I do not need your appreciation any more than I am bothered by your scorn. As I said before, your unprofessional communication amuses me. You’d be better served by developing a demeanor that does not react emotionally from criticism, as we writers are invariably lightning rods for criticism. It goes with the territory – don’t let it bother you.



Sidmo



PS: I am only me. If you need to ID Chainsaw I cannot help you, but I will peruse his postings and if I can ascertain any clues to his identity. I doubt I will however. I climbed a lot back then, but rarely with the Camp 4 crowd. Due to the two-week limit on residency in the park to unemployed visitors I generally kept away from the segment of our community which was under the most scrutiny. Many members of the climbing community were regularly surveilled by law enforcement and I was wary of being swept up during investigations of others. I also did not enjoy following other climbers as much as I enjoyed leading my own pitches (unlike, I suppose, our friend TimidTopRope.) So I was always in the periphery of the Camp 4 scene and not well-acquainted with many of the others.

SO THAT'S WHAT I WROTE MR. LICKY - EVERYBODY LAUGHING YET?

Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 14, 2010 - 07:16pm PT
Hoh man!
Wonder

climber
WA
Oct 14, 2010 - 07:21pm PT
Ok, I apoligize too, I think I'll go get another bottle.
atchafalaya

climber
Babylon
Oct 14, 2010 - 07:22pm PT
Sheesh, I was interested in 2005 when you first posted. Did you abandon the project?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Oct 14, 2010 - 07:38pm PT
Licky IS the project - it's his identity now, not the book but this thread itself
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2010 - 07:56pm PT
Seven emails in four hours. Can you not get to the point?

No atchafalaya, the project still moves forward. Hang in there
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Oct 14, 2010 - 08:16pm PT
are you paying supertopo for this thread licky? if not, why do you have your drawers bunched up? atchifa-whoever-he-is was right, it was interesting way back when
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2010 - 09:30pm PT
Sidmo..if it was interesting back then (before your arrival) then maybe you ought to move on to more interesting topics. Ones that come to mind are Painting your lawn for fun and profit and Ebay prices for used toe nail clippings.

Damn..I'm succumbing to the Troll aren't I?
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati
Oct 14, 2010 - 09:50pm PT
The book, Licky! Focus on the book!

You ever been to lower merced pass lake?

Nobody can prove anything.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2010 - 09:58pm PT
Funny thing Granite, but the entire project is about proving or disproving stories, rumors, legends. Many of the stories have lead to even better ones. I have to say that only a small percentage have turned out to be bogus. Some of those however have left me shaking my head as to what was that person thinking when he told it? For example, I understand a few made it up to the lake using snowmobiles. I'll bet those that had to go in by foot wished they'd thought of that.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati
Oct 14, 2010 - 10:02pm PT
Licky, when the book comes out, I'll buy it. I hope you write it though.

The story is complex enough that you could spend the rest of your life collecting more information. You will have to draw a line at some point and write the book. You can release a second edition later with revisions and additions.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2010 - 11:05pm PT
To be honest Granite I'm very close. There are three issues that I need to clear up and unfortunately the people involved are quite a ways apart. So, when I get to them and their take on their stories I'll then start the process of finalizing the story. The biggest problem is that one of them has information that puts the reason why the plane crashed on its head. I need to be able to either prove or disprove this angle. This is not a novel.
WBraun

climber
Oct 14, 2010 - 11:35pm PT
Of course in this age of "instant gratification" people have lost the realization of completeness.

There's so much stuff out there and a lot of it is just plain sloppy.

We all recognize it and have become desensitized to it and find it "normal" now.

Like Licky said; "It's not a novel"

It's his personal work.

So if one has one has no patience (another losing quality in this day and age), then you're not fit.

Then your only quality is to bitch ....
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 15, 2010 - 12:30am PT
Once again WB I owe you my humble bow. Very well put
JakeW

Big Wall climber
CA
Oct 16, 2010 - 12:55pm PT
Found some parts up there, below the lake, while on a backcountry patrol this summer: "actuator - oil shutter", and some other chunks of metal. The stuff's still strewn all over, apparently.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 16, 2010 - 06:06pm PT
Hey Rok...those posts are still there, I just checked.


JakeW...the paint job for the plane was red, white, and blue. A majority of the paint was white. The inside of the parts were painted a flat, olive drab color. Two years ago I was sent photos of a large section of the plane that is tangled up by a small tree and overgrowth. I could identify the plane by the stripes as well as the part number printed on the olive drab side.

The guy that sent me the photos also sent me one of him standing in the lake holding some of the debris that is still in the lake.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2010 - 01:15am PT
When the plane landed in Baja for its second load, the chief mechanic said to the pilot, "you have an oil leak on the left engine. The pilot said, "Yeah, I know...I'll have it fixed after this run".
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 1, 2010 - 01:20am PT
"Yeah, I know...I'll have it fixed after this run".

HaHaHa. True words those. The radial that doesn't have an oil leak likely
doesn't have any oil in it.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2010 - 01:26am PT
When the plane was pulled from the lake, one of the things found inside was the replacement oil line still in its wooden crate
dinerogrande

Social climber
Mexico
Nov 10, 2010 - 10:25pm PT
This is starting to remind me of the old medieval story about nail soup. You know, where the charlatan fires up a boiling pot of water in the square, with just a nail in it... He keeps tasting it... mmmm... if I only had a carrot or two.. then a potato... etc. etc. Until VaVoom!
All of those around him have given him the ingredients to complete his hearty stew. I gotta hand it to ya Lick-Meister... You know how to boil a real good nail.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 12, 2010 - 03:22am PT
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 16, 2010 - 02:25am PT
For those that think I ought to be speeding up my research and publishing of the book I have this for you. I just recieved a copy of a book titled "It Hapened In Yosemite National Park" writtened by Ray Jones and Joe Lubow, published by Globe Pequot Press, copyright 2010.

In this supposed historical book of events that occured in Yosemite, they speak of the 1976 plane crash at Lower Merced Pass Lake. I hope you are all sitting down for this.

The plane was a modified PV-1 Ventura outfitted with jet engines.
The bales were 140 pounds each.
Those that were up at the lake were surprised by the six US Customs agents that were parachuted into the area that eventually ran off those that were stealing the cargo.
The legal owner was presented with a $20,000 bill for salvage costs, it was never paid.

So for those that were there and involved, you know how much of this is pure bunk. If I were to include this junk in my book many of you that were there at the time would tear me appart. This is why the book is taking so long. I am not writing about rumors, only about facts.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Nov 25, 2010 - 09:18pm PT
i love the analogy of nail soup - although i suppose the same story varaint that describes a "stone" soup might be more appropriate for these stonemasters, both climbers and loadies

but Licky says it best: "I am not writing about rumors, only about facts."

well content description notwithstanding, it seems that the lickster should have stopped his statement at "I am not writing . . . "

research is all that seems to be forthcoming - if licky really had anything done he'd have posted an excerpt, like real writers do to promote interest in their projects, a sneak preview if you will - he's so confrontational when the person he's confronting could be so easily ignored that it seems as if he might have something to hide - real involvement in the incident perhaps, ulterior motives perhaps, a generalized inability to string words together perhaps - something doesn't add up, that's for sure - he'll likely blast me again for my chronic cynicism and insessant meddling, and to what end? the satisfaction one gets from telling another person off? it will be a Pyrrhic victory at best if he ever publishes, because of the collateral damage to his reputation as a journalist - he's discounted relevant data, trumpeted irrelavant details, and alienated sources - good job, rookie - come to the big leagues with your nose so elevated skyward that it gets bent out of joint by anonomus posters to a silly thread - but I forgot, he admonished me with a suggestion that I play in another sandbox, paint my lawn green and track prices of fingernail clippings on Ebay - based on those decidedly unfunny barbs one can only hope he won't try writing humor, but if he did I suppose he could pen his name Snark Twain
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Nov 25, 2010 - 10:38pm PT
LOL!!

Just wanted to get the 900th post...

Way back when this thread started, I think the longest thread at the time was perhaps 300 posts. This thread has the distinction of taking the longest time to get to 900 posts...
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Nov 25, 2010 - 11:58pm PT
Who here remembers that guy from back then we called "Clomms?" He never made it to the lake, but he sure helped spread the word. Then, there was Darrel; he had the misfortune of having his stash of airplane cash made into a squirrel’s nest (mulched) under that big boulder behind the Terrace where somebody hauled one of those green benches. A park bum hideout, of sorts.
Chicken Skinner

Trad climber
Yosemite
Nov 26, 2010 - 12:40am PT
Redondo Beach Boys. It would be a good thread on it's own.

Ken
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 26, 2010 - 04:53am PT
I'm beginning to think that our friend Sidmo is among those that claim to be involved like the chicken is involved in breakfast versus the pig. I don't think Sidmo was even in the Valley when the plane went down. I think Sidmo was one of those that I have interviewed that were on the fringes. They never made it up to the lake, never packed down the cargo, but for the past plus thirty years have been telling friends and family that he was in the thick of things. Like I've said before Sidmo..you've never offered up a single story that is different that those told by those who were there. Still waiting, but I doubt if it will happen.
timdude2000

Sport climber
Las Vegas, NV
Nov 28, 2010 - 04:56pm PT
New to forum, but this thread is what has attracted me. I am an attorney living in Las Vegas, interested in finding out as much information about this event as possible. Perhaps I would like to put all of the information together to try and tell a coherent focused story. Mr. Rick Schloss, I am convinced is by far the most knowledgable person about the facts of this incident. He seems to be a class act, interested not in making money off of this matter, rather interested in getting to the bottom of the facts. He is well on his way, if not heading down the closing stretch now. It takes the mind of a serious investigator to sift through all the fact from BS, and Mr. Schloss has done that job. Problem is he has had to listen to a lot of BS along the way.

I appreciate the telephone conversation, and look forward to you getting to the bottom of what really happened. Also, Mr. Schloss should be comended for his thoroughness. The investigation in this case, has snowballed, and requires painstaking thoroughness.

Keep up the great work.

One hypothesis: Three people initially took the first non fed haul from the lake. True or not?
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Nov 28, 2010 - 06:36pm PT
"I climbed a lot back then, but rarely with the Camp 4 crowd. Due to the two-week limit on residency in the park to unemployed visitors I generally kept away from the segment of our community which was under the most scrutiny."

There was no two week limit back then Sidmo. . .Get your lies straight. . .
timdude2000

Sport climber
Las Vegas, NV
Nov 30, 2010 - 02:25am PT
I have a couple of hypotheses to try to test if this subject is not dead. Forgive me for repeating something that has already been discussed.
1. The plance crashed on December 9, 1976.
2. The Pilots are identifiable, and were 31 and 29 at the time of the crash. From Seattle
3. The plane was a Howard 500 which can be easily mistaken for a Lodestar, but this plane had a range of 2200-2600 miles.
4. From what I have read or seen, there does not appear to be a great deal of fire damage, this could be because, well it crashed into a lake of water. But was there an explosion?
5. It was packed with MJ. People who transport MJ are not in the habbit of hauling half loads.
6. Somebody found the wing in January 77, but not the rest of the fuselage
7. The feds came in in February or March and did a minor recovery. Decided to come back when the weather was more acceptable, late spring.
8 Word leaked, I believe because Yosemite, althogh social dichotomies existed, amongst staff, campers and even among those in Camp 4, they shared the Yosemite Experience above and beyond all.
9. A Ranger, Employee of the Hotel where the feds had to have stayed, a part time ranger, a camp 4 tennant with good eyes and a good pair of binoculars, whatever, three people came up with or were given the idea to go check the lake. Maybe the feds didn't get everything the first time.
10. 3 or 4 people went in and scored.
11. Many more "got theirs", Pictures exist, funny, dudes drenched in underwear holding bales.
12. The feds came in got the wreckage and the bodies of the pilots

I have several more hypotheses, and much more analysis. The problem that I see with this project is that it is impossible not to put a modern spin on what happened over 30 years ago. This provides great hindsight, but also makes facts fuzzier especially from eyewitnesses who are all believable if they saw what they say, but the problem is that they focus on details that are different from person to person. It is a tradeoff to say the least.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2010 - 03:19am PT
Yep Tim...you got the problem right. Keep digging. Just be careful of the "spin". It tends to make a novel out of a historical event.

Ya'll have to admit, the plot thickens. I'm now enjoying this as much as Sidmo is
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Nov 30, 2010 - 03:21pm PT

Still loose ends that still need to be addressed. If and I say “If” everyone is or has been on this site and has been involved in some way; has or would have had knowledge of this place, the timing, who/whom and for what reason. The painting of this building is of course been upgraded few years back.

Any Takers?
middle joe

Trad climber
oc
Nov 30, 2010 - 04:29pm PT
This sure would make a better movie than 127 Hours...
timdude2000

Sport climber
Las Vegas, NV
Nov 30, 2010 - 11:29pm PT
@ skipt. Just forget I am an attorney. I am just a dude that wants to know what happened. That is a very good point you make about my occupation, as most that are associated with it have, well to say the least not the greatest reputation for honesty. I do not have any motive but seeing a story told. I just came across this topic in a funny way. I would be happy to explain it to you. Also, dude, no offense taken. I threw some stuff out there and you called me on it. I would still like to hear what you have to think.

This thing has gotten long and drawn out over the years.

Why don't we start with 1, move to 2, and see where it goes. The folks that have been reading this forum know more about what appears most likely to be true, not me. I work for nobody but myself on this deal. I am an inquiring mind that's it. This subject is interesting to me from a story standpoint in some aspects I would like to share with those interested in hearinng. I will start with 1. can we get to 2? Easy stuff first.

1. The plane crashed on July 9, 2009.... debate or move on to number 2.
2. ???????????????
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 8, 2010 - 11:58am PT
Licky, when it comes to the plane you may well be the most informed man on the planet - as your attorney friend believes - but until you stop assuming that anyone's reticence to offer up all the details you desire is some indication as to their story's veracity you will continue to compile subjective data that cannot be verified. So you may include erroneous information because you trust the source for some reason, and exclude relevant data because you have some problem with the source personally. Such subjectivity lends itself better to a fiction project, as a novel "based on a true story" might be a better vehicle for your book. You've misread some things but won't believe me if I elaborate, so I'll not bore you. But if you believe that you can write history while playing favorites and running a cliquish thread for your research, I'd have to say that such self-confidence is delusional and destructive. Go ahead, tell me to play in someone else's sandbox (or check Ebay prices on . . . lawn clippings, was it?) but juvenile wiscracks do not a well-researched history project make. You are certainly free to write as you like, but if this was an academic project, I can assure you that it would not likely pass the rigid requirements of creative non-fiction. As I said, it's a perfect vehicle for a novel and should be pursued as such. As a work of history however, you'd have a hard time with peer reviews in any academic environment.
WBraun

climber
Dec 8, 2010 - 12:09pm PT
sidmo

You really are an idiot.

He's writing the book his way whether you like it or not. Tough sh'it for you.

Go write your own fuking book if you don't like it.

Also Licky could give rats ass about any or your so called "peer" review.

Are you really that stupid?

Dolomite

climber
Anchorage
Dec 8, 2010 - 01:44pm PT
Sidmo said: "I can assure you that it would not likely pass the rigid requirements of creative non-fiction." What "rigid requirements of creative nonfiction"? There's only one: that the writer believes what she or she is writing to be true. That's it. One rule.

And for all you people complaining about Licky's time on the project: from what I can tell, ten years on a book, particularly a first book, is about average, so back off. It's interesting to have this semi-public view of Licky's research here on ST, but it creates a probably false sense that he's slacking. Most of the time we just see a finished product and have not one clue how long the project took. Let the man work!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2010 - 03:41am PT
Amazing how some get their 15 minutes of fame (Andy Warhol "In the future, everyone will be world-famous for 15 minutes.") Sidmo is working on his. He and Chainsaw are duking it out for Top Dog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM4hLwM4_ms


Thanks again WB and Dolomite for your support
timdude2000

Sport climber
Las Vegas, NV
Dec 12, 2010 - 03:18pm PT
Look being new to this thread and being flamed at least a couple of times for my posts here and elsewhere, I would like to say that I appreciate EVERYBODY'S point of view. Sidmo is entitled to his opinion, but I do not know the story behind any beefs that have built up. I do believe that Mr. Schloss is a virtual encyclopedia on this topic. He has given presentations at Yosemite. However, I am not "his lawyer friend" (remember we are forgetting my occupation, LOL). Trust me I would way rather be on a trail than a courtroom.

I have received some good information on this subject. Who can give a conscise rundown of the events as they believed them to have happened? It's not easy. Mr. Schloss, whether the first to publish on this subject or does so in 5 years, will be the foremost thorough work; no question in my mind. I think it is a very interesting story. I do wonder whether there would be mass appeal for this topic. I do not like to spin my wheels.

Right now what I am looking for is anybody who XC skis in the Sierra. I know the conditions were very dry that winter. Did anybody xc ski that winter? or hear stories? Wasn't it an XC skier who found the wing first, January 77?

Sitmo hit me up on PM, I will listen to what you have to say. I think this thing should be kept civil. I understand sarcasm is human nature, but let's try to keep in mind that two very young men died in that crash. Think about that when making a post. This story has some diverging and flat out false information associated with it. The facts from what I have been able to gather are pretty much there. I need somebody that can help me take the reader to the high sierra on XC skies in a dry winter. I am not beyond strapping a pair on and learing first hand.

Take care all
Thanks for the input on this issue.
Disclaimer
My spelling sucks and I flee flow my rhymes.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 13, 2010 - 12:30am PT
Having been an avid alpine skier in the mid 70's I can recall listening to the weather reports about snow fall, or lack there of, in the Sierra. The snow was just about none existant.

Now lets skip forward to a particular story that I have been hunting down. Its about a couple of guys that managed to pay a visit to the lake with...are you sitting down? Snowmobiles. Ya see, here is another example of people that wished they were in the thick of things. Loading it so thick that now we have snow mobiles streaking over the sand dunes of the Mojave, or more to the point, screaming to the plane crash site.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 13, 2010 - 12:43am PT
It should be possible to get snowfall, weather and snowpack measurements for the winter of 1977, from the various land management agencies. Maybe not for Upper Merced Lake, but perhaps for sites not far away. It was certainly a dry winter relative to normal measures, but if I remember rightly there were some storms in February and March.
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Dec 13, 2010 - 12:59am PT
For reference, the Tioga Road closed for the season on December 29, 1976 and opened for the summer on April 8, 1977; I think this is the shortest of all winter closures. This was the driest winter I can remember. It was cold, but it was snow-ice instead of snow. Skiing in Jan and Feb as okay, but booting it in from March on.

EDIT: there were no vehicles, snowmobile or otherwise, that made that 13 miles.
east side underground

Trad climber
Hilton crk,ca
Dec 13, 2010 - 01:07am PT
Back in '77 were sno- mo's good enough to make it back that far in the backcountry? My first sled was a '78 john deere. Fun but not what I would call a machine cable of real backcountry riding. Not like modern sleds. Maybe possible? Also, the john deere was one (maybe the first) liquid cooled machines, dry road riding with air cooled sleds can lead to disater quickly.
DHike

climber
Dec 13, 2010 - 12:09pm PT
FYI

Donner Summit Snowfall totals and Snowpack 1879-2010

http://www.thestormking.com/Weather/Sierra_Snowfall/sierra_snowfall.htm

edejom

Boulder climber
Butte, America
Dec 13, 2010 - 12:30pm PT
Rox, NO 4-wheel ATV was commercially available in '77--crappy 3-wheelers from Honda was the only choice then (asides from motorcycles).


...and those Big Red Hondas were not too trail friendly:-)




It will be interesting to see what (if any) motorized vehicles made it up there...
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Dec 13, 2010 - 01:04pm PT
Rox, NO 4-wheel ATV was commercially available in '77--crappy 3-wheelers from Honda was the only choice then (asides from motorcycles).

Indeed. In James Bond's Diamonds are Forever (1971), they had those Honda ATC 90's chasing the moon buggy...

Edit: Here's a cool page I just found:

http://www.bob2000.com/atv2.htm


From the web page linked above:
Answer to the most-asked ATC90 question: Where to find balloon tires:

They don't exist.

There used to be a few on eBay, and the last set I sold went for nearly $1000. Keep your eyes on eBay, but be prepared to empty your wallet.
edejom

Boulder climber
Butte, America
Dec 13, 2010 - 01:16pm PT
I was curious if my memory was correct--it was.


From wiki/all terrain vehicles:

Suzuki was a leader in the development of 4-wheeled ATVs. It sold the first ATV, the 1982 QuadRunner LT125, which was a recreational machine for beginners.
timdude2000

Sport climber
Las Vegas, NV
Dec 13, 2010 - 03:11pm PT
I am sure 80 pounds of the lightning in a pack was sufficient. That was likely thought to be enough. To mount a mechanized operation to the site seems highly unlikely. More likely people went in more than once, and perfected the science somewhat, but keep in mind every trip in was one or two less bails in the lake. Probably had to work harder the longer you waited to get in.

Tim
timdude2000

Sport climber
Las Vegas, NV
Dec 18, 2010 - 01:19pm PT
The 2010 book "It happened in Yosemite National Park" has a chapter devoted to the "the crash of the lodestar lightning". At best this chapter has a fair amount of misinformation regarding the crash. This leads me to question anything in the chapter, and also leads me to read the other chapters with a jaded perception. If you prove a couple of things wrong in a chapter, should you assume the whole book is tainted as well?

Peace
Tim
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 18, 2010 - 02:26pm PT
Good points, Rok, although it was no more complex than any other twin radial such as the Beech 18.
No doubt you had to watch your manifold pressures and EGT closely but a single pilot could fly it.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 19, 2010 - 03:43am PT
Reilly...how different would a plane be if both 2500 hp engines screwed to the same direction? These people owned a Beech 18 and knew how to fly that also.
timdude2000

Sport climber
Las Vegas, NV
Dec 19, 2010 - 11:55am PT
Thanks for the input Rok. It seems like the book "it happened in Yosemite" could have been slapped together pretty fast.
For what it is worth, I think Glisky and Nelson were stud pilots. I do not think that any pilot in their right mind would get into a plane that had any problems pre-takeoff. I have heard that the engines were leaking oil. Why would the pilots try to fly on potentially one engine. If the problem, as it sounds like, was with the airframe/structural reliabilty then a pilot would not get back on a plane that had a structural shudder as one could imagine a damaged airframe would have. The structural wing problem would be like driving a car with a flat tire from the start. The pilots, I bet, thought they had a completely healthy plane.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2011 - 01:39am PT
The latest work in progress is trying to prove/disprove that there was some hanky pank that resulted in the demise of the plane on it's final flight. This is a pretty touchy subject since there is no statute of limitations on capital crime.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 29, 2011 - 02:41am PT
how different would a plane be if both 2500 hp engines screwed to the same direction

I suspect you know the answer: you gotta be right on top of things if you
lose the one that you don't want to lose - the one that torques you into
the dead engine side. As long as you get the dead 'un feathered quickly it isn't
a real big deal if you have the rudder authority - no prob on a Beech 18
but it could be a different story on the Howard with all those ponies which
might have exceeded the rudder authority of the original airframe. I
don't know, of course, but there have been planes like that: they're fine
with both turning but with one turning and the other burning it isn't a pretty sight.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2011 - 03:46am PT
Reilly...since I'm not a pilot I can't speak to those events that you have mentioned. I have spoken to a few pilots that have flown the Howard 500 and they all agree that this is a rather unique plane and it has its quirks.
webslave

Social climber
Morgan Hill, ca
Jan 31, 2011 - 01:56pm PT
I volunteer at a small aircraft museum (Wingsofhistory.org) and maintain their website. I am doing a short article about the pot plane salvage operation.
What is our connection to the pot plane? One of our museum's founders was hired by U.S. customs to retrieve wreckage from the lake. This founding member gave a talk to our group about this adventure several years ago. He passed away a year ago and so I am doing this article. I would like to exerpt a small selection of items from this thread to add to my article...if no one objects.
I have some of his photos taken during the salvage operation. Here is one:
webslave

Social climber
Morgan Hill, ca
Jan 31, 2011 - 01:58pm PT
I forgot...please reply to info@wingsofhistory.org
Slater

Trad climber
Central Coast
Jan 31, 2011 - 02:18pm PT
rad, this would really make a good book/then movie!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2011 - 01:27pm PT
Sorry to hear about Vaughn's passing. I spend a couple of hours at his house in 2006. He gave me a bunch of photos of the salvage operation as well as letting me photograph him showing off one of his prized souvenirs of that event, his tee shirt in like new condition.
Trango

Mountain climber
Livermore, CA
May 7, 2011 - 10:33pm PT
.............(crickets)....................................................

where'd everybody go?
Barcus

Social climber
San Luis Obispo, Ca.
May 18, 2011 - 06:39pm PT
Update?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 25, 2011 - 02:36pm PT
good question - Licky began taking sides with his sources and perhaps everybody with a brain noticed . . . and decided that this thread was obviously biased and that Licky's research was desirous of a particular outcome. This is what can happen when a writer chooses a subject which has players with whom the writer is personally associated. Licky got personal and participated when he should have just played observer and taken notes. I offerred to help and was summarily dismissed, and called a liar. I only ask: "Why would I lie to someone that I do not know, and have no interest in impressing?"

Licky has an exagerrated sense of self-importance, which makes me increasingly believe that he has hidden agenda in addition to, or perhaps in contrast to his stated interest in this case. Could he be a Fed, or working for them? You be the judge. He is, at least, quite mysterious.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
May 25, 2011 - 02:42pm PT
I really liked it when this story was discussed around campfires. This thread taints the legend.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 25, 2011 - 02:50pm PT
Licky wants the thread to become the legend. He is more revisionist than historian.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
May 25, 2011 - 03:38pm PT
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2011 - 11:42pm PT
Ok..just for Sidmo's ears, everyone else turn away.

I have five different sources that do not know each other that all claim that the plane might have been sabotaged prior to that flight. All five mention the same potential subject that caused the plane to crash.

There was no NTSB investigation. There was no NTSB investigator at the site when the plane was pulled from the lake nor was the plane's remains delivered to a site for examination. Though the FOIA request, NTSB claim to not have any files, notes, or photos from the event.

But then again for Sidmo, this type of information only takes a few minutes to glean from the mist if ya catch my drift.

yo

climber
a tied-off Tomahawk™
May 25, 2011 - 11:45pm PT
Do you have an app that makes your phone buzz when your thread gets bumped?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2011 - 11:47pm PT
Dayuum....busted
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
May 25, 2011 - 11:55pm PT
what the f*#k ever. i've completely lost interest. produce a book, or stfu. neil sheehan produced "a bright shining lie" in a fraction on the time you've been blowing smoke, asshat.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 26, 2011 - 12:18am PT
Good point bvb I'll go to press tomorrow
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
May 26, 2011 - 02:01am PT
Don’t waste time listening to the hollow banter from the peanut gallery at this point. Some people who never made it to the lake still feel left out. They were lazy then, and apparently are still so. Ignore them.

Who was the ex Marine that got busted at Happy Isles on his way out the week before Easter? I heard his pack straps broke so they just used cord to wrap the 100lb pack to his body.

Anyone else here remember the "baler?"
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 26, 2011 - 11:44am PT
It is funny how many people who have never written a book are so expert on
doing so as well as taken with the idea that one can just pop one out in a couple of years. HoHoHo!

And I am really mystified, but not surprised any more, at the lack of goodwill.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
May 26, 2011 - 12:17pm PT
It is funny how many people who have never written a book are so expert on doing so as well as taken with the idea that one can just pop one out in a couple of years. HoHoHo!
And I am really mystified, but not surprised any more, at the lack of goodwill.


On the other hand, some of us who actually have written books know that it can be done in less than however many years this one has been going on. Which is not to say that this particular book ought to have been written in a much shorter time span, just saying that it has been going on for a very long time.

As to the lack of goodwill, that's easy: Ask people for help with a project, accept their help, then do not produce the project. People get impatient, and then write snarky comments on internet forums. Maybe they shouldn't get impatient, but they do.

Best way to defuse all that impatience and increase goodwill is to be more forthcoming. Share details. Give back to those who gave to you. Be more open. If all you say is that your project is going to be great, but you never produce the project, or provide any evidence that you are even remotely close to producing it, then pretty soon you might as well call yourself Fattrad and talk about the war that is going to happen "Any day now."
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
May 26, 2011 - 12:29pm PT
How about a brief excerpt of what's been written so far? You know, like when the New York Times Magazine publishes a chapter or two from a forthcoming book?

That'd slay my thirst and shut me up!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 26, 2011 - 01:43pm PT
Ghost,
Surely you would agree that many great books have taken a long time to see
the light of day and these days it would seem to be even tougher to bring one to fruition.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
May 26, 2011 - 02:05pm PT
Surely you would agree that many great books have taken a long time to see the light of day and these days it would seem to be even tougher to bring one to fruition.

Definitely. If you look at what I posted, I did not say that this particular book ought to have been written more quickly, just pointed out that many writers are able to produce books in relatively short times.

Who knows? Maybe Licky isn't a professional writer, but someone doing this in his spare time while working at some other job. Maybe he is a writer, but has his hands full with other projects. No idea. I think I first heard from him on the subject about eleven or twelve years ago -- seems like a long time to me, but then it ain't me writing this story, so I can't say whether he's ahead of or behind schedule, or if there even is a schedule.

As to your second thought, that it is tougher to finish a book today than it was in the past, I disagree. Access to information -- both first-person and stored -- is far easier and faster now than it was in the past. Research is easier now, not more difficult.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 26, 2011 - 02:19pm PT
Research, yes, but getting somebody to publish it is more harder, no?
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
May 26, 2011 - 02:19pm PT
finishing a book is one thing. write it, you're done.

now geting the thing published....ho man, whole different kettle of fish.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 26, 2011 - 03:07pm PT
Another puzzle someone has not come forward ‘Too scared syndrome” Come on a least a little hint? Feds most likely, maybe not.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 27, 2011 - 01:27am PT
if and when this thing ever prints and reads, i think we'll need our Encyclopedia of Acronyms to navigate all the fancy bureaucratic sleuthing that Speedy has done on this project - I wonder if he'll add periods after each letter (I.R.S., for example) or just stick with the more colloquial(DEA, NPS, etc.) Like you said, he likely won't have an editor, so the grammatical errors might be as ubiquitous as in a pulp porno novel.
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
May 27, 2011 - 01:38am PT
Whaddya know, the ol Wings Of Grass thread is back.

Continue.
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jun 6, 2011 - 01:08am PT
it is more harder,

Reilly, I'll bet your book would be "more harder" to read than Licky's.
:-)
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 6, 2011 - 01:10am PT
Johnboy,
Not for most of the gud ol' USA. I seen how most o' dem talk, ya hear?
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jun 6, 2011 - 01:22am PT
Ima gunnna have to agree that more of the most yak even better den me.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 7, 2011 - 04:51am PT
Sidmo...you crack me up. Don't kid yourself, you are far from a motivator.

Rok...you have a good grasp on things
Abenda

climber
Jun 7, 2011 - 05:16am PT
LICKY, YOUR A LOSER!

There will never be a book

Jack was drunk that night just like I was except he decided to hike up the trail and I didn’t because I knew I was hosed. The party in question was on the Yosemite Point Buttress not El Cap. They got caught in the dark and wanted off.

He walked off the trail man because he was drunk! Nobody pushed him for crying out loud. It was that stupid dumb ass who wrote that first book Angels of WTF it’s called. He asked me a bunch of questions when he was researching stories for his book. He told me it was going to be semi fiction. He started all those idiotic rumors about Jack. He told me he was going to write it like that.

I can show anyone the exact spot and you’ll see very quickly how someone, not even intoxicated, can easily walk off the trail, what to speak of being hammered. It was night time and late.

All these dumb ass rumors ........

This^^^^
Now f*#k off licky you f*#kin shill. 6 years now bitch. It don't mean sh#t no mo.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 11, 2011 - 02:27am PT
Abenda...never ever let facts get in the way of what you believe. Or as it was once said, "Don't believe everything you think".
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
bouldering
Jun 11, 2011 - 03:00am PT
He started all those idiotic rumors about Jack.
I beg to differ. The "rumors" were in the valley immediately - way before anybody wrote on it.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 12, 2011 - 05:46pm PT
I have interviewed those that were on the rescue team that Dorn was on as well as the Ranger that was in charge of putting the team together. I've also spoken with one of the two that needed the help that night.

I have also been contacted by a guy that claims to have been on the rescue team with Dorn, but his name is not on the report. No one on the team ever heard of him as well as the team leader. His story has changed both times that I have spoken with him. This is typical of the smoke that is blown about this event.

Facts:
Dorn was selected for the team at around 2 am, woke from his sleep and asked if he would like to help out on a rescue?

When asked if the team leader smelled alcohol on Dorn's breath, the answer was "No and if I had I wouldn't have selected him".

Dorn wore a headlight that kept his hands free, but he did not wear a baseball cap that kept the rain off of his glasses.

Toxicology report shows that there was no alcohol or any other drug in his system.

Tami..."well respected sources don't always have the facts"
Steve in Tahoe

Social climber
Lake Tahoe, NV
Jul 24, 2011 - 09:28pm PT
I was up at the lake last weekend. Pretty emotional trip - I hadn't been back since April 1977. I'm not a climber, I was just passing through the park - right time / right place, and all that. Some friends and I quickly verified the rumors we were hearing and hiked in.

FWIW, here's a few memories...

1. We got a backcountry pass listing a fake destination - probably Ottaway or Buena Vista - which we thought might help us out if we were caught on the trail. This actually worked (see below).

2. Glacier Point road was open, probably due to the drought, and we took off from there. Folks hiking out were loaded down with weed, which was a good sign.

3. Lake was pretty torn up when we got there - tons abandoned gear strewn everywhere, lot's of holes in the ice.

4. I distinctly remember somebody going into the cockpit (can't remember if it was scuba or they just jumped in) and coming up with a jacket and wallet. Coins in the jacket were bent from
impact. There was cash, and a key to one of the casinos in Vegas (the guy that got that took off running...for Vegas). The wallet got passed around the circle, and everyone took a souvenir - IIRC I ended up with Glisky's pilots license, since lost to time.

5. We spent 2 nights and a day at the lake - my girlfriend gathered up pound after pound of loose dope on the snow. We were about to quit (somewhat) empty handed and head out the next morning when one of us finally found a bale under the ice. Frantic digging, a communal effort, and we split the bale among maybe 5 or 6 of us. Total take for me maybe 4 or 5 Ks.

5a. Someone ripped off my down parka up there, I'm still a little peeved about that.

6. I distinctly remember being paranoid and in a hurry the whole trip - we were probably a little late to the party, so to speak, and knew this was not going to last.

7. Coming up the trail to Glacier Point, practically within sight of the trailhead and the car, and here comes Yosemite LE - with full packs and armed, either guarding the trail or heading in. It was pretty obvious by our looks where we'd been and what we were doing. I whipped out the bogus trail pass, fired up that silver tongue of mine, and he let us through. In retrospect I think we got some of the very last weed out of there. I'm not sure how people on the trail behind us fared.

8. Spent 3 or for days high up in the rocks behind the Ahwanee drying the pot out. *That* was some drama - think Humphrey Bogart in "Treasure Of Sierra Madre", worrying about getting ripped off, your buddies worried you were going to rip them off...(sigh).

9. Hitchhiked back to Ketchum, where I was living at the time. Probably the stupidest risk of the whole episode - my life would be real different right now if I'd gotten popped on the NV interstate with a backpack full of dope.

Here's a nice pic of the lake. Sure looks different then the last time I saw it: http://www.flickr.com/photos/42507736@N02/5967180349/in/photostream/

I've really enjoyed reading some of the posts here (I'm only up to about #400) - always wondered what the back story was. Licky - is the book still happening? I'd buy it.

Cheers folks,
Steve






Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Jul 25, 2011 - 01:56am PT
Interesting account Steve, and thanks for posting the link with a photo of the lake.
I've never been there but now I have an image in my mind to go with the stories.
Steve in Tahoe

Social climber
Lake Tahoe, NV
Jul 25, 2011 - 10:26am PT
couple more pics of whats left of the wreckage: http://stevedunleavy.smugmug.com/Landscapes/Yosemite/13787391_fNKZF#1395801605_HncvX8H

Chicken Skinner

Trad climber
Yosemite
Jul 25, 2011 - 01:02pm PT
Remember these?Looking forward to reading your book Licky.

Ken
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Jul 25, 2011 - 01:59pm PT
I was surprised at how big the lake was compared to what I had imagined. Given the size, I could see from the photo how chopping through the ice and dragging the stuff out was more of a challenge than I had imagined.
Steve in Tahoe

Social climber
Lake Tahoe, NV
Jul 25, 2011 - 04:42pm PT
My guess is that the debris (the little there is of it) was scattered far and wide and has been slowly discovered and put in that pile. That being said, I was shocked there was anything there.

Steve
Steve in Tahoe

Social climber
Lake Tahoe, NV
Jul 25, 2011 - 08:05pm PT
Seems like the whole load went into the lake - has anyone every reported finding bales anywhere else, such as along the debris trail? If the plane had crashed on dry ground, and maybe burned, there'd be no story here at all...

Steve
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jul 25, 2011 - 08:17pm PT
Hey Rok,

The NTSB report states structural failure, but doesn't get into the detail that today's reports do, so it's hard to determine how much of the wing came off.

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=56017&key=0

Edit to add that earlier in the thread, this has already been covered and Licky hinted at the left engine being involved, and also stated that the death certificate of the pilot had details of what caused the crash. So hell if I know what happened. Being as it's been 5 years and no book, perhaps he would care to shed light on this?

If it was an outboard section, it could have left enough that they came in relatively level....especially if they still had elevator control. They would have had to come in fairly hot, if they slowed down the damaged wing would drop. That's been noted in a few incidents where they lost the outboard of a wing and the aileron. Roll control could sometimes be regained using the engine and what was left of the wing. And the PV-1 did have some good power on it...when the engines were in good shape anyways.

If the NTSB report is true, I guess that the overloading, combined with strong mountain drafts or wave rotor, may have caused the structural failure. An additional factor may have been that the aircraft was over controlled in those drafts, causing more stress to already fatigued materials.


I guess all in all, no one will ever know what really happened, I have heard a ton of theories about gunfights and etc etc.

But it is part of the Yose history for sure.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 25, 2011 - 09:32pm PT
Yeah, that was a really in-depth accident analysis! LOL!
In-flight structural failure caused by trying to fly through large pine trees.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jul 25, 2011 - 09:54pm PT
It's damned thin, that's for sure. And I'm just speculating based on that thin piece of information, is all - mostly out of boredom.

I'm re reading the whole thread again....not a lot of reports of tree contact other then then one that Rok mentioned.

It's already been said weather wasn't a factor - but they were running low and at night. On a route they had flown before. It seems odd that they would have been THAT low unless something was wrong?

Apparently he blew the left engine, according to Licky. But I don't see how his cause of death could indicate that, as he has said in the past. And with the NTSB report so thin, there is no way to tell if that was the case. I assume that Licky has the rest of the reports.

The report is too thin, no information regarding mods or anything else, so anything that was done to the airframe was done so without getting it recertified, which in this case isn't surprising of course.

EDIT: I see that Licky confirmed that it had been modded to a Howard 500 - hence the heavier load ratings. We used to have one at our shop. (N500HP) Nice machines.

But you would think that the report would at least list if the power plants weren't standard.

EDIT 2: Rox, after looking at some of the crash photos, I have an idea about what caused your confusion on the nose cone.

To me, it looks like the nose cone had separated from the airframe, and was perhaps floating vertical with air trapped in the top of it. That close to the shore, I can't see a Howard 500 standing on it's tail. Also hard to miss the rounded tree trunk impression on the end of it....
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 25, 2011 - 11:35pm PT
Well, Vegas, you obviously know the fine line a twin piston driver treads.
When you suddenly have one turmin' and one burnin' a very high percentage of
pilots are ill-prepared especially if you add in a high load factor, high altitude,
and darkness.* With the torque of those big ol' radials you don't have long
to get your act together especially if you're barely clearing the terrain to
begin with. I really doubt many could keep that beast on an even keel and
climbing, in the dark. Even less likely would have been the likelihood of
turning around without terrain-following-radar.


* You know those guys didn't practice engine-out procedures in that thing. No way.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jul 25, 2011 - 11:57pm PT
Hey, Reilly, I sent an email to Licky about this, after reading everything all over again. Made my work day go by quick!

So here is my analysis.

He bought the Howard in 1976. So he couldn't have had much time in it. As you have previously, and correctly, stated, the Howard had some issues with rudder authority due to the powerplants. The only US flying one used to sit on our ramp years ago, and the pilots said it could be a real bear to fly.

I agree that he probably didn't do a lot of engine out practice in this thing. According to the FAA, he didn't have a type rating (but that could have been redacted in the report as well.)

My take of it is this;

1. Airframe failure

Rotor is scary as hell. I've flown in it in gliders, surfing the Minden wave. If it was "airframe failure" my guess would be that he got spanked, pulled too hard, and took the wing off. I can't find any reports that state HOW far the wing was from the lake, but I can see enough of it in the pictures that my idea of partial failure upthread was incorrect. If the wing came off, all of it did. And the Howards did have some wing loading issues, and corrosion issues due to the fact that they used a mix of old and new parts - some of them VERY old, war time parts.

2. Uncontained engine failure

This is what I think is the most likely scenario, considering that Licky has let loose the tidbits that it had an oil leak (all radials leak, so in radial parlance "oil leak" means it was leaking a LOT) and that the death certificate of the pilot would shed light on the cause of the crash.

Though he didn't come out and say they blew the engine, I think it's likely given the motor location on the 500 that an uncontained engine failure could have blown shrapnel into the cockpit, injuring or killing the pilot. Another scenario in this vein, was that there was an engine fire, that caused the wing failure.

3. Engine failure and stall

The last scenario I have, is that he blew the engine, caged it, and was trying to set it down in the lake...which probably looked like a meadow at the time. He turned into the dead engine, stalled it, and spun in. Some planes, you can get away with that; having been up close and personal to the Howard, I seriously doubt it was one of them. If he didnt have a lot of time in it, and blew an engine while flying low, slow, and heavy loaded....not a good combo.


Anyways, that's my warm armchair analysis. Hopefully we will get the whole story some day!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 26, 2011 - 12:19am PT
Vegas,
Good analysis. I suppose it is possible but I doubt either of us believe there
was a rotor west of the Sierra crest* and I don't think the Howard had enough
hours on it to have serious corrosion issues.

As you well know if a radial ain't leaking it is clearly out of oil. My money
is on a blown something and subsequent confusion getting the correct mill caged.
Even if they had the rudder authority I'd bet my house they wouldn't have
been able to climb on one and, as I said, they would have been sorely pressed
to turn around in the dark. A no win sityation.

*I got some time in rotors too - E ticket? HaHaHa! Try Holy F ticket, eh? :-)
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2011 - 06:26pm PT
One of the toughest part of this research is the time issue. It turns out that many of the State and Federal agencies were not under any mandate to hold onto files. Many have purged their systems. One of those is the NTSB. Using the FOIA request I asked for all field notes, sketches, photos, and reports for the event. The only paper produced is that single one page report that keeps popping up.

So now I/you/we are left with what little physical evidence there was that can be substantiated by photos and/or reports. The plane was cut up and hauled out. Sold in Fresno as scrap to help pay for the costs.

And interviews with those that are familiar with that plane. I have found both pilots and maintenance personnel that knew that plane very well. The same with the only two flying models to date and their owner/pilot. By the way, he has two more that are being refurbished. Imagine, only 19 made and he has four.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2011 - 07:08pm PT
Honestly gang..I really am still on the trail. Been writing a lot, but I do have a full time job that keeps me traveling

By the way...Ken...The guy that had the salvage operation produced two interesting items during the interview. One was one of the tee shirts (I got mine at Lower Merced Pass Lake) and the other was a bright red fire axe that had been left at the lake
Chicken Skinner

Trad climber
Yosemite
Jul 26, 2011 - 07:13pm PT
Cool Licky,

The axe. You just got me laughing. Made my day.

Ken
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jul 26, 2011 - 07:24pm PT
And the cash that Jack snatched.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jul 26, 2011 - 11:38pm PT
Hey Reilly,

I should have said "rotor and/or severe mountain drafts" to be more accurate, to be sure. Rotor can occur on the west, but I also think it's unlikely as you said.

Could corrosion or metal fatigue have been an issue? Sure - internal parts were used from wartime airframes, almost all of which were flown outside their flight envelope. The plane was about 10 years old at that point.

Judging from some other info that has come to light, I'm still saying engine failure leading to structural failure, or an engine failure and then a stall trying to land it on the lake.

It kind of amazes me that they would strip out a Howard that was that new to use to haul dope though. They were PRICY - $500k - and super plush inside. Hell of a choice and suggests he had a lot of money lol.

Rok....how did you like my idea about why you could see the nose cone and not the rest of the plane? :D

And give him his axe back, he stole it fair and square :p haha
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Jul 27, 2011 - 12:42am PT
I want to hear more about "The Notebook".
List of sources?
List of clients?
Papillon Rendre

Social climber
Jul 27, 2011 - 01:55am PT
Loose lips sink ships!

Most everyone who lived in the valley, whether they knew Jack or not, heard about the book.

Arvin Abbott was the Manager of the Village Store. I worked for him at that time and there was no female (Asst.) Manager until the following year.

-PR
sempervirens

climber
Jul 27, 2011 - 02:00am PT
Why don't you oldtimers tell us what happened to Jack.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2011 - 02:48am PT
There were three black books

That Dood: I have spent many hours on the phone with Jack's family, old friends from HS and college. Like all of us, there are sides that always raise eyebrows when one hears the stories.
David D.

Trad climber
Pacific Grove, CA
Jul 27, 2011 - 11:13am PT
I was actually backpacking out by Lower Merced Pass Lake last month and came across this piece of metal NW of the lake. Myself and the people I was with lost the trail due to the snow cover and ended up wandering through some granite formations that normally would have been unvisited, and we found this sticking halfway out of the mud. Does it look like something related to the drug plane? What color was the plane?

Steve in Tahoe

Social climber
Lake Tahoe, NV
Jul 27, 2011 - 05:44pm PT
So there is more out there in the woods....color matches one of the pieces I saw by the lake last week.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jul 27, 2011 - 10:31pm PT
Fattrad....LASD-Ret....? Does the Ret. stand for tard...?
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
Jul 27, 2011 - 11:02pm PT
Jack fell off the trail in the middle of the night on the way to rescue others. End of story.

The rest is paranoid speculation. Friend of mine was the next rescuer on the trail after Jack and never saw or heard anything.

The alternative to the simple explanation above is that the marijuana mafia were waiting at 3:00 am in the rain to ambush Jack and push him off the cliff. This is simply ludicrous.

Papillon Rendre

Social climber
Jul 27, 2011 - 11:42pm PT
ThaDood:

Back then, female managers were few and far between with MCA. I think Debbie Price was one of the few female managers.

In retrospect, your friend's wife could have managed the gift shop portion of the store. Arvin managed the grocery dept.

My loose lips comment had nothing to do with your post, but a general comment from those days. Everyone knew everything, or so it seemed.

But it was an interesting time to live in the Valley.

:)



Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 28, 2011 - 12:54pm PT
A little entertaining a propos thread drift:

Flying high for the Sinaloa drug cartel

Times were good for Carlsbad pilot John Ward as he smuggled cocaine across the U.S. for Mexico's Sinaloa cartel. But the men at the other end -- they worried him.

By Richard Marosi, Los Angeles Times
July 27, 2011, 10:44 a.m.

Third of four parts


John Charles Ward would take flight in the half-light before dawn, when he could race down the runway without headlights and ascend into the cloaking embrace of an overcast sky.

Soaring above the crowded California freeways in the single-engine aircraft, he'd relax, pour himself a whiskey and Seven and plan his hopscotch route to Pennsylvania. Inside the plane were 242 pounds of cocaine; outside, nothing but clouds.

"There are no curbs in the sky," Ward said. "There's no place for anybody to pull you over."

Flying shipments for the Sinaloa drug cartel was Ward's best gig in years. No street dealing, packaging or other grubby chores required. He delivered cocaine to a distributor in Pennsylvania and returned with duffel bags stuffed with up to $2.8 million, keeping a few 6-inch stacks of cash for himself.

Taking off from Riverside County's Corona Municipal Airport at dawn, Ward could be back the next day, feeding twenties and hundreds into the counting machine at his home in Carlsbad.

Still, he had some nagging concerns. The Mexican distributors in Pennsylvania were trying to cut costs by hiring immigrant truckers to haul drugs from Southern California. And U.S. agents were keeping a close watch on traffickers in the historic towns of Lancaster County, Pa., a distribution hub.

Ward was an expert at covering his tracks. He usually stayed at a cottage-style motel just off the runway at Smoketown Airport, the self-described "Gateway to Pennsylvania's Amish Country." After midnight he donned black clothing and lugged cocaine-filled gym bags from the plane to his room. He avoided people, paid cash for most purchases and, if anybody asked, said he was an aircraft broker.

"The money never stopped. The product never stopped," he said. "Everything was moving continuously."

..................................................................

rest of the article:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/cartel/la-me-cartel-20110727,0,6478850.story?page=1?lkjasdlkjlsad

Be sure and watch the video, it is pretty good. Dude was landing on The Racetrack
in Death Valley at night! He said something odd though about staying below
the March AFB radar. Huh? Maybe he meant Edwards and China Lk.

Oh, yeah, I liked where he says he would settle into cruise with the autopilot
on pour himself a Scotch, fire up a spliff, and watch porn on his laptop!


ps
There are 3 very good preceeding articles about the drug trade.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Jul 28, 2011 - 02:46pm PT
Wow, that's a great article!

Thanks for sharing...
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2011 - 06:21pm PT
David D.: I just spoke to someone very familiar with the Howard 500. He said definitely that blue body part is from either the inboard side of the left or right engine. So, good find! The color also helps as the company that did the final paint job does not have any photos of their work after the plane left their facility.
middle joe

Trad climber
oc
Aug 4, 2011 - 03:43pm PT
From Summit Post:
I know everything about this crash. The co pilot was my uncle. Contact me at drscott1970@aol.com
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2011 - 06:04pm PT
Good story, but wrong crash
Brizane

Ice climber
California
Aug 5, 2011 - 01:54am PT
Yellowstone National Park is always unsafe? It has experienced a far higher than usual number of people killed. I read this here: Deadly year in national parks as Yosemite claims 14 lives . Accidents really happen either at a person's own risk or the environment itself.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2011 - 06:13am PT
Brizane...not too sure how your comments fit with this thread
Trango

Mountain climber
Livermore, CA
Sep 17, 2011 - 05:53pm PT
Looks like this thread needs another jump start.

Anything new to tell us about the book, Licky?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2011 - 11:18pm PT
A week ago this last Thursday, with the help of an old timer from WWII that knew the intimate details of the Pratt & Whitney R2800 radial engine, I finally figured out what caused the crash, ripped the wing off and landed the plane in the lake. Of course I'll save this for the book since I gotta have something for you guys to want to wait until the end of the book.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 18, 2011 - 12:26am PT
Vegas and I already figgered they lost oil pressure in the prop guvnor and
threw a blade which ripped the engine and wing off. Next summer we're gonna
go recover the guvnor. Jerry Brown is gonna come along.
TWP

Trad climber
Mancos, CO
Sep 18, 2011 - 10:46am PT
Licky:

In 2005 I published a "true crime" book about an event that occurred in 1977. "Murder Unpunished: How the Aryan Brotherhood Murdered Waymond Small and Got Away With It." University of Arizona Press.

I thought I was slow!

Licky: You got me beat! You have researched this down to the lint-in-the pilot's-navel-and-the-smell-on-his-finger-when-he-twitched-and-sent-the-plane-into-a-fatal-tailspin. TMI for Christ's Sake. Publish already or shut up forever!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 18, 2011 - 02:19pm PT
Thorton (aka TWP):

You surprise me. First off as an attorney I would have thought you'd want a historical book to be fully researched and only facts provided that were substantiated. Maybe you just aren't that kind of attorney.



Secondly, the Tucson Weekly (September 15, 2005) seemed to give you good points for your writing style, but the following comment by Paul Wine who reviewed your book said: "This is certainly a complex case, and condensing the material into a book of this size leads to sketchiness. (Price too often makes off-handed references to people and events without providing elaboration.) "



Thirdly, your involvement as an attorney for the Florence 11 certainly gave you access to court documents which are primarily what you used to find the players and put together the meat and potatoes for the book. I've only had one person at a time to take me to the next. Many times I've been told by someone that they were present during this event only to prove that they not only weren't present, they were blowing smoke with their stories. I have documents from DEA, FBI, US Customs, FAA, NTSB, Justice Department, and the US Park Department. All of which required multiple FOIA requests from those agencies, not from a central location such as a court clerk. I have personally (at my own expense) traveled around the US interviewing many of those involved as many on this forum's thread will agree.



And your final sentence in your post pretty much says all about your skills as a lawyer.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Sep 18, 2011 - 08:29pm PT
Licky-

You have my support! I have two anthropology books that I've been working on since the 1970's. Both are encyclopedic and both have been expanded many times. If a person does research for the love of it, getting into print for money or glory is not the issue.

I too have dilemmas about how much to write concerning touchy legal and political issues. In some cases it is better to wait a number of years before discussing them.

Enjoy what you're doing at your own speed. There are plenty of books both popular and academic, that could have profited from more time to think about the important issues.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 18, 2011 - 08:42pm PT
Thanks Jan for the encouragement. Sounds like you understand
Trusty Rusty

Social climber
Tahoe area
Oct 15, 2011 - 01:31pm PT
Refuel! A dramatic and provocative thread that almost rivals the event! Don't worry licky, wont ask . . .hope its coming along smoothly though.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 16, 2011 - 02:11am PT
Thanks Rusty...The research continues. I am contacted about each week by someone that either was in the thick of things or knew someone that was.
kjlonghill

climber
Oct 20, 2011 - 04:55pm PT
I just finished reading the book High Country by Nevada Barr and hadn't even known it was loosely based on the crash in Yosemite when I took it out of the library. I decided to Google the plane crash to see what came up and I came upon this forum and figured I'd add what I could remember.
I was living and working in Yosemite in early spring 1977, staying in a tent cabin, working in the Lodge as a maid. I had hitchhiked there with a friend, and was there maybe 4 months. I climbed or skied on my days off and the story was spreading around the place, pretty quietly at first, about the plane and how if you wanted to get involved you'd have to get up the trail as soon as it was passable. The story going around of how the crash happened was that the weather was bad and the plane iced up. People were just waiting for the first thaw and everybody figured that the Feds would be coming up as soon as word got out that it had thawed. My friend told me he was going on his day off but I was kinda creeped out, especially the idea of the dead pilot. He went up and came back down with his backpack full, and said it was pretty crazy up there, everybody trying to pack out more than they could carry, even one guy searching the pilot's body and taking his wallet. My friend left the next morning, hitching out of the park. A lot of Curry Co employees left at the same time. I seem to remember the Feds arriving a few days later.
yosemitemtb

Social climber
Mariposa
Oct 23, 2011 - 06:12pm PT
As much as I'd like to read Licky's book, I'm not sure how it could be more entertaining than this thread.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Oct 23, 2011 - 06:13pm PT
Just in time for Hallowe'en, the thread rises from the undead.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 16, 2011 - 10:53pm PT
I am looking into a story about people that checked into the infirmary in the Park for breathing problems due to smoking the dope. Anyone have first hand experience with this? Again, I'm looking for those that went to see the doc for this.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Nov 17, 2011 - 12:14am PT
6 1/2 years already.

I'm glad you aren't trying to write about something more complex like this:

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Nov 17, 2011 - 12:44am PT
Yawn.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 18, 2011 - 01:30am PT
I know its tough to read my post in it's entirety, but I'm looking for those that actually checked into the infirmary, not those that claim to have raspy lungs from smoking the weed
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Nov 28, 2011 - 12:32am PT
Any dweeb dumb enough to actually smoke plane pot (when there was good untainted gold Columbian and thai sticks readily available at reasonable prices) was too stupid to find the clinic. Timidity, did you really enjoy that crap? Or, did being a boystown “newbie” render you untrustworthy to local dealers? You should have come up to the terrace and tried some good stuff – or did your newbie status make you unattractive to the friendly working girls of curry village? Maybe you didn't have enough "flare", or the girls didn't want to smoke your joints that burned with "flair-ups."
This thread is boring because most of the posts are from duds who are interested in minutiae about things like what color some shrapnel from the plane was. You actually think anyone would ”claim” to have been so stupid as to rasp their lungs if it wasn’t true? The more you write the lamer you sound, can't wait for the "book" - which I'm certain will sound like it was written by someone greatly unfamiliar with life in the Valley. You don’t know who or what to believe, so shyt or get off the toilet already, Lickme. Publish or perish, as they say.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2011 - 10:53pm PT
Ah sidmo...Considering all of your Super Taco posts are all to this thread, spoken with true thought before the post...thanks
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 4, 2011 - 01:19am PT
yeah we had tacos today and they were super - meanwhile, your book ain't finished and the sun sets in the west and so what the phuck does it matter? you got nothing but boring details and anecdotes you don't know what to do with and the inability to spin a tale add to all that a ticking clock/calendar - ever work on a deadline? yeah, i didn't think so
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
bouldering
Dec 4, 2011 - 03:58am PT
You should have come up to the terrace ...
Jogged my memory that I once walked into the girls restroom there to post on the board that I needed a ride to Fresno. Got vibed, and left.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 4, 2011 - 08:36pm PT
sorry to hear that b-tech - getting badvibed is a bummer, but you should have tried again - most of the terrace gals were pretty cool, even the ones that weren't pretty -and there were often rides to fresno available, as there was shopping there - even hippie mountain girls liked to hit stores outside the park - they often cooked and fed climbers - we may have been wimpy friction climbers fresh off the apron but we ate well, and NEVER scrounged off trays in curry caf - living as a park bum in curry village was luxurious compared to the the denizen lifestyle around the lodge and c-4 - of course, that changed a lot after the plane, as we started eating at the ahwahnee and paying for at least some of the tabs there - lickme doesn't think our post-plane lifestyle metamorphosis is relevant, and i suppose it isn't if you're writing a story about nuts and bolts on a damn flying machine - all that crap bores me and i even used to be a pilot before moving to yose - lickme hasn't got a clue, but he's arrogant about his ignorance - oh well, the book might have been fun to read, but we'll all be dead or blind by the time he gets done with his masterpiece
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2011 - 12:11am PT
Sidmo, check your male
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 5, 2011 - 04:52pm PT
it's hangin' low lickme - worked fine last nite - if you meant mail, nuthin' there from you - and that suits me fine - anything you want to say to me you can do it right here - if it's something subjective, i don't care what you think no more than you care what's on my mind - it's one thing to be a journalist gathering info about something you know little about and something quite different to disrespect your sources - if you don't dig what you dig up just ignore it dude, don't dis it or the source - as much as this may hurt, the truth is you just don't get it and never will
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2011 - 10:57pm PT
You turned your member to member mail off.

To refresh your memory
"That was a bad time in my life. When I'm drunk & I start going back in my memory to those days I will usually end up with a melt down.
So lets get this over with right now. I will stop clicking on your stupid thread and posting sh#t & you stop sending me threatening emails @ 1 am."

Since you can't read email, I'll post what I did. Guess you can't live up to your word

Drunks are tedious, especially when they bark
labrat

Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
Dec 5, 2011 - 11:41pm PT
48 posts by sidmo. 46 of them dogging this topic. sidmo really has a problem with this thread....
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 5, 2011 - 11:54pm PT
oh licker, don’t believe every email you read on the worldly wizened web - that was soooo back when i had you pegged for a federale – i’ve since realized that even the guv’ment wouldn’t waste resources on you, even if the s.o.l. hadn’t done already expired on whatever we may or may not have done did – will this be an e-book lucky? there may not be paperbacks being printed by the time you git er’ done did - or trees to print ‘em on – i sure get a kick out of rattling your cage, gonna miss the fun if you go to print - but seriously folks, does anyone still got anything left to contribute? why not declare victory lackey, and print what you got? maybe you need a publisher, or better yet, did you blow the advance money and later realize writing is harder than posting? now if you please, ‘scuse me while i go get drunker – you know how it is for old rockheads like me, we just can’t keep off the juice - must be why you find us so frustratingly fascinating slickey – or is it fascinatingly frustrating? i’m so drunk already i gets confused easily – or is it easily confused? i just wonder what this thread is sewing up - maybe a dragnet perhaps?
Abenda

climber
Dec 6, 2011 - 11:21am PT
Listen here Rick Schloss,
That email that you posted above was from me, Roy Wonder, aka punk roy, and I don't like it ONE bit that you posted it here. It was a private email only for you.
You friggin drunk or somthin?
Now this morning I see you have sent me another threatening email saying I didn't live up to my word. I'll tell you right now in front of everyone that I have keep my word but you didn't as you have confused me with this person sidmo and now are posting private emails on a public forum. You don't have the right to do that!
BUT IDGAF.
If I came up with the same conclusions as this sidmo it doesn't mean that I and him are the same person. After your first threatening email you sent me I did a search of you Rick and I didn't like the stuff I found ONE bit. It went down a deep dark rabbit hole and I want to stay as far away from you and your friends as I can.
But if you send me ONE more threatening email or any emails I WILL report you for stalking.
Enough said.

Haven't been to supertopo for quite awhile. How is everyone? Anything good going on? I see there is a tread with no book.

Cheers Roy Wonder

Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Dec 6, 2011 - 12:20pm PT
Haven't been to supertopo for quite awhile. How is everyone? Anything good going on? I see there is a tread with no book.

Cheers Roy Wonder

Hi Roy. We were thinking about you recently. We just moved to West Seattle and there's a big skate park (on Delrigge) a couple of blocks below our new place. Is that some of your work?

D
Abenda

climber
Dec 6, 2011 - 01:11pm PT
Gee, didn't think anyone cared. Thanks, every thing's going ok.

Hey Kat, hope your doing ok these days. Marginal is out of control. So much new work I can't keep up with the youngsters.

Yeah Ghost. Delridge is the new and best park in the PNW. Didn't get to work on it, they brought the big boys up from Dreamland for this one. Red Scott & Swim. Shoot me and email and we'll go skate. I can take you to the west side bowl if you never been there.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 6, 2011 - 02:14pm PT

Abenda, this is a generalized private email to you that I think all those interested in the thread should see – hope it’s ok with you. As you know, I’ve been busting Schloss’s butt for some time now, albeit intermittingly. I began posting like most others, trying to be helpful without divulging info that might lead to other people. “Licky” was rude and dismissive, and his arrogance surprised me. The fact that I am a trained journalist led me first to surmise that Tricky Licky was in over his head, and later to believe that something more sinister was afoot – whether he is a fed or not really isn’t the issue, but he is gathering data about activities that were illegal at the time. Only after time elapsed (and the statute of limitations) did the topic become safe to discuss frankly. Licky seems oblivious to this, which makes me wonder what his real purpose is. If he is indeed writing a book and not working with officials why wouldn’t he want to alleviate that perception? He seems awfully close to the authorities and why would they cooperate with him willingly? For that matter, even if he was the heat why wouldn’t he be more thankful and not take our participation for granted? I’ve come to the conclusion that his lack of professionalism indicates that he is just a clueless idiot, and an incredibly rude one at that. In light of the weirdness of the whole thing, if he was serious then he’d make some effort to convince us of his good intentions. He should realize that this subject is a touchy issue for many of the people that may be able to provide him with info, and tailor his communication to alleviate their apprehension. As for his posting of private correspondence, he did the same thing to me as he did to you, and I don’t like it any more than you. He singled me out for criticism and acts like a stool pigeon, or a pesky little brother snitching on us to our dad or our teacher. It’s incredibly childish in my opinion. He’ll likely fire back at me for my tongue-in-cheek postings, but I’m not the one writing the book, so I’m not bound by any professional protocols. He’s going about this intelligence gathering in an entirely unprofessional manner. Whether or not he ever wakes up to that fact is a moot point, but the posters need to consider whether they’ve misjudged his intent. I was fooled for a while, and since then I’ve checked in from time to time out of curiosity. I hate to see Licky rewarded for inappropriate behavior, but that’s exactly what’s happening. Wake up everybody, and call him on his motives. It’s time for Mr. Schloss to come clean and stop taking advantage of trusting souls.
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Dec 6, 2011 - 02:20pm PT
Get a room........


BWA HA HA HA HA hahahaaaaaaa!!!!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 7, 2011 - 03:34am PT
Southern Police Institute
AOC
1994 – 1994
Abenda

climber
Dec 7, 2011 - 12:37pm PT
Administrative Officers Course

The 125th Administrative Officers Course Graduates

125th AOC

Upcoming Dates

127th Administrative Officers Course Feb 13 to May 11, 2012

Apply before Nov 22, 2011

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128th Administrative Officers Course Aug 13 to Nov 10, 2012

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Course Description

Mission

The Southern Police Institute is an integral part of the Department of Justice Administration in the College of Arts and Sciences of the University of Louisville. It is an advanced educational and training institute whose mission is to enhance the professional development of law enforcement practitioners. Since the creation of the Southern Police Institute in 1951, its program of instruction has been based on the belief that law enforcement is a demanding activity requiring the highest level of professional preparation. The Administrative Officers Course has been offered continuously since 1951. Today, it is our primary leadership development program. It is designed to provide a comprehensive and challenging educational experience that is intended to enhance the professional and personal lives of our students.

Course Description

The Administrative Officers Course is a twelve week (480 hour) in-residence, accredited college level educational program. The course curriculum is designed to develop informed, effective, ethically and technically competent law enforcement managers who are capable of assuming positions of leadership in their respective agencies. It is an appropriate course for individuals in or about to be promoted to middle and upper management positions. This comprehensive development program provides instruction in law enforcement issues, diagnostic problem solving, and administrative law. The varied methods of instruction used by the faculty permit participants to engage their individual creativity and initiative through the analytical examination of issues and problems faced by contemporary law enforcement executives. This course is required as a prerequisite for appointment to the position of police chief by many government jurisdictions throughout the United States. Numerous graduates of the Administrative Officers Course are among today's law enforcement leaders directing agencies throughout the United States and abroad.

Program Uniqueness

The Administrative Officers Course since its creation has attracted participants from law enforcement agencies throughout the United States, the Pacific Rim nations, and Europe. The diversity of this agency helps to foster an atmosphere of mutual respect and fellowship in which participants have the opportunity to learn from and share ideas with individuals they might not meet during the normal course of their professional activities. This interchange enhances the participant's skills in the art of cooperation, negotiation, compromise, and consensus. It ensures that class members will leave the Southern Police Institute with a network of graduates that will provide an outstanding resource from which they can seek assistance for organizational problems throughout their careers. In addition, the participants are exposed to a wide range of thought on the application of the program subject matter by experienced administrators, educators, practitioners, and Administrative Officers Course graduates who visit regularly to lecture. The institute's comprehensive educational environment and world recognized methods of instruction encourage a commitment to learning and self-improvement long after the course is finished.

The Graduate's of this program will:

* Possess the knowledge and skills required to manage and to direct the resources of any law enforcement agency;

* Be prepared to deal effectively with the complicated and important administrative issues confronting law enforcement managers;

* Possess an understanding of current law enforcement operational philosophy and practice;

* Possess an understanding of the contemporary legal responsibilities of law enforcement administrators;

* Be able to apply contemporary methods of problem identification, evaluation and solution; and

* Possess the knowledge and skills required to evaluate efficiency and effectiveness of law enforcement operations.


https://louisville.edu/spi/administrative-officers-course

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 7, 2011 - 12:42pm PT
Wow, in three months you'd be qualified to do all that? Damn! Either that
is one kick-ass course or all my previous misconceptions about tools are confirmed.
strangeday

Trad climber
Brea ca.
Dec 7, 2011 - 01:07pm PT
No book yet?? Imagine that... 6 1/2 years....
Abenda

climber
Dec 7, 2011 - 02:19pm PT
"Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2006 - 01:23am PT
This is a tough day for the families and friends of the pilots that crashed into Lower Merced Pass Lake. It is now the 30th anniversary of the plane crash and their death, December 9, 1976.

On a lighter note, It is also the 30th anniversary for those that found the plane and its cargo that helped launch the event that made the future for quite a few others. Whether it was simply purchasing that van and a ton of eight track tapes or providing the fodder for a book/movie, today is the day that sits heavy in quite a few minds.

If the wing that Ron Lykins had found was laying flat on the ground, things would have been very different for many today. Careers would not have been launched as they were.

I know this is a climbing forum, but everyone ought to stop and think about how much this event figured into the advancement of of the big wall craft.

Just saying... "





Ok Rick, What are you trying to say 5 yr l8r?




Everybody think now where you on Dec 9, 1976?
KabalaArch

Trad climber
Starlite, California
Dec 7, 2011 - 02:21pm PT
I found out that my son while working as a packer out of the south lake drainage, in LeConte Canyon. He was Hosting a full service trips for two weeks with a retired ranger and his wife. As the days pass they swapped stories of adventures in the serria. The ranger recited stories of the years on work in cronilogical order, my son piping in when ever he could relate. finally the ranger came round to when he was flown out to that lake near the last few days of people ransacking the wreckage, and how when he arrived people down right scattered. \
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 7, 2011 - 02:31pm PT
so, is that your alma mater slicky?
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Dec 7, 2011 - 03:12pm PT
It takes about an hour to train a bartender.

Sure, if all you have to teach him is how to pour free beers for cops...
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 7, 2011 - 05:09pm PT
Sidmo, I guess it takes one to know one right?

“There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance.”
 Hippocrates
Abenda

climber
Dec 7, 2011 - 05:47pm PT
"Topic Author's Original Post - May 21, 2005 - 07:35pm PT
In 1977 a plane loaded with dope crashed into Lower Merced Pass Lake. I knew the pilot and his wife since high school. "

Rick Schloss
Rick Schloss picture Milpitas High School Milpitas CA 1981
Rick Schloss’s picture
Milpitas High School
Milpitas, CA

Class of 1981

Member Since: Jan 1970

Biography: Life Because I was a military brat, the longest I lived in one place was about 2 1/2... read more
Rick Schloss's other Communities:

* Yoyogi Elementary School (1955-1956)
* Jane Addams Junior High School (1961-1962)
* Notre Dame High School (1961-1964)
* Wilbur Junior High School (1963-1964)
* Cubberley High School (1963-1967)
* Jordan Junior High School (1964-1964)
* Terman Junior High School (1964-1964)
* Highline High School (1964-1966)
* Edmonds High School (1966-1966)
* St. Francis High School (1966-1969)
* Los Altos High School (1967-1967)
* O'Rafferty High School (1967-1967)
* Foothill College (1967-1969)
* Travis Air Force Base (1969-1970)
* Berchtesgaden (1971-1973)
* Ramstein Air Base (1971-1973)
* Varian (1974-1977)
* Peterson High School (1975-1977)
* Verbatim (1976-1978)
* Dysan (1978-1990)
* Evotek (1980-1982)
* STI (1985-1987)


So tell us Rick, which high school did you meet these drug runners at?

BTW your dates dont add up.

Edit: I guess I should add this..

http://www.classmates.com/directory/public/memberprofile/list.htm?regId=2036125




"
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2006 - 10:50pm PT
Just a quick note for the speculators. They made the trip three times each month. The load each time was known and accounted for."

known and accounted for by whoom?


My guess is that you knew these drug runners for quite some time.
But thats just me making sh#t up again.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 7, 2011 - 06:17pm PT
Always believe everything you find on the Internet. Makes you believable
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Dec 7, 2011 - 06:22pm PT
Where's LEB when we need her?
Abenda

climber
Dec 7, 2011 - 06:22pm PT
A new supertopo record: LONGEST TROLL EVER.
Abenda

climber
Dec 7, 2011 - 07:18pm PT
This man is out of his mind. He just sent me this

Greetings from a Fellow SuperTopo Member!

This message has been sent from a fellow registered SuperTopo climbing member to you.

The message is:
If this is your attempt at outting me, all one has to do is go back to my first post. My name, city I live in, and my phone number are all posted there.

However, if you have more in minde, like I said...You going to bark little doggie or you gonna bite?
 Show quoted text -


What the hell you talking about Rick? I ask you above to stop sending me emails. But you couldn't do it, could you? You had to send me just ONE MORE email and insult me over and over again.

Ricknie@aol.com to me

show details 10:15 PM (17 hours ago)

Listen here Rick Schloss,
That email that you posted above was from me, Roy Wonder, aka punk roy, and I don't like it ONE bit that you posted it here. It was a private email only for you.
So you just outted yourself when I didn't. I'd have to say as an ex-punker/junkie out of San Fran, you haven't learned too much. Possibly you were just burning up cells you didn't think you'd be using later on. So telling everyone on the forum that it was you that sent me that garbage email was really smart? Ya think?

You friggin drunk or somthin?
No, I'm not drunk or "somthin", I don't do either

Now this morning I see you have sent me another threatening email saying I didn't live up to my word. I'll tell you right now in front of everyone that I have keep my word but you didn't as you have confused me with this person sidmo and now are posting private emails on a public forum. You don't have the right to do that!
BUT IDGAF.
**If you don't give a f*#k, why is it an issue? Ok, I f*#ked up honey. I did in deed mix you up with Sidmo. Both of you rant at me the same way and initially it sounded the same. Now after rereading both I can see the difference. Sidmo really can write....you can't, you can only bark.**


If I came up with the same conclusions as this sidmo it doesn't mean that I and him are the same person. After your first threatening email you sent me I did a search of you Rick and I didn't like the stuff I found ONE bit. It went down a deep dark rabbit hole and I want to stay as far away from you and your friends as I can. But if you send me ONE more threatening email or any emails I WILL report you for stalking.
Enough said.
Ok, no more emails from me. This is NOT a threatening email by any way shape or form. I don't need to stalk total jerks, they tend to do damage to themselves long before I get to them.


Haven't been to supertopo for quite awhile. How is everyone? Anything good going on? I see there is a tread with no book.

Cheers Roy Wonder

**Have a nice day Roy Wonder

Best regards

Rick Schloss**


And here's one more..

"You are quite the detective. So instead of "making sh#t up", do your f*#king homework and see if you can figure things out. If you can make a skate park, you ought to be able to figure this stuff out."


Already did and I want to stay as far away from you and your friends as I can. Only you wont leave me alone.

So lets revue: You posted a private email of mine, You wont stop sending me emails, and let's not forget the first threatening email..

"Licky ricknie@aol.com to me

show details Jun 18

Greetings from a Fellow SuperTopo Member!

This message has been sent from a fellow registered SuperTopo climbing member to you.

The message is:
Still waiting for a response ass hole. I've decided to take it way past the line. You want to respond? Want to meet?...something tells me that you just want to bark. As it was once said....you gonna bark little doggie or you gonna bite?

Sent by: Licky


WTF is to take it way past the line? You going to send people over to kill me? That what it means to me! Past the fkn line, eh? Well you should never have confused me with sidmo. Shows you were still thinking about me. thats scary.
So now all I got is to put this out to the public others can connect some dots if you want to keep this up.
You screwed up buddy & you can stop it right now. Not one more email to my box. Leave me the fk alone.


Edit: WTF do you mean by this:

"they tend to do damage to themselves long before I get to them."

Are you trying to say that you have got to people before and you have done damage to them and some times you have got there and the damage was already done so what do you do then? I would like to know what damage you do you to people when you get to them.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 7, 2011 - 08:55pm PT
I think I'm gonna go buy some beer with the money I put aside for this book.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 8, 2011 - 09:27am PT
great idea reilly - better use of the money you won't need for the book because THERE AIN'T NEVER GONNA BE NO PHUCKING BOOK
strangeday

Trad climber
Brea ca.
Dec 8, 2011 - 11:26am PT
Even if there ever is a book, the thread has all the info the casual reader would want. The pages of technical airplane crap would bore most readers. But alas, there never will be a book. I don't think the op intended to be a troll, but it's what it's become. The teases, the "more people coming out with stories" blah blah blah....it's all a joke. It's not the great American novel. It's about a singular event, that few even care about, and even fewer would care to read about. It was an interesting thread, buts it's probably time to move along, and quit talking about this imaginary "book"....
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 8, 2011 - 01:45pm PT
Yeah, after 1100 posts this thread has become threadbare. The only interesting items anymore are the pointed criticisms of lickety-split. Good thing he’s such a disagreeable butthole, it makes for better acrimony that way. Everyone should pile on now, I have a feeling the thread will soon disappear.
TruthHurtz

Social climber
Lima, Peru
Dec 9, 2011 - 12:06am PT
Looks like Lick-ola might disappear on his own. What a flame throwing yarn spinner he turned out to be. An interesting (for a few minutes) yet somewhat delusional chap, no? And such a short fuse. Tisk tisk,.. lick, lick,... tic, tic, tic....BOOM!
Abenda

climber
Dec 9, 2011 - 08:38pm PT
This should have been everyone's first clue:

"Licky

Social climber
California

Topic Author's Reply - May 22, 2005 - 10:54am PT
Well, believe it or not, one of my brothers was working a gate at Yosemite back then. Now he's in law enforcement and I'm seeing him today. I'll pose that question to him. Not to play legal eagle here, but its hard for me to believe almost 30 years later that it would still put people jeopardy. So, hold your breath and I'll report back. I'd bet a google search would yield that info as well for those that don't want to take my word.

And as far as a "Yellow Alert" goes. As I've said, we aren't even looking for names, just stories.
Licky

Social climber
California

Topic Author's Reply - May 22, 2005 - 06:48pm PT
WB, to answer your question, they were about half way from where they came from to about half way to where they were going. AND, they'd been doing it for quite a few years.

Stay tuned for more.... "



I personally don't care any more, I want more out of life than looking back to my past drug experiences.

I lived where many others have died. Don't you think that spooks me every figgin day?

Well, good nite & good luck. Be safe. Cheers.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2011 - 11:29pm PT
Roy, if you "personally don't care" then why keep this up?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 10, 2011 - 12:51am PT
Well lick has gone certifiably nutz now – he’ll likely go postal soon. He’s written me and in a vaguely threatening tone, much as he did to you, Abenda.
He wrote: “Thanks for the ride Sid, its been grand. I not only have what I was after, but then some.”
THE RIDE? What ride lick? And now you’re thanking me? For what, hassling you? You think this shyt is grand? OK, I get it that you’re being facetious, but even lunacy needs to be somewhat grounded in reality unless you want your life to seem like some old Monty Python skit. What is it you were really after boy? You’re deluding your feeble mind with this fantasy. If this is how you plan to write the book best keep it brief:
“Not to mention figuring out who and where you've been. You just ain't the one they think you are you”
Huh? “the one they think you are?”
Damn you’re idiotic. What does that mean?
“who and where I’ve been.” ????????
You started this stuff before dumbass. I told you before, I don’t care what you think, so why would I lie to you? To impress you Schloss? Are you that egotistical? LET ME REPEAT, I DON’T PHUCKING CARE WHAT YOU THINK, SO WHY WOULD I LIE TO YOU?
News flash – I want to be on record here:
I lived in the valley most of the time from ’73-’79, mostly in Curry Village. I climbed a lot, but it wasn’t all I was into. I worked some, bummed some, and scalped tickets at concerts in LA and the Bay Area for big bucks. I did not need much as much was provided for me by God. I generally had employee housing, often when I was not working. I know more about the plane than I’ll ever let on to you Licky because you don’t deserve even the info you already got. I’m a writer, but would never consider spilling the beans about you-know-what because, as someone posted earlier, the legend is best told around a campfire. I left the park in ’79 after busting me knee skiig in Tahoe and went on Dead tour around the US for a few years before settling down in the east bay.
Now schloss, if you secret data on me doesn’t agree with that story then your impeccable sources are blowing planepot smoke up your a*# again. You are so phucking gullible there’s not telling what you believe. And that, in a nutshell, is why your stupid book will be just that . . . a stupid book. Now, you don’t have to believe me but you’ll be an even bigger dumbass if you don’t.
As for you, nobody knows for sure, but I think you’re not really a cop but a wannabe cop – one of those schmucks that couldn’t qualify for the force for some reason. Maybe you have a record, maybe you’re just too fat, who cares? But you’re not a climber either. Sure, perhaps somebody dragged you up Harry Daley or the Grack on a toprope, but it’s a safe bet that you never stretched a lead out 40 feet past a manky chock on a 5.10B fueled by nothing more than adrenaline and a worn-out pair of EB’s. You’re a poser at best and a snitch at worst. As many on here have surmised, the S.O.L. probably ran out years ago on any crimes that may have been committed (although in Fed-land can one really be sure?) you have been petty and vindictive on this thread (don’t take my word for it, read Abenda’s posts) and clearly never learned to respect your sources in Journalism 101. In short Schloss, you’re a punk, and probably short too. You’re in a good neighborhood there in SJ, 4-500,000 dollar homes as I recall. So why are you doing this? Have you been banging your dead buddy’s old lady and want to get her some co-writer bucks? Nothing that sleazy or worse would surprise me. So I’d ask you if you ever smoked weed, climbed a rock or even slept in a sleeping bag without a tent – except that I don’t really care. You are irrelevant, but still fun to poke with a stick through your cage bars. IN A WORD SCHLOSS, GO TO HECK. Whoops, guess I can’t count either.

WBraun

climber
Dec 10, 2011 - 12:56am PT
sidmo -- "I don’t care what you think, ..."

And right after that you go on this long winded drool how much you really care.

You're not particularity bright more like a stupid moron who never knows when to quit.

God you're stupid .....
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 10, 2011 - 01:15am PT
That’s right braunwurst, I don’t care what you think. I’m just letting you know so that you won’t believe me. It’s more fun that way. Besides, if I don't get you to post I'll never expand my vocabulary learning great new words like "particularity." Yeah, I'm not nearly as bright as you.
Look , just because I get a kick out of telling you and Schloss that I don’t care what you think doesn’t mean I care what you think. I know the truth doesn’t faze Schloss so I suppose it don’t faze you either. Believe the lie not told if you prefer.
WBraun

climber
Dec 10, 2011 - 01:31am PT
God you're stupid .......
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 10, 2011 - 01:33am PT
HEY - YOU CALLING GOD STUPID?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2011 - 03:11am PT
Well Sid, I'll spell it out for you. I have what I need from the forum to complete the book. Today another from the forum contacted me with more info. So the stories keep coming in even though for some reason you've managed to make this a personal endeavor. You've not posted on any other forum thread so this is obviously something that you take to the heart. Or, your user name is nothing more than an alter ego that already posts on the forum.

As for me being a wannabie cop. You crack me up. Do your homework. My name and my background is readily available as I've said to Roy Wonder. I've never presented myself to anyone as nothing more than someone that is attempting to find the facts and tell the story as it is, not as people think it is.

And to quote the tail end of your email to me in 2008: "good luck to you and Pam - let me know how you feel and if i can help in any way - and don't forget the safety valve: "the names have been changed to protect the guilty". Talk about flip'n and flop'n!

Rather an odd comment coming from someone that has gone ballistic and only posts on this thread. And your comment about making "vaguely threatening tone"....you are now sounding like Chainsaw of a couple of years ago. After he went viral on this thread I was contacted by the Justice Department. As it turns out, they have a few climbers among their staff and they monitor SuperTopo on a daily basis. They let me know that they were not in the slightest bit concerned about me, rather they were looking into the comments made by posters here.

Sid..you have my name....you going to post your's?
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
bouldering
Dec 10, 2011 - 03:42am PT

That’s right braunwurst, I don’t care what you think.
LOL!
strangeday

Trad climber
Brea ca.
Dec 10, 2011 - 04:01am PT
Dead tour in '79... That must have been fun...
Abenda

climber
Dec 10, 2011 - 05:55am PT
Roy, if you "personally don't care" then why keep this up?

Thanks for reminding me, Bra. I'm outta here. no hard feeling, eh? you wont hear from me again. don't confuse me with any one else. Please. good enough.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 13, 2011 - 10:08pm PT
this thread is so feeble, it reminds me of an old favorite tune - if you don't recognize it, then i guess you weren't there

Please don't dominate the rap, jack, if you've got nothing new to say.
If you please, don't back up the track this train's got to run today.
I spent a little time on the mountain, I spent a little time on the hill
I heard someone say "Better run away", others say "better stand still".

Now I don't know, but I been told it's hard to run with the weight of gold,
Other hand I have heard it said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead.

Who can deny, who can deny, it's not just a change in style?
One step down and another begun and I wonder how many miles.
I spent a little time on the mountain, I spent a little time on the hill
Things went down we don't understand, but I think in time we will.
Now, I don't know but I been told in the heat of the sun a man died of cold.
Keep on coming or stand and wait, with the sun so dark and the hour so late.
You can't overlook the lack, jack, of any other highway to ride.
It's got no signs or dividing lines and very few rules to guide.

I saw things getting out of hand, I guess they always will.
Now I don't know but I been told
If the horse don't pull you got to carry the load.
I don't know whose back's that strong, maybe find out before too long.

One way or another, one way or another,
One way or another, this darkness got to give.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2011 - 02:57am PT
Sidmo..any chance that the Dead lyrics might be hitting a little close to home? John...
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 14, 2011 - 04:13am PT
Duh . . . for you slicky - why do you think i posted them, einstein?

“You can't overlook the lack, jack, of any other highway to ride.
It's got no signs or dividing lines and very few rules to guide”

it used to bug me when dudes applied vague lyrics to real life situations . . . used to . . . but this stupid narco-thread opened my eyes to the idiocy of trying to get hep to something when you just ain't hep -that's you linky - totally clueless - all the testimonials in the world can't put you in a place you weren't ever in - you'll never get it - you never climbed, valleyratted, or got involved with anything hipper than a mortgage - when you go to yose i bet you check into a room at the lodge . . . how cool! good place to interview rangers from - bet you don't diss them - you are such a dumbass to think that you can ascertain whether or not someone was someplace that you weren't - you are a pompous poser - you don't have any honorable right to this project, you're doing it for all the wrong reasons

"Now I don't know but I been told
If the horse don't pull you got to carry the load.
I don't know whose back's that strong, maybe find out before too long"

until you become a blood brother with yosemite granite you ought to cease and desist on
this "book" project, not that it's ever going to see the light of day nor the dark of printer's ink - you've scammed the community, and surprisingly some good people have been gullible enough to believe your lies, while you were judgmentally ruling on what you heard - when you were so stupid as to state that i "wasn't there" i knew you were a flake you sure as heck wasn’t there

PS: are you "rick" or "licky" or "ricknie" or "john" ?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 15, 2011 - 01:32pm PT
no response? must be one of dem "split personality" things - maybe we should call you sybil
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Dec 15, 2011 - 02:12pm PT
Just in case the first post gets deleted, here it is:

Licky

Social climber
California

Topic Author's Original Post - May 21, 2005 - 07:35pm PT
In 1977 a plane loaded with dope crashed into Lower Merced Pass Lake. I knew the pilot and his wife since high school. His wife and I are working on co-authoring a book about the incident. I am looking for anyone that can recall any stories about what went on in the area during the first few weeks following the crash. We are not looking to expose anyone, we are looking for stories to add to what we already knew happened up to that night.I have talked to a few ex park employees that were there at the time and have gotten their take on things. Anyone else?

Rick Schloss
San Jose, CA
408-295-1501
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 16, 2011 - 10:54am PT
can anyone define the term "social climber" in a context that relates to yosemite?
dictionary.com gives this:

social climber 
noun
a person who attempts to gain admission into a group with a higher social standing.

sounds like our friend mr. schloss allright
he is honest in his self-deprication even if not in his motive
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 18, 2011 - 01:26am PT
Sidmo...in your glass bubble, how do personal attacks end? Do players just walk away? Do they just pretend that nothing ever happened? Love to hear how bullies think things end. Or better yet, how do YOU think this will end?
Abenda

climber
Dec 18, 2011 - 04:36am PT
Rick, I know I said i would not come back but i just want to say something here. Sorry bra





Who the fk are you sidmo? You sure are an ass. You have tried to troll me into your spew's. I want nothing to do with taunting. That what drunks do. Ask me how I know. So i think you should just STFU.
Trango

Mountain climber
Livermore, CA
Dec 19, 2011 - 11:47am PT
Sidmo,

Please go away.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 19, 2011 - 02:47pm PT
OUCH! y'all's words cut me so deeply that i am humbly ashamed . . . NOT

my beef with licky was precipitated by his rude behaviour on a thread upon which he had no business to be arrogant - asking strangers to confess to federal crimes (yosemite IS a national park after all) should be done discreetly and politely - if the rest of you don't like my words exercise free will and refrain from reading them - if you want to hop onto licky's bandwagon then you have that right of course - but you may feel silly or worse when and if he finally does whatever it is he's supposed to be doing with all the info he's gleaned from the unsuspecting - go on, take sides if you like - as i've said before, i couldn't care less what any of you think - your scorn is as irellevent to me as i'm sure my remarks are to you - i sincerely hope that i'm mistaken, but i fear that licky has a hidden agenda, and if he does it is highly unlikely that he'd share it with us on this thread - call me a contrarian and cynic but i have a gut feeling about his true motive - and no licky, my gut feeling is not from a bad burrito as you say - i just have come to not trust you, sorry - so to all my critics, back him up if you will, but you may well be surprised when his true colors finally show - i, for one, will not be

HAPPY HOLIDAZE AND GOD BLESS YOU ALL (you too, mr. schloss)
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Dec 19, 2011 - 03:18pm PT
...fear that licky has a hidden agenda...

The book getting finished, or even really started, seems doubtful. This thread certainly suggests that the approach and implementation of the project is not what is needed to get a real book published.

Still, a hidden agenda? That reeks of paranoia.

Dave
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 19, 2011 - 04:21pm PT
Fatrad . . . you said it best: “I don’t know about federal law . . . “

Don’t trust amateur lawyers

Dave – one man’s paranoia is another man’s pragmatic caution

Licky may be what he says he is, and he might not be – who wants to risk talking to a man who gets rattled so easily? He does not abide by the rules of professional journalists and therefore is a rank amateur . . . or something else entirely
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Dec 19, 2011 - 04:33pm PT
Licky,

You start writing yet?

How many pages do you have?

How many hours a day do spend writing?

GC
Trango

Mountain climber
Livermore, CA
Dec 19, 2011 - 04:54pm PT
The federal statute of limitations is in 18 USC 3282 (United States Code), and is five years for all criminal offenses unless an exception is provided for by specific statute.

Exceptions include capital crimes, terrorism, and sex offenses against children, all of which have no statue of limitations.

Various other offenses have extended SOLs, which do not exceed 10 years.

Drug trafficking is not any of those exceptions.

I'm not a lawyer, but I know how to use Google.
WBraun

climber
Dec 19, 2011 - 05:06pm PT
The book is coming out.

Sidmo will be outed as his true identity.

The feds will be swarming like yellow jackets towards his abode to make the arrest.

Poor sidmo will be the only loser going to the slammer to meet his personal bubba in the shower room.

Poor sidmo will soon piss in his pants ......

lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Dec 19, 2011 - 05:20pm PT
Sidmo:

Jesse Ventura is trying to collect 50,000 signatures to run for President in 2012, he has 1,631 so far. Go to www.jesseventura.net, he is running on TRUST, JUSTICE and FREEDOM. Sign his petition maybe he can help, when he gets elected make sure you mention this to be his first well maybe second on his list when he gets in to do as president.

Also e-mail klimmer [sure he has signed as one of the 1,631]and ask if he thinks this is a conspiracy?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 19, 2011 - 05:59pm PT
thanx fellas, you guys are great - santa came early this year - as for pissing my pants, don't worry - i wear depends - i asked mr claus for a book about the plane, but he said his elves ain't finished it yet - guess mr schloss will have to write it
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Dec 19, 2011 - 06:38pm PT
When is this thread supposed to be locked? What the hell does that even mean? Locked in maybe and can't get out. Licked in is more like it.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 19, 2011 - 10:27pm PT
Graniteclimber...thirteen chapters, but only one really long page

ionlyski..it is locked, you can't post here
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Dec 19, 2011 - 10:42pm PT
Posting. Posting. Posting 1, 2, 3.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Dec 19, 2011 - 10:44pm PT
Help. I've fallen and can't seem to post here.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Dec 19, 2011 - 10:45pm PT
I must be doing something wrong lickme. It keeps posting.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Dec 19, 2011 - 10:50pm PT
Maybe CMac correctly decided lick doesn't actually own this thread or the info in it?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 20, 2011 - 12:35am PT
"Own" on a site owned and operated by someone else? Come on
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Dec 20, 2011 - 12:52am PT
Well then, how can you indicate the right to "lock" a thread? And for what reason? I tried to read your explanation (which didn't explain) but any reason seemed self serving. Seems like you imply ownership.

And why do you say it's locked anyway and that "you can't post here", when you clearly can and in fact you are posting whilst informing that one can't post. How bizarre!
Arne
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 20, 2011 - 12:06pm PT
King Lickme owns this thread, and don't you forget it. He started it for his benefit, and it would not exist if not for his forthright vision and tireless effort. We all owe him our selfless gratitude, as the thread has enhanced our lives so. I think I can speak for all Yosemite climbers past and present by giving Mr. Schloss a hearty "Thanks!" Where would we be without this wonderful thread?
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Dec 20, 2011 - 12:21pm PT
God you're stupid
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 20, 2011 - 01:34pm PT
yes indeed ionlyski, i am stupid - but that's ok, since you're not - all of us stupid people get to piggyback on you people who are not stupid, and thanks for that - why if not for people like you, the ones who aren't stupid that is, there would be no wonderful things like this thread where a stupid person like myself can benefit from the accumulated knowledge of the not-stupid people like you - thanks so much for not being stupid like me, and having the intelligence and candor to alert me to my affliction - yes, you not-stupid people are so kind and thoughtful to share your knowledge with those of us who are stupid - i am enlightened to discover my stupidity, and again, thanks so much for sharing your insight ionlyski
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Dec 20, 2011 - 01:40pm PT
God you're stupid.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 20, 2011 - 05:11pm PT
sorry, my bad - i thought you were flaming at me - i didn't realize you were calling GOD stupid - man, you are even smarter than i thought if you think you have the big guy beat in the brains department - and so eloquent as well - you are truly remarkable ionlyski, no wonder youonlyski - you're way too smart to be a dumb ol' climber
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Dec 20, 2011 - 05:17pm PT
I hope Licky isn't reading this crap and is focusing on writing the book instead.
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Dec 20, 2011 - 05:21pm PT
i didn't realize you were calling GOD stupid

Sidmo, Acting ignorant of a common figure of speech doesn't help you much. You absolutely know what he means and we know that you know it. Saying differently to insult him isn't all that insulting or funny. Your arguments might be compelling if not for the repetition and grade-school antics.

Just trying to make a helpful suggestion. Good luck.

Dave
Betty Uno

Boulder climber
Colorado
Dec 20, 2011 - 06:32pm PT


It's IRiS who'd be on their tail if anyone. Because, even if your income is from an illegal source, you still owe them for the making of it, lol.
Trango

Mountain climber
Livermore, CA
Dec 20, 2011 - 06:38pm PT
IRS has a statute of limitations too, 10 years. Although some states don't, including California.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 20, 2011 - 07:11pm PT
well dave, i assumed you would see right through my rhetoric - i just wanted to blast skibum for his sophmoric reply - i mean, do you really think my post is any more deserving of your criticism than his "god you’re stupid” blast delivered twice? Sounds like something straight from both kindergarten and the department of redundancy department – go ahead and seethe, or flame again, I don’t care – merry xmas to you just the same pal

the fact remains that licky is a hero to some but still is digging dirt on people about crimes they may have committed - so what if the SOLs are expired? maybe that is true, maybe not - i think you miss the point - he's using people but for what purpose? a book? please, its been 7 years - does anyone still believe he's writing a book? where's the sneak preview, a chapter or two, hell how about a phucking paragraph licky? if you had it you'd show it
Abissi

Trad climber
MI
Dec 20, 2011 - 08:23pm PT
I've been following this post with mucho interest. Not so much for the info on the plane (I wasn't there. As a matter of fact I was living in Connecticut at the time) but to see all the slander, lies and posturing.

This thread has me laughing my ass off, Keep it up guys. I really do need some more good humor.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 20, 2011 - 08:45pm PT
glad somebody on here is happy and not snarly and meanspirited - climbers can be so petty and combative, it used to be a sport that didn't demand ultracompetitiveness and macho posturing - before indoor gyms and timed ascents - this guy seems cool, we need more like him - merry xmas again everyone
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Dec 20, 2011 - 09:39pm PT
sidmo is/was chainsaw or actually chainsaw changes, turns into sidmo, now he goes by bugleboy. Your expert journalist credential’s or writings give you away.

Trango

Mountain climber
Livermore, CA
Dec 22, 2011 - 11:59am PT
Did everyone go back in their corners for a breather? It was just getting entertaining.

Although, I must agree that it would be considerably more interesting to have an actual book to argue about instead of everyone just flaming each other. Keep hope alive...
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2011 - 01:59am PT
I drew a very nice boarder for the first page. Think I'm on a roll now
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Dec 29, 2011 - 02:27am PT
Hope you got spellcheck when you wright your book, Licky.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 29, 2011 - 12:15pm PT
good idea licky - telling us how far you've come - you still think this project is one big phuckin joke, but that's what you are - you're also a muckraking hack . . . or you would be if you ever finished your "book" - must make you feel important to be writing a "book" - when you tell people that you're writing a "book" are they impressed? your whole persona is a lie - you're a poser, a wannabe, never a climber and never a writer - i've been both and at least i'm not impressed by your lack of ability nor by your lack of professionalism nor by your lack of personality - you're a loser and worse, happy new year - oh and by the way, keep guessing because i'm not chainsaw, hacksaw or any other stupid handle and you're a lousy detective if that's what you think - you suck
WBraun

climber
Dec 29, 2011 - 01:15pm PT
sidmo = positive id as a bonafide 5150

Fatty will haul him in and they'll tool him in the straight jacket he'll get put in ......
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 29, 2011 - 02:22pm PT
Has he climbed 1096, or maybe Basketcase?
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Dec 29, 2011 - 02:57pm PT

So sidmo is this you or not.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 30, 2011 - 11:22am PT
Wow, you guys really crack me up. So are you all acquainted with Licky? You defend him with such relish that I am guessing that you either know him personally or are unnaturally enamored with a perfect stranger in a manner that seems almost cultish. You reply to me and not to him, which I find odd. All I want is some evidence that a book project is even in progress, some paragraphs or a chapter would suffice. I guess all who criticize me believe Licky. That’s understandable, I believed him at first myself, but his erratic behavior led me to believe that he was definitely NOT a writer – but what he is I cannot say. Are you all just passionately convinced sycophants that cannot abide criticism of Licky for messianic reasons, or are you really trying to further the debate that we are so obviously engaged in? If the former is true then I’m out – you guys are more likely to be deranged than me or Licky. If the former is true, then be professional and address your complaints to him personally. As I’ve said here often, I don’t care what any or all of you think of me – I just don’t care, so you should address your concerns to Licky. This is his thread, remember?

Goodbye all, it’s been a hoot – happy new year, and YES I AM CHAINSAW!!

Since you guys seem to believe lies, so there’s one for your perusal . . . or is it?
WBraun

climber
Dec 30, 2011 - 11:30am PT
sidmo the idiot writes again -- "I don’t care what any or all of you think of me – I just don’t care, ..."

Of course you do, You're the supreme idiot, otherwise you wouldn't keep coming back.

You rank number one in stupidity.

There's no one as stupid as you are.

You should get a prize ......
Trango

Mountain climber
Livermore, CA
Dec 30, 2011 - 12:51pm PT
Exactly. If you so deeply don't care, sidmo, why are you still here?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 30, 2011 - 01:35pm PT
Yeah, and braunsweiger is ST's #1 lickylicker - he seems unusually predisposed to psychoanalyzing others, maybe he's intimately familiar with the process - have you spent a little time on the couch braunswurst? or do you have a bromance going with the lickster? whatever it is, i sure seem to rattle your cage without trying - can you and the rest of licky's cult can take criticism without crying?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 30, 2011 - 01:42pm PT
oh and to trango - i don't have to care what you think of me to have an interest in reading and writing on this thread - address licky if i bother you - i still think he's a phony and not because i care what you think about it or me - your cult is as delusional as he is, you shouldn't chug the kool-aid dudes
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Dec 30, 2011 - 02:40pm PT
Are you all just passionately convinced sycophants that cannot abide criticism of Licky for messianic reasons, or are you really trying to further the debate that we are so obviously engaged in? If the former is true then I’m out – you guys are more likely to be deranged than me or Licky.

ROTFLMAO!!!!

Gotta admit, Sidmo does has a way with words, knott to mention a painfully obvious point.
As we approach the seventh year of this thread, he is hardly the only guy wondering WTF is up with the book.

Knott that there's any rush of course!
WBraun

climber
Dec 30, 2011 - 03:25pm PT
I have no problems with licky getting criticism and he's a big boy and can handle himself too.

It's you that's a stupid idiot.

And I love to keep pointing it out to you
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Dec 30, 2011 - 04:18pm PT
I've met Licky, and he is in Fact a Real Person who is/was working on a Book about the Event. He was upfront and very respectfull of those who chose to work with him on this project. . .As to how long he is taking to write/research his Book? How many of you have Published a Book? Do you have ANY idea,clue?

SkidMark on the other hand seems to be a faceless/nameless. . .troll, with little Class and no respect. . .df
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Dec 30, 2011 - 04:31pm PT
James Joyce, took 17 years to write ~ Finnegans Wake.

Truman Capote, 4 years for ~ In Cold Blood.

The author of Van Morrison's Bio~ No Surrender, took 20 years to research and write his book.



Licky, Good luck on finishing your book..truly hope the book comes to fruition.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Dec 30, 2011 - 04:32pm PT
It's odd that no photos of what this bud actually looked like have surfaced on the interwebs. I remember it being almost black and shot through with red hairs, what I always imagined Punta Roja would look like.

EDIT: and lots of seeds.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Dec 30, 2011 - 05:08pm PT
Good point, Nita. This forum had its 10 year anniversary in September, so maybe the book will come out knott too long after this thread's 10 year anniversary?

Again, no rush!
corniss chopper

climber
breaking the speed of gravity
Dec 30, 2011 - 06:22pm PT
Looking at this type of plane I'd bet a pilot would feel supremely
confident going where others would fear to go.

Close up video of a nicely renovated Lockheed Lodestar plus some low level
passes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXHf0wdDv4
monolith

climber
berzerkly
Dec 30, 2011 - 07:23pm PT
Maybe the movie will come out first. Could even have some gratuitous climbing scenes.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Dec 30, 2011 - 07:35pm PT
It already did.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Dec 30, 2011 - 09:31pm PT

It's circus time, sidmo. Who wants candy now?
GuapoVino

Trad climber
All Up In Here
Dec 30, 2011 - 10:44pm PT
Cliffhanger

Watch the last 3 seconds of the clip after the girl falls. The guy in the helicopter is laughing his ass off.

And he seems to be getting off on it at 0:14.

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOW1rhZCTmg]
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Dec 31, 2011 - 12:50am PT
Gea Phipps did the stuntwork on that gag. 400 feet if I recall. Yikes. Doubt I could bring myself to do that.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 14, 2012 - 02:44am PT
Jack Dorn had been on a "Do Not Hire" list. He owed money to the Park and was on a posted list to not hire him until he paid what he owed. His family could not understand why the Park was not forth coming with more info on his death. They didn't know that he was under investigation for the plane crash as a potential player.

The family knew nothing about the plane crash, the black book, the investigation, and the dope.

The Park sent a letter to them explaining about the do not hire list. The family thought that the silence was due to a potential law suit regarding a wrongful death law suit.


You get this Sidmo? You have a grasp of what might be out there?
bookie

climber
Jan 14, 2012 - 04:04am PT
Books about drug adventures is a well trod genre.

There have some excellent true drug books, Bruce Porter's 1993 book Blow: How a Small Town Boy Made $100 Million with the Medellín Cocaine Cartel and Lost It All that was made into an okay movie with Johnny Depp and a young Penelope Cruz, also Robert Sabbag's 1976 memoir Snowblind A Brief Careeer in the Cocaine Trade. Also Goodfellas ended up being a movie about drugs, based on the 1986 non-fiction book Wiseguy by Nicholas Pileggi, who co-wrote the screenplay with Scorsese.

One of the best drug books, and best written, was Mark Bowden's Killing Pablo: The Hunt for the World's Greatest Outlaw, Pablo Escobar, Columbian drug lord. Bowden also wrote Blackhawk Down.

Publishers are very careful about what they publish these days, so it may be a good idea to talk to some book agents and publishers before writing the book. This is actually a genre that has a rich history, and that may affect the book's prospects as much as the actual story. Talk to Jeff Long about his 1987 book Angels Of Light, which was based on the plane crash incident near Yosemite.

The story also has parallels with the attempts made from 1965 to 1968 by the Central Intelligence Agency to place a nuclear-powered listening device on Nanda Devi in India to spy on China's H-bomb tests. Some top notch American climbers were involved with that caper. Crime or spying, mixed with climbing has been done. Plus see Eastwood's Eiger Sanction, and the recent Tom Cruise Mission Impossible flicks, they are all part of that genre. Even the 1991 K2 movie (and even a minor 1983 play K2 by Patrick Meyer) was loosely based on the 1978 first American ascent of K2 by some excellent American climbers.

Writing the book is the easy part, selling it may be hard, even if it sounds like a good story to the climbing community.
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
Jan 14, 2012 - 04:23am PT
Glad to see that you're still around Bookie, despite what you might see as an unwarranted attack on that other thread. You have a wealth of knowledge that is (and will be if you care to share it) much appreciated here.

Licky: God speed with the book. I look forward to it.

Sean
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jan 14, 2012 - 12:46pm PT
Huh?! What is it that I’m supposed to “see out there” Lick? You sound like you’re “out there” to me. Am I supposed to be surprised that Jack was 86’ed by the NPS? WOW, that is just so damn revealing Lick. If you knew anything about life in the Valley during the seventies – which you don’t – you’d be familiar with LEO Rangers overstepping their boundaries. If you ever publish – which you won’t – you’d be well-advised to be skeptical about claims made now by park authorities, despite your fascination with cops. They trampled on the rights of climbers with impunity and regularity and you should decide what rendition of the “facts” you are going to believe. That the NPS would not hire someone that owed them money shows that they’d rather use the debt as leverage to harass the debtor – no surprise to anyone who actually lived and chafed under federalist rule in Yosemite. Again, you couldn’t possibly understand that without having lived there. Like Bob Weir sings, “You ain’t gonna learn what you don’t wanna know” and you don’t want to learn anything that don’t agree with your previously-held Tea Party-ish beliefs that authority figures are to be believed and respected. You probably drink in a bar frequented by San Jose’s off-duty cops . . . or on. The feds were bullies and tyrants in Yosemite, believe it.
sempervirens

climber
Jan 14, 2012 - 01:25pm PT
How does one owe money to the National Park Service? Hadn't heard of that before. Guess it's possible,...
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jan 14, 2012 - 06:59pm PT
Huh?! What is it that I’m supposed to “see out there” Lick? You sound like you’re “out there” to me. Am I supposed to be surprised that Jack was 86’ed by the NPS? WOW, that is just so damn revealing Lick. If you knew anything about life in the Valley during the seventies – which you don’t – you’d be familiar with LEO Rangers overstepping their boundaries. If you ever publish – which you won’t – you’d be well-advised to be skeptical about claims made now by park authorities, despite your fascination with cops. They trampled on the rights of climbers with impudence and regularity and you should decide what rendition of the “facts” you are going to believe. That the NPS would not hire someone that owed them money shows that they’d rather use the debt as leverage to harass the debtor – no surprise to anyone who actually lived and chafed under federalist rule in Yosemite. Again, you couldn’t possibly understand that not living there. Like Bob Weir sings, “You ain’t gonna learn what you don’t wanna know” and you don’t want to learn anything that don’t agree with your previously-held Tea Party-ish beliefs that authority figures are to be believed and respected. You probably drink in a bar frequented by San Jose’s off-duty cops . . . or on. The feds were bullies and tyrants in Yosemite, believe it.
damo62

Social climber
Brisbane
Jan 14, 2012 - 07:53pm PT
LOL LEB
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 14, 2012 - 08:24pm PT
We can only pray that this Old Folk's Home does not have WiFi.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 24, 2012 - 10:42pm PT
bvb...I'll be booking speaking engagements at all of the retirement homes.Only thing is that it'll be for free
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 9, 2012 - 08:52pm PT
The Contrarian Cometh
Is Lickme or any of his psycho sycophants ready to again swallow his bile or are you finding the logical hemisphere in your brains and ready to admit that this exercise is a joke? The joke, albeit not one with much mirth, is on all of you suckers who think Lickster is a prophet, as opposed to a mere seeker of profit. Where’s the needle on this thread? Have the like-minded toadies on this site that attacked me with such venom and fervor disappeared, or has Lickme herded his flock to another location to avoid those pesky opinionators who refuse to drink his koolaid? A new thread stiched into an undisclosed location would certainly cull the unconvinced, and Licky would be free to preach his subjective but inexperienced sermons on the granite mount(ain) to his bleating flock. The thought of Schlossy surrounded by yes-men is humorous, as you all line up to kiss his royal ass on line. Why wasn’t I invited? Because Licky can’t handle the truth. Challenge his pre-concieved notions of Yosemite life in the seventies and you open yourself to biased criticism from the dear leader and his mere readers. While true academics reach out to informed people representing several opposing and sometimes conjoined opinions on the relative topics, Licky has decided unilaterally what the true story should be to suit his non-academic purposes and simultaneously schmoozes his minions while demonizing his detractors (or anyone who deigns to defy the accepted version of history.)
Why do I care? Great question. Perhaps I hate posers, or just think people who try to squeeze into a subculture in order to write opinionated drivel that slates the masses but does little to advance the cause of informed knowledge. Such was the case when the Hell’s Angels allowed the writer Hunter S. Thompson into their world to ride and party with the outlaw motorcyclists. Things were fine until the story came out, and the writer’s sources claimed to be misunderstood and misquoted in a journalistic hack job called Hell’s Angels: A Strange and Terrible Saga. According to the Angels’ president Sonny Barger in his autobiography, when Thompson took one last run with the bikers after publication he ran afoul of a scary-looking beard of a man named Junkie George who “polaxed Hunter while a couple of us kicked him around.” Many think the future purveyor of “gonzo journalism” was an opportunist who wrote more for effect than enlightenment. Sounds like what is likely forthcoming from Licky, but his product would more aptly be referred to as "Bozo Journalism." Barger continues whining about the literary treatment his club was victimized by. “I read the book . . . when it came out in 1967. It was junk. . . . There was a lot of writer’s exaggeration along with a writer’s dream-and-drug-induced commentary . . . stupid mythology came right out of Hunter’s book.” Is that what the climbing community in general, and the veterans of 1970s Yosemite in particular want as our enduring published legacy? Are we not to learn from the mistakes of the Oakland Hells Angels and question this manuscript before its mistakes and outrageously erroneous assumptions cement the inaccuracies Licky’s story is most certainly going to perpetuate in word to the rails in front of the train wreck of subjective opinion? If we allow Licky to rewrite history in a book that goes unchallenged he will be the gatekeeper of the facts and secrets of the plane story. Subsequent generations will assume that what is in print must be true, and those of us who were actually there and involved will lose our informed voices . . . except those who would enable a fanboy like Licky to achieve a status that he neither deserves nor exemplifies – that of an unbiased and holistic chronicler of events that he was not a party to. Lickme may be many things (gutless groupie comes to mind) but a journalist he is not. Unfortunately, that distinction will not be enough to keep him from becoming a writer. Anyone with two index fingers and a word processor these days can pretend to be informed . . . and to inform. Verify your sources and you’ll find that Mr. Schloss is, as I have described him before, a poser and not a player.

canyoncat

Social climber
SoCal
Feb 9, 2012 - 09:52pm PT
Sidmo,
those of us who were actually there and involved will lose our informed voices . . .

If your claim to being there and "involved" is even half of the truth, I doubt your memory would be too swift? Ganja affected memory and all that.
splitter

Trad climber
surfing the galactic plane
Feb 10, 2012 - 11:41am PT
sidmo.

wtf difference does it make one way or another(book or nada book)?

or if licky/ricky had any ulterior motives, is the heat, or whaddevah.

most likely(as he has stated)he has gotten a bit bogged down with the techn. aspects of the aircraft, etc. & a book will eventually surface.

if he' the heat, then the only crime that would still be of interest(IMO)would be Murder One(1st degree)...does that make you squirm, keep you up at night...wake you up in a panic? then turn yerself in. if not, why do you give a damn?

he(Rick)stated that he was life long friends with the pilot & his wife & was interested in writing a story about the plane & its ultimate demise.

everyone here freely shared their experiences, and it resulted in an interesting thread. if it may or may not ultimately contribute to the finished product in some small or large way, so be it.

Move on & Get a life!

edit: (2/13 5:01)okay sidmo, that's one way to look at it. maybe he adopted that attitude because otherwise he would be overwhelmed with the hundreds of peeps he's interviewed & their repetitious questions & emails...no wonder he hasn't finished. just guessing, but put yourself in his shoes & cut him some slack...
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 13, 2012 - 07:46pm PT
yeah, i can dig that - actually i have a life - i figured most of you get it, that i just bust ricknie's balls once in a while just so he'll feel some pressure to publish - y'all don't do him any favors by telling him it's ok to delay, he's sure to take forever if he's not prodded - look, i don't really care, but i would like to read it before i go blind or die - in some ways he seems opportunistic to write about such a sensitive topic, but i admit that the connection to the pilot certainly legitimizes his motivation to some degree - i only think that he's being unprofessional in his approach and response to some of the posters, myself included - but would my animosity towards licknie keep me from buying a copy of his book? hell no! i'm still a fanboy who would eagerly read this book and i reserve judgement on the product until it's printed - but i still think he needs to treat everyone respectfully even if he disagrees - the lame attempt to paint me as someone who wasn't there is ludicrous - i can state with all certainty that he was NOT there so how would he know? and as far as me being chainsaw, that just shows how unprofessional he is to let a source get under his skin like that - there's nothing wrong with being unprofessional as long as you're trying to improve, but i can't say that licker is or isn't doing that - i don't really care, i only check this site occasionally as a pastime - but i would like for him to finish already
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 19, 2012 - 03:37pm PT
So what? So you talked to DG and “warned” him – sounds like you are the one who needs to get a life . . . or a grip. So I use “high falutin lingo” – something wrong with being literate? Should I dumb it down for you and jocko? Has it ever crossed your feeble mind that perhaps I’m just busting Licky’s balls some to spur him to glory? The guy needs a kickstart so we can see what he’s got. i look on here about twice a week and enjoy seeing the discord. As for being a BT hustler, actually my range extended to the Terrace, Tecoya dorms, Ahwahnee dorms and NPS housing – even Foresta before it burned. I never cheated anyone nor snitched on anybody. And the others whose lives intertwined with the plane . . . are they all “hustlers” too? Am I to be ashamed because you disapprove? You need an ego check Timid, or is it messic? I cant figure you out, but not really interested enough to pursue it. You were too timid to lead a pitch I suppose – that makes you a pussy in my book. As for stealing my gal, the only time that happened was with the “Hand” and only after I dumped her for being psycho. Good riddance to her and him – if Hand is your friend then ask him why he can’t find his own girls. I’ve never stooped so low as to steal a friend’s gal, there’s just too many fish in the sea for that. And for the record, I have a life . . . a great one in fact, thank you very much. Go play with your Boystown boys. Oh, and VW's were pussy cars for chicks so, no, I never owned one.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Feb 19, 2012 - 05:08pm PT
Against all odds, this 7-year old thread suddenly got interesting again.


Carry on...
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Feb 19, 2012 - 07:40pm PT
sKidmo, Timid is off sailing, fishing, and birding...........

I lived in the park back then, and beyond..
I actually find Timid's description of you - extremely kind.



sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 19, 2012 - 09:24pm PT
For me to come clean I’d need permission from others with whom I may have been associated at the time – it might sound like an excuse, but of course it is just that. As much as I’d like to read licky’s book and contribute stories, I see no need to do so. Nothing to gain even if there is nothing to lose. It’s not about statutes or snitches, at this point it’s a matter of both trusting licky and wanting him to succeed. Neither applies to me. And despite the flattery of being insulted by a beautiful girl (as opposed to a bunch of jocked-out climber ustabees) I still don’t care if any of you like what I write, not even you, cutiepie.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 19, 2012 - 11:15pm PT
I think we are talking about different jacks, jox – and as for your ability to read betwixt the lines, don’t play the market – your esp ain’t hitting on all the cylinders. I don’t want to hurt licky, get even with whichever jack you choose, or impress you or anyone else here. You got it all wrong dude, but no surprise there. How and where did you dry your stash? I’d rather not involve anyone who’s not on the thread willingly. Some people may have good reasons to avoid notoriety that have nothing at all to do with statutes of limitations or legal fears. Sorry if that don’t satisfy your curious curiosity.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Feb 20, 2012 - 01:43pm PT
So is that you don’t care or really don’t care or you do care but don’t. Could it be you really, really don’t care or really I am serious “I don’t care” about being “I don’t care or “I do not care”.

Maybe change it to don’t give a Sh#t? Or do really care but do not want to admit it.

Interesting about your second to last posting:

“For me to come clean I’d need permission from others with whom I may have been associated at the time – it might sound like an excuse, but of course it is just that. As much as I’d like to read licky’s book and contribute stories, I see no need to do so. Nothing to gain even if there is nothing to lose. It’s not about statutes or snitches, at this point it’s a matter of both trusting licky and wanting him to succeed. Neither applies to me. And despite the flattery of being insulted by a beautiful girl (as opposed to a bunch of jocked-out climber ustabees) I still don’t care if any of you like what I write, not even you, cutiepie”

“For me to come clean I’d need permission from others with whom I may have been associated at the time – it might sound like an excuse, but of course it is just that.”

Come clean and needing permission? I do not get that and could you explain that better? Oh! wait I see just the above again as I always see you write “I still don’t care if any of you like what I write”.

You criticized Licky for not having journalistic credentials, no biggie don’t need to be an academia to write a book or paper on any just about anything. But you suggest that you have if I am correct and please correct me if I am wrong. What is/was your subject line, did you write a couple: one for the Rolling Stones maybe Playboy or more towards Readers Digest. Books on what?

Something you also wrote a few posts back;” The feds were bullies and tyrants in Yosemite, believe it”. So you are wrong on that. They were stupid and that was just a start, so you are incorrect. Are your initials: GP, might explain things, rumor went in witness protection program?

Thought for a while and was sure just a communication to “spook’ from the Feds but again thought maybe just one/two person could be involved. Is it you Sidmo did the Feds make you a deal that scared the sh#t out of you and you helped them with this but you have to get permission to come clean to tell or did it alone.

So what part did you play with this or know about it. Just enough setback footage to look in the widow to make sure it was clear to proceed. Then again you could not tell or respond anyway: who would in the right mind. Still part of this history and needs resolution to the story.



Looks to me you just want to be a wannabe so give us some titalizing info like Rokjox suggests. I think you blew it and never had the chance to go real big like some did and just a cry baby because you were too stupid. Just a con.

Off/on the subject wonder if you knew four guys that gave a blanket party to one of MCA’ security guard. Great if you did or were involved. Those wonderful guys that ran around and would go in the dorms rooms while the workers were out of their rooms to collect information on them. What was your work qualifications while working for them?

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 20, 2012 - 08:06pm PT
yeah, whatever dude - everyone has an opinion and an as#@&%e, keep fantasizing if it turns you on – I think we all had unique experiences, but I haven’t challenged anyone’s stories or tried to discredit anybody – again, why would I bother? You guys hate when I say it but I don’t care what you think – why should I?
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad surfing the galactic plane
Feb 20, 2012 - 09:35pm PT
since sidmo, not only seems to have a fixation on rick, but seems to also have one on all the chickies in the ditch bitd, i was jus wonderin, did anyone here about a dorm known as 'no man's land'. think it was some where over by the awannee..although i could be wrong on the location since it was dark upon arrival and exit.

edit: and btw, jack d wasn't the type a guy that needed ta, nor would fer that matter, steal nobodies chickie...jus' sayin.

edit edit: well, none of his friends women is what i was alluding to.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 21, 2012 - 10:42am PT
Okay rox, I stand corrected – you seem like a stand-up guy after all – glad you’re a family man, wish I had a son to take climbing – I’ll propose a truce again, but this is always the point where lick rises from the dead to blast me – I think he digs the acrimony, maybe it’ll help him sell the book – I’m still gonna buy one. I don’t hate the dude, I just think he acts like a bozo
zBrown

Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
Feb 24, 2012 - 06:07pm PT
Well I had never heard of any of this, but it seems kinda small time when compared with say The Brotherhood of Eternal Love (Laguna Beach - think: the large size pineapple juice cans full of hash oil by the pallet) or The Coronado Company (where else? Coronado - think freighter loads of Thai Stick) which I'm pretty familiar with and are from the same era, before drug dealing became a much scarier proposition.

The Brotherhood got a Rolling Stone article and a book:

http://www.amazon.com/Orange-Sunshine-Brotherhood-Eternal-Spread/dp/0312551835

Coronado Company made it all the way to "60 Minutes".

What's the story here? Is it necessary to read some 1200 messages to find out?.

And this has been going on since 2005? Where's the book?

Did folks climb on acid, like they rode the Pipeline (Coronado boy) and the Wedge (Laguna Beach professor)?


Will they pursue you after 30-40 years? Sure 'nuff. How hard? Who knows? Whose face did you get into? (2009)

On Sept. 26, the last remaining member of the Brotherhood was captured after four decades on the run, when he returned to the United States using his own passport which he obtained using his real name. Brenice Lee Smith, who grew up in Anaheim and was one of the Brotherhood's founding members, was arrested by U.S. Customs agents at San Francisco International Airport just minutes after arriving from Hong Kong on the second leg of a trip that started a day earlier in Kathmandu, Nepal, where he'd lived since the late 1970s. He was immediately jailed on two 40-year-old charges of smuggling hash.


WBraun

climber
Feb 26, 2012 - 10:55am PT
Word on the street is they're not looking for anybody except some guy named sidmo .....
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 26, 2012 - 12:45pm PT
well thank you ZB - I’ve been pilloried here for merely suggesting that the statute of limitations might be . . . well, limited - often rights are limited to those who can afford to lawyerup - the plane, while a bonanza at the time, didn't produce any zillionaires, and with inflation it is unlikely that any of those involved could afford exorbitant legal fees now - this story may involve, and probably does, current or ex-smugglers who are well-funded, but licky has sought out the climbing community for info without adequately assuring us that he is certain of the safety of coming clean now - and the mere statement of doubt raised the hackles of many on the thread . . . why, i don't know - armchair attorneys love to diss paranoids as ignorant of the SOLs, without really knowing themselves if they apply or not - i find the discord on this thread to be juvenile at best, and imbecilic at worst - none of us knows for sure, but you certainly raise suspicion and thankfully return the thread to a saner place - thanks again
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 26, 2012 - 05:47pm PT
Wow, W Brautwurst is back, and as eloquent and well-spoken as always – where ya been sausagedog, walking the beat on narc street? I’m shakin’ in my EBs dude – finally this guy pops up with some relevant info, and you revert back to the old time-tested technique of talking shyt for whatever childish reason you have –take licky’s pud out of your mouth, grow up and learn something dumbass – your energy should be put to better use than attacking knowledge – makes you look dumber than dirt
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad surfing the galactic plane
Feb 26, 2012 - 06:28pm PT
"two 40-year-old charges of smuggling hash"

He/they were fugitives from the law. They had arrest warrents posted for them within the SOL. As far as I am aware of, there were & are no arrest warrents on the books in regards to the subject at hand. Or, at least, I have'nt noticed any posted on any post office walls. And their not going to now because it is to late...except for murder!!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 26, 2012 - 06:47pm PT
The way this thread is goin' it might come to murder cause it don't appear
Sidmo is gonna settle for anything less.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 27, 2012 - 12:46am PT

Oh really, reilly – aren’t you being a bit harsh? Don’t be silly. All’s I’m saying is if some stranger wants good people to spill their beans without benefit of knowing them (or at least being able to look him in the eyes,) he ought to do his homework and state definitively with annotations how all this immunity from prosecution works – all those references to SOLs is damned vague, and it shouldn’t be too difficult for a third-year undergraduate (much less a top-rate journalist of Licky’s stature) to do the research and inform those that he questioned, which is everyone who reads this thread

and it’s not about being involved, that could come later – it is about being informed and that should come first, out front and center

if you disagree then you’re probably looking at the issue with a narrow focus – try to broaden it and consider things from all perspectives

in other words, think about it differently just for fun – maybe you’ll change your mind
zBrown

Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
Feb 27, 2012 - 03:08pm PT
No reason to thank me. I'm just trying to clutter up what is already a pretty messy thread. I'll leave it to the reader to figure out the commonalities and differences among the groups.

I believe charges against Smith have been dropped by now and most likely he was arrested because the prosecutor handling his case is Jim Hicks, who happens to be the son of Cecil Hicks, Orange County’s DA BITD (one of the guys whose faces were gotten into.

By and large most of the "culprits" down south got relatively minor sentences, though there were signifcant forfitures of the wealth amassed, and many returned to dealing again as soon as they were released, and some got arrested again. (e.g. William Leonard Pickard, reputed former Brotherhooder, arrested in "the largest lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) manufacturing case in history", in 2000 in the "Kansas Silo Bust")


Is there ever gonna be a book and does anybody really care?

@Licky If you don't see the parallels then I don't hold out much hope for your book, should it ever be written. Do you think the world, or specifically, the climbing world, would be significantly different today had the airplane never crashed? Hopefully not stealing any thunder from your project, perhaps you could tell us in what way(s)?
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Feb 27, 2012 - 04:14pm PT
Did folks climb on acid, like they rode the Pipeline (Coronado boy) and the Wedge (Laguna Beach professor)?

I snorted coffee through my nose whan I read this. Is this question serious?
zBrown

Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
Feb 27, 2012 - 07:38pm PT
Is this a serious question?

Whaal, it wasn't meant to be, but now that you bring it up, I wonder if it could be done? People actually did ride some very scary waves under the influence of lsd.

zBrown

Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
Feb 27, 2012 - 07:59pm PT
This is so old n tired who gives a sh#t about dope dealers who crash a plane, some local people finding it and selling shitty moldy fuel soaked weed. that's about as interesting as how my moms last barium enema went.

Exactly! When you're sittin' around drinking beer and talking sh#t about the good old days it's kinda fun, especially if you knew some of the people. Whether it warrants a book is another question and would turn on what else is in the book I spose. On the other hand, apparently some people are interested to the tune of about 1200 on your FM dial.


Go on take the money and run
Billy Mack is a detective down in Texas
You know he knows just exactly what the facts is
He ain't gonna let those two escape justice
He makes his livin' off of the people's taxes
go-B

climber
Habakkuk 3:19 Sozo
Feb 27, 2012 - 08:14pm PT
I knew Deadhead Sid at the time of the crash, friends with Cutty?

Sh!t don't be paranoid Sid, you were cool back then, quit freakin out, these guys were Yabo's peers!
I remember we were all in a perpetual stupor before the crash, sh!t, tee hee!
Abenda

climber
Feb 29, 2012 - 09:02pm PT
Yabo tells no tells. Arrrrr.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 1, 2012 - 09:45am PT
i'm not paranoid for myself, but everybody's not hip to this thread and they don't know that licky's stirring up all this shyt - it was fine at first, seemed harmless enough - then lick started dropping off the thread and re-emerging, often with animosity towards those whose posts he did not like (me and chainsaw for example - he even thought we were the same guy, what a dumbass!!)
i just think he ought to adress our concerns if he wants access to our memories

as for cutty, met him my first day in yose, but didnt camp with him after '74 or '75 i think
talked to him recently and he's doin ok
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 1, 2012 - 11:24am PT
Reading this thread is akin to jacking off with your dick encased in cement. Nothing is ever going to happen here.
WBraun

climber
Mar 1, 2012 - 11:26am PT
Word on the street is Sidmo's brain turned to mush smoking to much airplane weed .....
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 1, 2012 - 12:01pm PT
what are you still panhandling on narc street brauney? "word on the street"???? cute phrase dumbphuck - if you were there, and knew anyone who wasn't a broke loser geek like yourself, you'd remember that hardly anyone in the valley who knew people (and could buy gold lumbo or thai stix) actually smoked plane weed - the joints caught fire, the pot smelled terrible and tasted worse - so, no i did not smoke "to" much plane weed (learn to spell, jerkoff)
maybe over on the lodge side of town parkbums were smoking flamer doobies and then scrounging off cafeteria trays when they got the munchies, but we were toking dakine and eating at the ahwahnee - sorry you didn't rate, but if you lived in the dirt you smoked dirt weed - did you ever get a hot shower living in yosemite? sorry to tell you that i took two a day, but you get your kicks thinking i'm the loser - dream on pal
WBraun

climber
Mar 1, 2012 - 12:05pm PT
LOL

sidmo you're so easy to string along.

See ya in San Quentin .....
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 1, 2012 - 01:12pm PT
yeah braunboy, save me a cell next to yours - just wonderin', do you have this sanctimonious attitude because your were the first one on here to post a reply to lick? all that says is that you were dweeb internet junky who swooped down onto a thread because you weren't outdoors doing something athletic - are you an armchair climber? or rocking chair mountaineer? or just licky's pit bull, drooling on his bone?
WBraun

climber
Mar 1, 2012 - 01:13pm PT
Hahahah look at him go .....
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Mar 1, 2012 - 01:18pm PT
sidmo seems upset...

Funny someone would compare you to Chainsaw too..
zBrown

Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
Mar 1, 2012 - 01:21pm PT
Reading this thread is akin to jacking off with your dick encased in cement. Nothing is ever going to happen here.

I can't get a grip on that, is this conjecture or from experience. LOL
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Mar 1, 2012 - 01:24pm PT
I can't get a grip on that,

Just figuratively I hope!
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 1, 2012 - 02:02pm PT
i'm not upset, but stupid people bore me, and braun ain't the brightest bulb on the christmas tree - as for the mystery man chainsaw, licky sees all those who don't kiss his ace as being "chainsaw" - some horror movie must have scared him silly - i'd love to see this book printed, and i think generally speaking licky will probably do ok with telling the story - he's had plenty of time to research, and has inside info we could never access - but he hasn't taken much time to try and understand the community he seeks info from - we are varied, as any group might be - we weren't all the same then and so we all had unique experiences in 1977, none more relevant than any others - but for a would-be journalist to render judgement on people smacks of an arrogance that is eerily reminiscent of authority figures, so i wonder what is his whole story - why can't he pay a lawyer to sort out the details of the SOLs that he claims will protect his sources? could be a simple as laziness or as sinister as a conspiracy - as with most things, the truth probably lies in between the extremes
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Mar 1, 2012 - 02:13pm PT
Probably because lawyers are like $300 an hour.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 1, 2012 - 02:24pm PT
Stupid Sidmo

You wrote “it is about being informed and that should come first, out front and center if you disagree then you’re probably looking at the issue with a narrow focus – try to broaden it and consider things from all perspectives” in other words, think about it differently just for fun – maybe you’ll change your mind”

So you are not paranoid then why not go for it. Don’t need permission just yourself. Might take a couple of months to hear back.

http://www.Foia.gov

Requesting FBI Records

FBI records can be requested through both the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) and the Privacy Act. Please read this page carefully to ensure you are making the correct request.

Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Request

The Freedom of Information Act allows any person—except fugitives, federal agencies, and foreign intelligence agencies—to request information about organizations, businesses, investigations, historical events, incidents, groups, or deceased persons.

To submit a Freedom of Information Act request, use one of the following options:

Option 1: Submit your request using the Sample FOIA Request Letter. The form includes instructions.

Note: you cannot use the eFOIA Form to submit a Privacy Act Request about yourself or another living person. Please use the U.S. Department of Justice Certification of Identity Form DOJ-361.

Option 2: Mail, fax, or e-mail your submission to:

Federal Bureau of Investigation
Attn: FOI/PA Request
Record/Information Dissemination Section
170 Marcel Drive
Winchester, VA 22602-4843
Fax: (540) 868-4391/4997
E-mail: foiparequest@ic.fbi.gov

Letter and e-mail format:

Provide your complete name and mailing address. Telephone, fax, and e-mail addresses are optional.

Provide any identifying data that will help us locate information—for example, the subject’s complete name, aliases [sidmo, chainsaw or Fred], date and place of birth, social security number, former addresses, or localities.

If you are interested in records pertaining to a particular incident, please describe it in detail.

If your request is for information about another living person, that information is usually not disclosed unless you have obtained the person’s written consent or unless public disclosure is authorized by law. Requests for information about another living person should be accompanied by evidence of the subject's consent. Please use U.S. Department of Justice Certification of Identity Form DOJ-361 and complete the section identified as: Authorization to Release Information to Another Person. You may submit an attachment listing additional information that may aid in locating responsive records. Please place your name and contact information on the attachment.

State how much you are willing to pay for duplication fees if any are assessed. Refer to the U.S. Department of Justice FOIA Reference Guide.

For more information:

Overview of the Freedom of Information Act

Freedom of Information Act Exemptions

Freedom of Information Act/Privacy Act Terms

Privacy Act Request

The Privacy Act allows U.S. citizens and lawfully admitted aliens to request information on themselves or another living person.

If you are requesting information about yourself, you must use one of the following options:

Option 1: Use the U.S. Department of Justice Certification of Identity Form DOJ-361. You may submit an attachment listing additional information that may aid in locating responsive records. Please place your name and contact information on the attachment.

Option 2: Following the instructions in U.S. Department of Justice Certification of Identity Form DOJ-361, submit a letter to the FBI, sign your request, and have it notarized or state, “Under penalty of perjury, I hereby declare that I am the person named above and I understand that any falsification of this statement is punishable under the provisions of Title 18, United States Code (U.S.C.), Section 1001 by a fine of not more than $10,000 or by imprisonment of not more than five years, or both; and that requesting or obtaining any record(s) under false pretenses is punishable under the provisions of Title 5, U. S. C., Section 552a(i)(3) as a misdemeanor and by a fine of not more than $5,000.”

Mail, fax, or e-mail this letter to the following:

Federal Bureau of Investigation
Attn: FOI/PA Request
Record/Information Dissemination Section
170 Marcel Drive
Winchester, VA 22602-4843
Fax: (540) 868-4391/4997

Sample FBI FOIA Request Letter

Instructions

Please provide a detailed description. For example, if requesting records on person of interest, you could write: sidmo, [who went and goes by the real name of person below this form] who participated in recovery of drugs/monies/coke/black book/Thai sticks from a down plane crash in Yosemite National Park in 1978.

If your request is for information concerning a deceased individual, you must provide proof of death. Acceptable forms of proof of death include: obituaries, death certificates, recognized sources that can be documented, written media, Who’s Who in America, an FBI file that indicates a person is deceased, date of birth is 100 years or greater, or Social Security Death Index page.

If you wish to include additional specific information, attach another sheet of paper to this letter.

Options for sending your request: mail to the address listed below, fax to (540) 868-4391/4997, or e-mail to foiparequest@ic.fbi.gov.

Letter

Date: __

FBI

Record/Information Dissemination Section
Attn: FOIPA Request
170 Marcel Drive
Winchester, VA 22602-4843

Dear FOIA Officer: __

This is a request under the Freedom of Information Act.
Date range of request: __

Description of Request: Please search the FBI’s indices to the Central Records System for the information responsive to this request related to: Sidmo, Chainsaw, Fred [who went and goes by the real name of person below this form]. __

I am willing to pay up to [$ ] for the processing of this request.

Please inform me if the estimated fees will exceed this limit before processing my request.

I am seeking information for personal use and not for commercial use.
Thank you for your consideration,

Name: __
Title (optional):
Business (if applicable): _
Street Address:
City/State/ZIP Code:
Country (if applicable): __
Telephone (optional): ___
E-mail (optional):___

By the way maybe they have your name already just go to their web site and hit folder “Find”.

Sure you'll respond by: ‘I don’t care what they think or say about me”

Wait for a couple weeks to go when you send it in and then go outside to listen for the small drones buzzing around make sure you wear a baseball cap.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 1, 2012 - 02:46pm PT
wow i got shanghaied again - you don't get it - why is it incumbent on me (or anyone else) to do all that crap just to benefit licky's curiousity? he should do the legwork once so that everyone else can benefit from it many times over - you seem energetic, perhaps you'd like to serve as licky's unpaid volunteer assistant, i don't care to myself - you fans of licky seem so doggedly determined to take sides and make this a turf battle royal, when i just see it as what it is, a forum for discussion - if i or anyone else chooses to share then cool, if not then that's cool too - but not with you . . . or braun . . . or licky himself for that matter - you guys just keep chugging the koolaid - remember what jim jones was alleged to have said during the massacre: "drink. drink. drink"
WBraun

climber
Mar 1, 2012 - 02:51pm PT
We just do this because it's so much fun stringing a nutcase such as you along.

Has absolutely nothing to do with Licky at all since you lack any coherent comprehension of what's really going on.

Bottom line you're an idiot ..... LOL
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Mar 1, 2012 - 02:58pm PT
sidmo, what the hell are you talking about?

I'd like to think Lickey is doing a lot of "legwork" to get this "book" finished. He's asking all the right questions, people are coming forward. You're take on this is coming from someone who nobody knows. You're name hasn't been mentioned, why are you tripping?

Same reason Chainsaw was tripping, just saying.
WBraun

climber
Mar 1, 2012 - 03:06pm PT
LOL too funny huh .....
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 1, 2012 - 03:08pm PT
So when does the book come out?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 1, 2012 - 03:10pm PT
The 'book' is out. It has Werner @ 5-1 winning by a knockout.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 1, 2012 - 03:14pm PT
Sidmo, reason you won’t post your experiences because you have none to contribute, if you do let’s hear them, funniest part your journalistic credentials; let’s hear more of these. Because there are none.

And just a note and Jim Jones. Look up Donald Freed, Freed and Mark Lane wanted me down to take photo shoot in Aug ‘78, said I was going to the valley next couple of days. Could of made some $$$ on that one.

Start saying don’t give a sh%t instead of “I don’t care” maybe will make you more of an unbelievable Sh%thead.

So start off with what you know of Dorn. National Enquirers want to know.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 1, 2012 - 03:15pm PT
i was thinking about how licky said i must be chainsaw, and it occurred to me that perhaps Wbraun is licky - what better way to initiate interest in a new thread than to be the first to post a reply, albeit under a psuedonym

ask licky's doctor when they will pull the book out of his ace - i'm sure he had an ultrasound by now
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Mar 1, 2012 - 03:17pm PT
Lol.
WBraun

climber
Mar 1, 2012 - 03:52pm PT
sidmo -- "and it occurred to me that perhaps Wbraun is licky

what better way to initiate interest in a new thread than to be the first to post a reply, albeit under a psuedonym"

LOL definitely you're not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Way way too funny .....
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Mar 1, 2012 - 04:21pm PT
I wonder if Sidmo thinks all this is a distraction from the people who were actually involved and he's some how helping them from getting them in trouble...
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 1, 2012 - 04:31pm PT
I think sidmo you are suffering from PSTD syndrome:
Let’s see which one or the few actually many you have:

Symptoms of intrusive memories may include:

Flashbacks, or reliving the traumatic event for minutes or even days at a time: yes, yes for sure.

Upsetting dreams about the traumatic event: I would say yes sounds like you are guilty and need to confess.

Symptoms of avoidance and emotional numbing may include:

Trying to avoid thinking or talking about the traumatic event: no to this one

Feeling emotionally numb: could be but what is that you say “I don’t care”

Avoiding activities you once enjoyed: most likely

Hopelessness about the future: yes on this one as well

Memory problems: for sure on this one so that is yes

Trouble concentrating: I would say yes

Difficulty maintaining close relationships: n/a

Symptoms of anxiety and increased emotional arousal may include:

Irritability or anger: yes

Overwhelming guilt or shame: yes

Self-destructive behavior, such as drinking too much: n/a

Trouble sleeping: n/a

Being easily startled or frightened: I would agree

Hearing or seeing things that aren't there: What you posted about Werner as being Licky now that I won’t even comment.

Sorry I think you should seek help. Consider Scientology teaches that people are immortal beings who have forgotten their true nature. Its method of spiritual rehabilitation is a type of counseling known as auditing, in which practitioners aim to consciously re-experience painful or traumatic events in their past in order to free themselves of their limiting effects. Make sure you have the $$$$$$$ to give them for their
techniques.

Or just keeping taking the drugs you are on.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 1, 2012 - 04:41pm PT
thanx doctor shanghowdy - just as i love getting legal advice from you experts online here, i enjoy mental diagnoses from a legitimate headshrinker like yourself - guess you missed living in the valley since you had all those medical and law school obligations - all that education and yet they couldn't teach you critical thinking, only critical mouthrunning - get your head out from licky's underwear long enough to send me a bill, ok?
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Mar 1, 2012 - 04:43pm PT
You're a troll, being trolled! LOL!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 1, 2012 - 04:46pm PT
I have submitted FOIA requests to the following agencies and have received a ton of useful information:

US Justice Department
FBI
DEA
US Customs
USAF
US Park Service
FAA
NTSB
And two county Sheriff's departments

The real trick is to know how to write the request that nets the right
info since each agency will sanitize the paperwork.

When Warner and I have dinner together its fairly cheap, we always have
the same thing and only order one dish.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 1, 2012 - 04:51pm PT
licky, you're back! welcome home homeboy - when you began this jive you ID'ed yourself as a "social climber" and you have now achieved the loftier status of "mountain climber" - what mountain did you ascend licky? or are the tags just more bull for the jive?
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 1, 2012 - 05:06pm PT
Critical thinking? You are a joke.

http://www2.parc.com/istl/projects/ach/ach.html posted it a few years back to someone that was delusional as well. Download is free. Was at the time written for use but found to be useless but you would have to know why?

Read it but don’t think you would get past the first page clown.
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Mar 1, 2012 - 05:19pm PT
Uh oh, sidmo is paranoid again!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 3, 2012 - 02:32am PT
I've just sent sidmo an offer to meet for a cup of coffee. All he has to do is suggest when and where. I'll be there.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Mar 3, 2012 - 02:52am PT
Never mind the coffee... will any of us live long enough to read the book?
WBraun

climber
Mar 3, 2012 - 11:18am PT
Yeah

Sidmo can be sharp as tack at times. He outed me.

I still live in my moms basement.

But I do climb the stairs out of there from time to time take a sh!t in the toilet upstairs.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 3, 2012 - 01:16pm PT
Mom must really dig that brauney – be sure to leave the fan on
An olive branch coming from licky? Wow, let the white dove soar on the winds of friendship and mutual understanding. All is right in the world now, may peace and love be our signposts as we journey to a happier place
go-B

climber
Habakkuk 3:19 Sozo
Mar 3, 2012 - 01:33pm PT
Ah sh@t!
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 3, 2012 - 11:59pm PT
Hey! Sidmo make sure you shack/pat down Licky to make sure he isn’t using or wearing an Israeli watch on his wrist; Liar, liar pants on fire and make sure you tell him the truth that you cleaned toilets for MCA.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 4, 2012 - 12:17am PT
I cleaned busses, toilets in the rear, but for YTS, not curry – teamster job, good wages and 5pm to 1 am shift – left every day open to climb til evening – I ain’t ashamed of that, dude – were you making up beds for Ma Curry? Oh well, at least you weren’t tray scrounging in the lodge caf . . . or were you?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 4, 2012 - 03:42am PT
So sidmo...I guess the answer is no?
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
bouldering
Mar 4, 2012 - 04:01am PT
I cleaned busses ... for YTS
I remember hearing about that job. Sounded pretty chill.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 5, 2012 - 07:52am PT
again, for the benefit for the haters - i didnt smoke plane weed - geeks did that - i didn't drink gasoline either - i was never that hard up to smoke plane weed, and if you sold it you were spreading misery - licky, i might meet you sometime, but i'm busy right now - the rest of you, stay delusional

BTW: to silver, do you "here" with your "eres"?
Abenda

climber
Mar 5, 2012 - 10:16pm PT
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 6, 2012 - 12:07am PT
First post from this thread was 2005.

It is now 2012.

It took Tolstoy six years to write War And Peace.

Just sayin'..................
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 6, 2012 - 12:14am PT
... yer jess sayin' that should be the title of this thread or the book?
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Mar 6, 2012 - 12:20am PT
It took Tolstoy six years to write War And Peace.

Well, yeah, but that was just some stupid crap about something that happened in Russia or Poland or something. Sh#t like that, man you can churn it out dead drunk and half asleep. But this Airplane Crash In Yosemite book, that's not so simple, right? I mean when you're just making sh#t up about some stupid war in a place no one cares about, you can write anything. But if you've gotta track down serious information about what kind of belt buckle the mechanic who did the maintenance on that plane's starboard engine was wearing... Well that's not so easy. That's real research, not just making sh#t up.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Mar 6, 2012 - 12:22am PT
Maybe Licky should hire a Ghost writer. In a manner of speaking.
WBraun

climber
Mar 6, 2012 - 12:26am PT
Hey that's my line.

"Making sh!t up" That Hiker guy above for perfect example.

This book will make America smart again and Canadian Hikers

There will be no sh!t being made up.

Damn stupid Americans will finally learn.

"Quit making up sh!t"

Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2012 - 01:22am PT
Had I written about everything I'd researched by the end of 2005, I'd have
been dead wrong on pretty much every issue. But then maybe that's where I've
missed it. Maybe there is a huge market out there for just bogus junk.
Like the historical book, "It Happened In Yosemite National Park" by
Ray Jones and Joe Lubow, globe pequot press just last year. They claimed there
were jet engines strapped on the plane and that the climbers at the lake
were run off by two helicopter loads of US Customs agents that parachuted
into the lake. That book is not a novel, its fact. Right?

Makes me wonder how many of you read something and accept it because its in
print or because its posted on the internet. If you aren't willing to do
your own research, at least expect it of those that write.
scooter

climber
fist clamp
Mar 6, 2012 - 02:29am PT
I love that the regular posters here have been talking about this BS for so long and nothing has come from it. HA, HA. I think Licky Get the troll of decade award.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 6, 2012 - 11:34am PT
I hate to say it, but the book will most likely be a disappointment.

Not any time soon apparently.....HA!!
zBrown

Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
Mar 6, 2012 - 12:44pm PT
Wow it's still here. Why not release the book in installments here on this thread like they used to do in magazines in the old days? You know, acknowledgements in March, table of contents in June, Chapter One is December of 20xx?

I don't know how many unique posters there are among the almost 1300 here but this audience is probably the largest the book would ever have.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 6, 2012 - 01:20pm PT
Ghost got me thinking about that old cowboy tune: GHOST WRITERS IN THE SKY

if only those fellas would just quit chasing that devil herd up in heaven . . . oh wait a minute - they were singing about ghost RIDERS, huh? oh well, i guess no supernatural spectres are going to ride into san jose and prop licky up in his chair and help him start writing - i offerred to help edit, but of course then someone else would have access to his super-secret research data - we can't handle the truth, that's why licky is dragging his feet - to protect us from what we already don't know
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 6, 2012 - 03:05pm PT
Might be there is more to the story: Two companies: MCA and you should know what the other one is.

Sidmo if you need to know I will spell it out for you since you are so dense or stupid.

Five years later 1980 “Eight people who have changed the course of the world, a real life "Mission Impossible" team whose gifts exploited the secret empires of rogue spy networks, big oil and organized crime.”

Start off with “The mystery of the Mariposa cover-ups”

The truth we will never know but it is out there. Like Licky is doing.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 6, 2012 - 04:15pm PT
Huh? Maybe I am dense, but somehow I think if I fail to understand your cryptic attempt to “spell it out” for me I just might be in the majority – if anyone else here understands just WTF shanghowdy means then please let us know – let’s see, 1980 is five years later than . . . hmmm, 1975 – so are you dating the plane crash in 1975, or are you just mathematically challenged? Yeah, I must seem stupid to you, which means I don’t run in your moronic circle – as for MCA being involved, if you watched that company’s stewardship of Y.P. & Curry Company you’d know that they were not likely to do anything as well as those smugglers – I mean, they did have a plane load of drugs with apparently another shipment pending - that seems over the heads of any of the brilliant managers I had the displeasure of knowing while I worked and played in yose – conspiracy theories are fun, but if you really think that one existed in the seventies between curry and anyone else then you give them way more credit than they are due – there was no phuckin conspiracy moron, just a pilot error – if that plane never crashed it would been merely another drop in the drug bucket, nothing more – yeah, if it arouses you to call me stupid then go whack off and enjoy yourself
WBraun

climber
Mar 6, 2012 - 04:37pm PT
He wasn't talking about that plane idiot.

He was talking about Mariposa.

See .... you're a knee jerk reactionary sidmo.

You're a certified nutcase.

"Their investigation led them straight to the doorstep of MCA Corporation (Music Corporation of America), parent company to Curry Company, the largest concessionaire in Yosemite National Park.

A major drug network had surfaced in the park, compelling one park ranger, Paul Berkowitz, to go before the House Interior Subcommittee on National Parks and Recreation to testify about drug distribution by Curry Company officials."


"Meanwhile, investigator Raymond Jenkins had followed the drug trail from Yosemite back to the Mariposa airport, where sheriff's deputies were seen regularly loading and unloading packages from planes in the dead of night."
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 6, 2012 - 04:48pm PT
That was just for you stupid.

No clues and nothing to say to the story, you would be wasting Licky's time.

So just mouthing off on this thread proves it.

As for the other company Groovyland comes in the picture.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 6, 2012 - 05:12pm PT
so you're tying the mariposa episode to the plane? lots of drugs came in by air, are all those involved co-conspirators in the plane? and does the fact that NPS and YP&C Co employees were dealing make them all part of the plane story? you're just muddying the waters to puff yourselves up - stop focussing on me and get all your stories into their proper and respective contexts - i found hash and a pipe at the top of hidden fall in tenaya canyon in '72, did it get there as a part of the same conspiracies? how about the tourists who came to the park with a bag of pot from home, are they part of it too? maybe smokey the bear was smoking something too, he must be in on it - and that leads to the bear management crew, did they deal drugs with smokey? and how do yogi and booboo fit in to your version of events?
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 6, 2012 - 06:04pm PT
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 6, 2012 - 06:05pm PT
Ok! One more and I will leave you alone sidmo:

You still don’t get it.

So you had mentioned that you never smoked the jet-fuel pot and you were better than that and only the low life’s took or smoked the jet-fuel which not all was by the way and you had Thai Sticks and hash; Hey! They were around as well but taking a guess while you were working for 386 those toilets gave you the best high.

Am I correct? Only thing that makes sense, I think you are still on it.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 6, 2012 - 06:30pm PT
“i offerred to help edit, “ I can see why Licky would say no, nno noo.
zBrown

Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
Mar 6, 2012 - 06:44pm PT


This is getting kinda interesting:

The point I have been making about the Modesto-Yosemite area is I believe it to be the nexus of a government operation that includes drugs, mind control, cults and high level government officials
(2003)


In creating a portrait of both Park Service culture in general and its law enforcement mannerisms specifically, Mr. Berkowitz reaches back to the 1970s, when incidents such as a Fourth of July riot in Yosemite Valley and the murder of a ranger at Point Reyes National Seashore forced the Park Service to address "glaring deficiencies in its law enforcement program." One outcome of that self-review was creation of what became known as the "Yosemite mafia," a group of law-enforcement rangers in Yosemite that Mr. Berkowitz says became "widely credited with leading the agency and implementing many service-wide reforms and initiatives throughout the latter part of the 20th century."
(2011)


As we used to say F'ing A!

Tracking some of this has led to papers on Echelon (the NSA's system which purportedly captures and analyzes virtually every phone call, email and telex message sent anywhere in the world).

Can you hear me now?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 7, 2012 - 01:37pm PT
yeah shang, licky turned me down, and still hasn't published - i just offerred to help edit, not write or rewrite - i thought i was being nice, if you want to attack me for that then so what? i edit, write and tutor and i still think licky needs help - all you guys who trash me must be having fun with it, but so what? just shows how easily amused you must be - grow up, and let's push licky to the finish line - if he wants to reject an honest attempt to help him than so be it - but he needs a kick in the butt - editors help writers finish their drafts and a tutor can serve as a coach to push them along - if licky has someone fulfilling those roles then perhaps that individual is responsible for the delay - like someone said, war and peace was written in a shorter time than this thread has run - i'm not sure that's true but this has dragged on for some time - as for attacking me, you're forgiven - because, again, i don't care what you think
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 7, 2012 - 03:47pm PT
"editors help writers finish their drafts and a tutor can serve as a coach to push them along” –

Funny seems they should be able to spell “offerred” right or is that write.

Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
Mar 7, 2012 - 04:13pm PT
I just wanted to be post 1300 on this very important and stupid as f*#k thread. Weed heads.... greatest show on earth. I laugh robustly!
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Mar 7, 2012 - 04:50pm PT
Wasn't that (for Dougs memory):
"I puff robustly!"

LOL!
zBrown

Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
Mar 7, 2012 - 08:30pm PT
Prolly better to have been post number 1301, a primo prime number because
it is the only prime (emirp) equal to the sum of all the n-digit Narcissistic numbers (n=3, 153+370+371+407=1301).

But on the topic of numbers:

What would have been the going rate for a pound of weed in Mariposa County in 1977? Maybe $300? The weight of the load was estimated at 2500-4000 pounds. What percentage was extracted from the lake? Maybe 75%?

At $300, 4000lbs, and 75% recovery we're talking about roughly $900,000, correct?




splitter

Trad climber
Hodad surfing the galactic plane
Mar 8, 2012 - 01:55am PT
heard the pooco gold that came outta the lake was fetchin 1K a pound in the bay area. sampled sum and found that to be a reasonable possibility.

edit: yea, the gas soaked bunk was dark. looked like it was soaked in black soot/grease and not quite 100% cleaned/dried. like i mentioned here earlier "it stayed lite up like a bick lighter" for a few seconds after putting a match to it. i took one hit and no more after i saw it burst into flame. wished i hadn't even taken it! totally worthless or worse, imo!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 8, 2012 - 02:36am PT
What I have been told by those that did manage to sell their booty, it was going for around $400/pound. The Feds managed to bring down about 2,000 pounds. There was 6,000 on board, confirmed to me by the loadmaster for that flight. The Feds thought the plane was a smaller one and based on their calculations only carried 4,000 pounds.
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad surfing the galactic plane
Mar 8, 2012 - 02:55am PT
i arrived in the valley from the eastside on the morning the sh#t hit the fan and sat in el cap meadow and watched a dea/fbi chopper unload bale after bale at 50+ pounds each. and just after it took off back in the direction of the lake, another chopper would land and repeat the process. over and over. after an hour or so of watching this i headed to c4 to find out what was up.

the point i am making is, there was one hell of a lotta weed left in the lake. i have no idea how much found its way out of the lake before that cutoff date.

edit: i always thought the claims(and i heard it from several "reliable" sources)for "1K a pound in the bay area" seemed kinda high for the general going market of the day. but what was being referred to as "gold" was by no means general. and the bay area is a long ways from the border(spent my youth in san diego/next to tha border)so that was another variable. but regardless, one ounce bags/four fingers would have to been fetchin a benjamin to make a 60%/$600.00 profit off of your 1K investment. doesn't seem worth the risk(well maybe). and in 1977, there weren't a whole lot of heads around with that kind of money(think about 400.00+ in todays $$) and willing to forfeit it for a bag of weed, from what i recall. but, whadevah...

the goin rate for an oz in the mid seventies was twenty bucks. and the quality varied. if a shipment of really good quality weed hit the streets, the price didn't necessarily go up. the better the weed, the faster it moved...that was a benefit in itself!!

during the early to mid nineteen-seventy time period, just south of the border(let's say ensenada)kilos could be had for anywhere from 15-25 bucks(or less). just north of the border they cud be found for anywhere between 75 on up. i do recall overhearing of someone just north of the border asking for 45 a key for some of the best weed i had ever seen(up till the above mentioned gold)...sitting on a garage full of keys can evidently activate the "faster it moves is a benefit in itself"!

but there is this little checkpoint just north of dago' and whatever manages to get pass there meant prices/profits ^ drastically, so maybe they were fetchin 1K per lb. in SF for the "gold" stuff...jus' sayin!

the other side of the coin: one of my very best friends(tony h)spent the majority of his senior high school year in the mesa prison in tijuana, baja mexico. he was 18. it took 9 months before his parents managed to get him out. his cellmate died in his arms begging tony to help him stuff his severed guts/intestines back into his split open by a shank belly. And another one of my very best friends(gary m)spent his first 2+ post highschool years in a prison upstate after one last run back from ensenada didn't go so well. he was fortunate to get off with that light a sentence, but it cost him every nickle of profit he had made off "the business" over a couple year period and then some.

plus many other s/n of the border horror stories...
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 8, 2012 - 01:19pm PT
How to Climb

Rock and Ice / 166

John Bachar, Rock Climbing Purist

Bachar's Lonely Road to Becoming a Legend

Written by Duane Raleigh

Around that time, Bachar came in and out of money from a wide spectrum of means, some more legal than others. A Lockheed Lodestar brimming with six tons of high-octane marijuana crashed in winter in Lower Merced Lake, high above Yosemite. The wreck, which killed the pilot and co-pilot, was known to the Feds, but they were only able to remove some of the pot before being shut down by extreme winter conditions. Word of the gold mine leaked to Camp 4 and instantly dozens of climbers, including Bachar, punched through knee-deep snow to hack 80-pound bales of weed out of the lake ice. Some climbers reportedly went back two, three, four times to load their packs with the "Airplane Weed" that fetched up to $400 a pound on the streets of L.A. and San Francisco. Reportedly, some 1,500 pounds were liberated by climbers before the Park Service caught wind of it and closed the lake. Bachar's take: A measly eight grand. Why not more? "I felt lucky to get in and out once. Everyone gets busted when they get greedy. And people were nuts out there on the ice. A friend almost hit me by swinging an axe. I said, 'Hey, watch out,' and he snapped around and said, 'Go f--- yourself.' When I got out I was stoked. I got a car and told myself not to push my luck."

*note: more to his history, commercials and climbing in the article but just wanted to add.

Also I think Rolling Stone article could be April 28 1983?

And again price in Aspen just for 5 or 6 oz were really out of hand as I understand.
zBrown

Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
Mar 8, 2012 - 02:00pm PT
@splitter - from my personal knowledge (not Yosemite, just in general) some people got in and out of the business relatively unscathed, others suffered alot (prison deep down in Mexico), others ended up in a pretty sad mental state, a couple dead as a direct result of being in the trade, and others dead from abusing their own products.

@lost - if Licky's sources are correct the article is off a bit in some of the details

@Licky - I think getting down to numbers is useful. Have you thought of commiting yourself to some dates?

Edit: Paul Berkowitz did publish his book in May, 2011. I wouldn't buy it because I don't patronize the police authors, but it could probably be found in a library.

The Case of the Indian Trader: Billy Malone and the National Park Service Investigation at Hubbell Trading Post


Edit: OK I gotta get my mind offa this stuff, but here in his own words is Paul:


but my early experiences in Yosemite National Park in the 1980s had a profound effect on me. That was a rude awakening, to find out that in spite of its public image, there are some genuinely bad and unscrupulous people in the NPS in positions of significant power, undermining the ideals of the agency and abusing and taking advantage of the authority they’ve achieved. In the wake of my efforts to expose illegal bugging, extortion, blackmail, the falsification of reports and destruction of evidence in Yosemite’s law enforcement office, the NPS (aided by certain members of Congress and even the OIG) embarked on such an effective cover-up effort, comprised of outright lies and simultaneous character assassination, that arguably I didn’t have anywhere else to go.
o-man

Social climber
Paia,Maui,HI
Mar 8, 2012 - 03:08pm PT
This thread is so vast that I have only skimmed it.
I thought I would take a moment share some of my personal memories of that period of Valley History.
Buc and I pulled into The Valley that spring and the whole place was buzzing with the news of the plane wreck in the Merced Water shed.
Some of our friends had been to the site and were laying low up on walls with their booty in haul bags waiting for a chance to distribute.
Erickson, Higbee and a host of Colorado's elite(Dave Breashears,Kevin Donald,and Bob Carmichael to name a few)were trying to film the FFA of Half Dome and were playing poker every nite in the Mountain Room Bar.
Chouinard was climbing in The Valley and we shared a ledge or two during that period. Mark Hudon had just finished NA wall and was camped next door. It was raining a lot and I didn't get much climbing done while I was there. I remember the whole valley seemed to be sort of floating on crash bud or maybe it was just me.
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad surfing the galactic plane
Mar 11, 2012 - 10:28pm PT
zBrown & others have raised issues regarding the negative aspects of the airplane pot in relation to possible adverse effects that a portion containing gas residue may have had on users and how that could be an issue with authorities, blah, blah...blah.

It would be rather hypocritical of the US government to pursue such an angle in light of their open and heavy use of the extremely toxic poison known as Paraquat on Mexican marijuana crops throughout the mid to late 1970's. Paraquat is toxic to human beings and animals and research has shown that it is linked to the development of Parkinsons Desease.

"During the late 1970's a controversial program sponsored by the US government sprayed paraquat on marijuana fields in Mexico. Since much of this marijuana was subsequently smoked by American's, the US government's "Paraquat Pot" stirred much debate. Representitives of the program warned that spraying rendered the crop unsafe to smoke." Wiki

I recall this whole period and the controversy with much distain. Ironically it occured before during and long after the tainted "airplane pot" was in circulation.

EDIT: "Are you saying that it is OK in either or both cases?"

I wasn't suggesting anything in that order. Two wrongs don't make a right. Just pointing out how ironic and(if they were attempting to prosecute on those grounds/issue)how hypocritical it is/would have been. You alluded to how the creepy dude(CS)could have possibly been effected by the tainted weed, etc. and wondeed if it was punitive. I am the person who stated that there were no indictments origionally issued and this situation could not be compared to the "Orange Sunshine/Brotherhood of Eternal Love Gang" on that technicality. I sleep well at night, have no worries and as I already mentioned, never made it up to the lake.

The government didn't sell the weed they poisened(who knows). But they did indeed poisen it with full knowledge that a whole generation of American citizens would end up smoking it. They figured they weren't worth anything/were a lost cause anyway I imagine. They poisened 3-4 years worth of crop and advertized that they had done so afer the fact. How evil.

The weed was harvested on the mexican side and made its way here. On the street, it was nondistinguishable and mixed in with weed from Canada, Hawaii and homegrown, etc.! Nobody new what they were getting in most cases. Very few, if any, people stopped smoking pot because of it.

They did it and later advertised it thinking that it would get some people to stop smoking weed alltogether out of fear of getting poisened weed.
F'n idiots. I feel that the intentional poisening of possibly millions of Americans by their very own government is by far the worser evil!!

A false dichotomy.

Again, I don't "take it to seriously" i was just responding to an issue you raised(and upon request, deleted.)

It's a discussion, I contribute...

And BTW, Rick/Lichy did mention earlier that the Feds have taken notice of this thread...I enjoy occasionaly giving them some "food for thought"(in this case, the paraquat issue)!
zBrown

Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
Mar 11, 2012 - 11:43pm PT
^^^
Did people sell the tainted weed in both situations? Are you saying that it is OK in either or both cases?

I got into this thread inadvertently while looking for something else, but it caught my eye because I knew a bunch of drug dealers many years ago.

Some of them did some very brazen and fairly clever stuff. Were they successful in life because of it? Not. Is there a need for more books about this type of thing? Like I said some time ago, it depends what else is in the book.

There is also a layer of foam floating around (the Modesto-Yosemite nexus, the Octopus ...) that could make it more interesting if it were tied in somehow, but I haven't seen that done.

Someone pointed out way back that there were never indictments issued in this case and that the statute has run, so why would the government enter into it at this point in time?

I suppose you could file a suit if the government sprayed your medical marijuana with paraquat (remember paraquat Kelly, DJ in LA?) and you used it to some ill effect, but that's a tangled web.

Finally, don't take any of this too seriously. I don't think anyone else is.








zBrown

Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
Mar 14, 2012 - 02:50pm PT
Should the government have developed a paraquat program? I think not; it should not even regulate marijuana. Pat Robertson, Ron Paul and I agree here.

From what I know about folks in the drug business, then and now, there would be few qualms among many dealers about selling chemically treated weed. Also from what I've read, tainted Yosemite plane crash grass was sold.

The jibe at the psycho was to point up some of the paranoia that lurks out on the internet as e.g. "The Modesto-Yosemite Nexus". However, people do need to take responsibilty for their actions.

The three groups under discussion (Coronado Co., BOEL, Yosemite) are all precisely the same phenomenon, differing only in some of the detailed particulars.

I haven't seen any "good" that emanated from the first two and I doubt that Licky is going to find any here.

On the other hand, in poking around here I've discovered some new things and so it hasn't been a total waste of time.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 16, 2012 - 01:36pm PT
Finally, substance!
Prices mentioned are ballpark accurate – seems like chump change now but a dollar twentynine bought you a six of tall busch at degnan’s deli – biners were a couple bucks – as for tainted/paraquat herb, it was circulating in the less-connected circles of boystown, the ozone etc. –again, anyone with a brain and few bucks had better stash – any friction climbers might recall a little-climbed route Bo and I put up on the right side of the Apron we named Paraquat – 5.10A grade II, with a nifty little belay ledge with a bolt that was actually an egg-shaped hole about the size of the stereo chairs of molded plastic that were in audio stores at the time - we laughed about the name, of course no one really smoked ‘quat weed or plane pot unless they were totally clueless – yes, there was untainted bales, and weed cut from the center was superior, but it was all sub-par skank pot, even the “especial”
But guys were poor, and plane weed was cheap or free – but fire up a flamer doobie and you were branded a geek, not a good label before computers changed the meaning somewhat – call me a snob if you like, but Yosemite was a place that one could live cheaply, but you had to bring something in or work a little someplace – it wasn’t that hip to scrounge around and wait for a plane crash lift you out of the gutter – a little effort and a man could live like a king of sorts in the valley – hell, cans were worth five cents, and an hour in the morning hitting the campgrounds could net someone 20-50 bucks before lunch – money best spent on thai sticks and breakfast in the Ahwahnee DR
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Mar 26, 2012 - 05:21am PT
I thought I would add this story from another thread about the Indian caves to this one.


TMJesse

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA

Mar 25, 2012 - 10:49pm PT

The caves and sheltered boulders behind Curry are many and pretty nice. Take a stroll back behind the (former) Terrace for a look. BITD, one poor unnamed soul stashed a huge wad of airplane cash back there only to find it a week later chewed up and made into a rodents nest!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 26, 2012 - 07:40pm PT
So I had just stepped out my back door when I hear the unmistakeable sweetness
of large radials, at least two of 'em. I look up and here comes papa at about
500'AGL! I sprint through the house and grab my camera and bolt out the
front door in time to grab this.



Since I wasn't positive about it I enlisted Mr Google's help and lo and behold
it is one of the two remaining Howard 500's near and dear to this thread!
He was booking it pretty good -I wonder what he was hauling?

I even found a vid of the exact plane! At the end you can hear the sweetness
of 5000 horsies singing.

[Click to View YouTube Video]


Here's a really quick (28sec) low pass:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
WBraun

climber
Mar 26, 2012 - 07:51pm PT
I bet sidmo was flying it with a load of weed ....
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad surfing the galactic plane
Mar 26, 2012 - 10:34pm PT
Sweet lookin & sounding bird, RIP!!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 26, 2012 - 10:53pm PT
Reilly...Yep, you got it right. The guy that owns this one has one other of the original 19 produced and it flys too. He is working on refurbishing two more in his hanger (seems he is doing quite well these days). The one that you managed to photograph can be found all over the country where he does fly-ins. It really stops the crowd when he flys over at +350mph and 50ft. off the runway. By the way, that's 333mph at around 40% throttle.


Warner, sidmo had written the flight instructions and was giving lessons to the pilot
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Mar 26, 2012 - 10:54pm PT
hey there say, jan... wow, as to that story--kind of (not exactly) reminded me about the ending of the treasure of the sierra madre...


all the gold dust to the winds of nature...

life lives on, as it was made to, naturally, inspite of 'man's so called wealth'
;)


edit: or perhaps better said: 'moves' on, as it was made to...
:)
zBrown

Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
Mar 26, 2012 - 11:22pm PT
Yo! say Licky how's the book coming along? Hope you aren't discouraged by Mike Hynson's experiences.

Mike raffling off signed copies:


Edit:

Photo too big.

I'm thinkin' of starting my book soon, working title
//Million Dollar Bash
The Progeny of America's Greatest Generation Do Battle in the Cultural and Drug Wars
//


Trango

Mountain climber
Livermore, CA
Apr 18, 2012 - 02:07am PT
Thread went back into hibernation, I see.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 18, 2012 - 03:05pm PT
the thread is dead - the book is cooked
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Apr 25, 2012 - 03:24pm PT
Can this thread be revived? I'm sick of the political/bolt wars/lack of trip reports/lameness on the front page.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 25, 2012 - 04:12pm PT
And you think reviving this thread will reduce the lameness?
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Apr 25, 2012 - 04:14pm PT
Yes.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 25, 2012 - 04:16pm PT
no book

No book

No Book

NO Book

NO BOok

NO BOOk

NO BOOK!!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 25, 2012 - 04:17pm PT
Survival, don't be a hater! Unless ya got sumpin to hide? :-)
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 25, 2012 - 04:25pm PT
See? All you've done is wake Survival and Reilly and me up from our naps.

How much lamer can things get?

This is what it reminds me of
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2012 - 11:10pm PT
As much as sidmo would like you all to believe, there is way more to the story than who made it up to the lake and made off with their share of the dope. If that is your sole focus....well you might try to think large instead of Yosemite. Just saying
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Apr 25, 2012 - 11:26pm PT
Yippee, I brought him back from the dead
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Apr 25, 2012 - 11:52pm PT
Yippee, I brought him back from the dead

Yup. But you didn't decrease the lameness of the front page.

This airplane thing is ancient history, and the only way it gets relevant is if Licky actually publishes his book. Which he may do. I have no idea who he is, or what other things occupy his time. Is he a dilettante who thinks pretending to be a writer is a cool thing? Is he a multiply-published and award-winning writer who is about to be short-listed for his second Pulitzer?

Who knows? Reading this thread doesn't provide any answers.
zBrown

Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
Apr 26, 2012 - 12:24am PT
You mean to tell me Yosemite crashed into an airplane in 1977. I'm betting the glacier(s) won.

Where is Herr Braun? Someone's gotta put sidmo into his appropriate place in the natural order of things.

How is the book coming along Ric? I'm volunteering to read the draft and provide comments based upon my experience with drug provacateurs and their lawyers.

You gotta have photos and illustrations:


You gotta have the historical tie-in, like how John Muir and Teddy Roosevelt smoked a J together


Rev it up!





ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
bouldering
Apr 26, 2012 - 12:46am PT
Weird that they happened to crash into a lake. What are the odds?
yosemitemtb

Social climber
Mariposa
Apr 29, 2012 - 12:54am PT
The planet is 70% covered with water, it's weird if they didn't hit a lake.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Apr 29, 2012 - 03:35am PT
they found the co-pilot in lake superior,

no wait....


they never find anybody in lake superior, too cold for microbes,

who wants an ice cold Fresca?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 24, 2012 - 08:13am PT
nearly a month w/o a post . . . as i said, the thread is dead - unless Licky, et. al. found another sandbox to play in - i guess if you cant stand the heat stay out of the sauna - oh wait, am i being cynical again? tell me i'm wrong; maybe licky is revising, editing, refining - the grunt work of the writing process - why do i doubt that? maybe he's holed up with his bosses in DC, working on the indictments - i recently read of a case where the SOL was extended retroactively and people were charged with crimes, but we have licky's assurance that such action is not possible - are you suckers still believing that razor-sharp legal mind that assures us otherwise? c'mon fellow cynics, FLAME ON
mouse from merced

Trad climber
merced, california
May 24, 2012 - 08:56am PT
Well, I'm here to help with this rock-y revival.

Insulting the seventies is like insulting the Bush Administration: useless...

But this ain't about politics.

It is about our reverence for dope mythology.

Remember always there are at least two points of view on anything and we can get on with dope lore.

Jan's story is so typical, it deserves mention.

A guy I knew in Berkeley came into TNF Factory Outlet and left with not one, not two, but three Kelty D-4 backpacks to go fetch some airplane dope.

He reported his success with a bagful two weeks later.

He went to Spain to climb.

I remember there was an article in a Climbing or Mountain about the high jinx of a team from the Valley in France who were living the high life and climbing there with proceeds from the crash.

I visited with friends in the Groveland area one weekend, oh, hell it was Jeff Mathis. Names. Nobody deserves censure. I had no weed and a deal was arranged through one of Jeff's acquaintances. Best I can do, legal eagles be damned.

I got it for ten. An ounce. No rip-off, a good, righteous price. It was not the best Colombian. It got me really high but I needed to keep re-lighting the pipe. Avgas is not tasteless, either. For the weed was dry, but the addition of the fuel had its effects.

Let's just say it's a story in the tradition of the FA of the Dawn Wall and the aftermath with pros and cons and this is what makes good stories anyway.

TR and Muir

vs.

t*r and Penberthy
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 26, 2012 - 06:30pm PT
went out on you? interesting. probably still damp, but luckily, not soaked with chevron supreme - better to relight than to catch your beard on fire - love these good-karma plane stories!
mouse from merced

Trad climber
merced, california
May 26, 2012 - 07:08pm PT
Damp, definitely. Frustrating to one with no Bic. Matches were pretty lame, barely causing ignition. Took away some joy. The price was right.

Bottom line.

zBrown's story is backed up by the author John Seisday, in Thirty Yarns from the Backwoods of California, Spursbeus Press, 1930.

It's nice to have friends in the litterchur biz, isn't it? Hi, Licky.

And the litter biz. Hi, Werner.

As Mr. Seisday's story goes, the fatty Muir is hiding behind his back in the Glacier Point photo? It came, no sh#t, from the stash of Galen Clark, man. He called it Le Contentment? You know the boulder by the stone memorial? It's named for Le Conte? Like, it's a cool name for smoke, isn't it?
An old MiWok woman tended his "grove" and used the stalks for weaving cord? And it was killer! It's time to jam to the store for some Yami yoghurt. Wanna go?



Imagine that was Dave Bircheff telling the story. I did. His sentences tend to end in rising tones like a question and it's one of David's trademark qualities that he can tell a story and has lots.

Not that he or his brothers were in any way involved with drugs. Both meditated daily. I can certainly imagine them both on Glacier Point or some other prominence sharing a twister.

I see it's time to meditate. Medicate, duh.

zBrown

Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
May 26, 2012 - 08:06pm PT
damn mouse, I said before I can't keep up with you (I am afterall 1.5 years older), but your memory and research skill are B. Yond compare.

Anyway, back to sm ... smug ... smugglers. There is no evidence that has been posted on this thread or that I am aware otherwise aware of, that this was not completely legal weed. Had the pilots had the foresight to employee a seaplane (that is to say, one with pontoons), they would be alive today to show us that they actually had prescriptions for this medicinal load they were bringing in, either from or to Los Angeles.

You know comimg in to Los Angeles
Bringing in couple thousand keys

don't touch my bags Mr. customs man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsnUu71Viyo

Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 28, 2012 - 04:15am PT
Medicinal Mj in 1976?

Sea Plane? Have you checked out the size of the lake? It was December...think ice, not water.

Ya see guys, even if you are tossing this stuff around at a campfire, there is going to be some fool like sidmo that will latch on to it and attempt to make it fact.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 28, 2012 - 09:08am PT
zBrown, you a funny man! :-)
A Howard 500 on floats would need Shaver Lk to land safely on, not Merced.
Actually, they were intent on landing on a 'lake' at the Black Rock Desert if I am correct.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2012 - 03:10am PT
Actually, they were intent on landing on a 'lake' at the Black Rock Desert if I am correct.

Let us look at this statement.

“Actually”…..this infers that it is supported by fact and not by conjecture.
“…if I am correct.” Makes one wonder if the “Actually” has any validity.

I know where the plane was “actually” headed, and it is not by guess work. You see, the official route was provided by someone that didn’t want the real route to be known. The Feds took this route and used it as fact and it has been so ever since.

I’ve spoken with the guy that provided the route, he said he made it up.
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
Jun 1, 2012 - 03:23am PT
So how far off are we from actually getting to read the book? Any guestimates as to when you'll finish?

Inquiring minds want to know.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jun 1, 2012 - 08:41am PT
FOOL!
OUCH LICKY, you’re so mean to me - called me a fool, and I care sooooo much what your opinion is, since you’re such a hero to the climbing and ex-climbing community – why everyone knows that you’ve done so much good for us, and all without any personal benefit to yourself – you’re really a saint, and one worthy of your exalted status – being a fool myself, I can only hope to achieve such glory as you – perhaps if I knew what your lifestyle, hobbies, interests, etc. were when you were in your late teens and twenties I could return the favor to you by writing a book about whatever interesting thing it was that you did – then I could start a blog, solicit testimonials from those like yourself who shared that experience, and then arbitrarily decide who was right and who was wrong and if I were fortunate enough to get a response from you I could denounce your learned observations and call you a FOOL

That is, IF you ever did anything remotely interesting, exciting or dangerous – beyond having a relationship with some dead guy’s widow

DID YOU HAVE A LIFE LICKY?
AND IF SO . . . WHAT THE HELL WAS IT THAT YOU DID????????????????????????

it's a lead-pipe cinch that writing was not any part of it


P.S.
all you lickylickers (Brauny, et.al) feel free to pile on with your well-reasoned insults (ex: "God, you're stupid") - i miss your intellectual insights
mouse from merced

Trad climber
merced, california
Jun 1, 2012 - 09:52am PT
"Books are to remind us what asses and fools we are."--Farenheit 420

"In youth and beauty, wisdom is rare."--Stu' pid ol' Guy

"Human beings will be happier--not when they cure cancer or get to Mars or eliminate prejudice or flush Lake Erie but when they find ways to inhabit primitive communities again. That's my utopia."--Vonnegut Junior

"Ain't gonna work on Maggie's Farm no more."--Bob (What the heck)
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 8, 2012 - 01:13am PT
I finally figured it out about sidmo. He wants his fifteen minutes of fame and feels its slipping by. Hang in there little one. Jeebus...I had no idea there'd be guys like sidmo and chainsaw when I started this.
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
bouldering
Jun 8, 2012 - 02:37am PT
Just a hunch, but Licky and sidmo are one and the same. An invention of the former. A straight-man, or first lady to reflect light back to yourself.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jun 8, 2012 - 02:52pm PT
An interesting hunch, biotech – but wrong – although I wouldn’t put it past licky to do such a thing – but if anyone is a created straightman to the comic(al) licky, I think it would be w.braunsweiger – he WAS the first to post on this thread after licky

as for you, buttlicky - IT MUST BE SATISFYING TO BE RIGHT ALL THE TIME LICKY – HOW DO YOU DO IT? DIDN’T THINK THERE WERE GUYS LIKE ME AND ‘SAW OUT THERE HUH? THOUGHT EVERYONE AGREED WITH YOU EH? THOUGHT THAT WHEN YOU BEGAN WRITING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT YOU KNEW NEXT TO NOTHING ABOUT THAT YOU COULD ARBITRARILY SIT IN JUDGEMENT OF PEOPLE WHO WERE ACTUALLY THERE TO WITNESS, HUH? THOUGHT YOU COULD CHERRYPICK DATA TO SUIT YOUR PRECONCIEVED OPINIONS AND NOBODY WOULD NOTICE, DID YA? YOU NEVER GUESSED HOW FULL OF SHYT YOU WERE. YOU’RE NOT WRITING A BOOK YOU’RE SPINNING A YARN. TOLD YA BEFORE, WRITE IT AS FICTION AND DISTORT THINGS ALL YOU WANT, BUT IF YOU WANT TO PLAY JOURNALIST THEN ACCEPT THE SKEPTICISM THAT GOES WITH THE TERRITORY. NO WRITER WORTH THE INK HE WASTED HAS PLEASED EVERYONE, OR EXISTED WITHOUT A CRITIC. THE MERE FACT THAT YOU LET ME AND ‘SAW GET UNDER YOUR SKIN PROVES THAT YOU’RE TOO THIN-SKINNED FOR THIS VENTURE YOU’VE SET OUT ON. ATTACKING US JUST PROVES THAT YOU’VE GOT SOME IDEA ALREADY ABOUT WHAT YOUR “RESEARCH” SHOULD SHOW, AND SO YOU HAVE TO DISMISS DISSENT. YOU’RE A PHONY LICKSTER, A POSER AND A WANNABE, AS IN YOU “WANT TO BE” A WRITER. YOU’RE ALSO A LOSER WHO WANTS TO EXPLOIT THE CLIMBING COMMUNITY FOR YOUR OWN BENEFIT WITHOUT RESPECTING IT EXCEPT WHEN IT SUITS YOUR AGENDA. I’M REMINDED OF THE RUNUP TO THE WAR IN IRAQ, WHEN GEORGE BUSH AND DICK CHENEY SOLD THE U.N.,CONGRESS AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE A BUNCH OF HOOEY ABOUT SADAAM HAVING WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION - (HE DIDN’T, BY THE WAY.) LIKE YOU, THEY SHOUTED DOWN DISSENT AND ATTACKED THOSE WHO DARED TO HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS. SO, YOU’RE IN GOOD COMPANY LICKY. YOU’RE AS BRILLIANT AS PRESIDENTS BUSHNEY AT ANALYZING DATA AND JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS – I THINK YOU'RE IN POSSESSION, OF WEAPONS OF MASS DISTRACTION . . . OR POSSESSED, WHICHEVER - CONGRATULATION, DUDE, YOU’RE AN IDIOT, TOO

PS: I HAD MY FIFTEEN MINUTES OF FAME MORON, MORE LIKE FIFTEEN HOURS ACTUALLY – I’VE RETIRED FROM THE SPOTLIGHT, JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVEN’T FIGURED THAT OUT YET JUST REINFORCES MY THESIS – YOU ARE A BUMBLING FOOL THAT CANT SEE PAST THE END OF YOUR NOSE – AND ONE WHO NEVER CLIMBED THE NOSE OR ANYTHING ELSE – A “SOCIAL CLIMBER” AS YOU CALL YOURSELF – I RECOMMENDED EARLIER THAT YOU LOOK THAT UP. SINCE RESEARCH DOESN’T SEEM TO BE YOUR FORTE, ALLOW MW TO SHARE THIS DEFINITION WITH EVERYONE – FROM THE URBAN DICTIONARY(.COM):
social climber

(n.) Similar to an "attention whore", but a social climber is anyone that becomes friends with someone else if they have something that they want, which we all know involves people. They become 'friends' with people who "know people". In turn, they become (or attempt to become) 'friends' with that first person's more "popular" friends, leaving the first person behind. Repeats this cycle to "get to the top", in their own mind, until they realize they are shallow and unable to like people for who they really are. Inevitably, they will be forced to "mature" beyond this. This usually pertains to girls more so than guys.

I COULDN’T AGREE MORE, AN "ATTENTION WHORE"– LICKY IS A GIRLYMAN, OR AS WE USED TO SAY, A PUSSY




Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jun 8, 2012 - 04:10pm PT
At least Sidmo....
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Jun 8, 2012 - 05:55pm PT
I'd imagine it tasted terrible and just gave you a terrible headache, as well as some nausea.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Jun 8, 2012 - 06:45pm PT
Wings of Steel II - the origins.

For fuk's sake...
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Jun 8, 2012 - 06:49pm PT
If Obama had a son, he'd look like Sidmo.
zBrown

Ice climber
mercenario de merced
Jun 8, 2012 - 06:53pm PT
Rank amateurs all the way round.

If marijuana is medicinal today, it was medicinal in 1976. It was also medicinal in 1954. The Aztecs and Incas used marijuana medicinely even earlier to tone down the peyote buzz when they were carving the hearts out of those young maidens. We don't gotta show you no stinkin' permits, SA.

Obviously, no one around these parts has observed a helio-seaplane in action as I did in the infamous 1954 Machu Picchu Lake non-plane crash.* As I've said before I accept cash or Paypal only.


*No US Navy personnel (and particularly no UDT members) were involved in this operation.




edgerson

Social climber
Newport Beach, CA
Jun 8, 2012 - 06:53pm PT
I'd imagine it tasted terrible and just gave you a terrible headache, as well as some nausea.
That and some Blue Nun and off to the Awahanee for Demitasse.
zBrown

Ice climber
mercenario de merced
Jun 8, 2012 - 07:08pm PT
P.S. Can't we all just get along?

DMT vs LSD
Weed vs Hash
Hash oil vs Hash coding algorithms
The Rhythm of the Saints vs There Goes Rhymin' Simon
The Rhythm Method vs I Shoulda Used a Rubber Instead of Tape
Licky vs The Looming Deadline
Sidmo vs Herr Braun

For the imaginationally impaired:


Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jun 9, 2012 - 05:42pm PT
Good luck on the book - It is an essential part of the history of Yosemite climbing.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jun 9, 2012 - 05:45pm PT
Hey wait - this post is from 2005. Did he ever write the book?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jun 9, 2012 - 06:08pm PT
Edgerson...You Irvinites are so plastic...Go smoke some aviation fuel...RJ
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Jun 9, 2012 - 08:10pm PT
Sidmo,

just a suggestion. try being a lil' more concise and to the point. that is, if you desire an audiance. from what i gather, this(licky's book)is not so much about C4, the dope which was extracted from the lake, etc.! it has a much broader focus. evidently it is about the life of the plane from its early beggining, to its shady latter day undertakings and eventual demise via nose dive into a remote, yet conveniantly located, mountain lake. Licky requested info and people responded. that is what usually happens on this forum. he is in debt to nobody.

Furthermore, why does it matter what he did during his youth? I imagine he focused on acquiring an education. i do recall him saying that he spent some time living and skiing in the mountains. If you are so concerned about the lifestyle of Valley climbers and inhabitants and whatever being given an appropriate portrail, why don't you write a book with a more centrally focused perspective.

i would get very snoopy, in regards to JD and his demise. i would look at it from several angles. might not amount to anything one way or another. but, like i have already said, i walked that trail a number of times afterwards. and, at the time, the spot were JD fell was the only spot on the whole trail where such an 'accident' could have occurred. Extremely coincidental(imo). very inconvient place to trip. the only spot(10-15 wide)which would have resulted in a straight shot down a muddy slope. Like i said, i checked. i would seek specific information in regards to the contentof the 'black book'. i believe that info is out there. money talks. i would definitely stir up some issues that have long been dormant for decades. a lot of my focuswould beon the Pacific NorWest. i would expect to meet resistance.

Licky says he is writing a book with the primary focus being the airplane. my primary focus would lie elsewhere. i gave a few hints as to where. but i am not a writer and don't have that great an interest in spending the next 3-5 years investigating the subject. nor do i have the funds it would take. and it may lead no where. other than a regurgitation of an event that prollie had more negative implications than positive ones.

Personally, I see/saw nothing positive resulting from a plane filled with dope crashing into a mountain lake. that last flight was cursed from the moment it was concieved, imo. and it left a negative imprint upon many of the lives it impacted. lives whose direction in life was forever changed.

There is enough material here to get you rolling. but, like i suggested, keep it concise and to the point.

EDIT: "a lot of my focus would beonthe PacNorWest!"!!...
zBrown

Ice climber
mercenario de merced
Jun 9, 2012 - 08:34pm PT
I’ve spoken with the guy that provided the route, he said he made it up.

Well, pick a card, any card. I picked this one.

Great investigative journalism ric. Did you verify this in some way? If he made up a story for someone else, how do you know he didn't make up one for you?

I'm beginning to think there will never be a book. I'm also beginning to think I wouldn't read it if there was (and I'm one of your staunchest supporters).

We gotta get out this place, if it's the last thing we ever do.

Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 9, 2012 - 09:49pm PT
Dayuum Splitter...very well put.

zBrown...don't forget one thing. I'm the one doing the research. I have yet to hear from anyone that they too are spending time and money researching this event.

I'm not posting everything I have learned here on the Taco as that would compromise the book. As I've said many times on this thread, there is more to this story than those that made their way up to the lake and made off with their share of the booty. For some, that is all there is to the story, or better yet...to their story.
corniss chopper

climber
breaking the speed of gravity
Jun 9, 2012 - 10:13pm PT
Has anyone thought to apply the obvious scientific method to this mysterious
incident?

The government sets up cameras and crashes planes on purpose to measure
various things all the time. No big deal.

Someone could buy a Lodestar, go south and get a cargo
and come back up and crash it into Upper Merced Lake again
-of course parachute out at the last second-
but this time there would be 100's of spectators taking video to catch the crash from every possible perspective.
Mystery solved.
Ok just kidding. Really.


zBrown

Ice climber
mercenario de merced
Jun 9, 2012 - 10:33pm PT
zBrown...don't forget one thing. I'm the one doing the research. I have yet to hear from anyone that they too are spending time and money researching this event.

Yeah ric, but you're the one writing the book. You asked for help on the ST and I understand you got some. I've offered mostly tongue in cheek advice and maybe a couple of serious ones. Your conflicts with some folks on the ST are not very interesting, though sometimes someone throws out some funny lines.

My guess is that you would make better progress if you had some deadlines, either self-imposed or otherwise.

WBraun

climber
Jun 9, 2012 - 11:43pm PT
Why does everyone have the need to tell Licky what to do?

It's his project.

Even if he never gets it done (hypothetically) it's still his project.

Leave the guy alone and he'll probably get it done sooner or later or never.

None of your business, especially the nutcase sidmo.

Stupid Americans need to get into everyone Else's business.

Just look at the world today and see.

Stupid Americans everywhere fighting all over the world getting in everyone Else's buisness and doing jack sh!t at home .....
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jun 10, 2012 - 03:52am PT
many good points there in those recent posts (even you licky!), some remarkably insightful - BUT . . . Brauney really IS licky, huh? how could someone initiating such a thread so many years ago find such a willing sycophant so quickly as the FIRST POST? and one that has lasted to this point and likely to the end as an unapologetic cheerleader for someone we assume he has no personal relationship with? as seth and amy said tonight on re-run:

REALLY???!!!!


REALLY???!!!!


Mr. W. Braun, sir - are you ... err, do you know

LICKY?
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Jun 10, 2012 - 04:56am PT
Damn SkidMark didn't Mommy give you any attention when you were a baby? Clueless. I've met Rick and unlike you he's a standup Guy who's done his research and is taking his time to get it right. He even uses his own name, not like some of the nameless trolls that call this thread home.
zBrown

Ice climber
mercenario de merced
Jun 10, 2012 - 12:15pm PT
Hey ric:

I'm a very big procrastinator. Under prodding I've finished things that I might not have otherwise. You know whether you are one or not. If you're not, then keep plugging away. If you are, then keep plugging away and you can thank me later.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jun 10, 2012 - 12:49pm PT
Weird how serious marijuana is, even talking about this feels like I'm part of a conspiracy. Luckily, I was not involved. Meanwhile, this forum is about climbing up the sides of cliffs, deaths on Mount Everest, unroped solos, R-rated 5.12s, and so on. And the occasional sandbag. A lot more serious than some dudes selling weed. No doubt its a very serious story but can't compare to falling thousands of feet to your death.
zBrown

Ice climber
mercenario de merced
Jun 10, 2012 - 01:31pm PT
I am a smart American.

Evidence?

zBrown

Ice climber
mercenario de merced
Jun 10, 2012 - 04:24pm PT

[Click to View YouTube Video]
hamie

Social climber
Thekoots
Jun 10, 2012 - 11:01pm PT
First post May 21, 2005.
That's over 7 yawns ago.
Ooops, I meant years!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 12, 2012 - 01:52am PT
Another of those at the lake found what appeared to be the wallet of someone that had been on board the aircraft. Not feeling comfortable about just leaving it to lay, when he made his way back to the Valley, he placed an anonymous phone call to Chief Law Enforcement Ranger, Lee Shackleton. He explained what he had found and wanted to turn it in, but was afraid of being arrested for being up at the lake. Shackleton and the caller agreed that the wallet could be left at a phone booth of the caller’s choice to be retrieved by Ranger Shackleton. Shackleton (told to the author) said that this was the one time in his +30 years of law enforcement that he let someone go so he could get a piece of evidence that was greater than the guy that was turning it in.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jun 12, 2012 - 06:32am PT
That dude turning in the wallet was playing with his life. Saw a base jumper die in the valley once, made the mistake of telling the rangers so they could do a body recovery. They put me in a small room and gave me a cup of coffee before questioning me. I'll send an anonymous note next time I think they need my help.

Licky did you ever get police or DEA reports about this incident? Should be available through the Freedom of Information Act.
Tobia

Social climber
Denial
Jun 12, 2012 - 07:25am PT
Will this thread please die? It keeps the music off the front page.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 12, 2012 - 10:00pm PT
Yes Don...got doc from: USPS, DEA, Justice, US Customs, FAA, and NTSB not to mention the county Sheriff and Coroners. I have surveillance notes dating back to the early 70s, almost six years before the crash.

Funny thing was the DEA. They would not release any info until I could confirm that the two pilots were not DEA agents. How do you confirm that they weren't? That was an interesting dance.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jun 13, 2012 - 12:01am PT
@Tobia NO!

Hey ric:

Are you workin' this thread or workin' on the book?


@Tobia - Chapter Two

If you can't Licky 'em, join 'em.

[Click to View YouTube Video]





Captain...or Skully

climber
Jun 13, 2012 - 01:26am PT
Tobia, You are hilarious & awesome.
Thank you.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jun 20, 2012 - 01:51pm PT
You cannot keep a good plan down or up.

NAVY RECOVERS 19,000 POUNDS OF DUMPED POT


SAN DIEGO — An aircraft carrier group recovered an estimated 19,000 pounds of marijuana that had been dumped into the Pacific Ocean over the weekend by three boats off the California coast, the Navy said Tuesday.

Nobody was apprehended, and the three boats sped off after dropping their load, said Lt. Aaron Kakiel, spokesman with Naval Air Forces Pacific.

Crews from the aircraft carrier Nimitz, guided-missile cruiser Princeton, Helicopter Sea Combat Squadron 6, Helicopter Maritime Squadron 75 and the Mexican Navy picked up 186 bales of marijuana that apparently were en route to the United States.

The Nimitz Strike Group is operating in the Pacific Ocean off the Southern California coast conducting carrier qualification operations.

“The coordinated response of all hands involved was phenomenal,” Nimitz Strike Group Commander Rear Adm. Pete Gumataotao said in a statement. “The combined efforts of each of our strike group components demonstrated the flexibility and capability that defines how we conduct business.”

Shortly before 2 p.m. Saturday, starboard lookouts on the Nimitz spotted two boats about four nautical miles away. When helicopter crews flew in for a closer look, they saw two 25-foot single-engine boats, which began dumping 80 black plastic bags, each filled with about 100 pounds of marijuana, the Navy said.

A little more than three hours later, an officer of the deck on the Nimitz spotted a third boat, which also dumped its load into the ocean. The bales were eventually transferred to the Coast Guard and brought to shore.

“This crew’s response was amazing,” Nimitz Commanding Officer Capt. Jeff Ruth said in a statement. “To operationally shift gears quickly and safely from carrier qualifications to a real-world response shows what true professionals work here.”

michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Jun 20, 2012 - 01:54pm PT
That sucks. Since the shipment didn't make it, them and their family's will be killed because they couldn't deliver.

Oh well.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jun 20, 2012 - 02:39pm PT
... picked up 186 bales of marijuana that apparently were en route to the United States.


... they saw two 25-foot single-engine boats, which began dumping 80 black plastic bags, each filled with about 100 pounds of marijuana, the Navy said.


Uh ... sorry I meant 80 not 186. Must have counted wrong the first time.

In any event, 186 is an odd number. I say there are 14 bales out there still floating around. Will wash up somewhere, eventually.
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Jun 20, 2012 - 02:40pm PT
zBrown- "19,000 pounds of maryjane dumped in P.O.!!

Doods, keep eyes peeled between sets for the next week or two. could = a payload of bong loads.

Use to hear of such happenings from surf buddies, bitd and recall one time at dusk as i approached the path up the cliff in front of Abs at Sunset Cliffs and a plus tide/high tide was starting to crash against the cliif this new cabin crewser of about 25-28 ft. long was getting sucked in and out with the shorebreak. It was obvious that it was going to strike the cliff and be busted to smitherins whithin a few minutes as the tide was rapidly rising. Everyone was just running around it and climbing up the cliff. I stopped and looked at it for a couple minutes or less. I was mainly focusing on the two big Mercury outboards. I think they were 200's or 250's. I figured someone was driving back towards OB and got to much inside cuz it was a big swell, way overhead. There is a channel right there between Abs(Abalones) & Subs(Submarines). I new it was going to be dashed to smitherines within about 10-15min.! I decided to just split.

I could have easily got someone to help me push it out and gone out aways and dropped anchor and came back, or tried to start it or whatever. It was abandoned so I could have laid claim to it. Those engines were prollie worth about $15,000/$25,000.00 each at least. It was a brand new boat and brand new engines.

Turns out that the next day there were bales all over the place. Evidently they jetisoned a bunch as they were coming towards shore, and a bunch more were stashed in the boat. I didn't surf the next day so lost out. But several of my friends did score.

I use to surf the Cliffs whenever they broke. That was happening every so often up and down the San Diego shoreline including the Cliffs. Still is. They panic like that fairly often. I could have had a new boat with twin Mercury outboards at least. Still kicking myself in the ass. Obviously it stil had gas in it. An i imagine they may have left the keys init since they were not going to need them. I would have jumped in and went for it. Criminal that i am. And I had my surf board and wetsuit if I got into troubleor ran out of gas offshore headed back to the Jetties/channel!

So is life. Actually it prollie would havechanged my destiny for life and I would now be a wanted man with a price on my head and fifteen bastard children and when I was eventually gunned down my obit would be posted here on ST and everyone would say bad things about me and say all those bastard kids of his are way better off without him and one less Dirtbag in the world, etc(like the Rodney King thread)!! lol

Just sayin...
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jun 20, 2012 - 02:44pm PT
A new boat AND ... a lot of splainin' to do.
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Jun 20, 2012 - 02:54pm PT
DP, I have ran this through my noggin prollie a hundred times over the years. I would have taken it to mission bay via the channel/jetties. There are plenty of floating type anchors that people tye/anchor to just off shore. Simple to swim or paddle my board in. If coast guard stopped me I would just tell them the truth. I saw the boat and salvaged it. I didn't know what cargo it had!! I didn't suspect that there was dope on board, just thought that they got in over their heads and bailed. If i new there was dope, i would have been all over it/on top of it in seconds. Prollie would have left the boat right there, except those two outbords would have been a grand prize on Let's Make A Deal back then. It was stupid of me to just leave it there, regardless. I new the ocean and was comfortable in all conditions/surf. No big deal.

It would have been like winning the lottery and then some! Evidently primo weed also!

edit: cept, i am no longer a bad boy(lol)and i am glad i didn't decide to snatch it. cuz, like i explained above, sh#t happens and most likely would have went south for me...so, ya yer right, prollie would have had a lot of explaining to do!

it is just one of the events i occasionally(or at least use to)look back on when I was broke and wished i had taken advantage of or would happen again or...Wudevah!!

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 20, 2012 - 03:09pm PT
There is so much traffic coming up the coast now, human and pot that there is a lot more scrutiny. Oside harbor is home to a new OPD triple outboard RIB, it must have been bought with a Federal grant, must have cost 250k. I have never seen it out but Customs is up here with their offshore racer on a regular basis. I hear the smugglers are going way the hell offshore now.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jun 20, 2012 - 03:15pm PT
You would have been BUSTED and intense pressure put on you to plead guilty to a lesser charge, even if you didn't do it. Also, I bet they would have confiscated the boat as evidence. Good luck getting it back after that. So there you are, with your cup of coffee and a dime for the phone call, insisting its your boat but you don't know anything about the dope. I belive you, but do you think a jury would, after hearing half a dozen witnesses say you're the man? Way to scary for me. I like your other plan better, just be happy with one bale and hide it under your board. Surfs up people!
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Jun 20, 2012 - 04:17pm PT
"I like your other plan and just hide it under your board."

Actually they drug them on a tow line and if things went south so did the dope. simply let go of the line. And they used big paddleboards, not surfboards or typical typical longboards. plus, in case your wondering, i didn't personally smyggle anything. had friends that were dumb enough or desperate enough or hardcore enough to do it. They mainly went right across the international border. i had/have prollie gone across that very border a few hundred times by the time i was in high school. early on with my father who played the ponies and dogs at caliente. or when i went down to get my teeth fixed becaus i was a poor ass kid. and it ws about a quarte of the price and if you new what dentist to go to the were a lot better than the average dentist north of the border. And i started surfing , etc. down there on a weekly basis in high school.

The point being, you notice things. like they always switch guards at the exact same time everyday. For instance three 8 hour shifts. Let's say at
8:00am, 4:00pm, 12:00midnight. They were not about to pull someone over at 15minutes before their shift ended because whoever started the frisk/check would have to complete it and do the paperwork on it. So what does that tell ya? A very good friend of mine, Gary MacA-----, went through there like clockwork for a very long time. One time a guard stuck his hand in and put it on his chest to check his heart and made eye contact with him. He said his heart was pouding like a jackhammer. The guy just waved him through. But his luck ran out and he ended up doing a couple years in a low max facility in Arizona or Neveda(federal rap). He was in the same place as Joan Baez husband Richard Harris(i think that was his name)was cell mates with him. Plus it cost him every nickel he ever mde from it and more. He did turn his life around, went to college and graduatedwhen he got out. Prollie best thing that ever happened to him. I alredy mentioned Tony H. a good friend from High School. Got busted on the TJ side and spent nine months in the Mesa Prison in TJ. Hideous place. His cell mate got his guts ripped open by a shank and crwled back into the cell begging Tony to help him put his intestins back in his stomach. Died in Tony's arms. He wasn't much older than Tony.

Tony was busted with another kid i went to highschool with during our senior year in high school. The othe kids parents pid the initial $400.00 that the TJ police were requesting from each for bail. Tony's parents didn't want to pay that much and hoped to get a cheaper deal the next day plus wanted to teach Tony a lesson by leaving him in another day or two. When the got back a day or two later he was already shipped to the prison. Within the first couple months they had lost over $25,000.00 via phony Mexican lawyers. Like i said, he did a total of 9 months in that hell hole. He said there are people who live in there, pay to live in there so they can deal drugs. Totally corrupt. You can buy anything you want in there if you have the money. Everyone who could afford it had better buy/pay for protection, especially pretty young white boys. Tony was a different person when he came out of there.

So, there was absolutly no way I would hve ever ran dope. very stupid thing to do if you value your freedom and for that matter, life. Tonys dead cellmate was an American kid!

I wouldhave kicked the sh#t out of any friend I had who even thought aboutgoing acros the border with ny kindof contraband. I did buy keys in Ensenada many times and smoked and gave away the dope befor we returned. The San Miguel parking lot was an open market, as was downtown TJ, where you were approached all the time with people selling everything from bennies to weed to black tar h. I was just a pothead and i didn't even touch/buy that in TJ. You could not trust anyone there.

I remember two of my good surf bodies from highschool who were living next door to me while i was in college come baack from San Miguel in one of thems VW bug(four of them)with surfboards on top. As usual they scored some weed while they were there(it was so cheap for the best dope/$15.00-$25.00 a key). Evidently it was really good so they decided to take one lid/4 fingers/1oz back across the border by putting it in this square hole in one of the axles. What dumb shits. I could not believe it. I made a solid decision to never go surfing with them again across the border at that very moment. Total fools who could not be trusted. And they were UCSD honor students(two where).

Anyway they get pulled outof line and escourted to the check station. One guy frisks them and guards them while another annouces that he is going to get a drug dog. They all about sh#t their pants right then. Long story dshort, the dog runs around the car about 5-6 times stopping to sniff everything., but doesn't detect the bag of weed. Talk about lucky.

I never smuggled a damn thing. Fools business in my opinion. Plus i was to big a chiken sh#t to even think about it let alone do it. Especially back then. But I new and ran into many who had or did over the years.

And you could get weed very cheapon the US side of the border if you so desired. I think some of those people did it mainly for the adrenaline rush or something. Because it just didn't make sensetome. interesting to here about.

EDIT: i was referring to the lurkers that are evidently monitoring this thread , not you. sorry about that!!
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jun 20, 2012 - 04:36pm PT
Me? Not hardly. My name is Paul Wolf, 202-431-6986. I live in Colombia half the year working on a lawsuit against the Chiquita banana company. Al Jazeera covered it, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONCTOiKT42U. Also google my name and "Press TV" and you'll see all kinds of other stuff I get involved in.

Living in Colombia and being fairly well known there becuase of the Chiquita case, I've been contacted by a number of serious drug traffickers. I gave a "know your rights" type seminar in the "patio" for extradictable drug traffickers, in Combita prison a few years back. Their cases are sort of interesting, but after dealing with a couple of them, I realize this is not the kind of person I want for a boss. These cases involved many millions of dollars and tons of cocaine each. They don't screw around with people sneaking over the border, they do it in one big shipment with millions spent in bribes to clear the path.

So don't worry splitter, you're secret's safe with me!
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Jun 20, 2012 - 05:28pm PT
"Don't worry splitter, your secret's safe with me."

Secret??

LOL.

Kinda public domain once you post it fer more than 15 seconds on the WWW, eh!

I have no secrets. And, like i said, cud give a flyin fluke who reads any of my drivel!!
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jun 20, 2012 - 05:53pm PT
BUSTED!
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Jun 20, 2012 - 05:55pm PT
Guess what again?

Jeff, I have known who you are for the past 4-5 years i have been posting here under one logo(or whatever you call it)or another. CMac knows all of them(3). And lurking before that. Plus, I am one of your few(sorry to say)supporters(prollie won't win any popularity contest for saying so). I consider myself a Christian Zionist. Prollie get zapped off of hear and have to come up with another moniker, lol. And me referring to a couple of people as anti-semitist that were giving you a bigoted type of a hard time a while back prollie had a lot to do with me getting booted off for as couple weeks. Plus, my salty and seemingly pro marijauna stance was in regardsto the way i may have thought about things a long time ago. certainly not now. Drugs are a big reason this country is going down the drain. If i couldngonback, i would never bought weed nor associated with anyone who did or used it. Live and learn, eh? And perhaps I am actually a DEA or FBI agent that has simply done his homework regarding this site?? better watch what you say d00ds!! just sayin...

edite: "BUSTED" for what?

And, liken i just implied, you have been flashing that diploma at least once a week for the past coupkle of years. And, you use to go by 'Jody's Evil Twin' a couple years ago! What happened, have a falling out with Jody?

So, i would say that you the one who be BUSTED!!

Thank you, Don Paul...I will drop all charges also!!
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jun 20, 2012 - 05:59pm PT
NOT GUILTY. CASE DISMISSED.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jun 20, 2012 - 06:02pm PT
I wonder how it was determined that the sacramental herb was on it's way to the U.S. Maybe it was on its way to Canada or perhaps Thailand to be converted into hash oil.

Anyway,

I think the best plan going forward is for one of you out there with a medical marijuana permit (fattrad?), to petition the Navy for the return of your and your 19,000 member family's prescription medicine.

Finally, to keep this (sort of) thread relevant. I guess that modern day Southern Caifornia enthusiasts are not as quick as 1977 Yosemite Valley denizens, because I did not hear one report of any out there in the water doing retrieval work.

Ric, I can be your man on the scene and maybe we can pull off a co-authored tome on this new episode.
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Jun 20, 2012 - 06:04pm PT
zBrown,

Now there's a plan that takes a twisted mind to hatch...Kudos!! lol

edit: I am a supporter of the DEA/FBI/ICE in most cases. We would be in terrble mess without them. I am not a supporter of them thinking/wasting time monoriting all the drivel that has gone on here at the salaries they are paid. They really need to get serious in regards to the cartels on both sides of the border. US Army/National guard needs to get involved. And they need to go back to the street gang drug survelience, etc that was goingon before 9/11, the majority of that came to a hault then It is whatis cripling our country and gettingpeoples heads cutoff south of the borderin my opinion. all the dopers and drug addicts an dealers on this side of the border where all of it is going that comes from the cartels. what a mess. we need more good dea, fbi people imo! I just hate to see them wasting preciousn time, money and resources monitering goofballs drivel like yours truly(me)!! or that is what i recall Licky saying a few yers go. I do have my suspicionsin regards to Jacks untimely death. To do an el cap route with him was the reason i traveled back over to yosemite from mammoth a day or two after his death. the news of his demise is what greeted me upon my return! i checked that trail very closely upon my return, i became very suspicous in regards to what i found out and therefor havemy suspicions. i covered a lot of that earlier here on this thread over the past couplen of years!!
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Jun 20, 2012 - 06:50pm PT
This thread went from awesome to paranoia.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jun 20, 2012 - 06:54pm PT
I wonder how it was determined that the sacramental herb was on it's way to the U.S. Maybe it was on its way to Canada or perhaps Thailand

VERY perceptive, you have identified the main defense. If drugs are confiscated in international waters, why would it be a crime against the United States? Maybe they violated Canadian law instead. Very clever but you can never be clever enough.

They use an expert witness to say that the boat was captured on a known drug trafficking route. I saw an expert with a map one time showing how the drugs typically go from one point to the next as they make their way north. Although his testimony was not related to the actual case, it was good enough. Just put another cop on the stand, as an expert, to say that in his opinion, the drugs were coming to the US.

GUILTY.
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Jun 20, 2012 - 09:13pm PT
I think there may be a big misperception in regards to the widespread drug usage amongst clmbers during the seventies. I for one quit smoking pot before I even started climbing in 1971, and i never did any other types of drugs. I started climbing early that Spring and lived in Idylwild during the summer of '72-'73 and no one i new up there smoked anything.Perhaps people got it out of their system in college or never did do it. I never asked them. And I moved to the Valley and the eastside. My immediate group of friends and off and on again roomates were such people as(you can prollie figure out who some of them are from their initials).

Such peeeps as VC, BH, RW, KL, JS, RL, WR, GM, DH, PC, BT, and several others in our close nit circle of friends, many well known Valley climbers and some first ascencionist of El Cap routes Valley and TM free routes bitd, etc.! Non of these people did any kind of drugs, didn't even smoke pot. The subject wasn't even ever brought up. If we had a birthday party for someone or get together there wouold be a few beers, but I never once saw any of these guys drunk. We were high on living in the mountains and our mutual friendships. The only dood i did occasionally smoke pot during my later years at Mammoth was Millis. But even with Millis I could prollie count the number of times on one or both hands. We were always having a great time without it. C4 and some of the regulars there may have had a different story, I don't know. But we were not so inclined.

I didn't even start smoking pot until the summer I graduated from High School. The Tony H dood i told you about was one of my best friends in 10th grade. He quit surfing and strted hanging with a diferent crowd. We remained friends, and i was shocked to here he had been busted in TJ with a keylo of pot. In college when I was going to Ensenada a lot I did smoke weed regularly. But not in Highschol. It did not become the popular thing to do in SoCal until that summer of '68! The dood that got busted running keys across the border(Gary McA___)I didn't even know until he got out of jail and we became friends and climbing partners(around '72)and he related his drug running experiences. I bought a total of two or three keys which i had split with friends during my college yeaars prior to '71. 2.2 lbs each. Didn't make any money off them, maybe got our money back. We did, like I said, by them in San Miguel or someone else there had and gave some to us. Thatis what people did there, shared it for free because it was so cheap and you couldn't return with it anyway!

I was bummed i didn't make it up to the lake/plane becauseI was dirt broke and wanted to stay for thewhole Spring the Valley. Glad I didn't go up there because I believe it had a certain stigma attached to it. I didn't need anymore issues besides strugglingwith makinga living, etc! And. once again, even with people I just raninto and climbed once or twice in the Valley pot, etc. never came up. I abhored LSD, pychedelics because i saw the damage they could do...on a random basis, so why take the risk is the way I felt about it.

I did eat half a pan(split a whole pan)of marijauna brownies that had about 40 magic mushrooms(not sure if that is allot/never had any before or since)that a roommate talked me into splitting with him on his birthday one winter morning. He wasn't a climber. Took it at around 7:30am before work, had to promptly leave work around 8:30am and was so wired I just did top to bottoms at Mammoth all day. Had a great time, but new it was a dumb thing to get sucked into and I almost lost my job. And I had a little better idea wht people meant when they used the term "fried" after that. lol

Yeah, this thread is going downhill, just thought i would clear a few things up and add another straw to the camels back...Lata!!
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jun 20, 2012 - 09:43pm PT
VERY perceptive, you have identified the main defense. If drugs are confiscated in international waters, why would it be a crime against the United States? Maybe they violated Canadian law instead. Very clever but you can never be clever enough.

Well it's all comes down to how clever the guy arguing your case is. Then, factor that by how stupid the judge is. It's a crap shoot.

I would advise not rolling them bones.



splitter

Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Jun 20, 2012 - 09:44pm PT
Jeff,

I have always had a very high opinion of you(and whether you did or didn't arrest anyone for weed wouldn't have changed my opinion one iota)and I am very appreciative of the fact that you put your life on the line on a daily basis to serve and uphold the law of the land and protect the citizens of our great country. And you stand up for your beliefs and the country of your people(Israel)those are very admirable traits. And if I am correct, you must have a huge, caring and loving heart to have adopted a young child from a far away country(China i believe)and I am sure many others feel the very same way about you but just, like myself, have never taken the time to tell you so!! And by all accounts, your are a great guy in person. Hopefully we will get to meet each other some day!!

Sincerely,

John/Splitter!!

edit: I was just pulling your leg in regards to Jody, I figured that you had a good reason! ;)
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jun 20, 2012 - 09:53pm PT
^I said somewhere (don't ask where, but it was on ST) that FAT deep-down is a good guy, just a little myopic from watching too many Po-lice training films. I wouldn't waste time teasing him otherwise.

I am the Anti-Law, just ask St. Augustine.


splitter

Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Jun 20, 2012 - 09:58pm PT
zBrown, You one cool and on top of it(life/music/the world)Dood!! And proud father(that is a blessing)!!

edit: Me, I am just happy & content to have a longtime standing/status as a renowned 'dirtbag'!! ;)
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jun 20, 2012 - 10:36pm PT
There is an additional problem, I'm afraid. The legend of the plane crash has a great mystique to it, but unfortunately does not seem to have involved any famous climbers or affected valley climbing in any significant way. Would have been a great addition to the stonemaster legend if the whole plan was financed by ganja, but that is not really what happened.
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Jun 20, 2012 - 11:23pm PT
"So splitter...would you say you were hip or a square?"

I was very familiar with how those terms were defined by my generation. Somebody hip would have prollie had long hair(didn't necesariklky make them 'hip' but it gave the perception of hipness. I would have been percieved to be a hippy cuz my last haircut was around march or April of 1968 prololie wouldn't have gotten one(haircut) sooner except long hair still wasn't allowed in highschool then. And didn't get it cut until about nearly four years later. It went down to about three quarters of my back in a poneytail. And when I did cut it was to about shoulder length. Long hair in society is not that frowned upon now. But in 1968 it was anathma. Or at least by the majority of people over 30. And it was very dificult to get work for a couple of years unless it was janitor work(which i did during college).

I considered myself a surfer. Most surfers had long hair back then and were very committed to having all day available every day to surf cuz you never new when an awesome swell would come and you didn't want to miss it. So, once again, you sacrificed certain things like a good paying job and a girlfriend(cuz surfer still had a bad name and were considered going nowhere slackers, etc!

I marched in civil rights marches as a youth cuz i believed in equality and had a diversified/mixed group friends. And I marched in many peace marches, sit ins etc. from the get go. I supported the individual military person though. It really repelled me to here of people spitting on returning veterans. I held them/looked at them as being people who were willing to die for our country. I was conflicted about the war. Prollie four million southeast asians were slaughtered by the communist once we withdrew. But I did not want to see one more American youth(including myself die or maimed in a war that had been going nowhere for going on ten years so I demonstrated for the peace movement. Especially/more whole heartedly after Kent State. If I would have been drafted, I would have went in, I would not have dodged the draft by going to Canada even though I could of since all my family was born and from there(I was born in Seattle and I went to my first years of elementary school there(Canada). And all my relatives lived there and I could have went and lived with them. I just felt it was a cop out. I was living here in the USA, and felt that I should do what all other youth were doing in that situation if they were drafted. Certainly would have done everything legal to avoid it though.

I was a, and am, a man of honor. If I befriend somebody I would never rat on them. That is just low. I would rather go to jail for a few years or whatever. And would hope that i had good enough friends that would do the same. I would also defend them in just about any circumstance, whether they were right or wrong, particularly defend their life. Hash out the particulars later, maybe tell them goodbye I have stuck up for you the last time, but I would give them that warning. Not just let them down on the first instance of them falling short for some reason or other. Maybe insist that they get some kind of help or whatever. In other words, I wouldn't consider myself the type of person that is just a fair weather friend.

I, like 'zBrown' like all kinds of music and went to about every concert that came to town or many of the big acts up north(LA).

I liked smoking pot like i said, but quit for the most part because it started becoming essential to having a good time/getting really stoked about surfing. I found myself depressed if i couldn't smoke a joint and get totally ripped before i went surfing and later do a bong load before i even got out of bed in the morning. I would think back to when I was in highschool and was just super stoked to get up at dawn and get down to the beach to check the surf. It wasn't fun anymore if i was out of weed. One day I realized something wasn't right.

I lved animals and respected the environment and keeping it clean, etc. because I spent so much time in the ocean and mountains and desert, etc!

I don't know, what type of person would you consider hip in the 60's-70's, etc?


zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jun 20, 2012 - 11:34pm PT
Uncle Martin:

If you haven't yet, you should be talking to ric. If you want to add to the narrative and preserve anonymity for yourself and your friends and associates ric will do that.

If you don't like the thread drift, that's EZ, just don't read it.

I've got plenty of dead friends and family. I would guess that most everybody does. What's your driving wheel here?

Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jun 21, 2012 - 12:02am PT
What's your driving wheel here?

Same as it ever was. To whine about how everything has gone to sh#t since he was almost part of the scene.
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Jun 21, 2012 - 12:32am PT
"Truth is, you had to take a level of risk that most of the stonemasters..."

I have no concerns in regard to protecting my "memory" if i did something if i feel as thought is worth sharing, that someone could gain from it or learn from my mistakes, i would and have shared them here on this sight.

I wasn't fool hearty. I never let people goad me into doing something that could end up costing my life to just increase my reputation or gain acceptance.

I have told a couple stories here on ST. Like the time these kids wanted me to jump off a bridge and get sucked under it via cement drainage pipe that emptied out on the other side. I assessed it and could not see through the pipe because the water was over flowing/to the top of it. The kids all said the did it. And it was safe. I didn't get to swim with them on that hot day because i refused to do it. And when i went back a couple weeks later when the water was lower i found out there was rebar crisscrossing the middle of the pipe and chicken coop wire over it. I would have drowned. I was nine years old.

I was not a chicken sh#t though. When I was about 21 I encountered this guy in his early thirties who just raced out the side door of his house(flames shot out behind him. I met him at his curb just as all the skin on his right arm dripped off into a big puddle into the curb.he looked up into my eyes with a desperately pleading look and said "My baby is in there."

I went around to the front door and opened it and was knocked flat on my ass by the blast of heat, smoke and flames that shot out. It was pure black and raging smoke that was pouring out from about knee high. I got on my knees and crawled into the living room. It was so hot that I could not breath through my nose(i ended up with blisters in my nose cavity. I had t9o take little sip of air through my clenched teeth. Could not open my eyes except for a second at a time when necessary cuz they prollie would have exploded from the heat. Ended up with big blister on my palms from sliding them across the hot floor. Thank God It was Fall and I had a heavy coat on. My shoulder length hair was all burnt and shriveled up like an Afro. My eye lashes and eyebrows were gone. I had blister all over my neck and ears. I kept going and would have kept going tell I ignited or found the baby. I could only crawl very slowly because of the heat. I made it a hallway to the left because the kitchen had exploded into flame and the living room was about to go up. I had left the door open and the smoke was pouring out and lifting, but it was adding oxrgn to the fire and all hell was about to greak loose. I keptgoing. I am not bragging, but i had no fear. I had a picture of a little helpless baby and that mans pleading eyes fixed in my mind. part way down the hall way the smoke continued to lft to about waste high I saw a figure croached/frozen against the wall with her eyes closed. She had something wrapped in a blanket, i figured it was the baby. I slowly made my way towards her. Just as i was about close enough touch her the smoke lifted to about her eye level she suddenly opened her eyes and when she saw me she tilted her head to the side with a very peculiar look om her face.. As if to say what the hell is some guy doing crawling across my floor.. She suddenly came to her sense jumped up and ran towards and out the door. I did likewise. We both, along with the baby in her arms, collapsed on the lawn. The fir dept arrived a few minutes later. I got up and walked around for a little bit observing things and then went home with a couple of my neighbors who were with me but stayed outside. I was feeling kind of sick and very short of breath. Prollie should of went to the hospital but i had no money. I was burping up smoke for at least a month or so after that.. My face was a beat red and like i said i had a lot of blisters. I was fortunate, so was the baby, it was freed to go home after a day or so the man was in the hospital a week or two. The lady barely lived, but got out in about three or four weeks. I didn't really think anything about it. Kind or an anti climax sort of thing. I didn't think i saved anybody or was a hero cuz I didn't carry them out. she ran out on her own. Then one day about twenty years later, my whole family and some guests wher at our home and my sister suddenly blurts out, John is a hero, he entered this burning house and saved this baby and lady. I was puzzeled, perplexed. What was she talking about.. I didn't agree about the hero or even the saving cuz she ran out on her own. My neighbors that were there evidently told everyone what had happened back then cuz i may have briefly told them what happened cuz i looked like a cat that someone stuck in their oven and turned up the heat full blast for 30-60 seconds or so.. That is the way it felt in there to,, like climbing inside a hot oven.

Anyway, some people would consider that pretty HIP I suppose.

So, was i willing to take on a "level of risk" worthy of a stonemaster??

I have thought about it a few times since my sister embarrassed me that day and if i hadn't opened the front door she may not have gotten out of the smoke. She almost died from smoke inhalation and burns. I guess i might have saved her by opening the door. And maybe I shocked the hell out of her when she saw me crawling across the floor. lol. but i doubt that really did much in the way of saving her them.

Two dogs and tow or three cats perished. And the house burnt down to the foundation. I never saw them again after that night. i think it was a baby girl if i remember correctly. I am very happy she lived. she would be about 4o-41 years old now.

SO, was that hip or stupid??
mouse from merced

Trad climber
merced, california
Jun 21, 2012 - 12:59pm PT
Tacoville Trolley stuck in same spot for weeks?
Hit re-load.

Books
WAITING TO INHALE
Evil Weed turns up at last in Wicked Read by Lucky Licky

Movies
DARK KNIGHT OF THE SOUL
Washed up Christian Bale reported found on shore of Tenaya Lake
Braun's explanation: Stupid currents in Tenaya Creek.

Religion
College of Cardinals incensed over Furor:
Pope claims he did not have to inhale but did it anyway;
Claims miraculous recovery due to medical marijuana supplied by Morgan Freeman, who bought it from Peter.
"Truly, the bread of the Angels flying to close too the ground."--Benny XVI

Music
Payola Charges Laid to Rest:
ZBrown cleared, reinstated on Front Page.
"Rumours don't bother me. It's just one of the best LPs of 1977."--zB
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Jun 21, 2012 - 08:00pm PT
Uncle Martin,

Yep. I was a bonafide dirtbag myself. Living hand to mouth was my choice though. Being a white boy, and a realatively healthy one(i could climb, ski & surf so i must have been)would have put me in a position, at that time, to make, at least, an above average wage(compared to some individuals/demographics who were not so socio-economically blessed)and chip away at the American dream. The thing with some of our generation, was, we didn't want to wait fifty years or so to enjoy the fruits of our labors. And, we didn't want to 'waste' our best years(physically speaking)behind a desk somewhere. We took a look at the prior generation, admired their fortitude perhaps, but wanted it all NOW, and then some. Put a higher value on the temporary pleasures of instant gratification, rather than the perhaps more rewarding and satisfying pot of gold known as a, respectable or at least an attempt at one, career that was a small part, a patch in the fabric that makes up our great country, keeps it rolling and oils the cogs in the machine. Our contribution to society. To social security, etc.!

We abhored a day by day hardworking large segment of the society that who were the ones who actually provided the prosperous landscape for a few that seemed to be slowly slipping into the "I want it now" generation. I can't imagine if the majority of our, or any, generation decided to go climbing, surfing or skiing, etc., full time and and only work when absolutely when necessary and prefer to live off unemployment and continue with the leasure activities fulltime.

Maybe that is where some of our heads were at. And when some metal bird with a gut full of hippy lettuce and other shit(evidently)ran out of steam or simply decided that a handfull of dirtbags who hungout in the immediate vicinity cud use a lil help and inspiration(or perhaps turn for the worst)either providence or a curse(perhaps a mix of both)arranged for it to plop down in a not so nearby lake during one of the few drought years of the last couple decades. A lot of things came together then. For better or worse.

I don't think a handful of selfcenterd/self focused dirtbags who may or may not have cashed in on this 'bonanza' or modern day goldrush is what Licky is focusing on to highlight, attract interest, promote, sell or whatever, his book. It prollie would have been completed long ago, if so. And I agree with much of your assesment in regards to the viability and importance of this "mythos" surrounding the "Valley regulars" and how it could somehow be damaged by certain truthfulness on some of their parts. I believe it was a certain Mr. Cash who a younger generation was drawn to in droves when he decided to bare his soul when he was approached for his last gift to this acheing world of ours and produced, imo, some of his best and most revealing work. Such as his cover of "Hurt" which happens to be one of my favorite songs and I can fully ID with. Perhaps some of these "Valley Regulars" who are now riding their somewhat aging stallions and rather swiftly fading into the limelight latter years, could take notice and bare their collective souls and speak mountains of truth and good to a younger generation that is doing everything they can to imulate them. And, unfortunately, like your handful of buddies who "took the easy way out" are feeling rather disillusioned, empty and hopless at times.

So i agree, not so much with your self percieved one upmanship of the more secure(in your opinion)financialy/socialy "Valley Regulars/stonemasters, what you are claiming secondary to your finacial/social situation and is what drove you vs the "Valley regulars"(cuz many of the ones i new were no better off than i in that respect)that may or may not be true, or could at least be tempered one way or another. I am saying that coming clean, honesty and being up front about how they got to where they are at, was it all worth it and how do they reflect back on this big picture called life, may do much to gain fans and speak volumes to, imo, a new generation that is in many ways no different than the old generation. But, for whom, the once lush and fertile fields of our generation, the very ground they wish they could have walked on i imagine and made a name for themselves, tends to be getting more trampled and an a lil' grayer looking day by day.

Major ramble here. i prollie don't make much sense. I just kinda type as the thoughts surface...prollie should give them more thought, but they are what first comes to mind, FWIW.

edit: And, BTW, welcome back RocSox or Jox or whatever ya use ta call yerself!! ;)

Regarding the burning house, i will prollie delete that/way off topic. But i figured it had nothing to do with being "Hip". But i was wondering if it involved the amount of "Risk" you mentioned, and furthermore claimed, many of the "stonemasters/Valley regulars" didn't possess forone reason or other. Guess i wasfeeling kinda insecure last night or something and saw an opportunity to spray and cover all my sins plus convince a few people that i am not really the big chiken sh#t of a climber that i know i was(compared to the "Valley Regulars i personally new anyway). Lata...
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jun 21, 2012 - 08:30pm PT
Nothing seem to happen that ain't happened before
I see it all through flashes of depression
I drop my drink and hit some people running for the door
Gotta make some kind of impression
Cause when I'm disconnected from the driving wheel
I'm only half the man I should be
But metal hitting metal is all I feel
And everything is good as it possibly could be

Crawling from the wreckage, crawling from the wreckage
You'd think by now at least
That half my brain would get the message
Crawling from the wreckage, crawling from the wreckage
Into a brand new car

RsqClimber

Trad climber
Phoenix, Arizona
Jun 22, 2012 - 02:19pm PT
Hi Im late to this but was doing my annual google of Jack Dorn, since he is on our Line of Duty Deaths for Search and Rescue missions. I never could find a pic of him for the annual slide show, but Mark, yours is great and I hope I can have permission to use it.
I ran into a giuy in 2005 who said Jack was to be his best man but didnt show up at the wedding until he found out what happened to Jack. By the time I got free to ask the guy more, he was gone, slo I dont know his name...
Tim Kovacs
"my first rock shoes were kletters, and 6.0 was as high as you could go"
602-819-4066
tkovacs@cox.net
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jun 26, 2012 - 12:02pm PT
“The crash had huge ramifications on climbing in Yosemite for years after. Just not the ramifications you think about or can see easily”

THAT is the point I tried without success to make to Licky way back when, back when I thought he was writing a comprehensive story as opposed to one that is weighted toward the technical aspects and away from the sociological impacts that resulted from the illicit bonanza. The plane changed the way of life, albeit temporarily, of many Valley residents, both over and underground. It seemed as if everyone had disposable income suddenly, even those who didn’t really know what was happening. Before we had Reagan’s “trickle-down” theory of economics, Yosemite’s post-plane era could have served as a test case for the idea that a rising tide lifts all boats. Not all residents scored $$$ off the event, but enough did to make a noticeable impact on the community, and not just the community of C4 and it’s legendary stonemasters but on regular folks as well. To some degree the C4 community was isolated from the larger community of Y.P.& C. Co. employees although many of us climbed regularly while holding down menial jobs. Licky has cherrypicked his data and I fear the book will suffer from his narrow perspective – there were so many people involved who had no connection to the climbing “scene” but were part of the overall story. But of course Licky knows more about those times than some of us who actually lived through it. One thing’s for sure: he, or anyone else could write a different book based solely on the information on the recent posts here on the thread, and that book would be the biography of The Splitter. Is that dude in love with himself or what? Probably lives in a room full of mirrors. For that matter, Licky probably does as well.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jun 26, 2012 - 12:28pm PT
Intresting, I guess its equally likely that it had the impact you said but no one wants to admit it now - they have kids, maybe office jobs and of course their legacies. I personally think it would be a very cool story (if true) but can understand people want to disown their pasts now.

Licky would be facing the same dilemma as any author or newspaper reporter. His job is to tell the truth. If it ends up hurting people, you have to balance respecting their privacy, with the value of the story. Just printing negative information about people has no value to the public, but in this case the point is not to hurt anyone but to tell a story that may be central to the development of yosemite climbing. Of course you better know what you're talking about so you don't get sued for defamation. Also should check CA and federal statutes of limtiations for drug trafficking. Hard to imagine anyone could still be prosecuted for this but it should be checked.

I would make a distinction between information someone confided in me, which I would keep confidential, with something I learned on my own. But for second hand info you really have to check the source particularly if the source wants confidentiality.

I heard stories about this many years ago, and think it would be great if licky can cultivate some sources and get the story.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jun 26, 2012 - 01:17pm PT
Why don't you write your own book sidmo?
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jun 26, 2012 - 01:49pm PT
Yeah Freddie is my son, I taught him to shoot the long ball. Couldnt' get on board with fBrown though.



zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jun 26, 2012 - 11:00pm PT
Well I probably wouldn't know a cyber savage from Spider Sabich, unless of course it bit me, but you got me to thinking. I'm thinking now it was a daughter Sweet Georgia (swBrown) that was my child (no ordinary love child by any means) and that Freddie was actually my brother. Don't hold me to it though.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jun 27, 2012 - 02:05am PT
Well, DP & JB, if this was my project, I’d not have the guts to do it as nonfiction, or even as creative nonfiction, which is what I am trained for – I have to admire that about Licky . . . I recommended that this story was more easily told (and sold) as a fiction piece, you know – the kind of novel that is “based on fact” – and yeah, that is a real wussed-out way to cheese on the hard part, which of course is verification and ramifications of same – if Licky pulls this off (despite my tone I AM pulling for him to finish and prove me wrong) he will have done something substantial – but he steps on toes and the occasional entire foot in his zeal to curry favor with some participants here on the thread – that’s all legitimate journalism, but he broadcasts his cliquishness instead of playing his hand close to his vest – I and others he pillioried should never have been aware of the fact that he discounts the opinions we shared for no benefit to ourselves (those hollow accusations of us wanting our “15 minutes of fame” are so baseless that they make him appear to be drowning in his own desire for notoriety) – we offered help to a stranger and got called liars for our trouble, not cool – hopefully he’s learning the folly of his ways and will be the better journalist for it – he should thank us all for our input and leave his comments unstated – that would be professional and courteous – as a journalist he should never take sides publicly – all the more reason to write it up as fiction – since he IS opinionated it would afford him the opportunity to call things as he sees them – he’s doing that now, and it is undermining his credibility as a journalist – if he doesn’t like that label, then again, he should write it as fiction
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jun 27, 2012 - 02:43am PT
good luck selling that story of an individual plane that sailed off an assembly line in some factory somewhere - pilots, airplane mechanics, aviation nuts . . . whoops, just ran out of customers, err readers -
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jun 27, 2012 - 01:04pm PT
Hell no, I don’t think there are more climbing readers than flying readers – never said that – if Licky delves into too much detail about brands of carabiners or how to best lace up your EBs the book won’t be a success either – like most things, the solution is in the middle someplace – and I know about pilots and airplane enthusiasts, my dad was a flight instructor, a captain in the army air corps and a member of AOPA – when I grew up we owned a series of light aircraft, the last one a twin engine 5 seater Piper Apache, so I know a bit about the flying scene and the climbing scene – I learned to pilot a plane before I even went to driver’s education and got my ground pilot liscence – but that said, I still think there will be little interest from the general public in a book about a machine, albeit a flying machine – stories that sell are generally about people, not things
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 30, 2012 - 12:35am PT
The purpose of me collecting stories and writing this book is not for notoriety or for money. After hearing so many of the stories that surrounded this event and knowing that most were purely fictitious, I decided to set things straight. I really don't care about whether or not a book is sold nor care about a market for the book. The story needs to be told with as much fact as can be gleaned from records, documents, and substantiated interviews.
Sidmo flips and flops back and forth about how I’m going to tarnish the reps of the climbing crowd and how it really was. I’m not going to use names. The stories are more important than who said what. Many of those that have granted me interviews have asked me not to identify them, yet they still want to tell their stories. I have agreed to not name them.

What pisses off sidmo is that I don’t believe him. And so he rants. Whether he was there or not is not important since I’m not interested in names, only stories. His stories are of the bland and not worthy of mention. Ya think that sidmo wants his fame?

Sidmo..you are not consistant in your rant...but you do rant.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jun 30, 2012 - 12:40am PT
Good for you ric, as I've said before, I'll certainly read it. Riding, wrenching, writing.


EDIT: Whoops - reading!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 30, 2012 - 12:47am PT
Z..I certainly understand the wrenching part...good luck...ride safe
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jun 30, 2012 - 12:57am PT
That's Robert Pirsig - author of Zen and the Art of Motorcylce Maintenance, a primer on value and why folks write (and I guess read) books.

I admire your persistance.

What a long strange trip it will have been.





sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 1, 2012 - 10:42pm PT
Phuck you Licky – you are entitiled to your own opinions, but NOT your own facts. That you set up yourself as arbiter of truth, and decide without counsel of experts as to what is “true” is what I have a problem with, not that you don’t value my judgments. You aren’t qualified to read my mind nor anyone else’s. Add to that the fact that you now say that you will use no names – like I said, write your fantasy as fiction acehole! Anything you write now will be tainted with your confession to protect the names. If you’re going to spin the yarn to your fit own opinion, why pretend to be objective? If the deep thinkers here can’t wrap their minds around that, and believe Licky that I somehow desire fame from my input, then I can only ask: if I wanted notoriety, why would I remain anonymous? Do you believe that at the end of all this acrimony I’ll raise my hand and identify myself? Yet I’d have to do that to actually gain fame, no?
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jul 1, 2012 - 11:51pm PT
Well all right. Truth be told, I was the only passenger on that ill-fated flight who survived after parachuting to safety. Of course I want to see the book come out without my true name being dropped.

All these wannabe drug dealers who scrambled up to the lake to scavenge on our lost cargo were so far off base that my associates and I nearly died laughing when we heard what they were doing. If they'd had an ounce, kilo, or perhaps a ton of sens(imilla) they would have gotten their own ship, plane, monument, notepads, farm, canning factory, ... and got into some real money making.

Everybody's just standing 'round 'neath the trees,
Feeding pigeons on a limb
But when Quinn the Eskimo gets here,
them pigeons gonna go to him.



Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jul 2, 2012 - 02:28pm PT
Dude I would trade this lawyer job for the toilet cleaning job in Yosemite.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jul 2, 2012 - 02:54pm PT
Sidmo: you wrote a few posts back:

“I cleaned busses, toilets in the rear, but for YTS, not curry – teamster job, good wages and 5pm to 1 am shift – left every day open to climb til evening – I ain’t ashamed of that, dude – were you making up beds for Ma Curry? Oh well, at least you weren’t tray scrounging in the lodge caf . . . or were you?”

And then this recent post: “Well, DP & JB, if this was my project, I’d not have the guts to do it as nonfiction, or even as creative nonfiction, which is what I am trained for”

Trained for what?

One of your comrades said you actually did write, took some time but found this one on Google. So guess you have written an article or like you say “which is what I am trained for”

copyright@sidmo: sport climber, general delivery YNP; courtesy of DNC Parks & Resorts at Yosemite, Inc. (DNC), an affiliate of Delaware North Companies formally known as Y.P.& C. Co. [Yosemite Park and Curry Co.].

How to Clean Toilets on Medium to Large Transportation Vehicles

The primary thing to keep in mind when you’re cleaning a toilet is that you’re not merely trying to make it look nice, as you might when dusting a lamp. You’re cleaning it for health reasons, and that takes more effort than dusting a lamp.

Table of Contents:

[A] Quick and Easy
A Proper Toilet Cleaning
[C] For That Deep Down Clean Toilet Feeling

There are three approaches:

[A] Quick and Easy

Tools:

Toilet Brush
Scrub brush or wash cloth.
Disinfectant Sprays
Toilet Cleaner
Rubber Gloves

Instructions:
1. Open the windows and door and turn on the fan – you’re ventilating Transit Bus or similar vehicle so you don’t choke on the fumes from your cleaners.
2. Flush the toilet to wet the sides of the bowl.
3. Squirt some liquid toilet cleaner up under the rim, all the way around the bowl and let it start running down the sides.
4. Swab the interior of the bowl with the toilet brush, getting up under the rim and putting a little more elbow grease into cleaning the area at the water line.
5. Flush the toilet. As the incoming water rinses the bowl, swirl the toilet brush to rinse it.
6. Use another brush or a wash cloth to wash the underside of the seat, the top of the seat, and the exterior of the toilet.
7. Allow the whole thing to drip dry.

Now, how about putting one of those continual cleaner devices in the tank? Not such a terrific idea. All you’ll get with them is cleaner water that may be colored blue, and that does not, on its own, clean toilet bowls. Moreover, if you should drink out of the toilet, that tank tablet could prove poisonous.

A Proper Toilet Cleaning

Tools:

Goggles or glasses to protect your eyes from chemicals and splatters.

Stiff bristle brush with a storage container to put it in when you’re done. Brush and bristles should be all-plastic; twisted wire brushes can scratch your toilet and permanently damage it.

Rubber gloves.

Paper towels for cleaning the exterior of the toilet. Never use a sponge.

A sponge can end up anywhere in the rear of the bus, and you never know whether it’s been used on the toilet.

Non-abrasive cleanser. A powdered cleanser provides enough abrasion for scrubbing but not enough to scratch.

Spray cleaner.

Pumice stone.

Bleach spray. Bleach is a major pollutant, so use it for sterilizing only when there is a communicable illness in the surrounding area that may involve diarrhea or vomiting.

Instructions:
1. Open the windows and door and turn on the fan – you’re ventilating the vehicle {bus] you don’t choke on the fumes from your cleaners.
2. Remove all items on the tank, remove lid covers, rubber mats around the base of the toilet, and anything else nearby.
3. Put the lid down, then flush.
4. Sprinkle cleanser all around the bowl, as close to the rim as possible.
5. With your eye protection on, grab your brush and begin brushing the bowl from the top down. Scrub under the rim first, then the bowl, and, finally, the trap or hole at the bottom of the commode.
6. Where there are stubborn stains, use the pumice stone to rub them out; make sure the stone is wet to avoid scratching.
7. Swish the brush around to rinse it.
8. Put the lid down, but with the brush under it to drain off excess water, and flush. Never let powdered cleansers sit in the bowl; they can accumulate at the bottom.
9. Spray the exterior of the toilet with your cleaning spray starting at the top and working down.
10. Using several sheets of paper towels, wipe down the tank, starting at the top, being sure to get the handle, and then wipe the outside of the lid.
11. Wipe down the entire bowl area – sides, front, and where the toilet meets the floor.
12. Raise the seat, remove your brush, and put it away.
13. Spray the seat, inside lid, and rim with cleaner and then wipe clean with paper towels, starting at the lid, then the seat, and ending with the rim. If you see urine stains, degreaser products like Greased Lightening will bring them to the surface for cleaning.
14. Make sure you hit the area behind the hinges next to the tank. This area gets particularly filthy.
15. Toss out the used paper towels. You’re done.

[C] For That Deep Down Clean Toilet Feeling

Tools:

Rubber or vinyl work gloves

Eye Protection

Disinfectant/detergent/cleaner (any chemical that calls itself a disinfectant and has an E.P.A. number on the label to back up the claim of being a disinfectant)

Disposable toweling or launder able cloth

Bowl Swab (12″ long plastic handle with “bunny tail” material at the end approximately 4″ in diameter)

Acid (if you have hard water deposits)

Bucket

White vinegar

Plunger

Small mirror

Black light

Instructions:
1. Open the windows and door and turn on the fan – you’re ventilating the vehicle so you don’t choke on the fumes from your cleaners.
2. Put on your gloves and safety glasses.
3. Using a disinfectant/detergent cleaner, mixed either in a spray bottle or in a bucket (according to label instructions), spray or wipe down all hard surfaces outside the bowl, particularly high touch areas like the seat and flush handle.
4. To disinfect the surfaces, they must remain wet for ten minutes, unless the label instructions state otherwise; this completely kills bacteria, fungi, and viruses.
5. Flush the toilet, and rinse its outer surfaces.
6. Lower the water line in the toilet; there are at least 4 different ways to accomplish this:
Push the bowl swab in and out of the hole at the bottom of the toilet quickly until the water level drops into the trap.
Quickly pour about 1.5 gallons of water from a bucket into the toilet.
Turn the water to the toilet off and flush the toilet.
Use a toilet plunger to force the water down and out of the trap.
7. Spray the inside surfaces of the toilet bowl to totally disinfect the toilet; the surface must remain wet for ten minutes unless stated otherwise on the label.
8. Apply a disinfectant or detergent cleaner or bowl cleaner to a toilet bowl swab.
9. Starting under the rim and working down, clean the bowl.
10. If there are tough stains on the bowl, apply a small amount of bowl cleaner to the stain or apply bowl cleaner to the swab and rest it on top of the stain. Hard, stubborn stains can be removed with a pumice stick.
11. A small mirror can be used to look under the rim to detect any stubborn stains you have missed that may also be contributing to malodors.
12. To clean toilets where hard water has left mineral deposits, use a pumice stone.
13. If the going is too slow going using just the pumice stone and water, add one of the following cleaning solutions:
Citric acid is okay for mild deposits because, while it’s the slowest of any of the solutions to remove minerals, it’s safest to use.
Phosphoric acid is good on heavier deposits and not as caustic as muriatic acid or hydrochloric acid.
Where hard water conditions are extreme and the toilet has not been cleaned often enough, you will probably have to apply hydrochloric or muriatic acid; this stuff is highly caustic, so make sure you’re protected, that you don’t spill it, and that the room is well ventilated. Also keep it away from chrome fixtures, which it defaces.
14. After the appropriate time, flush the toilet.
15. Wipe dry the outside surfaces, including the toilet seat and handle, with a cloth or a paper towel.
16. If you notice that mold or mildew has formed on the grout around the base of the commode, pour on white vinegar and clean it with a stiff brush.
17. If you want to get really serious – and you have one or more males in the household with bad aim – a fluorescent-type black light will show, after the room lights have been turned off, urine salts and spots missed cleaning in and around toilets. Urine fluorescess a dull yellow under the light.

What I do not understand how did someone like you knowing about flying airplanes ended up cleaning toilets for a living? Think it was written in a Reader’s Digest magazine a few years back did Playboy turn you down?
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jul 2, 2012 - 03:38pm PT
^That must have been the manual that fattrad and Boner studied. Has anyone ever seen sidmo and fattrad in a room at the same time? fattrad and Boner?

michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Jul 2, 2012 - 04:32pm PT
Sidmo you sound crazy.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 2, 2012 - 11:47pm PT
i sound crazy all the way to sacto? you got good ears dude - you guys on this thread are so critical, can't we all just get along?

my first day in the garage the crew teased me all thru the first part of the shift. seems that the new guy always had to dump the shitter into the sewage drain. after lunch they broke out a rubber suit, head to toe coverage. i was told to stand outside the rear of the bus and flip the switch. and no matter what happenned, or how bad it got i was to struggle thru and hold the switch open. well i was plenty scared. everyone watched from a safe distance laughing. i hesitated, andonly got more catcalls and verbal abuse for my timidity. then i mustered up the courage to flip the switch and closed my eyes. when nothing sprayed on me, and the crew had a good laugh i realized i'd been had, and we put the little-used rubber suit away for the next hire. that was my initiation, the job was actually pretty easy. we got teamster wages, which was way more than any non-management jobs in the valley, and our shift began at 5 PM. so laugh at me now losers, but i got to climb every day until about 4 and sleep in a bed at nite. guess you had it better in camp 4.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jul 2, 2012 - 11:58pm PT
The plane changed the way of life, albeit temporarily, of many Valley residents, both over and underground. ... Not all residents scored $$$ off the event, but enough did to make a noticeable impact on the community, and not just the community of C4 and it’s legendary stonemasters but on regular folks as well.

well sidmo, not many hear (pun) are , but I'm all ears. Please explain.

The Brotherhood (at least some) was out to change the world, but did they?

The plane crash scavengers apparently were not out to change the world, but did. Just tell us how.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 3, 2012 - 10:27am PT
why would plane crash scavengers, as you put it, be more likely to change the world for the better than any avarage person who recieved a windfall profit from a stock sale, or real estate transaction, or inheritance, for example. we were no better than anyone else, nor worse. some did good things with their money, others squandered it aimlessly. most probably spent some wisely and splurged some too. if you ever lived someplace that experienced a bonanza that was significant because so many who profitted from the event had been indigent then it might not seem unusual to you. i found the phenomenon intriguing myself. licky is more intersted in airplane mechanisms than sociological effects. that's okay, but i think it's the wrong approach to a book project, but it's his perogative. he can write it any way he wants, but it will bore readers if it focusses as much or more on the plane as it does on the people. and for that basic message he singles me out for vitriol. it's ok, i just think it's an odd way to go about writing a book.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jul 3, 2012 - 11:20am PT
i found the phenomenon intriguing myself. licky is more intersted in airplane mechanisms than sociological effects.

1). Me too. Having seen alot of it up close and personal, it's always interested me. However, aside from a few instances where folks got in and out with good timing most, that I have knowledge of, did not "profit".

2.) I think it's not possible to attribute interests to ric until the book comes out.

3.) Scavengers is probably not a correct choice of words, how about opportunists. Interestingly many in the Brotherhood would fit in the following description, keeping the streets of Laguna Beach nice and tidy, while pursuing the drug trade.

Scavenger appears as an occupation in the 1911 Census of England and Wales. This job title was used to describe someone who cleans the streets, removes refuse, generally a workman (a modern-day garbage collector, janitor, or street cleaner) employed by the local public health authority.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jul 3, 2012 - 12:08pm PT
If someone has a better job than the Yosemite toilet cleaning job at teamster pay, speak now or forever hold your peace.

We need names and verifiable facts. Otherwise it's useless, what you're saying.
James Wilcox

Boulder climber
The Coast
Jul 3, 2012 - 01:35pm PT
Sidmo, that's the beauty of being the author. You can write about
whatever you want. You can omit whatever you want. The only two people
you have to appease is yourself and the publisher.

Look at your own posts. We'd love to edit them (or delete). But you have
the same rights as Rick. Only you or Chris can do that.

edit:
@Don, agreed about truth content. But that's why I included "about". Some think Rick should focus on the climbers' stories after the crash-while he obviously finds the lives of the pilots and that fateful flight more compelling. Since it's his book, his preference trumps.
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Jul 3, 2012 - 01:37pm PT
Sidmo should write his own story.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jul 3, 2012 - 02:36pm PT
Don't agree that people can write whatever they want without regard for the truth. However, I wouldn't use sidmo's info either, it's just way too vague.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jul 3, 2012 - 06:06pm PT



sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 4, 2012 - 02:02am PT
now that IS funny - would you like me to autograph that copy for you?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2012 - 02:43am PT
sidmo...my offer for a cup of coffee still stands. You up to it?
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jul 11, 2012 - 11:54am PT

This thread seriously needs to go away. In the beginning it was interesting, but as usual it's been twisted so far out of reality and thread topic that there is no saving it. Well done, ST trolls! Add another notch to your keyboards.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 12, 2012 - 02:38am PT
Vegas...all you have to do is not click on the link to this thread. I know
its tough. Its like watching a train wreak. Just look the other way.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 15, 2012 - 11:24am PT
Back on topic - I still say it was a prop governor.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 16, 2012 - 03:49pm PT
I’d meet you Licky, if, and only if, you showed some measure of humility here online – you had no place initiating an acrimonious relationship with me or chainsaw or anyone else on this thread that you disagreed with . . . or found displeasure in for any reason. Admit that like a man and I’ll reconsider. Otherwise you still will seem to want it both ways. You can’t be an impartial historian, writer or journalist while picking and playing favorites. Why would anyone want to help you when your posts make you appear to be a pompous ass? I offered to help once and got attacked for it. My guess is that you will again take offense at my reply, and begin yet another sanctimonious diatribe aimed at those of us with whom you disagree. Prove me wrong if you’re mature enough to. Try the two most difficult words in any language: "I'm sorry" - reading them would change the equation, but I wonder if you have them in your vocabulary.My guess is you have too much “pride” to apologize, much less to grovel. I’d settle for you just admitting to a simple breach of professional ethics and a promise not to do it again. It’s hacks like you that give writers a bad name. Journalists score about the same as politicians in polls, and it’s not right. We do our best to get stories right, and along comes somebody with less ethics and more scintillating copy. As I said, it’s not right. You should strive for accuracy, and that means seeing things from perspectives other than your own.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jul 16, 2012 - 04:02pm PT
I don't know. Ric made 26 posts with the name sidmo mentioned. I'm not gonna re-read them all, but the first couple (number one below) seem pretty polite to me.


http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=73572&msg=842944#msg842944

I've offered to return locker's dirty laundry after he accused me of 'borrowing' them, intimated that he looked like philo, under appreciated his commitment to Da Brim, misinterpreted some of his more esoteric photographic work, but he has never turned me down for coffeee, nor I him.

The beat goes on.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2012 - 10:54pm PT
"...and begin yet another sanctimonious diatribe aimed at those of us with whom you disagree." I'm shaking my head in wonder at you sidmo. Are you yelling at yourself in a mirror? I simply offered to have a cup of coffee with you. Maybe at the table we can come to some mutually acceptable level of civil discourse. Ya think?

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 17, 2012 - 11:48am PT
Looky here Licky – it is incumbent on you to change the tone of the discourse here on the thread that you initiated and may benefit from if you ever do finish your book – both professionally and financially. If you believe that I could be appeased with a cup of coffee in some quiet café then I guess you underestimate my aversion to your manner and technique. You may well succeed, but it will be in spite of your rudeness, not because of it.

I’ve been on both ends of interviews, and I respect the process too much to allow a bully to circumvent what should always be respectful exchange of information and viewpoints. The good news, Licky, is that it is not too late for you to admit that this is a complicated process and perhaps you may have erred from time to time in your public communication with some of your correspondents. In other words, publicly apologize to me, Chainsaw, and anyone else that you disparaged during the long course of this thread. Chalk it up to experience, and avoid looking like an intransigent juvenile. Contrition can be cathartic if you allow it to help you grow in a positive direction.

The truth behind this feud is obvious to anyone who cares to read. I offered my small contribution freely and for some reason you balked. That is your prerogative, and no one would deny you that. The vitriol that subsequently emerged from your end was both uncalled for and unprofessional. You looked small and petty in the process, which was unfortunate and avoidable. You still ask for something for nothing, as is the going price for information in your world. But in the professional world of words and letters courtesy pays the tab for participation, and I must insist on extracting that price for my cooperation. Not the price of a cup of coffee; I can afford to go Dutch, thank you.

What I am saying here Licky, is that you can extricate yourself from my scorn for nothing more than the price of a post. Simply apologize as I recommended and I believe you will find relief from a situation that, while you may be able to withstand it, would undoubtedly be simpler if it went away. I’ll get off your case if, and only if you grow up enough to say you’re sorry, but I can’t speak for Chainsaw. You see, I am not him. When you accused us of being one and the same, you destroyed any professional credibility you may have had. You were dead wrong on that point, and you should admit it. Stop attacking your sources. You don’t piss in your vegetable garden, why would you shyt in your internet thread?

And stop worrying about my motive for corresponding, or anyone else’s. If we don’t share our reasons, then silently note that when you evaluate our contribution, or lack thereof. If we are holding back on you, browbeating a confession will not be effective. Just take information, and thank the source if you are inclined to be polite. Attack the source only if you care to appear impolite. Use the golden rule, if you will. Your job is to gather information, not bolster your ego. Stop flaming online, it’s counterproductive.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2012 - 07:45pm PT
knock...knock...knock Sheldon...knock...knock...knock Sheldon...knock...knock...knock Sheldon...knock...knock...knock Sheldon...knock...knock...knock Sheldon...


Couldn't help myself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f85ViOmwbI0
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 17, 2012 - 11:39pm PT
????????????? is that an inside joke ??????????????
makes no sense in any comprehendable context
corniss chopper

climber
breaking the speed of gravity
Jul 18, 2012 - 12:10am PT
someone posted these old pics possibly of the
cargo being salvaged?
http://public.fotki.com/RonLykins/travel/airplane_1977/



and some pics of the type of airplane this incident revolves around.

Lockheed C60 Lodestar rescued from out of a junkyard

http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=44135


other curiosities

Radial engine in Yosemite Park - not a lodestar engine.
http://www.summitpost.org/airplane-gully/455050

http://pacaeropress.websitetoolbox.com/post/Radial-engine-in-Yosemite-Park-3040745
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Jul 18, 2012 - 12:53am PT
Pretty amazing photos given all the paranoia on this thread.
WBraun

climber
Jul 18, 2012 - 01:03am PT
Yeah speaking of paranoia LOL

I picked up this tweaker hitch hiker once.

He kept thinking I was cop because of my 2way radio in my car.

He was saying stupid sh!t on and on and all I could do was laugh.

He finally says I can't be a cop since cops don't laugh at everything he's saying .....
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jul 18, 2012 - 01:04am PT
^That was me, I didn't recognize you. And everybody says stupid sheeit. I don't get the tweaker reference, don't know what tweak is. You did laugh right? Isn't that the main goal of life.



Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 18, 2012 - 03:26am PT
July 2008 Issue of Scree, Peak Climbing Section, Loma Prieta Chapter, Sierra Club

http://peakclimbing.org/scree/2008/JUL_2008_SCREE.pdf

My name is Ron, I lived in Yosemite in 1976 and 1977,
worked at the Ahwahnee Hotel. I am one of the so called
"hikers" actually on snowshoes, who found the airplane, or
the wing as it turned out along the trail to Lower Merced Pass
Lake and our ultimate destination, Ottoway Lake, in the Clark
range. We never made Lower Merced Pass Lake, pity, I often
wonder what would have happened if I had and figured out
what happened. When we returned to the valley after
camping on Ottoway Lake I reported to the Rangers that we
had found a wing in the high country and gave them the
numbers from the wing. Well all hell broke lose and in the
next few days the entire Valley knew the story of the plane
crash.
In April 1977 I returned with seemingly the entire Valley and
returned with a backpack full of pot. Which I quickly dried
and sold to a friend in San Jose. The next year I went back to
college and used the airplane money to make the move to San
Diego and pay for my first two years of college. Something
good did come from the "Loadstar Lightning".
Rich Schloss is a good guy and has interviewed me and we
have spoken on the phone a few times since. He is trying to
piece the story together from several angles. I personally
don't think there is any need to be fearful, statute of
limitations having long expired. If you really know something
first hand, NOT HEARSAY, (there are all kinds of Valley
myths), then I would encourage you to come forward and let's
get the whole story out. I have learned so much from him and
cleared up some of the myths I still believed about the event.
I HAVE PHOTOS FROM THE SHOWSHOE TRIP TO
OTTOWAY LAKE WHEN WE FOUND HE WING AND
THE POT SALVAGE IN APRIL ON-LINE at:
http://public.fotki.com/RonLykins/travel/airplane_1977/
The first 7 or so are at the lake in April (chopping pot out of
the ice) the others are the snowshoe trip when we found the
wing, shots of the wing included.
I look forward to reading Ricks book when it is realeased.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 18, 2012 - 08:40am PT

knock knock who's there?

some moron it seems - or is licky telling inside jokes to his select audience of sympathizers?
for someone writing a book, licky seems remarkably short of words - is he in over his head or am I the only one who thinks he's drowning?
I’ve rarely wanted so much to be wrong about something – c’mon Licky, make my day - Like Jon/Ron, I would love to buy and read Licky’s book . . . if I live that long
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Jul 18, 2012 - 11:57am PT
Sidmo is delusional, probably borderline/full blown schizophrenic.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 18, 2012 - 12:10pm PT
Jon, good score! That Ron dood must be some kinda anomaly what with using
his real name, posting cool pictures, and not being paranoid. He must be a plant.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jul 18, 2012 - 12:10pm PT
Awesome pictures, I love the ad on the right side of the page where you can click to get any of them put on a coffee cup or t-shirt. Who are all those people in the pictures, anyway?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 18, 2012 - 11:48pm PT
i love you amatuer shrinks - such linear thinking, ever wonder if you're right? yeah, i didn't think so - so who's delusional? some guy guessing about what some other dude is thinking, or some fella commenting on what actually happenned in plain sight? mr. michaeleld, are you in licky's corner or just another hater? not that anyone cares, but curiousity inquires
WBraun

climber
Jul 18, 2012 - 11:53pm PT
No one is hater here sidmo.

No one is guessing about what you're thinking since you're writing it down here.

So it's a bonafide proven fact that you're just plain delusional and above all "Just plain Stupid".

God you so are stupid beyond anything every witnessed here .......
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jul 19, 2012 - 12:00am PT
Back before Sid Vicious passed on, alot folks used to cryout for mo' sid. Funny, it's kinda quiet here in the audience.

@WBraun - I left my stash bag in your car under the back seat. By now it's kinda old so if you find it, just hike on up to the lake and drop it in please.

graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jul 19, 2012 - 02:54am PT
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 19, 2012 - 10:20am PT
What are you Brauney, a paper towel trying to wipe the thread clean of stuff you find objectionable? All I do is comment about Licky and people that attack me first – I’d never arbitrarily decide that someone was lying, wrong, crazy, etc. without actually knowing that person - based on the little information gleaned from a mere post WTF makes you qualified to judge others? Are you psychic? Degreed in psychology? Or just a confrontational contrarian? This thread brings out the worst in everyone, myself included I suppose. What I can glean from your writing is that you are neither well-spoken nor eloquent, or perhaps just feigning ignorance. Anti-intellectualism might have seemed cool back in the day, but it’s time you matured beyond such juvenile behavior. Note that I’m not calling you crazy, just ignorant – or as I said, perhaps you just prefer to wallow in adolescence. I wonder Brauney, if we met in a bar if you’d do something grownup like yell at me? Or kick my ass?
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jul 19, 2012 - 03:57pm PT
Sidmo

Stupid, yes but more in lacking in intelligence for a better word.

michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Jul 19, 2012 - 04:02pm PT
I'm in nobody's "corner" Sidmo. I just don't see a problem with the facts coming out. Even if the names are squashed, the story is a good one.

Are you worried about the reputations being tarnished because of a little pot in the 70's?

It's not like the entire world is gonna buy this book (Sorry Licks). Just climbers, or curious people.

What is your mind set Sidmo? Why are you so against the book coming out? Who are you? Why do you care? People who WERE there have admitted to being there, told their stories. They haven't ratted anyone out. What's your deal?

michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Jul 19, 2012 - 04:23pm PT
They look like 5lb bales of wet weed, drying on an open plastic package.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jul 19, 2012 - 04:36pm PT
Reason is: Sidmo thinks he is the book and want’s all the credit, that’s why I posted this picture.


All he knows is that a plane crashed in "77 and nothing else.

Edit: Understand this is what he looks like now from cleaning too many toilets.


Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jul 19, 2012 - 04:45pm PT
ice axes = climbers. The guy who posted the pics, Ron Lykins, is in at least one of them and probably can just tell you the story.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 19, 2012 - 09:20pm PT
OUCH! I DONE BEEN SHANGHAIED AGIN!!
Michael, I’m not against the book, I want Licky to finish – there’s both positive and negative reinforcement, and he gets plenty of the positive, me and ‘Saw are providing the negative is all – look, nothing wrong with an amateur writer tackling a story that’s deep, but he should adopt professional ethics and methods when possible . . . and COURTESY – sure, he pissed me off being rude but I still want to read his story – but I’M NOT GONNA KISS AN ASS THAT FARTS AT ME – as for the photos, plane weed didn’t look much like any pot we were getting in the 70s – and as for statutes of limitations . . . well, they have limitations – if anyone wants to wave their freak flag, let ‘em fly – but some of us live in “Red States” and if we/they want to exercise discretion that’s nobody else’s business – between careers and families, anyone who wants to keep their mask on has not only that right but an obligation to anyone who might be hurt by the truth – stop opinionating about things that are none of your phucking business, aceholes!!
I wouldn’t tell my story with details without clearing it with my two partners in crime, and they are not readily available – I’m not inclined to fly to Alaska and who-knows-where-else to get disclaimers even if Licky provided frequent flier miles for the testimony – you guys either think everything is as simple as your minds or just don’t respect the code of the streets: no running off at the mouth about other people’s business – anyone who thinks my behavior is stupid or psychotic has a mighty damn narrow focus
WBraun

climber
Jul 19, 2012 - 09:28pm PT
sidmo -- "anyone who thinks my behavior is stupid or psychotic ...."

See how stupid you are.

We don't even need to think at all.

Every post you make here you keep telling us you're stupid and psychotic.

God you're stupid ......
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Jul 19, 2012 - 09:33pm PT
and psychotic. . .
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 19, 2012 - 09:45pm PT
braunsweiger, who rattled your cage before i came along? i only wish i could be as smart as you, i mean your command of the language is impressive as heck - being such a god i guess you do most of your climbing on mt. olympus - say hello to zeus for me
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 19, 2012 - 10:39pm PT
HERE'S SOME MORE FROM THE MORON (this time flaming on FATRAD instead of me) WHO CALLS HIMSELF:
"WBraun
climber
Jul 16, 2012 - 06:23pm PT
You're all morons.
Every village has it's color characters.
He was colorful and you idiots couldn't just ignore him when he says sh!t.
That means you're weaklings.
Pussies ...... "

Wow braunwurst – this post you wrote contradicts what you post about me:

“you idiots couldn't just ignore him when he says sh!t. That means you're weaklings. Pussies ...... ”

So, since that pretty much describes your histrionics railing on me does that make you a . . . PUSSY?

YEAH I THOUGHT SO, YOU HIPPIECRITE – WHAT A PHUCKIN PHONY YOU TURNED OUT TO BE – STICK ANOTHER TAMPON UP YOUR SNATCH ASSBITE - TAKE YOUR CHICKENSHYT GOSSIP BACK TO THE LAUNDROMAT AND CLUCK OFF WITH YOUR OTHER RAGGY HENS

have you ever posted without attacking?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 19, 2012 - 11:42pm PT
look cosmo, it seems like you get around, online at least - nothing wrong there - but this braun guy has it in for me, so when i saw he was blasting fatrad too, well i guess i got jealous (just kidding, all you literalists)- i mean, where is his hate when i'm not around? on the other thread- i suppose - i've been busting licky's chops since he dissed me for no purpose years ago - if you dont like it, or braun or anybody else, whats so hard about mousing down to another post? it's easier than replying, so it's hard to fathom how you or anyone else could be put out - i've responded to those who blast me - i never said shyt about a poster that didnt mention me, which makes me wonder about your motive - why cant you thread critics just move on to another post, or thread, or website . . . or read a book even? i don't get it - did all you guys stop climbing when you got too old and can't find another activity to entertain you? jeez what a bore - yeah, i tore up my knee skiing at tahoe and havent climbed since, but i do other stuff - i got involved here because i wanted to help - licky got weird and things got weirder - but so what? if you dont dig it, dont read it - or blast me, i dont really care - but i admit i was stoked to find out that braun was indeed the jerk i had him figured for - but you've been a stranger here - how did you get so riled so fast? when i climbed i had coiled ropes on my shoulders, you guys have chips on yours
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jul 19, 2012 - 11:52pm PT
Get back on the topic all y'all.

The real nooz is that Willard "Mutt" Romney started Bane Capital with seed [pun, I'll take it] money he obtained from his share of the weed that was hydroponically cultivated in Lake Merced. Of course, he didn't do any physcial work, he was the "brains" of the operation.

Check Willard's start with Bane. 1977.
Check plane crash date. 1977.



WBraun

climber
Jul 20, 2012 - 12:00am PT
sidmo -- "so when i saw he was blasting fatrad too"

LOL

You really are stupid and you keep proving it.

I was one of the only guys sticking up for fattrad.

I was calling all the guys bad mouthing fattrad morons.

And I got flamed for doing that.

I told you are the most stupid fool in history on this forum here ......

zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jul 20, 2012 - 12:07am PT
1500th post. Is that a landmark? One of the great lines from the 1960's Black Power days:


I dismiss you fool!

Kinda says it all in five short words. Is anybody counting?
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jul 20, 2012 - 12:14am PT
OK one last thought.

If the ST forum is the yardstick by which you measure your life, then it's about time for a new ruler.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 20, 2012 - 12:58am PT
falllliiinngg asssllleeeeeppppp, zzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

BAN ME PLEASE
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 20, 2012 - 01:06am PT
C'MON COSMO, BraunW, any other brainiac haters out there

I'M THE LONE STRANGER

BAN ME ALREADY BOSSMAN

like i said, you're boring me to sleep
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jul 20, 2012 - 08:58am PT
The fight is not interesting. Hey, I just realized that some of the legends about this incident describe mj soaked in jet fuel that had a bad smell. How could this be, if they were submerged in water first? I would think the lake would have diluted any jet fuel. I'll bet that detail is not accurate.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 20, 2012 - 10:26am PT
No way the marahoochie was soaked in jet fuel primarily because it was a
gasoline powered aircraft. What gets you 'higher' jet fuel or high octane
av-gas?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 20, 2012 - 12:12pm PT
ASKED AND ANSWERED, as they say in court

I can’t tell who is informed, who is not, and who is experienced – for those of you who are inclined to read and learn, let’s stipulate once and for all the truth behind the “debate” over the issue of tainted pot from the plane. Licky, pay attention for a change.

Obviously a prop-driven plane carried no jet fuel – that misnomer was a remnant of the jet/space age rhetoric that kids growing up in the sixties were accustomed to hearing. So, airplane fuel became jet fuel in name only – get over that detail and concentrate on the issue. SOME of the weed was soaked in something flammable. Anyone who disputes that fact was not there and knows nothing firsthand or even secondhand. Some of it was not tainted, and the first people to make it up to the lake certainly grabbed most of that. Even those good buds were not as good as the pot that was already available through the black market. As for the plane weed, some joints caught fire while being smoked,. Some of the weed had a pungent and acrid aroma in the bag that disapated somewhat when left out in the air – it smelled like a gas station. The only people who actually smoked the weed were either folks who had not figured it out yet or those who either had access to a lot of it or knew someone who did, and possessed some of the untainted “centerbale” product, which was not nearly as bad. After a while, by late spring at least, offers of plane weed were greeted with scorn and derision - or hacking coughs if accepted. THOSE ARE FACTS, AND CANNOT BE RATIONALLY DISCOUNTED BY SKEPTICS WHO WEREN’T THERE OR WERE BARELY BORN IN 1977. Plane weed mostly sucked and many people sold it knowing full well that it was dangerous at worst and sub-par at best. I won’t speculate about their consciences or ethics, or even good or bad karma associated with spreading poison. Good pot was readily available to reasonably well-connected users, mostly gold Columbian and Thai sticks. Many people unloaded their plane weed in cities like San Francisco, San Jose, Los Angeles and even Fresno to unsuspecting customers. Subterfuge was sometimes employed, centerbale buds used as sample in a bait-and-switch con. A lot of the local customers turned out to be recent arrivals – the annual Y.P.&C.Co. hiring frenzy ramped up in early April and lasted through Memorial Day, augmented after final exams and graduation ended in colleges everywhere. Those new arrivals knew little to nothing about where to get pot, or where the pot they bought came from. By mid-summer everyone was hip, and anyone still pushing plane weed faced serious competition from regular dealers “smuggling” drugs into the park from elsewhere. Anyone smoking lots of plane weed by that time generally had respiratory problems.
NOW THOSE ARE THE FACTS – as much as you haters want to attack me and my message if you don’t agree I have to respectfully ask: “were you there?”

And if not, are you even over 50? You’d have to be that old to have been even a teen at the time. To be legally living and working in the park you’d have to be at least 53 or so now. I’m no math major, but that’s roughly accurate. I may be wrong, but I’m guessing that many of the most critical posters on this thread are too young to possibly know what the phuck they’re talking about when it comes to the plane. Licky certainly falls into that category. Younger critics need to temper your comments about those posters you do not know.
Bravo

Social climber
The Deli
Jul 20, 2012 - 02:13pm PT
Had picked up a hitchhhiker in Tahoe recently who was on a hiking trip near Merced Lake when the plane went down in '77 and rescuers & opportunists began hiking back & forth from the area. He and his buddy abandoned their goals and gear to load their packs full of goodies! He never returned for the gear, as he felt well compensated
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jul 20, 2012 - 02:15pm PT
Sidmo,

Make that two people that think you are the most stupid fool in history on this forum.

Fuel sets on top of water, a thin layer of film. When the first bags were pulled the laden fuel soaked into the pot.

Your name isn’t Glen Paul is it? Are the two people that you need to get permission from is it the DEA protection unit that changed your identity.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 20, 2012 - 04:02pm PT
OUCH!!! SHANGHAIED AGIN!!!!!

You’re stupid as Licky if you think you can keep accusing me of being someone I’m not

Look, Glen Paul wasn’t even Glen Paul, you moron – his real name was (and still is unless he changed it or someone caught up with his sorry ass) Glen FITZWATER for the phucking record, if you’re keeping a record of narc rangers – I knew him before Yosemite – he was the one that first convinced me to go there, back in high school – wrote me my first wilderness permit – when he started narking out people I liked (one of whom has been referenced here on the thread, no clues when, but earlier) I called him on it and he chickenshitted out – if you remember him threatening to kick someone’s ass, dig deep for a clue as to my identity – he huffed and puffed and yet every time I actually ran into him he acted sheepish and left immediately – so NO, YOU DUMBASS SHANGHAI – I’M NOT A NARC RANGER AND I’M NOT A CHAINSAW – AND IF YOU WERE AROUND BACK THEN YOU’D KNOW MORE THAN YOU KNOW, AND YOU DON’T SEEM TO KNOW SHYT
When are you young wannabees gonna stop posturing? If you were around you’d know how full of shyt you are, unless you were some geek fringe player who wasn’t hip in a very exclusive community – we wouldn’t have let a dweeb like you hang out back then, more likely you were a face in the crowd of 5.8 climbers trying to latch onto a scene that you never understood nor had any insider access to – if you’re “lost in shanghai” now, you were lost in Yosemite then – or maybe San Jose (were you a weekend warrior?) You phuckin dweeb, shut the phuck up already and leave people who know what the phuck happened alone
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jul 20, 2012 - 08:11pm PT
Glen was a dumbass, usually dumbass’s hang around together so you knew him well. Also remember he would make up things as well besides stealing, write bad checks; just to name a few and was never prosecuted.

You have not posted one thing about this adventure, pretty much copying or hearsay that the ones that were there. Ok! so you were there, give this thread one thing, just one but still waiting on your journalistic credits or writings on other subjects other thinking that you being the only source to this story.

Have you written anything about being a loser? We already know how big a cry baby you are. Maybe children’s books?

Yes, still stupid and dumb which you were running around one dumbass [Glen] answerers why.

Reason you keep coming back and respond is you are looking for attention. You say ZZZZZZZZ and boring; then don’t open the thread stupid. But that is what stupid people do because they are dumb.

By the way if you do need to rent a jet: Hawker 400XP, Hawker 800XP, Challenger 300, Citation X and Gulfstreams. Go to Jets.com and ask for Tony and give him my name, he will give you a discount plus Point to Point pricing... NO additional fuel surcharges, overnights or repositioning charges!
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jul 20, 2012 - 08:20pm PT
Cool! Wonder if Tony would do direct flights to Carepa, the closest airport to me. Just recently the Colombian National Police seized a drug trafficker's airplane, but the guy stole it back from where it was held at this airport, and successfully flew away.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jul 20, 2012 - 08:28pm PT
Sid, are you related to Rox? Or maybe you guys share a brain?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 20, 2012 - 10:53pm PT
OUCH!!! SHANGHAIED AGIN!!!!!
Sounds like you were the one hanging with glen whatever-his-name-was – I knew him in hi school and ditched him soon after, in Yosemite . . .after he turned. He wasn’t so bad earlier, maybe because he didn’t sport the ranger badge. I guess you had to know him in the valley, which meant you were the dweeb I said you must have been. Loser. When did you show up, ’76? What were you then, like eighteen and a half? Tried to run with cool older guys and wound up getting burned by glen fitz-paul? Loser. Did ya get a little plane weed did ya? Wow, that must have been like the most coolest thing ever, huh? Even if it hurt your lungs, hey, it was free, right? Loser. Thought anyone who you didn’t see the day you were there never went? Never made it past the village store, so anyone from the east side of the valley must not have been cool like you, huh? Loser. Could you drink at the mt. room, or did they get hip to your fake ID? Loser. Shanghai, you bore me, and if anyone finds your crap interesting, then good for you and yours. Loser. Why would anyone give out anything because you were dissing them? Another loser. Eat shyt shanghai, just like something you scrounged off a tray in the lodge caf . . . before you got all rich and stuff after the plane – or were you on the curry co. meal plan? Loser. Didja get the curry hurries?

and no, i'm not rox, chainsaw, glenpaul or related - you guys crack me up, do you watch game shows too?
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jul 20, 2012 - 11:05pm PT
Not that anyone is counting sid, but you're up to 128 posts on this thread. Do you like anything in life? What song are you listening to right now?

Mama told me not to come
That ain't no way to have fun, son




sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 21, 2012 - 12:45am PT
dont worry ZB - i keep a lot of screens open when i'm working- multitasking, or ADD maybe I dont know - when i check this thread or post, i'm really just killing time . . .ok, procrastinating - i really dont have much invested here, if it seems like i do , well, its not a big part of my day - i post more on rainy days, sorry you guys are in a drought
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jul 21, 2012 - 01:11am PT
^good to hear. I've been told that I waste too much time hereabouts, but that it appears that I enjoy what I'm doing.

ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
bouldering
Jul 21, 2012 - 01:17am PT
Was wondering if the lake has ever been scuba-dived by civilians, not to find more pot perse, but for the hell of it. Would seem a good chapter idea for an author too.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 21, 2012 - 01:30am PT
Happy Frik'n Friday Night all...

Had dinner with Pam, the pilot's wife last night. More stories and some photos from their old days. Him in Viet Nam as a pilot. Great stuff.

Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 21, 2012 - 03:38am PT
Well like I've said many times. Sidmo, I don't think you were ever up at the lake. You have nothing to offer up.
And, I don't think you have ever writen a published piece. Can't put it any tighter than that can I?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 21, 2012 - 08:53am PT
So what? You had dinner with the widow, so you obviously know everything. She must be pleased with the glacial pace of your project.We're all so proud of your judgement and insight. Good lick Lucky, you’re gonna need it.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jul 21, 2012 - 05:59pm PT
uh ric. you mispelled written as writen. I've offered proofreading and editorial assistance in the past. I hope you're working the Howlin' Wolf/blues angle like I suggested.

and

In 1977 a plane loaded with dope crashed into Lower Merced Pass Lake.

1. Marijuana (which I believe in my heart to be the cargo) is not dope.
2. Is it being said that it was dope to transport marijuana in the late '70's?
3. Dopey was actually the smartest of the seven dwarves.
4. Snow White on the other hand is considered by many to be good dope.
5. I believe that it is alleged that:

1. A plane crashed
2. It had a cargo, or colloquially, it was loaded
3. The plane landed on or crashed in a lake
4. That lake was not Lake Crowley as far as can be ascertained
5. But, more probably, was Lower Merced Pass Lake (herein 'Lake')
6. A senior pass was not then, and is not now, required to visit Lake
7. Many seniors, juniors, stonemasters, allegedly visited Lake
8. Along came Jones and emptied the trash, then
9. Everybody made it on down to The Million Dollar Bash

Excuse me, just let me play my guitar for a minute while I procrastinate.

That's the abridged version, stay tuned for the august August, 2012 release of the book.



Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jul 21, 2012 - 07:14pm PT
I'm still having trouble with the airplane fuel/gasoline in the lake being enough to contaminate the mj, not only to leave a smell, but to poison people and give them a headache - normally when gas evaporates there isn't much of anything left. It's just a strange detail that doesn't add up for me.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2012 - 03:14am PT
Good to see you again Bullwinkle. Man, I gotta go to that place again. The
enchiladas were fantastic! Keep in touch.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2012 - 01:20am PT
Warbler..the plane was upside down in the deep end of the pool. Any dope that floated to the surface sat there until guys like sidmo plucked them out. Of course sidmo waited until the coast was clear to run up and grab his stash. The wait time resulted in the dope absorbing the fuel/oil. But then sidmo can speak to this. I'm just a third party. He claims to know all about what went on up there. Stay tuned for his next post.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jul 27, 2012 - 10:44am PT
I would leave out the part about people getting poisoned from the gasoline residue. It doesn't make sense. They used to spray paraquat on marijuana back then. I wonder if that's what made people sick?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 27, 2012 - 11:25am PT
Don Paul, smoking gasoline could be very detrimental to your health. Just
inhaling the fumes is deemed dangerous. Even late into the flight the Howard
should have had a couple hundred gallons left in the tanks.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jul 27, 2012 - 11:30am PT
Months later, most of the gasoline would have evaporated.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 27, 2012 - 11:34am PT
Hmmm, under the ice in the cold I'm thinking not so much plus the residue
is still gonna be there. But I'm not a chemist.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jul 27, 2012 - 11:50am PT
You could be right Reilly, and apparently there are people would attest to the contamination. I think sidmo said the weed would actually catch on fire because of the residual gasoline. Take a rag in your garage and soak it in gasoline. Leave it on the floor and come back a couple days later. Now put a match to it and see if there's any gas left. I havent tried this but I expect it would have all evaporated.
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Jul 27, 2012 - 12:08pm PT
As the Warbler said, Tests were done. . .Some of the Weed had Fuel still in it, you could taste it and sometimes the Joint would Flare up when hit.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 30, 2012 - 01:28am PT
That’s right Lick, you’re a third party so you don’t know shyt – and what’s all this “waited until the coast was clear” crap about? Are you sneering at anyone who was careful? Who are you to sneer Licky, have you done anything even remotely dangerous? Have you even done a risky climb? And if you're waiting for guys to finish debating whether plane joints spontaneously combusted into flame while being toked, well then you’re just too stupid to know when the truth hits you upside the head. Just keep wasting your time belaboring the obvious and that book you’re supposedly writing will remain as elusive as your good judgment. Your ignorance remains as your greatest obstacle.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jul 30, 2012 - 04:03pm PT
Hey! It must have finally have rained or is.

Sidmo; Your ignorance/stupidity remains as your greatest asset.
Oh! No OUCH!!!!! SHANGHAID AGIN!!!!!!!!

Don’t drink Gin. Ever play for Curry on their baseball games since you were a MCA company man. For sure never made it to the Camp 4 and Park Rangers games. The good ones.

Edit: Let’s see: No shyt head what a DUMBASS, obviously know everything, DUMBASS not a MCR man i "i" was ……….. but will let you finish it in your small make-believe world.

And since you are wasting Rick's time as well as mine you should be happy since you just don’t get it; so bye bye, so long take it easy, write, send a postcard, UPS, fax, Fedex, email, imail, youmail. no responds from me.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jul 30, 2012 - 07:08pm PT
Plane weed was unpleasant AT the time
I don’t remember anyone concerned with longterm dangers
you’d have to actually smoke it to damage your body,
and none of us did because it smelled bad, tasted bad and
flamed on occasionally – maybe it was passed around those
C4 baseball games, I can’t say – I didn’t go to the valley
to play ball, or smoke shytty weed
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jul 30, 2012 - 08:10pm PT
I've read about "bales" of weed. What was the stuff wrapped in? I believe airplane fuel is highly toxic no matter how one comes into contact with it, though inhaling (isn't that huffing) or smoking would be probably worse that just washing your hands in it.


I found this up at the lake in 2003, but didn't think it was important enough at the time to notify anyone.


If you've ever brushed your teeth with Pepsodent, you'll sometimes take to wondering where the yellow went.



AE

climber
Boulder, CO
Aug 1, 2012 - 07:15pm PT
Just ran across this thread, or should I call it more of a Trans-Atlantic Cable?
Is there a Guinness Record for most posts/ longest timeline with new posts ongoing? Let's go for it!
Forget "Seven Years in Tibet" - try 7 years (wasted) in online typing exercises,instead of oh, maybe a PhD or Med School?
Second-generation posters are now carrying on the tradition their parents began, replying in good faith to Mr. Licky.
Statutes of limitations have run out for most crimes committed after posting to this thread - never mind the original crash and correlated activities.
In this time, Jon Krakauer has actually written a book that did NOT begin with "Into..."
Now, I fear the worst - Licky is he, a nom de plume, and yes, the book and feature film to star Sean Penn as Yabo, Danny Trejo as Bridwell (Fear His Wrath)will be titled ... (Oh, the Horror, wait for it...)
"Into Thin Ice"
Face the facts - sadly, noone except old climbers give a rat's ass about a 35 year old drug plane crash, which is why Jeff and John Long's tales were transmogrified into unrecognizable pulp fantasy starring Sly as the world's only shirtless ice climber.
It would appear that had your offer been genuine, and had you actually had any writing credentials, this all would have come together in print by now. The book would be shorter than the printout of this thread, perhaps containing some more specific factual details but in all likelihood less entertaining.
As Tony Soprano might have said, "Fugeddaboudit".
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Aug 2, 2012 - 12:12am PT
yeah that must have been when the lens popped out of my glasses on the arrow - it dropped, and dropped and . . . well call me col. klink
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Aug 2, 2012 - 12:30am PT
sadly, noone except old climbers give a rat's ass about a 35 year old drug plane crash, which is why Jeff and John Long's tales were transmogrified into unrecognizable pulp fantasy starring Sly as the world's only shirtless ice climber.

I always thought Sly was underappreciated, maybe that's why he's living in his car in LA. Aren't we all everyday people?

A 35-year old plane crashing is, in and of itself, interesting. They are supposed to be taken out of service before then.

Are we talking about Peter Noone here? He perhaps was overappreciated?

Has anyone ever seen a hermetically sealed rat's ass?

Wasn't this guy told to quit thinking about it and write something?


translating loosely

"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Aug 2, 2012 - 12:39am PT
^Actually in the drug smuggling world 10 years is the rule while in bad economic times some might stretch it out to 30-35 (if the pilots are still alive and the 'organization' is still in business).

I guess the real question and one implicit in ric's book, is whether drugs and drug smuggling are good for people and society. Nietzsche on the other hand might be asking the same about sex and syphilis.

Nietzche also addressed eternal recurrence, which is the nature of this thread and which will be addressed in coming issues.

"I drove my Chevy to the levy, but the levy was dry"
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 2, 2012 - 01:02am PT
I'm confused.

The SuperTopo mantra.
BooYah

Social climber
Ely, Nv
Aug 2, 2012 - 01:07am PT
This years Smugglers Convention will be held in a secret location.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 2, 2012 - 02:00am PT
My only regret about this thread is the fact that it rolled over to a new page. Now when I click "last page" I will not see that hilarious picture of Sidmo choking his chicken in front of ST.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Aug 2, 2012 - 03:23am PT
Just ran across this thread, or should I call it more of a Trans-Atlantic Cable?
Is there a Guinness Record for most posts/ longest timeline with new posts ongoing? Let's go for it!
Forget "Seven Years in Tibet" - try 7 years (wasted) in online typing exercises,instead of oh, maybe a PhD or Med School?
Second-generation posters are now carrying on the tradition their parents began, replying in good faith to Mr. Licky.
Statutes of limitations have run out for most crimes committed after posting to this thread - never mind the original crash and correlated activities.
In this time, Jon Krakauer has actually written a book that did NOT begin with "Into..."
Now, I fear the worst - Licky is he, a nom de plume, and yes, the book and feature film to star Sean Penn as Yabo, Danny Trejo as Bridwell (Fear His Wrath)will be titled ... (Oh, the Horror, wait for it...)
"Into Thin Ice"
Face the facts - sadly, noone except old climbers give a rat's ass about a 35 year old drug plane crash, which is why Jeff and John Long's tales were transmogrified into unrecognizable pulp fantasy starring Sly as the world's only shirtless ice climber.
It would appear that had your offer been genuine, and had you actually had any writing credentials, this all would have come together in print by now. The book would be shorter than the printout of this thread, perhaps containing some more specific factual details but in all likelihood less entertaining.
As Tony Soprano might have said, "Fugeddaboudit".

Word.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Aug 2, 2012 - 08:23am PT
it's sly stone that's living in his car, not sly stallone
it's all about those three letters, a-l-l

and that's not me in that photo - i have a laptop and my
girlfriend's a brunette - did ya think i'd skrew a dumb blonde?

besides, if you click on "show all" you can see the hot blonde and more
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 3, 2012 - 02:08am PT
I've just spent the last hour going over all of sidmo's posts. I'm hard pressed to find a software program that could flow chart his ramble/rants. He claims to have not been up to the lake, not have brought down the dope,and not sold any of it, and yet he claims to have been in the thick of things. He rants that I'm nothing but third hand info (but of course, all of my info comes from interviewing those that were). In his emails to me he supports my effort.

Sidmo...are you ok?
BooYah

Social climber
Ely, Nv
Aug 3, 2012 - 02:13am PT
What exactly happens when 1 troll calls out another?
Mutual annihilation, like opposite particles?
Curiouser & curiouser, quoth Alice.
labrat

Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
Aug 3, 2012 - 03:48am PT
Just checking in on when the book will be published....:?
Any idea Licky?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Aug 3, 2012 - 10:35am PT
Licky you are a moron

I never confirmed anything to you and won’t as long as you act like an ass, and I don’t have to – I’m under no obligation to you to confirm or deny – if you don’t think I know anything fine – I don’t care – I stopped wanting to help you years ago, because you simply don’t deserve help – if you think I was there, not there, or not alive it just don’t matter to me – I enjoy seeing you frustrated by a process that you do not respect enough to approach with humility and respect – you keep obsessing over details that are irrelevant and immaterial, and promote debate over ridiculous topics like whether or not plane joints spontaneously flamed, as if there was any debate among actual participants – there is more hearsay promoted on this thread than fact, and if you think you know more than guys who were in on the action then all I can say is that you are delusional and in love with yourself a bit too much – no one appointed you lord protector over the truth, as much as you would like to think that “writing a book” makes your opinion sacrosanct, anybody can claim to be a writer . . . I mean, you question my credentials and you have no idea whether you’re right or wrong – I have good reasons not to confirm anything to you, and if you don’t like that then you shouldn’t have acted so hostile – you could stop flaming anytime but for some reason you get a kick out of attacking me – I’m just a distraction to you, and could easily help you with this project but I choose not to – again, because you act like an ass – if it helps you to be in denial of your inability to coax info out of a potential source, so be it – you are a moron
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Aug 3, 2012 - 12:41pm PT
I find your claim that "smugglers" only fly 10 year old or newer planes to be quite unbelievable.

I find it unbelievable that anyone would doubt such a spurious claim.

While not as much comes in via plane as in the old days, back then you could take a hike down to smugglers gulch and observe all the relatively newer (i.e. less than 10 year old) planes in action.

I know from personal conversation that the border swimmers (generally less than 25 pounds per load) who founded the Coronado Company would only use their (Churchill) fins for 6 months before retiring them. Additionally, the border hikers (as much as 50 pounds per backpack) rarely wore the same pair of boots on successive excursions, lest they become traceable through their unique (possibly as individualized as your DNA profile) Vibram souls.

Don't get me started on how many times surboards, VW buses, and Porsches traveled the circuit before ending up in the scrap heap.

The one thing I do not know is, though carried much less frequently BITD, what the life cycle of various guns was/is?



zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Aug 3, 2012 - 12:50pm PT
it's sly stone that's living in his car, not sly stallone

Is there any evidence that Sly Stone is not Sly Stallone and/or vice versa? Have you ever seen them both in a room at the same time?

I thought so. Don't let the clever disguises fool you. This is the same guy for sure.



And then he said hi, like a spider said to Sly jump right ahead in this web (abyss).

Oh yeah, and ric, any news on how the book is coming along?

"you just keep me hanging on"
"hang on Sloopy, hang on"
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 3, 2012 - 08:23pm PT
As I've said before sidmo..you offer no stories, views, experience, or writing skills. God help us if you'd use your research skills to find info that could be used. The troll gets smacked. Come on back sailor
WBraun

climber
Aug 3, 2012 - 08:33pm PT
Sidmo is a glutton for punishment.

He's so stupid he punishes his own self.

No one else is doing it here.

Dumbest jackass ever.

He's so stupid he doesn't even realize we're all laughing at him for his stupidity .......
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 3, 2012 - 09:14pm PT
WB..the first that comes to mind is self flagellation
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Aug 3, 2012 - 10:01pm PT
I've stayed out of this one but if anyone doubts that there was av gas mixed in the hooch - rest assured that there was. Especially when huffed in a corn cob pipe, which I was abusing a lot back in those day - you'd go to burn it with the Bic lighter and a regular flame would leap off the hooch, like a small explosion. Don't much care who believes it but anyone who ended up with such stash remembers this well. That stuff was nasty. And strong . . .
JL
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 3, 2012 - 10:29pm PT
Wait a minute sidmo..you said you never smoked it, never sold it...but now you are describing its affects. How so? Ya know what's interesting...I've found someone else refering to a "corn cob pipe"....I have to follow that lead. This ought to be a very interesting connection...Ya think "sidmo"?
WBraun

climber
Aug 3, 2012 - 10:32pm PT
We all know about what the weed from lake was like.

There's no problem there.

Actually heh heh the original players are all here.

It's the stupid idiotic rants of sidmo against licky that makes him so stupid.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Aug 3, 2012 - 10:51pm PT
trollin on

Z you rock – when I was on dead tour, I only flew in new planes, unless I was thumbing and then I changed on-ramps from show to show to spread my fingerprints around

Licky you are so moronic – do you think I never tried it? Like others, I figured it out . . . that it was flammable . . . after a few Js . . . and didn’t smoke it no more . . . you phuckin moron . . . quit trying to understand - you’re too square to get it and too stupid to know – “You ain’t gonna learn what you don’t wanna know” – you’re a moron

Are you all laughing now? good
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 3, 2012 - 10:56pm PT
Sidmo..I've interviewed WB, JL, BP, VC, DF, and many of those that made their way up to the lake. All have been very straight forward with their stories. Only sidmo has been the elusive one that can't seem to get the story straight or tell it like it was. So sidmo, why can't you come forward with your identity like the others have? I'm not using names, but at least you ought to have the balls to step up to the plate and let everyone know who you are before....before...before it is figured out who you are. Be rest assured, I have another goal. Sidmo, I need...for the book, to have a chapter about people like you and Chainsaw. It'll make people shake their heads and ask why the f*#k did this guy walk out of the woods and expose himself for the fool that he is? JS
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Aug 4, 2012 - 01:47am PT
Well:

That stuff was nasty. And strong . . .

Kinda what you'd expect of airplane fuel, no?

reminds me ... this starts out as a farmer's daughter yarn, but takes a turn where the intrepid traveler, has to go out back and get papa's permission to spend the night. He finds the farmer lifting his herd[?] of pigs up one by one, to chomp on apples on the proverbially apple tree. Stunned, he asks of the farmer, isn't that an incredible waste of time. To which the farmer replies, 'time, what's time to a pig"?

Anyway, I've been chastened for wasting so much time reading and posting on this thread. To which all I can think to say is

time, what's time to a dumb jackass, or for that matter a smart one

I vote for a (hopefully televised) confrontation of ric and sid right about the time the book is released (it is coming soon, right?)

Good Night Irene, you'll see me in your dreams.

Sleep tight and maybe tomorrow night we'll retell the story of Jack LaLanne's nortorious towing of nearly a ton of, uncontaminated, hash oil soaked weed across the border at the TJ sloughs in a leaky old rowboat. No Sheeit [name redacted] got it on film.

Jack as he exits water after being busted by Jim Hicks.





sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Aug 4, 2012 - 02:44am PT
What? I thought I WAS Chainsaw, you moron. The definition of insanity, it has been said, is to repeat the same action while expecting different results. Licky, you have tried shaming and harassing me, yet I continue to keep my own confidence. And yet you continue, despite the fact that I’ve made it perfectly clear that I have no intention of rewarding your inappropriate behavior . . . unless you apologize for your rude demeanor.
I might be enticed to share my slice of the story but see absolutely no incentive to . . . and that window is nearly closed. The strange thing is that I don’t want anything beneficial or glorifying – I just want you to change your abusive tone and apologize . . . or not. I don’t care. But without honest contrition I remain uncompelled to help you at all.
I entertain myself watching you founder. Call me a troll if you like, or stupid, or worse. The opinions of you and your sycophants mean little to me. I kill time, as I’ve said before, clocking your silly little thread and monitoring your incredible lack of progress on your “book” - since you claim to parse my posts you should know that. The story obviously interests me enough to watch the train wreck as it progresses.
You seem to think that I need to unload, or come clean with you but won’t for some reason. Well, I don’t need nor particularly want to unload because you’re a jerk. It’s like expecting me to give a bum some spare change while he’s flipping me off. Not about to happen. Not even if your tough talking friends continue berate me on your cliquish little thread. Why should I? You’re a jerk so why should I want to help you? You’d have more info for your little book if you were nicer, at least my story . . . perhaps others would be inclined to speak up.
If you think you’ve got enough to go to print then close the thread and publish already. I believe you’re stalling. I think, as I’ve said before, that you’ve found yourself entangled in a writing project that’s gotten unwieldy, and become too complicated to complete. I offered to help – for free – and got blistered for being so presumptuous. That was the first clue I got as to your true personality. Needless to say, I found your responses unnecessarily rude.
I have concerns about your motivation and affinity for law enforcement – we weren’t exactly eagle scouts back in ’77. I thought about finding my compadres and securing their permission to tell our tale, citing the probable theory about the statutes of limitations expiring, but soon soured on you as a person. I decided that I’d wait until you realized the error of your ways and adopted a professional approach. Now, years later, it has become clear that you have no interest in conducting research in a professional, analytical and comprehensive manner . . . probably because you can’t. You can’t finish the book for the same reason.
You’re an amateur writer – or not even up to that level. You have preconceived notions of the truth, and, you cherry-pick data to suit your literary agenda. So much of what you do and how you do it reeks of amateurism that it is a wonder that you would even embark on such an unlikely journey - which leads me wonder about ulterior motives that you may have. I’ve written, published and worked with a few writers, more than a few actually, and you are . . . well, different, to be gracious. Let WB and the other haters pile on, if I worried about currying favor with them I’d just email you personally. No, I’d rather any readers to realize that, while I might be a troll, I am legitimately asking how it is that you expect to be treated as a professional writer while taking forever to post a chapter or even a paragraph . . . how many years is it now? Close it out for your own sake Licky. Anything that is as elusive as the book is to you might not be worth pursuing at all. You’re like the dog chasing the car – what will you do if you catch it?
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Aug 4, 2012 - 02:50am PT
Skidmark, I'm begging you to get the Therapy you need.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Aug 4, 2012 - 02:52am PT
please pudwinkle - do you think anyone thinks you care? do you think anyone cares? what you think, that is
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Aug 4, 2012 - 03:02am PT
What Bullwinkle said!

+1
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Aug 4, 2012 - 03:08am PT
provin me right boys - just keep piling on, lickylikers
Baa Baa Baa


and to licky: learn to use the Ellipsis - they're not just random dots on a page
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 4, 2012 - 03:51am PT
Damn, I think I need therapy after reading skids latest rant.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Aug 4, 2012 - 07:23am PT
Any of you that can’t or won’t see through Licky’s façade need therapy
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 4, 2012 - 06:58pm PT
Sidmo, I need...for the book, to have a chapter about people like you and Chainsaw.

Every Circus needs a side show
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Aug 4, 2012 - 07:59pm PT
Werner was hauling loads from the plane? What's the world coming to. zBrown you make an excellent point about Nietzsche, I think nore climbers should know about him and that Nietzsche would fully approve of the dirtbag lifestyle. His anti-religion comments get the most attention, but he was really all about experiencing life to its fullest.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Aug 4, 2012 - 09:24pm PT
A fool will always end up stepping in their own Sh^t.

Sad to see someone not finishing high school and ending up cleaning toilets and maybe writing for comic books but you still have not said which ones Sidmo.
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Aug 4, 2012 - 09:27pm PT
T Hocking,

Welcome to SuperTopo!
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 4, 2012 - 10:55pm PT
T Hocking, welcome aboard - next time you want to PO the wifey, start reading the Wings of Steel thread, another time killer, not quite up to this threads drama, but great reading.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/72849/Wings-of-Steel

edit: It actually started 4 days before this thread and is twice as long
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Aug 5, 2012 - 12:35am PT
^Is there an abridged version or Cliff Notes?

adm

Sport climber
england
Aug 14, 2012 - 12:19pm PT
is this book still being wrote, i read about this years ago i think this was the book.
adam


http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=F8Pk9pECmZ0C&pg=PA92&lpg=PA92&dq=yosemite+national+park+drug+plane&source=bl&ots=Q6jvVZltcu&sig=7JbzV6w-s-oAHV-9y28pqi04mc8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=F3UqUPuXG8rF0QXB-4DgDA&ved=0CF8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=yosemite%20national%20park%20drug%20plane&f=false
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Aug 14, 2012 - 12:22pm PT
Yes, it's being written (I think).

Should be ready in time for us all to drool on the pages, in the old folks home.....
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Aug 14, 2012 - 01:28pm PT
hey hey (there say) ric -

Which stretch are you in now, seventh inning or final?

Just askin', but survival is the crux of the matter. Some folks could die.

Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2012 - 06:24pm PT
Adam, If you get a chance, you ought to buy that book. Some of the claims by the authors are so far fetched that you have to wonder about the facts in the other stories as well. If I wrote using made up facts like those two did I'd just be putting out another novel. Enough of those out there already.

I have sent an email to the two authors asking them where they got their info....of course they haven't responded.

Ya see guys, this is the kind of crap that sidmo would rather have published rather than make sure its true. Imagine if one of the climbers posted a beta on a piece of climbing gear that was completely bogus or even dangerous, but hell, he met everyone's expectations about when to post. Ok..maybe a reach...but you catch my drift
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Aug 15, 2012 - 11:20am PT
Catch your drift? That’s your problem, you’re drifting too far from the shore – everytime you attack me or call some other writer a liar or whatever your beef du jour is - you are wasting time that would be better spent writing . . . even if you use the F word – fiction. Are you going to teach a course on this later professor? Just write something already Lic . . . no, I think I’ll just call you Drifty
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 17, 2012 - 02:47am PT
No sidmo...you constantly bang on the wrong drum. You want me to publish right now, damn the accuracy. Then you mix it with the fact that I tell you that you weren't there and have nothing to offer which obviously ruffles your fuzzies since you have a very delicate ego. Then you bark back that since I wasn't there I can't offer up any credibility when the reality is that the credibility comes from those telling the stories. Stories which you wish you could tell in the first person, but you can't. On top of it all, you want me to apologize for slighting you. Jeebus man, you need to get a grip on this thing. Or, has this thing become you?

Wait...how about I apologize for not apologizing. Will that make it all better Sheldon? By the way, you have your super hero shirt on backward again.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Aug 17, 2012 - 07:11am PT
Randisi, you funny man!
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Aug 17, 2012 - 11:51am PT
I just checked, the first mention of a shark appeared in post number
1594 minus two.

First mention of jump was here, by none other than Licky:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=73572&msg=74408#msg74408

I hope this helps.


This is ric as a youth


What is the Olympic record in the shark-jump? I'll have to look that one up.



lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Aug 17, 2012 - 06:52pm PT
First off Rick has to collect information. Half of the people here do not understand what is involved. This is where he has his biggest problem not with himself but with some of you guys especially you Sidmo: I myself if I was in Ricky shoes would not trust one word or anything you come up with since you have nothing and again I say nothing to bring to the table.

Let’s start off what he had and has to do that makes everyone think everyone here on ST involved or not; just many that want to hear the story that “think” they could have been written and finished in a year, Ok! Two at the most.

You need to realize it takes a good amount of time who the players are, then also some who were not but who might have additional first/second hand information related to this story and even hearsay checkout or pursued since it is an investigating tool to come to the right conclusions.

When it comes to the players giving their best recollection is kind of hard because it was years ago and critical information is lost but another source fills in the space and maybe one more needed for the right answers.

Ok! So who are the players?

The plane and people involved with just the plane with this event.

The people following the two pilots and the cargo that day, also the people who knew something prior to the plane’s journey and final unknown or known destination but in this incident something different happens it crash’s. An unforeseen event.

The people that found the plane and people that had the task to protect evidence in the future.

The players that took the stash, the black book, money and any other things found in the lake that had to do with the plane which excludes you Sidmo.

Then there are the non-players [here say] hearing about it that make this a story. Books were written, articles and even a movie about the event. In the movie Cliff Hanger, Sly baby buys the rights but changes the events or takes out ”the” drugs in this equation and uses money for the story line.

A lot of misinformation since never really researched. Rumors, here say, loose facts, non- collaborating evidence just make believe based on a true story that’s missing a lot of correct information on an actual true account. History unclaimed of a true story that that has all the humor, tragic, stupid law enforcement mistakes, mishaps and fun that will make good reading [book] from any one’s point of view other than just climbers making a couple of bucks, others creating companies while others buying property or taking trips.

Now Rick comes in and starts asking and starts collecting but he is looking for the correct information tries to back it up and has and still is collecting.

So far it sounds to me he has collected a good amount from the players, government sources and additional resources. Media sources can be used as a tool, maybe the internet but they can be incorrect sources since some get the wrong information due to not following or the correcting leads or contacts. An example REX 84 [Readiness Exercise 1984 written by Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North] found on Wikipedia: the journalist who they name who summarized his findings in an article in CounterSpy has an “h” in the name take the “h” out and now you have the right person. A mistake not intentional but someone with the wrong information [wrong name] or not correcting it making it questionable.

Let’s see Rick has been investigating for what 7+ years; have a friend who was the main PI [private Investigator] for The Memphis Three, big story, movie made earlier about it, people questioned, protested until they were just released from prison recently. That took him 10 years working on that one, while at the same time currently working to get another different client off death row, that is seven years and counting. He gets paid for it. I am sure Rick has other things on his mind and tries best to finish but still gets additional info that needs checking, rechecking and collaboration and using his own funds and time to find out what actually really happened then finds a lot of dead ends and lost time; as in you Sidmo.

People often provide inaccurate and conflicting information. An example: Witnesses providing or say what they think what happened. It could be a shooting, multi car injury: who started it, which car hit first was it blue or black, “The black one hit the blue one, No!! it was the blue one that hit the black car” a lot of conflicting evidence or misinformation.

Again people often provide inaccurate and conflicting information intentionally. They may be spreading rumors or providing inaccurate information purposefully for their own reasons. Would any of these people or sources lie or mislead?

Sure but Why?

An example with this story could be getting even or revenge on a certain player against another because of jealousy or the Sh*t head banging his girlfriend/wife. Maybe the reason a business dispute between two of the players. What about one player knowing about the real amount of cash but lies saying less? Hidden stash now stolen brings suspicions and creates false rumor within the group involved,a few or with all. Paranoia being another.

So who might be lying or spreading misinformation?

The two pilots are dead so a “no” there.

How about the Government sources and documents; could be, maybe they are covering up something that they would rather be not known or embarrassments as not to be told. Corruption, payoffs?

Remember or recall MCA since they owned the park and trying to rename Yosemite Valley into MCA Yosemite Valley with plans and drawings and ideas to make it into their version of Universal style Disneyland with Multiple Hotels, private helicopters, Condos, gondola to the top of Glacier Point and additional rides.

Remember Meese as in Gov. Reagan’s “Meese” and his ties with MCA along with a few other congressmen and policy makers that followed when Reagan became President. The Board of Directors for MCA is hard to find, Meese was one of them.

What do Congressmen, and policy makers [Meese, Kissinger] for the President do with additional lobbyist’s help: Ah! Recommend, create and pass legislation to make sure MCA dreams come true.

No connection to the plane crash but did they after finding out about it try to mislead or start looking for something that could be embarrassment: The black book, "wrong mob" but any connections or names and then start doctoring the evidence with payoffs?

MCA dictated everything and anything to the Park Service back then. There was a lot of hostility between the two. Were some on MCA payroll?

Funny Meese never admitted or covered up his evolvement with Iran/Contra a few years later. Drugs what drugs? CIA and cocaine; what CIA and cocaine? Pot what pot? Mob with MCA Lew Wasserman and Jules Stein and Reagan never heard of them.

“Wasserman succeeded Stein as MCA chairman in 1969, expanding his role beyond Hollywood to Washington D.C. and every corner of the globe. During this period MCA expanded its influence to publishing (Putnam/Berkley), retail stores (Spencer’s Gifts), banking (Columbia Savings and Loan) and even Yosemite National Park, where MCA monopolized concessions. At its height, MCA had offices in 42 countries and beginning with John F. Kennedy, Wasserman became consigliere and a major contributor to Presidents Lyndon Johnson, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton and, of course, Ronald Reagan.” From the book the Last Mogul.

Recall MCA selling to the Japanese, what happened in Washington a few years back, Why the change to the current concessionare?

There are plenty of other books on MCA, look on the internet yourself but that is another story back to Rick’s.

So Rick has a lot to absorb and figure out.

Are some lying: could be for fear of retribution, some still feel the fear of going to jail?

So he has to deal with you Sidmo just some one that is a distractor and I say again, I for one would not trust one word or one thought from you or your other contacts since there is distrust in your advice.

Remember Camp Curry burning down, MCA security and staff with the help of Park service personal say due to rats eating the wiring. Usually it takes an architectural firm to come up with drawings and a set of plans [current one that is now there with the Mountain shop, small grocery store, all you eat breakfast and dinner] within 6 months then start building within or towards the end of a year. Why did MCA have a set of plans ready to go and approved less than a week?

There is nothing you can add unless you knew something about MCA; maybe you know the rats that ate at the electrical wiring causing the fire?

No! I don’t think so but funny that you were so intent on helping Rick with this project from the beginning were you looking for something he found or might find and he would share not knowing that you would be passing information to one of the sources above. Government or MCA?


Mustang

climber
From the wild, not the ranch
Aug 17, 2012 - 08:17pm PT
This whole thing stinks of a left-wing, liberal conspiracy which involved a little known overly ambitious drug use denying rhodes scholar who happened to be a young governor from a southern state and let CIA C130's full of 'contra' band land in his little back yard in the wee hours of night to be eventually rewarded for his non-meddling efforts by rising to the 'highest' political office in the land only later to be impeached by an act of congress for a certain 'stain' on a certain 'blue dress' of a twenty something year old washington intern.

Think I might just have a basis for a book,,,,,,,,,,,yaaaaawwwwwwnnnnnnnn

SIDMO is just an acronym for .......? fill in the blanks.
Chicken Skinner

Trad climber
Yosemite
Aug 17, 2012 - 10:45pm PT
Not sure if I have posted on this thread yet. I may have posted some photos of the Airplane Tee Shirts of which I have collected several. I personally am interested in the whole story and the background information. This event was going on during my first year spent in Yosemite and whether we like it or not, it did influence the climbing community and others that lived in the Park at that time. Very recently Josh Helling and Bob Hansen were backpacking in the area and decided to visit Lower Merced Pass Lake. Due to the drought the lake was very low and they found some airplane debris that is normally under water. They carried it out as part of the Facelift spirit. I drove home today and as I pulled into my driveway I saw debris in my wheelbarrow and a large piece of painted aluminum leaned against it. My first thought was that someone had overloaded the dumpster and a neighbor had thought it was me, deciding to give me another chance to load the dumpster correctly. As I pulled into the driveway further, I thought that the debris looked like pieces of an airplane and was suddenly excited. And that is what they are, after 35 years here are some pieces of the plane that Josh and Bob pulled out of the lake and removed from the High Country.Ken
Vgavinator

Social climber
Ladera Ranch, CA
Aug 19, 2012 - 02:16pm PT
Ken:
They should have waited for the Facelift. More weight for the total.
Maybe you could set up a special project to scour the area for more booty?

My only relationship to the story was very peripheral. I was on top of the first pitch at Koko ledge. Two guys came up and shared what was a very very good doobie. It did taste wierd but the THC content was very high. They said it was airplane pot and I believe it. Don't know who the climbers were, wish I did.

Licky:

A couple of questions.

On 6-12-11 you stated that toxicology tests showed JD had no drugs or alcohol in his system. That certainly contradicts several statements made by people on this forum. (6-7-11 Abenda for one) Have you been able to sort that out?

At least twice Lostinshanghi has posted a picture of a building. 11-30-10 and 5-26-11. Who, what, when, where and why?

It seems like the most important thing for you and Pam to do would be to figure out if the plane was sabotaged and by whom. Thirty years is a long time to harbor hate but if I knew someone might have killed a loved one of mine, I wouldn't stop until I found my own peace in the world. However that might be achieved.

Jeff
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2012 - 04:13pm PT
Jeff...

//A couple of questions.

On 6-12-11 you stated that toxicology tests showed JD had no drugs or alcohol in his system. That certainly contradicts several statements made by people on this forum. (6-7-11 Abenda for one) Have you been able to sort that out?//
I realize there is a large group that insists that there is everything from conspiracy to cover up. I have been told by at least two people that they were with Dorn on the night before he went on that rescue. Both say he was drinking with them. Then I have the interview with the team leader that was responsible for putting together the rescue team as well as the Ranger that was tasked with over seeing the rescue. Both say they would not have asked Dorn to join the team if they has smelled alcohol on his breath. Put those two together with the toxicology report and what is one supposed to believe?

At least twice Lostinshanghi has posted a picture of a building. 11-30-10 and 5-26-11. Who, what, when, where and why?
You'll have to have Lostinshanghi explain that one.

It seems like the most important thing for you and Pam to do would be to figure out if the plane was sabotaged and by whom. Thirty years is a long time to harbor hate but if I knew someone might have killed a loved one of mine, I wouldn't stop until I found my own peace in the world. However that might be achieved.
I have heard from at least three people within the drug group who thought the plane had been sabotaged. Since the NTSB never did an investigation there is no evidence supporting the claim.

splitter

Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Aug 19, 2012 - 04:53pm PT
FWIW - I wasn't in the Valley the night of the YPB rescue. But was just 2 days later. I had returned to climb with Jack, as I have already stated. Like everyone, I was very upset. I distinctly recall several people telling me that he had been drinking a fair amount of wine in the Mt Room that evening. Someone also mentioned that he was reluctant to go on the rescue secondary to that. Then, of course, he wouldn't have needed the money and prollie would have preferred to sleep, regardless. I also distinctly remember someone saying that the Ranger or whomever roused him was insistent upon him going for that very reason (new he didn't need to go and was reluctant to) and insisted that he go and told him he was obligated to go because of his SAR privileges!!!
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Aug 19, 2012 - 11:42pm PT
hey there say ric, you are going to include this thread as an appendix to the book, right?

that way everybody will be famous long ago. too bad the title has been taken

Famous Long Ago: My Life and Hard Times With Liberation News Service, at Total Loss Farm and on the Dharma Trai (Ray Mungo)

do you have an estimate of when you will be able to provide an estimate of the estimated time of arrival of your book?





sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Aug 20, 2012 - 08:53am PT
You shanghaied yourself that time, thanks for one of the more delusional rants yet – I’m done with you geniuses – Ed Meese?! Really?! And you attack me? I served Meese lunch once, and he was lucid and polite, more than can be said for you – and he was a 20% tipper, I doubt you share much with your server.
Licky, good luck – sincerely. You have to endure morons like shanghai. I’m sorry I ever rattled your cage – in retrospect, you didn’t deserve it. Not considering the fact that you have to deal with morons like shanghai. Licky, I’ll let you know when I’m nearby, in case you want the story. With morons like shanghai here on the thread I’d prefer not to post it, sorry.
No hard feelings from this end, despite the morons like shanghai
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Aug 20, 2012 - 07:05pm PT
No hard feelings from this end”

Oh! Poow wittle baby was it something I said.




Now was Hardy on the right hand side of Meese, the left or was he actually across from him. This is very important can you recall: close your eyes, relax, breath in, hold it and release a couple of times, and think now. Come on you can do it.

Like I said before “A fool will always end up stepping in their own Sh^t”. You are swimming in it.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 26, 2012 - 12:40am PT
Dayuum..looks like I'm in good standing. Whew, I was sweating bullets for a while.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Sep 29, 2012 - 08:54pm PT
hi ric:

bullets are a hard thing to sweat

how goes it with Das Buch?

You know I've got a lot riding on this. People are wanting to bet me $10,000 that you're not gonna pull it off.

Rick Perry and I are not betting men, but I bet you'll do it.

I still like my idea of including this thread as an appendix. I, for one, will waive all royalty claims.
turd

climber
Sep 29, 2012 - 11:58pm PT
What comes after jumping the shark?

bullfrog

Trad climber
Sep 30, 2012 - 05:12am PT
^^ "Good lord! I've heard about this. Cat juggling!"
Albion

Trad climber
Bristol, UK
Oct 2, 2012 - 03:47pm PT
cat juggling?

what the feck?
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Oct 2, 2012 - 04:29pm PT
Good lord

[Click to View YouTube Video]
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Oct 3, 2012 - 12:41pm PT
Almost five months since I had regular internet access, and this thread just keeps going and going and goign.......
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 3, 2012 - 02:46pm PT
^^^ Onanism is very difficult to overcome.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Oct 3, 2012 - 03:05pm PT
^ You can't make a statement like that without offering up evidence, or can you?

I had never heard of cat juggling until it came up on this thread and being a preservationist at heart I think this thread has potential to become the longest running thread of all time.

I will, however, report it to the useless thread thread.

EDIT: that's worthless thread

Albion

Trad climber
Bristol, UK
Oct 28, 2012 - 10:46am PT
bump
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 30, 2012 - 03:24am PT
I've made contact with a few of those within the drug group. I'm trying to decide if what they have to talk about is pertinent to the story as I'm telling it. For those of you that have been following this thread, what do you think? Any interest in how they got into the business? How they perfected their craft? Where they went and how they moved the dope from Mexico to the US?
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Oct 30, 2012 - 03:33am PT
Definitely!
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Oct 30, 2012 - 03:48am PT
A hearty Thank You for the chance to put up my favorite song from Woods Talk, a good old smokin dope song.[Click to View YouTube Video]

Flying into Yosemite
In a big forty-seven C;
After flying over deserts and seas
Don't ditch that plane, if you please,
Mr. Piloting man.

We're doing the best that we can
On Ostrander Lake not to land.
Couldn't begin to make it much plainer
Just don't try to land that old plane here,
If you please, Mr. Piloting Man.


It's safe to say we can rule out Arlo, but I'm not sure about that mandolin playing steel guitarist. He could be the guy who met Arlo at the terminal. Arlo claimed to have been really gone from eating a brick, so...

Nah, that guy wasn't even alive at the time of the crash, I bet. Just like Arlo's boy wasn't either, probably...

Oh, well, some one else will have to come forth with the real dope. It's time for a nap.

James Wilcox

Boulder climber
The Coast
Oct 30, 2012 - 11:00am PT
Does the Tercero name mean anything?

Even though there's some interesting coincidences, I assume
Thorp and Zylsrta's "Company" was a different group(East Coast). Seems
Zylstra did have a bit of a reputation sabataging planes; targeting and killing an FBI informant.
Albion

Trad climber
Bristol, UK
Oct 31, 2012 - 06:16pm PT
For those of you that have been following this thread, what do you think?

Oh yes - the whole narrative from how the people that ran the operation came to be doing what they were doing, to how the plane crashed through to what the consequences were for those who found some of it's cargo please.

Give us the whole nine yards - Krueger did.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Oct 31, 2012 - 06:35pm PT
Hey ric, happy halloween. You were gonna leave that stuff out?

Or you could be kinda clever like George Lucas. Start in the middle and then work backwards in volume two.

Would you please put some pedal to the metal here?

My book tying all this stuff together ... from the Coronado Company to the Laguna Brotherhood to the Chicago Seven to the Yosemite Plane Crashers to ... (ah ah can't reveal too much)

(just a tease ... to the Irvine Cocaine Club and the THC Real Estate Trust)

is on hold.

splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Oct 31, 2012 - 07:00pm PT
...targeting and killing...
I have brought this up before, but I am going to mention it again. Like I said, I had talked with JD just before his demise, had made plans to do a route when I returned from the eastside in a few days. When i returned, specifically to hook up with Jack, he ws dead.

I walked that trail, from bottom to top and back down, 2-3 times over the next few days. And had sat at the very spot where he had "tripped" and pondered the whole scenario for several hours at least. I had a very uncomfortable/unsettling feeling about the whole thing. Like i said, where he went over, was the only place on the whole trail that something like that could have happened. It was a 15-20 ft wide swath/opening with a clear shot over the cliff edge (about 20-30 yards below the trail). Everywhere else was blocked by trees and bushes that would either stop you or you could grab, etc.!

One spot 15-20 ft wide in thousands of yards of trail! I had prollie been up that trail over a dozen times in the prior 6 or so years and recall, before his accident, thinking that it would be a bad place to trip/fall IF it were wet and slippery. But, what were the chances of someone tripping right there? Particularly someone like Jack who had been up that trail dozens of times.

Plus, I know for a fact, that Jack was holding. Someone new where and what he had and decided they wanted it all. The opportunity presented itself. In my opinion, this was the motive and incentive for someone to off him. Either simply push him or smack him in the back of the head with a rock or hammer. Greed can be a very powerful motivater/force.
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Nov 1, 2012 - 12:34am PT
Because they were close to him (another climber) a "friend". Put fukin' 2+2 together! As in, perhaps part of it was theirs and they wanted it all, or whatever!
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Nov 1, 2012 - 12:41am PT
Tercero
Thorp
zYelstra
Comp any!
FBI informants
Killing floor
Jimi Hendrix
Saboteurs
Targets
East Coasters

What ever became of the Modesto-Yosemite nexus?

You getting all this ric? The plot thickens up like a chicken-neck on steroids. My book just got two chapters longer. Mine may be bigger than yours, but it's the readers who count, right?

ric

i'll help you keep track

murder
sociopaths
money money money
inflation
wooden nickels
hoot owls
spirits


sorry but I don't know Jack

just keepin' tabs


Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Nov 1, 2012 - 09:42am PT
I have some doubts about this. Murdering someone is a big thing, over a few thousand dollars of marijuana? Who would be so desperate and ruthless? It's much more likely that someone would just try to follow him and rip him off.
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Nov 1, 2012 - 11:03am PT
It's much more likely that someone would just try to follow him and rip him off.
Another climber? Obviously not, cuz he might rip him off, but, he would never climb again, or certainly not in the Valley.

And it wasn't just a few thousnad dollars of weed. There was cash, a lot of cash, involved and a lot of quality weed, etc! Plus, this was '76 and whatever the amount (say 50-100K) you could increase that by 5+ times to factor in inflation. Minimum wage then was about $2.30/hr. vs $8.00/hr now. And everything was a lot cheaper in general, so the dollar was worth about 5 x more than it is today, or even more. You could by primo reidential lots in Mammoth for $12,500.00 ... try and find a lot for that now!! It would be 10-20 times that, at least!

edit: So, the incentive was there. Socio-paths exist in climbing, just like they exist everywhere else.
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Nov 1, 2012 - 01:15pm PT
Just one last thing regarding "murdering someone"; there couldn't have been an easier, more lax environment in the US to get away with murder than Yose in the 70's. Particularly when it's in regards to a dirtbag climber on the parks sh#t list. Regardless, they prollie didn't even consider it, let alone look into it. And, besides, we were ALL considered criminals in their eyes, bitd, and deserved whatever came upon us...particularly under the present circumstances (at that time).
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Nov 1, 2012 - 01:40pm PT
Don Paul, people get killed for nickels.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Nov 1, 2012 - 06:36pm PT
Maybe but ... how is pushing the guy off a cliff going to make you rich? It makes it easier to steal his huge stash? I'm not sure about that. If you just steal his stash, what can he do? Try to hunt you down, I guess. But if you kill him you will have the MAN to deal with. It doesn't sound like a good criminal plan to me.
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Nov 1, 2012 - 07:32pm PT
The black book was the other aspect of it that I (and others, of course) have brought up. If some of the names in it were of prominent individuals in the north west (where it was evidentely headed) or from wherever, for that matter. What would it be worth to protect their identity? Someone, or several, could have been in C4, watching, listening & waiting for the right opportunity. Word traveled fast, everyone new about Jack & the black book. And, even if it was already history (destroyed) all it would take was a glance at the names and for one prominent/significant one to stick out.

I have the feeling it was someone else though, like I said above. Someone fairly close to him. That's the way I felt then anyway. I think it was personally motivated. Maybe he simply slipped/tripped at the only place on the trail, imo, that it could have happened. There was NO divit or hole, rock nor anything to slip/trip or whatever on. It was flat wher he went over. I'm certain of that.

There was something very unsettling, troubling, disturbing in regards to the whole scenario. Call it second sense, some sort of "divine" insight, revelation or whatever, but it haunted me.

edit: and regarding money, keep in mind the that you could buy a brand new ford f250 4x 0r dodge powerwagon, etc., for about 5K (five grand) where the same vehicle would cost you 50K today. I know because i priced and owned one of them back then and own one now that cost me 50K in '02! So, even 25K would be a substantial amount of money then. I know what kind of money was floating around at that time, & what else needed to be moved out of the ditch (what hadn't made it out/holding, sitting on). Jack wanted to get out of the valley, he was tied down there for a specific reason. He was not comfortable being there. In the meantime, he was looking forward to escaping to a wall...temporary solice, or whatever.
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Nov 1, 2012 - 11:51pm PT
I've never catered to the "pushed over" theory. But, I sure wonder what that owl was saying. Thirty-four wet fifties.
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Nov 8, 2012 - 10:34am PT
Here is the point i was making. It was 20-25 ft wide area (max), with nothing blocking the path to the cliffs edge. Everywhere else was blocked by bushes and trees. I timed myself several times walking by that spot. Walking, walking fast, running. At the longest (walking) it took five to six (5-6) seconds to walk by that spot. I forget how long it took me to walk the whole trail. But, lets say, if it took one hour (1) hour to walk that whole trail, that would be 3,600 seconds. So, the only spot where you could very likely go over the cliff if it (the slope, not the trail) were slippery/muddy was that one spot. Five to six random seconds out of three thousand six hundred seconds (3,600 divided by 6 = 600) that is a 1 in 600 chance of randomly falling there.

That would be equivalent to putting 599 white pingpong balls and one black one,(600 total) in a large box, room or whatever and blindfolding someone and having them pick one pingpong ball out of the lot and the chance of it being the black one that they picked. Like I said, the trail was flat there, nothing to trip over. And I believe it was somebody who was aware of this spot, and took advantage of it.

We are talking statistics, the likelyhood of someone randomly falling in that exact spot would be 1 in 600 at best. The likelyhood of randomly tripping/falling somewhere else (compared to there) would be, 599 times out of 600 times they would trip somewhere else (not there) which would not have resulted in death (falling off the cliff).

So, JD had to be very unfortunate to just happen to randomly trip there, eh? There was just a 5-6 second window out of a 3,600 second (1 hour) period that was fatale if he tripped, fell, and rolled to his far right side. Just think about it, five to six (5-6) seconds!!

Extremely suspicious, if you ask me. If you had walked that trail, looked at all the possible scenarios, you would have drawn the same conclusion.

Furthermore, I suspect there may be someone or several people that either saw or heard something suspicious, either that night or in the days to follow, that have not said anything about it up until now. If so, you need to come forward and clear your conscience.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Nov 9, 2012 - 04:58pm PT

Where? When? What? Why? And especially WHO?
Albion

Trad climber
Bristol, UK
Nov 19, 2012 - 05:48pm PT
bump
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Nov 29, 2012 - 04:48pm PT
The title of the book can be Synecdoche, Yosemite.
Khoi

climber
Vancouver, BC
Dec 1, 2012 - 04:59pm PT
I've made contact with a few of those within the drug group. I'm trying to decide if what they have to talk about is pertinent to the story as I'm telling it. For those of you that have been following this thread, what do you think? Any interest in how they got into the business? How they perfected their craft? Where they went and how they moved the dope from Mexico to the US?

I'd be very interested in reading all about that, in addition to all the other information surrounding the plane crash that you have dilligently and painstakingly acquired over the years.
Albion

Trad climber
Bristol, UK
Dec 16, 2012 - 06:50pm PT
"The title of the book can be Synecdoche, Yosemite."

Or perhaps "Metonymy, Yosemite"?

zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Dec 19, 2012 - 11:22pm PT
^This raises an interesting point. Just what is the title of the book?

About Half Way From Where They Came From To About Half Way To Where They Were Going
strangeday

Trad climber
Brea ca.
Dec 19, 2012 - 11:24pm PT
After almost seven years, I'm assuming there is no book.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Dec 19, 2012 - 11:57pm PT
Concealed on a shelf.

Fletcher

Trad climber
The rock doesn't care what I think
Dec 20, 2012 - 02:42am PT
Some well known books that took aeons to write from our pals down under:

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100828004844AAzI60h

Eric
AE

climber
Boulder, CO
Dec 21, 2012 - 10:46pm PT
As I expected, none of my suspicions about this author (?) or project have been proven wrong.
The Mayans even tried, but have apparently failed to end this interminable and abominable thread.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Dec 21, 2012 - 11:37pm PT
yawn. The guy will never put out a book; if he does, who will buy it.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Dec 21, 2012 - 11:39pm PT
i will buy it, well maybe i'll check it out of the libary first

now if he puts this thread in as an appendix i will buy it without checking it out of the library first


ric - are you listening?
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Dec 21, 2012 - 11:52pm PT
Mouse over to "show all", left click
right click, hit print,

got yourself a book, title it whatever you want
AE

climber
Boulder, CO
Dec 22, 2012 - 10:43am PT
Remember Seven Years in Tibet?

Guess the trouble comes from too much cruising time wasted in Southern Cal. Needs to have a focusing element, like Lances cancer, to get 'er done.

It is always fascinating to go away, do real-world stuff for 6 months at a stretch, then check back in here for grins and see that absolutely nothing has changed at all, even the players are here as well.

At least we can assume Ron was out there aligning his sites or tuning his skills, while this has become "the Thread that Will Not Die".

Synopsis for the Uninformed Newbies here (tho' that category seems less and less likely by now):

This guy (go to his first post) started sounding innocently enough, requesting info for a book project he was promising. As it went on, it became more and more apparent that he was either in way over his head, or possibly even that he had other intentions all along. Either way, he alternately guarantees he and the project are for real, rags or rips critical comments, suggestions, and well-meaning advice. Other characters come and go, taking sides, ranting in turn, but aside from a few teasers, little evidence of a real book have ever appeared.

Anyone who has developed an unhealthy personal investment in this site need to get an intervention, asap. Walk away. Trick yourself, if you must, by promising to buy the book - this will spare you any more misplaced anxiety since we all know it will never, ever, come to pass.

I think some casinos or other betting agencies may allow the placement of bets on arcane real-world events, like this. Perhaps we all could see if one of those would bite, at long odds. Climbers en masse could join the 1%.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Dec 22, 2012 - 11:07am PT
Mouse over to "show all", left click
right click, hit print,

got yourself a book, title it whatever you want

Good idea Jon, but:

It won't have most of ric's research and stylized writings in it.

This has been posted elsewhere, however, it fits nicely here too just change lyrics to writings:


Robert Hunter


The meaning(s), or lack thereof, ascribed by others to an example of lyric work are not part of the work. The interpretations are separate "works". The manner in which an audience receives the work, what they, collectively and individually, make of it, can indeed provide potential data for the allusiveness (referentiality)of future lyrics, gainsaid, but cannot be ascribed as a characteristic of the particular work, per se, with validity without "insider information" which is, in any case, no part of the song. That way lies true nonsense, even unto deconstruction. Yet the little bugger of a jingle persists and seems to move hearts.


Some leave their hearts in San Francisco, others just the lake.



AE

climber
Boulder, CO
Dec 22, 2012 - 11:26am PT
Without having to even read anything, I appear to be dead on - just went back, and find Splitter's still here scrawling the paranoid conspiracy stuff about Jack Dorn's fall. My "informant" described Jack as a weird crazy dude who speed-walked with hands stuffed in his pants pockets, while chanting odd little riffs out loud. Not the best combo for avoiding a nasty fall.
Using remedial math to rationalize the probability of a fall is entirely misguided. First, he and others could have already slipped, dozens, scores of times, but the only slip that mattered was the spot he went over. Like the Poison Spider Trail in Moab, there are actually quite a few spots where a slip would be fatal, but the few victims appear to all gone off where a specific combination of rock-hop and exposure come together. No mystery. Or IS there?!!?? Kyle Copeland once had the Death Bike, that survived the fall that killed its rider, and others then had bad luck on it, and Kyle's DEAD now, of "Cancer" they claim, but I never saw the autopsy, blah blah blah.
Also, as Jack was such a fit strong fast hiker, he increased the likelihood of casual error at the very point in question, while reducing the possibility of any murderer keeping up with him at all, much less timing the push to match the one spot where it would have any effect. One of my own close calls was on a casual downclimb I'd done 50 times before, where I found myself treading air for a few long seconds, until barely managing to keep from tipping over the edge.
Climbers= only ones who could have accomplished such a technical murder; zero motive.
Druggie-mobsters = only ones with presumptive motive; zero ability to even hike the trail most likely much less catch or keep up with Jack, and more than likely to hurl themselves over the edge in trying.

Don't hold your breath too long waiting for those who "saw or heard something suspicious, either that night or in the days to follow, that have not said anything about it up until now." The silence will deafen you.
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Dec 27, 2012 - 11:09pm PT
just because he went 'over' there, doesn't mean that he was incapcitated there (wacked in the back of the head or whatever). that could have taken place anywhere on the trail (but most likely in the general vicinity). so, there is one small point that i'll add to the scenario, but there are many. you & your source ("informant") don't know sh#t AE. (particularly in regards to JD). So take your F'n character assinations elsewhwere d00d!

edit: "zero motive" -- WRONG! Plenty of motive...!

AE - "Don't hold your breath too long waiting for..." -- Dood, I have gotten several emails already. From people who spoke to him on the trail, etc!
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Dec 27, 2012 - 11:19pm PT

Three of the original C4 guys that used their "funds" from the cargo ended up in the White House receiving Presidential Citations for their rescue work. Two became world class photographers, two became prolific novelists as well as having a major motion picture produced using this incident as the premise for the story. Many used their funds to further their climbing career using the latest equipment. Some even used their funds to design, develop, and market equipment that are used today in rock climbing. There are places to stay, places to eat, and places to have fun, all funded by the "harvest" of this plane crash.


by Ricknie » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:23 am
Well its now been almost 2 1/2 years since I started my research on this subject. I honestly thought in April of 2005 that I 'd have the book finished and published for that up coming Christmas. As it turned out I am contacted at least three or four times each week with either more information, new information, or contradicting information.

An interesting example about the four guys that found the plane. Well the first four names that I received were never there. And, all four are still living, live and large as we speak. I've interviewed two of them within the past handful of months.

The plane was never what the Feds thought it was. Many would think that wouldn't matter, but in fact the plane was a highly modified WW II submarine hunter/killer. Its capabilities far out stretched a Lockheed Lodestar both in size and in performance.

I've managed to find the #2 guy in the drug group. He consented to a audio taped interview which lasted about four hours. He was responsible for staging the dope, acting as load master, and paying the pilot(s) (there were more than a dozen planes used). So he knew exactly how much dope was on board the plane when it crashed.

Right now I'm about 90% complete with my research. I'm still waiting for some paper work on the WW II history of the plane. I'm also going up to the lake and take some shots of the area as well as the trail where Jack Dorn fell from.

So stay tuned.....and if you have any thoughts, drop me an email.
Albion

Trad climber
Bristol, UK
Jan 8, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
So, all those climbers who did clandestine work for the agency or the military, were they around Yosemite in '77? The man have some leverage on them?

Nah.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jan 8, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
So has the plane crashed yet?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 8, 2013 - 01:08pm PT
The Eternal Book.

Unfinished Symphony.

Tales In Waiting.

The Old Testament of Dope.

20,000 Cm Under The Lake.

The Longest Yarn.






philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jan 8, 2013 - 01:11pm PT
20,000 Cm Under The Lake.

LOL! Now I gotta clean mocha and mucus off my lap top.
Thanx Brucester.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 8, 2013 - 01:15pm PT
You're most welcome Transportation Guru of the Rockies!!
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jan 8, 2013 - 01:16pm PT
Carl Sagan said it best

They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 8, 2013 - 01:24pm PT
The plane was never what the Feds thought it was. Many would think that wouldn't matter, but in fact the plane was a highly modified WW II submarine hunter/killer. Its capabilities far out stretched a Lockheed Lodestar both in size and in performance.

Huh? The Howard 500 prototype first flew in 1959 and was designed as an
executive ride from the get-go. The only commonality it shared with the
Lockheed Lodestar were outer wing panels and undercarriage.
Dolomite

climber
Anchorage
Jan 8, 2013 - 01:31pm PT
I have to go to a lot of writing conferences for my work. When you get a bunch of writers in a room and ask how long they worked on their books, the most common answer is "ten years."
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 13, 2013 - 01:31am PT
I'm curious. With all of the armchair quarterbacks/writers, have any of you ever submitted a FOIA request to a governmental agency?

Not true Reilly. You have more research to do.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jan 13, 2013 - 01:41am PT
Actually, yes I have. Being an active wreck chaser, submitting FOIA's is a big part of searching. It's a huge pain in the ass, especially when your information comes in 9 months later and doesn't have all the information you wanted because you didn't word the request properly. Then you have to re submit and wait another 9 months. Fun fun.
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
Jan 13, 2013 - 03:01am PT
So without any criticism of the timeline, Licky, do you have any projections on when your book might be out? A very little bit of info in that regard might go a long way. Where ya at? I still want to read it.
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
Jan 13, 2013 - 03:20am PT
What you talkin' about there QITNL (and what the hell does that avatar mean anyway?)?? Who is this "Tony" you refer to? You got some deeper info as to what the hell is going on here or is this more cloak and dagger?
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
bouldering
Jan 13, 2013 - 03:22am PT
... do you have any projections on when your book might be out?
What "book"? Licky is The Man, not an author, trying to prosicute any left-over scraps he can gleen from you idiots.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jan 13, 2013 - 10:31am PT
Technically the syntax is

Hey Tony ...

but when I asked, he referred it to ric


BTW ric, don't let 'em bring you down - time (and me) is (are) on your side

[Click to View YouTube Video]
yosemitemtb

Social climber
Mariposa
Jan 15, 2013 - 09:02am PT
What "book"? Licky is The Man, not an author, trying to prosicute any left-over scraps he can gleen from you idiots.


Eight years of poking around on a climbers forum to bust someone for marijuana possession that occurred 30 years ago? That's even less likely than the book coming out.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jan 15, 2013 - 09:34am PT
I always check when this pops up top, thinking it may be ric giving all his loyal followers pre-notification of the imminent publication.

It's the least I can do.

Albion

Trad climber
Bristol, UK
Jan 18, 2013 - 05:53pm PT
Huh? The Howard 500 prototype first flew in 1959 and was designed as an executive ride from the get-go. The only commonality it shared with the
Lockheed Lodestar were outer wing panels and undercarriage.

This proves you have not read all this thread. That probably means you have a life, unlike some of us.

Mr Schloss (which is, incidentally, the german for 'castle', but I digress) has explained the whole plane pedigree thing already.

Hey Rick, you gonna publish before the 40th anniversary of this debacle?

I still wanna read it too btw.
prickle

Gym climber
globe,az
Jan 18, 2013 - 06:28pm PT
oh please....

if people died dealing drugs then its their own fault

nobody forced them to do it
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 19, 2013 - 06:36pm PT
After filing a FOIA request at Yosemite, my brother and I poured over the boxes of files that they provided.

zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jan 19, 2013 - 09:28pm PT
and now you're drying them out?


keep up the good work, I won't ask
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Jan 19, 2013 - 11:01pm PT
Like Christmas morning! That pile of records has to contain at least a few real nuggets!
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
Jan 19, 2013 - 11:44pm PT
No, I'm sure all that sh#t got smoked a long, long time ago.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2013 - 01:39am PT
TM...the nuggets are what are missing, not what was present

Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 23, 2013 - 08:39pm PT
I just read a letter from the Park Service to Jack Dorn's mother telling her that her son was not only a Park employee, but he was a "Ranger". Go figure.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Jan 24, 2013 - 08:22am PT
A lot of research involves eliminating possibilities.
Sometimes enormous amounts of time are spent just to be able to say - I haven't found anything more, I think I'm done.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 25, 2013 - 01:43am PT
Randisi...again, as I said to many others..this isn't about you. You need to sit down, or....lend a hand
Ging831

climber
Jan 28, 2013 - 05:21pm PT
My pops told me this story when I was a kid; started thinking about it over a bowl the other night. Interesting to find out he wasn't full of sh#t. When will this book published?? I understand it's hard to kno exactly
squishy

Mountain climber
Jan 28, 2013 - 05:32pm PT
The book was already done and turned into a movie...Cliffhanger....
Ging831

climber
Jan 28, 2013 - 06:46pm PT
Cliffhanger is obviously a fictional movie.... And from what I ve read in this blog so ate the books... Fabricated and fictitious. This really happened and I'd like to hear the real story.
Griff

Social climber
Felton, PA
Jan 28, 2013 - 08:12pm PT

Licky poses with boxes.

If that's like the archiving at any National Park I have ever done research at then there is nothing relevant in any of those boxes. They give you boxes of stuff and say, "there might be something in here".
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 2, 2013 - 05:02pm PT
Griff...you obviously have been there. Out of all those boxes we came away with 21 pages of information. It took us both a full day of going over them box by box, page by page. We were not allowed to copy the pages, but we were allowed to shoot them with a 14 mpixel camera.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Feb 3, 2013 - 12:11am PT
hey ric, sorry to hear that. howsabout a little teaser regarding what you were looking for/hoping to find.

landcruiserbob

Trad climber
BIG ISLAND or Vail ; just following the sun.......
Feb 3, 2013 - 01:23am PT
Lots of wet paka lolo

dats about it
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2013 - 01:54am PT
Z...I was hoping to find a few Park reports that would give support to the final Park reports for both Jack Dorn's death as well as the NTSB's finding. Strange that the LEO's reports that would support the Park's final report would be missing.

You couldn't flow chart that if you tried.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Feb 3, 2013 - 02:42am PT
The government (or anybody in power) disappears embarrassing stuff all the time. I had an Air Force guy on duty slam into the back of my car while doing 120 kph while having an epileptic seizure (his job on base was harzardous waste disposal). They refused to let me see the accident report and disappeared both his and my medical records for a couple of years. Even though it was an on duty guy in uniform on an Air Force Base, I never collected a penny of insurance from them although my Japanese insurance replaced my car. I still have neck problems from displaced vertebrae.

What were they covering up? The fact that he visited the Air Force clinic numerous times for headaches and blackouts and they told him it was stress and gave him Motrin. Only when he had a grand mal seizure did they test him for epilepsy.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 6, 2013 - 12:28am PT
Well Jan I'm not surprised. In these years as I have poked around the different Federal agencies a few common qualities have surfaced. If you play within their rules, you'll get what you want. The difficult thing is to figure out what their rules are. Sure they think they have them all spelled out, but they only make sense to those inside. And each agency is allowed to make their own rules.

Take for instance the FAA. When asked for the history of ownership of the plane OUTSIDE of FOIA, they jumped to the occasion without skipping a beat. One year later I requested through FOIA the history of the plane and I was told they have no records that could help me out. I believe it is a case of file clerkania. The clerk took more than a full year to return the files that they made copies of for me in the first place. God knows where that file is now. And so it goes with the NPS.
Trango

Mountain climber
Livermore, CA
Mar 15, 2013 - 11:10am PT
bump

Oh I'm sorry -- were we going for the "longest time between posts" record?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 15, 2013 - 11:52pm PT
ha ha, another month another nada - not a damn thing here from licky or anyone else - i was happily retired from the thread, but the rest of you dropped the rappel line - maybe some of the old haters will come back to call me an idiot and spur some vitriol from the peanut gallery - might help licky finish up, if he's still on this project - i have my doubts but who cares what i think?
Synchronicity

Trad climber
British Columbia, Canada
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:33am PT
Sidmo, go find another dead horse to beat, this one has had its fill
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 16, 2013 - 11:24am PT
Ah Synchie, you’re the first hater out of the woodwork, congrats – just like the other vermin who sit for months, reading nothing but ready to pounce on any poster they dislike, regardless of content or lack thereof – so I’m beating a dead horse am I? well at least I rode that horse once – perhaps you rode too, perhaps not – seems as if some of the most vitriolic posters here are posers or simply too young to have been roping around the valley in 77 on a runaway horse of good fortune – so is you just a hater, or art thou a skeptic as well? I find it humorous, ludicrous really, that deskchair detectives on a stupid licky thread can inflate their egos by attacking strangers of whom they know nothing – as for all you disbelievers, ever feel like you’ve been duped . . . all while trying to appear to not to have been duped, as if you have some special knowledge – I only know what I know, so I don’t discount any other’s accounts – but they discount mine, as if their presence on the scene way back when was omnipotent – how could you sit in a tent in C4 and know what was going on in Curry Village? – I don’t know what the hell happened at the Lodge, but I damn sure know what we were up to across town – whether I choose to share with licky don’t change a thing – history does not need a chronicler to be true, so does this story need telling? I honestly believe Licky wants to spin an accurate yarn, but I’m not sure he should knit his legacy on a tale he knows so little about – maybe it would be best if he writes tech manuals for aircraft since that seems to be his forte – so, c’mon out of the woodwork all you haters – don’t let Synchrie have all the fun – 1700 posts, time to stir the pot of stoned soup – I’ll add a rock here: a nonclimbing valley goodtime dealer was assassinated in the bay area not long after the event. Has anyone looked into that sidestory? Seems there was an innocent bystander who died as well, a girlfriend I was told – connection to the plane, or more coincidence? But since he wasn’t airplane mechanic do you haters care?
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Apr 16, 2013 - 12:27pm PT
Long time, no see Sidmo. Judging from your post it was not long enough.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 16, 2013 - 02:50pm PT
just stirring the pot, jon - should the thread stay dead? does it matter that i posted any more than it matters that no one else has for months? am i getting in the way? and if so, what is it i'm in the way of? if a tree falls in the forest, or if a post threads onto a dead forum . . . does anyone hear the sound? or should i fear the wrath of licky, brawny and the rest for defacing their beloved thread? it seems a bit threadbare of late
labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Apr 16, 2013 - 02:52pm PT
"Long time, no see Sidmo. Judging from your post it was not long enough." x2
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 16, 2013 - 06:19pm PT
labrat, you're so eloquent - and you know multiplication too? another genius here on licky's thread - guess it was bothering you too that i posted something when no one else had bothered to - i'm sure you've been much too busy to post (but not too busy to check the dead thread for activity)- you dudes crack me up - got anything on the plane? yeah, i didn't think so - you know, when we were your age we had more to do than hassle old climbers online . . . oh yeah, we weren't online then, we were on belay
labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Apr 16, 2013 - 06:25pm PT
Please add old to your description of me....... 46 and counting.
;-)
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Apr 16, 2013 - 06:58pm PT
Well, don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, but the world of medicine has been revolutionized in the time it's taking to get the book out.

When it arrives we'll probably be able to it get via a direct neuro-electronic brain-feed.

Hi Ric:


[Click to View YouTube Video]
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 17, 2013 - 09:32am PT
Interesting, but I fail to see the relevance -
does anyone who was there still read or post
about the plane anymore, or has Licky's thread
been reduced to random rants? Does anyone know
or remember anything about the alleged murder
of that person I mentioned and did it have
anything to do with the plane? We never knew
but some suspected that it may have. I wasn't
sure then, nor now. It seems to me that what
happened to the people involved has as much or
more significance to the overall story than
factoids about hydraulic fluid in the plane
itself, but I suspect Licky and the haters will
disagree . . . and likely attack me for being
stupid, etc. I'd be stupid if I told you what
happened without knowledge of the facts, which
I do not have. But to pose a question seems
legitimate on a thread that at least began as a
forum on the events of the plane crash. The peanut
gallery of youngsters who could not have been there
in 1977 that fill this thread may get their kicks
attacking posters like myself who don't write down
to their intellectual level, but does that help
Licky write the book? I can’t see how it could.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Apr 17, 2013 - 10:04am PT
Ric posted essentially the same message in several forums. Why this one mushroomed is an interesting question. Cheap entertainment I suppose.

I was not there, but I was very close to some other drug dealing operations. There is always a threat of murder associated with drug trafficing (even back in the more mellow early days). My Little League buddy and another friend I used to cruise with were possibly and definitely done in as a result of drugs deals gone bad.

I'd still read the book if it came out and the medicine vid is definitely relevant inasmuchas it's going to take a revolution to keep some (many) of the ST readers alive until it does. Good entertainment too.


On the morning of 12 October 1978, Vicious claimed to have awoken from a drugged stupor to find Nancy Spungen dead on the bathroom floor of their room in the Hotel Chelsea in Manhattan.

Since no one else has, I'll be the first to ask.

Was Nancy killed as part of a cover up of the events in Yosemite?
frank wyman

Mountain climber
montana
Apr 17, 2013 - 10:07am PT
I moved out of the valley just before this happened. Had several freinds that were at the scene gathering the spoils. They told me some really good first hand stories. I have tried to get them to read this thread and relate to those times but they are "paranoid" about speaking up for some reason. Will try to get them to at least read this and contribute, hopefully we can get some "new" stories soon....
Synchronicity

Trad climber
British Columbia, Canada
Apr 17, 2013 - 10:59am PT
I post one line telling you to stop flogging a dead horse. I never disagreed with your info, I never claim to have "been there" (i'm Canadian), never even mentioned Licky and his book. You respond with another gibberish text wall.....

Sidmo your level of narcissism would be considered downright impressive if it wasn't so embarrassing

Again I simply asked you to stop bumping a thread in which no information, no book, no changes have really occurred in years. But we all know you're not going to listen because you're only looking for an argument while trying to convince yourself that it's everyone else that is "hating".

Reasoning with you is like wrestling a pig in the mud, it doesn't take long to realize the pig likes it...
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Apr 17, 2013 - 11:22am PT
RB’s demise was an isolated event unrelated to anything having to do with the plane crash. Licky already knows this.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 17, 2013 - 11:40am PT
Yeah and maybe it was the gal’s husband getting revenge – but the odds of that happening to someone you know are low, and with some of the other things that happened after the plane made us wonder what the phuck was up. The timing alone makes it suspicious. But is the relevance of Sid Viscous due to the drug related death or my name?

More postings would be great, especially from those of us who were there. I can understand their reticence to speak out, perhaps you could serve as an intermediary. Secondhand stories can be very informative. In fact, if a story was related relatively soon after the fact, often the person telling the story will forget details (due to a myriad of reasons, perhaps senility) while the person to whom the story was told may remember the exact wording. In those cases the secondhand information can be as good or even better than a participant’s retelling at a much later date.

Syncho, does your mouse work? It would be easier for you to scroll past my posts, if they bother you so, than to respond. Or are you just inserting yourself into a story to which you have nothing of relevance to offer? If you just want to diss me send me an email, don’t litter the thread. This thread was effectively dead yesterday. I jumped back in and voila! Already one secondhand informant has been enticed to at least offer up the existence of some stories, and the reasons that they have not been put forward. I believe a lot of us are either offline or afraid to step forward with details. That should be understandable to any reasonable readers. Those of you who weren’t involved have no standing to neither criticize nor judge those of us who were regarding our concerns. Read the posts or don’t read them, let you mouse click take you to a better place if you don’t like it here. But stop inserting yourself into a story in which you do not belong. Or continue, but it makes you look small. The fact that you are Canadian has nothing to do with it – I know some foreigners who were “in on it” but one’s nationality has nothing to do with a story from Yosemite. Anyone who has spent any time at all there knows that the population of park residents is disproportionately international. If you are Canadian, and over 53, and were at the time a committed rock climber you could have lived there as easily as me. Curry Co. would have hired you for a season at least. Face it Syncho, you’re not old enough to have any relevance on this thread. I am not sharing info about events of the Civil Rights era for example – that was clearly before my time. Stop flaming and write on a thread which you might be able to offer more than speculative subjective opinion based on very little other than a thread about a book that may or may not be published . . . ever.

As for wrestling with a pig – it takes two to fight. Why do you bother to? If you don’t want to get muddy take a hike, jump in a lake, or go climb a rock. And if you don’t get the significance of that you sure as hell don’t know much about Yosemite or the plane. Why don’t you share some stories of events surrounding the climbing scene in Canada? I promise not to post oppositional vitriol if you do. I would not have standing to do so, just as you have no standing here.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Apr 17, 2013 - 11:48am PT
I think mostly nobody beyond the small number of people actually involved really gives a sh#t about a two-bit drug smuggling operation gone awry in 1977.

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Apr 17, 2013 - 12:01pm PT
I had a friend who flew drugs in the 70s and 80s, he got really tired of hearing people say "I thought you were dead"

As for this thread, "Ain't nobody got time for that . . . ."

[Click to View YouTube Video]
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 17, 2013 - 12:14pm PT
I don’t know about that Edgy, there was a “major motion picture” thought to be based in part on the story, as I understand. It could be a fascinating read if well done. I think Licky knows that, and his delay in publishing probably has much to do with the fact that this is a hell of a story and one he knows could be a transformative project for him as a writer. He’s probably just trying to get it right, to perfect the telling in a manner that WILL appeal to the lay reader. I for o0n, hope he succeeds, in spite of the fact that I believe he is misguided in his zeal to attack some potential sources. In his defense, he will probably get it right eventually, and I bet you’ll find it more interesting than this thread.
frank wyman

Mountain climber
montana
Apr 17, 2013 - 12:22pm PT
Mr. Sidmo..Does the name Eric Moen, He was a waiter at the Ahwahnee, sound familiar at all?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 17, 2013 - 09:28pm PT
Yeah I think so - been a long time, but I ate there most every day - whoops, let out a secret huh? wasn't that place pricey?
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Apr 17, 2013 - 09:51pm PT
I doubt it, but it would be nice for Ric if it was/is.




donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Apr 17, 2013 - 10:05pm PT
Nancy tried to get Sid to stop his steroid use and spend less time in the gym. He went into a rage and the rest is history.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 18, 2013 - 12:40pm PT
again, just what does a sex pistol have to do with yosemite, climbing, or the plane? we had a punk rocker show up in the valley around planetime - he stuck out wearing black with really pale skin - because he heard i was a deadhead he sought me out for a fight, based on some erroneous assuption that fans of one kind of music were natural enemies of fans of another kind of music - it was the first time since hi school and the last time since that anyone picked a fight with me - so what again is the connection between a sex pistol and a yosemite climber? are you engaging in an intergenerational crosscultural conversation instead of talking about the phuckin plane again? i don't care, i can edit this thread with my mouse, but i just don't get it - some of you fellas confuse the shyt out of me with your own confusion - i'm sidmo, not sid viscous, sid ceasar or ass-sid - got it now, dumbass?
WBraun

climber
Apr 18, 2013 - 12:48pm PT
what does a sex pistol have to do with yosemite, climbing,

We put stuff like this up here just for YOU since you're so stupid you fall for anything even if it's not related to you.

Three, two, one ...... verbal explosion !!!!!!

Any minute now you'll go off the rocker again into another stupid knee jerk rant because of this post too.

We all sit back laugh at your stupidity .....
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 18, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
laugh out loud moron - SO WHAT? you brag about being so easily amused - i guess you're just one flew over the cookoo's nest, laughing maniacally at things that really aren't amusing - you still aren't contributing any more than those of us you laugh at - if i can bring a smile to someone in the nuthouse then so be it - i'm just amazed that you think i care - a rainy day and i'm clicking away - are you upset that i'm laughing at you? NO? and if you are so delusional as to think that i care if you laugh at me then keep hallucinating - did ya take too much acid back in the old hippie days brawny?
squishy

Mountain climber
Apr 18, 2013 - 03:51pm PT
this thread use to be a real piece of history...
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 18, 2013 - 09:13pm PT
Is it really "guts" to trust your legacy,
reputation perhaps even freedom (at the very
least the freedom to reinvent oneself) to the
capriciousness of an unknown entity who has
aspirations to be a writer? Would you have the
"guts" to apply for a position in an organization
with the wherewithal and inclination to demand an
intrusive check of one's bodily fluids, and then
expect them to not do some kind of comprehensive
cybersearch of your personal correspondence? Is it
“guts” to trust secrets to licky? Many guys our age
have children who are young adults who are considerably
more computer-savvy than we are – is it “guts” to
risk alienating or upsetting your family were they
to discover how daddy paid for college back in the day?
Is it “guts” to help empower, perhaps even enrich a
cynically non-professional wannabe historian that
offers little and asks much? Let’s dispense with the
macho posturing. It doesn’t take “guts” to do something
stupid for no benefit other than to impress ex-daredevils
that one will likely never meet, unless you wind up being
unfortunate cellmates chained together in some arcane
litigation that the deskchair supertopo lawyers promised
could never happen due to some ambiguous legal shields called
“statutes of limitation”?

REALLY?!!!

“Guts” indeed

GO AHEAD AND FOOL YOURSELF
BLURT AND BLAB FOR LICKY
TELL HIM, THEM, US YOUR STORY AND SECRETS

IF YOU HAVE THE “GUTS”

Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Apr 18, 2013 - 11:30pm PT
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Apr 18, 2013 - 11:37pm PT
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Apr 19, 2013 - 12:28am PT
sidmo

got it now, dumbass?

I will observe that this is a circular reference, but you won't get it.

Sid V was an entertainer

He took drugs

Nancy died in 1978

Controversy swirled around his death and that of Nancy

This thread's value is entertainment, as will be Ric's book should it ever get finished

You, on the other hand, derive some other kind of value from the thread

Your knife is so dull, you could ride it into town

(ask Donini or Herr Braun to explain it to you - I've done all I can)

Oh wait, do you listen to music? This one even has the words.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 19, 2013 - 08:20am PT
What is this, phuckin Youtube? Or MTV? And since when is history defined as entertainment? Your hero Licky is, or was meticulously compiling facts to give an accurate historical rendition of an actual event. Entertainment? Even I don’t think that is fair to Licky . . . or accurate. I recommended some time ago that he take what he had and write a novel. To his credit he persevered to compile data and regardless of my opinion of his lack of professionalism he wants to get it right . . . I don’t think his motivation is to entertain morons like you but to inform the curious as to what the phuck happened. Entertainment? What is he to you, a trained seal? You insult Licky, history and intellectual discourse. Must you dumb this thread down to your level? If you think sidviscous should be a part of this then you are casting such a wide net that nothing gets filtered out. You’re an insult to climbers everywhere, if you ever were a committed mountaineer.

Note to the world:
CLIMBERS ARE NOT ALL AS MORONIC AS THESE VIDEO POSTERS
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Apr 19, 2013 - 01:11pm PT
committed mountaineer

Luke Stong?

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=312325&msg=2033099#msg2033099

edit: damn, i forgot to attach a video reference, zbrown?

zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Apr 19, 2013 - 01:51pm PT
Well if you insist, but all of the Stong videos have been purged.

This is as close as I can come while still remaining within sidmo's rather strict guidelines re: historical import. This commercial aired well before the plane went down.

Ajax cleans dirt. Rocks smash Ajax. Gravel? It is what it is.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 19, 2013 - 02:02pm PT
Thank god we have this well-reasoned and thoughtfully conducted thread to
retreat to from the hellfire and brimstone of all those other threads!
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Apr 19, 2013 - 02:33pm PT
thanks zBrown, I am sure sidmo "gets it" now.

Hard to beleive that this thread is a respite from the slander and mudslinging of "the other" threads.

Is Ajax stonger than slander?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 19, 2013 - 02:39pm PT
Is Ajax stonger than slander?

It depends upon whether the slander breaks the skin.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Apr 19, 2013 - 08:58pm PT
Oh Sh#t! shanghaied, not this guy again but really I have to respond I tried to hold back but really you love the attention that you are stupid.

Ok! 5 months go bye and now you are posting the same crap: Everyone hates, belittles you or does not understand your reasoning.

“but I suspect Licky and the haters will disagree . . . and likely attack me for being stupid, etc. I'd be stupid if I told you what happened without knowledge of the facts, which I do not have. But to pose a question seems” That seems right you have no brain.

“myself who don't write down to their intellectual level,” That’s right.

“Major motion picture” thought to be based in part on the story, as I understand. It could be a fascinating read if well done”.

At the time back in the days of Meese [Governor Reagan’s] pot was a bad word even though both had knowledge but denied it about supplied drugs to the US during the Contra expedition. Even lawyers during the early 80’s would not take on clients that come in and say” I just busted for smoking a joint can you help me”. They knew the Feds went after them as well or made it hard for them or would be put on a list so they stayed clear of any case that had to do with pot.

A movie about pot would not sell so Sly baby changes the story line with money.

But this one is the best: Posted Apr 17, 2013 - 06:28pm PT

“Yeah I think so - been a long time, but I ate there most every day - whoops, let out a secret huh? wasn't that place pricey?:

“- whoops, let out a secret huh? wasn't that place pricey?” about eating at the pricy Ahwahnee almost every day. What secret was that: are you saying; you had the funds to pay for such an exclusive club or overheard a conversation that Meese said?

But in Aug 20 2012 05:55 am you posted:

“You shanghaied yourself that time, thanks for one of the more delusional rants yet – I’m done with you geniuses – Ed Meese?! Really?! And you attack me? I served Meese lunch once, and he was lucid and polite, more than can be said for you – and he was a 20% tipper, I doubt you share much with your server.

Licky, good luck – sincerely. You have to endure morons like shanghai. I’m sorry I ever rattled your cage – in retrospect, you didn’t deserve it. Not considering the fact that you have to deal with morons like shanghai.

Licky, I’ll let you know when I’m nearby, in case you want the story. With morons like shanghai here on the thread I’d prefer not to post it, sorry.

No hard feelings from this end, despite the morons like shanghai”

Then I responded by saying “Like I said before “A fool will always end up stepping in their own Sh^t”.

Ok! So you ate the left overs’ from Meese and his friends maybe Neil McDonald that brilliant famous head of MCA’s Security or was it Jules Stein when he arrived in his private personal helicopter [MCA] which was illegal but the YNP officials said OK!

Was the bacon or sausage he had sent back since he was Jewish that you got to scam or the toast, potatoes or eggs not correctly cooked the right way and had to be sent back, maybe half a steak uneaten from a guest?

So what is this this secret? So I will add like I did before but with a change: A fool will always end up stepping in their own Sh^t”. You proved yourself from the above but are you smoking this rather than stepping in it; seems to me has to be the only answer.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 19, 2013 - 11:55pm PT
Shanghead’s back – instead or composing sentences he’s cut-and-pasting mine again – it’s ok, call it my greatest hits album . . . better yet, call it shanghai’s picks from the vault

Shang, don’t you wish you had that time back? The time you wasted pasting my words back on the thread I mean – they are already there you know – and where did you get the fantasy about me eating off meese’s plate, or anyone else’s – I’ll leave those cafeteria trays to you camp 4 bums

and randisi – you are in some clique that liked me once but no longer? So what, then and now – I don’t care if you like me ever, or your little friends – I don’t do anything to curry your favor, anymore than Curry Co. curried our favor

Jonny, so you think I get it now? I doubt I ever get anything you expect me to – I’ll continue to try to let y’all down

And ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ, your videos are making me very very sleepy . . . ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ (PASTE IN SNORING SOUNDS HERE)
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Apr 20, 2013 - 12:00am PT
sidmo, can I get you a cup of Java? It's free.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 20, 2013 - 11:32pm PT
no thanx - i took a nappypoo - videos are so boring, nice not to see one for a change - now, does anyone here want to talk about the "plane" in a metaphysical sense, or should we continue to trade insults like pre-adolescents on a yellow school bus?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 22, 2013 - 07:13pm PT
Taking chances was what we all did for fun back then – sure there were unseen dangers like rockfall and narcs, but we took calculated risks and mitigated the exposure when possible. But the plane dragged some loosy-goosy characters into the mix, and their blind recklessness worried me then. I mainly worried for the naive, my bases were pretty well covered. And I don’t particularly think there’s any residual danger now, but who really knows? Licky? Any good reason to trust his judgement? Or his allegiances and/or affilations? The profit now is all his to claim, so I ask the age-old question: “what’s in it for me?”
What gets me is the supertopo legal team counseling us on the SOLs – like I’m gonna believe some anonomous poster about the law – this thing has been a joke from post one – licky doesn’t want to know what life was really like for us, he just wants to pose as a writer – maybe he hangs out at some English department and need a project to waste time on, but he cant be serious or he wouldn’t alienate any potential sources – a pro would just thank us for the input and then toss it in the round file, but licky lets certain posters really get under his skin – his anger gives him away as a rank amateur, and I can’t see any good reason to help him out – if he was more polite . . . maybe
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Apr 22, 2013 - 08:19pm PT
Hey! Sidmo

Where did you develop your Bi- Polar disease; while you were in Santa Barbara or arriving in the Valley?
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Apr 22, 2013 - 08:24pm PT
does anyone here want to talk about the "plane" in a metaphysical sense does anyone here want to talk about the "plane" in a metaphysical sense

That's what Ric is doing. Is there an echo in here?


This thread "is replete with unsupported self-importance."

It's entertaining though and sprinkled here and there with some interesting tidbits. Sorry sidmo, nothing you have said makes it onto the list. Keep trying.





sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 22, 2013 - 09:47pm PT
oh, so that's what riclicky's doing? really? you been peeking over his shoulder i suppose? my bipolarism was supposed to be my secret - shucks, now its out there on the worldwideweb - "I'm schizophrenic and so am I" (put the name to that quote for bonus points) - so i guess i'm bipolar on both sides of my personality - it's nice that i can get both psychiatric evaluation and legal advice here on one website, it puts new meaning to the term "one-stop shopping" - thanx to all you professionals for sharing your knowledge and insights for free - can you write me prescriptions too? i'll take a bottle of vicodin and one of xanax and call you in the morning
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Apr 25, 2013 - 07:59pm PT
Good to hear (well actually I read it) from you sidmo.

Keep on truckin' Ric(k).

Life on the highway can get bogged down by the filmsiest twists & turns.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 28, 2013 - 12:58am PT
Well put Z
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 29, 2013 - 08:36am PT
slicky, welcome home - as always, you're so well-spoken and insightful -
perhaps THE END is in sight for your "book" - you've been AWOL so long i thought maybe your internet connection got cut off for lack of content - so, would you rather back up the haters here or give us/them an update on your progress, or lack thereof? what's it take to get you motivated? finish already so i can waste some $$$ on your "book" - or are you going to put off closing to do some more posing?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 29, 2013 - 09:06am PT
he'd need content to write a table of them
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 29, 2013 - 10:43pm PT
How about coffe sidmo? I'll buy
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 30, 2013 - 09:24am PT
how 'bout a keg of beer? i'll brew

one thing i learned in the writing game, first in college and later at work, is that deadlines can be a good thing

oh BTW: when did you drop the "social climber" moniker? did you climb a mountain? did you ever even climb a rock? have you ever risked your neck or freedom willingly?

i think you're a poser
Albion

Trad climber
Bristol, UK
Apr 30, 2013 - 05:08pm PT
So, just how many Brits got a taste of the action back in the day then Sid? Any idea eh?
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Apr 30, 2013 - 05:14pm PT
I really don't care for a lot of posters, but I did like this one.

A little Cream for the collective java brew pot.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 30, 2013 - 06:20pm PT
why Zboy, don't you like posters?
every time you "post a reply" you're a poster
and everytime lincky posts, he's a poser
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2013 - 11:51pm PT
Sidmo..I still offer up a cup of coffee between us. Can't be that difficult can it?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2013 - 11:55pm PT

sidmo you have no idea what I have done. If you mean hanging your ass on a rope to show everyone below what a macho guy you are, well, more power to you. Now, try doing it hanging from a chute at 2,000 feet while being shot at from below. I'd love to have a cup of coffee with you to discuss the finer points of your life. You obviously have some sh#t that I want to hear!
WBraun

climber
May 2, 2013 - 01:25am PT
And Sidmo (on what Licky is asking above)

If you can't even do that but still only want to run your anonymous mouth here then you are nothing but a certified coward.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 2, 2013 - 05:10pm PT
“can you write me prescriptions too? i'll take a bottle of vicodin and one of xanax and call you in the morning”

Wrong drugs for your illness but I would be careful when you get the refill on the coffee maybe someone has slipped something in it while you were not watching. No stuttering, sweating, odd eye movements might give you away. Just pretend you do not notice something’s wrong.

zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
May 2, 2013 - 07:12pm PT
well sidmo

why Zboy, don't you like posters?
every time you "post a reply" you're a poster
and everytime lincky posts, he's a poser

What I said was I don't care for a lot of posters, I like most all of 'em, I just can't take on the burden of caring for them.

Since you've made an assetion:

"he's a poser"

you at least ought to tell everybody what he's posing as and how you came by your perception.

Fair is fair.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 2, 2013 - 09:07pm PT
Now, try doing it hanging from a chute at 2,000 feet while being shot at from below.

What outfit were you in?
Mr Roy

climber
Seattle
May 2, 2013 - 10:04pm PT
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 2, 2013 - 10:49pm PT
adios no-migos
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
May 2, 2013 - 11:30pm PT

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 2, 2013 - 11:48pm PT
just kidding - trying to motivate licky to finish - nothing else seems to work
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 3, 2013 - 12:25am PT
tim - youre right - but licky will never care about the peripheral stories, that to us are the story - i just want to read what he thinks is relevant - i'll speedread the chapters on plane mechanics and flight characteristics and get right to the meat, which will be the gist of the story - but his arrogance will hinder him and we know that - oh well - what brand of razor blades was that again?
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
May 3, 2013 - 01:26am PT
there are many untold stories related to the plane that will never make it into any book.

This kind of begs two questions.

How many?

Why not?


sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 3, 2013 - 10:34am PT
ZZbottom

You pose great questions. But I assumed their answers were obvious to anyone paying attention to this thread.

There are as many stories as there were people living in the park at that time . . . more, really, because some people have multiple tales to tell. Sorry you weren’t there – if you and the other skeptics (haters) had been you wouldn’t be so dismissive of other posters. In fact, your skepticism is indicative of your ignorance – if you had been there you’d realize that no one has a monopoly on the facts and no one’s story necessarily contradicts another’s story. You have the right to selectively and subjectively edit information for your own consumption, but you run the risk of both appearing and being misinformed if you choose to do so. So, there must be hundreds, if not thousands of stories out there, and Licky cannot be faulted for including and excluding them based on what he thinks his book should feature.

But that exclusion is tricky, and serves to answer the second question: the sheer volume of stories would produce a manuscript so unwieldy that it could hardly be edited properly, much less published. If every story made its way into his book the project would be akin to a set of encyclopedias. But Licky’s shortcomings, as it seems to me, is that he is content to exclude stories about the sociological impact of the unprecedented gold rush in favor of minutiae about technical aspects of the plane and the crash. Its not that he should omit details about what plane they were flying, etcetera, but that he should tell the tale comprehensibly and use his best judgment and take the advice of others in order to provide a representative sample of the experiences of everyone involved. My well-documented beef with Licky and others has to do with his and their arrogance at my early suggestions to that effect – I was attacked as being not only irrelevant but unconnected to the story itself. That these insults came from individuals who certainly were not there added insult to injury. Licky’s book, if and when he ever does publish (and I will be amazed if we ever get the opportunity to peruse its pages) will still be an interesting read, if only to ascertain what will be missing from the compendium. He has alienated at minimum this source, as I will never trust him with my accounts except in the most generalized form, and who knows how many others whose authors will be disinclined to communicate with someone as arrogant and unprofessional as to take personal offense at storytellers that he could just easily and quietly ignore. So many of his vitriolic posts should never have been articulated – their inclusion speaks to his naiveté. In short, Licky disrespects both the experience of some of the participants and observers and the academic process itself. History and Journalism are proud traditions that he seems to have too little respect for to call himself a practitioner of either or both. And whether he wants to admit it or not, those are the disciplines to which he should be committed in order to produce a volume worthy of the magnitude of the plane’s story. I call him a poser because he clearly has not studied the craft of writing and inexplicably changed his description of himself from “social” to “mountain” climber. He’s a stair climber at best, but as a paratrooper believes himself worthy of any title he chooses. If he likes jumping so much, to paraphrase a popular t-shirt back in the day he should “go jump in a lake.” If he likes climbing so much he should take the advice of a more popular shirt of the same era and “go climb a rock.” But he wants to “go write a book.” For that he should seek professional help, perhaps in more ways than one.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
May 3, 2013 - 11:30am PT
Interesting that you know so much about the book, sid-monotonous. Have you read the draft?

There are indeed hundreds, thousands, millions of untold stories, most notably yours (due to lack of interest, I presume).

It's a book that revolves around drug dealers, a topic of marginal interest to most. My interest is because I knew or was acquainted with many of the big traders of the day. Some were very clever. I would bet that some of their undiscovered techniques are in use today.

I certainly don't hate anybody that posts on this thread and of course


Think about it.


Wish I could linger and chat, but the UV index is climbing. Gotta go.




zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
May 3, 2013 - 02:44pm PT
^now you're a fortune teller

I'm going down the road feeling bad now that I'm not up to your [puny] standard.

Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 6, 2013 - 05:32am PT
sidmo...since you've deactived your email, my offer for a cup of coffee to discus your airplane history still stands. You up to the offer? I'm good with it....you? Just name the place, the time, and I'll be there. Its pretty simple.
Nitrox

climber
Norcal
May 17, 2013 - 01:02am PT
Wow, deep subject?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 17, 2013 - 01:03am PT
Come on sidmo. This is what you've wanted all along. Just let me know where and when. You can even use my email and no one will know except you and me.
Mr Roy

climber
Seattle
May 17, 2013 - 03:09am PT
Sidmo, don't do it !!

I got new info..
Mr Roy

climber
Seattle
May 18, 2013 - 11:38am PT
Greetings from a Fellow SuperTopo Member!

This message has been sent from a fellow registered SuperTopo climbing member to you.

The message is:
I thought we had a deal, you'd leave me alone and vis versa

Sent by: Licky


You know your insane..

3 ego ridden emails all because I posted the same photo you have up on twitter..

You notice no one cares about you or me any more except sidmo and i think he might have a dysfunctional crush on you..




The message is:
By now we have both posted enough on the internet that with a little internet savey we can figure out who is who. Me? I've posted my name, my phone number, and my city on this forum. If you want to play this game of outing, I'll be happy to take up the challenge. You good for it?

Sent by: Licky


The message is:
You sure you want to do this?

**
You sure are a fun guy Rick. Happy Anniversary, bra.**
*
Topic Author's Original Post - May 21, 2005 - 07:35pm PT

In 1977 a plane loaded with dope crashed into Lower Merced Pass Lake. I knew the pilot and his wife since high school. His wife and I are working on co-authoring a book about the incident. I am looking for anyone that can recall any stories about what went on in the area during the first few weeks following the crash. We are not looking to expose anyone, we are looking for stories to add to what we already knew happened up to that night.I have talked to a few ex park employees that were there at the time and have gotten their take on things. Anyone else?
***
Psilocyborg

climber
May 18, 2013 - 03:10pm PT
Sidmo is doing so much to call attention to the book, I assume he is on Licky's payroll. Or an alter ego? ;-)
Mr Roy

climber
Seattle
May 22, 2013 - 08:49pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Mr Roy

climber
Seattle
May 27, 2013 - 03:06am PT
Licky
9:05 PM (2 hours ago)

to me
Greetings from a Fellow SuperTopo Member!

This message has been sent from a fellow registered SuperTopo climbing member to you.

The message is:
So Mr. Roy...you good for a cup of joe? Want to talk about old times? Pick your time and place. I'll meet you there. You must have a lot of stories about this incident. I'd love to hear them.

Sent by: Licky


So is this a bot or have the PTB put a new employe in as the Licky avatar?

The real Rick S. would know better.. maybe..

edit:

It reminds me of getting a letter from the debt collection..
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 29, 2013 - 11:51pm PT
Thinking of you Roy

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line, the men come and take you away

Its funny Roy. I have outted myself. I have posted my name, the city I live in, and my phone number. For some reason you want to play the master detective and post photos of me and the history of my school life as if this will make me shrink into the shadows. The one thing you've not unearthed is me.

And to think that I am very familiar with Marginal Way. Who would have thought?
Mr Roy

climber
Seattle
May 30, 2013 - 02:45am PT
Good, come by and say hi. I'm well known in the community..

BTW there is no reason to be afraid of each other.. I really know nothin' . Those times were like 5 lifetimes ago. But if you want to come by and ask MW is there 24/7. Right down the hill from Highpoint.

But I would rather talk about my trip to India..

slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
May 30, 2013 - 03:34am PT
Hey Licky! Just wondering where you're at with the book. I know that this thread gets cumbersome at times but some people really do just want to know.

How far out before publication? Still doing research? Writing text?

Please PM me if you want to keep it out of circulation.
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
May 30, 2013 - 09:16am PT
think i brought this up previously, let me think about it for a second or two ... oh yeah, purdy shur i did. uh huh. and nobody responded, so i'll try again. anybody remember the well known climber/park employee (or maybe it was his wife/gf/significant other (ferget) that was such (park employee) and he was reaping the benefits, wudeVah. i have conveniently fergot his name (LOL) so no worries, eh? anyway, and as the story goes/went, there was a lot of coke on the plain. dunno, never made it up there like i have said, i was a day late (1 f'n day) and at leat a dollar short. but, evidently, he was right on time (and not short of any bucks i might add) b'cuz he managed (or perhaps he simply finagled) to take a chopper up there early on, load it up to the hilt with not only weed, but a lot of coke, and then fly the bird back over to the freznoid vicinity. hey, i heard it from more than one peeps that were closely associated with his crew. i been through this thread at least once, beginning to end, and i ain't heard nothing about that. and, i know there was coke on the plane. plus, i have already recounted how one of my dearest of friends, who heard it directly from the horses mouth, told me that the fbi/dea/etc. were claiming that there wasn't only coke, but heroin on board the plane. and i know there was plenty of snow in the valley that summer. cudda came from sf, and much of it most likely did. anyway, probably shudda just avoided even clicking on this thread, have been cuz it seems to run its course already, and i've got more important things to do this morning, so...continue on!

edit: plus, as far as i'm concerned, don't really give a sh#t about it nor any book. it's all history, AFAIC! but i do care about what happened to one of my good friends, and still suspect he cud'da been murdered. ya all know who i'm talkin' about. so i just wanted to add, 'their ain't no rest for the wicked' and there ain't never gonna be...cuz eternity is a very long time. so best come clean while there's still time to do so...just sayin'!!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2013 - 07:10pm PT
Two major issues are, 1) why did they crash in the first place and 2) was it caused by someone or group that wanted them to crash?

I want evidence to either dispel or support the argument. Not the stuff that Hollywood puts into their movies or that some of the published books contain.

To get this information from the Feds has been tedious. I submit a FOIA request and get a wealth of info. Then during the reading of the documents I come across a report that talks about photos taken and yet my FOIA request asked specifically for photos. A second request nets photos. In another request I am provided only the final reports yet they had to be based on field reports that are not within the same files. This isn't just with the USP, but with every Fed agency I have contacted.

For example, I asked the FAA for the history of ownership. I received a very nice one inch thick envelope dating the plane back through each company that owned it. I submitted the same request one year later and was told there was no documentation for that tail number on record.

The NTSB submited a final report on the cause of the crash but I know that there were no NTSB employees at the lake when the plane and its parts were hauled out, cut up and air lifted to a flatbed then trucked to a scrap yard. FOIA requests to NTSB netted a response of "we have no documents or files for that crash or tail number". Then magically documents start showing up.

I know this sounds like whining, but its things like this that make it slow going, and I'm not doing this full time or with a crew of researchers.

zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
May 31, 2013 - 07:20pm PT
Two major issues are

Two remaining issues? I wanna know how many successful flights they made (roughly) and why they didn't use a Porsche or Pineapple Juice cans.

Hi Ric(k)!
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
May 31, 2013 - 07:47pm PT
The government records people are overworked and underpaid and have crappy jobs because people use the FOIA to harasses them constantly. Maybe it's a cover-up but maybe they don't give a crap about this old plane crash thing and just want you to leave them alone.

Going on 8 years. Any real progress on getting a book done?

Dave
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 31, 2013 - 09:16pm PT
First,I wouldn't doubt that there has been a cover-up although I fail to see
why there would be one. I rather doubt the plane was shot down and if there
was nefarious mechanical tinkering I doubt it would have made it as far as
it did.

Second, there is one hell of a lot of federal paperwork and crap does get lost.

Third, the NTSB, especially back then, rarely did more than a cursory investigation
of non-commercial accidents. Their thinking probably went along the lines
of "they got what they deserved" so I'm not surprised they wouldn't have sent
somebody in person.

Fourth, they were flying at night by the seat of their pants as low as
possible at a pretty good clip. A very few seconds of tiredness or inattention
and WHAM, you're dead. We're not talking about some dudes in an F-111 here.

Fifth, if there was other than weed on board it sure seems like the reliable
scuttlebutt would have made note of such. Scuttlebutt is rarely wrong, right? ;-)
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2013 - 12:32am PT
Well Dave, maybe I ought to just stop asking...ya think?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 1, 2013 - 12:58am PT
Licky, I don't wish you any ill will, I just think this is, at best, a tempest in a teapot with a very limited audience. I would be very surprised if anything close to a major publisher took this on. If you read the preface to Flying Through Midnight you will see what a struggle he had to bring it to fruition and that is one hell of a well written and gripping true tale with a much wider audience. Good luck, really!
AE

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 10, 2013 - 06:14pm PT

chirp....chirp...........chirp......chirp.....


(deafening sound of crickets, in a mild Yosemite spring's eve, waiting, waiting, waiting.......)


Sidmo, run do not walk to the nearest mental health professional, not for anything flamers here have written, but for your own sake - clearly, all they are after is to goad and trick unsuspecting, gullible, impressionable types like you to reveal some quirk, then they pounce without mercy.

Factoid reminders for newbies here: note the number of posts, go research the thread by section, and suspicious variability indicates motivations likely were never honestly revealed, or Lickey truly has a narcissistic master complex that demands absolute attention, whether negative or supportive - as long as you don't ignore him, he's the center of his own universe.
Had he any rudimentary ability as either journalist or writer of any stripe, he could have simply published editions One thru Seven by now, with corrections, updates, addendae, and so on. His excuse, i.e. something like "Oh, don't want to publish anything wrong/inaccurate/incomplete etc" is entirely bogus, and only feeds his delusion that he has a Magnum Opus to spring on the world, any moment now.

The rest of you mostly come across just as raving a**holes, provoking, goading, insulting, casting broad and baseless accusations or insults, (most strangely to me) siding with Lickey, all logic otherwise notwithstanding.
I hope some sociology or psych student is analyzing this rich ground, for the ways in which humans debase themselves on an embarrassing level, for cyber-bullying and idle manipulation of the susceptible.
What ever gave me the illusion, as an eager neophyte, that climbers were somehow nobler, better, characters than the hoi polloi in general?
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Jun 10, 2013 - 06:27pm PT
What ever gave me the illusion, as an eager neophyte, that climbers were somehow nobler, better, characters than the hoi polloi in general?

Yeah, what's with that? Why would a rational person think that climbers would be more honorable than, perhaps, model railroaders or kayakers? Any illusion of this is of your own making because there is certainly no outward signs that this is the case.

Licky may be just a tad bit behind on getting his book done, or he does have an attention to detail that is biting him in the ass, but deep psychological condemnations like calling him narcissistic seem over-the-top. There a big difference in telling him that he's doing a bad job and telling him that he has a personality disorder.

Dave
AE

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 10, 2013 - 07:11pm PT
rectorsquid

My analysis of Licky is based upon suffering thru years of this crap, with zero hint of an actual resolution or conclusion, as well as having had a parent who had the narcissistic personality disorder, which gives me an insider's view of the affliction and a hypersensitivity/"Narcissist detector" that apparently sets off an internal warning whenever I see too many of the warning symptoms in another's behavior. My diagnosis may be a stretch, but it is distinct from a direct insult or call-out.
If you think my condemnation of him is harsh, well, you obviously have not read or scanned the scores of cruel taunts here directed towards Sidmo primarily but many others earlier. Harshness rules, here, and the poor suckers who get drawn in have been baited, lured, hooked, reeled in so often it appears to be a "catch and release" cesspool of stagnant opinions, paranoia, unsubstantiated rumors and outright conjecture.
The abject pettiness expressed by otherwise respectable figures of Yosemite climbing history continues to support the notion that despite past successes these folks by and large have nothing better to do now than to rant and rag endlessly via hundreds to thousands of empty trivial postings solely to shore up their deep insecurities and fears their lives have been ultimately selfish and inconsequential.
I'll restate the obvious and you can tell me off in another seven years if I'm wrong:
1. I GUARANTEE there will never be a book. Period. Ever.*
2. Because of point 1, everything written by Licky has come to nothing, zero, nada and so all else is proven to be a grand straw man, red herring, MacGuffin, etc.
3. Everyone who has gotten worked up over this historical footnote has been played, whether sincerely supporting Licky, offering opinion or personal histories, or going berserk trying to challenge or refute something.
* 4. If a book does miraculously appear, it will be appallingly short, shallow, bereft of meaningful details hinted at endlessly here, in short, a suspicious disappointment to all who believed.
See ya in 2020
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 11, 2013 - 12:25am PT
AE....do you really speak this way, or only write this way? Sidmo has the same problem. It’s very easy for a few of you to come across as though you've majored in ornamental Victorian Engrish for the sole purpose of drowning the reader in fluff and garbage.

No wait...Junior psychobabble is pretty impressive as well. When you mix it with the Ornamental Victorian Engrish professor you really have expanded your target audience. I'm thinking that I'm missing out.

The end result of your rant is not too far away from sidmo's. Neither work as a stimulator nor as a detractor. I know what I have to do and I have my focus. So I ask you what is the purpose of your post?
Crazy Bat

Sport climber
Birmingham, AL & Sweanee, TN
Jun 11, 2013 - 01:45am PT
I am new to the Taco as it seema to be called. Because of that I can wade through the flames without caring.

I want to thank Licky and everyone who have posted such entertaining stories to this thread.

Licky, I have a coupe of freinds who write historical books about caving. One writes about saltpeter mining. The other writes about more recent stuff. Ive learned from them that you are never done. The best you can do is present the possible theories and the evedence for each. Corrections are for second editions or an authors website. Goggle Larry Matthews and Marion O. Smith.

Start typing. I want to read your book. And remember flames die if you dont feed them or fan them. Ive found the best way to handle flaming trolls is to ignore them and refuse to respond.

Crazy Bat
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 11, 2013 - 02:10am PT
Thanks Crazy...To be honest, I write all the time. I have many chapters, some finished and many get re-tuned as new info comes in. The stories that I now seek are not from the climbers. I am now working on what caused the crash and who might have been involved. There are quite a few loose ends that lead to the Feds. THAT has been my focus for the past two or so years.

I'm not interested in publishing book and then a sequel to the sequel just because I didn't get all of the info or the facts correct the first time through.

I am also now working with a video production company that is using much of my data to produce a documentary about the event. The producer is approaching the event the same way I am. Many of the players in this event have already been interviewed by the producer. You guys know who I mean.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Jun 11, 2013 - 09:24am PT
While we wait with baited breath, Santa Monica killer's arsenal:


Tobia

Social climber
Denial
Jun 11, 2013 - 09:50am PT
Reilly, Flying Through Midnight was an interesting read and a bizarre tale.


AE

climber
Boulder, CO
Jun 11, 2013 - 03:07pm PT
I would not bother a dip back in the cesspool here, except Mr. Schloss asked a specific question.
First, though, notice how he immediately used his standard ploy of attacking me, without addressing my points? Critiquing my writing style in a blogsite is really important; I can hardly wait to return the favor, when your nonexistent book hits the stands.
Second, notice how he fawns over a new arrival - Crazy Bat - who innocently thinks Licky can be trusted, and is what he claims to be. He cannot help himself, but promptly ups the ante, into the Van Allen belts, with the promise of some "documentary". Fortunately, we learn the producer approaches the event the same way Licky has, so we have nothing to worry about.
A few entertained readers like zBrown and Randisi appear to have Licky pegged, and only enter the fray every so often out of boredom.
Last, to answer Mr. Licky, the purpose of my post is as Ali G says, "to keep it real." That is, to warn innocent bystanders and newbies that this entire thread is not what it claims to be, and should be read with a great deal of skepticism and scrutiny.
You squandered your claim of journalistic credibility years ago, and now seem to exist only here, to lure new generations into your yarn-spinning tales signifying nothing.
Put up or shut up.
Mr Roy

climber
Seattle
Jun 11, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
You getting the emails too, AE ? It's his next ploy to try to sucker you in.
atchafalaya

Boulder climber
Jun 11, 2013 - 03:53pm PT
Back in the 80's, I lived on Galveston Island for while. There was a summer where the town was filled with weed from bales that had washed up on the beach. Everyone had it. it tasted like sh#t, but some of it was decently stony. Lots of people selling it on the boardwalk. Some made a lot of money. The story has probably been repeated on every coastline in America. Maybe I should write a book? Problem is that the story is boring. zzzzzzzzz....
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jun 11, 2013 - 11:42pm PT
Seaweed, huh? we had some in Marin too

I’m in a rush you see . . . don’t care to address anything but the pushback by AE on Licky’s populist rant against the Queen’s English – thanks, whoever you are

to Massah Licky: what language are we to use? I didn’t choose this vocabulary, I learned it in school – blame the Santa Barbara taxpayers - if I was raised elsewhere I’d be dissing you in some other lingo – if you want us to ”dumb-it-down” for you then how far down? Have you lost your dictionary along with your sanity?

PS to AE: you got Licky pegged, but I'm just funnin' here - no need for the shrink, I assure you

PS to Licky: IF you want to degrade your text be warned - kids are way, way harder to write books for than us grownups. They see right through your BS without the filtration of egos and agenda
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 14, 2013 - 11:57pm PT
Skidmark...Its good to see you succumb to trolling. Your own lame craft appears to be oblivious to you.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jun 15, 2013 - 02:03am PT
I don't know why I have to jump back into this cesspool but it's like a train wreck...

As far as the "why" the airplane crashed, I have a feeling you might be digging for gold in a compost heap. I sent you quite a bit of info a couple years ago, as I recall.

I'm not sure how much flight time you have, if any, but I will lay out some facts here.

1. The aircraft was overloaded
2. They were flying low in bad terrain in bad weather
3. They may have had an engine with a bad oil line

Planes with perfectly healthy engines and well within load limits have been swatted to the ground in the Sierra more times then I can count. You can encounter all kinds of wind shear and rotor up there even on clear air days. See what happened to Steve Fossett.

If they did lose a mill in the weather conditions at the time of the accident, they were screwed unless they got damned lucky. The Howard does not like to fly on one turning at the best of times. It was always and still is a very difficult plane to fly, and I seem to recall the pilot didn't have a whole lot of time in it.

It's been confirmed that one of the motors is still in the lake. Go up and take a look. If you get lucky, the prop will still be intact enough to see whether it was feathered or under power when it hit. The wing separated just outboard of the engine, but no way of telling which motor is there until its surveyed. For that matter, have you personally visited the site?

The most likely scenario, with or without an engine out, is that they encountered wind shear, and due to the overload pulled the wing off of it trying to pull out before they hit the ground.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Jun 15, 2013 - 09:36am PT
You ever wonder why balsawood planes don't crash in the water?

zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Jun 15, 2013 - 02:18pm PT
I spose they also don't crash on the levee, though I can't confirm it at this time.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 28, 2013 - 07:08pm PT
Wanna bet that if they find the missing plane crash files they'll also find all the guns that they seem to have lost?
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Jun 29, 2013 - 10:15am PT
and for a third time - No.

It's time to get on the wire.



He knows about guns.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Jul 1, 2013 - 10:36am PT
While waiting fore [sic] the intermission to end, please enjoy some fine music by Mr. Duane Eddy and the orchestra:

[Click to View YouTube Video]

What good thread is a thread ( just what is a good thread ) without some entertaining music and video?

I'm sure there is at least one reader who can expound on this. A song a day, keeps the pundits at bay, or least off the Bay Bridge.

TrundleBum

Trad climber
Las Vegas
Jul 6, 2013 - 01:15pm PT


"Save the Bails" ! ! !
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Jul 6, 2013 - 09:04pm PT

Don't want to sound like a broken record, particularly since most of y'all have probably scrapped your turntables, but The Coronado Company, in it's illustrious career, never lost a penny's worth of dope to a plane crash.

BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jul 6, 2013 - 10:07pm PT
Sorry I'm entering this thread so late and I'm not about to go back and read the whole thing. Jus wondering if your still looking for info? I wouldn't say shite here but if you want to take the next step email me

Jus Say'in
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jul 7, 2013 - 02:55pm PT
Where are all the pics of this fandango? Gotta be some and who cares anymore. Anyone who was there back in '77 is like 60 now.

JL
AE

climber
Boulder, CO
Jul 10, 2013 - 03:24pm PT
BLUEBLOCR
If you are too disinterested to read 7 years of pointless meandering posts that have to date revealed nothing, what's wrong with you?

Seriously, without at least a quick perusal of the entries made by key figures in the saga, you will either miss the humor here, or else be led down a dark and winding path by Mr. Licky, the OP who promised great literary and journalistic revelations, only to wind up spewing rants and conspiracy theories ad nauseum.

As JL himself noted, noone from that era has ever offered anything new or noteworthy, having either died or stopped giving a crap about another tiny footnote in the drug-smuggling history of the '70s.
Whatever you do, don't engage L; you'll only wake him up and encourage him to keep phishin'.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jul 10, 2013 - 08:14pm PT
Where are all the pics of this fandango? Gotta be some and who cares anymore. Anyone who was there back in '77 is like 60 now.

JL

So you need to rub it in????

And this story might just be a minor story in the whole 70's pot smuggling deal, but darn, it was the beginning of the modern outdoor gear/clothing industry that we know today.

So dude are you ever going to finish this book????????????

As it is now - it will be listed under "Ancient History"
Mustang

climber
From the wild, not the ranch
Jul 11, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
"Lickety Splickety", from the movie 8 mile, sums this thread up IMO, still makes me smile:>)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okT3_Or69EM
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Jul 11, 2013 - 02:21pm PT
Hope you get the book done. Sounds like an interesting story. A bunch of dirtbag climbers hitting a pot of gold, albeit columbian. Hard to believe anyone would smoke pot soaked in airplane fuel... but it does explain the weird posts of some people on this forum.
Hot and sticky today, but off to wrestle a few pebbles anyway....
Keep plugging away Licky
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jul 11, 2013 - 02:38pm PT
cuvvy.... the fuel got into the lake water.... the pot- well some of it- got into the lake.... the ones that didn't - were killer. The ones that got wet did have a "taste".....

have fun with the pebbles.
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Jul 12, 2013 - 04:23pm PT
Thanks for the correction guyman.
Pebbles were fun.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2013 - 09:07pm PT
Thanks Greg...I appreciate your help
Steve in Tahoe

Mountain climber
Lake Tahoe, NV
Aug 8, 2013 - 01:27pm PT
Was up at the lake last week, part of a longer trip 'round the Clark Range, over Red Peak Pass, then following the Merced downstream for 25 miles. I was hoping to catch a good sunset here, but it didn't happen. Crossed contrails looked kinda cool, though.

enjoy,
steve
http://www.stevedunleavy.com


sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Aug 11, 2013 - 12:30am PT
I had a dream - I was reading licky's book but the pages kept blurring - tell me friends, did I miss anything?
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Aug 11, 2013 - 05:59am PT
Just your sanity or maturity, apparently. It would really be nice if people - especially you, Sidmo - would just let this thread die. Is your life so bereft that you need to keep doing this, or do you have some kind of a compulsive disorder?

Of course, now I am guilty of bumping it as well. Catch 22.
deanalynn

Social climber
Huntington Beach-June Lake
Aug 11, 2013 - 11:10am PT
I joined the group and the first thread in the forum was this one. 2005.. Of course I read the first five pages.. and fast forward to Last page and guess what.. It is now 2013.. you are still here.. No book? No arrests? Where is that Chainsaw guy?
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 11, 2013 - 03:36pm PT
Vicious - please tell us you are NOT writing a book, of any kind.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Aug 15, 2013 - 07:32pm PT
Yeah big daddy vegas climber – you’re like the pot calling the kettle black, an old southern racist expression that fits your rant perfectly – I go off-thread for months at a time, do you really think I need a life? Or does it boost your ego to trash me? Either way, I never can figger you haters out – it rains here sometimes so I go online – sorrrry – why don’t you go climb a casino?
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Aug 15, 2013 - 08:15pm PT
Vicious preditor:

This users account has been deactivated.

Lol!



This thread is always great.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Aug 15, 2013 - 10:25pm PT
Wow Steve, That photo is (by far) the most interesting thing I've seen in this thread in YEARS.

You really have to see it full size:

http://www.supertopo.com/inc/photo_zoom.php?dpid=Oj01NzspISElJg,,
Steve in Tahoe

Mountain climber
Lake Tahoe, NV
Aug 17, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
"Wow Steve, That photo is (by far) the most interesting thing I've seen in this thread in YEARS."

Thanks Hardman
I was hoping for a "trophy" sunset shot, but the weather didn't cooperate.

Steve
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Aug 27, 2013 - 08:48pm PT
SORRY Licky, for second-guessing your logic – you waited to publish until Yose went back in the news – with the daily worldwide concern over the Rim Fire we are constantly reminded of that favorite park with the funny name – not much chance of it getting confused with Jellystone or Yellowstone now, not for a while anyway – after the valiant hotshotters beat down the inferno all Americans will vow to return to the Valley before the next hot one hits – PERFECT timing to release an adventure story about a plane that got shot down in the park by greed and avarice – how’d you know? Or was it an educated guess? Either way, you’re a genius!!! When can I order my copy?
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Aug 27, 2013 - 11:11pm PT
Has anyone checked to see whether this plane actually crashed in 1967?

Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2013 - 10:43pm PT
sidmo...if you want to place an order now, I'll take it. Of course you'll probably want to know when the delivery date is. I'll get back to you on that, but I do want your money
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Aug 28, 2013 - 10:58pm PT
Whaaaaaaaaat? You're gonna charge money for this?

I'm deleting all my comments right now.


Mark Twain never made a cent from books on airplanes and drug deals and he was a lot better writer than you and anybody else on this whole forum.



Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2013 - 11:29pm PT
Nope Z...I'll only charge sidmo

Call it the AF charge
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon--formerly DC area
Aug 29, 2013 - 01:30am PT
Wait...

A plane full of weed crashed in a lake in Yosemite?

How come nobody told me?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 29, 2013 - 04:20am PT
Lorenzo...we all know that playing catch up is tough. Hang in there buddy
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Aug 29, 2013 - 10:29am PT
Oh, that's OK then. Make sure it's a pretty penny.

BTW ric have you determined just how many airplane crashes involving drug smugglers there have been worldwide? It might be a nice tidbit for the book.

Might be enough that everyone posting to this thread could write his/her own book. That is excepting of course Mark Twain.

canyoncat

Social climber
SoCal
Aug 29, 2013 - 12:08pm PT
Face it, if everyone on this thread started their own book, they'd still finish before THIS guys does.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 29, 2013 - 12:37pm PT
I'd really like to know about that 727 full of weed that was purposely
crash-landed on a beach in Baja. A bunch of dirtbags weren't gonna pack
that load out!
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Aug 29, 2013 - 02:56pm PT
Priorities, prioritees, prioorities - wait aminute

Feds to Fly Below the Marijuana Radar (8-29-2013)

In a memo sent to federal prosecutors nationwide on Thursday, James M. Cole, the deputy attorney general, laid out eight priority enforcement areas. They are aimed at preventing marijuana sales to children, illegal cartel activity, interstate trafficking of marijuana, and violence and accidents involving the drug.

As I understand it then, Custer died for our sins, whilst many drug dealers died for our right to be white (punks on dope), right. What Tim McVey died for I really do not understand. What his victims died for is even more mind-boggling.



sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Aug 29, 2013 - 10:47pm PT
Yeah lick and price is no object – spare no expense for literature

Whadd’ya take? PayPunk? MasterbaterCard?

How much for Shyt and Hassling charges?

If I send you $$ does that give you a dropdeadline?

Extra charge for hate delivery?

You’re gonna need a good no-account accountant, maybe even a bookie (cut to scene of Licky screaming BOOK! BOOK! and anguishingly retching like Maynard G Krebs at a job interview)

Let’s all send this con-dude some cash and see if it spurts him on to glory – how much can it cost to slake a slacker's unquenchable thirst? Maybe if he owed us money he’d feel like he owed us a book (BOOK! BOOK! AIEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!)


Oh yeah licker,keep the sparechange man
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Aug 29, 2013 - 11:16pm PT
Now that's some news, did Maynard actually apply for a job? What about Dobie?

I'll pay a nickel to anyone who can id the third stooge (correctly)


Zelda does not count, everybody knows who she is



turd

climber
Aug 29, 2013 - 11:19pm PT
Herbert

zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Aug 29, 2013 - 11:22pm PT
good job turd - but we were looking for Herbert T. and/or Frank Faylen.

next time I see ya that nickel is yours though

rock on



johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 29, 2013 - 11:23pm PT
sidmo...if you want to place an order now, I'll take it. Of course you'll probably want to know when the delivery date is. I'll get back to you on that, but I do want your money

This thread is the most effective troll ever!
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Aug 29, 2013 - 11:29pm PT
Not knowing what a troll is, nor what constitutes an effective one, I will nonetheless dispute that comment. Why not?

As I went out one morning to breathe the air around Mark Twain, I spied the fairest ...


go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Aug 29, 2013 - 11:36pm PT
When's the book signing!
turd

climber
Aug 29, 2013 - 11:43pm PT
Olivia Hussey. (R&J)

I can do this all day



Mr Roy

climber
Seattle
Aug 30, 2013 - 12:10am PT
Hey zB, don't forget this one.. I think it is important to this thread..

"Preventing marijuana possession or use on federal property."
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Aug 30, 2013 - 09:59am PT
turd you are the man, two nickels and climbing

Mr Roy - and what's worse Federalism is a state of mind exhibiting little Common Sense.

“A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. But the tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason.”
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 1, 2013 - 12:45am PT
I know a few have commented that outside of the climbing community there is no interest in the plane. Sad to think that their world revolves around them as it is.

I would invite you to the following facebook page. As you scroll down you'll see photos of the plane before it crashed as well as a comment by a guy the was the mechanic for the plane.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Howard-Aero/152969558064942
Albion

Trad climber
Bristol, UK
Sep 7, 2013 - 02:45pm PT
Hey Rick, is that correct then, what Stephen Ruby said?

"catastrophic wing separation that was due to sabotage"

Implies there was no engine failure but a wing came off due to sabotage.

Someone loosened some bolts eh?

Explains the initial finding of just one wing some way from the lake I guess...

zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Sep 7, 2013 - 06:06pm PT
LOADstar Lightning never strikes twice.

Can we at least get some calculations on the mean time to failure of wings at various torque settings. C'mon now isn't this a scientific endeaver?

How many bolts? Metric?

Was it the Arellano-Felix group fiddling with the clevis?

Why din't they just shoot 'em or hang them from a bridge.

Who was president in 1977?

EDIT:
No takers huh?
Well it was Jimmy Carter and we all remember the UFO Incident

One evening in 1969, two years before he became governor of Georgia, Carter was preparing to give a speech at a Lions Club meeting. At about 7:15 p.m (EST), one of the guests called his attention to a strange object that was visible about 30 degrees above the horizon to the west of where he was standing. Carter described the object as being bright white and as being about as bright as the moon. It was said to have appeared to have closed in on where he was standing but to have stopped beyond a stand of pine trees some distance from him. The object is then said to have changed color, first to blue, then to red, then back to white, before appearing to recede into the distance.

Carter felt that the object was self-luminous, but not a solid in nature. Carter's report indicates that it was witnessed by about ten or twelve other people, and was in view for ten to twelve minutes before it passed out of sight

There has to be a connection. Wrenching and riding aliens?



scooter

climber
fist clamp
Sep 7, 2013 - 06:26pm PT
Supertopo is always a very " scientific endeaver".
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Sep 7, 2013 - 08:12pm PT
Depends who you ask scooter, some would say that this was all "created" for us in some mysterious way. That's for another thread tho!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 8, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
When I interviewed the guy that had the salvage contract up at the lake, I asked him who was present when the plane was hauled out? He said his crew and a couple of Park Rangers. He said NTSB was not present. Through a FOIA request I asked NTSB to provide me with all reports, field notes, photos, and sketches. They responded that they had no records for this event in their archives. After talking to a retired NTSB investigator, he was not surprised. Dope smugglers die in a plane that is no longer being produced for commercial sale.

I have heard from over four different sources that they thought the plane had been tampered with. Each speak of a different part of the plane. The only real piece of evidence was in the fuselage of the aircraft when it was hauled out. A new oil line for the left engine was found in its wooden crate. The pilot Glisky had been told in Mexico when the plane was being loaded that there was an oil leak in the left engine. He said he knew and would have it replaced after this flight.

There is no evidence that can point at these other stories as proof. The plane was hauled out of the lake, cut up in pieces that a helicopter could lift out to a flatbed tractor trailer and then hauled down to a junk yard in Fresno. I think we've located the yard, but the guy running it says all plane crash debris is brought to him and he can't remember the event.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Sep 8, 2013 - 04:54pm PT
Why couldn't you haul the old plane parts back to the valley for a facelift rebuild project...How many gallons of glue would it take to re-assemble the beast..?
Albion

Trad climber
Bristol, UK
Sep 8, 2013 - 05:19pm PT
OK Rick, so do you reckon Ruby is on the money or is he just repeating hearsay?

You imply an oil problem with an engine, but being told about said problem before the flight doesn't really sound like sabotage.

Plus was Glisky just an 'employee' or what? No-one would deliberately down their own plane and waste a full load unless the stakes were higher than the load (and plane's) value would they? Or was there something else going on?

Oh yea, that's probably the main piece of intrigue that's gonna sell your book so I don't suppose you want to spell out what the dudes south of the border told you, fair enough.

Still waiting to buy a copy by the way :-)
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Oct 8, 2013 - 05:15pm PT
. . . etc.

another month, another post, not another book, nor even a chapter . . . nor even a chapter of contents

perhaps licky has too much data coming in from his buddies at the NSA to cram it all into a book

. . . etc.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Oct 8, 2013 - 06:48pm PT
I have to say, this is getting to be almost as tedious as the thread where "pyro" (aka "Medusa" aka Jeff Constine) continually revives his long-dead, self-masturbatory and self-propogated "appreciation" thread by posting endless pictures of himself, many (if knott most) of them self-portraits.

Carry on...
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Oct 8, 2013 - 06:51pm PT
Did someone say Self masturbation pictures?
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Oct 8, 2013 - 07:02pm PT
^ They're no longer allowed on the Taco. They went the way of the boob thread, except a year or so earlier.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Nov 5, 2013 - 09:40pm PT
New Details in Drug Tunnel Discovery at U.S./Mexico Border

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/New-Details-in-Drug-Tunnel-Discovery-at-USMexico-Border-230533801.html#ixzz2jpST9p5p

The destination after exiting the tunnel was a warehouse 1/2 mile from my house.

I'm assembling a raiding party as we speak. It's gonna be easy. No long hike, no ice, no airplane fuel ...

Book title at this time, uncertain. Working title:

Tunnel of Exxxtasy Revisited.







Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 5, 2013 - 10:48pm PT
NTSB doesn't devote many resources to General Aviation accidents especially, as Licky noted,
it is a relatively rare plane and nobody of any consequence is involved. Even Galen Rowell's
crash was a fairly cursory investigation. With that in mind I fail to see how any conclusions
can be anything other than conjecture based on hearsay.
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Nov 5, 2013 - 11:59pm PT
It will be a good book. Keep plugging away.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Nov 6, 2013 - 06:18pm PT



$1,000.00 INCENTIVE

Information regarding the above photo: Where? When? What? Why? And especially WHO and whom/whomers?

Close: less $$$$ but right on guaranteed. I doubt there will be any but you never know: Four possibilities’.

Info sent would be classified and kept classified; would not even have to give your name just the details.

My assessment: I am sure I will not get any but strange things do happen for reasons unknown.

And you would think this thread is dead or run it's course.

You want to start sidmo

zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Nov 6, 2013 - 09:27pm PT
Ah this is just like picking the low hanging fruit. The "credit" on the photo is lostinshanghai.

That's the who part.

Just send me $1000 in bitcoins at the usual address.

What's the going rate for what, where, & why?

I wonder if those tunnel diggers get paid in pesos de bitcoins?
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Nov 6, 2013 - 10:35pm PT
That building is now "Mike's Pizza," 14721 Mono Way, Sonora, CA.

http://www.mikespizzasonora.com


Sorry for the crappy photo. Look on Google Maps, and it is unmistakable. The tan building in the back and some sort of square vent hole makes it a perfect match. I knew I had seen that place before. When to I show up at Safeway for my Western Union?
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Nov 6, 2013 - 11:07pm PT
... the initial finding of just one wing some way from the lake I guess...
Very similar image in my memory (as albion's foto) of a flap or wing part I came across, off the trail below Ottoway Lake back in '79 or so, on a backpack around the Clark range.
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Nov 7, 2013 - 12:41am PT
It's gonna be easy.

zBro,

i'm in, and close at hand (east county/lakeside). but if it's already gone down, spot me some reefer and we can work out the details later, eh?
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Nov 7, 2013 - 02:40am PT
Not bad for a start. $1.25 x 2. 2.50.

What was name before it became mikes
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Nov 7, 2013 - 08:28pm PT
MIKE'S PIZZA OF SONORA OPENED ITS DOORS IN 2004. USING THE RECIPE'S AND MENU FROM OUR SISTER LOCATION IN ANGELS CAMP. WE ARE FAMILY OWNED AND OPERATED, NOT A FRANCHISE.






Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Nov 7, 2013 - 10:36pm PT
Back in 79/80 we used to go to a nice sandwich shop/cafe/diner either there or nearby, and that's why I checked google maps for the match - which shocked me for being so unmistakable. The place we used to go had a cheap salad bar (like $3 for one pass) where we would use celery and carrot sticks to extend the size of the plate "cantilever style" so we could pile on much more on to the small plate provided. I'm sure we can figure out what that place was called BITD.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Nov 8, 2013 - 09:39am PT
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and venture "Mike's BITD - All You Can Eat Salad (More or Less)".


splitter

It was so easy that even the cops could get to it and had it all locked up by the time of our arrival. I guess nobody is going to be paying their kids way through college on this one.

lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Nov 8, 2013 - 02:58pm PT
First wrong WHO.

As for the when one would have to go back in time before it was called Mikes. The name had three numbers at the end.

So many riddles and nothing about the food.

As for the all you eat salad to the right very close.
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Nov 8, 2013 - 05:10pm PT
zBro - ...had it all locked up at the time of our arrival.
Um..all i have to say is...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
hankw

Mountain climber
Camino, CA
Nov 8, 2013 - 05:13pm PT
Pretty sure that place used to be called Station 108
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Nov 8, 2013 - 05:28pm PT
Yes you have the name right. Now for the time or When, Why, What, WHO and WHOMevers.
AE

climber
Boulder, CO
Nov 8, 2013 - 06:57pm PT






(chirp.....chirp.....)


(chirp.....chirp.....)


(chirp.....chirp.....)


(chirp.....chirp.....)







chirp . . . . . .

. . .
. .

zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Nov 8, 2013 - 09:07pm PT
sounds like a bird song

Veneta

veni, vidi, vici

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Anyway, unless you're a square you know THE WHO

maybe not so much the WHAT

32, 33 WHATEVER

[Click to View YouTube Video]




Albion

Trad climber
Bristol, UK
Dec 10, 2013 - 11:40am PT
Very similar image in my memory (as albion's foto)

Not my 'foto'.

I have never set foot on the American continent.

I'm just a student of this thread.

If you bother to read it all, or have just kept up with it since it started, you'll know that all the photos and answers are here. You just have to look hard enough.

Pizza/Salad bar/whatever business started up with 'airplane' proceeds eh?

A few other businesses too I'll bet.
Meme Guy

Boulder climber
NC
Dec 17, 2013 - 10:06am PT
Just spent two days reading this. Firstly, the reader is drawn in by an alluring story about drugs, the FBI, murder, climber hitting the jackpot. The plot seems to thicken as more and more details emerge about the plane crash and the events leading up to it. The reader starts off hating the character Sidmo, but as time goes on the reader realizes that this whole thread is a big pot of steaming sh#t. The author clearly is interested at first, but gets caught up in the details and soon loses interest in his project. This book has been in the works for what like 8 years? Don't give me that sh#t about how you have to research to get everything right blah blah blah. The solution is bloody simple! End the f*#king book! End it! Enddddddddd it! You have clearly reached a road block with conflicting information and you need to add that in and leave it up to the reader. Maybe it was sabotage maybe not but you will never f*#king know because the plane is chopped up into a thousand pieces. I should have known when you said you were an engineer that this would never come to fruition... You could write this book 100 times and still not be happy because you're a perfectionist. Give it a f*#king rest.

Sidmo, sorry for hating you in my mind at first, I now see you were probably the most accurate all along in regards to this book never getting finished. This is seriously f*#ked. What the f*#k!
Mr Roy

climber
Seattle
Dec 20, 2013 - 08:13pm PT
Seventeen months after an American-registered DC9 airliner was busted with 5.5 tons of cocaine, a major international scandal is brewing over a second drug trafficking incident in Mexico’s Yucatan involving an American-registered jet owned by a dummy front company ofthe kind usually associated with the CIA.

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/12/cia-plane-crash-lands-with-four-tons-of-coke-2-2512114.htmlp
Yak-Chik

Trad climber
Phoenix
Dec 20, 2013 - 09:22pm PT
absolutely move on to bigger and better and more recent crashes

example

a Florida registered Gulfstream II jet aircraft # N987SA crash landed on
September 24, 2007 after it ran out of fuel over Mexico's Yucatan
Peninsula it had a cargo of almost 4 tons of cocaine on board now
documents have turned up on both sides of the Atlantic that link this
Cocaine Smuggling Gulfstream II jet aircraft # N987SA that crashed in
Mexico to the CIA who used it on at least 3 rendition flights from Europe
to Guantanamo Bay between 2003 to 2005.


The men flying the plane disappeared into the jungle – including one woman,
the CIA refuses to comment, and the mainstream press don’t want to touch
the story.



abrams

Sport climber
Dec 21, 2013 - 07:16pm PT
vaguely remembered that story. googled it and got a laugh

New Scientific Discovery Links Drug Planes to Quarks

Mexican authorities and the American DEA have apparently
concluded that Mankind’s knowledge of the ownership of
large commercial and business jets busted carrying multi-ton
loads of narcotics is governed, like the understanding of
the movement of subatomic quarks,
by Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle.

The more influential the listed owner of the plane is,
the more uncertain the identification becomes!

http://www.madcowprod.com/10092007.html
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Dec 22, 2013 - 02:54pm PT
Move on to bigger better more recent busts? Those busts dont have dirt bag old climbers fishing for fuel soaked pot in a large us park. Yucatan? Dime a dozen. Keep it going Lickey. I would like to hear a good story.
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Dec 25, 2013 - 12:24am PT
It’s been amusing to read the posts of those you weren’t party to the plane crash bemoan this book and demand with anger its immediate publishing. Of course they want to read it; it is a fantastic story with accouterments of lure and legend for the ages. Those who went there or were part of the real story seem content. Over time, this thread becomes most of the story, all right. Like any such tale based on truth, those who learn of it lacking first-hand knowledge want to know more and remain unsatisfied no matter what. Take your time, Licky.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 30, 2013 - 04:34am PT
Thanks TM for the kind words. As the research moves forward I am still finding a number of stories that no one has heard. Isn't that what this event is all about? If you know all...then the story ends.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 30, 2013 - 09:36pm PT
the end of another year on the ol' thread trail, and still more teaser innuendoes of fantastically interesting stories to be revealed later are all we get for Xmas from Santalicky - we've passed the 1900 mark and are now into the twentieth century of licky's madness - more stories, huh licky? so what? nobody will ever read 'em, and nobody cares no more - an earlier post from someone suggested sneak-previewing a chapter or two - licky'd have to be writing a book to do that, and clearly that's not the mission here - what the purpose of this ridiculous thread is we'll never know, but it ain't about no book - happy holidaze threadsters, if you feel emboldened light a fire under licky's ass and get him to prove me wrong - that would undoubtedly thrill some of you morons - oh shucks, i'm not alienating any of you fine upstanding citizens am I? and I wanted everyone to like me
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Dec 31, 2013 - 10:54pm PT
Happy New Year
Get some more pages down on paper and show lame o sidmo he is a whiney naysayer.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Dec 31, 2013 - 11:43pm PT
If someone is intent on publishing, they should absolutely NOT post anything more than the slightest excerpt online.Post a chapter?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 31, 2013 - 11:52pm PT
All right, I'm gonna lay out for y'all nice and simple - it was Amelia Earhart!
There, Happy New Year!
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Jan 1, 2014 - 09:53pm PT
Hot Damn - first post of 2014. It's probably in here somewhere already, but I think I've developed epiretinal membrane/macular pucker from staring at all this sheeit.

The Jesuitical Bachar, when asked why he didn’t try for a bigger haul, said he knew when enough was enough: “I felt lucky to get in and out once. Everyone gets busted when they get greedy.”

Don't get greedy.
Know when enough is enough.
Keep a good head and always carry a light bulb.

If you get busted, call:



Addendum:

Sorry Reilly, Ms. Earhart was quite familiar with the seaplane and would never have indulged in such folly. That is to say, landing in a lake without benefit of pontoons.


Meme Guy

Boulder climber
NC
Jan 5, 2014 - 08:42pm PT
Little dicky you are a pricky!
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jan 6, 2014 - 10:13pm PT
YEAH HIPPIECHICK, HE SHOULD POST A PHUCKIN CHAPTER ALREADY – THIS AIN’T A PROFESSIONAL JOURNALIST BOUND BY SOME ARCANE LITERARY CODE OF CONDUCT – HE’S LICKY, FOR CHRIST’S SAKE – A WANNABE WHO SHOULD WELCOME THIS CHANCE TO GET SOME READERS TO READ WHAT, IF ANY WORK HE’S COMPLETED ALREADY – WE’VE BEEN STRUNG ALONG FOR YEARS, NOT LIKE SOME NORMAL READERS TROTTING DOWN TO THE AMAZON STORE TO BUY A NEW BOOK TO READ – OH NO, LICKY HAS TO TEASE HIS READERS AS HE GATHERS MORE DATA FOR HIS BASEPIPE – HE’S EITHER ADDICTED TO THE PROCESS OR JUST A BIG POSER, DON’T MATTER WHICH – EITHER WAY, THERE AIN’T NO BOOK COMING FROM THIS JOKE OF A PROJECT
Meme Guy

Boulder climber
NC
Jan 6, 2014 - 10:26pm PT
Sidmo, you're the man!
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jan 7, 2014 - 10:20pm PT
thanx guy - but let's just say licky's NOT
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Jan 7, 2014 - 10:49pm PT
EITHER WAY, THERE AIN’T NO BOOK COMING FROM THIS JOKE OF A PROJECT
This seems to only cover two choices. Are there others?Let me be the first to volunteer to finish and publish the book if Ric perishes before it is done.I will of course be represented by the Arellano-Felix lawyer of choice (lives right across the bay, we used to cliff jump together).867-5309 Oh, you don't know me, but you make me so happy
I tried to call you before, but I lost my nerve
I tried my imagination, but I was disturbed
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Jan 16, 2014 - 08:07pm PT
Gillsburg, Tenerife, Lower Merced Pass Lake.

Something's happening here - No?

Reports are that various thrillseekers and memorabilia hunters scoured the site for guitar picks.

Did the plane come close to going down in the Mississippi River? Was the water freezing?




It's get murkier & murkier, or clearer & clearer, depending on how you view it.

On the 27th of March, 1977, a KLM passenger plane was taxiing along the runway at the Tenerife airport in the Canary Islands of Spain, and it collided with a Pan Am jet. It was said that the pilots of the KLM plane were confused over departure instructions, and they took to the runway without permission. A total of 583 people were killed in the crash.

No marijuana was recovered. [removed - out of kindness I suppose].




Draw your own conclusions. Where was the mouse of merced during all these happenings?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 16, 2014 - 09:42pm PT
Zman, you're often quite funny but I think it is, at the least , bad form to imply the Tenerife tragedy was in any way influenced by the evil weed. It was simply poor communications on
both the controllers' and pilots' part.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Jan 16, 2014 - 10:42pm PT
Reilly -

I defer to your greater knowledge of aviation history and have withdrawn any comments besmirching the reputations of the pilots.
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Jan 17, 2014 - 11:43pm PT
Of note is that the plane crashed in 1976!
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Jan 28, 2014 - 08:47pm PT
TMJ - which plane?

Reilly - this one is for you (from one of my relatives).

Khoi

climber
Vancouver, BC
Jan 29, 2014 - 09:06am PT
My god...

We are less than a year and a half from the 10 year anniversary of the first post.

Yosemite Gold is due to come out this year. I think you should do every thing you can to have your book available within a month of Yosemite Gold's release.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Jan 29, 2014 - 10:32am PT
Most everybody knew who Amelia Earhart was, nobody knows where she was (is?).


Gratuitous photo of Ms. Earhart nursing in Toronto (1917-18)

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jan 30, 2014 - 07:39pm PT
huh? Amelia whats-her-name? and this thread is about what again? some weirdly segmented view of popular culture, aero history and juvenile drug references - no wonder licky's such a no-show on his own site, even he must be embarrassed by the digression
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Jan 30, 2014 - 09:22pm PT
mo sid, mo sid (what no applause?)

a little tunnel vision there, eh sid?

you better free your mind instead

but keep on truckin'


Anyway, the only thing interesting about this thread is the digressions, you on the other hand, as has been pointed out repeatedly, are not.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jan 31, 2014 - 11:14am PT
c'mon Z-pac - you're smarter than this . . . wasting your intellect and obvious talent on a silly Licky-stained internet thread seems beneath you somehow - why don't you join the lickster for the oft-mentioned "cup of coffee" he's always offering me and help him finish his chore . . . since he's clearly not up to the task - if you have the time to post mr. magoo maybe you could lead the blind licky to water
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Jan 31, 2014 - 12:10pm PT
Well sidmo, you're right. This is clearly escapism. Better than TV though.

Maybe I should jump ship about here.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Jan 31, 2014 - 12:31pm PT
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ – no, no, don’t go - say it ain’t so – just because licky bailed out is no reason to quit - Yer right about one thing, this thread beats TV, or basic cable at least – but think about helping licky – lawd knows he needs it, and you could be the stimulus to prod him on to his fifteen minutes of glory – imagine just sitting on all that data so painstakingly accumulated over these many years . . . YEARS!!!!

Help the fella out – you’re good with photos, at least you could edit them – if he’d just post his top-secret manuscript I’m sure we could tighten it up for publication – maybe he doesn’t want to share his royalties – could there be a divorce or student loan debt or some reason like that he doesn’t want to be paid for anything just yet? Maybe he’s worried about getting into a higher tax bracket or losing his obamacare subsidy but we need to get our boots up his ass or this thing will be ancient history
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2014 - 10:30pm PT
Ya know what cracks me up about sidmo? This is all about me telling him that one I don't need his help to write the book, and two I don't think he was there. From that point on his rant became a rage. Ya think I might have struck a cord?
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Feb 4, 2014 - 11:31pm PT
There were a few “bottom feeders” in the Valley in 1977. They failed, they were too late, or they were too lazy to make it to the lake to score. But, there was still “opportunity.” Anyone here fit that category? A few were bitter over their own bad luck, laziness, or poor timing to the events.
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Feb 4, 2014 - 11:47pm PT
Randisi, commendable. Not you by any measure. It is an interesting story. And, there were scumbags wandering around the Valley after the events settled in 1977 and 1978 scamming everyone. That's what I mean.
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Feb 5, 2014 - 12:02am PT
Swirling snowflakes, but nothing else for now. As for the test-tube, I'm still coughing.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 5, 2014 - 04:15pm PT
Ah licky - the more you think you have it all figured out the less you realize - what is it about a mystery that prods you into rushing your judgment and jumping to conclusions? Would it be too much for you to admit that you're stumped about certain things? Keep guessing about my motives if you must, but anything that takes your mind off your task is counterproductive at best, and self-indulgent at worst. This ain't about you licky, or me, or chainsaw or any one individual. Finish your phuckin' book before you start psychoanalyzing, butthole
Meme Guy

Boulder climber
NC
Feb 15, 2014 - 08:45am PT
What's funny is how sad licky's life must be to be afraid to publish who was bringing the drugs in. For years people have been saying the US government was bringing it in, I'm not sure there's anyone more powerful than them.

This whole thread should be nuked.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 18, 2014 - 03:33pm PT
So licky's just a fraidy-cat? Scared of the guv'ment? He could publish and then move to Idaho - those nuts up there could protect him. Or is it the mob that's got licky hiding? Maybe he could go hide out in Russia with that whistleblower fella, but then the Russian mob might get him. What's a serious investigative journalist and mystery writer supposed to do? Poor licky, he's done did all this work for nothing, and they may be on to his ass already anyhoo
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Feb 18, 2014 - 06:56pm PT


Couldn't pass it up.

The Coronado Company and The Brotherhood of Eternal Love, now that's some interesting sheeit right there.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

squishy

Mountain climber
Feb 18, 2014 - 09:08pm PT
So, is this like...about a book, still?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 20, 2014 - 09:08pm PT
It was about a book, it became about a schnook . . . or two
Psilocyborg

climber
Feb 21, 2014 - 11:33am PT
I would have rather had the cargo of the Brotherhood of eternal loves ariplane
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 21, 2014 - 11:07pm PT
sidmo, it became about a hook
Khoi

climber
Vancouver, BC
Feb 22, 2014 - 03:35am PT
Licky: Is the book still coming?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2014 - 02:52am PT
Khoi....oh yeah, the book is in full swing. I'm just not publishing excerpts to this forum. I can see a number of wannabies on this forum using the data to put together their own version of the event. Sidmo for one...I have no faith in his ethics so I'll just do this by myself.

There is a video production company that is running parallel to me to develop a documentary along the same lines. We have been sharing data and we both have been discovering a ton of information.
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:56pm PT
Keep on keepin on. It would make the book much more interesting if you could compile a list of all the people who went up to the plane, what they did with the money, and where they are today.
It all sounds fascinating.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2014 - 08:04pm PT
curvy...many have told me about what they did. Quite a few don't want their names used, and not because of the IRS, but more due to their families know nothing of the event and their partcipation. However, those that have said tell it, they will be included.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Feb 23, 2014 - 08:25pm PT
I believe Shakespeare wrote a play about this.

For the sake of correctness, neither the Brotherhood nor the Coronado boys had a plane.

Somebody had a mighty fine freighter, though cars worked well.

Canning factory was useful.


































Much Ado about the 1991 Aeroplane crash on Otay Mountain.


Modesto Mutant

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
Feb 23, 2014 - 09:48pm PT
I think I'm finally coming down from the high of smoking that plane crash weed back in 1977.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 24, 2014 - 08:59am PT
UPDATE TO THIS POST - EKAT IS DISTURBED AT MISPELLS IN THIS POST - I ADRESS HIM IN A LATER POST - BE WARNED, SOME SPELLING AND GRAMMAR ISSUES MAY EXIST ON MY POSTS - NOT SORRY


LICKY - YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN - NO SURPRISE THERE -

I WANT TO GO ON THE RECORD HERE: I HAVE NO PLAN, OR DESIRE TO EITHER RAID LICKY'S MANUSCRIPT OR WRITE ABOUT THE PLANE - AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN - LICKY, YOU CAN CONTINUE IN YOUR DELUSION IF YOU CHOOSE, BUT YOU SEEM PARANOID TO ME - I DON'T EXPECT YOU TO UNDERSTAND THIS, BECAUSE I HAVE ALREADY DETERMINED THAT YOU ARE A MORON, BUT I HAVE BEEN PULLING FOR YOU TO PUBLISH - LIKE OTHERS, I JUST WANT TO READ YOUR STORY, IF YOU REALLY HAVE ONE TO WRITE - I OFFERRED TO HELP WITH EDITING, SINCE THAT IS SOMETHING I ACTUALLY DO A GREAT DEAL OF, BUT YOU GOT NEEDLESSLY PARANOID ABOUT MY INTENTIONS AND ARE DISMISSIVE OF MY ABILITY TO PERFORM THE TASK - OK, THAT'S YOUR PREOGATIVE - IT'S YOUR RIGHT TO BE MISTAKEN, AND YOU ARE - I HAVE NEVER RAIDED ANOTHER'S INFORMATON FOR MY OWN PROJECTS - I SCRUPULOUSLY CREDIT ANY REFERENCES I USE, AND I HAVE NEVER, I REPEAT NEVER PLAIGERIZED IN ANY WAY - IT'S TABOO FOR ACADEMICS IN CASE YOU DIDN'T KNOW - I'D NEVER RISK MY REPUTATION TO STEAL ANYTHING FROM YOU OR ANYONE ELSE - FOR YOU TO SUGGEST OTHERWISE JUST UNDERSCORES MY OPINION THAT YOU ARE AN UPROFESSIONAL AMATUER AT BEST, AND A VINDICTIVE POSER AT WORST - BUT I WOULD NEVER ACCUSE YOU OR ANYONE ELSE OF PLAIGERISM - THAT IS A LOADED ACCUSATION IN OUR FIELD, AS YOU CLEARLY DO NOT RECOGNIZE - I HAVE ACCUSED YOU OF THINGS THAT ARE SUBJECTIVE, IN OTHER WORDS I HAVE MERELY EXPRESSED MY OPINION - YOU ARE STEPPING OUT OF THAT BOX IF YOU ACCUSE ME OF PLAIGERISM - YOU CANNOT PROVE IT FOR ONE SIMPLE REASON: IT IS UNTRUE - SO LICKY, YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN, AND YOU LOOK LIKE A FOOL - I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF A JOURNALIST OR WRITER ACCUSING ANOTHER OF SUCH A CRIME WITHOUT PROOF, AND YOU SHOULD APOLIGIZE FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR OWN PROFESSIONAL INTEGRITY, IF INDEED, YOU CLAIM TO HAVE ANY - IF YOU DO NOT RETRACT AND APOLIGIZE RIGHT HERE IN THIS FORUM, AND IN A TIMELY MANNER YOU WILL BE DISMISSED BY ANY REPUTABLE JOURNALISTS, PERHAPS THE ONES DOING THE DOCUMENTARY IN FACT - WATCH WHAT YOU SAY MORON, WE'RE PAYING ATTENTION
Barbarian

climber
Feb 24, 2014 - 09:42am PT
^^^^^^^^ +10

zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Feb 24, 2014 - 10:16am PT
Anyway, the moral of the story is "crime begets more crime" and usually not much else.

So say you one, so say you all?

WA State To Prosecute Owner of Derelict Sunken Freighter Near Tacoma (1-17-2014)
It’s being called the biggest case of environmental crime in Washington in over a decade — and the sunken boat in question was once part of the biggest drug sting in U.S. history! Attorney General Bob Ferguson has filed formal charges against the owner of a derelict freighter that sank near Tacoma in Pierce County. The vessel took another ship to the bottom with it, and caused a major environmental cleanup of leaking oil. But this isn’t the first time this vessel has been in the news. 36 years ago, it was part of a record-setting drug bust!

Ferguson stated Wednesday that Stephen G. Mason will be facing a variety of charges relating to the sinking of the 167-foot Helena Star. The rusting freighter was moored in Hylebos Waterway in Pierce County near Tacoma, and sank last January, spilling hundreds of gallons of fuel oil and other chemicals into the water.

In February 2012, after receiving complaints about the condition of the ship, the U.S. Coast Guard and state Department of Ecology boarded the vessel and found it in imminent danger of sinking. It was so bad there was a tree growing out of its cargo hold! After Mason was notified that March, nothing was done to move or salvage it prior to its sinking.

It was tied to another vessel, The Golden West, and it too capsized. Ferguson said Mason will be charged with ship abandonment (90 days in jail and $1,000 fine) and discharge polluting (up to a year in jail and $10,000 fine).

An investigation showed Mason, or someone on his behalf, allegedly removed anything of value from the ship, pumped out most of the diesel fuel, then just abandoned the freighter. It was so bad the state legislature had to appropriate $4.5 million for water cleanup and dismantling and salvage of the two ships!

But the Helena Star has an even more checkered past. The old freighter, originally built in Holland in 1947, was once part of the biggest marijuana bust in U.S. history! The Star was intercepted off the Washington coast by the U.S. Coast Guard in 1978, carrying 37 TONS of pot! The crew of 10 were convicted of drug smuggling, two of them after they fled to Bolivia. One of the leaders, a former champion freestyle skier named Mike Lund from Squim, eluded authorities for 23 years until he was finally caught in 2001. He had assumed a new identity as “Steven McCain” and his fingerprints in a child support case traced back to his original identity. He plead guilty and was given a three-year sentence at age 65!
The confiscated ship then sat for years in Salmon Bay near the Ballard Bridge, until it was sold to Mason. But it was neglected and became a rusting wreck. The Star and Golden West were tops on the state’s list of 226 abandoned ships that needed to be disposed of.

And finally, as for the 37 tons of marijuana taken from the Star after it was capture by the Coast Guard, SeattleWeekly.com reports it was sent up in flames in an industrial furnace…or so federal officials say!
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 24, 2014 - 10:39am PT
ekat, are you lame or just another lickylicker? I don't spellcheck this shyt, why should I? I type into the box and post and don't give a crap if it comes out correct - this isn't publication, its a rant/thread - you are an idiot, if a lack of spellchecking is all you can find to criticize then go ahead on - that's the thing about you guys, you look for things that reinforce your pre-conceived opinions and prejudices rather than read each post objectively - the content of that post to which you saw fit to criticize was about plaigerism - do you have an opinion or position on that? or is it over your head? licky accused me of having an intent to plaigerise (do a spellcheck on me acehole, i'm not shure I got that one rite)- do you agree or disagree? show your intellect or lack thereof, not your ass

AND BY THE WAY - IF YOU USE AN ELIPSIS AFTER A PERIOD THEN FOUR DOTS ARE CALLED FOR, NOT THE USUAL THREE - AN ELIPSIS ALWAYS INCLUDES A SPACE ON EACH END - SINCE YOU'RE NITPICKING ME THERE'S A NIT TO PICK ON YOUR POST - YOU AND YOUR LICKY ARE MORONS, AND AGAIN, THAT'S MY SUBJECTIVE OPINION
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 24, 2014 - 10:51am PT
HA HA - YOU PHUCKED UP YOUR ELIPSIS AGAIN, DOOD - NO PARODY HERE - WHY WOULD I BOTHER TRYING TO GET THIS BUNCH TO UNDERSTAND THE NUANCES OF PARODY?

AND JUST WHAT IS "IT" THAT YOU SEEMTO THINK I WANT A "PERFECT OUT" FROM?

PERFECT OUT? PLEASE - THAT WOULD IMPLY THAT I GIVE A PHUCK WHAT YOU BOZOS THINK, AND I DONT
WBraun

climber
Feb 24, 2014 - 10:51am PT
sidmo -- "you look for things that reinforce your pre-conceived opinions and prejudices"

Speak for yourself ya freaking stupid over emotional deluded nutcase.

You are the one who originally came roaring out of the gate here with nothing but preconceived opinions and prejudices against the Lickey and others.

You're a stupid certified nutcase.

You're brain is fried from all the bong hits you've hit yourself with all these years.

You are the real moron here dude and everyone knows it ......

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 24, 2014 - 10:56am PT
EVERYONE KNOWS IT?

HEY EVERYONE!!

IS BRAWNY SPEAKING FOR YOU WITH YOUR APPROVAL? DID HE GET YOUR OPINION AND THEN DO YOU THINK HE COMPILED HIS DATA BEFORE ACERTAINING WHAT THE PREVAILING OPINION IS? OR IS BRAWNY GIVING US HIS OPINION WHILE STATING THAT IT IS A MAJORITY OF "EVERYONE'S"? WAS ANY OTHER POSTER ON THIS THREAD CONTACTED BY BRAWNY AND ASKED WHERE THEY STOOD ON THE MATTER?

BETTER YET, DOES IT MATTER? DOESN'T TO ME, DESPITE WHAT YOU MIGHT THINK, OR WANT OTHERS TO BELIEVE
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 24, 2014 - 10:59am PT
the content of that post to which you saw fit to criticize was about plaigerism - do you have an opinion or position on that?

Academic? There is a word, in Academics, for an "Editor" whom can't or won't spell 'plagiarism' correctly, and whom won't use a spell check out of stubborn, delusional belief in their superior ability...Student.


The all Caps thing is pretty cliche as well.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 24, 2014 - 11:10am PT
AGAIN FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE PARSING MY TEXT:

I DO NOT SPELLCHECK FOR THIS STUFF AND HAVE NO INTENTION TO - IF YOU THINK THAT IT MATTERS YOU'RE JUST STUPID - I'M NOT ASKING FOR YOUR APPROVAL OF MY WRITING OR EDITING SKILLS, I'M QUITE SECURE IN THAT DEPARTMENT, PHUCK YOU VERY MUCH

I'M STILL WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO STOP CARRYING LICKY'S WATER LONG ENOUGH TO SAY WHETHER YOU THINK IT IS ACCEPTABLE TO ACCUSE SOMEONE OF HAVING AN INTENT TO DO ANYTHING WRONG WITHOUT EVIDENCE

OUR JUDICIAL SYSTEM, INDEED THAT OF THE ENTIRE WESTERN WORLD IS BASED ON A RULE OF LAW THAT DISCOURAGES SUCH ACCUSATIONS - IF LICKY'S TACTICS WERE LEGAL IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, WHICH HE CLAIMS A CONNECTION TO AND AFFINITY WITH, WE WOULD NOT EVEN HAVE SUCH BASIC RIGHTS AS THE RULE OF HABEAS CORPUS - YOU GUYS ON LICKY'S BANDWAGON SHOULD CONSIDER A LIFE IN WHICH NARROW-MINDED RULERS COULD DECIDE THAT THEIR SUBJECTIVE OPINIONS WERE SACROSANCT, AS LICKY SEEMS TO WITH HIS ACCUSATION

ps - I USE THE CAPS SOPMETIMES AND ITS USUALLY RANDOM - I'M JUST TYPING IN A MANNER THAT MAKES IT EASIER TO READ ON MY LAPTOP - OF COURSE IF I WAS ACTUALLY WORKING, I'D BE IN MICROSOFT WORD AND PROOFREADING FOR MISSPELLS AND OTHER MISTAKES - YOU BOZOS WILL NOT ADRESS THE MESSAGE ONLY ATTACK THE MESSENGER - MAYBE YOU WATCH FOX NEWS TOO
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 24, 2014 - 11:24am PT
the anachronistic and dead art of journalism

ouch- truth hurts,
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 24, 2014 - 11:26am PT
JACK WENT FOR SANDY AFTER I DUMPED HER AND I SAW THEM AT THE FROST SHOW AT STANFORD - THEY WERE'NT HOLDING HANDS OR ANYTHING, LOOKED PRETTY PLATONIC TO ME- MAYBE IT HEATED UP LATER, BUT TWO YEARS LATER I WAS LIVING IN LA AND WOULD STAY AT HER PLACE IN BERKELY FOR SEX AND LODGING WHILE I WAS IN TOWN FOR CONCERTS - NEVER SAW OR HEARD ANYTHING FROM JACKASS THEN

IF I BUMMING OFF HIPPIES IN CURRY AS YOU CLAIM, WHAT SPECIFICALLY DID I GET FROM YOU? I DID SCALP TICKETS AS YOU SAY, BUT DUE TO THE RARITY OF SOLD-OUT EVENTS I ALMOST ALWAYS HAD TO SELL THEM FOR REGULAR COST OR LESS - I MADE MONEY BY PURCHASING IN BULK AT A DISCOUNT, PRETTY MUCH LIKE ANY OTHER ENTREPRENUER - I MADE MORE THAN CURRY EMPLOYEES AND I SUPPOSE SOME RESENTED THAT, AND MY FREEDOM - NOW, I DID TAKE ADVANTAGE OF Y.P.& C.CO. BY LIVING IN HOUSING FREE AND EATING FREE IN THE CAFETERIA, AHWAHNEE DINING ROOM AND SWEET SHOPPE - BUT THE LAST TIME II CHECKED, THE MANAGERS AT CURRY WERE NOT HIPPIES BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION

HOPE THAT WAS PITHY ENOUGH FOR YOU
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 24, 2014 - 11:28am PT
THAT WAS PITHY ENOUGH
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 24, 2014 - 11:45am PT
Pithy with a lisp is the new ST black.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 24, 2014 - 12:10pm PT

ARE YOU CERTAIN? OR SHOULD I WASTE TIME HITTING THE BOLD KEY?**Bold

OR ITALICS?

but, what do you think about licky's accusation? am I a plaigerist?
goatboy smellz

climber
लघिमा
Feb 24, 2014 - 12:36pm PT
PITHY with a listhp ith STHILL PITHY!


Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Feb 24, 2014 - 12:37pm PT
worthy of bumping just for zBrown's cut'n'paste

Sid, I now understand your sensitivity about plagiarism, that guy Jack really scarred you.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 24, 2014 - 01:00pm PT
look, you armchair shrinx need a life - jackass didn't scar me, although it is a shame to lose a friend over a tramp - the bytch in question was one that I was well shed of as she was as delusional as some of the posters here - but, she was a goodlooker, and I fell for that like I always have - but for those who know, jack had a rep for going after his best friends' wives and girlfriends - he was painfully shy with unattached women, but articulate, funny and kind to attached women - I don't pretend to understand it, i'm not trained to figure out psychos, but I saw him in action enough to know he was challenged with women - but he was smart, had great tastes in music, and was a phenomenal photographer - in fact, if he's reading this i'd like to buy some photos, but he was never a climber . . . or athlete of any sorts - and certainly not anyone who "stole" a gal from me or anyone else - i'm not scarred, and i'm not scared, and i'm not a plaigeriser
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Feb 24, 2014 - 01:18pm PT
"look, you armchair shrinx need a life"









*writes defensive post about his personal life from 35 years ago*












I like to call this piece "leading by example"
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 24, 2014 - 04:41pm PT


more like "reading by microscope" than "leading by example"

I've got bifocals but cant read that stat sheet

maybe you should write the book about the thread - that'll fascinate the public
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Feb 24, 2014 - 10:09pm PT
This then, explains why the drug plane, submarined?


EDIT: Good thought Randini, but we're shooting for 197,700. By then Ric will have finished the book and everybody else? fe dead.


zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Feb 24, 2014 - 10:15pm PT
In an interesting turn of events, I decided to read some of this drivel.

I'll observe that the "pith helmet" is really nothing other than Da Brim and further that this one looks suspiciously like a patent infringement on my design. http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1844654&msg=1845206#msg1845206


Additionally, "pithing" has long since been abandoned for 3-D computer modeling and simulation.

Just say no, please.

Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Feb 24, 2014 - 10:41pm PT

Rumpelstiltskin claimed to be able to spin gold out of hay. For some here, it didn't work, and they're pretty bitter about it.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 25, 2014 - 08:57am PT
what no attacks last nite? you licksters are getting lazy - surely I've given you enough to run with for a few more pearls of witty repartee - and isn't this about the point where licky himself gets off his throne and darts me with one of his poignant jabs, only to disappear for another extended hiatus?

c'mon, bring it on haters - HEIL LICKY!!!
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 25, 2014 - 09:07am PT
PS
don't forget to tell me how stupid I am without addressing my questions about licky's professionalism, or lack thereof - i'm SO phuckin stupid that I need constant reminders from the ST intellegencia - truth is, I can remember 1977 but cant remember the last post that told me how stupid I am, but that's what I get for being so stupid - of course, I could blame my short-term memory loss on plane weed I smoked that was laced with fuel, but it would be just as big a lie as if I told you it came from the paraquat on the mex going around back then - no, it's selective memory loss I have going, I just forget the posts you guys are so generous with - I really do appreciate your efforts to help me through this mental health crisis - you've saved my health care provider much money on therapy that I, frankly, have not needed - why see a shrink when I have all of you to shrink my head for me?

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 25, 2014 - 09:21am PT
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Feb 25, 2014 - 11:35am PT
Yes Senor Randisi. (Apologies to Townes)

All the federales say
They could have had it any day
They only let it slip away
Out of kindness I suppose

Keep on hammerin' sidmo, eventually you'll knock 'em all down. Teach peace and stay pure, keep a good head and ...




Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Feb 25, 2014 - 11:53am PT
. . . . chirp chirp . . . .
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Feb 25, 2014 - 12:06pm PT
phthetic, SIDLESS.

You don't want friends you want an entourage, idoit.

Y edit yourself?

U obiously are prefect as U R.

A Prefect Idoit.

I do it, idiot.

It is far too late to hate U.

I simply DESPISE YOUR ATTITUDE.

edit: Edit, that is, is waht I do.

I fart in you're capital I and your small case is just that.

She could not find it is Y she left U.

This is soooo much fun!

My tongue is gonna be in my cheek all frickin' day, so I owe U, but I'm dashing the check, but I will leave U a tip:

Go find yourself and fuk him.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 25, 2014 - 12:51pm PT
if my posts bother licky so much he has the opportunity to prove me wrong - not by hiding behind you sycophants, bootlickers, brownnosers and toadies but by publishing - nothing less will suffice - he has solicited personal and sensitive info from strangers under the guise of authorship and at some point he needs to put up or shut-the-phuck-up - a chapter in pre-release would at least show that he is sincere about the effort, if not the success and if he thinks that he is in danger of his text being pirated by literary poachers, as he seems to think I am, he could do like his fed heroes and redact enough from his text to render it worthless and yet still show that he has made progress toward his stated goal - otherwise he is a fraud - the question is how long is too long to perpetuate a project and keep it from becoming a hoax - many people would think all these years would be sufficient, and if not then how long is enough and how long is too long?

if licky is not a fraud than he should publish - i'm so happy now that I never felt empowered to tell him what I know - he takes that reticence to mean that I know nothing, but I aint no sgt. Shultz - there are two cohorts that I have been unable to locate after these decades apart, and without their explicit approval and permission it would be unethical for me to say anything about the incident - licky himself alludes to this when he writes about plane veterans having families and careers to consider before releasing details that, while perhaps outside the bounds of statutes of limitation, details that could lead to embarrassment for others - but he instead chastises those like myself who choose to hold back - phuck him - he's a greedy, self-centered and selfish jerk so in love with himself that the normal rules of behavior are not applicable - or at least he would like it to be so
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 25, 2014 - 12:53pm PT
At the very least an excerpt seems in order at this time.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 12:56pm PT
if licky is not a fraud than he should publish

Much easier said than done, as he is finding out.

Why don't you use a couple of aliases and give Licky yer story? I don't
see how that would diminish the weight or importance. In fact, I would be
surprised if Licky used anybody's real name unless they were deceased, but
I'm no lawyer, thank god.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 25, 2014 - 12:58pm PT
Hey Reilly do you know what you've got when you have a dozen lawyers up to their necks in concrete?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 12:59pm PT
Phukked up concrete?
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 25, 2014 - 01:00pm PT
Not enough concrete.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 25, 2014 - 01:03pm PT
Reilly- the answer is that I see no reason to - there's nothing in it for me, and if it is advantageous to licky then he should address my concerns directly, instead of dissing me in a misguided attempt to discredit me - if he's not a fed or worse, how are we to know? if he thinks I don't know anything about the writing process in particular and journalism in general then he is simply mistaken - not evil, just plain wrong - I've worked on many projects not unlike this one he's doing, and his approach is uniquely unprofessional - and no matter what you or he may think, that is not my fault . . . or chainsaw's or anyone else's - licky's screwing this up because he's screwing it up, not anyone else - publish now and do a sequel if you get more data licky, but quit yanking your pud and git 'er done.

this thread is approaching its second millennium - isn't that long enough? and in little more than a year it will be multi-decadal - will that be enough?
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Feb 25, 2014 - 02:12pm PT
Time to put up or shut up......

A chapter or two, would be nice.

otherwise he is full of it
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 25, 2014 - 02:12pm PT
Anybody get ME TV? Reruns, reruns and more reruns

Todays offering:


Dragnet
Episode: The Big Shipment
S10, E16
(First Aired: Dec. 28, 1967)
When a plane crashes, a large amount of narcotics is found aboard -- but the pilot is missing.



Licky you might get some ideas about filming your "story" from Jack Webb
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Feb 25, 2014 - 02:54pm PT
Maybe you should go outside for a little while before you stroke out
















*cue page-long defensive post chock full of personal details
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Feb 25, 2014 - 03:35pm PT
I seem to maybe have broken thru the pack ice built up around this plane wreck of a thread.

Sidmo, I'm not one to retract with no good reason.

But I will apologize for my brief rant.

I have to watch outbursts of temper because of heart issues (blood pressure, COPD, just being excitable in the way mice are in general). And I seem to have just broken my commitment not to be snide in my posts here, at the same time.

It is good that you've called out the OP, and I am certainly no licker of boots, butts, or behinds. I'm not doing so now.

A man who does not produce in a timely manner is suspect. The nature of the internet is still being discovered by slow learners and failed Luddites like me.

Stupid is as stupid does. Likewise, foot-draggers are only capable of being judged as such when they perform in that manner, and Lickey fits the shoe, to use a reversal of the common metaphor.

Get off yer ass, LICKEY LOUSE.

We need to see your true colors.

Are you whom/what you say or ARE YOU A FED? I would not put it past the gangsters of law to pull shiv like this.

Here's to the FMAF! Raise the mescal bottle and kiss the worm!
Making fat cats squirm is how The Flames of Campo Quatro burn!
[Click to View YouTube Video]I know the way to San Jose, FWIW.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Feb 25, 2014 - 05:29pm PT


“Fool, The Fool, or Fools may refer to: Foolishness, the quality of having poor judgment or little intelligence. A jester, a clown, a harlequin, a buffoon.”

Fools come in various shades of colour, Sidmo: which one are you?
Colourful? You do not even come close.


Mouse: On the wrong track. He is not FED, FEDS were too stupid.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Feb 25, 2014 - 05:33pm PT
WOW! That's that clown from that movie! The one with the clowns in it!

Or is it a selfie, Jay? I'm having a fed-up day, myself.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Feb 25, 2014 - 06:11pm PT
It is a selfie or I want to be Me as in MeMe.

It is book of Human Behavior at it's best. As for Lickies responsibilities: children? girlfriend? wife? friends? eating? Chuck everything aside and just write a short story.

I am FED up too. Failure to communicate for one; writing helps to the right people or is that to the write people.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 25, 2014 - 11:03pm PT
I can dig it mouse - no apology needed, lets just get some boots up lickys butt for his own good - sometimes I feel sorry for the guy - by now he's probably overwhelmed with the scope of it all, - as we all must admit, he had to work hard to get all that stuff compiled- then I come to my senses and remember that he is sitting on a valuable trove of interesting info that he can ride to glory and fame - but but if you're trying to serve a ten course meal you still have to get it on the table before bedtime, and if licky was a chef he would have been fired long ago - if only he'd just set a deadline and stick to it, but therein lies the bane of self-publishing - he must not need the money from the book and that's a shame for him professionally and artistically - what if we all sent him like 5 bucks or maybe ten, as an advance on our autographed first editions? Or more - how much licky?

Not that I'm calling your bluff or anything like that, dood, but c'mon licky - you should be flattered that anyone even notices you at this point

I mean, you started this stupid thread almost 9 yrs ago, and managed to get a lot of folks to respond and post lotsa posts on their own time and dime and then you just fade the phuck out - why shouldn't we all feel disappointed, letdown, shortchanged and cheated? We wait, and wait, and wait - and once in a while someone is [nice/naïve/stupid] enough to tell a story or even a secret, and then licky probably begins some private chat with him and maybe gets more dope for the book about dope and the more he gets the harder it is to complete so poor licky gets into this catch-22 death spiral from which he might never emerge, at least not with a publishable manuscript


LICKY - WHY DO YOU THINK THEY CALL IT DOPE?
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Feb 26, 2014 - 12:28am PT
... Cliff Hanger (movie) ... was very loosely based on the plane crash in Yosemite.
Emphasis on the very.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Feb 26, 2014 - 01:54pm PT
Licky

My rant was not against you; FED up with PAIN from other sources.

I rather have someone that gets it right the first time around, no mistakes. Sacrifice is a better word for your time when you have this and other responsibilities at the same time.

Sidmo is just stalking you but you know that, he doesn't. Carry on, looking forward when both are done.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 27, 2014 - 07:48am PT
I hope that everyone who was there at the time is in good health, but we are all getting old. Licky does not have the clock ticking with the same urgency, so his procrastination isn't an issue for him and all the kids on here whose curiosity is not based on personal experience. But the rest of us may not live long enough to read the damn book if Licky don't get off his ass. That may sound melodramatic, but I bet every single one of us in their 50s and 60s has had a friend die by now. I'm not talking about guys falling off a ledge or getting conked on the head by rockfall, but real medical problems taking their toll. Now I'm ok, knock on wood, but who really knows? Could Licky simply be waiting us out so he can write what he wants? Probably not, but he should do more to convince us that he gets it. Right now, based on his reticence to publish, confrontational attitude and argumentative stance he comes off as incredibly insensitive . . . in short, he seems like a real jerk. "So are you Sidmo" you might say - and you'd be right. But there is a big difference: I'm not asking you for anything and Licky has asked all of us for something at one time whether he still wants input from us or not - so he ought to be polite on each and every communication.

The counter-argument is that Licky ought to treat us like shyt if he wants to. If that's what you believe then I really, really don't give a phlying phuck what you think, because you're an acehole too.
WBraun

climber
Feb 27, 2014 - 09:55am PT
Wow!! what a screwed up narcissistic psycho stalking sociopath this weirdo Sidmo is.

Licky under no circumstance should you ever respond to this nutcase sidmo ever again.

There's absolutely no need whatsoever.

Just completely ignore him from now on ......
squishy

Mountain climber
Feb 27, 2014 - 11:23am PT
got it...so the book is still coming and the making of it might need another book...I think I understand now..

squishy

Mountain climber
Feb 27, 2014 - 11:24am PT
holly sh#t, that was the 2,000 post in this thread...lol wow...
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 27, 2014 - 12:18pm PT
Ha ha good one Hank.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Feb 27, 2014 - 12:22pm PT
+10 for the ducks idea, I say we all put Sidmo on ignore.
Meme Guy

Boulder climber
NC
Feb 27, 2014 - 03:26pm PT
Team Sidmo!
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 27, 2014 - 05:00pm PT
It's been 9 years.

Maybe in another 9 the first chapter will be ready.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Feb 27, 2014 - 05:09pm PT
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 28, 2014 - 01:21am PT
" - but he instead chastises those like myself who choose to hold back - phuck him - he's a greedy, self-centered and selfish jerk so in love with himself that the normal rules of behavior are not applicable - or at least he would like it to be so."

So this is a guy that I'm supposed to do his beck and call? Is this a guy that when we finally meet for that coffee that I ought to offer to buy? Sidmo, you need to go ask some of the climbers on SuperTopo that have published books if they have offered up tidbits of their writings on this forum just to show everyone what they've come up with. John Long is a fantastic writer...and he continues to do so. I don't see you banging on him to put up some of his chapters so you can glean from him what you'll need to publish your next book with.

To use your own words, "phuck" you. You are still insignificant in this story, have nothing to offer, and haven't swayed my opinion in how many years that you've just been barking and would have no clue how to bite if the situation came to your face.

Nuf said
Meme Guy

Boulder climber
NC
Feb 28, 2014 - 08:40am PT
Nah licky you're a punk. All you do now is respond to people saying you won't do sh#t. In sidmos words, pluck you!
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 3, 2014 - 07:03pm PT
Oh licky, you can dish it out but can't take it - and now you've cussed me out - shame on you potty mouth historian - licky why don’t you soar above the fray? Everybody here knows you have more class that that - not!

All kidding aside, licky answer me this: are you really so delusional as to think I or anyone else am angling to steal your story? REALLY???? And I told you before, I can afford my own coffee, I just prefer to choose whom I drink with - and I wouldn't want to spend any time discussing anything with someone who won't even come clean on motive (and don't tell us that old saw about knowing the pilot's wife since kindergarten, it's no longer relevant) - you're committed to this thing now because of your work to date - are you gonna waste it? I'm betting you will - the rest of the world can believe in you if it wants to, I still think you're a phony poser - or in over your empty head - or a fed

You must really be in love with yourself dood - or even more stupid than the rest of us here for caring what you think, or do, or don't do, or doodoo - I used to be curious about the outcome of this doomed project, now I just get a kick out of pushing your buttons

PHUCKYOUTOO
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 3, 2014 - 10:17pm PT
This used to be a pretty interesting thread.
labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Mar 3, 2014 - 10:22pm PT
I agree. It was enjoyable.

No new information and sidmo guarantee that it sucks.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 4, 2014 - 01:30am PT
Look ratlab, I've been posting in an empty space - not my fault if licky's cupboard ran dry - you can skip reading any post you choose so if I bother you you're just bothering yourself - there's no way I ruined a threadbare thread - there's a shelflife for everything and this project is smelling like rotten fish - blame me if you're stupid enough to think I control anything - I just flame at licky because, as I've said before, I think he might be masquerading, misstating his intentions, blowing smoke in general for some weird reason - what he is NOT doing is seriously writing a book
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Mar 4, 2014 - 01:56pm PT
After a couple of words that's usually what I do when I see sidmo's post. I choose not to read it. I dont know why I keep giving him the benefit of even those few words.
Some people just want to squander what little time they have on this beautiful planet, arguing, and complaining.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 4, 2014 - 09:25pm PT
RIGHT ON CURVY - see how easy it is for the haters to just chill and stop hating? just ignore what bugs you - why is it that all you other morons have difficulties editing your reading content? if you don't like what you read then don't read it, seems simple enough to me - we will never get the chance to read or not read licky's book however, because he aint never gonna publish - you see, he'd have to actually write the book to publish the book, and he'd actually have to publish the book for us to read it (or not) and we all know how that's (not) going

does poser rhyme with loser?
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Mar 4, 2014 - 11:30pm PT
No, but strangely enough Sidmo rhymes with freak show
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
Mar 5, 2014 - 01:24am PT
Niagra falls is frozen.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2357051/Hey-out-there-Niagra-Falls-is-Frozen

The last time that happened was when this thread started...sometime in the last ice age.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 5, 2014 - 03:06am PT
Is it too lame to suggest that meme and sidmo might be one in the same? Naw...I take short steps, I miss a lot. sidmo will probably find his way into the book, but proably not in the way he'd like. I love research sidmo. You open up a ton of doors for me. I love you man!
GuapoVino

Trad climber
Mar 5, 2014 - 11:24am PT
Licky, have you considered taking on a partner to do the bulk of the writing? It's a pretty interesting story. I'm sure there are some writers out there who would be interested in a partnership. You know the saying, half of something...
LongAgo

Trad climber
Mar 5, 2014 - 03:37pm PT
Probably old news to followers of this thread, but just in case it is news: a fictional account of the crash and aftermath is: High Country by Nevada Barr way back in 2005. It's a very poor read on many fronts but might be interesting for some to see how the event takes on a life of its own in spite of a simpestic protagonist and convoluted far fetched plot.

Tom Higgins
Longago (but not there then)
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 5, 2014 - 09:25pm PT
I see you are listening to your critics on how to write, now try to incorporate paragraphs Sidmo and try to make sense when you do. Right/wright?

Better yet still have a ways to go take more classes


Licky: Thought the same Sidmo- MeMe ? would not surprise me.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 5, 2014 - 11:03pm PT
AT...I think you have some good stories...wanna talk?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 5, 2014 - 11:21pm PT
3,210 DAYS AND COUNTING . . . drip, drip, drip

NINE PHUCKIN YEARS LATER . . . drip, drip, drip

So Lick, you used to think I was Chainsaw, now you think I'm Meme? I'm wondering who the blank you are, WBraun? (coincidentally he was your first poster, were you salting the gold mine? You're like those guys who would smoke a doobie of Gold Lumbo with someone and then sell them plane weed, the old bait-and-switch ripoff)
Lick I never threatened you - but I guess you think you can scare me into submission - you're the one who needs to submit though, a manuscript, that is - go ahead Lick, bring it on if you want to distract yourself even more and ruin the book - I'll stop namecalling, etc. and just say that you have really taken an awfully long time on this project - others have voiced the same opinion, flame on them for a change - our/my/their gripe with you is simple: YOU WRITE TOO DAMN SLOW - that is, if you're writing at all - you've offered no proof that you are penning anything, and you attack your most vocal critics with a gusto that borders on paranoia - hey, I'd be ashamed too, if I strung a bunch of good old rockclimbers along for NINE PHUCKIN YEARS - NINE PHUCKIN YEARS!!!!

Admit it lick - you're licked by the plane - ever wish you'd just minded your own business? Read MOBY DICK sometime - it's perhaps the greatest novel ever written and it's really all about you, dood - this book is likely to drown you like . . . well, I won't ruin the story for you - maybe if literature is as challenging for you as writing you could rent the movie, but you certainly remind me of the Cap'n

I KNOW - YOU CAN CALL YOUR BOOK . . . LICKY DICK
That ought to sell well in the Castro
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 6, 2014 - 08:47am PT
DAY 3211

YOSEMITE HELD HOSTAGE
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Mar 6, 2014 - 11:28am PT

Keep your book writing mojo going!!!!!!!!!!!!!
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Mar 6, 2014 - 08:50pm PT
Who you trying to fool Squishy (Feb 27), that definitely is not an aeroplane (I have confirmed this with Reilly who knows all about this kinda stuff). However, it is the only post in the last few weeks, other my own that I have bothered to read.

What follows is an aeroplane and it shows that it is possible to crash land without spilling your load. Is there a chapter in the book on death wish?




GET YOUR ROCKS OFF DUDES.

WHEN YOU WISH UPON A STAR, MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHETHER IT IS CHATO'S OR VATO'S LAND.









sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 7, 2014 - 06:56am PT
DAY 3212

SUPERTOPO HELD HOSTAGE
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 8, 2014 - 08:07am PT
DAY 3213

LICKY HELD HOSTAGE
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 8, 2014 - 04:00pm PT
SID S [Special] I [Investigation] D [Department] mo [why the first interest in looking at Licky drafts]

SID [Sensory Integration Disorder] mo

SID [Sensory Integration Dysfunction] mo

SID [Sanitary Improvement District] mo: Toilets your forte [wrote books on the subject]

SID [Sadistic, Dangerous] mo

SID [Spectral Information Divergence] mo

SID [Slew Induced Distortion] mo

SID [Security Investigation Division] mo: Anything to with MCA?

SID [Scientific Investigation Division (law enforcement; various locations] mo: FBI, MCA, Park Service?

SID [Social, Emotional, and Dysfunction] mo

“sid”, aliased to “unstable”

* difficulty getting along with peers
* prefers playing by self rather than with people
* does not interact reciprocally with peers or adults; hard to have a "meaningful" two-way conversation

* self-abusive or abusive to others
* have a hard time interpreting needs, or emotions
* does not seek out connections with familiar people

Emotional:

* difficulty accepting changes in routine (to the point of tantrums)
* gets easily frustrated
* often impulsive
* functions best individually
* variable and quickly changing moods; prone to outbursts and tantrums
* prefers away from groups, or just be an observer
* avoids eye contact
* difficulty appropriately making needs known
* severe/several mood swings throughout the day (angry to happy in short periods of time, perhaps without visible cause)

* unpredictable state of arousal or inability to control arousal level (hyper to lethargic, quickly, vacillating between the two; over stimulated to under stimulated, within hours or days, depending on activity and setting, etc.)

ADHD

Careless mistakes/lack of attention to details
Lack of sustained attention
Poor listener
Failure to follow through on tasks
Poor organization
Avoiding tasks requiring sustained mental effort
Easily distracted

Mental (psychiatric) problems including:

◾new or worse behavior and thought problems
◾new or worse bipolar illness
◾“zoning out” without realizing it, even in the middle of a conversation
◾ extreme distractibility; wandering attention makes it hard to stay on track
◾ difficulty paying attention or focusing, such as when reading or listening to others
◾ struggling to complete tasks, even ones that seem simple
◾ tendency to overlook details, leading to errors or incomplete work
◾ poor listening skills; hard time remembering conversations and following directions
◾sense of underachievement
◾ doesn’t deal well with frustration
◾ easily flustered and stressed out
◾ irritability or mood swings
◾ trouble staying motivated
◾ hypersensitivity to criticism
◾ short, often explosive, temper
◾ low self-esteem and sense of insecurity
◾ feelings of inner restlessness, agitation
◾ tendency to take risks
◾ getting bored easily
◾ racing thoughts
◾ craving for excitement
◾ talking excessively
◾ doing a million things at once
◾ does not know the difference between a man and a woman on ST posts. Lacks skills

The wide-reaching effects of ADD/ADHD can lead to embarrassment, frustration, hopelessness, disappointment, and loss of confidence. You may feel like you’ll never be able to get your life under control. blame. The difficulties you’ve had are symptoms of attention deficit disorder—not the result of personal weakness or a character flaw. *No you have a character flaw/personal weakness not to mention more.]

People with ADHD more often have difficulties with social skills, such as social interaction and forming and maintaining friendships. About half of adolescents with ADHD experience social rejection by their peers compared to 10–15% of non-ADHD adolescents. People with ADHD have attention deficits which cause difficulty processing verbal and nonverbal language which can negatively affect social interaction. They also may drift off during conversations, and miss social cues.

Difficulties managing anger are more common in adolescents with ADHD[28] as are poor handwriting and delays in speech, language and motor development. Although it causes significant impairment, particularly in modern society.

Signs and symptoms

Inattention, hyperactivity (restlessness in adults), disruptive behavior, and impulsivity are common in ADHD.[22][23] Academic difficulties are frequent as are problems with relationships.[22] The symptoms can be difficult to define as it is hard to draw a line at where normal levels of inattention, hyperactivity, and impulsivity end and significant levels requiring interventions begin.[24]:p.26

Based on the presenting symptom ADHD can be divided into three subtypes—predominantly inattentive, predominantly hyperactive-impulsive, or combined if criteria for both types are met.[24]:p.4

An individual with inattentive concentration may have some or all of the following symptoms:[26]

Be easily distracted, miss details, forget things, and frequently switch from one activity to another

Have difficulty maintaining focus on one task

Become bored with a task after only a few minutes, unless doing something enjoyable

Have difficulty focusing attention on organizing and completing a task or learning something new

Not seem to listen when spoken to

Daydream, become easily confused, and move slowly

Have difficulty processing information as quickly and accurately as others
Struggle to follow instructions

An individual with hyperactivity may have some or all of the following symptoms:[26]

Fidget and squirm in their seats

Talk nonstop

Have difficulty doing quiet tasks or activities

An individual with impulsivity may have some or all of the following symptoms:[26]

Be very impatient

Blurt out inappropriate comments, show their emotions without restraint, and act without regard for consequences

Have difficulty waiting for things they want

People with ADHD more often have difficulties with social skills, such as social interaction and forming and maintaining friendships. About half of adolescents with ADHD experience social rejection by their peers compared to 10–15% of non-ADHD adolescents.

People with ADHD have attention deficits which cause difficulty processing verbal and nonverbal language which can negatively affect social interaction. They also may drift off during conversations, and miss social cues.[27]

Associated disorders

Learning disabilities can include developmental speech and language disorders and academic skills disorders.[33] ADHD, however, is not considered a learning disability but it can still significantly impact academic performance.[33]

Tourette syndrome has been found to occur more commonly in the ADHD population.[34]

Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) and conduct disorder (CD), which occur with ADHD in about 50% and 20% of cases respectively.[35] They are characterized by antisocial behaviors such as stubbornness, aggression, frequent temper tantrums, deceitfulness, lying, and stealing.[Stealing Licky manuscript] [36]

About half of those with hyperactivity and ODD or CD develop antisocial personality disorder in adulthood.[37] Brain imaging supports that conduct disorder and ADHD are separate conditions.[38]

Primary disorder of vigilance, which is characterized by poor attention and concentration, as well as difficulties staying awake.

Mood disorders (especially bipolar disorder and major depressive disorder. Adults with ADHD sometimes also have bipolar disorder, which requires careful assessment to accurately diagnose and treat both conditions.[40]

Anxiety disorders have been found to occur more commonly in the ADHD population

There is an association with persistent language delay,[50] and developmental coordination disorder (DCD), with about half of people with DCD having ADHD.[51] The language delay in people with ADHD can include problems with auditory processing disorders such as short-term auditory memory weakness, difficulty following instructions, slow speed of processing written and spoken language, difficulties listening in distracting environments e.g. the classroom, and weakness in reading comprehension.[52]

Cause

The cause of most cases of ADHD is unknown; however, it is believed to involve interactions between genetic and environmental factors.[53][54] Certain cases are related to previous infection of or trauma to the brain.[53] Maybe too much pot Sidmo………………………
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Mar 8, 2014 - 05:49pm PT
Sidmo:












Cue page long response in which Sidmo gets defensive about stuff that happened in the 60s
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 9, 2014 - 01:05am PT
So much fun here - it's like yanking tails in the monkey cage the way you stupid apes respond to outside stimuli - will you ever address anything on point? All you morons offer are more ridiculous counterposts and off-context imagery that make no sense but to feed your need to defend your hero licky . . . and for what purpose? So you can cement your vaunted status as top toadies to a disgraced phony - what's in it for you groupies anyway? Do you think Licky will celebrate his benefactors in his moment of glory and not hog the spotlight for himself? I can see it now: "Yes Oprah, I could never have written my worstseller without the undying support of so many of my friends I never met in the rockjock community like Braunini and Lostinshanghai - and my alter ego WBraun, who was with me since the beginning to such a degree that we literally became joined at the hip . . . except that we were so far from being hip - they had my back when I encountered unwarranted criticism from nutcases like Sidmo (And his aliases Chainsaw and Meme) who questioned my selfless motives when my project foundered. I disappeared from my own thread from time to time due to inaction on the writing front and the cynics pounced upon me, well, cynic anyway, but my legions of loyal followers never gave up - they inspired me and helped to keep my dream alive even when my sponsors at the DEA grew impatient with my glacially slow pace and lack of progression."
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Mar 9, 2014 - 01:35am PT
^^^^^^
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 9, 2014 - 03:15am PT
DAY 3214

LITERATURE HELD HOSTAGE
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Mar 9, 2014 - 03:31am PT
^^^^^^^
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Mar 9, 2014 - 06:01am PT
Too easy
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 9, 2014 - 09:23pm PT
Now Brauninininini, nobody ever said it was "easy" - much less "too" easy - Licky has a tough row to hoe writing the book

He could use some help, to be sure - but it would help him immensely to develop some humility to accompany his writing skills, or lack thereof - he seemed to be a reasonable fella at first, as he fished for info to glean from the players of the day - something changed him along the way - he became frustrated and embittered, and then paranoid, perhaps because of the sheer volume of his data, or perhaps because of the lack of same - at this point, nine years out, it don’t matter no more - Licky lost his mojo, if indeed he ever had it - now he's just another angry loser and still just a poser - if he could finish the book he would have done so by now - his absence on this thread just underscores my point, he's moved on to something else or nothing, but he's given up and can't admit it to us - but I'm sure he'd agree with me on this: you are dead wrong if you think it's too easy - writing a book is hard as hell - but he's dragged it out too long
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Mar 9, 2014 - 11:08pm PT
Damn, I think sidmo needs more credit than he is gettin'. Therefore, I have begun to collect the collected writings of sidmo, to be published, with permission of course, in late 2104.

But for those of y'all anxious to get a jump on mother/father Superior lookee here:

http://www.supertopo.com/forumsearch.php?v=0&cur=0&ftr1=&ftr2=airplane+&ftr3=&ftr4=sidmo&scope=all
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Mar 10, 2014 - 01:06am PT
Sidmo.



















Go ahead with your page long explanation about how i'm the one responding to outside stimuli.

You can't help it.



WBraun

climber
Mar 10, 2014 - 01:16am PT
Sidmo the delusional narcissistic nutcase.

Was back in the day in the present and will continue in the future.

He keeps on proving it in his daily seek for attention and his ridiculous rants.

Like he's talking to himself looking in the mirror and there's these imaginary people in his mirror.

We've all seen this from people like him so many times ....... WOW !!!!!

Modesto Mutant

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
Mar 10, 2014 - 02:30am PT
Sidmo, if we were to take a poll it would be incredibly disproportionate towards you being delusional. Give it a rest! Or find something else to vent about.
Synchronicity

Trad climber
British Columbia, Canada
Mar 10, 2014 - 02:55am PT
Sidmo, please take a note from this guy...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Mar 10, 2014 - 05:00pm PT
All I want out of this is a book to read. Doesn't matter if I read it next month or next decade. There will always be jealous opposition Licky. Ignore it and tell us a tale
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Mar 10, 2014 - 05:22pm PT
Don't hold your breath!
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 10, 2014 - 07:14pm PT
DAY 3215

DELUSIONALITY HELD HOSTAGE
Synchronicity

Trad climber
British Columbia, Canada
Mar 10, 2014 - 07:38pm PT
Since licky seems to have decided to go a different direction with his book why not write one yourself Sidmo? Tell the story we all really want to hear, about how a bunch of lowlife potheads scored bigtime and the resulting adventures spawned by the goldrush. I'd rather read that then details about the plane ..... snooze
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 10, 2014 - 08:12pm PT
THANX SYNCH - i'd love to tell a tale but icky would get all weird and accuse me of piracy and stealing his idea, but you are absotootly right - I told him years ago that the interesting part of the story is sociological and not mechanical/aeronautical - I've been fortunate enough to get in on some good opportunities in my life, but usually there were just a few of us who lucked out - the plane was interesting and unique in that the wealth trickled down to so many deserving souls - even the waiters got more tips, and didn't have to hike a mile to do it - hell, Curry never sold so many tents and gear before, even the suits made out like banditos - but licky dissed me and focused on aeroplane hydraulics and such, topics interesting only to a pilot or airplane mechanic - as I told him, I actually was a pilot and my dad had a plane all through my childhood and yet I still found his obsession tedious at best - if I were to write about it i'd take my own advice that I gave licky, i'd just write in in a novel - you know, change the names to protect the guilty - thanx again, it's nice that someone here gets it
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
Mar 10, 2014 - 08:14pm PT
Wait, there was a plane crash in Yosemite? Does the FAA know? They have been looking for a missing plane...
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 10, 2014 - 09:09pm PT
take your poll merced-o, and see who cares - maybe it'll play on foxnews -

NEWSFLASH!!! SIDMO EXPOSED AS DELUSIONAL!!! LARGE PLURALITY OF SUPERTOPO RESPONDENTS AGREE, HE'S EVEN NUTTIER THAN LICKY!!!

So, I should stop busting licky's ass? Why? Because you don’t like it? Or you? Or you? Really? And what about the past makes you believe that all of a sudden I might give a phlying phuck what you think or want? Haven't you accused me of being delusional and worst? And you think a delusional ranting fool would respond to your brand of logic? So what am I - delusional or logical? You can't have it both ways . . . and neither can Licky. I entertain myself here and if you don’t so be it. Who cares what you or I think? Think about it while I drink about it. Wait for Licky's book all you want, stop reading my posts if you must but remember this: Licky don't care what we think, he's drowning in the book project and can't swim. He should never have solicited information from strangers under false pretenses. He's using you, or at least he would if he could . . . but he can't because the dweeb can't write or climb his way out of a wet paper bag with a hole in it.

AND THAT AIN'T DELUSIONAL, BROTHER
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 10, 2014 - 10:49pm PT
IF ONLY LICKY HAD LICKED HIS WRITER'S BLOCK THE PLANE MIGHT HAVE MADE THIS LIST:

POLITICO
THE GREATEST PLANE MYSTERIES
By: Kathryn A. Wolfe
March 10, 2014 07:57 PM EDT
The disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 is not the first airborne drama that has raised more questions than answers.
It’s not the first big jet in the past five years to go missing with no distress signal. It’s not the first suspected plane crash that has taken days to turn up any signs of wreckage. And if some past aviation puzzles are any guide, the debate about what happened to the Boeing 777 and its 227 passengers may go on for years or decades after investigators find the aircraft and pinpoint a cause.
Facts about Flight 370 have been scarce ever since the plane left Kuala Lumpur on a red-eye flight to Beijing early Saturday.
(Also on POLITICO: Full transportation and infrastructure policy coverage)
The state-of-the-art plane disappeared at cruising altitude — typically, the safest part of the flight — with no distress signals and no emergency beacon to help light rescuers’ way. Three days of searching by planes and ships from multiple countries, including two U.S. Navy destroyers, have found little more than oil slicks and floating debris that turned out to be unrelated to the flight. The probe has also pulled in reports of stolen passports and a mysterious Iranian ticket-buyer, though those may not prove to have anything to do with what happened.
Did the jet disintegrate on its own? Did a bomb blow it up? Was it hijacked? For now, the answers are lost at sea.
Here are some of the biggest past mysteries involving plane crashes and disappearances:

1. Air France Flight 447 (2009)
If the Malaysian jet has crashed, this incident could be most similar to a deadly 2009 accident involving an Air France Airbus A330 that disappeared over the Atlantic en route from Rio de Janeiro to Paris.
As with the Malaysia Airlines flight, the Air France pilots issued no distress call. Investigators found nothing more about the plane or the 228 people on board for five days, when search-and-rescue teams finally found some of the tail section in the water.

2. TWA Flight 800 (1996)
The Boeing 747 was bound for Europe when it exploded and crashed shortly after taking off from JFK International Airport, killing all 230 people on board. After a four-year investigation, the National Transportation Safety Board found that the probable cause was a fuel tank explosion sparked by faulty wiring.

3. EgyptAir Flight 990 (1999)
The Boeing 767 en route from New York City to Cairo crashed shortly after takeoff, killing all 200 people on board. After a two-year investigation, the NTSB concluded that the relief first officer in the cockpit had deliberately caused the crash.

4. Reps. Hale Boggs and Nick Begich (1972)
Boggs, who at the time was the House majority leader, and Begich boarded a twin-engine Cessna in Anchorage that vanished while on its way to Juneau, Alaska. The plane was never found despite a 39-day search that The Washington Post called “the largest in Alaska history,” involving more than 70 aircraft and 3,600 hours of flying time.
Conspiracy theories abounded — noting that Boggs had been a member of the Warren Commission, or, as The Post put it, speculating that Begich “had been assassinated by Serbians because of his Croatian heritage.”

5. Flying Tiger Line Flight 739 (1962)
A Lockheed L-1049 Super Constellation prop plane, chartered by the U.S. military to transport almost 100 Army soldiers from California to Saigon, refueled in Guam and was on its way to the Philippines when it disappeared without a trace and no distress signal. At the time, the disappearance prompted a large air and sea search, with its own share of conspiracy theories.

6. Amelia Earhart (1937)
The most enduring aviation mystery of all time may well be the question of what happened to the Lockheed Electra piloted by Amelia Earhart and her navigator Fred Noonan, who were never heard from again as they were trying to circumnavigate the globe. Many believe her plane simply ran out of fuel and ditched in the water near Howland Island in the middle of the Pacific, but other conspiracy theories abound, including that she was captured by the Japanese.

7. Glenn Miller (1944)
The bandleader, then a major with the Army Air Force, stepped aboard an RAF Norseman C-64 in England on his way to Paris, where he was to join the rest of his band. But the plane never reached its destination, and at the time was believed to have crashed over the English Channel in foggy weather.
But again, conspiracy theories were rampant.

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/malaysia-airlines-flight-370-the-greatest-plane-mysteries-104505.html?hp=f1

IT'S A DADGUM SHAME - LICKY'S GOT DEM PROCRASTINATION BLUES
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Mar 10, 2014 - 11:18pm PT
WTF sid:

Amelia is only #6 on your list (and I'll go ahead and mention that you tried to lay the slapdown on me for bringing her up on this thread). If you're not gonna write a book, at least do some editing.

If you really want to get into mysteries and you've outgrown the Hardy Boys, try:

who put the ram, in the rama lama ding dong?


de-ludes - quay-ludes it's all the same to me.





sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 10, 2014 - 11:37pm PT
IT'S NOT MY LIST MORON - I POSTED THE LINK TO THE WEBSITE, IDIOT - READ BEFORE YOU ATTACK, BOZO - IT'S FROM POLITICO.COM, DEADBRAIN - YOU MUST HAVE BEEN IN TOO MANY ROCKFALLS OR SOMETHING, SHOULD HAVE WORN A HELMET - CAN YOU POST WITHOUT A PICTURE? TRY WRITING SOMETHING, OR DO YOU NEED REMEDIAL ED FIRST?
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Mar 10, 2014 - 11:41pm PT
the plane was interesting and unique in that the wealth trickled down to so many deserving souls

Yeah, there were a bunch of bottom feeders, alright.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 11, 2014 - 12:22am PT
MORE PHUCKIN PHOTOS FROM YOU DOODS THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE CONCERNED WITH HERE ON LICKY'S THREAD - CAN NONE OF YOU WRITE? I KNOW LICKY CAN'T BUT C'MON, IT AIN'T THAT HARD - I CAME OUT OF THE CALIFORNIA PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM, WERE YOU ALL HOMOSCHOOLED OR SOMETHING? CATFISH, TRUNKLOADS OF DOPE, SID VICIOUS STEERING A BOAT, ETC. - WHT THE PHUCK DOES ANY OF THESE STUPID IMAGES HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THE PLANE, OR ANYTHING ELSE? NO WONDER LICKY'S LOSING INTEREST, PHOTOS OF RANDOM NOTHINGNESS ARE ONLY RELEVANT TO YOUR IDIOCY - AND I GUESS YOU WERE A TOPFEEDER, EH? YEAH, SURE
John M

climber
Mar 11, 2014 - 12:33am PT
So why are you so pissed Sidmo? Just curious.. haven't read the whole thread.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 11, 2014 - 01:00am PT
not really pissed, I don't care enough to care - I just think this is such a farce - we had some fun and did some things and it's no big deal and along comes some enterprising entrepreneur named licky who started out ingratiating himself to folks who were there and then began to act as judge of us all - if you gave him what he wanted for his gristmill he would curry favor, engage in private conversation and celebrate you, but if you questioned his motives, abilities and process he got real nasty real quick and played like a frat boy bullying the pencil-necked geek - I think he's a phony, and if I'm right that begs the question: so what is licky then? He brags to dopers from back in the day about how he has connections in law enforcement and still asks for data about their illegal activity - all that would be one thing if he actually produced any product, but we haven't seen even a smidgen of a sample - NPR's fresh air program today featured a writer who posted chapter one of his book online for NPR listeners to sample his fare - and licky won't do that for whatever reason BUT HE COULD PROVE HE'S FOR REAL IF HE WOULD - I'm not the only one who's called him out for a sample, but he accused me of pre-emptive plagiarism, a charge that did offend me - but I'm not really pissed, just annoyed
John M

climber
Mar 11, 2014 - 01:19am PT
whoa dude. you sound pissed and paranoid…
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Mar 11, 2014 - 01:23am PT
Holy sh#t Sidmo

Talk about responding to outside stimuli like a [redacted]








you don't care enough to post another page long rant in response to this post



fight it
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 11, 2014 - 01:45am PT
branininininininini - why are you pissed? oh, you're not? but I am, huh? I think this shyt is funny, but you're not pissed - so why is that I am? because you say so? it's circular logic

"sidmo why are you mad?"

"i'm not"

"oh, you must be mad then"

whay not ask licky why he's not writing the book?

"sidmo you sound paranoid"

"i'm not paranoid"

"oh you must be paranoid then"
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Mar 11, 2014 - 01:56am PT
sidmo
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 11, 2014 - 02:46am PT
YEAH YOU PROVE MY POINT
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Mar 11, 2014 - 02:54am PT
sidmo
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
Mar 11, 2014 - 04:10am PT
Sidom.. . . Sidmo... ..Sidmo.... ..


You post you post you post. You talk you talk you talk. You claim you claim you claim.

Endlessly.

So the f*#k what??

This book gets written or it doesn't. Why are you so personally invested??
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 11, 2014 - 03:02pm PT
Jon Ronson’s war film [comedy] “Men Who Stare at Goats” also based on the book of the same name is riddled with half-truths [50%] that goes back to the late ‘70s- mid ‘80s even though things actually happened to a certain degree. The main character [played by George Clooney] died [blew himself up by being stupid] in 1978 along with a second American and a third party in Nicaragua.

After a few decades, [20+ years Sidmo] researching, questioning and twisting the story to his own conspiracy theory: Ronson “So unbelievable it has to be true” finally puts the pieces [mostly hearsay] together.

Problem: The real person who Clooney plays or portrayed in the movie was not Special Forces qualified, he washed out, not Ranger Qualified for same reason, not a LRRP as well.

No Staring at Goats, no dead Goats.

Took more than 20 years and Ronson had a lot of wrong information [well not all due to him but from unreliable sources as a good part of it].

Hollywood is all about make believe. Just take an old story, update it to current events.......... Licky is making sure the truth is correct in his investigation or getting as close to it to the best of what he collects.

People are sheep or in this case there are a few goats: dumb just like you Slidmo. I like your excuse about “I need to get a hold of two people to tell my story but I can’t find them. 2,005 days and counting. Make believe friends, story, because they do not exist.

As for the other parts of the movie that the army Ronson exposed: They were all not that off.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Mar 11, 2014 - 03:22pm PT
say there sid

Pictures are the one thing that you have at least a small chance of understanding

I'll do some editing for you, so you can "see" how it is done.

Change "a small" to "a very, very small".

Over and out. No pictures today. Go find someone to read this and explain it to you.

Tell whoever is doing your typing, that it's getting very repetitive.

I've hit the highlights for ya, so you won't have to spend your whole day on this.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 12, 2014 - 12:35am PT
DAY 3216

PICTURES NOT OF YOSEMITE HELD HOSTAGE
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 12, 2014 - 12:38am PT
stirring this pot is automatic - you mutha-postin" mo-rons take any bait I throw out there - maybe i'll toss in a hook sometime - ZB, are you really that stupid or are you auditioning for licky?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 12, 2014 - 03:02am PT
Sidmo...you ask for a hook? How many times do I have to post that you were not there, don't have anything to offer up in the first person, and will probably plagiarize anything posted?

You mix that with your feeble and lame attempt at baiting me to post something that you can use and I say you have stepped right into the pot you are stirring.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Mar 12, 2014 - 08:37pm PT
say there sid
Pictures are the one thing that you have at least a small chance of understanding
I'll do some editing for you, so you can "see" how it is done.
Change "a small" to "a very, very small".
Over and out. No pictures today. Go find someone to read this and explain it to you.
Tell whoever is doing your typing, that it's getting very repetitive.
I've hit the highlights for ya, so you won't have to spend your whole day on this.
condensed version - this space ain't free you know
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 12, 2014 - 10:13pm PT
That's right Licker - I forgot - I wasn't there because you were there and didn't see me - I'm certainly glad you cleared that up - what did you have a baby stroller with skis attached? So I stepped in the pot I was stirring? You stepped in the shyt you were dumping and that's worse.

And ZB - didn’t I tell you that I don’t bother punctuating for your stupid ass? Well I did now- and licker again, you're accusing me of what you think I might do (plagiarize), and of not doing what you think I didn't do (go hike to a lake) - but you don't know, yet you purport to be informed when really you are just stating opinion, and opinions are like aceholes, everybody's got one - your opinions are based on conjecture, which is highly speculative and subjective - you are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts - if your premature judgment of me is any indicator of the veracity of your data, then you will have trouble indeed writing any historical account of any topic other than what you had for lunch today and what time you shyt it out later - it's not classy for a writer to get into a pissing match with an anonymous flamethrower like me or chainsaw or meme . . . oh wait, I forgot - they're all me huh? What was it my doctor was saying the other day? Something about multiple personality disorder or something -hell I forgot, must be getting oldtimers disease too

zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Mar 12, 2014 - 11:55pm PT
say there sid

Are you having a good time? When I am not enjoying something I just quit doing it. For some reason I enjoy fooling around on this thread. You need to ask yourself the question, why?

I'm guessing that like 98-99 per cent of the folks in the world, you are actually a decent human being.

So ask yourself why.

mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Mar 13, 2014 - 07:41am PT
Rather, ask yourselves, "Where was the mouse of merced during all these happenings?" (From a much earlier post that I could not help laughing over when I searched Mouse from Merced on Google--I am a search object, woo-hoo!).

If repetitive was recitative, this opera would have been over ten acts ago.

This is all just "curtain call."

Afterbirth.

In other WORDS, a WASTE of BRAINS, BREATH, and PRECIOUS BANDWIDTH.

Do I make myself claro?

What happened in '77 should STAY in '77.

Cheese, guys...the dog's been dead so long the flies left.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 13, 2014 - 09:05am PT
Thanks for the vote of confidence - I never could figure out why so many on here focus on posters and lose what should be the focus:

What the hell is this nine-year thread, who is it benefitting, where is it going and when will it get there?

My posts, or lack of same should not bother you or anyone else - nor should anyone else's. and why care about grammar, spelling, etc. on an internet thread? Focus on Licky and get him to put up or shut up - oh, and he should stop assuming details about people that he doesn't like and then libeling and slandering them as well. Can't we all just get along? You want a truce, I'll start. Truce. It's spring and I have Frisbees to throw. Later.
sidmo
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 13, 2014 - 11:22am PT
But, Mouse, people are still writing books about Napoleon, or Biggie Small.
Same guy, right?
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Mar 13, 2014 - 11:51am PT
It sure would be interesting to know how that cash flow helped the fortunate few in their life endeavors.
Who parlayed it into riches and who wasted their opportunity to make something bigger. Seems there is a lot of paranoia over something which happened just after the dinosaurs died off. I doubt any law officials really care, lets hear the cast of characters. Fictional or not, put your pen to paper and tell us a tale.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 13, 2014 - 02:20pm PT
Rumor was Neil McDonald had an illegitimate son years well before he became one of MCA’s many goons.



Was it you Sidmo.

Sidmo had no intention of helping Licky with his book, all his attention from the start was finding and passing on information.

Were you there when McDonald dumped toxic materials down the Merced River.
He thought no one would be looking.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 13, 2014 - 03:51pm PT
Walleye: Year on slides Oct “77,

Neil baby was not happy when he saw what I was doing. Demanded me to give or take film out of my camera. Words since it was so long ago went like this but not quoted: [Me]: “Say again, I don’t think I heard you right” [Neil]: You are on Government Property give it to me now. [Me] Laughing: “F&ck you”. I still continue taking photos. He flags down Ranger, he gets out of car and Neil says to the ranger demanding that I give him the film or else.


The ranger just looks at him and says: Yes, he’s on Government propety and can take any photos he wants to so what’s your problem? Neil walks off.

Edit: photo corrected
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 13, 2014 - 05:11pm PT
Timid,

Been years but is this the same "ED' that I am thinking of.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 14, 2014 - 08:51pm PT
I think SC is onto something
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Mar 14, 2014 - 11:40pm PT
I think Ric and I addressed this before, or was it Sidmo and I, anyway there was not an awful lot of money at stake in terms of drug dealing.

And .. who cleaned up the Lower Merced Psss Lake? Did any of those who profited from the weed participate in the clean up.

Put it in addendum to the book which as I wirte, I'm sure has already gone to press.

Isn't it funnny how "one fell swoop" used to mean a dastardly deed, yet now just means getting something all done at once. Like collecting free weed and cleaning up the oil after.


This is kind of a follow on to the post of my good friend mouse above.

What if Ric decided not to publish his book and this thread just (really) disappeared like the Paul Ryan thread a while back?

Would anybody be affected in any significant way?


Does anyone remember the name of the cop killed up at Lake Arrowhead? Or his dog?







Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 15, 2014 - 02:27am PT
Good point, does anyone remember the name of the second in charge of Hannable's charge over the Alps? Of course not. Who gives a rats ass about the details? Its the stories that make the event. Just as long as the stories are true and have been researched.

Then again sidmo doesn't want truth, he only wants text. Sidmo..maybe TMZ is where you ought to be...ya think?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
Mar 15, 2014 - 05:52am PT
does anyone remember the name of the second in charge of Hannable's charge over the Alps?

It's Hannibal. Do better research. The name means "Grace of Ba'al"

And that's easy. His brother Hazdrubal.

( not to be confused with his uncle Hazdrubal)

He was killed in Northern Italy trying to reinforce Hannibal's forces.

And his story is a lot more interesting than endless posts on a vaporbook.

zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Mar 15, 2014 - 11:40pm PT
Its the stories that make the event.

So go ahead and tell it. Mind you, I'm not in a hurry, there is so much in the world that I haven't read that I can always find something when my eyes are not too tired, but I was kind of looking forward to reading this story. Why you ask? It beats the sheeit outa me, except that I stumbled in here a few years back.

OK. So does anyone remember the story of the cop who got killed up in Arrowhead. I doubt it.

His name wasn't Hannabull nor Hanna Arendt, nor hantavirus, but rather

Christ(opher) Dorner. Don't confuse with Donner, that's another story.

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 16, 2014 - 12:03am PT
Donner?

They didn't need an invitation on the fridge saying "Lets eat"
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Mar 16, 2014 - 05:53am PT
Sidmo, for someone that keeps claiming they don't care enough to care etc, you sure do a lot of posting. Month after month, year after year you bump this thread. Never seem to realize that if you just stopped posting, this would go into the woodpile with all the other dead threads.

You obviously have some mental health issues, that's the only reason for someone to keep obsessing and attacking a person for such an extended length of time. Get some help.
Albion

Trad climber
Bristol, UK
Mar 19, 2014 - 06:37pm PT
Sidmo is clearly just a sad old dick who ain't got a life. Grow the f*ck up.
Meme Guy

Boulder climber
NC
Mar 21, 2014 - 10:05pm PT
God this is painful to watch! I hope licky has a heart attack already.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Mar 21, 2014 - 11:24pm PT
More than 25 copies sold.

ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Mar 22, 2014 - 10:52pm PT
http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/plane-carrying-marijuana-crashes-near-san-diego-1
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 23, 2014 - 02:35am PT
MemeGuy/sidmo...jeebus...who is to say is who? Come on sidmo. At least I've posted my name, city, and phone number. How about you stepping up to the plate?

As for thinking you are Chainsaw...you've not read the thread closely. Chainsaw was already identified almost at the beginning. Sheesh...sidmo you remind me of my late departed father....just late
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 24, 2014 - 02:58pm PT
Licky, if you want to have it all your way, go to heaven and wait for me when you get there - like you said, I'll be late
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 25, 2014 - 10:41am PT
Licky first you ask me " How about you stepping up to the plate?" and then chastise me "...you've not read the thread closely" while you never seem inclined to answer direct questions. In fact, by stepping up to the plate in the past, I was dismayed to find you spitting in my food. Why should I do your bidding - so that you can continue your farcical charade? Who the phuck has time to read your idiotic thread closely? Just because I post occasionally along with others don't think that we don't have other shyt to do. I only kill time on here. When I do parse your thread, I uncover nuggets like this:

_

Mustang
climber
From the wild, not the ranch
Mar 17, 2010 - 03:56pm PT
5 yrs to write a book that for all accounts; 1. Won't be a major literary piece of work. 2. Won't be a major historical piece of work. 3. Story line has already been adapted as a script for a major motion pic. 4. Will have very little main stream appeal. 5. Gets people on this forum really worked up. 6. Proving to be the longest running and most effective troll.

methinks author is still looking for a publisher, thus the so-called lengthy 'research' card always being played :)

__


Perhaps I've been wrong. Perhaps.
Perhaps Licky does have a manuscript but cannot attract a publisher. Perhaps.

Or:

Perhaps I'm right. Perhaps Licky has something to hide regarding his motives. Perhaps.

Or Licky, should I say "maybe" so that you don't get all confused and stuff?

Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Mar 25, 2014 - 12:32pm PT
Perhaps you should stop posting to what has become one of the biggest trash piles on ST and let it go "Sidmo."

Grow up for f*#ks sake, how many years have you been doing this. Get a life, get some help.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 25, 2014 - 04:03pm PT
MEME, Slidmo, guy

MCA [former] “inciter” Just a dead head.

Instigate, provoke, goad, spur, arouse, exhort; fire; induce. Incite, rouse, provoke, inflame are verbs meaning to goad or inspire an individual or a group to take some action or to express some feeling. Incite and rouse are similar in that, although they can imply in some contexts abrasive or inflammatory arousal of violent or uncontrolled behavior, neither necessarily does so. Incite means simply to induce activity, of whatever kind: incited to greater effort by encouragement; incited to riot. To rouse the inattentive public to an awareness of the danger. Provoke implies a sense of challenge or irritation along with arousal and often suggests a resultant anger or violence: provoked by scathing references to his accomplishments; to provoke a wave of resentment. Inflame with its root sense to set afire, implies a resultant intensity and passion: to inflame a mob by fiery speeches; He was inflamed to rage by constant frustration.

Reason: he didn’t get to be part of the party and came out with nothing. Just stories he heard about what the real people did. He is still angry but this time no one will listen to him.

Licky: now that I think about it that little note could have had Misspelling in it.


Raining there Slidno?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 25, 2014 - 08:20pm PT
The real question is:
Why do you care how I kill my time? You don't have to read it. I might have stopped long ago if not for the curious attacks on me by those who are not Licky. Why do you care? Perhaps it's you fellas who need to have your heads examined. Why would you waste your time attacking a troll? Why do you protect Licky so? Licky rarely responds in any relevant manner and you fellas seem as if you are playing a role here of guard dogs protecting a failed writer, or failing writer I suppose - if he is indeed actually putting pen to paper, or fingers to keypad. I think if Licky ever was actually writing the book that he gave up some time ago and is now reluctant to abandon his quasi-celebrity status.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Mar 25, 2014 - 09:06pm PT
Slidmo

Why is this post and the book so important to you. You are the one that is making a Jackass class act of this.

Could it be you are hearing infrasound and need deprogramming.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Mar 25, 2014 - 10:39pm PT
Since apparently no one else is working on it or is willing to admit that he/she is working on it, I'm here to tell you that there may soon be an abridged version of this thread. Please send private PM to either Licky or sidmo with your advice on just whose posts should or should not be included. Subsets of your favored/disfavored poster's posts are allowed, but must be precisely defined.

I'm sure that neither of these two will be overburdened by this additional load on their time and will gladly help me out.

However, as I am busy on numerous other exercises in futility, this whole endeavor may be prolonged and I may have to, as they say, "just mail it in".

In that event, of course I'll use the new Jimi Hendrix stamps. BTW, didn't Jimi die in a plane crash, or was that some other guitar player?


(that's two Timid)



sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 26, 2014 - 12:43am PT
Jimi choked to death on his own puke - I guess you haters have to choke on my puke, huh? Such a shame, you hate yourself for reading it but you just can't skim past my posts and press the ignore switch in what passes for brains in your rock-addled skulls. Whatever obsessiveness you accuse me of you display in your own reactions and subsequent denunciations. Back in Dixie, the country folks refer to the "pot calling the kettle black" - I doubt if any of you ever heard that, and doubt further if you get it. But keep it up - you're doing a great job deflecting criticism of Licky, and that's one of the primary purposes of sycophants, in the English definition of the term. If you don't like that, call yourself toadies, brownnosers, asskissers, buttlickers, whatever floats your boats. I think of you as Lickylickers. Here's this guy conning you all into believing his tripe online, and you fall all over yourselves listening to his music and dancing to the tune. Idiots. Stupid enough to believe Licky, and dumb enough to think Jimi died in a plane crash. You got plane on the brain, scroll back and drool on that pic of Amelia while you jack Licky off again.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Mar 26, 2014 - 02:01am PT
Praise Allah that u only ever post to this thread sidmo.
John M

climber
Mar 26, 2014 - 02:11am PT
Don't know why this song just fits.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Mar 26, 2014 - 02:17am PT
I say again -
Sidmo is just an account set up by Licky himself (good guy vs villian).
There never was a book. We've all been trolled.
John M

climber
Mar 26, 2014 - 02:22am PT
Biotch.. you have a strange imagination. hahahaha… love it.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Mar 26, 2014 - 09:52am PT
As I told you fellas before in previous posts:

". . . you hate yourself for reading it but you just can't skim past my posts and press the ignore switch . . ."

". . . You don't have to read it. I might have stopped long ago if not for the curious attacks on me by those who are not Licky. . . ."

". . . just ignore what bugs you - why is it that all you other morons have difficulties editing your reading content? if you don't like what you read then don't read it, seems simple enough to me . . ."

". . . you can skip reading any post you choose so if I bother you you're just bothering yourself . . ."

You must like it RyanDog or you wouldn't rattle my cage - or perhaps you would if you're as nutty as the other haters on here - BTW, welcome to "my thread" (mea culpa time - I'm not Chainsaw, or Meme, I'M LICKY!!!!!!)

you are right about one thing B.O.Tech, You've all been trolled - there never was gonna be a book, just a DEA file
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Mar 26, 2014 - 11:10am PT
Jimi choked to death on his own puke - I guess you haters have to choke on my puke, huh?

Should the haters OD on fuel-soakded weed first? Ya got any on ya?


EDIT:

Almost forgot the photo. Everybody knows what abridged means right?

This is a bridge to nowhere, kinda like ...

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 1, 2014 - 11:43am PT
I KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN TODAY!

Gotta order my copy rikky tik.


I GOT POST 2112!!!
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Apr 1, 2014 - 12:11pm PT
The book is finally done!

Lodestar Legacy by Rick Schloss is going to print even as we speak.

Ha!

Double Cross being bolted for safety is something I could envision happening in my lifetime...
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
Apr 1, 2014 - 12:37pm PT
George Bush was president when Licky started this thread.

The Supreme Court outlawed Medical marijuana the same year.

We see how that went.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
Apr 1, 2014 - 07:41pm PT

The book is already on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Lodestar-Legacy/dp/B002XNM7X0
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 1, 2014 - 10:26pm PT
Dayuum Lorenzo...busted
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Apr 1, 2014 - 10:58pm PT

The Lodestar Legacy Mass Market Paperback– January 1, 1976


Be the first to review this item

sidmo, step on up. It's gotta have some factual inadequacies. Sorry no photos, but the clue is the date.

Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 3, 2014 - 03:24am PT
The famous incident on Siula Grande, when he cut the rope on Joe Simpson in order to save his own life. Naw...You don't think that this is the same sidmo? Jeebus, I hope not.

Maybe he's not quite the guy he'd like us to think he is...ya think?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 3, 2014 - 02:02pm PT
I would have cut that rope with a Chainsaw, right Licky? I mean, isn't that who I am? Or am I Meme? Or am I really you? Or are you really Wbraun? Who are we, really? I don’t know who you are Licky, but I know you're as dumb as a bucket full of rocks - or rockclimbers, if you will. Why is it so difficult for you to believe me when I (honestly) say that I don't give a rat's ass what you or anyone else thinks about me - and that weakens you and empowers me. You can guess and accuse all you want, and you're just entertaining yourself.

So, lets parse your words. You say:

"Maybe he's not quite the guy he'd like us to think he is...ya think?"

Where do you get that assumption? Not that "I'm not the guy I'd like you to think I am" but the other one embedded there: the one that "I'd like you to think I'm any particular guy, or kind of guy."

I hate to break this to you, yet again Licky, et.al. I also hope it doesn’t shatter your obviously fragile ego, but

I DON’T CARE WHAT YOU THINK - REALLY!!!!!

If I did, why would I? Because of my deep respect for you? You're so phucking stupid I can't believe it.


no wonder you'll never publish
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Apr 3, 2014 - 02:06pm PT
Thanks for checking in
squishy

Mountain climber
Apr 3, 2014 - 03:10pm PT
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Apr 3, 2014 - 11:14pm PT
Slidmo is a Narc.

“I might have stopped long ago if not for the curious attacks on me by those who are not Licky. Why do you care?”

“As I told you fellas before in previous posts:”

". . . you hate yourself for reading it but you just can't skim past my posts and press the ignore switch . "

". . . You don't have to read it. I might have stopped long ago if not for the curious attacks on me by those who are not Licky. . . ."

". . . just ignore what bugs you - why is it that all you other morons have difficulties editing your reading content? if you don't like what you read then don't read it, seems simple enough to me . . ."

". . . you can skip reading any post you choose so if I bother you you're just bothering yourself . . ."

“Why is it so difficult for you to believe me when I (honestly) say that I don't give a rat's ass what you or anyone else thinks about me -and that weakens you and empowers me. You can guess and accuse all you want, and you're just entertaining yourself.”

“Where do you get that assumption? Not that "I'm not the guy I'd like you to think I am" but the other one embedded there: the one that "I'd like you to think I'm any particular guy, or kind of guy."

“I hate to break this to you, yet again Licky, et.al. I also hope it doesn’t shatter your obviously fragile ego, but”

“I DON’T CARE WHAT YOU THINK - REALLY!!!!!”

“If I did, why would I?”

Slidmo you are a Narc, have been and always will be but in a pathological form as in having a narcissistic personality disorder (NPD),

Some of the best clues come from your own words especially “I DON’T CARE WHAT YOU THINK - REALLY!!!!!” posted 60- 70 times or have said it?

Narcissism is a term that originated with Narcissus in Greek (1590s) mythology who fell in love with his own image reflected in a pool of water[in the case of you "Slidmo’s reflection was when he was cleaning and looking into too many toilets on MCA buses long ago. "lay gazing enraptured into the pool [toilet], hour after hour,"

Ever notice all the time posting with “does not care what we think of him? That’s the first clue:

80% of the traits/symptoms that fits his conditions:

An obvious self-focus in interpersonal exchanges.
Problems in sustaining satisfying relationships.
A lack of psychological awareness.
Difficulty with empathy [A lack of empathy involves a poor sense of communication that fails to understand the perspective of the audience.]
Problems distinguishing the self from others.
Hypersensitivity to any insults or imagined insults.
Vulnerability to shame rather than guilt.
Detesting those who do not admire them.
Pretending to be more important than they really are.
Bragging (subtly but persistently) and exaggerating their achievements.
Claiming to be an "expert" at many things.
Inability to view the world from the perspective of other people.
Denial of remorse and gratitude.

But which ones would slidmo see himself as: one or all?

Magical thinking: Narcissists see themselves as perfect, using distortion and illusion known as magical thinking. They also use projection to dump shame onto others.

Arrogance: A narcissist who is feeling deflated may reinflate by diminishing, debasing, or degrading somebody else or all.

Envy: A narcissist may secure a sense of superiority in the face of another person's ability by using contempt to minimize the other person or persons.

#2 clue……….

Entitlement: Narcissists hold unreasonable expectations of particularly favorable treatment and automatic compliance because they consider themselves special. Failure to comply is considered an attack on their superiority, and the perpetrator is considered an "awkward" or "difficult" person. Defiance of their will is a narcissistic injury that can trigger narcissistic rage. and that weakens you and empowers me like you say in your Narc own wording.

“Rage” How many times 100? But the rage is you: not the creator or people trying to communicate with you Slidmo.

Are you more of the closet narcissist that is more likely to be described as having a deflated, inadequate self-perception and greater awareness of emptiness within? The exhibitionist narcissist would be described as having an inflated, grandiose self-perception with little or no conscious awareness of the emptiness within. Such a person would assume that this condition was normal and that others were just like them.

Clue # 3…………… both

The closet narcissist seeks constant approval from others and appears similar to the borderline in the need to please others. The exhibitionist narcissist seeks perfect admiration all the time from others.

Maybe an unprincipled narcissist: including antisocial features. A charlatan—is a fraudulent, exploitative, deceptive and unscrupulous individual.

Could you be a compensatory narcissist: including negativistic (passive-aggressive), avoidant features.

Or more like this one:

The fanatic type: including paranoid features. These people are fighting delusions of insignificance and lost value and are trying to re-establish their self-esteem through grandiose fantasies and self-reinforcement. If unable to gain recognition or support from others, they take on the role of a heroic or worshipped person with a grandiose mission.

“Life is a stage, and when the curtain falls upon an act, it is finished and forgotten. The emptiness of such a life is beyond imagination”. No stage for you slid, no lights, not even an audience; just lay gazing enraptured into your toilet, hour after hour,".

Oh! Taking a guess you must be thinking “where is my source coming from”:


Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 4, 2014 - 01:01am PT
I don't see it as an insult, simply bringing the chicken home to roost
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Apr 4, 2014 - 10:54pm PT
Two more tunnels. No fatalities and interestingly, no drugs.
http://www.chron.com/news/crime/article/2-tunnels-found-under-California-Mexico-border-5376798.php

Are these tunnels just a diversion to keep eagle-eyed border watchers from seeing all the illegal contraband being flown in via drones? Another interesting phenomenon; nobody dies when a drone crashes, except in the unforunate instance when it lands on somebody.

It's got me wondering whether there are drone mini-trains that traverse (is this what you do in a tunnel) the netherworld below. Holy sheeit, is this a drone train? I know it's not the last train to Clarksville, that for sure.



Addendum:

I was with you (and still am) at Los Tinsha, but I couldn't follow after
nGhai?

so I'll just say:

if it takes a lot to laugh
and
a train to cry

What does a crashed Lodestar in the pass portend?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 5, 2014 - 09:34am PT
You guys are so stupid - the guy who don’t care what you did or who you are is the narc? Not the guy who wants to know all about you and what you did? Yeah that really makes sense . . . not

give it up you laptop shrinks - you'll never get why I do anything, especially not you licky - I post because it annoys me to see a user like licky get the free pass he does not deserve

stay in his camp though, he needs you guys
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2014 - 12:36am PT
sidmo...I have an idea for you. I've posted a sh#t load of facts, stories, and the like on this forum. Why don't you use it all to come up with your own publication? Hell, I'm actually giving you the green light to show us what you can do. Publish here or publish it as a money making story. You up to the challenge?

Now I'll understand if it takes you a little while to research all of the postings, but you have enough time don't you?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 10, 2014 - 12:00am PT
Do you really need another distraction lick? Just do your thing, and I'll do mine. You're wasting time, I'm killing time - there's a big difference. You recommend looking back in the postings, take your own advice. You'll see that I stated long ago that you need a deadline - all writers do. Don't take it as an insult, just accept the fact that you're not exceptional. Needing a deadline is normal - writing a book without an editor breathing down your neck is not. The internet has everyone with a story to tell believing he can publish without all those pesky deadlines and editors. That's what you believed ten years ago, but it didn't turn out like you'd planned, did it Licky?
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Apr 10, 2014 - 01:14am PT
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2014 - 02:05am PT
Very poor side step sidmo
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Apr 10, 2014 - 04:35pm PT
I'm just curious if I will receive any college credit for this online course in psychology?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 10, 2014 - 11:18pm PT
SIDESTEP? ARE YOU PHUCKIN KIDDING ME?
God licky, just when I think you might be getting it . . . sidestep? Really? WHY?

EARTH TO LICKY - YOU HAVE BEEN DELUDING YOURSELF, SUPERTOPO, ANYONE ELSE WHO'S BELIEVING YOUR HYPE - YOU ARE TEN YEARS BEHIND IN A PROJECT ABOUT A PLANE THAT WILL NEVER GET OFF THE GROUND . . . THE PROJECT, NOT THE PLANE, IT ALREADY CRASHED, YOU'RE NEXT - YOU'RE A FRAUD, OR AN INEPT LOSER, OR A NARC, OR ALL OF THE ABOVE, BUT YOU AINT NO DAMN WRITER AND NEVER WILL BE - SIDESTEPPING? SIDESTEPPING? YOU NEED TO WALK YOUR MANUSCRIPT IN A STRAIGHT LINE TO A PUBLISHER AND HIM GUFFAW - YOU'LL NEVER GET INKED WITHOUT A TATTOO, MORON
SIDESTEP, THATS A GOOD ONE - WHY WOULD I FEAR YOU LICKY?
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Apr 10, 2014 - 11:23pm PT
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 10, 2014 - 11:27pm PT
Is it a bad sign when they start shouting?
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Apr 10, 2014 - 11:33pm PT
I'm just curious if I will receive any college credit for this online course in psychology?

What college are you enrolled in?
What are Licky and sidmo's credentials?
Are Licky and sidmo actually the same person, as has been alleged?
Why is it taking so long to write a very short story?
Where are sidmo's timesheets?
Where are Licky's timesheets?
Where is the raw data of this enterprise in the event that Licky/sidmo
dies before the project is either:

a. completed
b. self-destructs







sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 11, 2014 - 09:47pm PT
i'm not shouting now, i only shout at licky, whoops, i mean myself and there is no book andre, only a thread and a promise
WBraun

climber
Apr 11, 2014 - 09:55pm PT
Little sidmo = Confirmed psychopathic narcissist nutcase
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 11, 2014 - 11:07pm PT
And what are you brauny? I'm not credentialed to psychoanalyze you, but of course, you are educated, trained, certified to do the same to me, right? Well you might be certified . . . a certified moron
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 13, 2014 - 02:39am PT
I feel your pain sidmo. Its ok...we know
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 13, 2014 - 10:45am PT
Well my pain is your pain I suppose, and since I feel no pain I'm glad you do instead. You don’t get one thing here lick, YOU are the goat in this drama, like it or not - not me. Try as you might to deflect criticism from you onto me (or chainsaw, et. al.) you, and only you have the onus of completing the book. With the glory goes the criticism. That's all on you, pal. And there's plenty of criticism to go around until, and possibly after you publish. Take it like a man and stop sniveling. You cry like a baby girl (apologies to all the fathers of daughters.)

Here's a link to an ad I saw - you look it over, I don't need to:


http://www.iuniverse.com/LP02F01C029.aspx?Cat=PPC&LS=SearchEngine&SRC=Google&KW=BookPublishingDN&GKW=WriteOwnBookImageAds&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=BookPublishingDN&utm_content=WriteOwnBookImageAds&gclid=COOigqDW3b0CFchQ7AodfDMAuw

HOW TO GET YOUR MANUSCRIPT PUBLISHED

As a writer, you have poured your heart into your manuscript. Now experience the joy of becoming a published author with the professionals at iUniverse.
"It’s nice to have somebody support you through the process, to guide you through and ensure the book is the best it can be." – iUniverse author, Julie Hockley
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Apr 13, 2014 - 05:28pm PT
“YOU are the goat in this drama, like it or not - not me”

Problem [many] that I have with you Slid is: Do you know anything about what, where, when, who, why, how about “that GOAT’? There is a link: watch it on your internet for one.

You get to cheat since all the information is in front of you. A second, the most a minute to search by using the web; no running around finding people, documents, no looking for shredded ones.

Question: After you see the film, want to play a game? Guarantee you will pee your panties.

Up to slid? Na! Just a foolish clown with no brains; a brain that was fried so long ago.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Apr 13, 2014 - 05:43pm PT
Whaal, everytime this thud pops up I take the bait and click on it expecting to find out that the book is finished and will hit Amazon anyday now.

Here's a photo of the 1977-1978 L.A. Lakers, none of whom were on the Lodestar. Can anyone ID Licky or sidmo, neither of whom were on the Lodestar either, in the group?


Oh Well,

Alpenglow seen on La Sal Mountains to the north from Canyonlands Needle Unit. (no Photoshop color mainipulatiom-- Fujichrome Velvia 50 film , the good stuff).

http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p780/tbw_coverart/nature/scrn_ss700_a2sHS_087UM.jpg
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 19, 2014 - 01:26am PT
And just who the phuck is this "we" you refer to licky? You and the cyber- pussies who carry your water on this thread? You and the deadman's wife? You and the DEA bigshots pulling your strings? You and your imaginary rabbit? Let me guess; you sit around and discuss the delusionality of sidmo - instead of working on the book - you know, the one about the plane you were supposed to be writing
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 19, 2014 - 04:13am PT
Choking on the goat huh sidmo? Living in Santa Barbara as a kid must have been pretty nice.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 20, 2014 - 09:11pm PT
Yeah licky it beat the hell out of
san jose before the computer biz cleaned up the
dump - went surfin every day - but aren’t you
wasting time again? You'll find any excuse
to procrastinate wont you?
If you have so much data and stories already, why don’t you
WRITE THE PHUCKIN BOOK ALREADY? Every minute you spend
reading this thread, attacking me, etc. is two minutes
away from your task, if it really is your task - can you
see why I think you're not really serious? And if you're
not really serious, about writing the book that is, it
begs the question: what are you really doing here?
And why? You have to focus before you can remain
focused, and that means working on the book, not
posting on your stupid thread
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Apr 20, 2014 - 09:20pm PT
Best troll ever. A guy spends close to 10 years trolling and the taco keeps buying it.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 21, 2014 - 10:55pm PT
What do you "get" Zbro? Licky's bar tab? Get this:
you'd rather post photos than write anything coherent,
I don't do images and send my messages via text on a stupid website thread.
Not much else here dude - get your lips off licky's butt and open your mind - it's a terrible thing to waste
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Apr 21, 2014 - 11:09pm PT
I don't do images and send my messages via text on a stupid website thread.

Just where do you send your messages, sid? Does anybody ever receive them, let a alone get them?

Invest in a mirror and "research" the only image that you really need to be concerned about.

Did I see your photo over there at the Bundy photo op in Nevada?


T H E L A S T C I R C L E

Copyright 1994 - All Rights Reserved

By Carol Marshall

sid please read and process it for us



mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 21, 2014 - 11:41pm PT
I really miss old modis. So did you. zBrown isdom.

As Bundy said, "I wish the world was a fly and I was a giant rolled up newspaper."

http://tvquotes.net/show.php?cn=1/character/Al-Bundy
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Apr 23, 2014 - 10:02pm PT
Keep plugging away Mr. Licky. Naysayers will always be naysayers.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 24, 2014 - 12:34am PT
Zbro's done gone loco now - the videos finally took
their toll I guess - you gotta spend a lot of time
watching stupid shyt to find all those wonderful
images and streaming crap he so generously shares
with us all - as if we had time to waste checking
out what interests him - down load some more gems Zbro,
keep entertaining yourself while you wait for licky's
book - hold your breath while you're at it, just don't
post any more videos while you're passing out, we've
seen enough and then some
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2014 - 11:42pm PT
I had this dream last night that sidmo was hovering around a fire named Jack. It seemed that Jack and a lady were pissing off sidmo and sidmo kept flapping closer and closer. Anyone knows what this means?
grover

climber
Northern Mexico
Apr 25, 2014 - 11:49pm PT
Means we all need to sit back and have a puff or three of that kind grass this whole threads about
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 27, 2014 - 10:19am PT
the dream means you need help licky - in all sincerity I hope you get it, good luck
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2014 - 07:13pm PT
Naw sidmo, I got plenty of help
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Apr 27, 2014 - 09:26pm PT
scud-mo (it's not taken if you want to update your resume and/or persona, sid)

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 28, 2014 - 12:14am PT
you're like the alcoholic who says he has no drinking problem - "I can quit anytime I want" - you have a different spin though: "I can write (the book) anytime I want."

and it's a free country, so you can
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Apr 28, 2014 - 06:00pm PT
So Slid Baby,

You still have the chance to confess your sins maybe THEY will look the other way.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Apr 28, 2014 - 07:10pm PT
hey sidmo
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Apr 28, 2014 - 08:25pm PT
Is there a cliff notes version of this thread, ignoring whatever petty bickering erupted at various points?

1) Is there a target date for a book publication?

2) If not, what are the obstacles or next steps?

3) I seem to recall this was all about a guy who was soliciting info and saying there are crazy stories to share, but then not wanting to disclose it for risk of messing up the big bang release of the book? Are there pressures to not publish for fear of outing people who profited from it? Is there a statute of limitations that protects everyone involved?

Any other key pieces I'm missing here?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 29, 2014 - 12:27am PT
This thread is a book about a book that is not finished or was never begun in the first place - the "author" was to be a first-timer working with someone close to one of the players in the drama, although after many years nothing is as it seemed to be or was supposed to be. Statutes of limitations probably would absolve all concerned of responsibility, but nothing is really clear. The author has chosen not to release any samples of the work in progress, if it is indeed in progress, despite many requests. For a few years it seemed as if a book might be forthcoming from the project - lately it seems more likely that the author is having more difficulties finishing his manuscript than he or we originally had thought was likely. Lately the project has inevitably digressed into accusations and cross-accusations about motives and intent. It seems as if nothing will come from this failed effort except this depressing thread, a sad monument to an illustrious event that happened long ago in an idyllic locale.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 29, 2014 - 12:35am PT
Nutter, the sub-plot is Sidmo's unrequited luv for Licky - a timeless topic if reduced to a rather hackneyed version here.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Apr 29, 2014 - 02:41am PT
Sidmo is literally unable to respond in less than 100 words to any stimulus
sempervirens

climber
Apr 29, 2014 - 10:37am PT
Book or no book, true stories or not, one thing is proven: sidmo is a dickhead.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 29, 2014 - 11:54pm PT
I can see sidmo in his living room putting that text to rap.

Tell me again sidmo...where is it written that I owe you, samples of the book? You have provided nothing toward the advancement of the book, information about the event, names of players that you know were there, nothing. You rag on me behind the cloak of the internet so you'll not have to be held accountable for your slander and libel. Ya know sidmo, I have two goals now, one is to get to the bottom of what caused the crash and to meet you. I'll get both of them shortly
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Apr 30, 2014 - 10:46am PT
YMMV

The ToothPicks (Los Palillos) had a house less than one mile from me. The trial lasted more than one year and verdicts were issued in 2014.

Laura McNeal produced her massive tome (61 pages) and it is available on Amazon (sid, you can get it for $2.99 to tide your reading interests over until Ric finishes up in 2020).

Rojas and Estrada are among 18 defendants — both U.S. and Mexican citizens — indicted in connection with Los Palillos since 2009. Prosecutors said the drug-trafficking crew was responsible for nine killings and kidnappings for ransom in San Diego County between 2004 and 2007
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Apr 30, 2014 - 12:29pm PT
So slid

I see that you must have had someone else write your last post for you. Someone else writing and editing was it your professor helping you?

By the way did you ever get the chance to look over that film? Did you look deeper and followed the trails behind the real story? The best part or worst considering how you look at it is how they have in the past; currently and in the future control your daily life. Not by reading your mind but by listening and looking.

You're guilty and it has noting to do with having or distributing any drugs. "I don't care what you think" Better rethink that.

zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Apr 30, 2014 - 01:16pm PT
a sad monument to an illustrious event that happened long ago in an idyllic locale.

Tell us you're just spoofing us sid, some of us are not as sharp as you.

Are you working on Lodestar 1977 Illustrated or is this just another exapmple of your inabiltiy to comprehend the English language?


zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Apr 30, 2014 - 01:17pm PT

Whoa. Can you tell me more about the Lodestar drug plane?
In the 70s, the rock climbing Dirtbags realized that, thanks to some new gear innovations, they could climb walls that had never been climbed before. The main Dirtbag ethic is time over money, so none of them wanted to waste their life working. Then some money fell out of the sky.

In the winter of 1977, a drug plane went down in a lake just outside of the Yosemite Valley. A Park Service Ranger mentioned it to one of the Dirtbags in Camp 4. It was still snowy in the high country, so recovering the plane was difficult for the Feds. They decided to hold off on an extensive recovery until springtime. The plane was sitting at the bottom of an iced-over lake, packed with pot.

The Dirtbags camped outside all year. I’m sure they were used to the snow.
Exactly. And they were all rugged outdoorspeople. So a group of Dirtbags hitchhiked into Fresno to rent SCUBA gear. They hiked up to the lake, smashed a hole in the ice, and brought up hundreds of pounds of marijuana.

The Dirtbags hauled duffle bags full of weed back to Camp 4 and dried it out around fires. The money they made by selling it bought them the best climbing and camping gear. The money changed the Dirtbags’ lifestyle a bit, but it allowed them to live in Yosemite almost indefinitely.

How much money did the Dirtbags end up with?
Nobody knew how much money anyone made on the Lodestar crash. And since I was born the year the score was recovered, I didn’t want to ask the people I climbed with. But I know a few world-famous climbers who supposedly lived for more than a decade off that money. Duffle bags full of good weed are worth big, big money.

Quote is from "Peter Hoffmeister [who] Lived with Bears in Yosemite and Survived to Write a Book About It"
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
Apr 30, 2014 - 01:50pm PT

Probably a more interesting story.

RICHARD HENRY "DICK" RANALDI

http://www.dmairfield.com/people/ranaldi_di/


Steve Hickman

climber
Norwood, CO
Apr 30, 2014 - 02:12pm PT
Merced Red. I haven't climbed for years and was never really good at (first accents were 58 / A1). I don't live in Norwood anymore because I got too old to fix fences. Now in Green Valley, AZ with lots of other retirees but we have fun and travel a lot. Any bids on an "- - -I got mine- - - " T-shirt?
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Apr 30, 2014 - 02:46pm PT
Z ... a much more interesting story indeed.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Apr 30, 2014 - 06:04pm PT
Let's see if I can respond to the flurry of haters in kind and in order.

Luv for licky? Really Reilly? Not exactly what I had in mind, despite your opinion - another Freudian slipup from another laptop psychiatrist

Why Brawnino, should I use brevity to communicate? I'm not a poet or songwriter, I was taught to write, and to write one must use words - if ya don't wanna read it move on to the next post . . .and read another attack on me instead of the poser Licky.

A dickhead, Sequoia Simpleton? Well I have one but you'll never see it - no, I'm what's more commonly referred to as an acehole and/or a jerk, as if I care what you morons think - Licky does though, suck up to him some more why don't you?

Lick if you see me rapping better lay off the acid, dude - yer hallucinating again. And lick, you'll never meet me sooner or later, unless you do a real stalker job - if I see a creep hiding behind binoculars I'll know it's you - and I thought I told you, you offer no, make that NO compelling reason to tell you anything about anything - in your perfect world you ask people for details about illegal activity and the information just comes pouring in - well good luck to you and all who trust you - years ago I began to think you have ulterior motives and nothing you've said since leads me to believe otherwise. Sorry but you are not convincing. You seem like a narc.

So I have a ghostwriter now eh, Shanghole? As if anyone would put up with me that long, I'm an acehole, remember? A ghostwriter is what Licky needs, I've never been at a loss for words.

What is it about the English lingo I don't get ZBRO? How to post stupid pictures like you? Yeah, I guess I missed that class in community college - too busy at university actually writing I suppose.

hope I didn't leave any of you bozos out - its all I can do to keep up with your moronic insults, but I try my best
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 5, 2014 - 01:58am PT
Every time you write sidmo, you show an other side of you. It is recorded. I'll have my coffee with you sooner or later.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 5, 2014 - 08:39pm PT
Licky, are you a caff-fiend? Either we belly up to a bar and do shots or it's no intro, bro. I want to meet you when your speech is properly slurred. An other side of me? Either your perception is schizophrenic or I'm multi-faceted. Or you're just the dumbass I have suspected you were for so many years.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
May 5, 2014 - 09:28pm PT

Sid and Rick's relationship has lasted longer than many marriages.

Haha

More amicable than some, though.

I think they like each other.

It has been like 11 years. I don't see anything on Amazon.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
May 5, 2014 - 09:40pm PT
Sidmo is literally unable to respond in less than 100 words to any stimulus

Let's see if I can respond to the flurry of haters in kind and in order.

Luv for licky? Really Reilly? Not exactly what I had in mind, despite your opinion - another Freudian slipup from another laptop psychiatrist

Why Brawnino, should I use brevity to communicate? I'm not a poet or songwriter, I was taught to write, and to write one must use words - if ya don't wanna read it move on to the next post . . .and read another attack on me instead of the poser Licky.

A dickhead, Sequoia Simpleton? Well I have one but you'll never see it - no, I'm what's more commonly referred to as an acehole and/or a jerk, as if I care what you morons think - Licky does though, suck up to him some more why don't you?

Lick if you see me rapping better lay off the acid, dude - yer hallucinating again. And lick, you'll never meet me sooner or later, unless you do a real stalker job - if I see a creep hiding behind binoculars I'll know it's you - and I thought I told you, you offer no, make that NO compelling reason to tell you anything about anything - in your perfect world you ask people for details about illegal activity and the information just comes pouring in - well good luck to you and all who trust you - years ago I began to think you have ulterior motives and nothing you've said since leads me to believe otherwise. Sorry but you are not convincing. You seem like a narc.

So I have a ghostwriter now eh, Shanghole? As if anyone would put up with me that long, I'm an acehole, remember? A ghostwriter is what Licky needs, I've never been at a loss for words.

What is it about the English lingo I don't get ZBRO? How to post stupid pictures like you? Yeah, I guess I missed that class in community college - too busy at university actually writing I suppose.

hope I didn't leave any of you bozos out - its all I can do to keep up with your moronic insults, but I try my best

367
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
May 5, 2014 - 10:09pm PT
Are you claiming to be a writer scudmo?

Please provide us with a list of your published work. If you have none, then please provide samples of your unpublished works, specifically those not addressing Ric or the aiplane crash in Yosemite.

Submitting applications to the Publisher's Clearing House contest is not really writing I'll observe in advance.




Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
May 5, 2014 - 10:29pm PT
I was taught to write

Hope you kept the receipt
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
May 5, 2014 - 10:43pm PT
hope I didn't leave any of you bozos out - its all I can do to keep up with your moronic insults, but I try my best

Sure was a lot of 'em, eh?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 5, 2014 - 11:50pm PT
Tough crowd, if deservedly so. BwaHaHaHaHa!
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 6, 2014 - 12:24am PT
I'm not a math major like you Braunino, but my Microsoft word count has it at 368 - you really are stupid, aren't you? I failed Algebra but even I can count - Arithmetic's really not that challenging, maybe your local high school could help you out with a little remedial learnin'.

PiSs: That was only 52, want me to keep going? Ok let's get the word count up. ZBRO, phuck off. I ain't linking you to shyt. And Braunino, you done picked up my tab for that schoolin' dumbass - oh, and thanx for the Pell grants, taxpayers.

99
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 6, 2014 - 01:34pm PT
Hey! Slido so much for the Santa Barbara school system in reading , writing and arithmetic’s so looks like you barely passed with a lot of “D’s’ and a few “C’s”.

Just wondering where were you on Feb.25 1970; everyone living in or even close knew where they were or doing at the time.


There was a kid that had a bottle of wine in his hand innocently looking at chaos then within seconds the police mistook that bottle to be a Molotov cocktail beating him into submission: was that you Sidmo, I can see where the residuals of that action made the way you are today.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
May 6, 2014 - 08:02pm PT
I'm not a math major like you Braunino, but my Microsoft word count has it at 368 - you really are stupid, aren't you? I failed Algebra but even I can count - Arithmetic's really not that challenging, maybe your local high school could help you out with a little remedial learnin'.

PiSs: That was only 52, want me to keep going? Ok let's get the word count up. ZBRO, phuck off. I ain't linking you to shyt. And Braunino, you done picked up my tab for that schoolin' dumbass - oh, and thanx for the Pell grants, taxpayers.

99

Ouch. That cuts deep




sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 6, 2014 - 09:43pm PT
Oh shyt, they're onto me! Should I confess or run? Or write? If a hundred words ain't enough for you I got more - ready to read 'em? If only licky had my affliction you'd have a book to read by now. If only El Braunino could read he'd figure out how boring all those stupid pics he posted are - and off-topic. How much text and photos have you dweebs wasted attacking me while giving licky the free pass he does not need? Why do you insist on making this thread about me when all I've tried to do is keep the heat on licky? To what end? Would you guys like it if you embarrassed me? Or shamed me? Or made me sad? Why? It's a fool's errand you pursue. I'm absolutely unashamed and unabashed. So hit me with your best shot morons, and meanwhile licky just strings you along . . . and along . . .and along, for a long time.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
May 6, 2014 - 10:49pm PT
Talk is cheap scudmo. So by the transitive property of language (look it up dumbass), so are words.

Therefore, just post the words right here on the forum. We don't need no stinkin' links. We can all then delight in a little evening indulgence in some really great literature.

A list of your writing awards would provide further evidence to support your claim. Again, losing Publisher's Clearinghouse entries will not work.

Equal time.

Ok Ric get off the stick, are you gonna finish the book or not? You don't have to pre-publish anything other than a schedule. You know E.G., "I'm planning on being done by 2020 in order to publish simultaneously with Herr Braun."






zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
May 6, 2014 - 10:55pm PT
^Hope we don't get kidnapped by Boko Haram.

Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
May 7, 2014 - 10:27pm PT
Oh shyt, they're onto me! Should I confess or run? Or write? If a hundred words ain't enough for you I got more - ready to read 'em? If only licky had my affliction you'd have a book to read by now. If only El Braunino could read he'd figure out how boring all those stupid pics he posted are - and off-topic. How much text and photos have you dweebs wasted attacking me while giving licky the free pass he does not need? Why do you insist on making this thread about me when all I've tried to do is keep the heat on licky? To what end? Would you guys like it if you embarrassed me? Or shamed me? Or made me sad? Why? It's a fool's errand you pursue. I'm absolutely unashamed and unabashed. So hit me with your best shot morons, and meanwhile licky just strings you along . . . and along . . .and along, for a long time.

160

ish
WBraun

climber
May 8, 2014 - 11:00am PT
"Too bad this thread has crashed and the wreckage isn't pretty to look at.."
.

That's right warbler.

What do we expect when a certified nutcase is piloting his keyboard plane into the ground.

When the Loadstar crashed there was something of value on it.

When the nutcase Sidmo crashed and stepped out of his virtual keyboard plane
nothing of value came out except the same screwball nutcase he was back then.

We laughed at him back then and we're still laughing at this stupid screwball nutcase now.

He's so deluded he still thinks the sh!t coming out of his stupid head
is important to be of any interest back then and what to speak of today.

The idiots stupid brain is toast.

3 2 1 any minute the nutcase will be back to keep proving all this ......
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 8, 2014 - 11:30am PT
What's the problem, bandwidth?
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
May 8, 2014 - 11:07pm PT
Are we to conclude then, that in addition to be an outstanding author of merit, you scudmo, are not Licky?

I for one, am going to boycott the book and this thread if Ric doesn't post his schedule in ten seconds.

10

9

8

7


I'm not gonna claim credit for this, I saw it in a Bob Dylan movie, Pat Oliver told me about.

.


sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 8, 2014 - 11:11pm PT




Who in the phuck is "we" braunino?
You and what army? IF there's actually a bunch, group, hell, a pair of old climbers sitting on a log somewhere talking about how stupid sidmo is than you are the losers. All I've done is stoke a dead fire when everybody seems to want to give Licky a free pass to gather data like the NSA and then produce absophuckinglutelynuthin, after ten years - go ahead on suckers and confess yo sins to the prophet licky for the datamine that he's sharing with who-the-phuck-knows. He started out all innocent-like" We are not looking to expose anyone" - sounds good, but easy to say.

So there is a "we" braunino - at least licky has a cohort - or he did. Haven't heard much about the widow for a few years, is she still on board the crazytrain?

In his second post, , he opened the door to me, you and all the others:
"Anyone is welcome to email me with anything they have." So then it's back to "me" not "we" - was the widow-woman ever really on board?

He follows that with "They don't have to include their names, but if so, we'll certainly give them credit." There's that "we" again. Wonder how she feels about being a citizen now of the Nation of Procratsa - wonder if women can vote there? What if he'd told her in 2004 than in a decade nothing will have come to print? He's not worthy of your continuing adoration fellas, or hers, think about it. Quit worrying about whether I'm right, wrong, or a writer and light a fire under licky's ass. Mine burned out, he needs some kindling, fresh air and a spark. If you fools keep kissing his ace he'll never finish his typing. Braunino, post a not-relevant video now to keep the farce farcical as ever.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
May 8, 2014 - 11:16pm PT
^Is that the sample we've all been waiting for (yes scumd-mo more than one person pays attention to your stupid ranting). It's pretty piss-poor dude. Do you have any money left to take another writing class.

Why don't you start a thread asking for support for a decrepid, helpless guy who is trying to get his sorry life, or what he believes passes for one, back on track. Correction. It can't be back on track because it never was. Let's just say "on track".



6

5
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 8, 2014 - 11:35pm PT
“I've never been at a loss for words.” Make that I've never lost any words. Should I confess or run?

They still will find you. Try delete maybe that might work.





Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
May 9, 2014 - 12:10am PT
Who in the phuck is "we" braunino?
You and what army? IF there's actually a bunch, group, hell, a pair of old climbers sitting on a log somewhere talking about how stupid sidmo is than you are the losers. All I've done is stoke a dead fire when everybody seems to want to give Licky a free pass to gather data like the NSA and then produce absophuckinglutelynuthin, after ten years - go ahead on suckers and confess yo sins to the prophet licky for the datamine that he's sharing with who-the-phuck-knows. He started out all innocent-like" We are not looking to expose anyone" - sounds good, but easy to say.

So there is a "we" braunino - at least licky has a cohort - or he did. Haven't heard much about the widow for a few years, is she still on board the crazytrain?

In his second post, , he opened the door to me, you and all the others:
"Anyone is welcome to email me with anything they have." So then it's back to "me" not "we" - was the widow-woman ever really on board?

He follows that with "They don't have to include their names, but if so, we'll certainly give them credit." There's that "we" again. Wonder how she feels about being a citizen now of the Nation of Procratsa - wonder if women can vote there? What if he'd told her in 2004 than in a decade nothing will have come to print? He's not worthy of your continuing adoration fellas, or hers, think about it. Quit worrying about whether I'm right, wrong, or a writer and light a fire under licky's ass. Mine burned out, he needs some kindling, fresh air and a spark. If you fools keep kissing his ace he'll never finish his typing. Braunino, post a not-relevant video now to keep the farce farcical as ever.

313

Also LOL for a number of reasons
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 9, 2014 - 12:17am PT
everybody seems to want to give Licky a free pass to gather data like the NSA and then produce absophuckinglutelynuthin, after ten years

Well, it took the Bible 300 years to get into print so I'm giving Licky a few more years.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 9, 2014 - 09:12am PT
twothousandtwohundredtwo


Oh really, O'Reilly? Aren't you magnanimous? The bible wasn't written by just one dweeb, lots of voices contributed to that tome. Licky wants to be the gatekeeper of the secrets - no one from the old days was the sole self-appointed chronicler of all things Jesus. This project seems more Shakespearian than biblical - many stories involving egos run amok, multiple authors (if you believe the Shakespeare conspiracy theorists - of course this is true of the bible as well) and tragedy, comedy and history all jumbled up together. If icky was ever serious, and that's certainly open to debate, then he lost his focus. I would think that at least some of us could agree on that even as we agree to disagree on everything else. Is there anyone on the thread who will raise his hand and state that licky is progressing at a reasonable rate? You won't be much of an editor if you do. Icky needs to finish up, plain and simple. Attack me again folks, you love distractions, after all. All the while he gets his free pass, which he neither earned nor deserves.

onehundredeightynine
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
May 9, 2014 - 09:14am PT
Sidmo any chance you are related to the Chuff?
Are you the Chuff?
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
May 9, 2014 - 10:17am PT
4
3
2
1

Wal-Mart said it would double the number of on-site solar energy projects at its U.S. stores, Sam's Clubs and distribution centers by 2020

Adios Ric & scudmo.

This guy can at least write something someone may listen to or read

"Too much of nothing
Can make a man abuse a king
He can walk the streets and boast like most
But he wouldn’t know a thing
Now, it’s all been done before
It’s all been written in the book
But when there’s too much of nothing
Nobody should look"

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 9, 2014 - 10:26pm PT
Bye ZBRO, its been nice not knowing you - Tim-id, anybody who's hip to Sun Ra is ok with me, but I told ya before, Jackass made the pass but didn’t score the touchdown - but he had great taste in jazz - did you meet his buddy chip who played bass with sun ra at a gig once? Good guy, but jackass made a play for his wife - he'd clam up if a girl was single, and available - but if she was taken, he'd put the moves on her
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2014 - 11:18pm PT
This is get'n good
johntp

Trad climber
socal
May 9, 2014 - 11:25pm PT
This is get'n good

No, it is a pointless troll and just gets more boring.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 10, 2014 - 12:34am PT
I hate to sound like sidmo, but why do you return to the train wreak?
grover

climber
Northern Mexico
May 10, 2014 - 01:13am PT
Almost 9 years to the day since this grand idea started. How can we order said book?

Credit card waiting.



bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
May 10, 2014 - 01:19am PT
Just checking in.

Still a goatf*#k.

Carry on.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 10, 2014 - 01:55am PT
Am currently working on two issues. One is where did the money come from to buy the plane? Two, why did the plane crash?

I have leads on both. No sidmo, I'm not going to tell you what I've found because I don't trust you.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 10, 2014 - 01:58am PT
I already told you, loss of oil pressure in one of the prop governors so they couldn't feather it =
plane crash + dirtbags get rich.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 10, 2014 - 03:44am PT
Yeah, but what or who caused the loss of pressure? That is the question. Was it just a mechanic that was loosy goosey with the wrench, or was there someone else that had an agenda to down the plane? THAT is where my shift is taking me. So far, I am getting very close. If it appears that it was someone or some organization, then the there is no satutue of limitations on capitol murder. If I can prove what I am working on, the Feds will reopen the case.

This is why sidmo figures into the little pieces. There is so much more to this story than the climbers of C4 made their way up to the lake to rip off a couple of thousand pounds of dope.

I have been looking into this event for all these years to get to the bottom of it. If sidmo WANTS the book to be written now, then hell with him. Just like the two guys that wrote that "they strapped jet engines to the plane"...they wrote junk about the event. It doesn't matter how exciting the post was, it wasn't what happened......Sheesh!

Come on sidmo...lay some more eggs
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 10, 2014 - 12:49pm PT
Funny that when Sidmo posts “I don’t care what you guys think” every time [100+] he has also posted in the past concerning “statute of limitations” a few dozen times as well. Here is his lasted one posted on April 28 2014 9:27:

“Statutes of limitations probably would absolve all concerned of responsibility, but nothing is really clear. The author has chosen not to release any samples”

We found out already he does not write or is not an author of books or articles. He has commented a few times discussing piloting airplanes since he says he is a pilot which I doubt [too stupid].

Then Rick posts

”If I can prove what I am working on, the Feds will reopen the case”. And “This is why sidmo figures into the little pieces”


*make sure Slid you dress right and carry a bible: might help the jury in giving you and your other buddies that you said you can't find to a lesser sentence.

Looks to me Slid you should have never posted one word from the beginning too late now.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
May 10, 2014 - 02:14pm PT
Does anyone actually read Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzidmo or Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzicky's booooooooring posts?! I can usually only get 3 or 4 words into their first sentence before my eyes glaze over & I wake up in a panic to wipe the drool off my keyboard.

If you skip their posts this is one of the funniest threads of all time with some great stories.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
May 10, 2014 - 04:29pm PT
Don't let the publish or perish folks get you down Licky.

Easy to demand the finished product when you've never done research or writing. Especially if you investigating criminal activity, you want to be absolutely accurate and above reproach.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 11, 2014 - 12:52am PT
OK, Licky - you win - I give up, take all the time you need

You see this as a murder investigation now, who am I to criticize you when you are in pursuit of such a noble goal? I wouldn't stop Kojak from finding the killer, or Columbo, or Sherlock Holmes for that matter. It just wouldn't be right. All this time I though you wanted to really tell us a story, but it seems that this was a revenge plot cooked up by you and your high school pal, and it's not about the book really at all. Sorry it took me so long to "get it" but I'm sure the rest of the chorus here were all in on the true intent. I'm just so stupid, as so many of you have told me so many times. Thanks for your heartfelt insults, I mean insights. Just in case you get suspicious - I never worked fueling airplanes, just busses. So it wasn't me that wrecked the plane, ok? If you ever find the culprit I applaud your efforts. It's intrepid crimefighters like you that make America great. Keep up the good work, and again, take your time.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 12, 2014 - 10:26pm PT
sidmo wants to see flamboyant wordsmith that conjures up images of Hemingway, London, or Long. He is not concerned with accuracy or facts, only to see if I have the ability to write. As I've said many times, I have a full time job and I am not a writer. However, what I am very good at is research, interviews, and dicing out what the FOIA requests provide. So I'll continue my research. Those of you that have met me know why and what I'm doing. Many of you have received my private emails telling you how far I have come and what I've discovered.

sidmo has not had the privilege of reading the behind the lines information, and he never will. Again, I don't trust someone that can't identify himself nor support his claims to have been a writer. Besides, I'm actually saving him. You see, if I thought he was either stealing my data (of course all I post is what is public knowledge) or defaming me on ST, I'd simply hire an attorney, file a suit, subpoena ST for his name and away we'd go. There is plenty of precedence to support that action. That's still a possibility, but I'll wait until I have presented to the Feds what I have uncovered.

sidmo...don't go leave the State as they say.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 12, 2014 - 11:20pm PT
Llicky I gave in to you and you come back with the biggest attack on me to date - don't get your shorts all bunched up on this, dude - i'm not guilty of nuthin' as you'll most embarrassingly see if you get all focused on playing cop - you'll alienate your "friends in the law enforcement community" if you start making baseless charges that are not only easily refuted but based on conjecture and motivated by personal animus - lighten up man, I don't hate you - don't waste your time and energy hating me, unless you want to waste your time and energy - it's counterproductive to your goal - now let's stipulate that you are indeed an excellent researcher, I'll take your word on it - I have no reason to not believe that - in fact my criticism of you is that you're in over your head on this book project, and that wouldn't be the case if you didn't have a shytload if data compiled - it's the reason for the difficulty but a good thing, because obviously without it you wouldn't be making progress - and ok, you have a day job that keeps you busy, most of us understand what that's like - stop worrying that I am angling to steal your data or thunder, please take my word that I have zero interest in doing so, and even less time to care to - really, man - I don't want your work, worry about something that actually might happen - I'm just another dweeb in an English department who can string words together but not much else - so what? but you have a book going that might be something really great someday, and I hope it is - I'm one of those geeks who often read a book in a day, but I'd like to pore over yours for a week or so . . . but only AFTER you publish - I wouldn't break in front of you in a line at the village store, and I wouldn't break in your car and steal your 8 track, and I wouldn't steal your data, even if I did want it for my own project - if you think so you're wrong, and if you continue to think so you're paranoid - I proposed a truce before, I'm doing it again now - not because I'm afraid of you , just because this diversion and digression is stupid for both of us - I don't care what the ZBros and Brawnys on the thread think or post, they'll likely see this and attack me because they'll think I'm vulnerable for some reason - they don't matter, and I bet you agree - so, you have a lot of data compiled but you're missing some key components to complete, ok I get that - and you're busy, I believe that too - it's cool, that's a good thing - so go ahead on and take your time, but get it right man - we all want to read this book, and we want it right as much as you . . . well, maybe not quite as much, but who wants to read a lousy book? not me, not Z not chainsaw, not brawny, and not you - I can't imagine proofreading a piece of crap that I wrote and I know you don't want to either - so turn me in if you want, I won't leave the county if you say so - my public defender will get me off because I'm not guilty - I just hate to see you waste time on that crap, write instead - I'll give you one small tip that I tell all writers, something I learned early on that has been invaluable over the years: it sounds crazy but this works - read your composition backwards - not backwards word for word, but sentence by sentence. it's hard to get used to doing, but you'll get the hang of it soon enough - when you proofread prose in the order in which it is to be read by the reader you'll get caught up in the story, even if it's your story - this backwards method allows a close parsing of your text without the complications of story clarity

now laugh hearty all you morons who just love to attack me - you won't get all that but I have a hunch that Mr. Schloss is smarter than all of you put together
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
May 12, 2014 - 11:42pm PT
One word Sidmo, "periods"

learn how to use them. Break it up into coherent thoughts and people might actually read what you write.
Synchronicity

Trad climber
British Columbia, Canada
May 13, 2014 - 12:00am PT
Textwall?


Scroll....




Scroll....





Scroll....




Edit: BTW I really just wanted to read about how a bunch off dirtbags hit the mother lode, I'd read the book still but with arguably less interest. Maybe I'm biased towards climbing content... Meh
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
May 13, 2014 - 12:23am PT
Viva La Huelga!

Ric

Since you sort of addressed the scheduling issue I'll drop 1/2 the boycott.

Why don't you get some help? Also, if you're on a time budget, unless you really enjoy wasting time on this thread, stop wasting time here with that other guy.

It seems very strange to me that after nine years you are addressing the issue of why the plane crashed. Isn't that something that would have "popped" very early in the process?






grover

climber
Northern Mexico
May 13, 2014 - 10:56pm PT
Every time this thread pops up I feel like this guy......

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2014 - 04:40am PT
The left wing was found a quarter of a mile from one of the two verticle stabbalizers. When the Rangers flew up to the described location provided by Ron Lykins for the wing, they saw from the air a straight line of tree tops that were sheered off, almost acting like an arrow toward the lake. The verticle stabbilazer was found a quarter of a mile from the lake where the plane rested in sixty feet of water in Lower Merced Pass Lake, upside down in the deepest end.

Why would the plane come in low? It was clearing the Sierras running toward a location in northern Nevada. Remember, the Nevada Air National Guard was located at the Reno airport. This was 1976. The US had pulled out of Viet Nam, but the cold war was still on. Here is a huge plane traveling over 350 miles per hour looking just like a Russian Bear bomber. Glisky and Nelson want to fly below the radar sweep of the Sierra.

Something happens to the left engine. The plane dips low and the left wing catches some trees...............

Ok...I have two issues. One is why did the left engine have problems? It is well documented. And two, who had access to the engine(s) before the run?

I won't write this until I have some cold hard answers, and that's what I'm working on.

Oh yeah, we've linked Billy Carter to the purchase of the plane, but I'm sure that is just little stuff...
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
May 18, 2014 - 12:21pm PT


One word Sidmo, "periods"

learn how to use them. Break it up into coherent thoughts and people might actually read what you write.

Lol

The English department dweeb feels it is ok to use Hyphens instead.

The writing is interesting. I've been musing on how one "pores" over a book.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
May 18, 2014 - 12:22pm PT
Oh yeah, we've linked Billy Carter to the purchase of the plane, but I'm sure that is just little stuff...

I'll sell ya a full can of Billy Beer....
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 19, 2014 - 04:05pm PT
I love this thread for its purgatory qualities.

Will Sidmo explode?

Will Licky go round and round for enough years for us all to be dead?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
May 19, 2014 - 05:02pm PT

Lowrent-so-and-so - I use hyphens when I type on the little netbook, easier than punctuating properly, which, the last time I checked, was not a requisite for internet threads. If it makes you feel any better, I submit all drafts with edited punctuation, spelling, etc. I'm not submitting to you so you have no standing to correct my "writing" ("posting" is not writing.) As for defining words - do your own research next time, but here's something from the Merriam Webster Online Dictionary. They actually know a little bit about proper English there.
__

Top 10 Commonly Confused Words, Vol. 1
#7: Pore/Pour
Question:
When you're attentively studying, are you poring over or pouring over the materials?
Answer:
poring
How to Remember It:
One reason this word trips us up is that both pour and pore are often followed by over.
But in this case it probably helps to think literally. When we're intently studying something, nothing is actually pouring (i.e., flowing, leaking) onto the object of study; in fact, if something did pour onto what you're poring over, your task would be far more difficult. The less familiar verb pore is correct.

Read more at http://www.merriam-webster.com/top-ten-lists/top-10-commonly-confused-words-vol-1/pore-pour.html#spAw9iFc519ipLMY.99
_

Now, could you other trolls let it go against me? Help Licky or just read the thread for infotainment, but stop squabbling with me over whether or not I am literate. This is Licky's thread, and he has a tough row to hoe (and Loser-renzo, that is indeed the proper phrase. It has to do with farming and . . . oh why do I bother?)

If I knew anything about the mechanics of the plane I'd offer it to Licky, but I don't. He's told us that he's ascertaining why the crash happened in the first place, and that is still a mystery. If we don't know, and its safe to assume that the trolls on here don’t, we should let him do his work without interrupting with juvenile aggression. If that sounds uncharacteristic of me, call it a change of heart. We have alternately attacked Licky and praised him, maybe we should just leave him alone and let him write. It can't be easy or it would have been done already - if not by him by someone else. The story may belong to us all, but the book belongs to Licky, at least until he's able to sell us a copy. If you attack me or anyone else you detract from the effort - let him finish . . . please.


zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
May 19, 2014 - 06:03pm PT
Thanks for the update Ric.


EDIT:

I cannot at this time reveal my source(s).

Cause of Crash:
Unknown. Legend has it, the copilot was in on some conspiracy and shot the pilot in order to hijack the cargo. The struggle in the cockpit left the controls damaged and the plane unflyable. But like I said...that's the local legend.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Lest anyone forget, this whole saga on ST, started a (slight) bit before Ric, so add about 60 more entries in thread count (good way to buy sheets I've heard).

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/68674/Airplane-part-one

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Ric - 1/13/2007

Just when I thought I knew everything there was about this event someone comes forward and provides enough information for me to create another chapter.

I have now started to interview those involved in the drug dealing side of this story. The number 1 guy was found shot to death in his car a few months ago, but the number 2 guy has come forward to tell me about the world as he saw it 30 years ago. Pretty amazing stuff....stay tuned.

or Tune In, Turn On, Don't Drop Out


Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
May 19, 2014 - 06:46pm PT
Now, could you other trolls let it go against me? Help Licky or just read the thread for infotainment, but stop squabbling with me over whether or not I am literate.

Now THAT'S funny
Meme Guy

Boulder climber
NC
May 22, 2014 - 05:41pm PT
Ricks just making sh#t up now, pulling anything out of the air.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 22, 2014 - 08:39pm PT
zBrown, yer legend was likely incubated by the plane's cargo. I can't
imagine any struggle damaging the controls enough to make it uncontrollable.
I could easily see a struggle resulting in it going out of control. Hand
flying it at night at low altitude would leave little margin of error. But
hard to see how that scenario could be proven. But I trust Licky will
reveal all, in due time.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
May 22, 2014 - 08:53pm PT
^Well you took all the suspense out of it Reilly. I was going to gradually build up to revealing you as the source of this story. This report was made on that plane crash database you've been compiling all these years under the "Waymarking" pseudonym.

http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM8AT_Lodestar_Lightning

Shall we let Ric in on the exact coordinates? Why not.

N 37° 37.557 W 119° 26.999

11S E 283793 N 4167137

For those reilly ... er ... really intriqued you may:

Download this waymark:
.GPX File
.LOC File
.KML File (Google Earth)

In any event, now that the possibility of gunplay has been brought to the fore, isn't it about time that someone asked the question:

Is it possible that some of these drugs smugglers and/or poachers or their heirs, assigns and successors may have had a black hand in the slaying of Tupac?

Take a lode off Fanny, take a lode for free.

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
May 22, 2014 - 11:13pm PT
Is it possible that some of these drugs smugglers and/or poachers or their heirs, assigns and successors may have had a black hand in the slaying of Tupac?

Not likely.

Tupac was beheaded by the Spanish conquerors of Peru in 1572.

Phillip the second ( king of Spain and Holy Roman Emperor) was pissed that a mere viceroy would murder a fellow monarch without his consent.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2014 - 02:30am PT
<---just got off the phone with Pam, the pilots wife. We are both cracking up with the speculation. Great stuff if you want to write for a Bollywood movie
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 23, 2014 - 10:59am PT
The pilot's wife? I thought there two? Which one was Pilot In Command?
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
May 23, 2014 - 11:06am PT
OK maybe not Tupac, but I have not seen Joe Six-Pack in quite a while either. Come to think of it where is PacMan?


EDIT:

poseur (probably from Ouray)




Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 23, 2014 - 11:10am PT
zBrown, Tupac's problem, and also perhaps the dopers', was that he didn't understand the
niceties of the accelerated stall.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - May 24, 2014 - 12:59am PT
Reilly, there is always only one pilot. The other is the co-pilot. The pilot was married, the co-pilot was not. The pilot was Jon Glisky, his co-pilot was Scott Nelson
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 24, 2014 - 02:22am PT
Licky, when you get your ATP then we can talk flying as relative equals, mkay?
Jeezuz, you have no clue! 'Co-pilot' is a word only used by hack journalists and Hollywood.
Now if you use captain and first officer then you will have some cred.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
May 24, 2014 - 09:56am PT
As they used to say in The Jug Band

"let it hapm, capm"

Things are not always what they seem. Take for instance black holes. Doughnut shaped, right?

In the 1970s, astronomers developed a unified theory that could explain active supermassive black hole observations. The theory arose from the fact that some active black hole emissions could be easily seen by observatories while others seemed obscured by dust. To explain this, astronomers came up with the idea that supermassive black holes must be surrounded by a torus, or ring, of dusty material...

As expected, after surveying 170,000 galaxies containing supermassive black holes at their cores, the WISE observations showed some black holes that could be seen, whereas others appeared obscured (in line with the torus model), but it also revealed a peculiar pattern. When looking at black holes inside massive galaxies that are clumped together as a part of galactic clusters, more supermassive black holes seemed to be obscured.




Read on, my friends.

http://news.discovery.com/space/galaxies/supermassive-black-holes-are-not-doughnuts-140523.htm


Meme Guy

Boulder climber
NC
Jul 7, 2014 - 07:56am PT
Did you write your diary yet licky?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2014 - 08:46pm PT
Meme....you have us all fooled. No one knows who you are. Keep up the grand posts
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Jul 25, 2014 - 12:18am PT
... there is always only one pilot. The other is the co-pilot.
Is that just calling "shotgun" to sit up front, or was there actually controls on that side?
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Aug 3, 2014 - 06:48pm PT
Just Like Tom Thumb, checking to see if this thread survived the great purge of 2014.

Deadicated to everyone with a heart or ears and Sonny Barger.

Amazing someone could make a living offa something for more than 8 years.

Where's the pickle, Lickle?

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Albion

Trad climber
Bristol, UK
Aug 20, 2014 - 03:08pm PT
Nice old skool Duke.
Airplane proceeds?
Meme Guy

Boulder climber
NC
Aug 25, 2014 - 05:59pm PT
This is f*#king stupid
rand0M aXiS

Trad climber
Beserkeley now living in Daygo
Aug 25, 2014 - 06:18pm PT
blah blah blah
yada yada yada
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Aug 25, 2014 - 06:53pm PT
..................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...............??????????????
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Aug 25, 2014 - 08:57pm PT
I remember back in 1965 when I got my Ducati how vibrant and exciting this thread was.

Meme Guy

Boulder climber
NC
Sep 15, 2014 - 06:06pm PT
Come on and upload it PDF style
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Oct 2, 2014 - 06:48pm PT
..................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...............??????????????
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Oct 2, 2014 - 07:24pm PT
There is no spoon.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Oct 2, 2014 - 07:53pm PT
Spoonful?
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Oct 2, 2014 - 09:04pm PT
Who switched the trail signs at the Illilouette Creek junction? Classic!
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2014 - 09:28pm PT
Nothin' new here, but I was reminiscing on the backpack trip I did with my sister and her BF in late 70s - a circuit from mono meadows trailhead up Illiluouette drainage to Red Peak pass and return to the valley via upper Merced canyon. First morning near lower Ottoway lake I wandered away from camp, and saw a piece of an airplane wing. Descending the Merced drainage was so rad. More people should go up there.
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Oct 2, 2014 - 09:51pm PT
That Red Peak Pass loop is unbeatable for beauty and adventure for sure. One can make many trail-less variations with zero danger of getting seriously "lost," as I did at least twice, and wander untouched and unnamed valleys and lakes east of the Clark Range to utter amazement and solitude. The trail, too, is amazing, and very wild. Saw no plane wings, though.
AE

climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 7, 2014 - 01:30pm PT



chirp


chirp


There are now kids younger than this blog thread, pulling 5.13, who were conceived by parents who were smart enough to make love instead of reading this endless ...
whatever it is...

for Lorenzo:
pore 1 (pôr, pr)
intr.v. pored, por·ing, pores
1. To read or study carefully and attentively: pored over the classified ads in search of a new job.
2. To gaze intently; stare.
3. To meditate deeply; ponder: pored on the matter.


For everyone else who gives a crap, The new film "Valley Uprising" says all that will ever need to be said about this now amusing and colorful footnote to Yosemite lore, wherein several personalities feel free to incriminate themselves without fear, despite paranoid worries spelled out here over the years. This film was like 7 years in the making, or only two years LESS than the apocryphal tome promised here for so long.

So, so long.
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Oct 7, 2014 - 06:03pm PT
The book is always better than the movie.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Oct 7, 2014 - 06:21pm PT
To wit:

Mutiny on the Bounty. (times at least two - though Charles Laughton was spectacular)

[Click to View YouTube Video]


Sorry Ric, but as they point out in the trailer, Mutiny on the Bounty was made in two years.

Left to the reader, how long to write the book? The trilogy?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Oct 7, 2014 - 07:29pm PT
"The book is always better than the movie."

Yeah, but the book usually comes before the movie.

..................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...............??????????????

and those lakes in the clark range are easy fishin' - lotsa trout
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Oct 13, 2014 - 05:24pm PT
If licky takes any longer we'll start dying off, and if he waits long enough to publish there will be none of us left to correct his bullshyt account of the plane. So there's a method to his madness, but I doubt he's really figured it all out. He's just slow 'cause he's in over his head, and drowning in difficulties. Writing is hard; editing (your own work) is harder still, and he's a rookie - well a publishing rookie at least. If he's really been writing this thing 8 years then he's experienced, albeit not professionally. Licky's extremely competent at not getting the job done.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Oct 13, 2014 - 06:22pm PT
Sidmo
Are sure that you did not just hit the nail on the head
Wait out a few more years and the market for the story will have changed
Jimmy Buffett found this out the hard way too of coures that did not change his
Trajectory just published after the players were not able to voice any alternate versions
(David Crosby was in jail and sick so had enough on his plate and Lowell George was gone)
I am trying to find the name of the book or the story from the book,
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Oct 22, 2014 - 01:05pm PT
The lack of any sense of urgency to publish on Licky's part as always made me wonder about his motives, or lack thereof. If he wanted to write the book it would've been written by now. So what is it he's up to? Posing as a writer? No glory there. Playing detective? No charges would still be viable today, and no rewards are forthcoming. Justice for his buddy? She is nowhere to be seen on this thread and may or may not exist except in Licky's mind. Which leads to the most disturbing possibility: is Licky just deranged? Who knows, and better yet, who cares? As for a book about the plane, I'm not writing one, contrary to one of Licky's paranoid delusions, so if you want to read it, write it yourself.
hossjulia

Trad climber
Carson City, NV
Oct 22, 2014 - 01:17pm PT
So, I just finished a book that uses this story! Fictionalized, but the incident is there. Too funny. And it made me think, how many climbers at the time were worried about cartel repercussions? Like, who owned all that weed and did they want it back?

High Country, by Nevada Barr

There is a great story here, but the direction the OP Licky said he wanted to take it? Not the best story by a long shot.
Meme Guy

Boulder climber
NC
Oct 24, 2014 - 05:36am PT
The ship they used for the mutant on the bounty sank right off the coast of my beautiful state. The captain went down with the ship after sailing into a hurricane, lost forever to the sea similar to this loads tar lightning story being lost forever.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Oct 24, 2014 - 08:12pm PT
Just when folks were beginning to wonder whether all the main characters had died, up like the baubles on satan's jeweled crown a few pop. The burning issue to my way of thinking is whether or knot there was any weed on the Bounty lookalike. Did anybody profit from it? And (you guessed it, right?) when is the book due?

Shades of David Foster Wallace!
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2014 - 04:56pm PT
I didn't see sidmo in Modesto Thursday night. I would have thought since he claimed to have been there back then that this would have been an event he'd not have missed
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Oct 25, 2014 - 06:14pm PT
The lack of any sense of urgency to publish on Licky's part as always made me wonder about his motives, or lack thereof. If he wanted to write the book it would've been written by now. So what is it he's up to? Posing as a writer? No glory there. Playing detective? No charges would still be viable today, and no rewards are forthcoming. Justice for his buddy? She is nowhere to be seen on this thread and may or may not exist except in Licky's mind. Which leads to the most disturbing possibility: is Licky just deranged? Who knows, and better yet, who cares? As for a book about the plane, I'm not writing one, contrary to one of Licky's paranoid delusions, so if you want to read it, write it yourself.

This keeps you up nights doesn't it
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2014 - 07:45pm PT
Oh yeah, sidmo makes me eat my liver. NOT
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Oct 25, 2014 - 10:44pm PT
I do not doubt Licky's motives or sincerity. But it certainly appears that he is finding it easier to spend time investigating and researching than writing. There reaches a certain point when a writer has to decide that he's gathered enough material to write, and sit down and focus on writing. There are lots of wannabes who are not able to do this. They procrastinate and delude themselves that they will "just need to do a little bit more research." Like it's essential to know the brand of sneakers the mechanic wore when he last serviced the plan.

Over FIVE YEARS AGO, Ghost wrote:

Aug 22, 2009 - 03:39am PT


There will always be facts missing and incorrect. You can work on this thing for another 20 years and you still won't have "all the facts." You will never have "all the facts."

At some point you have to decide whether you are enjoying a lifetime hobby, or writing a book.


Licky, you didn't respond well to that. Mighty Hiker retorted:

Sep 7, 2009 - 03:00am PT

It's possible that you know things about writing and editing publications of a historical nature, and indeed writing and editing generally, that ghost doesn't. But it ain't at all likely. Trust me.


Ghost is a talented and accomplished writer who has successfully written and published many books. You should consider hiring him to help you write this one.

Or at least stop lying to us and to yourself that you are "writing" a book. You're not. You're doing research and hoping that you will write a book at some vague, distant time in the future. It's not the same thing at all.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Oct 26, 2014 - 12:02pm PT
^Amen. I've heard of the dude many times. Ghost Writer. Pale fellow, well met.

At the present rate of progress on the book, one has to wonder whether Ric may be in league with Th Holy Ghost Writer. (it is Sunday today isn't it?)


Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Oct 26, 2014 - 06:00pm PT
Oh yeah, sidmo makes me eat my liver. NOT

i was talking to sidmo
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 26, 2014 - 06:42pm PT
Books, climbs and other works of creativity are finished when the time is right. I can understand anxiousness to see what the finished product is, but I don't get how butthurt so many of you are that this project is taking longer than you want it to.

Life goes on. Some day there will be a book, or not. You whiners are acting like he owes you something, because he started a thread. I think this is why most artists don't share works in progress.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Oct 26, 2014 - 06:50pm PT
my girlfriend keeps me up nites
licky and I have two things in common: we are not writing books about the plane and we don't eat liver

The only thing licky ever writes is insider coded messages to some of you others and his version of a snappy retort to me occasionally (witty repartee seems not to be his forte, if indeed he has a forte) - I've said it b4 and I'll say it agin: licky's a poser, maybe a wannabe but most certainly a phony

and Phuck You jaybro, maybe your butt hurts from the curry roids (bonus points to any Yosemite climbers who remember that graffitti)
but licky's taking too damn long for his work of fart - like my boss used to say on the hotel construction crew "this ain't the phuckin' Taj Mahal you bums, let's go!)"

licky needs old jimmy kicking his ass like we had building those holiday inns
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Oct 26, 2014 - 06:57pm PT
Damn Skidmark, what have you written beyond the drivel you post here? what do you have to offer to anyone beside hate and anger? I feel sad for you. . .df


Edit; wow you got a workie job! Guess it beats the last one you had at the Circle K. Please put up a link so's we can check it out and give you advice. .
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Oct 26, 2014 - 07:07pm PT
don't waste your time bulltwinkletoes - I just got a new job feature writing for an E-zine, that's right, a paid gig - this is a thread, remember? licky is the writer-in-residence at this institution, or more like writer-in-reticence

and in the spirit of the holiday I've done some ghostwriting too, licky needs to get his research haunted, then it might not be such an apparition
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Oct 26, 2014 - 08:13pm PT
As someone who is a successful author posted 3 1/2 years ago:

On the other hand, some of us who actually have written books know that it can be done in less than however many years this one has been going on. Which is not to say that this particular book ought to have been written in a much shorter time span, just saying that it has been going on for a very long time.

As to the lack of goodwill, that's easy: Ask people for help with a project, accept their help, then do not produce the project. People get impatient, and then write snarky comments on internet forums. Maybe they shouldn't get impatient, but they do.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Oct 26, 2014 - 08:52pm PT
I will read the book if it comes out. However, isn't it time for the rock opera in the interim?

or at least,

Rejectees (Plane Wreck at Lake Lower Merced)

Apologies to Woody


"The sky plane caught fire near the Yosemite Valley,
A fireball of lightning, and shook all our hills,
Who are all these friends, all scattered like dry leaves?
The radio says, "They are just Rejectees"


Forum topics 1 - 30. Total messages posted: 2,113,458
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Oct 26, 2014 - 09:31pm PT
don't waste your time bulltwinkletoes - I just got a new job feature writing for an E-zine, that's right, a paid gig - this is a thread, remember? licky is the writer-in-residence at this institution, or more like writer-in-reticence

and in the spirit of the holiday I've done some ghostwriting too, licky needs to get his research haunted, then it might not be such an apparition

perhaps you should ask yourself why you give a shit
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Oct 26, 2014 - 11:25pm PT
Did you really go through five years of posts granite climber....to say that? I'mlmao... You a librarian or something? Sidmo, rhymes with didno...thing interesting with his life
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2014 - 11:32pm PT
As I have said many times before, the book isn't about only those in Yosemite. Unfortunately sidmo seems to think that the only story is what went on after the dope was located and how it benifited those that sold it. I have managed to link the purchase of the plane to a well know Washington political figure and a Bakersfield mega farmer and the IRS, but then that would not be of interest to sidmo. Get on with the book licky. Comic books...that is what comes to mind when I read sidmo's posts.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Oct 27, 2014 - 01:14pm PT
Sidmo didno, cute - as for " well know Washington political figure and a Bakersfield mega farmer and the IRS" . . . WOW!!! NOW YOU'RE REALLY POSTING DUDE - I take it all back . . . what else ya' got?
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 27, 2014 - 04:21pm PT
Sidmo, you realize hat if he publishes his book your whole gig evaporates? You have got nothing but (self) righteous indignation. You offer us nothing!
I ask you, what kind of lame ass shtick is that?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Oct 27, 2014 - 06:01pm PT
i notice you say "if" not "when" - I'll be moving from a rockin' chair to a wheelchair and looking for my bedpan by the time this book gets done - but it really cracks me up that you morons don’t think I'm busy - I sure wish you were right about that
WBraun

climber
Oct 27, 2014 - 06:06pm PT
I'll be moving from a rockin' chair to a wheelchair and looking for my bedpan by the time this book gets done

Good .... I can't wait!!!

Then you'll STFU you retarded narcissistic stalker creep ......
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Oct 27, 2014 - 06:08pm PT
i notice you say "if" - I'll be moving from a rockin' chair to a wheelchair and looking for my bedpan by the time this book gets done - but it really cracks me up that you morons don’t think I'm busy - I sure wish you were right about that

again, you give a sh#t why exactly
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Oct 27, 2014 - 06:12pm PT
whoa brawney - did you call me a creep? you are so mean - and who said i give a shyt?
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Oct 27, 2014 - 06:17pm PT
who said i give a shyt?

just a wild guess

http://www.supertopo.com/forumsearch.php?s=s&o=&v=0&cur=0&ftr1=&ftr2=sidmo&ftr3=&ftr4=#list
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Oct 27, 2014 - 07:47pm PT
You monkeys all respond when I rattle your cage, but licky's the one who's stealing your banana - every now and then one of you musters up the gumption to call him out on the glacial pace of his vanity project - then invariably more of his toady sycophants rises up to shout down the naysayers and defend poor licky's honor . . . and for what? It will be some time before any of us are vindicated, if indeed we ever are - you lickylikers will get to gloat if he publishes, the cynics among us will continue to sneer at his failure and those in between will shake their heads in bewilderment as to how anyone could really give this much of a shyt - if we do, and there the circular logic completes another lap in the irrelevance race
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Oct 27, 2014 - 08:09pm PT
cuvvy, let me recap the sidmo v. everybody else battle
























that's about it

Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Oct 27, 2014 - 09:28pm PT
did you call me a creep?

Appears that the passage of time (namely, 37 years) hasn't changed anybody's opinion.
WBraun

climber
Oct 27, 2014 - 11:02pm PT
This isn't about Licky at all sidmo nutcase.

It's about YOU period.

Yes YOU.

You're a stalking weirdo nutcase moron creep .....
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Oct 27, 2014 - 11:06pm PT
Sidmoron for f*#k's sake, please get some help. You must have a horrible life.

Please stop bumping this thread and the garbage it's become and let it die. Maybe go climbing, if you actually do. Just stop already.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Oct 30, 2014 - 08:16pm PT
I came onto this thread late, though a long time back still I read it occasionally, objectively, analytically and critically and if you look closely you'll likely see what I did: studied and then critiqued a vaguely lain-out project with many fans, cheerleaders and "partners in the effort" by nature of the fact that they shared at least some of what they knew or remembered. The few detractors, Chainsaw in particular, were castigated and whatever the online term for ostracized in a frighteningly similar to Nazi Germany and the "Reagan" revolution. Dissent was not considered but condemned.
Not all of this, perhaps little, was Licky's fault. He laid out the project in an open and surprisingly inclusive manner at first - he erred later by veering to the majority instead of remaining impartial to the developing debate - a real journalist or writer would have sat back and taken notes. "But Licky admitted he wasn't a professional writer." And of course that's true. So he should have used the project as a learning experience, not just about the details of the plane, but on how to go about the production of literature. He'll probably get it in the end if there ever really is one. But that's no reason for me to be getting in the rear end by you fanboys for pushing some differences of opinion.
I'm not climbing abroad so I still have rights to free speech and free will and a free mind. And for you, vegasdude, I just got home from climbing today in fact, and it wasn't in a high-rise elevator at a Strip casino tower - great timing on your blind stupid insult. Maybe before you jump to conclusions, put your foot in your mouth and make an ass out of, if not yourself then certainly your statement, why not try restraint? None of you easily offended readers are forced to click on anything, and there's no quiz later. If you don’t like my posts exercise you right to not read them. But you want to elicit sympathy for a choice you made . . . well that's a hard sell. Vote with your mouse and click away from offending text.
I'm pondered about the reasons for helping Licky, and our motivation for doing so. Those of us who were there are curious to read what we didn't know, how some others came out, and what outsiders knew or cared about the whole drama. Those who weren't are curious for a zillion reasons - from Licky's connections with some of the players to the universal allure of a mystery. So we are all here for highly individualistic and somewhat idiosyncratic reasons that aren't interesting in a broad examination but would be fascinating on an case-by-case investigation. But all this, and that are outliers to the story of the plane crash. Really without the thread this communication drama never happens, and so ain't no story. The plane story has always been a story and will likely last some time. Although the book and movies won't change the debates, they can only focus them onto details and away from personal feuds. We rockgeeks are such a small percentage of any population that we're already in minorities - not much strength to fight back, so it stands to reason that we'd go after one another.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Oct 30, 2014 - 09:54pm PT
^

didn't read

that's a lot of don't give a shit
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Oct 31, 2014 - 06:31am PT
WHAT? No short, insulting, off-topic, delusional knee-jerk responses to my latest ant-licky rant yet? You guys getting lazy or something? Or are you finally waking up to the fact that licky has not earned any respect from strangers here. He plays us in a cliqueish game reminiscent of grade school societies. Line up on his side and sneer at me if you like, but you won't be holding a copy of his book while you do.

whoops - as I was writing that brawny was chiming in in his pajamas I guess - and who is it that's obsessed, and with whom? go back to bed brawny, dissing me ain't worth losing sleep over
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Oct 31, 2014 - 09:16am PT
oh yeah check that out, we posted nearly simultaneously, you at 6:31 am, me about 9 hours earlier

weird coincidence
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2014 - 06:36pm PT
sidmo...I still offer up a meeting with coffee. You up to it?

Come on sidmo...what do you have to loose? We can talk, you can tell me what you know, I can tell you what I know and maybe we can patch up old wounds.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Oct 31, 2014 - 07:41pm PT
brawny, there's a calculator app on your cellaphone, try it when you have arithmetic confusing you - and that math has you stumped brother- and you and licky and I guess myself when I was there, tend to think there's one time zone, pacific, and everyone elsewhere must be totally out of whack - well you're whacked out if you think I spend all my time in California - licky, lets have a virtual cup of java, don't worry not virtuous I couldn't go there but I cant go to san jose either, don't know the way cause I hate the song - but i'll chat with you on a phone on a weekend sometime but you took a lot of stuff personally that should have been easy to ignore - you cant be a writer and get all worked up with attitude about your writing - you're gonna need a much thicker skin if you publish - if you think me, or we have been tough on you just wait, you ain't heard nuthin yet - code me a message, I don't check that email anymore, haven't for years and i'm not printing a good one on here for your minions to abuse - you know, it really is funny just how sympathetic those klowns are to you - have you ever wondered why? is it their brush with fame? if you're real licky and not a poser, etc. distance yourself from the yesboys you have toting your water - they're embarrassingly embarrassing the way they pounce on me or anyone criticizing you - what a bunch of losers, unless you're buying their coffee everyday - man up and stand alone licky, you'll feel better for it - you're into the whole aviation thing, try flying solo - maybe then you can get instrument rated and navigate through the storms of publication
throwpie

Trad climber
Berkeley
Oct 31, 2014 - 08:16pm PT
There was an airplane crash in Merced lake? What happened?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Oct 31, 2014 - 09:13pm PT
the plane got all wet, then so did a ship of fools
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Oct 31, 2014 - 09:24pm PT
creepy how whatever time zone you happen to be in the post time is in Pacific Time

one might almost call it.....crazy










no offense

zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Oct 31, 2014 - 09:49pm PT
Correction:

Marijuana is not dope.
WBraun

climber
Oct 31, 2014 - 09:59pm PT
The only dope is skid-mo.

We used see him around all time back in the day and avoided this fuked up dipsh!t weirdo nutcase back then.

Total goner

And now this fuked up narcissist skid-mo thinks its all about licky.

Skidmo one fuked up stalking psycho creep.

He should be locked up in the nuthouse.

Oh wait ..... he already is.

In own sick self worshiped narcissist screwball stalking world ......
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 31, 2014 - 10:27pm PT
Sidmo...you are burning strands here. I'm offering to sit down and let you tell me what you knew "back then". No strings attached. You name the time and place and I'll be there. What do you have to lose?
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Oct 31, 2014 - 11:32pm PT
That's simple enough to answer. Look at the "man's" post, read into them. Attacking you is probably one of the few things he has left in his life that he has to hang on to. He will never meet with you or anyone else, doesn't have the balls and is too far gone in mental disease to do anything then keep bumping this. And from what I have heard, if he was there it was in the shadows, taking scraps others left behind as he wasn't able to integrate into the Valley society even then. He has nothing to share other then what's left of his diseased mind.
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Nov 1, 2014 - 07:36am PT
Wow! This thread lives. Grown men acting like 7th graders or worse. LOL.

It's actually fun to read.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Nov 1, 2014 - 08:24am PT

^Spidee:

Apparently you misssed this. It says it all succinctly.

BTW are you related to Itsy-Bitsy.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=73572&tn=2100#msg2518003
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Nov 1, 2014 - 08:30am PT
However, this may be even better.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Buck Wilde

Boulder climber
Oregon
Nov 2, 2014 - 04:37pm PT
Howdy Taco,
This is my first post.
I figured it should be in this thread since I just spent the last two weeks, off and on, summiting this beast.
...whew.

I feel like I should shower.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Nov 3, 2014 - 06:33am PT
Licky grow up - you don't get to control everyone's agenda, certainly not mine - you guys can think I'm not busy, I don't care really - I look at this thread every once in a while, post even less and don't think about it in between - if you want to believe otherwise have at it - as for you licky, I do not have time to sip coffee with you period- even if you were kissing my ass, I don’t have time to go anywhere to meet you or the inclination to - but if you think that means I don't get to have an opinion or express myself vote with your mouse and click past my posts - again, I won't know and don't care - if you wanted to talk, on a phone that is, I might squeeze a call in sometime, but it's not something I care much about - I'd like to read a book about the plane, but I read plenty of books and don’t need to - and I don't care if it's your book, someone else's book or no book, but I assure you it won't be my book - you really lost me when you accused me of wanting to steal your research and beat you to press - licky that was so delusional I'm not sure I'd feel safe in the same starbucks with you - and again, I don't have the time to meet you so forget it - phone call only, and only maybe
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Nov 3, 2014 - 08:24am PT
I've never seen anyone not care this hard
Blakey

Trad climber
Sierra Vista
Nov 3, 2014 - 09:55am PT
This has been a great read, from way back when to now.

But I have to chime in........ Sidmo, you are such a flirt! I can almost hear you stamping your foot in indignation at Licky's suggestion (Lordy!)that you meet.

I think your gagging for it really, and Licky has to try just a little harder and he will get to pop your (metaphorical) cherry.

Go on, you know you want it. ;-)

(But if you decide to keep arguing it's still entertaining in a train wreck sort of way!)

Steve
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Nov 3, 2014 - 12:57pm PT
Licky grow up - you don't get to control everyone's agenda, certainly not mine - you guys can think I'm not busy, I don't care really - I look at this thread every once in a while, post even less and don't think about it in between - if you want to believe otherwise have at it - as for you licky, I do not have time to sip coffee with you period- even if you were kissing my ass, I don’t have time to go anywhere to meet you or the inclination to - but if you think that means I don't get to have an opinion or express myself vote with your mouse and click past my posts - again, I won't know and don't care - if you wanted to talk, on a phone that is, I might squeeze a call in sometime, but it's not something I care much about - I'd like to read a book about the plane, but I read plenty of books and don’t need to - and I don't care if it's your book, someone else's book or no book, but I assure you it won't be my book - you really lost me when you accused me of wanting to steal your research and beat you to press - licky that was so delusional I'm not sure I'd feel safe in the same starbucks with you - and again, I don't have the time to meet you so forget it - phone call only, and only maybe


This made me laugh out loud. Sidmo has had the time to follow this thread for years and type up over 300 posts to it. And Sidmo is a one-thread wonder. He has never posted to any other threads, only to this one. This would make you believe that he comes to the Taco only to follow this thread. He has the time to do that. But he's "too busy" to meet. LOL.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Nov 3, 2014 - 01:45pm PT
This made me laugh out loud. Sidmo has had the time to follow this thread for years and type up over 300 posts to it. And Sidmo is a one-thread wonder. He has never posted to any other threads, only to this one.

It's very important that you realize that he could not care less
Synchronicity

Trad climber
British Columbia, Canada
Nov 3, 2014 - 03:14pm PT
Makes you wonder how OCD/narcissistic he can be with things he ACTUALLY cares about....

There are so many interesting offshoots that came from the plane crash and the "gold rush" that followed for the poor climbers of Camp 4 and the adventures that spawned as a result. I've heard several that would make for great storytelling, including one about how a well-known canadian climber who was one of the first up there with a chainsaw cutting through the ice and how he managed to get his loot back across the border into Canada.

Between all the stories and info provided by this "climbers" website and coupled with the backstory of the plane and it's occupants, you've got more than enough info to write a book. Maybe Sidmo is right, are you even working on this anymore? Did you lose interest? Did you realize the task was too great to put into words? The plane crashed in 77, this thread started in 2005, in all that time you still haven't put any pen to paper? If I were you (not only would I be done the book) but I'd take the advice several have given on here and publish the easy story, the gold rush for dirtbags. It's an easy sell a ton of people would love to read. Sure you can claim that climbers are too small a demographic but a lot of mountain literature sells very well. At least well enough for you and Sidmo to get some couples counselling.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Nov 3, 2014 - 03:49pm PT
There are so many interesting offshoots that came from the plane crash and the "gold rush" that followed for the poor climbers of Camp 4 and the adventures that spawned as a result. I've heard several that would make for great storytelling, including one about how a well-known canadian climber who was one of the first up there with a chainsaw cutting through the ice and how he managed to get his loot back across the border into Canada.

I'd like to hear about these and would buy a book that covered this.

I'm not interested in reading about what kind of engine was in the plane, or what kind of sneakers the mechanic was wearing when he last worked on it.
labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Nov 3, 2014 - 03:53pm PT
"I've never seen anyone not care this hard" x2

Agree. The amount of hate is sad.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Nov 3, 2014 - 10:52pm PT
Oh please. You think I hate licky? Or you? Or any of you faceless phuckheads? Hate's big dude, I don't hate licky. Jeez, that’s like all stupid and stuff. Hold his feet to the fire, he should've published by now, unless he's not going to - coffee with me ain't gonna get it done
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Nov 3, 2014 - 11:14pm PT
Heh. I got your number, "sidmo."
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Nov 4, 2014 - 09:14am PT
ask Licky when he's going to publish
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 5, 2014 - 12:03am PT
I'd think by now sidmo you'd have known the answer to your question. I'll publish when I have the complete story. Period. Would you have me do anything less? Simple question, yes or no?
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Nov 5, 2014 - 01:03am PT
I'll publish when I have the complete story.

There is everyone's answer.

The "complete" story (like every story) will never be known therefore this one will never be written.

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
Nov 5, 2014 - 01:39am PT

Topic Author's Reply - May 24, 2014 - 12:59am PT
Reilly, there is always only one pilot. The other is the co-pilot. The pilot was married, the co-pilot was not. The pilot was Jon Glisky, his co-pilot was Scott Nelson

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 5, 2014 - 12:03am PT
. I'll publish when I have the complete story. Period. Would you have me do anything less? Simple question, yes or no?


Pretty sure you have the copilot's name wrong. It might be a while if you wait for the complete story.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Nov 5, 2014 - 01:52pm PT
YES


Somebody ask Mr. Licky IF he's going to publish
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Nov 5, 2014 - 06:13pm PT
Uh, why not just publish what you have now and do a sequel or addendum?

Are you accounting for diminishing returns?

If after all this time, you don't have 98% of the story, then I'm
gonna have to question your research strategy.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Nov 5, 2014 - 07:03pm PT
YEAH LICKY, YOU HEARD HIM - LISTEN UP, DUDE - ZBRO'S RIGHT
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Nov 6, 2014 - 07:47pm PT
Timidity, you're back! Cool! You talk to him, he always listens to you. Ask Licky if he really wants to publish . . . or not?
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Nov 6, 2014 - 08:02pm PT
Wow, brief AND coherent

you back on your meds for a little while?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Nov 6, 2014 - 09:22pm PT
Brawny! My buddy, get on board, brother - ask Licky if he sent that manuscript to the printers yet
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Nov 6, 2014 - 09:24pm PT
I would except i don't really give a f*#k

he can never publish for all i care
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Nov 6, 2014 - 10:40pm PT
see, that's the problem

Licky wants you to care, to wait patiently as he toils away - he wants you to help without thanks, to confess without benefit, to betray without penalty

and to kiss his ace the whole time

everybody ask Licky if he's planning to publish
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 6, 2014 - 10:57pm PT
everybody ask Licky if he's planning to publish

Sometimes it's just about the journey.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Nov 6, 2014 - 11:01pm PT
Licky wants you to care

you are literally the only person on earth who does
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Nov 6, 2014 - 11:27pm PT
Oh Brawny, dont be so easily fooled – I don’t care like you think I care, I’m just goosing lackey- I still think he might respond to jeer pressure so let’s pile on

I’d like to read the book before I die, so anybody ask Licky “is you’all gwine to publish?”
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 7, 2014 - 11:24pm PT
Every August I reread what I've written. Each time I am confronted by new information that either contradicts what I have been told or opens new doors for me to explore. Did a Park Ranger descover the plane and it's cargo before anyone else made it up to the lake? How is it that the DEA Agent In Charge lost all of the evidence and ended up as beat cop in a California town and eventually got busted for shop lifting and had to leave the state? Sure, these stories don't seem to interest sidmo, but they do me. And I hate to say it sidmo, its not about you....its about me and my research. So take your f*#king rant and sit on it...I have way too much other information to work on that a piss ant like you. Enough said...no more sidmo for me
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Nov 7, 2014 - 11:30pm PT
What a crappy event to become obsessed with.

Of note, I only read the last 3 posts.
briham89

Big Wall climber
santa cruz, ca
Nov 7, 2014 - 11:38pm PT
Of note, I only read the last 3 posts.

Agreed....me too.

Let's go rock climbing ha
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Nov 8, 2014 - 12:29am PT
Did a Park Ranger descover the plane and it's cargo before anyone else made it up to the lake?

Homie, if you don't know by now that two rangers discovered the plane while on winter backcountry patrol...well, sure, whatever.

And you misspelled "discover."
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
Nov 8, 2014 - 02:37am PT

Nov 8, 2014 - 12:29am PT
Did a Park Ranger descover the plane and it's cargo before anyone else made it up to the lake?

Homie, if you don't know by now that two rangers discovered the plane while on winter backcountry patrol...well, sure, whatever.

And you misspelled "discover."

Why is this thread called the 1977 plane crash?

The plane was discovered by the Rangers in December 1976.

The only thing related to the plane in 1977 was a lot of pot smoking.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Nov 8, 2014 - 07:23am PT
While we're waiting for Licky's book, I'll mention a work of fiction based on the plane wreck. First recommended by Hossjulia here on ST, it's called High Country and written by Nevada Barr, part of a series about a woman park ranger who has adventures and solves crimes in various national parks around the country.

Camp 4 and the climbers have a cameo appearance as the real action takes place among park employees and a drug cartel. The rangers are clueless until the end, when the whole scene is resolved. Of course one is left wondering if the author had some inside information or just made most of it up, based on a minimum of real information. Entertaining for the what ifs and the descriptions of life in the park for rangers and concession employees.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 8, 2014 - 07:41am PT
Let's hope the book is as entertaining and educational as this thread is, eh?

I've read a number of books yhat were based on similarly mundane events yet worked well
aas a carrier, if you will, for intriguing voyages on tangents. As I discovered in Tuscany tripe
by itself isn't particularly noteworthy but it also serves as a greàt carrier for memorable sauces.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Nov 9, 2014 - 12:48am PT
Hey climberdudes, it'd the old pissant sidmo here, taking a break from pissing on fire ant mounds to respond to our leader

ARE YOU FOOLING YOURSELF LICKY? 'CAUSE WE'VE ALL HEARD YOUR JIVE FOR TOO PHUCKIN MANY YEARS NOW - SO YOU'RE "THROUGH" WITH ME? OUCH THAT HURTS!!! YOU WERE NEVER INTO ANYONE WHO EITHER WASN'T YOU, OR SAID CRAP YOU AGREED WITH - IF YOU ARE SO KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT THE PLANE, LIKE FROM ALL YOUR NARC BUDDIES, WHAT THE HECK DID YOU NEED US TO CHIME IN FOR?

YOU PHUCKIN PHONY - YOU CAN'T WRITE YOUR WAY OUT OF A WET PAPER BAG WITH A HOLE IN IT - YOU'RE STUCK, ADMIT IT


SOMEBODY ASK LICKY IF HE CAN PUBLISH, OR IF HE CAN'T - SEEMS LIKE ALL HE DOES IS RANT
AND RANT RHYMES WITH CAN'T - HE CAN'T WRITE AND CAN'T PUBLISH AND MY GUESS IS CAN'T, AND NEVER COULD CLIMB
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2014 - 08:49pm PT
A libelous/slanderous lawsuit would result in a subpoena for SuperTopo to divulge the....naw....I don't think I'll go there yet.

How about the latest California cyber bully laws. Naw...I'll not use them either.

sidmo...you are one very strange and deranged personality. All this because I originally turned down your offer to proofread and edit my book. You never offered up any bonfires as to your background. You never offered up any samples of your work. And yet you wanted me to open my back door and let you in.

I think in the long run sidmo's ID will be discovered. And yet I'll not let on to who he is so he'll be able to sleep at night along with Chainsaw.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Nov 9, 2014 - 09:07pm PT
Sometimes it's just about the journey.

What a long strange trip it's been. Point well taken.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Nov 9, 2014 - 09:18pm PT
A libelous/slanderous lawsuit would result in a subpoena for SuperTopo to divulge the....naw....I don't think I'll go there yet.

How about the latest California cyber bully laws. Naw...I'll not use them either.

sidmo...you are one very strange and deranged personality. All this because I originally turned down your offer to proofread and edit my book. You never offered up any bonfires as to your background. You never offered up any samples of your work. And yet you wanted me to open my back door and let you in.

I think in the long run sidmo's ID will be discovered. And yet I'll not let on to who he is so he'll be able to sleep at night along with Chainsaw.

C'mon Ric, I can't speak for skidmore, but most of us here would like for you to just finish and publish the book. Don't waste time posting this sheeit. If what you publish is incorrect, it will get corrected no doubt.

If it hasn't already, the thread is going to trump the book and we all know that DMT has already copyrighted (or at least contemplated copyrighting) the thread, don't we?

People do die though (especially pilots (Shades of Shogun)) and I would hate to go to my deathbed without knowing why in the heck they weren't using a sea(read pontoon)plane or better yet a bus.


That's not a greyhound, it's the real thing and I said pontoon, not poontang.

WBraun

climber
Nov 9, 2014 - 09:34pm PT
Skidmo is 100% an anonymous cyber stalker towards one individual.

You're getting banned aszhole.

There's no way around it skidmo.

Your number is up aszhole .......
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Nov 9, 2014 - 09:42pm PT
Incomming! - It seems slizmo that you better duck and run.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Nov 10, 2014 - 08:28am PT
In High Country, some of the Curry employees were small town dope peddlers who got in over their heads with the drug cartel whose plane it was. The book opens with the disappearance of four Curry employees, presumed dead.

I wondered if the rangers interviewed for the book hadn't mentioned petty drug dealing already going on in the park? Anyway, it's an interesting thriller with a lot of surprise twists and turns.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Nov 10, 2014 - 08:34am PT
YOU PHUCKIN PHONY - YOU CAN'T WRITE YOUR WAY OUT OF A WET PAPER BAG WITH A HOLE IN IT - YOU'RE STUCK, ADMIT IT

So burchey and khanom get deleted yet this guy gets to stick around and hurl insults endlessly!??

Fvck this site.
John M

climber
Nov 10, 2014 - 09:42am PT
The rest is twistory.

LOL.. exactly.

I think Sidmo is a frigging whack job pain in the ass and would like to know who he is.

That said.. Licky, I hope you finish the book because I would love to hear the tale. I understand that you have a need to know the whole story and figure it out precisely, but I don't believe that that is always possible. If you know any cops, then you have probably heard stories about how disparate peoples memories are. I discovered recently that my own memories of events I participated in were almost completely off. It was a funny process to discover that. So I know that it happens.

So perhaps a solution is to do your best to tell the tale and then just tell it, Maybe you could put in that there is conflicting information, and relate the conflicting information. Then the readers can make up their minds what they want to believe. At least that is a solution that would get the book done, because some of us really would like to read the tale.

In ten years I will still probably want to read it, but I might not have the funds to buy a book. And I might just be dead. :-) So my hope is that you finish it soon. Good luck.. I'm rooting for you.



A side note. I thought the Nevada Barr book was weak. Too many improbabilities. She phoned that one in. Some of her books are pretty good. I like the cave one and the one based on the big fire in Yellowstone. But some times she whiffs it. This one in my opinion was a whiff. but I like where Jan is going.. Trying to understand if she had some inside info that she used for her book, no matter how bad one thinks the book was.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Nov 10, 2014 - 12:48pm PT
This was the first Nevada Barr book I read and I liked it just because it was an improbable escape and fun to see what someone would do with a story I already had an inside track on.I read so much heavy duty academic stuff that when I read for fun, I want it to be far away from that and High Country fit the bill. Great literature it was not.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Nov 10, 2014 - 12:54pm PT
POS OP. Trolling, trolling.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Nov 10, 2014 - 02:42pm PT
"Angels Of Light" is still, despite all it's flaws, the archetypal and really fun-to-read crash book. The writer did a pretty good job nailing the atmosphere of an extended valley hang.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Nov 10, 2014 - 06:28pm PT
Angels of Light by Jeff Long (Signed First Edition)
eBay - $60.00 down from $75.00


Hey there say, Ric, in recognition of my long on unwavering support of your research and writing efforts, am I gonna get a signed first edition?

Have you considered revising it a bit and submitting to UCLA as a dissertation. Mr. Castaneda pulled it off and BTW I do have his signature.

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Nov 10, 2014 - 06:41pm PT
signed copy, how mundane. I want to pay Chessler 1000 bucks for a copy with the author's bugger smeared on the inside cover.

You really should cut sidmo in on this, he has so much time invested in this project. He could write the foreword.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Nov 10, 2014 - 06:52pm PT
If I am ---really---really, very & really bored, I click on this thread every year or two.

It does look like sidmo has "a dog in the fight."

Below in quotes: is his second post on the thread, & since 2008 all his 278 posts on ST have only been on this thread.


Sep 17, 2008 - 03:44pm PT
not sure how filter works - ok, here's more vague recollections - the plane was for many of us, our first brush with unlimited wealth (or so it seemed at the time) - someone remarked about yabo eating in the MR instead of scrounging trays in the caf - well there was way more than that, without insulting guys who got by on so little (and guys, like yabo, who were so talented we couldn't even carry their chalk bag deserve to be remembered for what they did on the rock and not how they fueled their ascents) - it was a seismic shift in attitudes that occured subsequent to the plane - and more than new tents in camp 4 - a lot of climbers who were around at the time weren't just in sunnyside - many of us flew under the radar in cabins and dorms even without jobs (and sometimes even without girlfriends) - we were exposed to a good bit of risk as we operated under the nose of LEOs and the few federales downtown - to be seen was to be noticed, and many of us lived undercover but lived well - my personal vice was taking chances by eating at the ahwahnee every day - but everyone knew why we could do that all of a sudden - and the shift in tastes was more than gastronomic - gold lumbo was replaced by white line fever, and french wine with handmade labels - spent a few hundred bucks in chinatown once on korean ginseng - there was a comprehensive shift in consumption habits, and some of us weren't the better for it - but i learned lessons that i needed to learn, as i alluded to in my first post - when real wealth came later in life, wealth that was self-perpetuating and not just like living in a town where everyone hit the lottery at the same time, i was better able to resist temptation, or at least moderate it - imagine if some of us had been given credit cards before we learned (from the plane) how to handle wealth?
i shudder to think - but onto the negativity - we honestly believed that: A/ some of us took too much (were greedy), and B/bad luck followed those good-guys-gone-bad
now i'm not into the naming names thing - if my cryptic references to the vw van at the garage in the village with its head stoved in between the headlights don't ring a bell about a subsequent death and the miraculous recovery of a leg i'd rather not elaborate in this forum - but another loss was far from home, in the east bay and grisly like a bad movie - all of a sudden our idyllic life in the valley was shattered by obsene wealth, followed closely by equally obsene greed - that's apart of the story that needs to be told as well - for every frugal hippie that bought land and settled down there was another who developed a nasty habit that lingered on far longer than the sudden wealth - to me, that was the sad thing about it - we were happy and broke, and then wealthy and frustrated by concerns that never existed before - anyone who danced at cedar grove on a weekend night must remember all the trips outside and back in - hell, we might as well have been at studio 54 instead of down the road in midpines, except we still dressed like climbers - some habits are hard to break and we learned how hard after the plane - i hope i'm both making sense and not making sense, if you were there you should understand at least some of this even if viewed through the narrow perspective of sunnyside - there was a lot of money spent on things other than gear, although we blew a ton on gear/gadgets too - if you look at what just happened with the mortgage crisis you can see what damage sudden wealth/credit can do to people with weak wills - don't get me wrong, i had my fun and don't regret it, but as my friends gradually developed problems they never had before the plane i gained a healthy respect for honest poverty





zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Nov 10, 2014 - 07:08pm PT
^That doesn't appear to have a signature, electronic or otherwise. Could it have been sidmo's (evil?) twin?


By way of comparison, Ric has never hidden his identity nor attacked anyone.


Topic Author's Original Post - May 21, 2005 - 10:35pm PT

In 1977 a plane loaded with dope crashed into Lower Merced Pass Lake. I knew the pilot and his wife since high school. His wife and I are working on co-authoring a book about the incident. I am looking for anyone that can recall any stories about what went on in the area during the first few weeks following the crash. We are not looking to expose anyone, we are looking for stories to add to what we already knew happened up to that night.I have talked to a few ex park employees that were there at the time and have gotten their take on things. Anyone else?

Rick Schloss
San Jose, CA
408-295-1501

BTW, more than 45% of the posts on this thread have been cooked up by me, mouse de Merced, & Donini and posted under a number of easily assumable ST identities with the full knowledge of CMAC in a successful effort to drive up website traffic and revenues.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Nov 10, 2014 - 08:59pm PT
YOU ARE SO RIGHT!

now, who am I saying that to? any of you that want to believe it, including licky - and this IS licky's thread whether he likes it or not - Dr. Frankenstein got a little tired of his creation as well - not surprising licky wants to lash out at me, it's the old "kill the messenger" response - message is: Licky sucks as a writer - now is that actionable? I kind of doubt it, or whether attacking me will help get the book out - as if licky needed any more distractions - I think someday. when licky finally ends his quixotic quest and abandons the book project he will somehow blame me, and that's ok, but ludicrous - i'm no threat, and no distraction to a focused writer - licky has asked the questions, are there any more forthcoming? if not, why doesn't he just stay off the thread? I promise to stop posting if licky will, beginning now - as for folks who discredit me because I haven't posted on other ST threads, I've checked some out and found them lacking and i simply wasn't interested enough to post - if that discredits me then i'm in good company - for the record, I busted up my knee in '78, '83 and '85, as a result I haven't climbed since '79 or skied since '81, there are other things in life, mountain biking, frisbee golf, education, etc. - I admire you guys from my generation who still beat the rock, but just be happy that you still can, not disdainful of those of us who cannot - and don't despair if you have to hang up the chalk bag someday, there's life after near-death, and television, too - goodbye fellas, it's been a real hoot
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Nov 10, 2014 - 09:57pm PT
Jesus wept.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 10, 2014 - 09:59pm PT
But he didn't when he built my hotrod so I don't care.
Albion

Trad climber
Bristol, UK
Nov 25, 2014 - 11:04am PT
Some interesting comments under this photo -

https://flic.kr/p/a6imPP
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Nov 25, 2014 - 05:44pm PT
looks like this fella beat you to it licky, he wrote the whole story in 517 words - now you can unlax and puff a doobie, your work here is done
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Nov 25, 2014 - 06:06pm PT
Uh, sidmo, what's your next project gonna be?

Attica, Attica, Attica

Brotherhood of Eternal Love, Brotherhood of Eternal Love, Brotherhood of Eternal Love

Ferguson, Ferguson, Ferguson

Simi Valley, Simi Valley, Simi Valley

Coronado Co., Coronado Co., Coronado Co.

Free Tim Leary, Free Tim leary, Free Tim Leary

Hashish-tag, Hashish-tag, Hashhish-tag

Hippie Mafia, Hippie Mafia, Hippie Mafia

Orange Sunshine, Orange Sunshine, Orange Sunshine







Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Nov 25, 2014 - 06:33pm PT
your work here is done

but i'm guessing yours isn't
Albion

Trad climber
Bristol, UK
Nov 26, 2014 - 04:56am PT
https://twitter.com/lodestardoc/with_replies

Out of focus productions?

has this documentary surfaced yet?

<cough>
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Nov 26, 2014 - 06:02am PT
yeah so I hear there was this private jet that crashed in the climbing zone of all climbing zones. Yosemite and you will never believe this ... the plane was full of pot .....
I was young, just a kid, but it was the story that fueled an alternative life style, that took off with No nukes and Green Peace,mixed with Feed the people and the Dead, the whole thing started and ends at the point of classic cosmic Geschtalt or another phsycological theory of smashing worlds together to see what the results on societies of vastly differing types, will be. Any way it was the legend of the plane and the shinning moment, of the brief winter to haul as and get what you could that led to inner if not expressed outward hopes and dreams of the climbers. Many who were all ready on the road trip to find a plane load of pot of their own.

Any more and........ can YOU pay me to write it .....?.?.????




really I just need to know some facts ...How much pot was there?.
What was your gig and how do you fit in
late to the party could you please fill me in

I figure that I have about thirty more post etts to stuff in to play catch the end of a soon dead thread

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Nov 26, 2014 - 07:02am PT
A DEAD THREAD? - WON'T YOU BE GRATEFUL FOR THAT LICKY?


Licky, you'd better finish frying that turkey so you can finish writing that other turkey

Documentary out now? Who's gonna buy or read the book if they can watch it on the teevee? Better hunker down in the teepee and type, type, type, type . . . c'mon licky, Vegas oddsmakers have the video coming out before your book by 3-1 as of last check, prove 'em wrong - I'm putting down a fin on the docu-dudes



Good list Z, I'll have to pick one
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Nov 26, 2014 - 07:58am PT
There is this canyon in the middle of the nexus of residential real estate and ill planning. A park of a houses in the hart of an outdoor play ground or as the sprawl has grown out,
Just another over-run paradise, with a housing development to show for it's success.
Ferguson, Ferguson, Ferguson.???????z was et the FFF ya meant????
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Nov 26, 2014 - 08:52am PT



huh? I get confused easy-like, what canyon you talking about?

how many years. how many posts, how many angry replies does it take to write a book?

licky could write a book about writing a book, if he could write a book that is

2200 drivelous posts down, how many still to go?
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Nov 26, 2014 - 09:23am PT
question:
How many more?
Answer:
At least one more.
Question:
What canyon??
Answer:
Ferguson Canyon outside of Salt Lake City Utah.

Ferguson is a climbing destination that is dwarfed by the number of other good zones near by.
The. place was once a hot bed of good leadable 5.11&12s.

The sprawl and residential real estate boom of the '90s caused some issues,parking?and may have cost ...I d not know, what the, access is like now.

I posted a Utah appreciation thread .....
So did Jaybro........

Ferguson .".......climbing is it allowed???
Ferguson .".........climbing where to park???
Ferguson ."..........How are the old bolts???
Ferguson ."...........what were the names???
Ferguson ."............ The Fortress? Armageddon?
Ferguson .".............The bolted route up on the left?.

Any one love that small canyon that got to much love as it were??
I think a plain Jane used to crash there with her man plain Fred, or was it Kenny???
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Nov 26, 2014 - 06:49pm PT
Sidmore,

Yes it’s me I am back. Thought you were saying bye bye.

“goodbye fellas, it's been a real hoot” Just a stalker. One that is easy to find out.

Things I cannot understand: When you first posted no caps, no paragraphs, never made sense, it was always about you as in I. Then you made many constant mistakes but the best one lately was the three hour time zone difference? I remember a few years ago and I was out of country well before you were awake [I don’t know maybe you were awake] I was 13 hours ahead and when I posted it showed on ST, PAC time. Strange what country were you in where you were three hours.

You finally learned from other ST posts of your ramblings: you now write in sentences, periods, I guess you must have graduated: so my question what don’t you write our own book. You say you are a writer.

There are two stories out on “Who really killed Bin Laden”, I read the first when it first came out, in fact read before the book came out: sure the author made a few mistakes in giving out intelligence info but it was not anything new. He now agrees to the mistakes. As for the US going after him ?

As for the recent one on FOX news: I felt it more of a Geraldo Rivera show since it should clips [2] with his comments, when the team members read of the news about the mission.


Then there was the WalMart scene that the guy [who says he thinks he hit the first shot that killed him] dad gets all emotional about. The commercials followed and felt ‘I can see it now or by New’s year “WalMarts shirts, towels, t-shirts……………………… I could be wrong. You know just like Duck Dynasty apparel.

The second team member who is the hero left out what the original team member said but add other things and scenes which is questionable but FOX and anti-Obama military propaganda go together.

More books are coming out what really happened “Fog of War”

There are three maybe four that deals with the plane on other ST posts and you do not comment.

As for time and getting the right info takes time:


The lady in the picture is very intelligent, she’s a reader [not by books] but in a different way and can conclude that you are nothing. She has a few thoughts what you look for and in what people say and act.
So you maybe a wannabe, the info already known, a dead end and not relatable source. Not to be trusted, hear say: I say all of them. There were a couple of notes written maybe you would know or wrote. You have to look back in the posts.

So STORYMAN tell us your story: All the info is here should have it done by the first of next week. Eh? You have the publishing contacts. Just come up with some dough publish 100 books, sell them or write it on here.

First look up infrasonic 17Hz tone that is a radio wave. Which Hz will show and tell for you.



Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Nov 26, 2014 - 08:09pm PT
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=73572&tn=1680

Where's my reward?
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Nov 26, 2014 - 08:43pm PT
Great clip of a 500 flyby, love the roar of those engines

Howard 500 Flyby
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Nov 26, 2014 - 09:07pm PT
Where's my reward?

A fairer question has never been asked and equally un-fairly never answered.

It's kinda like the sound of one hand clapping, a tree falling in the forest when a bear is taking a sheeit and/or the publication date of the Aero-Drug World According to Ric.

There's actually some pretty funny stuff on this thread. Thanks sidmo.

Just for those only passing through, if you type [/quotE] it doesn't work like when you don't capitalize the e, which probably isn't all that important unless you are Elvin "The Big E" Hayes.

Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Nov 26, 2014 - 09:35pm PT
I for one, have enjoyed climbing in ferguson canyon, just uphill from what I've been told, is the busiest 7-11 in the world.
reptyle

Trad climber
Kali
Nov 26, 2014 - 10:41pm PT
California Statute os Limitations vary a little based on the "crime", but stands at seven years for something like this. Federal Statutes need a little more research. In any case everyone who fetched the gasoline soaked chronic was clear bye1985.
Besides the taste of fuel, it was good smonk. I remember some of the stories very well. I had some pieces of the plane for years. Souvenirs.
Reptyle .
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
Nov 26, 2014 - 11:39pm PT
Don't hold your breath.

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 22, 2007 - 02:24am PT
As for the book. Its getting down to the wire. I'm now just tying up loose ends as far as the sequence of events go.

I was the same age as the pilot when he died. I hope I get to read it before I push worms.

Actuarials say I have 17 years.
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Nov 27, 2014 - 06:12am PT
A babe in 73 does not make a babe in 2014
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Nov 27, 2014 - 08:12am PT
^Well in this case it does. Q.E.D.


On the off chance that anyone is paying attention.

You oughta see the video of my sweetheart (from 1973) fully 4 years before the infamous plane crash, when she was a VP at PSA. She was and still is quite a babe and could fly an L1011 with the best of them.

If anyone has any information send it to me via ST PM because I'm thinking of doing a book.

I will soon post my address in Merced in order for you to send packages, cookies, fish tacos, in and out burgers, and lumps of coala.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Nov 27, 2014 - 12:26pm PT
i hate to burst anyone's bubble about punctuation, but here goes: times like this, when I interrupt something else going on (today that's turkey and footbaall) to check email and/or topo posts I may not want to open Microsoft word to blast out a reply or rant or diatribe or whatever - so I type hurriedly using hyphens instead of periods, not capitalize or spellcheck because quite frankly you readers are not worth the trouble - when i'm working, and I kill some time or try to break writer's block by checking and/or posting on topo i'll write my reply or rant in word and cut and paste into the topo thread - if you want to read into my punctuation or lack thereof any more than that then you live up to my low expectations of you intellectually - when I tell you that I don't care what you think, think about this: why would I lie? where's the benefit? I wouldn't know you morons if you all walked in the door right now - sure, I probably knew a few of you then, mouse seems a likely candidate for a past associate if not friend but again, who cares? we are all either part of the plane's history or interested in it - why would anyone lie about it unless there were trying to impress some babe like that one in the last picture and get into her life/pants? now she is pretty and I might lie to her, except I never found lying to women a good idea in the long run, they can usually tell if you are - but most of you are not female and not blessed with that intuition - so as I've said before, stop attacking or focusing on me or any other poster except the licky - he's a phony at best and a narc at worst - as for statutes of limitations, they are not the only concern - at the beginning of this thread there was concern mentioned about how dredging up the past might negatively affect some players at a time when they'd prefer to live the new lives they've built for themselves - so for the record, I believe I've said this before but I don't study the threads so perhaps not, but allow me to capitalize this important point - I WAS INVOLVED WITH SOME OTHER FELLAS DURING THE PLANE THAT I AM UNABLE TO FIND NOW - WITHOUT THEIR EXPLICIT PERMISSION I CANNOT AND WILL NOT TELL MY STORY TO A THREAD OR OVER A CUP OF COFFEE WITH ANYONE - IT WOULD BE THE SAME AS SNITCHING ON A FRIEND - YOU YOUNGER READERS MIGHT NOT GET TTHIS, BUT IN THE DAY, THAT IS BACK IN THE DAY THE WORST SIN WAS TO SNITCH ABOUT DRUG-RELATED ISSUES - I HOLD TO THAT CREDO STILL, SORRY - UNLESS I CAN LOCATE TWO UNNAMED PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE FALLEN OFF AN ALASKAN FISHING BOAT BY NOW FOR ALL I KNOW I WILL NOT TELL DETAILS OF MY STORY - IT WOULD BE BAD KARMA TO DO SO - AND IF YOU WANT TO SNEER AT ME FOR THAT THEN SNEER ON - AND PHUCK OFF!!!!!!!!

AND JUST BECAUSE LICKY LETS US IN ON HIS ID AND LOCATION DOESN'T MAKE HIM RIGHT - CLIMBERS ARE SOME OF THE MOST EASYGOING FOLKS AROUND AND HE HAS NOTHING TO FEAR - WHEN MY JOURNALISM TREADS ON SHAKY GROUND I TREAT MY SOURCES WITH GREAT RESPECT AND THEY OFTEN ASK NOT TO BE IDENTIFIED - IT'S ALWAYS BETTER TO HAVE AN ATTRIBUTABLE SOURCE, BUT MOST EDITORS WILL ALLOW SOME REFERENCES TO REMAIN UNNAMED (GOOGLE BEN BRADLEE+DEEP THROAT) AS LONG AS THERE IS SOMEWHAT CORROBORATING EVIDENCE AND THE PRACTICE IS NOT OVERUSED - LICKY, BEING A NOVICE MUST NOT KNOW THIS, OR CARE - SUPERTOPOPPOSTERS SHOULD CALL HIM OUT ON THIS - HE'S USING HIS SOURCES INAPPROPRIATELY AND UNPROFESSIONALLY AND SHOULD NOT BE REWARDED FOR THAT
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 27, 2014 - 12:29pm PT
Sidmo, when I was at the Vatican last month I lit a votive candle for you.
But I had to bum the 50 Euritos from Father Sarducci.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Nov 27, 2014 - 12:47pm PT
Let me type several hundred more words about how little I care about all this but don't ask me to use punctuation because YOU ARE NOT WORTH THE TROUBLE
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Nov 27, 2014 - 01:32pm PT
Wow! I am impressed need to go back and see the movie, what were the words they let you write for which scene.


Edit:

I am Puzzled why don't you have this: Any intelligent writer has one. Get the ear mike that when you are taking a pee and your comp is three rooms away still will write what you said. Does Caps, just say end with period, next sentence, new paragraph.................... corrects words for you................



It even works in the rain.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Nov 27, 2014 - 06:06pm PT
again, please clear this up for me: am I supposed to be punctuating for YOUR benefit, LICKY'S, or my own? you think I need the dragon and perhaps I do, but again, WHY? and why is my punctuation an issue to be concerned with on a rockclimbing website, or within a thread of a potential book pre-critique? why don't you ask licky when he's going to publish? why don't you ask licky if he's going to publish? if he's not, why don't you ask licky why he's so concerned with personal facts from strangers regarding their past illegalities? why don't you care? are you all so trusting as to give a stranger a free ride with your secrets? just because he let's you in on the fact that he's from san jose and used to know someone connected to the story? can you believe him? should you?
WBraun

climber
Nov 27, 2014 - 06:16pm PT
Skidrow skidmo

If licky finishes the book in year 2025 good for him.

If licky finishes the book tomorrow good for him.

If licky finishes the book in the near future good for him.

If licky never finishes the book good for him.

It's his book and his very own life to do as he pleases so fuk off stupid loon stalker.

Get your own life you psychotic screwball stalker and leave him the fuk alone.

YOU are insane ......
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Nov 27, 2014 - 06:22pm PT
^^^Dude, Sickmo, you're really enjoying being a c#&%, aren't you?

I think you're BORING (comma insertion) AS IN TRYING TO SQUEEZE OUT THAT TURD THAT WON'T MOVE!

Enjoy your turkey-ness, period, and STFU.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Nov 27, 2014 - 06:24pm PT
"With a mind that multiplied the smallest matter"
"if you cannot bring good news ..."

Do you listen to music sid? How are the soles of your feet?

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Ric:

Haul on the bowline! Like all tuff sailors do. Loose ends, split ends, spliffs. I sure hope you get the buch out before Marley Natural hits
the shelves.

Just in case, I have trademarked and copyrighted Lower Merced Pass SuperNatural ©®

Our slogans


EDIT: I have been informed that our slogans suck. Back to the drawing board.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Nov 27, 2014 - 07:43pm PT
Sidmo serving up the turkey, how appropriate. Is that avgas I smell in the turkey?
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Nov 27, 2014 - 08:20pm PT
go man go! keep up the brilliant replies and the relevant links and the undying devotion to the stranger - he deserves your support hose, I mean he's given so much here - his selfless dedication has certainly produced some astounding results so far, eh?
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Nov 27, 2014 - 08:28pm PT
^Don't tell me you you got something against Rod Stewart.

I'd die for the man. he saved me from a life of despair and self-pity.

Or wait, was it Rod McKuen. It was one of those Rods, I'm pretty sure, but email or regular mail me your insider knowledge of just which one.

“Strangers are just friends waiting to happen”
― Rod McKuen
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Nov 27, 2014 - 08:53pm PT
Rod's rad dog.
reptyle

Trad climber
Kali
Nov 27, 2014 - 10:01pm PT
Tried this once, but it didn't post.
The Statute of limitations varies some, depending on the nature of the crime, at least in California. Federal Statutes sbould be very close. In any case everyone in tbis case would have been clear by 1985.
Tbe two people that died were murdered in the Bay Area, if I remember correctly.
The smonk was good, but tasted of avgas.
The first report of the crash came to the old Mountain Shop, where some locals convinced the skler to delay reporting for a couple of days. By the time the first Park Service law enforcement types reached the scene, the crime scene was contaminated by abandoned sleeping bags, tents, chain saws and other items that would otherwise haven taken up valuable pack space.
Much of the chronic had been contaminated by aviation gas. It was still seen around the ditch as late.as 1979.
I still have a piece of the plane somewhere. A blue fibreglass piece about a foot square with red pinstripe and rivit holes.
For some years later one blade of the prop was stuck in the mud and leaneed against a fallen log and carried the following inscription; To the two unsung heroes that gave their lives for the American marijuana movement. Long may their souls fly high on the wing.

Reptyle D-<
Meme Guy

Boulder climber
NC
Nov 28, 2014 - 07:33am PT
This has reached a regoddamndiculous level. Licky, your consumption of all that food yesterday is contributing to the plaque in your blood and your gonna die before you are able to publish a god damn thing. Clearly, don't want this to happen....sooooo post the f*#k up! I don't care about some f*#k stick of a cop shoplifting, that shits irrelevant.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Nov 28, 2014 - 03:40pm PT

This thread is krazy - like licky - SOLs don't matter, privacy rights do - if people don’t give their permission to tell their story you're a schmuck if you do it anyway - I cant get my guys permission to talk so I won't, sorry little licky - I think I summed it up well back in '05 when I was still chainsaw:




chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
May 23, 2005 - 03:16pm PT
Perhaps people who were or were not involved would rather the subject was laid to rest. The seventies were a crazy time. Todays young people may not understand the climate in which our heros made those decisions. If you tarnish the reputations of those people you :

hurt the sport of climbing
ruin peoples reputations
may put sombody in jail
enrage law enforcement who will now view climbers as criminals
dont even know these people
encourage young people to screw up
help noone


zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Nov 28, 2014 - 05:38pm PT
If that dog actually made it to the lake and back he's about the longest living Yorkie I've ever run across. I wonder if he'll object to having his image flaunted all across the internet?

It was, however and afterall, a crazy period. For instance I believe I actually smoked some of that stuff, but like Messers Reagan and Clinton and Ms. Lewinski have observed, "you don't have to inhale to enjoy a good cigar" and I'm positive that I would not have inhaled.
Psilocyborg

climber
Nov 28, 2014 - 06:25pm PT
If that dog actually made it to the lake and back he's about the longest living Yorkie I've ever run across.

time travel brah
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Nov 28, 2014 - 06:37pm PT
New Yorkie Sour Diesel, bro. Soaked in avgas.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Nov 29, 2014 - 03:24pm PT
Dr. Strange “I, meme Guy” and you now are pretending in calling yourself The Chairsawknoweverything

Looks like you took down your last post couple of days ago, change of writers block? But what about that last rant; are you calling yourself: referring to as Mr. [yourself] as in Mr. Strange as nuts or as The “Mister Mystery man” one who knows everything, has the keys if it wasn’t for you this site would be nothing?

Writers especially investigated one has sources and goes back, studies and evaluates. Tries to come to a conclusion/s. You do neither.

If I was writing it [you should know this], I would put your name at the end where you can look at the page/s for reference, appendixes, people who contributed…………. You know that section your name would be on.

R….Page:7 R….Pages:667,98,302-304 S.Pages:42,42,43 S :60 Sidmo: Pages: 20, 30-45, 90, 303

You are so excited, Yes,Yes, you drop the book, pick it up and start with page 20. Hmm? Not even my name mentioned, I will read it slower. Something’s wrong, nothing about that, what, hmm. You go back to reference page maybe you read it wrong: PAGE 20, go to the page again making sure it says 20; you read it again same thing, go back a few pages to 19, or forward maybe it’s there? 21 still nothing. You follow up on all the other ones no mention of your name or story?

Did Amazon send me the right book? You call, they send another [tell them you never got it that way will not to pay again] you wait and it comes the next day, looks the same sure enough Pages: 20. 30-45, 90, 303.

You read about the couple that bought in Lake Tahoe started a business, nice house and a good number of acres, same guy that can recall the days before the plane crash and did some of the blanket parties on MCA security. The MCA guy that got the beating left the valley and never came back.

You keep looking: still can’t find your name, no story: written already by someone who was there. Now you have to read the whole book maybe I mention you in a different chapter: still nothing.

The one thing I find about you Slid that are one that loves attention.

I was going to refrain in calling you names; I am sure I have in the past but just can’t resist:

“My manner of thinking, so you say, cannot be approved. Do you suppose I care? A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!”.

Marquis de Sade

That’s you to a tee.

A fool may talk, but a wise man speaks. Just a fool Slid.


Meme Guy

Boulder climber
NC
Nov 29, 2014 - 05:46pm PT
Want what you're smoking bro ^^^
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Nov 29, 2014 - 07:22pm PT
^^^^That would be Lower Merced Pass SuperNatural©®

mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Nov 29, 2014 - 08:53pm PT
Dr. Lost has good weed.
And I liked his little screed.
Dope's where you find it.

It's weed here, weed there,
In the lake, & everywhere.
Came out of the sky.

Everyone smokes in hell.
You can tell just by that smell.
Colombian skunk.
--Rad McKuen

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Was it grown in a Communist plot? Were they growing full time?

What would Jimmy Hoffa say? What would he be smokin'?

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Nov 29, 2014 - 09:26pm PT
now you're making sense shang
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2014 - 10:35pm PT
Anyone thinking that meme and sidmo are one in the same? Duh
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Nov 30, 2014 - 09:39am PT
there you go again LICKY - maybe if you stopped obsessing on the supertopo who's who list and WRITE we'd have a book to read . . . and BUY, by the way - why don't you want to cash in your chips?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2014 - 09:34pm PT
Naw sidmo...like you, it has its entertainment factor. You are mine
Meme Guy

Boulder climber
NC
Dec 1, 2014 - 03:45am PT
Licky just took the paranoia route.
Meme Guy

Boulder climber
NC
Dec 1, 2014 - 04:40am PT
Me and Sidmo gonna write a book on how Licky's book is never going to be finished.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 1, 2014 - 08:56am PT
Licky's gonna prove us all wrong and produce a blockbuster.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
Dec 1, 2014 - 10:44am PT

Dec 1, 2014 - 04:40am PT
Me and Sidmo gonna write a book on how Licky's book is never going to be finished.

Great. Now there are two books that will never be published.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 1, 2014 - 03:47pm PT
Well you're easily entertained licky, not surprising - you probably grew up watching the old test patterns on late nite tv - while dreaming about being a writer when you grow up - tooo bad you haven't yet or we'd have a book to read, and BUY$$$$$

It's ok, me and meme will be publishing soon, all about this ridiculous decade of post toasties - tentative working titles:

THREADBARE or DON'T THREAD ON ME
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Dec 1, 2014 - 04:55pm PT
THREADBARE or DON'T THREAD ON ME

That's pretty good sid. Though this is better.


^^^^That would be Lower Merced Pass SuperNatural©®

Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Dec 1, 2014 - 08:02pm PT

It was up at Tioga Pass
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 2, 2014 - 07:18am PT
Lower Merced Pass Lake is a tongue twisting moniker that would probably have Licky's fingers tied in knots by now, if he was really typing. His posts are so short, cryptic and disjointed that I believe he is typographically challenged, but they have meds for that, if he seeks help. I think Obamacare covers it but don't know for sure. That's why serious authors farm out the hard part, the writing itself to those of us who can handle the chore. I offered to help him edit for free, years ago, just to get the thing moving. He thought I was trying to rip off his valuable research, thought I was Chainsaw, thought I was Meme, whatever. Meme had it right the other day:

Meme Guy
Boulder climber
NC
Dec 1, 2014 - 03:45am PT
Licky just took the paranoia route.

Licky poses and insults, while his posts reveal that he is not a natural nor a trained writer. There is nothing wrong with that, as long as he keeps his day job, which he has never revealed despite his alleged openness in this forum. I told him that without the permission of the other co-conspirators that I was not at liberty to divulge details that I know, but offered to share general observations gleaned from first-hand experiences as I lived through the whole thing in Curry Village. For that I received his wrath and condemnation. I tried to find the other fellas, but to no avail. It has never been my intention to write about the plane, despite Licky's delusions. Writing is serious business for me, but not for him. I get paid for this shyt - not much, but paid. I edit for $15 p/hr, write new articles for 10 cents per word, with bonuses, and ghostwrite/tutor for $20 p/hr. Those are low rates, but I get to do what I like. When amateurs like Licky call themselves writers, they are lying until they publish, period. Think about your profession. Do you like seeing others fake it while you don't? If you're a carpenter for example, and get paid $20-30 p/hr or more, how do you like it when an undocumented alien or jerk with no tools snags jobs that you bid on by working for $10? Licky has no respect for the profession of writing, as I've said before, and therefore gets no respect from me. And he wonders why I think he might be a narc. Narcs are jerks and he fits the profile.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Dec 2, 2014 - 02:04pm PT
Why is it in politics, religion {ministers] Catholics ………………….. maybe someone in the family that are the ones that yell the loudest and never gives up on the their convictions about how bad Gays, abortion, prostitutes ………………. And all are going to Hell; are the ones that get caught doing the same things they preach against about.




How many times Sidnarc have you used the name narc and snitch. There were quite few suits in the Valley [you can always tell who is who by what kind of shoes they were $,$$ or$$$$$. I have the feeling I know which ones you had to make deal so you would not go to jail.

Sounds to me reading between the lines that is what you were at the time. MCA, FBI, DEA? Recall you wanted to look while Licky was asleep to make copies on your 16mm camera.

As for Licky taking his time: and you say you have a problem running down your FED friends.

Funning [well not really when you think back was a few posts back about references to some 202 #, I just learned now has me wondering so again more mystery to the book. Worth the wait for the correct information.

You and MeMe are only interested in a couple of pages. That’ providing that both of you can read? Which ones would they be I ask? Not publishing but your interest in the story?

I say you or you’re made up friend start a comedy act:


You should know this guy if you don’t I can provide it for you but he thought he could try it out, make a couple of bucks doing it. They did pay him [ I guess], he was the start for the real comedian that followed. His jokes just really never made it, he did make someone laugh, when I looked over to see who it was, some woman he was with. The crowd like myself was only interested in OJ, He really did not know how to respond. Guess what he was there when it all happened. Sure why not the biggest murder case in CA why not cash in and knows nothing. Oh he believes now that maybe OJ did murder a couple of people.

As for Licky knowing about you:

zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Dec 2, 2014 - 03:27pm PT
Well, sid, I'm disappointed. When I used to work I got paid a hell of a lot more than that. Now I'm doing it for the betterment of humanity and a few wooden nickels (though mfm is the only one who actually sends them to me).

Would you care for some html or recursive functional programming to go with your plane crash?

Debbie paid me handsomely for coaching her through the anthropological and linguistic training involved in bringing this to fruititon.


[Click to View YouTube Video]

Seriously now. When i used to fly in a small plane with my friend Lew, he would say "N" "PAPA" "LIMA" - Why isn't there a word for "N"?

Lew was an upstanding citizen, served and learned to fly in the military, never smuggled drugs, practiced aviation law, but he lost an engine coming into Van Nuys airport and crashed into a home killing himself, but no one in the house. He left a wife and two kids behind. Why someone isn't writing a book about him is a mystery to me.







sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 2, 2014 - 03:42pm PT
Shang, are you like, dyslectic or something? If you're last posts make sense to anyone they need to raise their hand. Swaggart, Bakker, Kailen, what the phuck do they have to do with anything? You have no substance dude

And Zbro, I'm soooo impressed that you made more than me, is your dick bigger too? I thought you guys all retired after the plane, I mean, who's needed to work since '77? Not any C4Bs, right? I mean, if a dweeb from curry can get rich why didn't you geniuses? Debbie Reynolds? huh?
oh and thanx for bettering humanity so - I've noticed how much nicer everyone has been lately, all thanx to you - maybe you could go write bills for congress, since you're such a humani-phuckin-tarian you could bridge the gap between the parties in Washington - i'm so phuckin impressed by you I could fart
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Dec 2, 2014 - 03:49pm PT
Say there say, sid, I'm proud of you working for a living, but shouldn't you be applying yourself to the task at hand rather than trying to bait your superiors on the internet?

Are you an immigrant? Papers please. I would guess that I was paid a lot more than you because folks saw more a lot more value in what I did, than what value they see if what you do. I'm not sure.

Don't mock Debbie. She was paid more than any of us and she could sing and had a congenial disposition. You can't and don't.

Who are these friends who are scatterd like dry leaves? The radio said they were just deportees.



Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Dec 2, 2014 - 04:32pm PT
This thread is so much more readable if you just skip over Skidmo's comments and go straight to zBrown
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Dec 2, 2014 - 04:37pm PT
Like looking into the mirror all you are doing is writing about yourself, looking, searching: problem you have Sid: nothing there. Your mentally handicapped postings has nothing to do with Licky, you just want it to be about you. Even fools can get educated just takes time. Turn away from the mirror.

You will keep responding because that is all you have. Stupidity and fools try so hard to convince others they are not. That what makes them fools.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Dec 2, 2014 - 04:47pm PT
There's a couple of other Shadow's that know too;

Mousie would like this one.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 2, 2014 - 07:28pm PT
wow its a lid
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Dec 2, 2014 - 09:36pm PT
Another Shadow years ago Sickly.

When word first came out about the plane [even though did not need it since there was so much of others: Thai sticks, hash, oils ....... figured sure why not get try or add more tastes to the pallet. Much like wine.

Mountain Room Bar, [ bet you could not recall anyone who worked there] driving getting out of the park since a few of us lived just outside. After polishing off close to a bottle of a good bottle of Canadian whiskey a day helped to make which lane to be in.

Anyway so another fine "The Shadow Knows" asks me if I wanted some.
Well no problem there, told him no hurry.

Of course just said just needed a small bag. you know something that everyone knows looks like this:


Could have been the same day or next day when he brings this ??? gallon garbage bag; about 1/3 full.


What the F%ch, I said how much do I owe you: cost was about the price you would pay to get in a taxi in your neck of the woods, S,F. for one block.
So I doubled it if I recall.

Just some fun memories. Some of the good stories not like yours of sorrow.

You would have to know about a few things in that other picture to understand, fools goes right pass them.

Plus taking a guess since you cleaned the toilets for Curry buses the bag above was probably filed with what turned you on.
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 3, 2014 - 08:06am PT
LICKY, LICKY, LICKY
this IS about Licky, moron. without his failed quest the thread ain't there, and you and I don't enter the fray. everytime you attack me it veers away, but that's not my fault

So Shang, you actually smoked plane weed? I mean, more than the occasional toke or two? One small hit was enough to remind the smoker that it was tainted with petrochemicals, anyone who kept hitting the flaming joints probably has issues like yours - brainrot.
No, I didn’t drink at the MR, preferred the atmospheres of the Ahwahnee and Curry bars, more upscale and refined. Ok, and a shorter walk home and free beers appealed to me as well, but I never scrounged food off trays with an excuse that it was the price to pay to climb every day. The buscleaning job began at 5pm, enabling me to climb every day with dignity. If it turns you on to pretend that I enjoyed smelling human feces then believe that fabrication, but you saying it don't make it true.
You make the thread about me when you criticize me - I keep the focus on Licky while you prefer the distraction of attacking me. Licky gets the subject changed and you look like a cheerleader. Congratulations, moron.
I have no doubt that you are probably a good climber, better than I ever was, but being a reckless thrillseeker doesn't indicate intelligence.
Meanwhile, the ten-year mark on these threads approaches in May. Licky won't beat the clock.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
Dec 3, 2014 - 10:05am PT
First time I've ever seen the Curry bar described as upscale.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Dec 3, 2014 - 11:22am PT
Well apparently nobody else is going to say it, so

lidmo

Now that is good. Funny thing, I found a part of a lid on the sidewalk the other day. They come in plastic pill containers these days. It did not smell like avgas, however. I thought I was onto a real find.



sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 5, 2014 - 12:24am PT
yeah, I just wish there was "mo" in my "lid"

four fingers would be nice, but three will do in the valley
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Dec 5, 2014 - 10:00am PT
Skidmo

At least I can tell by your timing that you lost out: Not all of the bales were soaked. So that tells me you never got past the first page. The stash that I received had none of the fuel. At other times in the valley I, through others smoked it and sure as soon as you lit it would could use as a fire starter.

Anyway had some slides I was going through the other day and someone picked you out. At the garage, Can’t think of the cool black guy’s name [think he was the manager or head of something that gave orders] with a couple of others that I knew and some said that was you or at the time was/were in the background.

Amazing how the years go by and how we look now. I think you brought it up about you would not recognize anyone today
.
Sure looks you have changed a lot.



By the way I was referring to smoking not smelling your secret stash.

sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 6, 2014 - 05:52pm PT
his name was benny, and he was like part albino - he had some condition that made him lose his pigment in splotches, and was my boss - did you know Jennifer? she got me the job, union scale - our shyt wasn't that bad, wet but ok - had to dry the crap out of it but most folks liked it, they did in SF anyway - we swapped it all out for thaisticks
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Dec 6, 2014 - 10:00pm PT
Yes, good old Benny. You would also have know Marcus as well.

But you are getting off the subject. Focus. sTop looking for your reflection.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Dec 6, 2014 - 10:06pm PT
Holy shit!! I saw this thread pop to the front page and I thought another plane went down.

Does anyone have good numbers on the actual THC content of the avgas grass?

Did that guy who murdered his family smoke any of the plane crash weed?

(Ric get on it. I bet you hadn't even thought to ask these questions. Like I've said before, an author's work is never done). The readers? Likewise.

I hate to keep harping on this shit!, but apparently those pilots never heard of Rejex. They might have been with us today.

REJEX WAS NAMED FOR ITS ABILITY TO "REJECT" UV, BUG SPLATS, BIRD POOP, JET EXHAUST AND OTHER COMMON CONTAMINANTS. READ THE CHILLING ACCOUNT OF HOW ONE PILOT CREDITS REJEX FOR REPELLING SOMETHING FAR MORE SERIOUS: ICE!

http://www.corrosionx.com/the-best-wax.html
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Dec 15, 2014 - 04:44pm PT
actually i avoid reflections, curse of aging I suppose - but reflecting, that's different - those were the best of all times and liccky won't never know, cause he don't get it
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Dec 15, 2014 - 07:01pm PT
What a coincidence, I just today got my freedom of information request fulfilled and I now have the original, uneditied tapes from the airplane's black box. Eat your heart out Ric.

This is what they were listening to when the plane actually hit the lack of skids and plunged into the lake. Mindblowing.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Meme Guy

Boulder climber
NC
Dec 27, 2014 - 04:59pm PT
I'm confused
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Dec 27, 2014 - 06:27pm PT
yo tam bien

chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Jan 25, 2015 - 03:32am PT
Wow, I am amazed this thread continues. What really amazes me is that someone would impersonate me. Sldmo or whoever you are, why do you claim to be me? I am the chainsaw and Im very curious why you would claim to be me? Everyone called me a chump for attacking Lickys book back in 2005. Has it become in vogue to criticize him now or are you writing typos? I thought Licky was a federal marshal or FAA investigator. And I didnt want to see our sport trashed in the media since I make a living teaching climbing to kids. People hated me for my troll so why would you want to be me? Perplexed...

chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Jan 25, 2015 - 04:10am PT
I am the chainsaw. Licky uncovered my real identity by looking at my personal info which was visible to all to see, unbeknownst to me. I started using the handle chainsaw back in 1990 when I founded Aardvark Tree Service. The supertaco cheering section hated on me like no other. I just didnt want anybody bringing our sport down that road because I make a living teaching kids climbing and coaching at comps. After twelve nationals I have been run off by as#@&%es. My posts on this thread were used as ammunition by detractors who ran me out of the program I ran for nearly a decade. Why is sldmo, or sidmo or skidlow or whoever impersonating me? If you want to assume someone elses identity, you might want to pick somebody more popular. Most of my posts were removed by Cmac at my request. But some rants persist... Has it become popular to criticize Licky? Or perhaps avgas contains residual crack. Who knows what sldmo been smokin.
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Jan 25, 2015 - 04:22am PT
OMG! Sldmo is not the chainsaw. WTF did he write? I know I have aterrible rep but can this dude make it worse? Dont impersonate me skidbutt.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Jan 25, 2015 - 07:37am PT


John M

climber
Jan 25, 2015 - 08:46am PT
The super taco cheering section hated on me like no other.

too funny. I was around here when you first showed up. You came in talking sh#t. Like you were the emperor of climbing and anyone who disagreed with you was dog sh#t. You got as good as you gave. Man up and admit you dished it pretty good.
Choco

Mountain climber
Jan 25, 2015 - 09:25am PT
First post here and it might as well be in this thread.

I've spent the last three days going through it all. No, I had nothing better to do and work was slow Friday.

 This is an incredibly fascinating story.

 Licky, this can be an amazing book. Some previews, a paragraph, ANYTHING that actually shows progress would be great. I sincerely hope you publish eventually, but if you don't, well, there's nothing anyone can do about it, now can they?

 The stories here from the people that lived it are incredible and were worth sorting through all the garbage to read.

 This thread was much easier to read once I realized that simply skipping over certain posts was the best way to get through it. There's a lot of crap here, but the gems every few (or more) pages are worth it.

 The level of trolling in this thread from certain parties is likely unrivaled in the history of the Internet (or at least since Al Gore invented it). If I were teaching a masterclass in how to be an effective troll, this thread has many textbook examples.

(Choco now slinks back into the shadows)
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Jan 25, 2015 - 10:14am PT
This is an incredibly fascinating story.

Remains to be seen.
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Jan 26, 2015 - 09:32am PT
It will be a very interesting story. Keep plugging away Senor Licky
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jan 26, 2015 - 09:52am PT
First post here and it might as well be in this thread.

I've spent the last three days going through it all. No, I had nothing better to do and work was slow Friday.

This is an incredibly fascinating story.

You're right. It is an incredible story. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like one that will ever be published. At least not by Licky. This thread is approaching the 10 year mark, with no publication date in sight.

The stories are all here. Are the individuals who posted them copyright protected?

I may be out of line (and if so, I apologize in advance), but it seems like a motivated individual could take what's been posted here, do a little backup research and knock out a kickass story in about six months.

It's ridiculous that this project is still in the "research stage".
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jan 26, 2015 - 11:24am PT
! This Thread Belongs to . . . ??

Take YOUR pick of the THE CORE,
Keep the worms for color.

and yes you could get a shiny apple.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2015 - 06:12pm PT
Chainsaw posted comments about it being common knowledge that meth labs were in a small town in the Sierra. All a sudden SuperTopo and I were being blamed for providing the personal information about Chainsaw. If anyone recalls those postings, Chainsaw used his full name in his email address. He invoked the rath of a couple of climbers as well as a contact by the local Sheriff's department. Then Chainsaw copied me on an email from a Federal Prosecutor in San Francisco pointing out that he had no choice but to send Chainsaw's postings to the Sheriff's department.

I called that lawyer just to make sure he understood what it was that I was doing on ST. His response was, "I've been following this thread for quite some time. You see, I am an avid climber so SuperTopo is my hang out".

Chainsaw bit in the ass by his own teeth. Jeebus, you can't make this stuff up. This event will definately find its way into the book if for no other reason than to give everyone a moment of levity.

LOL...me a Federal Agent, ya gotta love the paranoia. It strikes deep...
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Jan 26, 2015 - 06:41pm PT
So roc, chainsaw, hacksaw, and that other guy sidmo are not all the same person?

I meant to say ric.

Should I go ahead and start the 2015 Mex-meth-drone smuggling crash book/novella without you?


Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2015 - 08:28pm PT
Sounds like a plan z. You obviously have a grasp on the mini scule
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Jan 26, 2015 - 08:35pm PT
Where's Sidious in all of this? Did he finally get banned?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2015 - 09:00pm PT
I hope not, he brings to the story a level of ludicrousness. He is so hell bent on telling his story that he finds it important to run over anyone that might suggest he is incorrect or not present.
WBraun

climber
Jan 26, 2015 - 09:05pm PT
Chainsaw and Skidmo

hahahaha what a crew ......
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jan 28, 2015 - 12:14am PT
Number of f*#ks given...meh
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
Jan 28, 2015 - 07:35pm PT
Licky. Hurry up, man.

I'm 66. Clock's tickin'

I just checked the actuarials. I'm good for something between 69.9 and 87.2.

I'm kinda hoping I get the whole story from you and not the shade of the Pilot.

Even if I make it to the upper end of the scale I'm not sure I can get the caregiver to read it to me.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Feb 1, 2015 - 10:10am PT
mini you say? 7 pounds of marijuana may seem small, 7 pounds of BHO that's a whole 'nother story.



How about the top ten questions you plan to answer in your book as a teaser. I have my ten, but it is afterall your book.


Weigh this while you're working on the book, ric.


sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 5, 2015 - 11:11am PT
Didja really think I was impersonating you chainsaw? REALLY????????

Look C-Saw, that was a joke, based on the history of:
A/ Licky accusing me of being you (Chainsaw)
B/ Me denying it to no avail
C/ Me employing sarcasm to insult Licky, who is stupid enough to confuse our identities

Not to worry, chainsaw, I neither aspire to be you, or to be associated with you, nor anyone else here - nothing personal, I wouldn't know any of you if you walked in the room - licky is a phony poser trying to use you all to his advantage - as for me wanting MY story in the book, licky kids himself- I think we'll all settle for ANY story - if he is scribe enough to write it - man up and publish already, licky, you moron
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2015 - 08:27pm PT
I'm still looking forward to meeting you sidmo and sharing a cup of joe or a beer. Come on, what do you have to loose? You have plenty of stories
sidmo

Sport climber
general delivery
Feb 12, 2015 - 09:27am PT
Licky, you are stuck singing the same old song - no one wants to meet you unless you prove that you're actually a writer working on a book about the plane, and stop your bi-polar responses alternating between requests for coffee and wholesale denunciations of anyone critical of your process (if not writing a book could be considered a process - I think you need progress to form a process, but then I'm not a wannabe amateur writer posing as a soon-to-be-published historian)

Post a chapter if you want to discredit me - I don't think you have one
Barefoot

climber
Oakland, CA
Feb 12, 2015 - 04:23pm PT
Hi all,

I am posting here for much the same reason Rick started this thread in the first place.

My name is Julia DeWitt. I am public radio producer and I've gotten interested in the story of the 1977 plane crash. My colleague and I are looking for climbers that went up to the lake in the weeks following the crash that are willing to speak with us.

Let me give you a little background about the show so you have a better sense of what we're doing. The show is called Snap Judgment. It's an NPR show produced in the Bay Area, but distributed nationally to over 300 stations. We reach about a million people every a week. We are a non-fiction storytelling show that focuses on first-person accounts of stories. We are not investigative journalists. We are just interested in the tale of the lake. If you agree to speak with me I can grant you any level of anonymity you like. But this is for the radio, so I'm hoping to find people that are willing to talk on tape.

I spoke to Rick and he suggested I post on this thread. (I do so with his blessing.) Please get in touch if you have any further questions or have a story from back in '77 that you are willing to share.

Thanks everyone,

Julia DeWitt
julia@snapjudgment.org
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 12, 2015 - 04:36pm PT
Julia, be careful what you wish for. ;-)
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Feb 12, 2015 - 05:02pm PT
Can anyone get this guy a 'C' harmonica?

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 3, 2005 - 02:22am PT

If I could figure out how to post photos to this board I'd start showing some of the stuff that is public domain. Only problem...I can't see a simple click this button to load an image. If someone can help...please.

I would like to suggest opening a reply window and then clicking the photo button.

Alternatively, send them to me and I will post them for you.


//
I read recently about a guy who spent 8 years researching his book, so don't give up the ghost, Ric.//



Anyway, just to pass the time, which seems to be slip-sliding away,

suppose "... it still leaves 1500 pounds of the six ton cargo unaccounted for..."

suppose further that each mule carried 25 pounds per trip

then that amounts to about 60 mule trips down the hill, right?

YMMV and caveat emptor!




Didn't the plane really crash in December of 1976?

Did they take photos when they pulled the plane out of the lake (like they did with the military plane they pulled out of Otay Lake)?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 13, 2015 - 03:36pm PT
Yes Z, they did take photos of the plane when it was hauled out. The company that had the salvage contract took this one


The plane crashed on December 9, 1976. When I first posted I was hoping someone would step forward and correct me when I posted it as 1977. The wing was found first found by Ron Lykins on January 29, 1977
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Feb 13, 2015 - 04:25pm PT
WELL I am hear [sic] to tellya, that plane crashed in December, 1976. Is there any kind of a prize? Why hear? I was not actually on site.


How about an extra large "dime" bag.


I knew about Mr. Lykins also, but I was waiting for your nemesis, the loquacious ... uh ... I can't summon up the name ... satchmo? to correct the records.




Mind you, this was about a bad plane design (my wife's father flew in them) and the war, no drugs were involved, but the plane came up remarkably in tact after 65 years. BTW, it went in with the running gear up and the flaps fully deployed and both occupants of the plane survived the crash.







Sula

Trad climber
Pennsylvania
Feb 13, 2015 - 04:47pm PT
I haven't yet had time to read this entire thread, so there's a good chance this has already been posted. But I thought after looking at a photo of the mangled wreckage, it might be interesting to see a photo of the aircraft as it looked before it crashed.

Here it is. About the only thing that clearly connects the two photos is the right wingtip: blue with a red stripe.

The plane was indeed a Howard 500, not a Lockheed PV-1 (aka Ventura) or a Lockheed Lodestar, as has frequently been reported. The Howard 500 was derived from these models and certainly resembles them, but actually had little directly in common with them (Googling says outer wingtips only). It had bigger engines, was faster, and could certainly haul more (especially when slavish adherence to rules and regulations was not a priority).
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Feb 13, 2015 - 04:54pm PT
I don't think that even I have read this whole thread (some parts you just have to skim), but I thought it would be interesing to see what the operators looked like before the crash. So Here it is.


Alternatively, try

Google




Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 13, 2015 - 05:01pm PT
Sula, I have not only the history of the aircraft from the FAA from its first build to its final before it crashed, but I have images of the plane when owned by its different owners. I have traced the wing tips, landing gear, and engines to a single PV-1 Ventura that was owned by the Royal Canadian Air Force during WWII. Here is is getting refueled as a PV-1 Ventura after the war when it was converted to an air maping aircraft in Canada


An interesting point. After the FAA sent me the history of ownership, I waited two years and then submitted a FOIA request to the FAA for all files, photos, sketches, and field notes for said aircraft. The response was, "sorry, but we cannot find any files on this aircraft." No? Its because they sent me the originals! Another case of the Feds screwing the pooch in this case

Of course this is of little interest to guys like sidmo.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Feb 14, 2015 - 08:16am PT
^Hopefull they were signed. At some point after the book becomes famous, you can sell them on The PawnStarz.

I'm gonna give you a little more of that "dime" bag just for persistence in dealing with the govt bureaucracy all this time. I don't know if they will allow it for sale on the TV show.

Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 14, 2015 - 07:05pm PT
Z, along that note, using the FOIA request I traveled to the Yosemite Archive Department. It was a warehouse within a warehouse. Secret key codes, a handler that insisted we wear white gloves to handle the thousands of documents that we requested. I was told I could not photocopy any pages that I wanted, but it was ok for me to photograph them (go figure). We came across many "final reports", but none of the supporting reports or notes. When asked where those were, we were met with, "Well, I have no idea". Stonewall or ineptness? Take your pick. Near the end of the day the office manager, our handler mentioned that she thought they might have piece of the plane on a shelf and would we like to see it. But of course! There it was, 2'x3' twisted blue aluminum with primer green on the other side. "Can I take a photo of it"? No, sorry.

These people live in their own very little world and have rules that they have created. We were told that no videos could be made in the Park that might give a negative image of the US Park Service.

These are the kind of road blocks that have been in place since I started my research.
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Feb 15, 2015 - 12:37am PT
Thank you for those photos. Will be an interesting book as Ive said before.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Feb 15, 2015 - 01:04pm PT
Hi Ric:

Feel free to call me zb and stay focused on your book, though I enjoy hearing about it as it's being constructed.

Regarding those calculations I did above, if the numnbers were reversed as some apparently knowledgeable folks assert (i.e. govt 1500 and the rest to the 'free market') then thats a lot more trips down the hill.

Similarly, the use of real 'govt' mules could distort the calculations also.




Sula

Trad climber
Pennsylvania
Feb 15, 2015 - 03:16pm PT
Licky posted:
The wing was found first found by Ron Lykins on January 29, 1977

So the crash was the result of an in-flight structural failure (left wing separated)? Was the cause of this ever determined?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 15, 2015 - 03:20pm PT
The NTSB investigation was cursory, at best. They were too busy stuffing
their pockets, too.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Feb 15, 2015 - 03:26pm PT

For all you smuggling aficionados out there. The 60 Minutes Coronado Company segment is now posted on Youtube in better quality than I've seen before.

It was a much larger operation and as far as I can tell did not have any long term positive effect on the world, though it has provided George Clooney with the fodder for a new film he is working on (working title "American High"?).

Mike Wallace understates the gross revenues of the operation by about 50% (200 million is likely). I will also fault his usage of the term "mob". There is no reasonable interpretation of the Coronado Co. as a mob, though the people they dealt with in Baja would certainly qualify in classic American criminal parlance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K18hJj-Xja8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnqW4GPT4ZQ
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Feb 15, 2015 - 03:51pm PT
Mr. Lykins has stated that he and friends found the wing in Illilouette Valley, reported it to the park service and the PS went up in helicopters and found the rest of the plane in LMPL.


When are you dating the crackdown and trail side arrest of two well known climbers with full packs who were not convicted due to an illegal search?

And just how much did those packs weigh? Anyone.



Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Feb 15, 2015 - 06:26pm PT
Who was the ex Marine that got busted at Happy Isles on his way out the week before Easter? I heard his pack straps broke so they just used cord to wrap the 100lb pack to his body.

Well?
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Feb 15, 2015 - 07:15pm PT
^Dates of busts and dismissals.

I'd be really surprised if Ric doesn't have that info. I've seen it and I haven't spent that much time poking around. I'll try to recall where it was that I saw it. It might even be in this thread.
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Feb 15, 2015 - 07:34pm PT
I also heard about the unfortunate who arrived after the gold rush when the lake was on lockdown by LEO. The first-hand story I heard was that the would-be-scavengers ended up looting the LEO camp and walked off with their bacon!
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Feb 15, 2015 - 07:35pm PT
Ric: Judge Pitts died July 31, 2014. Did you ever interview him?







Wer hat das schwarze Buch? Herr Dorn?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2015 - 08:28pm PT
Jack Dorn had one of three black books. The Feds only knew about one. I know the location of the two others and have seen one of them. Dorn's book was eventually delivered to the DEA office in Reno. Lee Shackleton discussed at great length the book and what they went through to get it to the DEA.

I did interview Judge Pitts. In 2008 I was asked to present to the Yosemite Association the results of my research. It was held at Yosemite in the theater with about 250 employees of Yosemite. Shackleton and Pitts were in the front row, dead center. Vern Clevenger was sitting right behind them with a great big smile on his face. It was him and a friend that was busted and then released by Pitts for illegal search.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2015 - 08:39pm PT
I don't have that date. I interviewed Vern and Bill and neither could give me a date. If you have something I'm all ears
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2015 - 08:55pm PT
I don't have official confirmation of the date that Bill & Vern got popped on the trail, but what I've been able to find is April 13, 1977.

As for the discovery of the wing. I have a copy of the action report that was filed when Ron Lykins came in. Now if there are any stories of discovering the plane and its load prior to January 29th, it has not been provided to me by anyone. Please remember, I need to be able to substantiate these stories with at least three people or an offical document.

I have heard about Nadim Melkonian, but no one seems to be very specific about the story. I have only one source which I believe is very credible, but I need more than just one.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 15, 2015 - 09:50pm PT
Yes, Vern and a guy named I'll use the name Bill (who wants to remain unknown) were the only two that were busted for bringing down any dope. I have interviewed Vern and Bill. Vern is totally open to the conversation. Judge Pitts confirmed the event.

So I say to you, if you have any further information or can provide dates and times and names, please do so.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Feb 16, 2015 - 07:26am PT
Well it was a sunnny day and they did not arrest the mule. Said mule and affiliated chainsaws were eventually returned to their rightful homes though.

It's possible that Judge Pitts himself asked the question, "Did you read him his rights?" and responded "Dismissed" when he got the answer.

I am a little concerned because I thought I saw some dates associated with this momentous event somewhere. I'll keep looking. Good thing I'm not writing a book.

The Jack Dorn story is the most interesting thing I've seen in this area in some time. May not be the redeeming social value sought in yesteryear, but scandal is always interesting.

Take, for example, the decomissioning of the San Onofre nuclear power plant. Approximately 75% of the 4.4 billion cost is being passed on to ratepayers.

Good thing that wing didn't fall off near here.


Reilly is right (that dude knows his aviation) the great smugglers got their payloads out of the cross border vessels and onto the highways and byways as soon as possible.

Woodie Guthrie and the Grateful Dead even did a song about it. Goin' down the road feeling bad.

"Going where the water tastes like wine"

More fodder for the trivia cannon.

The Judge’s "bible" is the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR),
which lists a substantial number of the criminal offenses for National
Parks. There is one page devoted entirely to Yosemite. For example,
did you know it is illegal to fish from horseback in Yosemite National Park?

Notice that it does not discuss mules.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Feb 16, 2015 - 05:06pm PT
^Could very well be tWarbler. Next time Ric goes off interviewing the judiciary, we need to prime him with the questions we want answered.

The contents of the three black books is what interests me the most from the set of recent revelations, that and the untimely, if not downright suspicious, demise of Mr. Dorn.

Also, I really do not know how much weight a fully laden mule can carry, but I'd like to know how much of it's burden made it into the evidence locker (no that one) and where it went thereafter.


Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Feb 16, 2015 - 05:30pm PT
^^^ looks more like a burro.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Feb 16, 2015 - 09:10pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Barefoot

climber
Oakland, CA
Feb 17, 2015 - 10:51am PT
Hi folks,

I posted late last week in the hopes that someone might tell their tale for a radio story I'm working on. We're not the news. We're taking a purely entertainment angle. Let me know if you'd like some more information.

Best,

Julia DeWitt
Producer
NPR-Snap Judgment
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 17, 2015 - 01:42pm PT
Julia, paranoia runs deep, into their hearts it has crept.
They don't believe in the statute of limitations, neither.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Feb 17, 2015 - 02:05pm PT
^I think it's more a lack of interest. Only people with too much time on their hands spend time on this type of thing.

One thing though, you do find out a lot of stuff you never would have. I am amazed at the number of plane crashes there have been and what the difference between a mule and a burro is.

Visit the American Donkey & Mule Society (ADMS) page, but be aware that it is under modification.












zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Feb 20, 2015 - 09:58am PT
Can't always get what you want.

Can't always believe what you hear and/or read.

The message was reinforced recently. There's a lot of "folklore" surrounding this epoch in U.S. history.

Some ouf it may derive from the minions of Uncle Sam himself.


Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2015 - 12:27am PT
They come and they go...
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Feb 22, 2015 - 06:39am PT
The smallest big man that told stories to us young pups living in the dirty old camp four
That is before the re configuration that started with the moving of the rescue site in (?)'79.
Or '80? Well when ever the camp4 living had been the same for forty years or so.and seniority was the way the best, most private sites were occupied.

The crash changed all that. That was how we were told it. The best sites, the longest held by the biggest DOGZ fell into division and disused corners of camp four reappeared. By '83 the park service started changing things
The whole campsite went through like three different configurations.
Animals and the food they scavenged had been attracting unwanted bear visits for along time
But the sudden more empty than full camp'78 and for the next year or so made the Bears more bold

The story went that some of the last big stash of that stuff got bagged in a dirty bag that some bear made off with some of it.

Said hippie to hippie wanna bees it went down hill inthe second year
He said it was skunks that could not find salamanders and toads or frogs to eat that started acting bad climbing for food bags scratching in the corners of tent and tent sites for scraps and even cardboard. That is what hippie had buried his stash in. The little buggers of the valley floor ate and fouled beyond smoking or selling the last quater pound?
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Feb 22, 2015 - 07:45am PT
My mind is very mushy about this stuff!

I have so hoped that some of my lightweight pals would turn up 35 years

Name removed He should show up just for my calling him a lightweight!

Others were just that but it would be wrong as that name bomb, above, to mention

Any one on this thread!! Remember where we are

Bag💪ger . . . .? Get in touch!!



Edited! To protect the very guilty (of a mis-spent? 'Yutha')

Where ho where has my little dog gone? (Singing) FA fa fa lala! lala! La la
WBraun

climber
Feb 22, 2015 - 07:55am PT
Huh? What? When? Where? Drool ....

Good job men and women of history.

What me worry ...... :-)
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Feb 22, 2015 - 09:33am PT
The hardcore stuff with gunz and all here: The Mammoth Book of Drug Barons

Nineteen thrilling stories from the murky world of major international drug dealing, detailing the lavish lifestyles of larger-than-life characters like Curtis Warren, Howard Marks, Pablo Escobar, George Jung, and many others: from the jungles of South America to the pot farms of Canada; from China, Thailand, and Afghanistan to Spain, London and Liverpool.


Idle speculation. Had the Brotherhood of Eternal Love and the Coronado Company merged could they have become a billion dollar outfit?

The Internal Revenue Service and the California Franchise Tax Board have assessed the Brotherhood of Eternal Love corporation for over $70 million in back taxes. The Brotherhood according to the IRS, must have made something over $200 million in its illicit operations.

A total of six hashish oil laboratories were seized, along with over 30 gallons of hashish oil and approximately 6,000 pounds of solid hashish. Of these six laboratories, four were being operated within the United States, three of which were in California and one in Hawaii. Two others were being operated within foreign countries; one in Costa Rica, and one in Afghanistan.



Thai Stick: Surfers, Scammers, and the Untold Story of the Marijuana Trade



Coronado Co. 60 Minutes video upstream.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Feb 22, 2015 - 10:35am PT
God lord I miss Thai sticks. Summer of '77 we had an ounce of Thai sticks and left 'em on the roof of the car in the Glacier Point parking spot.

That was a difficult time.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Feb 22, 2015 - 12:25pm PT
Here's one you can probably empathize with Ric.

Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2015 - 01:48pm PT
Yep Z, looks and sounds very familiar
WBraun

climber
Feb 22, 2015 - 02:11pm PT
I wonder if Dill would put me back on?

Dill has no say.

The Sar site in Camp 4 is run by LEO ......
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2015 - 06:00pm PT
In 2010 a book was published titled "It Happened In Yosemite Natinal Park" written by Ray Jones and Joe Lubow. Jones out of Pebble Beach and Lubow out of Santa Cruz. This is the kind of junk that is being published and this is why I am working on the truth. Here are a few of their talking points:

Each bale was 140 pounds

The name of the plane was "Lodestar Lightning"

The plane was a Lockheed PV-1 Ventura

The plane had been "refurbished" with two jets that totaled 5,000 additional horsepower

With the jets mounted, it could now fly 2,200 miles on a single tank of fuel

The prop engines were referred to as "aging"

One of the engines "fell off" and the rest of the plane followed

The lake was at 9,000 feet in altitude

Divers (Butch Farabee) were used to search the lake and the plane, but no bodies were found

A recovery operation was put in place, but called off due to a February blizzard

To stop those that were stealing the dope, US Customs Agents were parachuted in to put a stop. Two didn't get away and were arrested.

Not until the salvage operation was it discovered that one of the bodies surfaced

A lawyer in Santa Barbara was presented with the $20K in clean up costs (actually it was the pilot, Glisky who's wife Pam that was presented with the bill and she beat it)
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Feb 23, 2015 - 07:28pm PT
Naked Lunch?

[Click to View YouTube Video]



Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2015 - 08:01pm PT
It was not a Ventura. Pretty much all of those points that I posted were totally incorrect.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Mar 30, 2015 - 06:28am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video] I keep finding funny cultural links,all the bands of this ilk, would be playin' the smuggling songs, The song By Little Feat
[Click to View YouTube Video]
WBraun

climber
Mar 30, 2015 - 08:35am PT
The original very first weed recovered and carried out of the lake down to the Valley that winter was Thai sticks .......

ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Apr 7, 2015 - 05:15pm PT
In other news ...
Boa Vista, April 7th, 2015. (venezuelanalysis.com)- A wrecked plane, discovered on 2 April in a Western region of Venezuela, was carrying nearly a ton of cocaine and was registered with the official fleet of Mexico’s Attorney General’s Office.

Three bodies and 999 kilos of cocaine were found in the Cessna Conquest 441, which crashed on Thursday.

The remains of Norberto Filemon Miranda Perez and Francisco Javier Engombia Guadarrama were confirmed by the Commanding General of Venezuela’s Armed Forces on Saturday.

Miranda Perez, believed to be the pilot, was a regional director of the General Prosecutor’s Aerial Services, a branch of the justice department responsible for investigating federal and state crimes. He held office during the presidency of Felipe Calderon.

The third individual has not yet been identified, though documents naming a Bernardo Lisey Valdez were also found in the wreck.

Built in 1981 in the United States, the aircraft belonged to the Colombian firm Aerotaxi Calamar in the late 1990s, until it passed into Mexican ownership under unknown circumstances, eventually appearing as part of the Attorney General fleet in 2000 under the code XB-KGS.

No records indicating the Cessna’s transfer to private hands have been located, though a photo on jetphoto.com shows what may be the same aircraft in the Benito Juarez airport of Mexico City in 2007, with a new code – indicating new ownership.

According to Venezuelan authorities, the plane may have been downed by military efforts. Information was recorded of a bullet impacting an aircraft of similar characteristics that day, in the nearby region of Apure.

Mexico’s Foreign Ministry released a statement yesterday indicating the government’s intent to collaborate with Venezuelan authorities to uncover the details of the crash.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Apr 7, 2015 - 06:25pm PT
This story was interesting, even fascinating, forty years ago. It's continued prominence shows the paucity of of anything really notable happening in the climbing community aside from, well......climbing.

ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Apr 7, 2015 - 07:14pm PT
Hello? Are we frozen here yet? Many personal attacks from about two, upthread. Just wondering.

Edit-Continued historical content would be an asset though and worth keeping on.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Apr 7, 2015 - 09:57pm PT
Not frozen yet, but I think this fits in with what Chris was talking about. While I did like the thread, ever since Sidmo started his rant a couple years ago it went straight to garbage.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 7, 2015 - 10:29pm PT
How could anybody take Sidmo's stuff personally?
Unless you're given to kicking puppies.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Apr 8, 2015 - 01:35am PT
Any chance of simply freezing Sidmoe out of the thread? He'd have nothing to do here, and likely leave.
AE

climber
Boulder, CO
Apr 9, 2015 - 01:07pm PT
It's interesting to read the many comments at sidmo, calling him a narcissist, when the actual fact is Licky clearly is the disordered one here.

Narcissistic personality disorder must meet five or more of the following symptoms (some mods here):
Expects to be recognized as superior and special, without superior accomplishments
Sets unrealistic goals for himself
Is preoccupied with thoughts and fantasies of great success, intelligence
Expects constant attention, admiration and positive reinforcement from others
Requires excessive admiration
Believes others envy him
Has a strong sense of entitlement, unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his expectations
Lacks empathy
Is arrogant, haughty
Has unrealistic expectations of special treatment
Takes advantage of others to achieve his own ends
Vulnerable to the slightest criticism.

I might suggest poor sidmo had an NPD parent, as co-dependency can exist in a reactive-enabling cycle with other 'narcissists' later in life; sidmo trapped in a cycle and role of enabler, fighting but never breaking free. Laugh all you want, but Licky is the sick one here; the rest of you are all "enablers", even when you write negatively, because to a narcissist even that is satisfying the need for attention.
See you all again in another 10 years.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Apr 9, 2015 - 03:28pm PT
AE, Post # 1639
Jul 10, 2013 - 03:24pm PT
BLUEBLOCR
If you are too disinterested to read 7 years of pointless meandering posts that have to date revealed nothing, what's wrong with you?

Seriously, without at least a quick perusal of the entries made by key figures in the saga, you will either miss the humor here, or else be led down a dark and winding path by Mr. Licky, the OP who promised great literary and journalistic revelations, only to wind up spewing rants and conspiracy theories ad nauseum.

As JL himself noted, noone from that era has ever offered anything new or noteworthy, having either died or stopped giving a crap about another tiny footnote in the drug-smuggling history of the '70s.
Whatever you do, don't engage L; you'll only wake him up and encourage him to keep phishin'.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Apr 9, 2015 - 03:38pm PT
This thread sucks? blows? rocks?
-Satchmo

[Click to View YouTube Video]

BTW in the browser wars I'm constantly changing sides. Chrome is currently kicking the ass of Firefox and I.E.
Psilocyborg

climber
Apr 9, 2015 - 03:46pm PT
Airplane....boooooring. Industrial LSD laboratory in an abandon missle silo in kansas. Booya! Now that is fun stuff

http://thislandpress.com/gordon-todd-skinner/
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Apr 9, 2015 - 06:45pm PT
^Rumored to be an associate of Pickard who was rumored to be an associate of the O.C. Brotherhood.
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Apr 9, 2015 - 07:48pm PT
Linda Ronstadt and Governor Brown dined together in the Ahwahnee in 1977, back when I was a bus person there. Unfortunately, I was oblivious to them when they came in when I was working Eva's station. Another Jerry worked there then who knew about the wreck a little, I understand. I passed Bob Dylan in the parking lot in 1976 new the valet; he was trying to disguise himself with sunglasses, a hat and chewing gum, but it didn't fool me. Nonetheless, I just let him pass by anonymously (a friend to a friend).

[edit] not sure if Dylan stayed at the Ahwahnee in July or August. No frisbee. He emerged from a motorhome that was very illegally parked just before the valet area and walked toward the shuttle bus stop, where I passed him. In 1972 in Oakland at the "wake of the flood" tour, a lone Winnebago was parked before the concerts in the northwest parking lot of the Colosseum all by itself. We spied it and considered approaching it. Glad we didn't, as I figure Dylan was in there; but, I'll never know for sure.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Apr 9, 2015 - 07:57pm PT
^Just outa curiosity I spose, what month was Bob Dylan in Yosemite? He doesn't even climb does he? Did he have a frisbee with him?

Ament, where are you?


Linda-wise, here's my favorite. Linda and The Stoned Ponys played at UCI, (where I had the keys to the kingdom and thus access to backstage). Apparently, some folks never get off the stone, though I think Jackson actually did later.







The drug chronicles, while interesting, are not all that great in the end.



[Click to View YouTube Video]

[Click to View YouTube Video]



rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Apr 9, 2015 - 08:39pm PT
zBrown...you sure that wasn't Mister Rodgers doing Linda ...?
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Apr 9, 2015 - 08:48pm PT
It was before iPhones and stuff, so I can't be sure but backstage I thought I heard her say "roger and out".

was it

Jolly
Bannister
Federer
Miller
Fry
Waters
Moore

Beats the shit!! outa me.



Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 21, 2015 - 11:16pm PT
Well ladies and a "few" gentlemen, it’s been a full ten years since I posted this thread. I have learned so much about the event that took place at Lower Merced Pass Lake. In the beginning Pam Glisky and I had no knowledge of what went on in Yosemite other than the Park Service was trying to hit her up for the cleanup operation which she finally beat. We knew nothing of climbers making their way up to the lake and sneaking off with tons of Mexican dope. The climbers and Park employees that have contacted me with their stories have been golden. So have been those that wanted to tell the stories of others as if they were theirs.

I have had a couple of unnamed sources that have provided guidance regarding who was really at the lake and those who just let it be assumed that they were there. As I said in the beginning of this thread, I am not out to "out" anyone and I stick with that premise.

The story has taken me and a couple of private investigators to some very interesting places that we had not counted on. The reason for the slowness of this book is because we think we may have found a Federal connection with the plane crash. With that said, things tend to grind to slow motion as every step is analyzed and determined for the validity of the information.

The money for the purchase of the aircraft has political connections that at the time might have put the White House into deep do do. This is still being researched, but we have confidence in our sources.

As I have said before, I don’t have any time limits for this book. I want to get the information straight, accurate, and without refute. Anyone can write a novel based on a few facts, but this is not what I’m doing. With that said, I continue to move forward. I have after 13 years moved on to a new job within the same arena that I have been in. This job takes up a huge amount of my time leaving me with the weekends to perform research and writing.

I thank those that have provided support over the years as they all seem to understand what it is that I am trying to accomplish. The story is not over and the fat lady has not sung.
AusRod

Social climber
Gunning
Apr 22, 2015 - 02:22am PT
Hehe Licky is all at sea. If he posts rude nonsense replies under other avatars, as he's done for ten years, his thread gets locked. Love it! Where to now I wonder? The book?
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Apr 22, 2015 - 07:54am PT
This ain't twitter you know, this is America. Land of the free. Don't tread on me.

Twitter threatens abusive trolls with account lockdown
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2405167/twitter-threatens-abusive-trolls-with-account-lockdown


Looking on the bright side, Ric maybe running up against a possible Guinness award. The dark side. Break on through to it.


cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Apr 22, 2015 - 10:36am PT
Keep it up! Show all these jealous fools.
Psilocyborg

climber
Apr 22, 2015 - 04:20pm PT
So what you are saying Rick is that the plane was enroute to an illuminati party?
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Apr 22, 2015 - 05:32pm PT
Has anyone actually attended a seance?

Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Apr 22, 2015 - 07:39pm PT
The reason for the slowness of this book is because we think we may have found a Federal connection with the plane crash.

Was the crash some sort of set-up for unsuspecting scavengers who could be easily followed to trace where they went and who they made contact with? Did anyone actually die in the crash?
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Apr 22, 2015 - 07:41pm PT
^You need to attend the seance, obviously.

Remember when Houdini made the elephant disappear? Well after nearly 100 years there's still no trace.

Interestingly enough it occurred at the Hippodrome.


Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Apr 22, 2015 - 10:01pm PT
Many great books took decades to write. Don't give up now. You might even get Oliver Stone interested some day.
WBraun

climber
Apr 22, 2015 - 10:04pm PT
Everyone knows it was Oli North type sh!t behind it ...
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Apr 23, 2015 - 12:35am PT
From a page on writer's block.


Margaret Atwood has written dozens of books.

How many books have you written, Licky?

(No, I haven't written any either But then I didn't spend the last 10 years pretending to be writing one either.)
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 23, 2015 - 05:36am PT
This is probably not the right way to go.Maybe try beating a carrot with a Thai stick?

If that doesn't work, smoke the stick and eat the carrot.
Tobia

Social climber
Denial
Apr 23, 2015 - 08:11pm PT
i've been writing a book for years and haven't finished page one yet.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Apr 27, 2015 - 08:37pm PT
non-white punks on dope
intimidating vibe?
sheeit!

(Reuters) World | Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:03pm EDT - Nine drug traffickers were being held in isolation cells at an Indonesian maximum security prison awaiting execution by firing squad, after Indonesian authorities notified them they had no hope of reprieve.

Security at the prison was heightened and religious counselors, doctors and the firing squad were alerted to start final preparations for the execution of the four Nigerians, two Australians, an Indonesian, a Brazilian and a Filipina.

Ambulances with coffins inside arrived at the Nusakambangan prison island in central Java, where the nine are expected to be executed as early as Tuesday night.





Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 27, 2015 - 08:44pm PT
The revolution will not be televised.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Apr 27, 2015 - 08:54pm PT
Anyway, had folks just heeded the words of

Nancy "she don't speak to servants" Reagun [Yeah, her Secret Service agent actually said that to a flight attendant I happen to know, kind of her take on saying no, no?]

and just said no

there wouldn't have been 2375 posts on the ST and countless hours of time wasted on such an irrelevant enterprise.

Most times, drugs don't kill people, drug users do.

yosemitemtb

Social climber
Mariposa
Apr 28, 2015 - 04:18am PT
I can't believe this thread keeps crawling along. I really don't have anything to contribute since I came to Yosemite about 10 years too late for this fun and games, but I do have a pic of the plane that crashed at Badger Pass on July 4th, 1978.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Apr 28, 2015 - 06:31am PT
As Nancy Reagun used to say "every litter bit counts".

The only safe conclusion to be drawn from this is that Bush was not a servant of the Reagunz.


On the Indonesian front:

Despite sustained appeals from the international community, rock bands and global leaders, Indonesian President Joko Widodo, known as Jokowi, steadfastly refused to grant clemency to anyone convicted of a narcotics-related offense.
...
After months of intense lobbying and last ditch legal appeals, the families of those on death row said their final good-byes on Tuesday.
...
But in Indonesia, where many support the use of capital punishment, political analyst Yohanes Sulaiman says the executions will likely boost the president’s popularity.
...
A lawyer for the Bali nine pair has told of how the judges initially agreed to accept bribes of more than $100,000 for a lenient sentence.

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Apr 28, 2015 - 08:10am PT
Call the Indonesian Consulate at (202) 775-5200 and let them know you are boycotting Bali.

Corruption is behind these executions. The Indonesian officials know that by carrying out these executions they will be more likely to extort bribes from future suspects.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
Apr 29, 2015 - 07:05am PT
Meanwhile, U.S. Supreme Court is taking up death penalty again. Last time.

Justice Clarence Thomas agreed with the outcome but not the reasoning, instead determining that a method of execution is only unconstitutional “if it is deliberately designed to inflict pain.”


Indonesia Executes 8, Including 7 Foreigners, Convicted on Drug Charges

But the execution of a ninth convict, scheduled to happen at the same time, was unexpectedly postponed at nearly the last minute, according to the Indonesian attorney general’s office.


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/29/world/asia/indonesia-execution.html?_r=0

A Brazilian member of the infamous Bali Nine shot by firing squad on Tuesday was a paranoid schizophrenic so confused he didn’t realise he was about to be executed until moments before his death.

Rodrigo Gularte, 42, asked guards "Am I being executed?” as he was being chained up, ready to be transported to the jungle clearing on Death Island where he and seven other death row inmates were executed by the Indonesian authorities.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/bali-nine-am-being-executed-5609645
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 8, 2015 - 06:06pm PT
During the winter of 1976/77, is there anyone that thinks it might have been possible for a couple of guys to have made it up to the lake on snowmobiles?
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 8, 2015 - 06:33pm PT
Well Timid, Walter Cronkite was there and here's the way it was according to Walter.

Sula

Trad climber
Pennsylvania
Jun 8, 2015 - 07:03pm PT
Licky asked:
is there anyone that thinks it might have been possible for a couple of guys to have made it up to the lake on snowmobiles?
This site gives various weather info by month for Yosemite back to 1905. Monthly precip totals (in inches) were:
Dec 1976 - 0.10
Jan 1977 - 2.00
Feb 1977 - 1.87
Mar 1977 - 1.85
Apr 1977 - 0.18

This implies a poor snow year, with very tough sledding.

Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Jun 8, 2015 - 08:23pm PT
The same folks that got up there on a snowmobile are likely the same people who crossed over to Mammoth from Clover Meadow in a Jeep. Bigfoot was there, too; saw him plain as day. Bone dry all winter at the Illilouette Creek crossing.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 8, 2015 - 08:57pm PT
Are you sayin' it wasn't a plane crash after all?

Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Aug 15, 2015 - 02:30pm PT

Hi folks,

I posted late last week in the hopes that someone might tell their tale for a radio story I'm working on. We're not the news. We're taking a purely entertainment angle. Let me know if you'd like some more information.

Best,

Julia DeWitt
Producer
NPR-Snap Judgment

Julia, paranoia runs deep, into their hearts it has crept.
They don't believe in the statute of limitations, neither.

Apparently Dale Bard does.

http://snapjudgment.org/lake-chronicopia

zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 15, 2015 - 04:22pm PT
^Maybe it's just me, but the sound is worse that my worst old LP.

Is there a transcript?

There is more interesting and controversial stuff out there, that's not here.

iT MUST JUST BE ME. i'LL HAVE TO GIVE A REHEARING.

You nailed it (cut to the chase?) right there Kev. Drug harvesting and dealing is intrinsically a pretty boring activity, probably only superceded in yawn factor by defending the culprits in the courts, though given the right (or wrong) clientele, it can raise the heart rate a few notches.

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Aug 15, 2015 - 04:43pm PT
Nothing new, but the piece was well done, a good listen, and I bet it took less than 10 years to put together.
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Aug 16, 2015 - 08:24am PT
So did you score or what warbie? Details, details. Otherwise we are all going to speculate
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Aug 18, 2015 - 01:01pm PT
Maybe write a beta version? Test it out on the supertopo audience?
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 18, 2015 - 04:29pm PT
"Exercise", eh?...
Rock!...oopsie.

Trad climber
the pitch above you
Aug 18, 2015 - 04:34pm PT
At first this thread was entertaining and had some good content. But for the past SEVERAL F*#KING YEARS that's not the case. I'm so tired of this stupid thread that I hope that the book never does come out although it's probably a moot point since only about 15 people will read the turd anyway.

Die thread die.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Aug 18, 2015 - 05:40pm PT
"Drug harvesting and dealing is intrinsically a pretty boring activity."

QED.

But...

zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 18, 2015 - 07:47pm PT
1985

SAN DIEGO, March 18— Two Peruvians accused of controlling a fifth of the cocaine entering the United States have been arrested, the Federal authorities said today.

...

The indictment alleged the cartel had outlets for distribution throughout the United States, including San Diego; Los Angeles; San Francisco; Dallas; Miami; Sun Valley, Idaho; Portland, Ore.; New York City; Atlanta; Hawaii and Agana, Guam.


Did any climbers use cocaine? Did any climbers send themselves or their kids to school with the proceeds of cocaine deals?


Send all comments to United States Attorney Peter Nunez.

*Disclaimer. I knew an indictee and the defense attorney, but I am receiving no money from this public service notice.




labrat

Trad climber
Erik O. Auburn, CA
Dec 1, 2015 - 12:09pm PT
Bump for an update.

Any chance I can get three signed copies for Christmas this year?
the goat

climber
north central WA
Dec 7, 2015 - 03:25pm PT
The answer may lay deep within the bowels of this thread but I refuse to read whole thing looking for it. My question- was there an N-number associated with the plane?

I recently came across a photo of a Lockheed Lodestar that was stolen from Washington State circa 1974 and wondered if that might be the one. Anybody?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 7, 2015 - 03:28pm PT
It wasn't a Lodestar and the NTSB report is readily available.

A Howard 500 that flew over my crib a year or two ago...

There might be a half dozen in existence.
WBraun

climber
Dec 7, 2015 - 04:18pm PT
It's probably on it's way to Merced lake full of guns these days ^^^^

:-)

zBrown

Ice climber
Dec 7, 2015 - 04:46pm PT
N(umber) Nine
N(umber) Nine
N(umber) Nine

If Paul wasn't dead he would tell ya.

the goat

climber
north central WA
Dec 7, 2015 - 05:36pm PT
Really? Heck, I thought it was a Lodestar all these years. On a related note there's a Lodestar being rebuilt here in the NW that I can't wait to see fly again. Not many of them around these days.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 7, 2015 - 05:47pm PT
hurt the sport of climbing
ruin peoples reputations
may put sombody in jail
enrage law enforcement who will now view climbers as criminals
dont even know these people
encourage young people to screw up
help noone
Here's a novel idea.

Behave like responsible citizens and the issues go away.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 17, 2015 - 11:11am PT
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 17, 2015 - 11:21am PT
The paint job is slightly different from what it looked like when "they" flew it. The company that did the paint job did not keep photos of their work which I find amazing. The nose was white as was the underside, but the striping was the same
AE

climber
Boulder, CO
Dec 17, 2015 - 04:16pm PT
So, after ten years, a couple thousand thread entries, and unknown numbers of contacts outside this thread, R Licky, the world's expert on this whole Lodestar business, finally noticed that someone actually published a book five years ago, with gasp, apparently inaccurate information? (see author's reply from Feb 23, 2015)
Until you prove otherwise, I'm accepting the gospel according to "Valley Uprising", especially when your exhaustive research leads you to ask openly in this forum on Jun 8, 2015 the highly technical, secret information, "During the winter of 1976/77, is there anyone that thinks it might have been possible for a couple of guys to have made it up to the lake on snowmobiles?" Duh, like asked and answered a few dozen times already in these damnable posts.
Unsuspecting newbies here should abandon ship in all haste, or else get tied to the white whale that is promised to soon be Mr Licky's literary masterwork.
Once a government conspiracy theory arises, all hope for veracity is lost. Insinuating cover-ups for god-knows-what eight years before Ollie's Iran-Contra debacle makes you all kinds of buddies in the Paranoic's Buyer's Club but it is never going to pass for journalism.
But hey we already know there's no book anyway, so keep trolling, faster, faster, as that bait's smellin' awfully old and rotten.
zBrown

Ice climber
Dec 17, 2015 - 05:23pm PT
Well the way I see it, someone, or more correctly some group, got either great and/or perverse pleasure some 2407 times out of participating in this thread.

Is the book, should it ever come out, now a sequel?

As far as I know, nobody has died from it.


Psilocyborg

climber
Dec 17, 2015 - 08:04pm PT
Yo what if there were snakes on the plane?

*throws handkerchief in the air and faints
zBrown

Ice climber
Dec 17, 2015 - 08:12pm PT

Has anybody given thought to the fact that the first two posters on this thread were Licky and Herr Braun? Has anyone ever actually seen hB and Licky in the room at the same time?

I thought so.



http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1695182&msg=2737289#msg2737289
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 17, 2015 - 10:56pm PT
Ahhh....but WBraun and Licky have spent time together sharing stories as well as a cup o'tea. This isn't about those what whine (remember sidmo), this is about the story. If you don't have the patience to hang in there, maybe checkers is more your game.

More meetings this week
Rock!...oopsie.

Trad climber
the pitch above you
Dec 18, 2015 - 04:08am PT
More meetings this week

Hot damn, did you finally track down the great nephew of the guy that designed the tire tread on the landing gear? I'm pretty sure he's the key to this whole thing!
zBrown

Ice climber
Dec 18, 2015 - 07:08am PT
but WBraun and Licky have spent time together sharing stories as well as a cup o'tea.

Witnesses?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 18, 2015 - 07:27am PT
Many books take this long to get out, so keep on hatin', you haters.
Licky has shown admirable restraint, for the most part, in the face of
this no-stop hate-fest. I'm not surprised that Werner would give
graciously of his time.

And while I have taken a few good-natured sniping shots at you, Licky, I really do wish you
the best. Just don't put too much down on that Ferrari when you sign yer deal, eh? 😃

ps
While I aver it appeals to a rather narrow audience I am in that audience
cause I've never seen a plane wreck the cause of which did not interest me.
In this case, since the NTSB did knott do it's usual bang-up investigation,
I'm most interested in seeing Licky's cause of the crash. Since the one
wing was found a ways from the rest of the debris in-flight breakup seems a
done deal, but why is the question, n'est ce pas?
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 18, 2015 - 09:19am PT
Using the search box on "tail number" got this.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=73572&msg=795861#msg795861
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 18, 2015 - 09:20am PT
Witnesses?

Nah. I think they were both asleep when the plane went down.
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Dec 18, 2015 - 10:33am PT
Just one thing.......
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Dec 18, 2015 - 10:34am PT
Never Happened.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Dec 18, 2015 - 10:38am PT
You guys have no idea what's involved in research and writing.

Ph.D. programs normally give a person 10 years to finish a dissertation.

If Licky has discovered any government irregularities, he better have his facts well documented in case of lawsuits and media coverage.

Getting the climber's stories was the easy part of the research, and it seems, only a small part of the whole story.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 18, 2015 - 10:53am PT
Thank you, Jan. More to the point could be that in the case of a first
book by someone who, presumably, needs to make a living some other
way this is a laudable effort in efficiency.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 18, 2015 - 03:39pm PT
A friend of mine got a letter from the u. Of Chicago asking him how come he hasn't handed in his dissertation after 25 years. He typed it onto computer, sent it in, and got his PhD.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Dec 18, 2015 - 03:56pm PT
Really? Was he already well known in the field? Or wealthy so they wanted him as an alumus?
squishy

Mountain climber
Dec 19, 2015 - 12:11pm PT
I was up there last summer with the newest in drone technology. With this new tech we were able to get about 3 pounds of DRY Jane from the bottom of the lake..not far from the shore at all. Good luck out there..

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 20, 2015 - 09:52am PT
That's not the plane.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Dec 20, 2015 - 09:54am PT
Really? Was he already well known in the field? Or wealthy so they wanted him as an alumus?

He was well known in the field after he got the PhD.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2015 - 03:04am PT
Here is the plane, or at least part of the plane during the salvage operation. It was provided by Vaughn Lam who had the contract with the Park Service. He charged the Park $15K and the Park Department tried to get $25K from the pilot's wife. Vaughn Lam was really pissed off to hear this Yeah, I know..this is little stuff, but added to the big picture, it'll put a smile on the reader.
zBrown

Ice climber
Dec 21, 2015 - 07:16pm PT
On June 10, 1979, Mark Yavorsky, an award-winning actor from the University of San Diego [more likely he was from UCSD], killed his mother using an antique saber.

....

What advice would you offer students who want to get their work out in the world?
Have the courage to think outside the box. If you can’t find a partner, shoot it yourself. If you have a good story, the rest will fall into place.

This project languished for 15 years, and I finally made it. Never give up hope.



http://www.bu.edu/today/2010/a-murder-that-mimicked-greek-tragedy/
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Jan 7, 2016 - 10:52pm PT
2016 bump
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jan 7, 2016 - 11:19pm PT
Will this be the year the book gets written?
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jan 8, 2016 - 02:36am PT
That didn't take long,
Good flip flop I forgot to say
Bump
We or many of the faithful
Both in & out of the know
Can not abide that
a book is even being written.
Is A book even being written?
A play on words ?
Not ness ray
the bright light will add
No thing
Necessary nothing
No ray of light will help
Thr Flight if it happened the way
Licking say we would have
Seven to ten more
Novellas
Fo' sure.


The only thing that really needs to be said:


so you want to be a writer?


if it doesn’t come bursting out of you
in spite of everything,
don’t do it.
unless it comes unasked out of your
heart and your mind and your mouth
and your gut,
don’t do it.
if you have to sit for hours
staring at your computer screen
or hunched over your
typewriter
searching for words,
don’t do it.
if you’re doing it for money or
fame,
don’t do it.
if you’re doing it because you want
women in your bed,
don’t do it.
if you have to sit there and
rewrite it again and again,
don’t do it.
if it’s hard work just thinking about doing it,
don’t do it.
if you’re trying to write like somebody
else,
forget about it.


if you have to wait for it to roar out of
you,
then wait patiently.
if it never does roar out of you,
do something else.

if you first have to read it to your wife
or your girlfriend or your boyfriend
or your parents or to anybody at all,
you’re not ready.

don’t be like so many writers,
don’t be like so many thousands of
people who call themselves writers,
don’t be dull and boring and
pretentious, don’t be consumed with self-
love.
the libraries of the world have
yawned themselves to
sleep
over your kind.
don’t add to that.
don’t do it.
unless it comes out of
your soul like a rocket,
unless being still would
drive you to madness or
suicide or murder,
don’t do it.
unless the sun inside you is
burning your gut,
don’t do it.

when it is truly time,
and if you have been chosen,
it will do it by
itself and it will keep on doing it
until you die or it dies in you.

there is no other way.

and there never was.



Charles Bukowski, 1920 - 1994
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jan 8, 2016 - 02:45am PT
Pictures





And







music






zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 8, 2016 - 02:06pm PT
Pictures, eh.




El Chapo recaptured. Rumoured to have foul smell about him. Some liken it to airplane fuel.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/01/08/drug-lord-el-chapo-has-been-captured-mexican-president-says/

Now if some reward money were made available, don't you think the mystery of the 1977 plane crash could be solved more expeditiously?

Oh yeah, musica?

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2658912&tn=20#msg2748279



zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 24, 2016 - 06:10pm PT
Near as I can tell, there were no tests done for explosives residue on the fuselage of the plane that went for a swim in the lake one night.

Think about it.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jan 24, 2016 - 06:42pm PT
Zbrown.. Those USDS frats take the whole AZTEC sacrificial thing too seriously...A sabre..?
zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 24, 2016 - 06:46pm PT
Cement ... sho ... er wings.


Sid Mo

climber
Jan 29, 2016 - 07:54pm PT
Damn Lickhead, you ain't done yet? Geez, I left you alone all this time so you could get some writin' did. It was groovy too, not reading this drivel for a while - but then you just had to rattle my cage, didn't you Lickoff? So I get a new tablet, fire it up and peek into your little thread. Big surprise that you had to blast me again, even after all this time. You can't write and its bugging you more and more as you get older and older and older. You'll never finish the book Lickfrench because you don't known how to start - only how to start a thread. I wish I had met you for that coffee only so I'd have a bigger laugh now thinking about what a shmucking phuck you are. Go to hell Lickwound, I'll save you a spot so you can burn with the rest of us. Oh, and bring your "manuscript" - I'll bring my red pencil. Your precious document will bleed like a freshman term paper.

Oh yeah, Pricky. You say some stupid trivia factoid is gonna "put a smile on the reader"- that assumes there will ever be a "reader" - why not put a smile on your publisher and write the damn book already?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 14, 2016 - 10:39pm PT
He does make a pretty good troll doesn't he?
Sid Mo

climber
Feb 14, 2016 - 11:19pm PT
I make a better troll than you do a writer
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2016 - 12:42am PT
Why the change in the user id sidmo? Did they axe your account? Or maybe you never were who you claimed to be...what say ye?
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Feb 24, 2016 - 09:05am PT
OMG, grown men?? acting like wee little ones. Life is too beautiful to waste it will all this hate. Sad. Sad. Sad. Open your hearts and love!!!
Sid Mo

climber
Mar 2, 2016 - 05:57pm PT
LICK, this ain't about me motherphucker! I know you want to deflect criticism and the easiest way to do that is to attack the critic, but it doesn't change the fact that YOU ARE A POSER, posing as a writer and a climber and a licky. You should just admit that you're in way over your head and apologize for trying to fake everybody out for TEN DADGUM YEARS. Come clean on this and you might find peace and closure. Or not. Who cares about you anyway? You're just a poser attacking me for a change I made, from Sidmo to Sid Mo. Wow, is that all you got? Ten years and you're quibbling over a blank space in my screen name? The space you need to worry about is the one in your manuscript. Or between your ears.
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Mar 2, 2016 - 06:38pm PT
you should just admit that you're in way over your head and apologize for trying to fake everybody out for TEN DADGUM YEARS.

I could give a shite if you apologize and I suspect there are plenty more just like me.

Who cares about you anyway?

You seem to be the only one that really cares-

The only time you every post anything is negative crap on this thread.
However, at least you keep it to this thread...actually you both do so thanks!

I stop by just to see if you two still have hard ons for each other-which I see you do:-)
carry on studs
Kaleponi

Social climber
Kaunakakai, HI
Mar 10, 2016 - 08:54am PT
Enjoying the mature discourse on this old thread! Check out what my bud has in his bar in Honolulu:
Sid Mo

climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 11:55am PT
D-Dog, what's this homophobic crap about hardons have to do with anything? You brought up genatalia for what I think might be the first time on this extended thread. Talk about negativity. I guess if it's not in your mouth it's on your mind. As I said, licky needs to come clean And I guess you need to come out of the closet, whoever the phuck you are.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 02:04pm PT
Cars seem to go down in value with the passage of time. Crashed airplanes? I can't say. Lots of books go up in value, but I think that is after they are published.

Sid Mo

climber
Mar 15, 2016 - 06:31pm PT
Yeah if licky would stop procrastinating I could invest in a first edition. But is it a first edition if there is no second? I'm certain that The Plane will be a bestseller, probably soar to the top of NYT list. Why heck, Lick's probably dotting the last I and crossing the last T as we speak. I'm gonna set my tent up at Barnes and Nobles so I'm sure to get my copy before the first run sells out.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 17, 2016 - 09:36am PT
Sometimes things just take 60-70 years.



At the time, it was the deadliest airplane disaster in history. After rescue crews left the scene, nobody could find the site again for decades.
'

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2016/mar/03/70-years-plane-crash-poway-pilot-finds-wreckage/
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 17, 2016 - 10:28am PT
Cool story zBrown, I guess after 70 years all the "fun stuff" had been hauled off.

that article alone is better than Licky's book at this point. I have another 20 years in me, so I can wait him out.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 31, 2016 - 09:01pm PT
Kaleponi, will you email me? Thanks, Rick
zBrown

Ice climber
Apr 21, 2016 - 08:32am PT
nuevo túnel - A record! - 2600 feet


Just in time for 4/20! Agents find 2,600ft tunnel packed with seven tons of marijuana, a ton of cocaine and even its own rail system on Mexican border in what could be the longest drugs passage EVER found

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3550372/800-yard-long-drug-tunnel-Mexico-San-Diego.html#ixzz46TXyAqzE
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

(will 14,000 qualify as recreational use after November?)


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3550372/800-yard-long-drug-tunnel-Mexico-San-Diego.html




2014

According to U.S. law enforcement, Colombian national police, and Foreign narcotic experts, a wholesaler can buy a kilo of cocaine straight from the jungle in Colombia for approximately $2200.00. At Colombian ports, wholesale prices for a kilo of cocaine average between $5,500.oo, and $7,000.00. DEA (Drug Enforcement Administration) officials has reported over the years that cocaine prices increased exponentially once it leaves production and transferred to markets in the United States and foreign markets. Actually, as the report points out, the farther away, and the more isolated the drugs are from different countries the higher the cost for dealers and users.
For example, Central America cocaine cost $10,000.00 per kilogram, and in Southern Mexico that same kilo sells for $12,000,00, unless a broker make an agreement to reduce the price based on multiple kilos of cocaine. Notice the much higher price between Central America and Mexico. After cocaine is transported into Mexico City area, a kilo is worth approximately $16,000.00 near the border town of Northern Mexico. Depending on the location in the U.S., wholesale on the streets average between $24,000.00, and $27,000.00.



Your assignment, should you choose to accept it, is to determine at which link in the distribution channel your risk/reward ratio greatest. Use your own experience, this thread and any leaked pre-release pages of Licky's book in your calculations.

SHOW YOUR WORK.
Sid Mo

climber
Apr 29, 2016 - 09:51pm PT
See how he uses the thread to send secretive messages to suspicious strangers in non-coded text just so we don't figure out that he's really an alien posing on Earth as an international spy using the alias of an aspiring historical investigative journalist to further the agenda the evil leaders he worships in a galaxy far away while exposing all the posters on his thread to subliminal hypnotic suggestions compelling us to hassle him about never finishing his imaginary book about the mysterious Yosemite plans crash of 1977 in order to make his laughable project seem legitimate enough to provide him a reasonable cover for his nefarious nastiness instead of responding to the countless jeers and sneers he endures online in pursuit of what has turned out to be a ridiculously quixotic obsession?
zBrown

Ice climber
May 1, 2016 - 10:16am PT
Must be some kinda communication breakdown, like this one.

Somebody forgot to pay the bribe on time or to the right guy.

Seven tons of marijuana were found stashed in a trailer attempting to cross the Otay Mesa cargo facility in south San Diego on April 28, 2016. The drugs had an estimated street value of $7.1 million.


BTW, I heard last night that the Zodiac guy is still alive. Hope it doesn't wreck my book.
Sid Mo

climber
May 2, 2016 - 06:43am PT
Finished?

Yer kiddin, right?
zBrown

Ice climber
May 2, 2016 - 08:24am PT
Border tunnels detected since 2008 = 138. Cost of remediation (mainly filling with concrete), estimated at $8.7million.

Why not just put sensors in the tunnels and monitor whether there are attempts to re-use them? Could intercept more smuggling attempts and boost their seizures advertising numbers.

Who is getting paid to do the concrete work?



Sid Mo

climber
May 3, 2016 - 07:18am PT
Trump. He's gonna build a wall and get paid for that by Mexico. Licky can't even write a book.
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
May 9, 2016 - 09:33am PT
Decrepit old men
Sid Mo

climber
May 10, 2016 - 08:57pm PT
DecrepiD-it, dude. And, no, Licky hasn't finished the book yet. Yeah, I know. It's been, like forever. I wish he'd finish too, the doctor only gave me fifty years to live.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
May 10, 2016 - 09:45pm PT
Let's face it. This thread is the book.


Ditto that.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 11, 2016 - 09:41am PT
the doctor only gave me fifty years to live.

Now that's an interesting deal right there. What did he charge?

If you find one that can dissolve cataracts, please post it here. I check in from time to time.

Sid Mo

climber
May 21, 2016 - 01:22pm PT
My soul. Small price eh? Devils got a deal for Licky too. Bookwriter glory for an eternity in the hot seat.
Sid Mo

climber
May 22, 2016 - 09:53am PT
It's not the thread that's FUBAR, it's the book itself, or lack thereof. The thread functions on different levels but the book either doesn't exist, never existed or serves a purpose not revealed to the participants. In other words Licky is either disengenuous or inept. Either he can't write or never really intended to all along. For years he's been called out to offer a sneak preview or even a chapter summary or table of contents but most, if not all of the prods, pokes, requests have been met with scorn, derision, hostility or merely a vacuum within which the silence is deafening. He asks the participants to offer up details of an illegal activity with no compensation other than a vague assurance that someday we might get to read the story. For those like myself who have asked for some assurance that a project is actually underway and not some information-gathering device for another purpose have been ridiculed as a poser or liar. Much as Donald Trump shouts down his legitimate critics with bombast and ridicule, Licky engages his critics with vitriol and innuendo, and this coming from a kid who clearly is too young to know anything first-hand about the event in question. He curries favor with his favorites while viciously attacking his critics. The analogies to Trump are numerous and disturbing. WHO is this guy you've told your secrets to?And who IS he really? Perhaps there will be a hundred word bio on the dust jacket of the hardcover edition of his book, assuming there ever will be one at all. And if we assume that there is a book really being written, as opposed to a database of illegalities for law enforcement to parse for ties to other investigations then we must ASSUME. I choose not to, because to do so "makes an ASS out of yoU and ME. And we all know that Licky's the ass here.
cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
May 22, 2016 - 12:02pm PT
All theses years and Mr.Sidmo is still ranting. Comical
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 22, 2016 - 12:27pm PT
I was 17 when the plane crashed.

I was 44 when this thread started.

I'm 55 now.

Sigh....

We'll all be dead by the time this thing comes off the press!!
zBrown

Ice climber
May 22, 2016 - 12:50pm PT
^maybe you can get sidmo's doc to see that your grave is kept clean?

and

don't give up on stem cells. Gordie Howe, now around 88 uses 'em and swears by their effectivity.

aspendougy

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
May 22, 2016 - 07:33pm PT
My feeling is that there is not really that much of a story here. A plane crashes with contraband..........a few dirtbags go up and retrieve......some of them sell the stuff and get a few bucks........ I wouldn't pay to read it. It was an obscure enough incident bank in its day, and now???
WBraun

climber
May 22, 2016 - 07:43pm PT
One guy made enough bucks to support himself thru 4 years of college and bought a house to boot.

He wasn't a local nor a climber but this guy showed up out of nowhere and came just to make money for the previous sentences reason .....
Sid Mo

climber
May 22, 2016 - 10:45pm PT
Comical. Dirtbags. Comical dirtbags?
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
May 23, 2016 - 08:47am PT
this guy showed up out of nowhere and came just to make money for the previous sentences reason .....

How he found out and got there might be the more interesting story.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 23, 2016 - 10:31am PT
More interesting would be reading what smoking 100 octane-soaked bunk weed does to you.
Is the statute of limitations up on that, too?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2016 - 11:41pm PT
I can't count the times I have offered to meet with sid/mo to hear his stories. His latest nomicor has left him open to email I posted to him that I was open to getting together and giving him his 15 minutes. Instead of accepting he resorts to the same old rhetoric. He'd rather take the loud road and bash what he has no clue about.

Come on sidly...step up to the plate, meet me and tell me your story. I promise you that I'll use it. How can it get any better?
Sula

Trad climber
Pennsylvania
Jun 2, 2016 - 05:25am PT
Licky wrote:
How can it get any better?
If it were published?

Okay, right - crazy idea; would spoil a great thread. Never mind.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 19, 2016 - 05:41pm PT
I recently found a crash site in a remote off trail area 5 miles north of Kennedy Meadows. I was looking for information about the crash, one crash is listed at this website, it is listed as a BT-13 located just west of Haiwee (southern Sierra), with no other info.

In the process of looking I found Licky's plane online at this website listed as a Lockheed P-1 Ventura. I was under the belief that Licky's plane was a Howard 500. Although the Howard 500 was a new aircraft, it was a design based on the fuselage jigs from the Lodestar and Ventura so I guess they used the Ventura designation. The Howard 500 became a reality after a Mexican business asked Dee Howard to build a plane that would fly non-stop from Mexico City to New York.

The crash I found was from a large plane with an 8 cylinder I presume opposed configuration, the engine block was smashed. Definitely not a radial engine, which is what the BT-13 had. There was some evidence of military type zinc chromate on some pieces so I think it might be military. It had been there a long time and only an idiot would take a trip through that area. I find reference to an Air Force database of crash sites but none of the links worked

Any ideas on how to ID this plane

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 19, 2016 - 06:19pm PT
Jon, that engine is unlikely to be in a military plane unless it was used to haul brass around.
That is a big engine for that type so it can't be too common of a civvy job. Off hand my
built-in data base is coming up empty. I'd be interested to see more picks. There is no
shortage of wreck hunters, as a cursory web search will show. You could also PM our own
'vegasclimber' as he is quite into that.

ps
that last pic almost looks like a machine gun but not quite. I can't imagine what part of a
plane it might be.

pps
I just ran through Wiki's list of all US military aircraft and I didn't see one that I thought would
have an 8 cyl horizontally opposed engine, and I assume this was a twin, right? This is
quite intriguing. In yer first pick I'm not seeing what looks an 8 cyl opposed.
Blakey

Trad climber
Sierra Vista
Jun 20, 2016 - 11:51am PT
That is surely the left sideplate of a 50 cal.....

Steve
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 20, 2016 - 12:26pm PT
Thanks, Steve, I thought it looked like one but I have no experience with
them- 3"-50 was the smallest I handled. :-)
So that is what I thought it might be - the swivel mount for firing out
the side like on a B-17. So it must be something from the 30's or 40's
(at the latest) and it must be an 'A' or a 'B' class plane but I will have
to go back and scour that list for something that didn't have radials.

edit:
I just went through another list with pics and I couldn't find a single
non-radial. Unless the pic is fooling us, and it is a radial, we got a
real mystery on our hands.

edit2:
The Consolidated P-30 from mid-30's had a V-12 engine but those pics don't look it.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 20, 2016 - 03:54pm PT
^Where's the BEEF ... er ... WEED??


don't give up on stem cells. Gordie Howe, now around 88 uses 'em and swears by their effectivity.


Like they say though, nothing lasts forever.

Reportedly his only acknowledged regret in life was not being able to read the book, now working titled 1977 (it worked for that war film and come to think of it George Orwell).


RIP Gordie.





Gordie Howe,legenda jo eläessään.Teki maaleja löi turpaan ja syötteli.

NHL: Jääkiekkolegenda Gordie Howe sai vakavan sairaskohtauksen - NHL - Ilta-Sanomat

Nyt 86-vuotias veteraani taistelee elämästään.

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 20, 2016 - 07:55pm PT
They made multi-row radials, real beasts. however the cylinders were staggered in a spiral pattern. Could have been a V-12 which I believe they used


Here is a better picture, I thought this was an actuator, could it be a gun?

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 20, 2016 - 08:25pm PT
Jon, that mega radial must have been a one off as I believe the biggest production model
was the four row 28 cyl used in the B-29. Your pic only shows 4 jugs. Did you actually
count them or really determine the configuration?
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 20, 2016 - 08:52pm PT
I just snapped a few pictures without really thinking about getting into any detail, figured I would just find the full story on the internet. You can see three of the cylinders are intact, the fourth is broken off. Could have been a longer row than four, the force of impact was tremendous and sheared the manifolds off.

I might have to go back up in the fall when it cools off. There could be more wreckage further up the hill. It was four pm and I still had to get across the river and up the other side.

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=852341&page=all

here is a link about that large radial. I love radials. I get goosebumps when I hear one. I learned to fly in a Stearman with a 220 continental. Blew a quart of oil down the belly every hour. I was stationed in Japan where they had the last active duty DC-3 (C-47). They would fire them up and fly one to Korea each week in the late 70s. Story was the had too many hours on the airframes to return to CONUS.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 20, 2016 - 09:08pm PT
Jon, a quick perusal of yer link gives me no reason to doubt my assertion that that engine
never flew in a production airframe, especially as somebody there asserted it had 8 cylinders
per row. Unless I am grossly mistaken ALL radials have odd numbers of jugs with 5 or 7
being the usual. I used to know why but it escapes me just now but I seem to recall that the
firing order requires it so as not to shake itself to bits.

Lucky you learning in a Stearman! Anything after that was easy!
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 21, 2016 - 12:43am PT
There was a crash of a TWA DC2 just uphill from Lower Merced Pass Lake in 1938 on Buena Vista Crest. Maybe a mile away.

DC2's had Wright Radial engines. 9 cylinder.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_Yosemite_TWA_crash

Four stroke radials had an odd number of cylinders to maintain the every other cylinder firing order. Two stroke radials had even numbers of cylinders.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 21, 2016 - 09:26am PT
Jon, my bro-in-law* replied:

"I don't know enough except the engine looks rather small, if you looks at
the shoe in comparison to the cylinders and piston visible. I doubt it is
over 300 horsepower. It looks liquid cooled.

The mechanism might be associated with a landing gear. There really isn't
much to see. Too bad there weren't more photos."

*ATP w/25,000 hrs, Cert A&P
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 21, 2016 - 11:51am PT
The 2 stroke rotary makes a lot of sense because there is no oil sump to deal with.

the engine looks rather small

of course it looks small to an ATP! Looks big to me. I am pretty sure it is air cooled because the cylinders are wrapped in tin. The early engines were water cooled but they got away from that pretty quick. Although more recently Mooney built a Porsche equipped plane that was water cooled. Why add the weight and complexity of water cooling when you have plenty of air to go around.

In the early days of aviation there was a radial engine in which the crankshaft was fixed and the cylinders spun. Major gyroscopic precession issues.
James Wilcox

Trad climber
Goleta/Virginia Lakes
Jun 21, 2016 - 12:42pm PT
A friend once posted this youtube video on his facebook. Great explanation of the radial engine, along with being quite the wood craftsman.

radial engine in wood
[url=" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjnQKXNPsk4"] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjnQKXNPsk4[/url]
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 21, 2016 - 01:41pm PT
I don't think that engine can be a radial; there is no way for cooling air to get around the heads. It looks like a fabricated block with water cooling jacket added. You can clearly see the intake ports and overhead valves. Also, with a radial the cylinders would have to be staggered if it was multi-row and if a single row the configuration doesn't match a radial at all. Also, as someone above pointed out, radials have to have an odd number of cylinders and a master cylinder that the other pistons hang on.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 21, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
Wino, we know it isn't a radial. What we don't know is everything else! ;-)
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 21, 2016 - 02:00pm PT
Is it possibly this?

Marmot1

Mountain climber
A-town,ca
Jun 21, 2016 - 02:24pm PT
Missing P-40 WWII aircraft remains a mountain mystery. On Oct. 24, 1941,they started their training mission from March Army Airfield in Southern California to McClellan Field in Sacramento.
Five of these aircraft were lost the first day of that mission.
The first to experience engine problems was Lt. John Pease and he bailed out 15 miles north of Lake Isabella near Wild Rose Canyon. Lt. Pease survived and his P40 was recovered.
Lt. W.H. Burrell's bird crashed north of Bass Lake at Gray's Mountain to which a memorial monument was placed next to the only remaining artifact the engine.
Two others are located in the Sequoia National Forest area. Lt. Jack C. West crashed just west of the Roaring River Ranger Station and survived. Some debris still remains at that location.
Lt. Richard N. Long crashed and wasn't discovered until 1959 southwest of South Guard Lake at 11,200 feet, to which a memorial stone was placed. Some debris still remains at that location.

The fifth bird has never been located, even though many professional wreck hunters searched the Sequoia National Forest area, but never found a clue of its whereabouts.
The pilot, Lt. Leonard C. Lydon, bailed out and survived, but the location of the wreckage remains a mystery today.

Looks like you found the missing P-40 based on your pic of the damaged engine. The bellows shaped cylinder water jacket matches the Allison v12 engine.
Also the plane was equipped with .50cal guns matching your pics.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 21, 2016 - 02:54pm PT
of course that sort of linkage was used on just about everything

great find Marmot, I will have to read up on that story, thanks


hamie

Social climber
Thekoots
Jun 22, 2016 - 01:03am PT
What kind of a training mission results in 5 missing planes??????????
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 22, 2016 - 07:18am PT
What kind of a training mission results in 5 missing planes??????????

They were ordered to fly in formation from March AFB to Sacramento and flew right into bad weather. More planes were lost on the return trip a week later. Total of 8 planes were lost. I think some of the losses might have been search planes.

From Pat Macha's Website

The weather problem was compounded by the P-40's propensity to develop carb ice at altitudes over 12k feet.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 22, 2016 - 07:25am PT
The sad thing is that a flight from March to Sac has no need to go over the Sierras especially
in view of the fact those planes and pilots were not equipped or able to fly IFR, especially
in a thunderstorm.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jun 22, 2016 - 07:59am PT
Here's a picture of the Allison. Good call Reilly.

Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
Jun 22, 2016 - 12:39pm PT
Shouldn't somebody report the find to the Air force for verification?
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 22, 2016 - 03:57pm PT
Shouldn't somebody report the find to the Air force for verification?

A guy who has rebuild P-40s has looked at the pictures and verified that they are P-40 parts. It is a machine gun in the one picture.

Supposedly the Air Force recovered most of the plane a couple of weeks after it went down in 1941. They left behind the pieces that are there now, and no record of its location was made. Basically the site was "lost" again.

The formation flight was supposed to go up the Central Valley but poor leadership had them going over the mountains. oops
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jun 28, 2016 - 04:07pm PT
@2503 posts do i dare click the link?
It is much more of a read to try to read this thread end to 'eifin end.


It was obvious to anyone living in the small community of Yosemite Valley that something had changed. In addition to throwing money around in the Village, a few climbers — the same ones who dived dumpsters for food — bought used cars and new packs. All of a sudden there was plenty of nice climbing equipment in Camp 4. Strader got his rack, which he would use to climb El Capitan four times in 1977.

Some of the climbers squirreled away their earnings. John Bachar, the Stonemaster and famous solo climber, was rumored to have used cash from his haul to help fund a successful climbing gear company. (Bachar died in a climbing accident in 2009, so it's impossible to confirm.) Lykins, the waiter who first discovered the wing, traded his windfall for a couple of years of college tuition. Vern Clevenger bought his first Nikon with the Lower Merced weed money — Clevenger has since become an acclaimed nature photographer. There were climbing trips to France and Asia and blowouts that are still the stuff of legend. It's likely the biggest windfalls exceeded $20,000, a tremendous amount of money in 1977. But the climbers tended to live fast, and in most cases the money didn't last long. The story has fared better. The crash grew mythic in barroom retellings and has been conveyed in fragments in books and newspapers, as well as in the 2014 documentary about Yosemite's climbing scene, Valley Uprising.

On April 13, which would later be known as Big Wednesday, six armed rangers boarded a Huey and stormed Lower Merced Pass like death from above. "By all reports it was like ants scattering," recalls Setnicka, who was on the radio at the time of the April offensive. "The people up there had created this infrastructure kind of like the Vietcong put in some areas of Vietnam — makeshift housing and tents, fire pits, all sorts of tarps. They picked up digging equipment wherever they could. It was really caveman technology."

The Park Service was embarrassed that the crash site had been discovered. "We underestimated the entrepreneurial spirit of certain members of the community," says Setnicka. Rangers were posted along the trails leading away from the lake in order to catch people fleeing. For all the melee, Clevenger and a companion were the only two arrested. They were told to report to the park's federal magistrate the next day, but the arrest was later nullified, thanks to a due process violation. No one was ever convicted for their involvement in Dope Lake.

After the siege, two rangers who had served in the military were given rations and equipment and sent to guard the lake. The pair lived in a tent for 17 days. They rigged trip wires to ration cans and kept their pug-nosed .38 pistols at the ready.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jun 28, 2016 - 04:11pm PT
Licky got a credit on the photos so I imagine he had a hand in writing the article.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 28, 2016 - 08:51pm PT
Why did ric get photo credit for photos which quite clearly are not his?

http://public.fotki.com/RonLykins/travel/airplane_1977/

C'mon ric. Time to fess up .

What about the ranger interview from public radio?

Why no credits for Arellano-Felix?

Why did the plane crash?


bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jun 29, 2016 - 01:40am PT
When was that article published? Is it in the current issue?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 29, 2016 - 07:08am PT
Why did the plane crash?

Since the NTSB did no inquiry I would be very surprised if Licky has managed to suss it out
after 40 years. It may not quite be rocket science but it ain't something you can learn by
taking an online course.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 08:21am PT
When was that article published?

A severe limitation and aggravation of the internet. The article doesn't have a date, but was posted 2days ago.

I found another page which says "JUN 2016", so apparently the currrent issue.


When did planes begin carrying flight recorders. Would a plane such as this have had them?

So, subject to affirmation by ric of course, 150 40-pound packages.

Interesting that the flight path was known despite both occupants of the plane dying in the crash. So this was not the first trip, eh?

How many trips had they made?

Did they wave to mfm?


Halfway up the state, Glisky killed his running lights and turned sharply inland, hitting the deck to drop off radar. Cutting across the sparsely populated farmland of the Central Valley basin, the plane reached the foothills of the Sierra Nevada in minutes.

And of course, where were they headed?

On a related note:

Wreckage, ‘Black Box’ Data Point to Fire Aboard EgyptAir Flight 804



bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Jun 29, 2016 - 04:38pm PT
The article was plenty for me. It's a fun read, but nowhere near as much fun as the visceral impact one feels when hearing the story as oral history, a woven tapestry of vernaculars and viewpoints told in the idiolects of those who were there, from one campfire to the next, over the decades. It's the tiny details and asides and gestures and facial expressions and humor and giddy reflective amusement that the storytellers bring to life and that make the story worth listening too. I spent many weeks in the Valley that spring, so I heard the whole tale from quite a few people, and already the story was well along in it's evolution into mythology. In any event, having read the article I doubt I'd bother to read any book, should it someday appear. Unless, of course, it receives rave reviews and a write-up in The New York Times Review Of Books.

In other words, meh.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 29, 2016 - 04:51pm PT
When did planes begin carrying flight recorders. Would a plane such as this have had them?

BwaHaHaHaHa! Even if that thing had one, and it most certainly did not,
do you seriously believe a bunch of dope runners would have it turned on?


where were they headed?

According to earlier posts in this thread their usual landing site was
up around the Black Rock Playa in NW NV.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Jun 29, 2016 - 04:57pm PT
F*#K THE BOOK!

Such a waste of time when anyone, myself included, could have done a Hollywood film version of this episode in Yosemite climbing history.

Condor of the Sierras is my own working title.

I have most of the plot worked out and an original screnplay is in the works.

I'm asking Chappie to play the part of the climbing ranger/narrator.

I am gonna get on my knees with eClint to ask him to produce this.

I know Hanks won't want to do this so soon after playing the role of Capt. Sully Sullenberger, Hero of the Hudson, but I want to give him first refusal.

So, keep dithering, kiddies.

See you at the movies.

MFM


edit: that is a great article in on the event, Camaro.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Jun 29, 2016 - 05:04pm PT
Why did the plane crash?

Probably misjudged altitude. There was a crash less than a mile from there in 1938 that went down for the same reason.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 05:22pm PT

Probably misjudged altitude. There was a crash less than a mile from there in 1938 that went down for the same reason.

They should have bought a flight recorder, turned it on the first trip, then just put it on auto-pilot thereafter, right?

That and a set of pontoons, though if they were really smart they would have never utilized a plane. No big time successes in the drug trade used/use airplanes. Everybody knows that.


Let's see what ric said


Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2014 - 04:40am PT
The left wing was found a quarter of a mile from one of the two verticle stabbalizers. When the Rangers flew up to the described location provided by Ron Lykins for the wing, they saw from the air a straight line of tree tops that were sheered off, almost acting like an arrow toward the lake. The verticle stabbilazer was found a quarter of a mile from the lake where the plane rested in sixty feet of water in Lower Merced Pass Lake, upside down in the deepest end.

Why would the plane come in low? It was clearing the Sierras running toward a location in northern Nevada. Remember, the Nevada Air National Guard was located at the Reno airport. This was 1976. The US had pulled out of Viet Nam, but the cold war was still on. Here is a huge plane traveling over 350 miles per hour looking just like a Russian Bear bomber. Glisky and Nelson want to fly below the radar sweep of the Sierra.

Something happens to the left engine. The plane dips low and the left wing catches some trees...............

Ok...I have two issues. One is why did the left engine have problems? It is well documented. And two, who had access to the engine(s) before the run?

I won't write this until I have some cold hard answers, and that's what I'm working on.


Finally, and maybe ric will tell us, where did all the money go? Not the $ used for a camera, some college classes, and possibly an equipment business, the real money?

http://gregnichols.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Dope-Lake-Nichols-July-Aug-16.pdf

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 29, 2016 - 05:27pm PT
Those guys were good pilots. They clearly had a mechanical issue. My
guess is an oil pressure issue which caused a catastrophic loss of oil
pressure in one of the prop governors so they weren't able to control
the prop pitch and that led to unmanageable yaw and pilot overload, which
ain't a good thing when you're only a few hundred feet above the trees
hauling azz in the dark.

And you can't use a flight director/autopilot for flying nape of the earth
unless you're in an F-111 or something of that ilk.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
Our work is just about done here then except for two questions:

Why didn't they have an F-111?

[I'll answer this one. Because it would have been even more uneconomical than their poorly chosen first choice].

Where did they go after they reached Nevada?

Things go better in threes, so how about, who was their accounting firm?





Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 06:05pm PT
Possibly the/a hydraulic pump as a bulletin had been sent out calling for replacement of said pump. A replacment pump was strapped to a pallet in the plane, they were going to swap them out, but. . .they must of been high. . .
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 29, 2016 - 06:42pm PT
Zb, the Howard was a gud choice: fast, gud payload, and a tail dragger so you
can land it anywhere with a long enough flat spit. An F-111 would not be so gud.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jun 29, 2016 - 08:19pm PT
For the bigtimers (e.g. El Chapo Group, Arellano-Felix) airplanes are a strictly cocaine kinda thing. For the dread ganga 1) by land 2) by sea.

bvb nails it for the intimately aware or involved:

... hearing the story as oral history, a woven tapestry of vernaculars and viewpoints told in the idiolects of those who were there, from one campfire to the next, over the decades ...


For the general purpose drug trafficking story aficionado, such as myself, it's the ingenious methodology, brazen pumpitude and audacity, and the big bucks that capture interest. Though actually knowing some of the folks doesn't hurt.

I've said this before. Unfortunately, the end result in almost all the stories is not a good one, but rather pretty sad.



The moral of the story?

Always be doing what you love to do (e.g. flying & smuggling) because you never know when you're going to die doing it.

and

Grizzly kills Montana mountain biker near Glacier National Park


http://www.adn.com/nation-world/2016/06/30/grizzly-kills-montana-mountain-biker-near-glacier-national-park/

Peace and out!


Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 30, 2016 - 10:27pm PT
The engines had an automatic sensing system that detected low oil pressure. If that occurred the four blades were immediately rotated to a neutral position (feathered)so they did not cause unnecessarily drag on that wing. So all of you that are speculating....I managed to find some mechanics that actually knew what the hell they were talking about.

This is once again what I've been talking about. This information is not easily gathered and it is not easily corroborated by at least three sources.

Don't let facts get in the way of your opinions
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 30, 2016 - 10:29pm PT
Like those systems can't fail? Google Mr Murphy, dear soul. There
hasn't been a mechanical system made yet that is fail safe, has there?
And with most crashes it is a combination of things that cause doom,
rarely any one thing. Furthermore, I don't see anybody putting their
life savings on their mental speculations. It's all good fun.
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Jun 30, 2016 - 11:08pm PT
I ... always wondered [where the fu-ck] were those guys really flying to? Where was the original drop point for that plane ...?
Late to the party, but did this first reply ever get answered?
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Jun 30, 2016 - 11:41pm PT
^^ answered in post 213 by Majid_S, with info from the FAA accident report:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=73572&msg=314089#msg314089

DEPARTURE POINT INTENDED DESTINATION
BAJA,MEXICO RENO,NV
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 1, 2016 - 08:40am PT
Well, I thought our work was done here, but I'm game. It really is, in the words of El Cheapo, "inexpensive entertainment".

You'll notice in the partial boat load of the Coronado Company there is what we used to call "a big honkin' bunch of weed".

1 - by land
2 - by sea

null - by air

Concerning "failsafes" (good name for a movie, huh), let me break it down for ya. There has never been reported (but you know lyin' politicians & beaurcrats & militarists) breakdown in the nuclear missile launch system.

However, on a small budget from proceeds of several tons of weed, I spose this type of system could not be afforded.




Ric, who was their accounting firm?

Keep on pluggin' away, but try to reach a wider public audience with some of the extraneous stuff. I believe the dare I say captive, audience is growing weary.




Addendum:

Sorry we all (except sidmo & Walleye that is) missed the 11 year reunion on May 21. (2005)


zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 3, 2016 - 08:55am PT
OK ric, as a make-up for missing the ceremony, here's your tie in (last time I checked Tahoe was right up there in the vicinity of Reno).

"Shot a man in Reno just to watch him die?"

In 1976, Lou [nominal head of the Coronado Company] had bought a place in Tahoe

Tahoe became a refuge for the Company

Sometimes they’d invite their investors to the lake, guys Lou brought in to spread the risk. Lou was good at intuiting potential partners. Some of them were already trade insiders, but others were straight: bond brokers and lawyers and other pedigreed people who couldn’t resist the 2- or sometimes 3-to-1 return Lou was offering. The Company had its own accountant, buying properties on its behalf, creating shell companies with names like Mo Ching Trading Co., Tow Tow Ltd., and Ku Won Investment Co., Ltd.



Was the CC "crushing" the competition?


↓ ↓ Hope you didn't shoot him in the foot.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jul 3, 2016 - 10:04am PT
Jody....good sighting....
Steve in Tahoe

Mountain climber
Lake Tahoe, NV
Jul 3, 2016 - 07:35pm PT
zBrown - where'd that quote come from?

regards,
steve
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 3, 2016 - 08:08pm PT
Say Steve. I knew some of the Coronado Company and "knew of" more, having grown up right across the bay.

I've got a lot of stuff so I'll have track it down. Bear with me.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jul 4, 2016 - 12:15am PT
hey there say, jody... wow, neat share, about your visit, and the other info, as to vern clevenger and family...
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 11:00am PT
Steve

RE: Coronado Boyz

Coronado High, by Joshuah Bearman, is Issue No. 27 of The Atavist

The author is the one from whom the story was "purchased" by Clooney. I guess the members of the Company lost their rights when they were convicted. :)

Bearman, BTW, also wrote Argo.

I have a 57 page Word document.
ValleySpectator

climber
Jul 5, 2016 - 10:42pm PT
Hello my name is Eric and I just spent the last 2 days reading through this after watching Valley Uprising. Great doc. You guys and gals are bad ass. The story of the plane crash was very intriguing to me. I grew up in San Jose and have spent some time in Yosemite and can''t remember ever hearing about this event, but heard plenty about DB Cooper.

I think that it's incredible that something like this allowed a fair amount of people to have a great time and allowed others to have future success using their earnings, but as I read some shitty stuff went down also. I agree with a few others that feel that those stories and the way they had an impact on those involved should be a book. It's an incredible part of our State's history and also a huge black eye for the Feds and who doesn't want to read a story about the "underdogs" making the powers that be look bad. Great f*#king story.

Having said all that it doesn't sound like that's what the OP's book is about and I'd like to take a crack at guessing it's primary focus. It sounds to me like the pilot was a complete bad ass Vietnam Vet who could fly the sh#t out of anything and when he got back he figured he'd take the best job he could find (doesn't sound like vets got treated very well when they got home), which in this case happened to be drug smuggling.

I don't know a whole lot about the topic and after a few google searches I couldn't find much about the history regarding aviation, but from what I read it looked like things didn't get going until the mid 70's. I also read that Pablo started around 75. I could be wrong, but it also appeared that the DEA didn't start doing air patrols until 75, but this guy who the OP is writing about began in the early 70's, so could he be the one that pioneered trafficking using aircraft and is it possible that's what the books about?
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 09:09am PT
Interesting hypothesis. Small loads were carried in aircraft dating to the middle and late sixties.

It very well could be that these guys pioneered the (unwise) use of large aircraft in the continental United States.

It also could very well be that they pioneered and ended the practice.

There was a light plane crash over the 805 freeway (precise date undetermined) and all the kids in the neighborhood were scampering around picking of free weed. No gas smell, no ice choppping required.

ValleySpectator

climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 11:04am PT
I have an unrelated question that I hope someone can help me with. I'm sorry to go off topic, but it seems like there are many in this thread that may be able to answer this.

Several years ago I took a day trip to Yosemite with my dad. There was a lot of water in the park that year. In fact I've never seen it it like that before. The rivers were raging. I want to say it was between 2010 - 2012.

On the way home we took 140 and I spotted what appeared to be a store and some other structures across the river. One of the things that stood out was a Volkswagen Squareback or it could have been a Notchback sitting there waiting for a rescue. It looked like a great place to wander around and possibly a cool photo spot if you could get across the river.

In 2014 (if not it was 2013) I took a drive up 140 to check this spot out and to see if I could get across the river (not much rain that year and things were pretty dry), but the structures and the car were gone. Is anyone familiar with this spot and could they shed some light on it? I did some googling and looked at gmaps and could only find info about an old hotel. Thanks in advance.
ValleySpectator

climber
Jul 6, 2016 - 12:13pm PT
Another question, this one is related to the topic.

I'm trying to get a better understanding of how some of the bales were contaminated with fuel and others weren't. It sounds like most of this stuff was on the surface floating around with the fuel. Did the fuel partially soak into the bales or was the fuel only concentrated in one area and clean bales were pulled from another area?

I've also read about people buying diving gear, but the article that was recently posted stated that the water was too murky and there was no visibility when the authorities made their attempt. Did the water clear between the time the authorities and the second set of divers went in? Did the initial group of beneficiaries dive down and pull & stash clean bales from the fuselage as well as other trinkets? If the water was still murky how did they avoid what sounds like was a rats nest of wire and scraps of aluminum waiting to slice you open?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 8, 2016 - 02:25pm PT
http://www.mensjournal.com/features/articles/the-legend-of-yosemites-dope-lake-w209503
labrat

Trad climber
Erik O. Auburn, CA
Jul 8, 2016 - 02:31pm PT
I find it strange that you are promoting this article. Are you still going to write the book? If so, do you have a timeframe?
WBraun

climber
Jul 8, 2016 - 02:49pm PT
He's writing the book.

When he's finished and it's published then you'll see.

Until then Americans must wait.

Americans can't wait anymore and lost their culture and patience for quality.

All Americans want now a daze is instant gratification.

Thus Americans have become,

STUPID .....
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 8, 2016 - 04:06pm PT
Yes, I'm still working on the book. "Working" is the operative word. The article in Men's Journal does not hit on many of the different parts of this story. For those of you within the climbing community that I have interviewed, you'll notice that the story is short on many subjects. This was on purpose.

Thank you WB for your insight. You hit the nail on the head once again
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 8, 2016 - 05:18pm PT
How many pages do you estimate the book will be, ric?

Any room for a jalapeño chapter? (note: meth). I think the weed is coming in via watermelon.

These folks used the "1" method. By land.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2016/07/07/border-agents-find-nearly-5m-in-meth-smuggled-in-cucumber-jalapeno-shipments/?cmpid=GoogleNewsEditorsPicks&google_editors_picks=true


Border agents find nearly $5M in meth smuggled in cucumber, jalapeño shipments







James Wilcox

Trad climber
Goleta/Virginia Lakes
Jul 9, 2016 - 08:42am PT
Replace the belts of ammo with a few climbing ropes and Jon would have fit in with most climbers. Ironic
Klimmer

Mountain climber
Jul 10, 2016 - 12:16am PT
Licky,


Looking forward to reading the exhaustive story in book form.


Very interesting article you posting a link too.


The whole story as close to the real authentic one as possible would make a very interesting movie I think. Lots of side stories to tie in and in the end a redemptive element to it as well. Got to have that element in Hollywood for success. People did really bad stuff, but used the money to turn their lives around for the better too, and left that illicit life. Not condoning it, but that's life sometimes ...


zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 10, 2016 - 07:28am PT
The Merry Pranksters welcome The Beatles (and the Hell's Angels & Klimner)








Lysergic Pranksters awaken TExas. Texas goes back to sleep.

cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Jul 10, 2016 - 09:54am PT
going to be an interesting book.
Steve in Tahoe

Mountain climber
Lake Tahoe, NV
Jul 10, 2016 - 11:41am PT
Zbrown, thanks for the info, I tracked it down. Should make for some interesting reading this lazy Sunday afternoon.
SteveD.
ValleySpectator

climber
Jul 11, 2016 - 12:56pm PT
Didn't mean to come off as impatient, I was just hoping for a little drip.

I'm anxiously awaiting this book and when it becomes a film, I'd like to throw my hat in the ring. I've got "the look" as they say.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 11, 2016 - 04:40pm PT
Only problem with such a comprehensive book is that only Largo is going to be able to pick it up to read it.

Yeah we know about the title, ez fix for a work still in progress. WE'll probably throw in Licky, zBrown & Sidmom as co-authors.


Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2016 - 04:51pm PT
There is already a video production company that is working on the docudrama. They've been at it for a few years now using my contacts and information
ValleySpectator

climber
Jul 11, 2016 - 06:31pm PT
Looking forward to that as well, but I was referring to a Hollywood version and since Hollywood is in reboot mode maybe it's time to reboot Cliffhanger, but make it a bit more factual this time around.

I also think a TV show after the film on a Hulu, Netflix, or Amazon platform based on the pilots life would be a great watch also.

Season 1: Vietnam
Season 2-?: Building the business
Final Season: The events leading up to the crash.

It can be pitched as the next Breaking Bad and I believe it could be as big. Top to bottom this is a rich story.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jul 11, 2016 - 07:16pm PT
Can anyone comment on the quality of the weed salvaged from the plane wreck...?
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 11, 2016 - 07:50pm PT
Oh yeah, I can see it now. The ST world masquerading as Animal Kingdom. Who is gonna play Ellen?

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 11, 2016 - 08:02pm PT
They have been shooting Animal Kingdom in my neighborhood, the Flying Pig and the pier got a cameo. No smurf sightings yet.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 11, 2016 - 08:07pm PT
But what of Ellen?

Unpublished booking photo.

ValleySpectator

climber
Jul 11, 2016 - 08:08pm PT
Johnny, it has been discussed throughout this thread. If I read correctly it ranged from primo to you may burn your eyebrows off due to some of it soaking in aviation fuel for at least a month or two.

If you haven't already. I recommend taking the time and reading through this entire thread. Took me 2 days. For me this thread read like a good book that I didn't want to put down.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jul 11, 2016 - 08:22pm PT
I smoked some of it but don't remember what it was like or what strain it was...guess it doesn't matter at this point in time...
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2016 - 08:52pm PT
And Valley....you ain't heard half of the story
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 12, 2016 - 08:13am PT
And ric....nor have any of the rest of us! :}

e.g. Didn't Glisky's employers have a company name and trademark. You know like Coronado Company, Brotherhood of Eternal Love, The Professors, The Mongols, The Billion Dollar Bust ...

The billion dollar bust
In July 2009, law enforcement authorities confiscated at least 330,000 marijuana plants — worth a staggering $1 billion — from fields in Fresno County, CA. "Operation Save Our Sierra" lasted more than a week and a half, and resulted in the arrest of 82 suspects with links to Mexican drug cartels. "Fresno County is roughly the size of Connecticut, and the drug traffickers target these areas because they know there is not that significant of a law-enforcement presence," Fresno County Sheriff Margaret Mims told CNN. "The chances of getting caught are slim." Or, rather, were.

The book (Las Vegas book) is that an awful lot more than that was not confiscated. Were there vacation homes in Reno/Tahoe? Nobody's talking.
ValleySpectator

climber
Jul 12, 2016 - 01:52pm PT
Rick, I'm sure I haven't and thank you for taking the time to document this. I'm sure it has grown well beyond what you've ever imagined, but that's the way it seems to go in regards to these types of things. If I still lived in San Jose I would have happily volunteered to help with whatever.

Johnny, someone mentioned that the first load out was Thai Sticks. Wish some of that old seed was laying around somewhere. I always hear from people wise beyond my years that what is out there now is completely different than what was.

The article in June mentioned that Pam had a dream regarding her husband and in the end her dream ended up being a reality. That detail reminded me of the story about the Owl that hooted in camp after Jack died. Powerful stuff and for the record I agree with those that feel that Yosemite is a magical place. To me Yosemite is the most beautiful place on our planet. No, I haven't traveled the world or been to every NP park, but I've seen pictures and nothing compares to Yosemite.

To all involved, if I ever step over the line please let me know and tell me to STFU. I'm a big boy and respect that this is a sensitive matter that a lot of folks would rather see fade into obscurity. I get it and when I make some of my suggestions regarding TV/Film it's not coming from a place of exploitation. I deeply respect all those involved.


Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 12, 2016 - 02:15pm PT
The Gobi Desert is the most beautiful place on earth, if you look inward.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 12, 2016 - 02:45pm PT

These fellers traveled the Gobi, but never found the bully until they looked right here at home in Tejas.


zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 12, 2016 - 03:06pm PT

Anyway, back on topic. Even the FBI calls it quits sometimes.

Now, after one of “the longest and most exhaustive investigations” in FBI history, the agency is finally moving on from the search for the infamous skyjacker known as D.B. Cooper, according to a statement released by the FBI.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2016 - 05:01pm PT
It is well documented that Glisky thought someone was messing with the left engine's oil line. When they hauled the plane out of the lake it contained a new replacement oil line for the left engine. When the plane was being loaded in Mexico for this trip, the mechanic mentioned to Glisky that there was an oil leak on the left engine. His reply was, "I know, we'll fix it after this flight."

There is evidence that shows that Glisky's flights were being fed to the DEA and US Customs. I have located two people that could have possibly been the one(s). So once again, this may not mean much to some, but to me it is worth the research to find out who the guy was and why.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Jul 17, 2016 - 06:24pm PT
Just publish the fricking book. Other than that is just cat spray.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2016 - 06:26pm PT
johntp...I've seen you, go wash your hair
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jul 17, 2016 - 06:31pm PT
The drugs have long since coursed thru many blood bloodstreams and the money, for better or worse, has been used up......ah, but the memories, the memories linger on.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Jul 17, 2016 - 06:35pm PT
licky, you have never seen me.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 17, 2016 - 06:50pm PT
I've always said "it's your book, take as long as you want". I still do.

Although David Bowie and Nate Thurmond are never going to read it, Mick Jagger's 8th kid will likely enjoy it.


For completists here the first seven - Georgia, James, Jade, Elizabeth, Lucas, Karis and Gabriel.


Melanie Hamrick - she's having his baby (he hopes). That is not one of the kids there with her.


ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Jul 17, 2016 - 07:16pm PT
you have never seen me
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 17, 2016 - 07:18pm PT
I won't bet money on it, but I think I saw your dog.

zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 17, 2016 - 07:47pm PT
Sharp eye Kevin.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
Jul 17, 2016 - 08:30pm PT
It's ironic that in the olden days there was so much paranoia involved with pot consumption and next November the evil weed may be legalized in Caulifornia...
zBrown

Ice climber
Jul 17, 2016 - 08:56pm PT
Very ironic.

I was saving this for later for my 'pot gone wrong' response, but ...

One of my buddies, BH, a very bright guy in first/second year of college, got busted for one joint. He was on track to become a dentist. In the good old days a pot bust disqualified you from "operating" on people's teeth.

He became a small time dealer thereafter, eventually, got a 'normal' job.

Would have been an excellent dentist.


Amen for one of them.


[Click to View YouTube Video]

ValleySpectator

climber
Jul 22, 2016 - 01:07pm PT
[[Click to View YouTube Video]
Sid Mo

climber
Sep 14, 2016 - 09:44pm PT
What,the,phuck?
Do you park bums need another damn jump start, yet again? Hookup the cables and begin the rants. You bore the world with more greasemonkey trivia about plane engines and the thread dies, yet again. YAWN! I told a gal about this stupid thread and she wondered if you'd hit me again. I said maybe the millions of minions would but don't count on the star Licky to lick me yet again. So let's see. After hearing the story on NPR I was bemused. As was she. Being a lady, she pondered "if that guy was living in the rocks behind a campground, where did he shower?" I told her we had showers in Curry Boystown and the W.O.B.s had 'em, but you cooldudes in Camp Phour had a sink. Maybe thats why y'all smelled as ripe as a pbj left out on a ledge for a week. Hygiene wasn't in great supply on the Sunnyside of the street but I heard the Lodge honeys didn't mind a little stench. Not so in the Terrace. Yeah we had washers, dryers, and after the plane, blenders and coffeegrinders. Life was good on the secretside. Sorry y'all had rangers chasing you into the boulderfields. Actually I'm not. You bums kept the heat off Curry. Thanx.
Sid Mo

climber
Sep 14, 2016 - 10:47pm PT
I don't know. What do you want? Did any assbite ever ask you such a stupid question? And better yet, why do you care? Are my rants any more moronic than yours, or his, or his? I hate posers like Licky posing as what they aint never gonna be. All this for a dead man's wife? Please! Sometimes when you see a button you just gotta push it. I guess that's it. (I'm not) sorry if I pushed yours. Did it hurt you to read it? Are your eyes sore now? If I tell you to phuck off will you?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2016 - 01:09am PT
Sid Mo....my offer for a cup of coffee to discuss this is still open.
Sid Mo

climber
Sep 15, 2016 - 02:07am PT
Licky's caffeinated tonight, burning the midnight oil as he crosses T's and dots I's. He's itching to finish the book under schedule. Gotta beat the fellas filming the movie to collect on a bet. Someone fetch him another cup of coffee fast.
Sula

Trad climber
Pennsylvania
Sep 15, 2016 - 06:08am PT
my offer for a cup of coffee to discuss this is still open
He may have already had one too many.
Sid Mo

climber
Sep 15, 2016 - 08:35am PT
Maybe there's Kahlua in his cup.
That's one of the things I got hip to after the plane when we could afford luxuries.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 15, 2016 - 08:40am PT
Sid, there are treatments for OCD.
Sid Mo

climber
Sep 15, 2016 - 11:59am PT
Oh Reilly,
Really?
Can you recommend a doctor, perhaps one that helped you? I'd there's pills that can cure my ills I want 'em. I ran out of fuelsoaked buds a while back and haven't been right since. Can you meet me behind the Safeway after dark and share some of your meds? What do you take, Oxys or are Vicodins enough to sooth your nerves? Ill pay dearly - I'm still flush with airplane cash. Thanks so much for caring. You are indeed a good soul. Your parents must be very proud of their boy.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 15, 2016 - 02:15pm PT
Can you recommend a doctor, perhaps one that helped you?

Sadly, no. I've learned to live with my obsession of putting my left boot
on first. It's been tough, but when it becomes overwhelming I just think
of Nancy Reagan and it passes. Besides, I don't think it compares with
being obsessed about some guy who is writing a book. That's just plain
weird. Prolly no treatment for that although you could try thinking of
Nancy Reagan.
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2016 - 12:24am PT
Sid mo...face facts. You were never there, your stories are nothing more than a repeat of those that were there. You've been out'd way too many times to make it worth anyone's while, much less mine. You'll not figure into the book unless you write your own. WHAO...maybe that's it....sid mo...why haven't you started on your own book. You've been there, you have the experience, you know the players............write your own damned book!

Ya think he can?
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 17, 2016 - 08:01am PT
(rubbing her hands) Come out, damned spot! Out, I command you! One, two. OK, it’s time to do it now.—Hell is murky!
-L MacBeth
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Denver CO
Sep 18, 2016 - 11:18am PT
The part of the story that's not funny is the death of Jack Dorn. Did this mystery ever get solved?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 18, 2016 - 08:41pm PT
Don....I think I have proven that Dorn died by mistake on his part. He did not have "help". I'll try to lay it out for you and others that believe he was pushed over the edge.

Dorn was asked to join the rescue at 3am by Craig Patterson when Patterson was assigned to put together a six man team to rescue two climbers. It was raining hard when the team started up the trail. For someone to have pushed Dorn off of the trail, he'd have to have 1) Known Dorn was going to be on this rescue, 2) sneaked up the trail in advance and take a hiding position 3) known which of the six in the rescue was Dorn 4) push Dorn off the trail and re-hide until the rescue was completed and sneak back down to the Valley undiscovered while a major investigation regarding Dorn's death was underway.

Some have said that Dorn was drunk the night before. The autopsy and toxicology reports showed no alcohol or drugs were in his system. He was straight arrow.

There was a formal investigation into Dorn's death and nothing came up that would lead anyone to think it was nothing less than an accident. Of course there are those that will claim that an investigation by the Feds proves nothing, but then again no one has enlisted the help of a private investigator to prove other wise. Its all we have to go on.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Denver CO
Sep 19, 2016 - 07:20am PT
That's good you were able to disprove the story that he was drunk. Were the people who investigated the death aware of his involvement in the airplane marijuana?
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Sep 19, 2016 - 09:05am PT
Wow, nine years later and this blog is still dragging a dead horse around in a body bag.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Denver CO
Sep 19, 2016 - 10:23am PT
What was he thinking, to keep a drug dealer's address book? That may very well have been what did him in.
kief

Trad climber
east side
Sep 19, 2016 - 11:17am PT
Tim Setnicka's report to the AAJ on the rescue operation the night Jack died says that two climbers became hypothermic after it began to rain when they were halfway up the first pitch above the Yosemite Point Buttress pedestal.

That was fairly soon after dark from the sound of it, though the time isn't specified. Several hours passed before the YOSAR team started up the falls trail, and Tim doesn't mention the rescuers hiking in rain or the trail being slippery. I was in the Valley that night too and I'm pretty sure that if it had rained for hours that night I would have wondered the next day if it contributed to Jack's death. Like Kevin, it didn't cross my mind. So my guess is that the rain lasted long enough to chill a couple of climbers who were outfitted mostly in cotton (and who were stuck because their rope jammed). But that doesn't mean it caused trouble for YOSAR.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 19, 2016 - 11:25am PT
He didn't mention calling some of the numbers in the book and offering it for sale?
What else could have scared him? And how did he think they would know he had it?
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Denver CO
Sep 19, 2016 - 07:11pm PT
If a lot of people knew he had the address book, and knew him by name, it's not surprising it got back to the actual owners of the crashed marijuana. Any number of them could have tried to sell their airplane marijuana to the underworld, and tipped off some ruthless people.

But what could he do? No point getting rid of it, since the narcos would still think he had it. Going to the police would have meant going to jail. I think their real interest would have been in the address book itself. Presumably, it was never recovered.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 19, 2016 - 07:29pm PT
Perhaps Ric can comment on just how many folks tried to bring up Jon Glisky's body without revealing too much.





The salvage crew found Glisky's body submerged in the cockpit. Courtesy Rick Schloss

and I suppose God was his Co-Pilot?

Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2016 - 10:22pm PT
The plane and bodies were recovered in June 1977. They'd been in the lake for months and not a pretty picture, but I have them. It was a salvage company out of San Jose that got the contract to haul out the plane. To my knowledge, no one else attempted to bring the plane out of the lake.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 20, 2016 - 08:09am PT
Telling?

chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Sep 20, 2016 - 02:26pm PT
My neighbor was shot to death by his own brother, armed with an SKS assault rifle on Saturday Sept 17, 2016 in Linda Ca, Yuba county. According to the Appeal Democrat, the slaying was the result of an unconfirmed robbery or dispute about a marijuana grow. Furthermore, the authorities are saying methamphetamine was involved. The glamour and intrigue of marijuana fade quickly when considered against the backdrop of events like that, which occur all too frequently. The deceased is survived by his wife and three young children.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 20, 2016 - 03:13pm PT
I've mentioned this type of thing before in this thread. A long time before 1977 two of my associates and a guy I didn't know went to prison for a death that occurred during a gone south drug deal.

One guy is out and living around the area. The other was himself killed as the result of another bad deal.

The third guy, I do not know about. My impression is that the two I knew put the murder on him.

This was back in the days when dealing wasn't nearly as dangerous.

Ric may yet document how 'good things' happened in the sorry tale at hand.







Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 21, 2016 - 11:05pm PT
At least Chainsaw is consistent. His rants have never been confined to a straight line
Caveman

climber
Cumberland Plateau
Sep 22, 2016 - 03:51am PT
Chainsaw, I guess alcohol is not on your radar. Evil crap involving cannabis is not about the intrigue and glamor of it but rather the nature of the bottom dwellers that exploit the stuff for monetary gain. US government being one of those. Yankee's are all about money.




Edit to add: I'm not referring to Mr. Glisky above. He was just using his skills to his advantage. The evil ones would be the governing bodies that set the whole thing in motion (make it illegal) and the people that pressure others for control. Glisky would fly it but IMHO I don't think he would kill for it. Chainsaw may blame the substance but it is really the quality of people involved.
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Oct 5, 2016 - 08:19pm PT
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 5, 2016 - 09:07pm PT
Winter reruns, eh!

Mayberry, RFD

chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Oct 6, 2016 - 02:39am PT
So what brought the plane down caveman? It didnt crash because of skill. And there was plenty of fuel onboard. More than one would expect if it really flew from another continent. And where was it headed?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 8, 2016 - 10:55pm PT
Chainsaw....its pretty basic. Gravity was the culprit


How'm I doing z?
Sid Mo

climber
Oct 18, 2016 - 01:14pm PT
So now we know, thanks to Lick's dogged investigative journalism, why the plane crashed. Turns out it was due to this complicated scientifical process called gravity. Who woulda thunk it? What genius Licky,did an apple fall on your noggin? Good thing you were wearing your climbing helmet. So now all the years of effort are paying off, and I must apologize for my previous criticism. Gravity! Brilliant!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Oct 18, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
So.......... How's the book coming along?
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 18, 2016 - 01:55pm PT
I'm fine. Yourself?

Oh wait.

You're doing fine Ric.

We could trot out the ranger interview any time you're ready.

Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 23, 2016 - 11:07pm PT
z....you've been in "touch"
zBrown

Ice climber
Nov 21, 2016 - 03:46pm PT
Shades of Deja Vu


[Click to View YouTube Video]
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Nov 22, 2016 - 03:22pm PT
What sorta sighting is this
.

Merry thanksgiving
Retiring to the taco stand
Sid Mo

climber
Dec 27, 2016 - 06:57pm PT
What? Merry Thanksgiving? After Xmas and at NYE that's the latest you Lickthreaders have offered? Lemme guess - you've all given up on our gearless leader as well? Why? He's been so forthcoming and informative before. Surely he's just dotting his I's and crossing his T's on the final draft. Or dabbing his eyes and gnashing his teeth perhaps. Licky's drowning in verbiage. He can't close the deal.

Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 30, 2016 - 08:12pm PT
Sid mo...for God's sake renew your prescription!
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Dec 31, 2016 - 12:09am PT
Moreover, as with plane crashes, falling itself is rarely problematic—it’s the sudden impact with a ledge, flake, or corner that causes injury. Be aware of such obstacles before making the decision to back-clean or run it out.

From-Danger Zones: The Nose - Accidents On El Cap's Most Popular Route
08-Sep-2015
By Joel Peach

Peachy choice of words.
Sid Mo

climber
Jan 1, 2017 - 11:34pm PT
Ah, once again Licky is roused from hibernation by a pesky troll. He hasn't the time to write or publish, but can squeeze time out of his busy schedule to attack, disparage and impugn. Me. As if my infernal annoyance was truly impacting his ability to perform. He want a scapegoat for his shame but my happypill refills have no relevance in this debate. He's failed in his bid to be a writer and now must choke on a gullletful of crow. If only he'd swallowed his foolish pride instead. Pass the Xanax.
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Jan 2, 2017 - 11:59am PT
Its been more than ten years and still no book. Perhaps there wont be a book. Seems to me that Licky is gathering this information for another purpose.....
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 2, 2017 - 12:04pm PT
It's gonna be self-published, if it is published.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jan 2, 2017 - 12:08pm PT
Licky has published some of his material, this thread was better than any book. It has now been reduced to a monthly bump so licky can bitch slap sidmo
TYeary

Social climber
State of decay
Jan 2, 2017 - 07:52pm PT
Ain't gonna be no book because most who were there, in my opinion, really don't want there names revealed, for various reasons. Otherwise they would have piped up and staked a claim. And there are a few not with us anymore as well. Without names, you loose a big chunk of the draw from your primary target audience. just my two cents worth.
TY

Sid Mo

climber
Jan 7, 2017 - 08:07pm PT
Hey Chainsaw. Licky thinks I'm you - or you're me. And he worries about shyt like who's who instead of what's what. And what is what is that TrickyLicky never planned to write a book (or he'd have published by now.) What he is up to I still can't figure out. But it must be bullshyt or he'd tell us. The fact that, after a decade plus of this charade, we still don't have either a clue to his motive or faith that it's legitimate speaks volumes about his disengenuousness. Or a book. He's a phony, a poser and NOT a writer. But you know that, don't you?
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Jan 7, 2017 - 08:18pm PT
Geezuz. Doesn't anybody have writer's block? I've done the same thing. Get all excited about some historical research I've done, talked a little big about putting out a book and then just fallen into despair when it comes to putting pencil to paper. Research is the only thing that inspires me and is exciting. The big let down is when you realize there ain't gonna be no book coming out of me. But that's no crime. Just because you talked big doesn't mean you owe it to anybody to complete something. I've still got rooms in my house that haven't been touched in decades. He doesn't owe anybody anything.

Arne
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Jan 7, 2017 - 08:22pm PT
Its been more than ten years and still no book.

Just click on the "First" button at the top of any page of this thread and you'll see that it is not ten years, but almost twelve.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Jan 7, 2017 - 08:23pm PT
And Skidmark. You should just continue sliding down the hole I sent you towards after leaving my anus; the best place youve ever known. Now go.
Sid Mo

climber
Jan 7, 2017 - 08:49pm PT
Hey ski bummy, if there's a guy crawling out of your butt check his ID cause he ain't me. See, I've like got a girlfriend and stuff. She won't let me move to Montana and turn all gay like you. Maybe you can be a dental floss tycoon there, but here you're just another queer. And one in bed with Licky. Better get tested, butt-buddy. And if you get writers block like Licky take your time responding. We don't care what you faggots think or why you stink. Something to do with that infected "anus" perhaps.
Sid Mo

climber
Jan 7, 2017 - 08:56pm PT
Look at his profile photo. No wonder he only skis. He's like all homo and stuff.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 7, 2017 - 08:59pm PT
Is there going to be a forty year reunion?

I'd suggest holding off until the fiftieth!

By then it will be possible to 3D print memorabilia and the book will be in it's third re-printing and most here will be no longer able to read, let alone type or wipe themselvex
Sid Mo

climber
Jan 7, 2017 - 09:25pm PT
WHAT PHUCKING BOOK? Thought we told ya there ain't gonna be no book. Not about the plane and not penned by Licker. Never. No ink will be shed on this topic by the moron who started this threadbare blog. Hes lying to you, me, Lottie, Dottie and Everybody. Figure it out folks. He's no more a writer than he is a climber. Look the whole appeal of the plane story is that an "illegal" substance of value in quantity was found by poor people. Well it's no longer illegal. So a generation of kids will wonder what all the fuss was all about. A pot plane going down will be no more interesting than if a potato truck does an endo on Hwy 99. YAWN!!!!!!!!
Sid Mo

climber
Jan 7, 2017 - 09:36pm PT
And before you hipster haters blast me as homophobic, checkout Skibummy's profile pic full size. Is that photo not gay? Not surprising that he alludes to things coming out of his "anus." must be the 'ludes. 714 and out.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 8, 2017 - 07:42am PT
Sid...I see a male swimmer about to dive into a frigid lake...Lake Merced...?
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Jan 8, 2017 - 07:59am PT
Sorry Sid; few beers last night. Don't sweat it, I'm not attracted to you.

Lake MacDonald. Yeah it's cold
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 8, 2017 - 08:11am PT
Now ^that's^ some funny shit

Warbler, I'd say that's some sad pathetic sh!t driven by some strange deep-seated anger.
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Jan 8, 2017 - 09:11am PT
The post I made about law enforcement who was reading about the 77 crash on the taco may have been deleted. I was directly contacted by a Tuolemne co detective when I revealed that the pot was actually grown in california. The story that is told in Stanislaus is that the growers always bagged their harvest to look like it came from south of the border to protect themselves if their couriers get caught. You could buy those sacks at Eucalyptus records in Davis or Berkely. This is a murder investigation and will be until it gets solved. Ask people who live around the Columbia airport near Sonora. They will confirm local lore that the load originated in california and was flewn out of Columbia airport. If the plane really came from south of the border then: why was it full of fuel? How did it avoid radar to enter US airspace during the high terror alert that occurred when the hostages were taken in Iran? If noone was fighting (shooting) in the cockpit then why did it crash? I was advised by an army ranger who was a former us marshal that the licky book thing on supertaco is likely a federal murder investigation. I never claimed to be at the lake. I was nine years old. I remember the YMCA camp run by valley climbers in curry village ci1977 because I was a camper there. Those guys flaked and didnt run any of the activities we were promised. Instead, they took off and went climbing and got stoned all day while unsupervised children ran amok. That was the year that toothpaste and chapstick were banned in the park because a bear attacked a girl wearing cherry chapstick. Dont believe a word that licky says. HE is the real troll here, and many of us fell for his bullsh#t.
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Jan 8, 2017 - 09:16am PT
If you want to, ask licky about road 96A, the wharehouse, the king air and the osprey. Dangerous Dan and the Hotdogger. Now those planes were going south and back and they got caught. Their cargo wasnt green though.
Sid Mo

climber
Jan 9, 2017 - 01:23am PT
Wonder how Lick responds to Saw's pointed points. Bet he attacks my moronic and sophmoric unsubstantive rants and ignores this latest cord of firewood Chainsaw cut for him to burn through - probably can't reply without clearing it with his superiors. I doubt they let Rittle Licky play with matches. 
But Timidity can't let go of the whole jack off handjob thing. Even if he was right jackass did me a favor by keeping her habits off my tab. Let him pay her gratuity. And let Little Timmy scurry up safely on his well-belayed top rope. And then ride his bike home with those adorable training wheels. Don't forget your helmet son. 
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Jan 9, 2017 - 10:06am PT
The Shadow Knows
Barbarian

climber
Jan 10, 2017 - 08:49am PT
How did it avoid radar to enter US airspace during the high terror alert that occurred when the hostages were taken in Iran?

Just to reset your calendar. The hostages were taken on Nov. 4, 1979. The plane crashed in 1977.

My analysis concludes that the plane most likely avoided the increased radar scrutiny from that terror alert by flying (and crashing) two years prior to the Iran Embassy takeover.

Carry on.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 10, 2017 - 08:51am PT
Back then it didn't take a Bob Hoover to fly under the radar.
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Jan 10, 2017 - 03:22pm PT
We were on high alert long before the hostages were taken. Those were the days of many hijackings. Yes the hostages were taken after the crash. But the Ayatola Khomeni was well into his game. Was the planes transponder disabled? Where they flying VFR without VOR navigation? Nav radio VOR off? Just wingin it along the coast? Hmmmm
zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 10, 2017 - 08:20pm PT
In semi-private communications, Ric has told me he's altering his schedule to get the book out sooner so that nobody has to wade through the boring sheeit that's getting posted here these days.


Scavengers on the Lower Merced Pass lake should have invested in some of the technology pioneered by the CC.



This mofo made more money than the whole group of folks involved in the 1977 affair combined ever even dreamed of, even when high. Musta been a fag, eh?




Redeeming social value of drug-running? Ask some of the really successful practitioners. If they don't be dead.




Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 10, 2017 - 11:05pm PT
Was the planes transponder disabled? Where they flying VFR without VOR navigation? Nav radio VOR off?

Of course the transponder was off, but that was legal back then. I can't believe they weren't using every nav aid available as they were pros and nav aids aren't gonna give you away. They weren't lost they just had a catastrophic mechanical or structural failure.
Sid Mo

climber
Jan 10, 2017 - 11:36pm PT
WHAT?!
Licky's "altering his schedule" just to shut us up? What about our First Amendment rights? Why do y'all s'pose Ole Lick done been rattlin' our cages - fer fun? He couldn't publish 'cause he ain't altered yet! Figgered it had to be sumpin oddball.

After Licky alters, will he publish in, uh, hardback?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 15, 2017 - 01:45am PT
Hey Chain....remember Howard Parker from the Department of Justice?
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Jan 15, 2017 - 09:52am PT
I do remember him. As I recall, he is the one who contacted me. Ironically, he has the same name as the founder of the Grateful Dead's sound company Ultrasound. The man is a friend of mine, Howard Parker of Sheep Ranch Ca Calavarass county.
Super Sleuth

Ice climber
New York City, NY
Jan 25, 2017 - 05:13pm PT
anybody hear this?

http://thedollop.libsyn.com/236-dope-lake

This podcast did a great job of telling a story about the crash I thought was a bit of fresh air.

In the final moments of the podcast they discuss what happened with some of the folks involved, and they mention how it could be that people who benefited greatly (even slight benefits fostered some true ingenuity in certain beneficiaries of the crashes payload) in turn grew to be famous, in at least one sense, and real business that stemmed from the crash.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jan 25, 2017 - 05:50pm PT
[quote]anybody hear this?

http://thedollop.libsyn.com/236-dope-lake[/quote]
Not bad if you skip the first 5 minutes
zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 25, 2017 - 07:42pm PT
Ballad of Scavenger Lake

The rats have got your flour
Bad blood it got your mare
The rats have got your flour
Bad blood it got your mare
If there's anyone that knows
Is there anyone that cares?
-hBrown
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Apr 16, 2017 - 07:42pm PT
Bump. Forty years!
Sid Mo

climber
Apr 19, 2017 - 08:48am PT
The thread is dead. Who's grateful for that?
Sid Mo

climber
Apr 21, 2017 - 08:02am PT
You ARE confused now Timidity. I had a NF Ibex I bought, with cash, way before the crash. Early seventies I used a blue Ibex until the cross-stitch baffle broke. I returned it to NF in Berkeley. The dude working that weekday was cool. He was a big shot filling in for an underling and comped me a new Ibex because mine was so dirty. Dirty because I used it so long. Used it so long because I didn't steal your buddy's bag. Didn't know him never heard of him til now. Definitely didn't camp or climb with him. Anyway, maybe somebody else remembers the NF guy, he was missing a thumb. Told me he did a lot of Alpine climbing and had a hard time pulling ropes (that would be on account of the thumb, morons). Couldn't grip right. That conversation always stuck in my mind. Mine still works. Yours is suspect, and your little friend's too. Anyway I had to settle fora burgundy color to make the trade, and missed the cool blue of the old one but hey, it was free and a top-line bag to boot. Oh did I steal his boots too? Maybe you sleep around in other dudes stinkbags but I have never in my life borrowed or stole somebody else's nasty-ass sleeping bag YOU PHUCKING MORON! How damn stupid are you buttwipe? I had bucks back then. Curry Housing with sheets and blankets. Showers daily. Good life. Point your wagging finger of shame elsewhere or stick it up your butt. Let me hear it from your imaginary friend. Maybe he'll help you, sticking your finger up your butt.
Sid Mo

climber
Apr 21, 2017 - 08:17am PT
Wait a minute. I just reread that sh#t you wrote. "Danny" had "good adventures" climbing with ME? Danny WHO? What routes did we do and when? Who led what pitches? He's a liar or deluded like you. I don't know who he is. Where was he from? Where did he know me from? I didn't climb with a lot of good climbers because I liked leading all the pitches. Who was this dweeb, one of my belay slaves? I don't think so. How was it that I stole his bag and he didn't notice? Did I slip it in my pocket unnoticed? Wouldn't fit. Whos bag did he sleep in after that?

Why didn't he confront me then? He waits 40 years to whine about it? Did we climb again after the alleged theft? If your friends homeless and needs a bag why don't you buy him one?
Sid Mo

climber
Apr 21, 2017 - 08:31am PT
Besides, I hate those tapered leg liteweight sissybags you pussies all used then to save a couple of ounces. With all the hardware and ropes I was packing around it wasn't packing lite, idiot. A man needs room to move around in his sleep. Sometimes I had a lil gal to fit in there. Now that was the first clue that y'all are lying. How in the phuck could I ever fit in that little fartsack you call a Chrysalis? No, I slept in NF gear,but a manly Ibex, not a gayly "Chrysalis" - WTF does that mean anyway? TimidTopRope you are a moron and a liar, but with Danny you gays are in good company.
Sid Mo

climber
Apr 21, 2017 - 08:35am PT
Yeah that guy was way cool. I always looked up to Glacier climbers, literally and figuratively. They were tougher than we were that's for sure. The Valley was nothing compared to frozen crevasses and stuff like that. I loved going to Berkeley back then, they had that NF outlet store and Sierra Designs and REI. But your buddy was cool thanks to him again!
Sid Mo

climber
Apr 21, 2017 - 09:26am PT
This?
Sid Mo

climber
Apr 21, 2017 - 09:29am PT


Or this?

No that's not me but it's my bag and it's NOT a sissyChrysalis
Sid Mo

climber
Apr 21, 2017 - 09:30am PT
You idiot. I'd never sleep in a girls bag. Bed but not bag.
AE

climber
Boulder, CO
May 20, 2017 - 07:00pm PT
NEWS FLASH: Press Release
Literary icon and mountaineering legend Jon Krakauer, after laboring for nearly 4 1/2 weeks exhaustively researching every possible lead, is rumored to be on the verge of releasing his latest revelatory tome which promises to tell every aspect of the notorious drug plane crash in Yosemite Valley, in 1977. "Into and Out of Thin Ice" will hit the stands in conjunction with the fortieth anniversary of the crash, along with the announcement of the blockbuster tie-in film to feature James Brolin as the doomed pilot of the craft. Dwayne Johnson will play a prominent role as John Largo Long.
"It's a mystery to me why no one else has explored the rich and deep story surrounding the dark and secretive drug smuggling culture, the crash, the lives of all involved before and after, the rumors of fortunes made and lost," Krakauer is supposed to have said to anyone who'd listen. "This was a tale begging to be told, and the earnings from the film tie-in should be like ten thousand times what the poor smugglers stood to make. Of course the book will be delving far more deeply into such arcane areas like the metallurgy of the oil pump, whether the sunglasses may have been counterfeit, thus contributing to the crash itself. Many will say it is a waste of time, so long after the fact, but I say no, 1,473 pages is not one too many, in service of perhaps the greatest marginally mountaineering related mystery (with remotely tangential possible hints of murders and stuff) ever to be pandered to the non-climbing populace."
- at long last Sidmo can sleep well tonight.
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
May 20, 2017 - 09:12pm PT
You have to troll with downriggers to catch bottomfish! Let the carp come forth.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
May 20, 2017 - 09:14pm PT
Yawn . . .
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
May 20, 2017 - 09:26pm PT
PLPLLLLPPTHHH! Opps, I better wipe after that..... Fawk this turdly stinkthread!
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
May 20, 2017 - 09:51pm PT
The death of a thread is not a pretty sight.
WBraun

climber
May 20, 2017 - 10:20pm PT
The book has been written.

It just hasn't been put on paper.

Americans remain stoopid ........
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 20, 2017 - 10:55pm PT
There was a plane crash?
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
May 21, 2017 - 05:03am PT
Idiot's holding up a Unimog sleeping bag, not an Ibex.
--A no-thumb guy from NF what knows his bags.

Also, for what it's worth, I don't recall any of this story and I deny any involvement.

And that Colombian weed? Hey, for what it's worth, that sh#t was not worth much simply because it did not stay lit.

And we're all idiots for keeping this thread alive.

I'd never have named a cat Sidmo, either.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
May 21, 2017 - 06:57am PT
I've named a cat, climbed in the ditch WAY back,
id'a been seen as work as folks dropped me off & didn't come back

The cat, The Commune, Co-Eds & Pay-Phones

I named a cat and climbed in the ditch way back, id'a been seen as work,
Left off for a day, they, just didn't come back, I camped.
living & learning - A dorm room and pay phones,

1st lets get this in here:



Barry's Resoles
41585 Auberry Road
Auberry, CA 93602

559-855-4511




Two Chillie Katmandu *

The bunk was good to take-with, - it saved - sputtered out

Not Flame out. - ( like when it was fresh, ?no that's a bad word )

Moist - when it smelled and sparked out, the 1sty din'stay lit

Corncob To City Streets,

Top of the hill, bottom of the heap

Two sacks, at least , three meals,

the bulk paid-off a house note or two.

Gunk : . . .Gackweed,
Was easy to pass three 'trays' in the park, 30. to 50 bucks.

This seems both the time and place I was never there neither

Well, not in time or space.



* The Name Of The Cat.





ZB;!
"SUICIDE KNOB?

Cool , tool, IF it folded back out of the way,
Bad,
it would catch on a low hanging arm-hole of a tee-shirt, at half way thru a turning maneuver
Worse yet: in crashes, the ball acted like a blunt post,
that fat round bump, becomes a Puji stick . . . in a crash. . .
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/why-are-suicide-knobs-called-so.321496/
Sid Mo

climber
May 24, 2017 - 07:35am PT
Well that ain't me neither, some brown haired hippie, I was blonder. BUT it sure looks like an
Ibex, wide legroom down the length of the bag like the Ibex. Sorry I didn't get a photo of the bag itself but I didn't know I'd be accused of it's theft or of another crime other than the usual sin crimes we all committed (that have been made quasi-legal of late.) So let this be the last stupid divergence from the plane story if the equally stupid thread somehow lives, although at some point it should drown from it's own weight. One thing for sure, like I said all along, Licky ain't writin' no phuckin' book. What he is really up to is anybody's guess. Maybe a narcissist, maybe a narc, it don't really matter. He's a phony who never climbed a pitch unless it was on a toprope in an indoor gym, and yet he's passing judgement on granite junkies that were minding their own business back in the day. Licky's not worthy enough to lick our boots, nor our stinky moldy EBs. Phuck him.
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
May 24, 2017 - 06:25pm PT
I bought this minus twenty sleepingbag from REI. It was REI brand. It was warm as heck! I could sleep in February at the Pinons a la Eastside when the beer froze in four hours.... But the fabrick ripped open all the time and feathers went everywhere. I woulda been cold were it not for the duct tape. Eventually I added HVAC tape... I still use it cuz Im never cold when I got it. Half of the filll is feathers, not down..... Pics to come
majo

climber
May 29, 2017 - 11:55am PT
Whats this about a plane full of pot landing in a Yosemite Lake?
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
May 29, 2017 - 04:04pm PT
Its about a painful plantar wart that keeps growing back.
zBrown

Ice climber
May 29, 2017 - 10:40pm PT
Anyone resd
a good excert lately?
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jul 19, 2017 - 10:02pm PT
Is Licky still around? Is he still working on the book or is this dead?
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Jul 19, 2017 - 10:20pm PT
In the Alpinist. June 1, 2017. http://www.alpinist.com/doc/ALP20/short-pitches-chopping-M-red-rocks-yosemite


Enter Rick Schloss, the latest would-be chronicler, whose 2005 post on www.supertopo.com, announcing his plan to coauthor a nonfiction book on the incident with the pilot's widow, set off a maelstrom of replies. The ensuing two-year thread has become a novel in itself, with cyber-reunions of old Camp 4 friends, paranoid speculations about authorities monitoring the site and nostalgic paens to the wild summer of the Yosemite "Gold Rush." Behind it all the aspiring author has kept a shadowy, persistent presence, commenting on the various arguments, dropping hints about new facts to be revealed in his book, but refusing to give his proof before publication.

Over the telephone, Schloss tells us his own story: he's a fifty-seven-year-old salesman of German industrial equipment, who'd learned to climb in the military and done some soloing in Yosemite, in lug boots, without a guidebook. The pilot's widow, an old high-school friend, had asked him to help her contact the climbing community. Since Schloss had no background in writing or in journalism, his brother, a former detective, taught him the basics of conducting interviews and warned him to be scrupulous when corroborating witness' statements. He soon became intrigued with sifting through the decades of myths to find the "truth"—and equally fascinated by the endless self-perpetuation of the fictitious accounts. Having observed how talking about a far-fetched rumor long enough makes it seem true, he's aware that he's now considered on the forum to be a sort of authority and that he could easily start his own rumors.

As jittery sounding, in some ways, as his Internet correspondents, Schloss won't reveal the name of his agent, his publisher, the title of his book, or the date of publication, but assures us in a compassionate tone that many people want to know what he knows and that all will soon be revealed, perhaps not long after we go to press.

On the other hand, when asked about his motivations, Schloss is effusive. "The truth is important, period. You either write fiction or you don't. Do you write what's true or what someone told you is true—like how I'm telling you all this is true on the phone?"
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 3, 2017 - 07:53pm PT
Truth, error, or fake news? Anyone see the issues?

This is what 12 years of research have shown me that occurs when every day people try to retell the story. Some get it right, some get it slightly cattywampus, and a few spew total BS. This makes it very difficult to post or write about the event until I've uncovered the real story to MY satisfaction, not people like Sidmo.
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 3, 2017 - 08:11pm PT
Whew! I thought for a minute it said //2017 Airplane Crash in Yosemite.
//
I guess The Shadow knows, eh.

BTW, don't go sayin that stuff I ordered is in the mail.

If it doesn't get here soon I'm gonna have to cancel negotiations for our joint appeance on the game show.


BTW postscript, they are balking at limiting the categories to just two.

I'll take either FAMOUS WHITE BOY DRUG RINGS OF THESEVENTIES

or

YOSEMITE NP PLANE CRASHES

does sound kinda dumb.

Maybe we should bone up on RUSSIAN URANIUM DEALS??






Sid Mo

climber
Aug 20, 2017 - 07:08pm PT
Some dude writes that he is " jittery sounding" and Lick posts another vague blast at poor ol' SidMo. Wonder what's up with that?
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 20, 2017 - 10:45pm PT
How about a Sidmo-Licky smack down-fest in Las Vegas whilst we wait for the publication of their books and sequels.

Fully 40 years after the "last tango at the lake", folks are now smuggling drogas via semi pilotless airplanes (drones) to the benefit of whom???
Sid Mo

climber
Aug 24, 2017 - 07:56pm PT
Jittery-sounding
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 1, 2017 - 10:31pm PT
My latest tact is that there was someone that wanted the plane to crash and someone that wanted the pilots to die. I have so far unearthed evidence that lead to this. It opens up a ton more questions as well as a list of people that were of interest.
Sid Mo

climber
Sep 10, 2017 - 08:59pm PT
Was it me Licky? Did the ol' SidMo gum up the fuel tank? Inquiring minds want to know what "really happened" more than they want to know the truth, 'cause WE CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH. I can't recall if I'm at fault because my mind was clouded by all that pot I was smokin. I was all "hopped up on drugs" and let me tell ya, that Mari J Wanna is some bitch. She took my brain and f*#ked it all kinds of up. So what do I know? I don't even know what I don't know - but Licky does. He's so smart. He's figgerin it all out and gonna write it all down in a book or something. I'm learning to read now in an online class so I can learn all Licky cares to teach us whenever he -(what is it writers do again? Oh yeah I remember) - publishes.
Sid Mo

climber
Sep 12, 2017 - 11:05pm PT
What if Trump bans and burns all books before Licky publishes? Will he still be considered a "writer" for "researching the story" and thrown in prison with all the rest? Or will they give him a pass for voting Republican?
chainsaw

Trad climber
CA
Sep 13, 2017 - 03:46am PT
Twelve years ago, I shared the local Tuolumne County version of the legend, told by old-timers at the Avery Ranch, in which the co-pilot shot the pilot to steal the load. Licky says Im trolling. Now twelve years later he brings up this murder conspiracy theory. As I said before, the local lore is that the plane took off from the Columbia airport in Tuolomne County, loaded with pot grown around Mount Knight and Jupiter California and crashed in the lake FULL OF FUEL..... A few days after I posted that, I was contacted by Tuolemne County law enforcement....Back then, Supertaco shared peoples personal information on the forum which I didnt know. I thought my identity was secure and anonymous. But since my email is my name, people smeared me and I even got threatening phone calls.... I read that the pilots wife claims the load came from Columbia South America. But I question whether a woman married to a drug trafficker who may have been murdered would tell the truth about where the drugs really came from and who was actually growing it. And yes Ive seen the pictures of Mexican looking sacks that it was packaged in. In 1977 you could get those bags at any headshop in California, including Eucalyptus records in Davis where I grew up.
The only fact that I know for sure is that I didnt want any of our climbing heros to be tarnished or investigated because of this thread. So I stirred up a huge shytstorm to direct attention away from those I mean to protect. And for the record, I was in the valley at a YMCA camp run out of Curry Village in 1977. I was in fifth grade. My councilors who were supposed to be running the camp spent all their time climbing and smoking pot while us kids ran wild around the park unsupervised. I recall waking up late one night and being accustomed to socializing with adults, I went to the campfire where one of my councilors was smoking a pipe. Id never seen a pipe like that before and asked what he was doing. He told me it was weed, which I had seen my older sister smoke. I even asked if I could try it. He said that it was a big secret and that I wasnt supossed to talk about it. I was intrigued that what he was doing was taboo, so of course I was fascinated. He let me smell some of the smoke. But when I tried to convince him to let me hold the pipe, another councilor appeared and scolded him and they took their pipe away into the darkness.
During one of my unsupervised days in the Valley, I went for a swim in the merced river and stepped on a coke bottle. This beautiful angel of a blond climber girl, who was not a councilor at the camp, came to my rescue. She was about 17 years old on a horse. She brought me back to camp. Despite my desire to remain at camp, I ended up getting sent home to recover. I returned to the camp a couple weeks later. That was the year that all our toothpaste and chapstick got taken away because someone allegedly got attacked by a bear while wearing cherry chapstick. The bear was not wearing the chapstick. Back then the valley had free shuttle busses and us kids rode everywhere by ourselves. I caught alot of trout flyfishing. Back then, you could catch fish in every trickle of water in the valley, but it was foolish to keep fish on your person because Bears would follow you. My Dad taught me how to trick bears into going in circles by dragging our catch on the ground in a circle around a tree the year before.
My most poignant memory of the whole experience was that our councilors, three rock climbers, pretty much didnt care about us very much. They were very preoccupied with something else. They were moody, unkempt, overly impressed with themselves and on some kind of mission that we campers were not a part of. They were gone most of the time so we just ran amok by ourselves. Our parents were told that we would be in the tent cabins. But instead they had us all sleep on the ground. There wasnt enough food so we all were hungry most of the time. It was many years ago, and I dont remember their names, but Ive seen some pictures of them on this forum and elsewhere. I remember in the mornings they would gear up for their climbs and bail on us.
There was one gentleman whom I met while playing on part of El Cap apron. He wore black spandex and had a rack of stoppers. I asked him what they were and he told me about climbing. This man was not one of our councilors. But he spent thirty minutes spotting me and helping me solo a tiny slab. It was the best experience of the week. I was nine years old.
gruzzy

Social climber
socal
Sep 13, 2017 - 09:48am PT
sounds like we got two tall tales going
Mike Honcho

Trad climber
Glenwood Springs, CO
Sep 13, 2017 - 10:04am PT
If someone would just publish a Goddamn book and get a pro to write a screenplay you would be a millionaire. This is the dumbest f*#king thread..
kief

Trad climber
east side
Sep 13, 2017 - 11:26am PT
sounds like we got two tall tales going

Hell no. Lots of YMCA camps at Curry in the dead of winter. Swimming in the Merced too!
Rock!...oopsie.

Trad climber
the pitch above you
Sep 13, 2017 - 04:43pm PT
This thread has ensured that anyone interested in this topic in 2005 won't give a single flying f*#k by the time any book is ever produced. This is the ultimate case example of killing your own market... but kudos on drawing it out for as long as possible.
WBraun

climber
Sep 13, 2017 - 04:45pm PT
Rock!...oopsie.

You will be the first one to run out to buy the book ^^^^
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Sep 13, 2017 - 08:44pm PT
This thread has ensured that anyone interested in this topic in 2005 won't give a single flying f*#k by the time any book is ever produced. This is the ultimate case example of killing your own market... but kudos on drawing it out for as long as possible.

If the book is ever published, I'll buy it. I don't believe it will ever be published. Licky's a researcher, not a writer.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 13, 2017 - 08:48pm PT
More interesting stories with big names and money optioning them have not (likely will not) make it to the silver screen - by George (Clooney)!

BTW Rick I notced you commented on Dean's show.



Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Sep 13, 2017 - 09:44pm PT
If I was just a reader and not a witness, this whole thread is full of tall tales hardly believable. Oddly, there are many facts here. It's up to Licky to separate the bull from the facts. I'll say this: it was in fact an incredible event. When I tell the story as I know it in real time, fact, it's a pretty darn cool story. If you were part of it, you know what I'm talking about.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 14, 2017 - 08:58am PT

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona

Jun 29, 2016 - 04:38pm PT
The article was plenty for me. It's a fun read, but nowhere near as much fun as the visceral impact one feels when hearing the story as oral history, a woven tapestry of vernaculars and viewpoints told in the idiolects of those who were there, from one campfire to the next, over the decades. It's the tiny details and asides and gestures and facial expressions and humor and giddy reflective amusement that the storytellers bring to life and that make the story worth listening too. I spent many weeks in the Valley that spring, so I heard the whole tale from quite a few people, and already the story was well along in it's evolution into mythology. In any event, having read the article I doubt I'd bother to read any book, should it someday appear. Unless, of course, it receives rave reviews and a write-up in The New York Times Review Of Books.

In other words, meh.
Nick Danger

Ice climber
Arvada, CO
Sep 14, 2017 - 01:25pm PT
Chainsaw, You really had an interesting childhood.
Rock!...oopsie.

Trad climber
the pitch above you
Sep 14, 2017 - 07:09pm PT
Bold proclamation, Werner. However, there's no chance of it becoming true.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 14, 2017 - 08:07pm PT


zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 14, 2017 - 08:51pm PT
I've promised Ric not to snow on his parade, but he assures me that all questions will be answered in a comprehensive book TBP.

Obligatory teaser/trailer

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6xgTrufXcCM
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2017 - 09:28pm PT
Chainsaw..I'll repeat myself. You have no clue and you are barking at shadows. The DOJ have been watching you for years and tell me you are bogus. Next?

Uh oh...am I tipping my hat Sidmo?
Sid Mo

climber
Oct 12, 2017 - 08:57pm PT
Well, you illiterate pretender, the term that I believe you are butchering, is "tipping your hand" (as in poker.) As an old bartender, I've sized you up as pompous ass who never tips anyway. As a fella just threaded a couple of posts back, you're a researcher not a writer. Admit it and claim your glory. It's honorable. Research is the hardest part of our work, and I both hate it and suck at it. But I'm a writer. You're not, likky. Be a great researcher. Stop pretending to be a writer. You're not one and never will be.
gruzzy

Social climber
socal
Oct 13, 2017 - 08:15am PT
People who hate are not people at all
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 13, 2017 - 08:19am PT
I hate beets but I don’t hate Licky. Am I a Zombie?
gruzzy

Social climber
socal
Oct 14, 2017 - 11:10pm PT
Ok.Ok. I catch your drift. Semantics. I must pay attention to semantics.
Reilly,
Do you eat the flesh of living humans?
Do you have the IQ of a piece of leather?
Are you a supporter of Donald Trump?
If you answered "no" to the above three questions, you are not a zombie
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 15, 2017 - 08:24am PT
I went to the Haight a few times, after all it was just across the bay. I wasn't that impressed. The Park is nice and some good music in the Panhandle and I can confirm no drug plane crashes there. A rumour persists that the Coronado Company did offload at Ocean Beach, but his could be confusion as to what is the "real" OB.


Sid Mo

climber
Oct 16, 2017 - 07:10pm PT
There once was a bolt route up the cross there on Mt. Davidson at the bottom right side of the map. 130 ft dead vertical with about a hundred square ft square and level summit. Nicer view when not foggy but was often shrouded in a clammy mist. Christians didn't dig us climbing on their cross though.
tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Oct 16, 2017 - 08:45pm PT
You can see the bolts in the Dirty Harry "Cross" scene...

zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 16, 2017 - 08:54pm PT
Dope research t_t

Gonna upgrade that to acute dope research

tuolumne_tradster

Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
Oct 16, 2017 - 09:28pm PT
Dude: I was there in the early 70s with some friends who wanted to climb the bolt ladder on the Cross. It was late at night & the Cross was still lit up. It was foggy, so you could only see the Cross if you were up close but it was eerie. This couple wandered up to the Cross and said they were trippin' on acid. They were quite astonished and transfixed by what they were witnessing...a guy aid climbing the Cross on a foggy night. They were not familiar with aid climbing techniques. The leader was about to clip the 3rd or 4th bolt, I don't remember, when the lights went out. I think they turned the lights off around midnight. We only had funky headlamps back then and the leader got a bit unnerved when the lights went out, so he backed off. The couple disappeared into the fog. True story...I'm not makin' this sh*t up. Later that year we saw Dirty Harry and noticed the bolts on the Cross in the scene.
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 16, 2017 - 09:48pm PT
Weren't those things called foghats?


zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 24, 2017 - 11:26am PT

Flying out of Los Angeleeeze, bringing in a couple of keys. Missed that damn ocean by a country mile.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Oct 24, 2017 - 12:38pm PT
I landed at Catalina many times, Only heard of one crash, commuter going off the end of the runway. I would always have a buffalo burger, local meat.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 24, 2017 - 12:59pm PT
Lotsa crashes there, Jon. I bet one every five years. May have slacked off a bit the last decade.
A number were IFR. The VOR approach has very high minimums which, of course, means
guys were going below mins and paying the ultimate price. The VOR/DME was easier and
I cheated on it but if you went below mins you were still a couple miles from the island so no big! ;-)
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 24, 2017 - 01:11pm PT

Never thought to look for Mammoth Airport vids. There are a bunch.

This one is interesting.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 24, 2017 - 01:19pm PT
Wrecks here.

http://www.islapedia.com/index.php?title=AIRPLANE_ACCIDENTS:_SANTA_CATALINA_ISLAND




Sid Mo

climber
Oct 28, 2017 - 08:47pm PT
Yeah we rapped off there after lightsout once when the ice chest had run out as well. No tripping visitors but that fog sure was eerie. Dirty Harry woulda creeped us out for sure.
WBraun

climber
Oct 28, 2017 - 10:45pm PT
people died dealing drugs from that plane

Who died other than the two guys flying it?
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 2, 2017 - 10:29pm PT
Did a FOIA request through DEA and DOJ for Sid Moe's real name and they came back with nothing. He is a non player. Not even on their radar.
zBrown

Ice climber
Nov 3, 2017 - 08:38am PT
Sidmo got no real name? Did you try alternate spellings?

acidMo, fibMo, skidMo, gitMo, moSid, siDom






Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2017 - 09:33am PT
Used his real name
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Nov 19, 2017 - 06:47pm PT
Try Sidmun Freud..
Sid Mo

climber
Nov 28, 2017 - 05:39pm PT
Whew! Thanks lick. I owe you a favor buddy. You're allright!
Sid Mo

climber
Jan 7, 2018 - 12:12pm PT
Where's Licky?
Just because he can't find sidmo is he just gonna quit dreaming his impossible dream? Publish, brother. Publish. Did I say publish? Should I say "print" instead?
Print, bro. Print.
Sid Mo

climber
Jan 7, 2018 - 12:15pm PT
I mean, what's the phuckin book supposed to be about? The plane? The crash? The thread? Sidmo? Does Licky know? Is licky sick? WTF is up?
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jan 7, 2018 - 12:18pm PT
they say that every one sees what they are meant to see
But just in case it is not as plain as the nose on a dog,
I see a skull-like ghoulish face
Flipping the the 'bird'
A black middle finger at the camera.

be well in this the what is it?
The 41st anniversary of sparkley ditch weed from a plane that crashed into a lake in Yosemite national park. end of the beginning. . .
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Jan 7, 2018 - 08:52pm PT
I see stOOpid Americans...
Sid Mo

climber
Jan 12, 2018 - 09:08am PT
stOOpid = OOLicky, secret agent for DEA
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Jan 12, 2018 - 01:46pm PT
SPOILER ALERT!!!!

Yeah well I just read 'Angels of Light' by Jeff Long and know the whole story! You're were just too slow Licky.

What happened:

One of the Lodestar pilots had an identical twin brother who ends up murdering a bunch of climbers while trying to get the secret cocaine stash back. Plus the hero John gets the woman Liz in the end; at least that's implied. Plus the evil climber Kresinski, who rules Camp 4 with an iron fist, who had gotten the cocaine out of the drowned plane with a scuba outfit and hidden it in a high cave, gets his just reward just after the pack full of cocaine topples off the cliff with him tangled in a rope tied to the pack; they both fall 400 feet and land back in the lake. Kresinski was going to kill John after John accidentally distracted the evil twin brother and allowed him (Kresinski) to brain the bad guy with a large rock. Unfortunately the young, incredibly gifted climber Tucker early on gets axed by the evil twin brother just as he (Tucker) completes the most difficult climb ever attempted in the entire world. Whew! At least Tucker didn't die a virgin, thanks to Katie, who took a shine to the young (18 years old) man.
snakefoot

climber
Nor Cal
Jan 12, 2018 - 02:00pm PT
is this the longest thread with the least info still?
Don Paul

Mountain climber
Denver CO
Jan 12, 2018 - 02:12pm PT
Thanks I thought we would never hear how it ended. What about the climber who got pushed off a trail to his death? That was the part that disturbed me.
WBraun

climber
Jan 12, 2018 - 04:12pm PT
What about the climber who got pushed off a trail to his death?

No such thing ever happened.

Did CNN (čřánkl00n news network) report that?
Sid Mo

climber
Jan 12, 2018 - 06:36pm PT
Never understood what was so difficult about laundering money. Just take it all to C4, buy a huge stash of plane weed, and go to Mammoth and sell it to those dudes. Their cash is straight out LA, and thereby unf*#kingtraceable.
AE

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 18, 2018 - 11:45am PT
Someone should file a FOIA request on Licky, which might provide some insight into this entire nightmare.
I have been compulsively watching "The Curse of Oak Island," and am starting to wonder, if Licky's fabled tome isn't buried at the bottom of the Money Pit.
Or, to be more precise, there is a greater likelihood of finding the Ark of the Covenant, Shakespeare's manuscripts, the Holy Grail, and vast hordes of gold hidden by the Knights Templar in and around Oak Island, than there is the likelihood of Licky ever publishing a book.
In the tone of the show's narrator:
"A rusted bolt? A record of an airplane's registration number? Rumors of untold fortunes made by a seamy group of furtive ne'erdowells, seen lurking in the woods and rocks in the notorious 'Yosemite Valley'? Could this all really be proof, finally, of some vast, global conspiracy between international drug smugglers and secret government agencies bent on subverting everything good God-fearing Americans find holy? Or, will new revelations revive the "Curse of the Valley," as legend says a few dozen more old gray climbers must die before the truth can be finally laid bare. Tune in, same time, next year, for "Airplane Crash in Yosemite."
gruzzy

Social climber
socal
Jan 18, 2018 - 01:05pm PT
Sounds like a cool climber adventure. Wouldve been a cool scuba diver adventure if it had landed in the sea
zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 18, 2018 - 01:31pm PT


The answer to What is Mind is there at Oak Island

The trifecta of answer(s), treasure and the book will win, place and show simultaneously

Squint

Trad climber
Colorado
Feb 26, 2018 - 08:44pm PT
I was sleeping ten feet from Jack the night he left for that rescue. It didn't rain---we were both sleeping out in the open. I would have known. We were to leave the next day to buy property in Colorado, Wyoming, New Mexico. We were going to drive his car that his (I think) his mother gave him. It was a red convertible. I will never forget waking to find Jack gone and going to the cafeteria. The word that someone had fallen was already circulating. When somebody said that the victim had a chew in his lip I knew it was Jack.

I find all this BS of being Jacks friend appalling. Jack was an outcast. Few people would give him the time of day.He was a wildman, a freak even by Yosemite standards, a misfit in the Valley scene. He had an inside to Valley goings on as a Park service employee and the crazy guy that hung around the fringes of the valley elite.
Jack and I had many drunken nights together. Chewing Copenhagen, drinking crap liquor and making bad choices. I knew Jack when he was known as "pig". Overweight and naive as any new arrival to the Sierras as I had ever seen. He took on a crazy mountain man persona and took to conditioning himself with a dedication I have never witnessed. Damn--he toughed it out.
But this BS that he was some accepted, known, loved character in the Valley really disturbs me.He wasn't going to be seen bouldering with Kauk or Bridwell, he wasn't going to be seen hanging with any of the Valley elite. Really--they didn't even know his name.
He took "dirtbag" to a level the Stonemasters would have aspired to. He knew how to live like a Mountain Man or maybe he just did it because he didn't have any choice. He was a lovable nutcase, but loved by few.
I was aware of the money he and his buddy found, and I was aware of the documents he found, and I was aware he was going to meet with "an attorney" that was concerned with the documents. But I was not prepared to lose my crazy friend suddenly, on a paved trail that he would have run up blind.
Jeez I'd like to be drinking crap liquor with him right now.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
Feb 27, 2018 - 07:55am PT
Whoa! This is getting good again. Licky ain't gonna like this. You didn't clear this through him did ya. His sources haven't told it that way atall.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 27, 2018 - 08:02am PT
The plot thickens...😈
gruzzy

Social climber
socal
Feb 27, 2018 - 11:59am PT
I dont understand why people are so silent on something that happened so long ago.
A bunch of dirtbags made money, bought houses, cars etc..
Unless, those same dirtbags did other "bad" stuff to maintain their
gruzzy

Social climber
socal
Feb 27, 2018 - 12:01pm PT
gifted freebies. Now, THAT would be a worthy thickener of the plot
Squint

Trad climber
Colorado
Feb 27, 2018 - 12:40pm PT
Just for the record...I know the trail is not paved. Just a figure of speech.

I haven't read much of this thread and don't know what you guys are talking about when it comes to differing stories. No matter.
I was Jacks friend and saw him fairly regularly. I was the one that told his girlfriend he was gone.
I knew a little about his background and his mom. I used to see the brand new nice cashmere sweaters she used to send him in the mail. They were black and filthy within days, just like everything else he owned. He was a slob and had a big booming voice you could hear across the valley. The first time I made him laugh, I about came out of my skin from the volume of his guffaw. He chewed Cope constantly and drank with conviction. I've forgotten more mad days and nights with the guy than I remember but they were all entertaining.

I suppose it is unimportant that people only took note of him after his death , it is kind of human nature to do that. It just irks me to read about feigned respect where there was little when he was alive.
For all the talk in those days about the cool of not conforming, there was still little tolerance for a whacko like Jack. Of course, if he had more climbing talent, his presence might have been accepted differently.
The good thing is that none of it mattered to Jack, he was having the time of his life every single day. He didn't mind showing it. I've met very few that were as exuberant about every damn thing as he was.
WBraun

climber
Feb 27, 2018 - 12:47pm PT
Squint, were you his girlfriend?
throwpie

Trad climber
Berkeley
Feb 27, 2018 - 04:25pm PT
My two cents about Jack...he was a pretty cool guy, a friend and partner on quite a few climbs...we probably backed off of as many as we did. We shared a common love of climbing based on having fun mostly. I'm not sure if it was lack of talent or desire, but neither of us came close to the standards of the day but we had a blast nonetheless . Haven't thought of him for years, and It terrifies me to imagine his demise. I hope it was just a dream to him.... He was one of those many characters that colored my time in the Valley and I remember them all. RIP
zBrown

Ice climber
Feb 27, 2018 - 05:00pm PT
A friend of mine, an acquaintance, and a guy I didn't know killed another guy in a gone sour drug deal in Otay.

Still puzzling over whether any good came of it. Don't know if there's enough material for a book.

None was named Jack and I never thought to ask if they got the money back.

Risk

Mountain climber
Marooned, 855 miles from Tuolumne Meadows
Feb 27, 2018 - 07:01pm PT
I saw him on the trail just below the lake after his find.

Kevin,

Were you camped on the uphill side of the trail with TT in your group, just down from the lake that night (maybe 1.5 miles)? If so, I stumbled into your camp the same day headed down, just as it got dark. No other campers were just below the lake that day, to my knowledge. Could there have been two wallets? Because, some lone guy (I didn't know Jack) showed me a soaked wallet full of $50's right at the outlet of the lake as I arrived earlier that afternoon. More puzzle pieces. . . .
Squint

Trad climber
Colorado
Feb 27, 2018 - 07:32pm PT
Warbler...what did you say to him when you met him on the trail? What ever it was, it must have scared the sh#t out of him because he buried everything but the money off to the side of the trail on the way down.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
Feb 27, 2018 - 08:41pm PT
Kevin,
One of the better posts on this forum and certainly this thread to come out in a long time. Cool!

edit-not cool someone lost their life but cool recount of 1st hand history
Risk

Mountain climber
Marooned, 855 miles from Tuolumne Meadows
Feb 27, 2018 - 08:48pm PT
That correlates. The camp was to the right side side of the trail, on the way out. I vaguely recall some of the group leaving during the night. The guy I met with the wallet couldn't have avoided me, as it was right at the lake outlet where everyone went since the trail up was on the east side of the creek and the crash was on the west side of the lake. At the end of the day, I came crashing down at dusk on the run from some guys who claimed to have a gun and demanded I carry part of their load. They were in the midst of being way weighted down when I ditched them, down trail. Your camp and group was my safe sanctuary from these thugs, really. TT waved me in and said something like "hey dude, slow down, take a break with us, what's the hurry?"

BTW- Ran into Roger Bannister [RIP] on his way down that same day, down around Clark Fork.

EDIT: as I recall, tension and paranoia seemed to grow the further one got from the lake and the closer one got to a road. I might have known Jack from Boystown, but don't recall. Once anyone got out with a load, things went from mellow and low key to some sort of drug-running thriller movie in real life, unexpectedly.
Squint

Trad climber
Colorado
Feb 28, 2018 - 05:13am PT
The timeline is a bit foggy. I remember him holing up down by Foresta for some time. I visited him and another wierdo friend down there a couple times.
I pleaded with him to keep his mouth shut about the documents and money. It wasn't so much he was a big mouth and definitely not a braggart, but just an open book. When the shady dudes and the journos started turning up in the valley it was already well known Jack found the docs. I don't know if he was trying to placate me, or it was fact, but he told me he buried them.
Of course everyone had their own theories about who these dudes were and why they were taking so much interest in a plane load that was already lost. I had my own. That theory changed later in life when I had more experience. And Yeah... I think those guys really were scary dudes.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
Feb 28, 2018 - 07:58am PT
So what's the consensus? Was he maybe "offed"? I thought that was pretty much debunked quite convincingly by Werner and others in a different thread. Or maybe even this thread but I sure aint goinna start back at the beginning again.

More please. Real life-better than any book or movie.

Arne
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Feb 28, 2018 - 09:01am PT
Warbler...From what a Miwok told me , a visit from a Great Horned owl has something to do with death...
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 28, 2018 - 09:06am PT
A GHO has hooted at me every night between October and February for 25 years.
It ain’t working, yet.
gruzzy

Social climber
socal
Feb 28, 2018 - 10:37am PT
Why don't you guys with all the knowledge of the actual events band together, write the book, or find a writer to write the book, and tell this amazing adventure story?
The best two pages of this thread for sure. Owl thing gave me goosebumps
gruzzy

Social climber
socal
Feb 28, 2018 - 10:40am PT
Another question if I read it correctly. The black book got buried, still?
ionlyski

Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
Feb 28, 2018 - 10:44am PT
Licky wouldn't like that. It hasn't been cleared.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Feb 28, 2018 - 04:37pm PT
http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/topic/33990-1977-yosemite-plane-crash/?page=3


Great story,a lot more to it all than I had thought and I have been reading this thread for awhile.

I see that Jack Dorn was from Utica. I climbed a bit in Little Falls and remember meeting a guy who put up a lot of routes there long after Jack had perished. I wonder if it was Jacks brother or relative. His name was Dorn.
Don Paul

Gym climber
Denver CO
Feb 28, 2018 - 11:51pm PT
It's just weird that he gets the drug dealer's phone book, tells everybody, and then dies.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 1, 2018 - 07:56am PT
It's just weird that he gets the drug dealer's phone book, tells everybody, and then dies.

Life is weird. Why would some goon go way up the Falls Trail to off him?
Lots easier to take him back of some boulder and plug him.
Don Paul

Gym climber
Denver CO
Mar 2, 2018 - 05:59am PT
Also weird is that the toxicology report showed that there was no alcohol in Dorn's system when he fell off the cliff. So, who is promoting the false narrative that he was drunk?
Sid Mo

climber
Mar 3, 2018 - 10:02am PT
Weren't there supposed to have been "guys in " Italian" suits and dress shoes seen on the trail about the same time? I remember hearing that at the Ahwahnee right after he fell. Yeah, I hung at the Ahwahnee, we weren't as in the loop as you camp 4 dudes but the coffee at the lodge caf sucked and they wanted us to pay for it. A bellman told me that and those guys were conversational with people visiting the valley that most folks never met. Rich mafiosi perhaps, or feds passing thru, Big time dealers, big shots in general usually stayed there.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 3, 2018 - 10:12am PT
Warbler, professionals don’t worry about making it look an accident. As the Godfather said:

“It’s just business.”
Risk

Mountain climber
Marooned, 855 miles from Tuolumne Meadows
Mar 3, 2018 - 10:37am PT
There are too many unlikely prerequisites for this to have been anything but a freak accident:

1. They would have had to have known beforehand of this one spot on the trail where such a drop-off exists just feet from the trail.

2. There was no notice that this SAR operation was going to occur until it did.

3. They would have had to get to the spot on the trail before Jack arrived.

4. They would had to know beforehand that Jack would be on the team.

Unless the need for a SAR was staged and there was inside help to make this happen, it's impossible it was anything but an accident. John Dill is a physicist and then some; what's he say?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 3, 2018 - 10:48am PT
Jack wore coke-bottle glasses...? Sounds like he could have walked off the cliff...? A friend who wears thick glasses stepped off a 10 foot drop off and broke his knee cap shredding his hands...Got him in the boat and paddled back to shore in an electrical storm then threw him over my shoulder and carried him back the remaining mile to the car..
Risk

Mountain climber
Marooned, 855 miles from Tuolumne Meadows
Mar 3, 2018 - 12:00pm PT
The killer(s) would've needed to be in excellent physical condition. YOSAR team members are always in tip-top shape and can power up to the top of the falls in an hour or less. It wasn't a Corelone that could have followed him, and few people in the Valley are in physical shape comparable to anyone on YOSAR. Nevertheless....
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 3, 2018 - 07:38pm PT
Lest everybody forgets, the fellows flying the plane died.

Would they have used the proceeds of their endeavor to found an orphanage down in Mexivo where their contraband originated, had they reached their destination
Albion

Trad climber
Bristol, UK
Mar 16, 2018 - 01:06pm PT

Looks as though they cross the ridge a little further west these days
professor_poopy_pants

Trad climber
Brownville
Mar 16, 2018 - 06:55pm PT
OMG! This thread is still going! I remember when it first started so many years ago!
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 16, 2018 - 07:16pm PT
13 years old in five days. Klimmer's Massive Ark on the Moon is approaching 8 years. These are both classics worthy of ..... something for their incredible content and humor.
gruzzy

Social climber
socal
Mar 16, 2018 - 10:28pm PT
why are there so many negative old climbers?
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 16, 2018 - 10:29pm PT
Jimson weed
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 16, 2018 - 10:51pm PT

Strangely enough, depending on who you believe, there may or may not have been a mule involved in this sad saga, but two? NOWAY brother
Sid Mo

climber
Mar 19, 2018 - 04:30pm PT
"why are there so many negative old climbers?"

Whatthef*#kyoutalkingaboutmotherf*#ker?
We're all a bunch of sweethearts, filled with a love of humanity unparalleled and unprecedented among other demographic categories.

Cynical Sid
Risk

Mountain climber
Marooned, 855 miles from Tuolumne Meadows
Apr 1, 2018 - 02:55pm PT
41st anniversary of the big haul and the chainsaw - Easter Sunday.
zBrown

Ice climber
Apr 12, 2018 - 08:28pm PT


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LzDSq6m2zV4&itct=CBQQpDAYAiITCMH6q-imttoCFU8vfgoduUcBSTIKd2F0Y2gtdnJlY0j0qc6r1PXLg3U%3D
AE

climber
Boulder, CO
May 9, 2018 - 06:30pm PT
Just to belabor a dead horse, for naive newbies to this absurdly pointless zombie (as in refuses to die) thread:
The hypothetical murder of one Jack would have to depend on some drug connection Guido in shiny leather pumps, entirely clueless in regard to all things outdoorsy, especially hiking steep, slippery trails mile after mile, in the dark, who suddenly is able to sprint up to precisely the perfect spot in the trail to ambush Jack, throw him off, making it the perfect murder, without propelling Guido himself off, in his leather-soled shoes. Badda-bing, badda-boom.
Zed's dead, and so should be this threadbare thread.
Lickety, split.
Please.
Thank you.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 9, 2018 - 07:00pm PT
Hey, you would be ill advised to sell Guido short. Il mio amico Vinnie is quite light of foot. jess sayin’...
zBrown

Ice climber
May 9, 2018 - 07:37pm PT
It wasn't a horse, it was a mule.

I have yet to see any social benefit deriving from the scavenger work nor from this thread. It is funny though.

Simple questions Ric:

How many scavengers were there (plus or minus 5)?

How many pounds of tainted weed did they bring down.

How many started their path down the humanistic road by attempting to recover the dead bodies?

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jul 26, 2018 - 05:58am PT
SAY LOUDLY, ALMOST "BRAYING"

Twas Donkey,A Dumb Ass,
The story of Mules. . .'N Yo !
It was Years ago


Thanx Doc !
so from the hint...
O for when The Flames burned
Bright, opaque , oblong -

It's its' at its end at last

For Do Tell?

No One will ,,,

this dawg day afternoon, has all but run

its coarse, course,

Was it really that long ago?

set sail, took flight

Augured in

mor'n 40 years ago

The tail found
Has run aground

Anyone buyin'
 that a book'LL come , , ,

From whos whats-it?
was it that Licky cat that was going to do that?
Oh come on, he would need to OD on Adderall

If 'n anybody still feels the need to read about IT, to grasp at what the end of the free psychedelic phase was like?
That person needs to go & find some other thing to read/
try "The Electric Kool-aid Acid Test", for fun.

Anything else?
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Aug 13, 2018 - 04:31pm PT
Hey why knot Its all just a memory

{You remember, don'tcha?}[Click to View YouTube Video]
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Mill Valley, Ca
Aug 14, 2018 - 08:04am PT
Lickety, split.
Please.
Thank you.

LOL!

He may have already "split".

Licky hasn't posted since Nov of last year. Perhaps the goons silenced him on the remote chance that an incriminating book might actually get published in their lifetimes?
squishy

Mountain climber
Aug 14, 2018 - 02:25pm PT
Licky it's been to long, I've followed for years, you cannot leave us hanging so pull up your big boy pants and give an update, something notable for the historical guide special release printing that you could use to pay off the grunts that roughed you up about spilling the beans.. Come on, you cannot stop mid story like this..end the damn book..about the book..
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 14, 2018 - 02:29pm PT
Licky is busy doing a deal with Dreamworks.

Working title:

‘Get A Life!’
Licky

Mountain climber
California
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 23, 2018 - 12:06am PT
Still here. Changed jobs that have taken up most of my time along with tons of travel.

As for the book...I think I've finally figured out what caused the plane to crash. So now I'm fine tuning what is new to me. As someone that does not make a living writing I've been very critical of myself for my verbage. I'm used to writting reports, getting the bottom of the line quickly. So for me to make everything flow is a new world for me. I'd like to think the book will be published by December, but that might be a reach.
I'll say this however, my research is finished.

Stay tuned
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 23, 2018 - 03:41am PT
Good luck!
zBrown

Ice climber
Aug 23, 2018 - 07:38am PT
Keep on Truckin'

gruzzy

Social climber
socal
Sep 1, 2018 - 09:51am PT
It would be nice to have a copy on the coffee table by Christmas.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 1, 2018 - 10:06am PT
WE NEED THAT BOOK BEFORE WE’RE ALL TOO BRAIN DEAD FROM LEGAL POT TO READ IT!
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Sep 1, 2018 - 10:19am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 1, 2018 - 05:22pm PT
WE NEED THAT BOOK BEFORE WE’RE ALL TOO BRAIN DEAD FROM LEGAL POT TO READ IT!

Michele went to the dispensary and bought me a brownie to try to get back into my good graces after she jammed up the plumbing in the kitchen.

I ate 1/4 of it after dinner for desert and I could barely walk later that night when I got up to pee. Dizzy, I mean literally had to hang on to stuff.

I don't think it was the Bruce Lee strain, but it's a good thing the nunchucks are packed away.



Well as long as we're all here, might as well put in a little plug for my forthcoming book (will it beat Licky to press, who knowz). Tenatative title

johntp

Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
Sep 1, 2018 - 06:26pm PT
Really? This horse has been beaten to death. Licky is unlikely to ever get published. Who would buy it if it is? All the tale is on this thread; what additional light can be shed?

Who really cares about why the plane crashed? The story is in the aftermath.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 1, 2018 - 06:30pm PT
There is actually quite a bit about this story that has not seen the light of day.

Whether Licky shines it remains to be seen.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 1, 2018 - 06:31pm PT
Well, we already know that one of two things happened: something broke or somebody effed up.
Yer welcome.
johntp

Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
Sep 1, 2018 - 06:40pm PT
Guess the nuances don't interest me. Maybe 30 or so people who were there are still alive to want to read it. Of those 30 or so, they already know the nuances minus some details. Could be wrong depending on the author's writing skills to make it interesting.

This thread has been fun.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 1, 2018 - 06:51pm PT
bvb said it best (quite) some time ago

But

The donkey book is gonna knock your {horse} shoes off



Possible guest appearances

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Sep 2, 2018 - 04:32pm PT
Zbrown....soak that bruce lee in hi octane gas....youll get a bang out of it...
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Sep 2, 2018 - 06:01pm PT
This thread had 2,816 posts
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 2, 2018 - 06:57pm PT
2817

As Bruce "Utah" Phillips was known to utter:

"it's good though"

Certainly deserving of more attention than it got, Bruce's funeral

2008


Our family gathered at Pioneer Park in Nevada City were a team of strong, Chestnut hued white footed Pusher horses hitched to a simple black Cassion wagon patiently waited for the arrival of it's cargo.

Dad's wish was to be buried in a simple hand made pine box and thanks to master craftsman Stephen Goodfield he was. The coffin was perfect, unfinished, slightly tapered, six rope handles and sealed by 42 square head nails.

The team of horses flanked by the pallbearers exited the park and paced themselves up the hill for the twenty minute walk to Pine View cemetery . We laid dad to rest in the far North, East corner of the cemetery under a native Black Oak.

Sid Mo

climber
Oct 12, 2018 - 11:00pm PT
Thoking, you grow up, buttwipe.
I ain't got no intention to, nor a reason. Why would I? So's I could be a witty critic like yourself, or a successful author like Licky? I'm already both and you and licky are too phucking stupid to know. Here's what I know: licky ain't gonna write no book.
zBrown

Ice climber
Oct 12, 2018 - 11:10pm PT
Funny thing

I was just thinking about Whittey Payton the other day

He rear ended me with his eighteen wheeler (in Beverly Hilss no less)

His website is under construction indefinitely

https://www.freightconnect.com/carrier/58edbc035ac7b91ea7f68497

https://www.freightconnect.com/


In lieu of reading

Ric's book or Whittey's website perhaps you can post a link to one of your editions sid

Alternatively, I'll put in a chapter in the forthcoming

The Tijuana Donkey Smugglers

With appropriate attribution of course

Sid Mo

climber
Nov 4, 2018 - 04:33pm PT
Wait a minute. Doth I offend thee so much that when you call me an "ass" you do it substituting dollar signs for the "s" ? As in "A$$" ?!?
Whoa dude, please forgive me, please! I'm deeply stung by the pointed barbs of your passionate critique. It hurts so much. Not sure I'll sleep tonight, perhaps ever again. Will you, and thoking, and most importantly, Licky please find the compassion in your hearts and souls to forgive my egregious transgressions. I value your input, opinions, criticisms and advice so much that , again, I implore you to forgive me.

NOT
zBrown

Ice climber
Nov 4, 2018 - 04:52pm PT
I believe Donkey is the correct spelling






gratuitous plugz

The Tijuana Donkey Smugglers
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Nov 14, 2018 - 02:24am PT
Wow, this thread is still going. And Licky is still getting his nuts busted for taking so long. lol

You know, I could give a sh#t if Licky ever publishes actually, he clearly loves doing the research on this story and I have enjoyed the hell out of reading about it here. That's plenty. Having said that, it would be interesting to do a Venn diagram of all the people on here that have been giving Licky sh#t about how long it's taking, vs the group of people that regularly derail threads with political sh#t and argue about the same tired ass talking points for literally a couple of decades now. I have a pretty good idea how it would turn out. Seems to me like that's not the strongest position from which to offer criticisms on someone else's creative process but whatever, it's supertopo.

Hey, while I'm thinking of it, Sidmo, a lot of pharmacies now have this service where they'll deliver your meds already sorted for daily use. You should check it out.
Sid Mo

climber
Nov 15, 2018 - 02:30pm PT
Great idea. I'm so tired from crawling to Walgreens, if you could deliver my meds I'd have way more time to blast Licky for posing as a writer when we all know he's really a rogue fed on the take from the Mexican drug cartel that pulls his puppet strings. El Chapo's trial probably has him busy now, he's running a disinformation campaign, of which the book and this thread are just a small part of. He's a busy boy.
Trango

Mountain climber
Livermore, CA
Jan 28, 2019 - 08:15am PT
So I was cleaning out my garage yesterday, and found some snaps I took at Lower Merced Pass Lake in July 1978, a year and half after the crash:
That's one of the prop blades from the Howard, which somebody supported in a rock cairn at the north end of the lake (on the rocky point in the upper right, in the lake picture). If you can't read the inscription, it's:

IN MEMORY
To the 2 unsung heros who gave their lives for the American marijuana movement
May these souls soar high on the wing forever
Crashed in this lake approx.
12/2/76

Also I still have a spare spark plug from the plane, which looks like it might still work.

I was there with a volunteer (paying, actually - it was a Sierra Club outing) work crew, cleaning up the remaining wreckage on behalf of the NPS. We left that prop blade behind, but I'm sure it wasn't there much longer.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Jan 28, 2019 - 10:50am PT
Here ya` goIN MEMORY
To the 2 unsung heros who gave
Their lives for the American
Marijuana movement
May these souls soar high on the
Wing Forever
Crashed in this lake approx.
12/2/76
Thank you!
Don Paul

Social climber
Washington DC
Jan 28, 2019 - 12:37pm PT
I doubt they gave their lives for the mj movement or had any good cause in mind at all. These were drug traffickers, not pot smoking hippies. The climber who found their address book told everybody about it and was soon murdered.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jan 28, 2019 - 01:13pm PT
But he has an El Cap route named for him.

Is Lucky still at this?
This horse is dead and stinking.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 28, 2019 - 01:38pm PT
Ric and I are working on commemorative lapel pins that look like this. We can accomodate specialized engraving if a large lot is purchased.

For example:

Honor the Unsung

How many can we put you down for Reilly?



BTW, anybody ever see the Dean Paschall interview?
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Jan 28, 2019 - 02:01pm PT
Speaking of plane crashes: I remember, sometime in the 1950s, as an eight year old or maybe a bit older kid, a plane coming down near Curry Village on the side of Stoneman Meadow. I still remember the sound of the plane sputtering and then a pile of yellow wreckage in the middle of the street. Any body remember this or is it just a manifestation of old timer's syndrome. Just curious.
Trango

Mountain climber
Livermore, CA
Jan 28, 2019 - 03:18pm PT
Thanks for the photo edit gnome :)
Touque

Trad climber
Santacruzcalif
Jan 28, 2019 - 03:43pm PT
I was there living in the valley , we went up after the first group but we'll leave it at that but what an adventure. I'm remember the first group made pretty good , cars , climbing trips out of the country. Anyway good luck with your story . Matt
Sid Mo

climber
Mar 12, 2019 - 09:17pm PT
Six months and no word(s) from licky, despite the last message tease about completing his research. After some lame disclaimer about his lack of experience or expertise in making words flow on paper (despite previous defensiveness when criticized on same topic) TrickyLicky practically promised manuscript completion THAT year, 2018. He wrote in his last post : "I'm used to writting reports, getting the bottom of the line quickly."
I guess when tech writers like lick get to the bottom of the line (contrasting, I suppose, with getting to the bottom line) they do so without concern for proper spelling while doing their "writting."
So by his own schedule, he's over two months behind schedule. Licky, if you did receive an advance for publication you're a month away from getting collection calls from some thuggish skiptracers. Better hope they're not mobbed up with some members of whatever familia paid for the plane weed in Mexico back in '76. Now I'm worried. Say it ain't so, Licky. We're all praying that you're safe.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 12, 2019 - 09:19pm PT
Last seen on the
Sierra High Route!
JOEY.F

Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
Mar 12, 2019 - 10:40pm PT
^ouch^
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 12, 2019 - 11:53pm PT
^ Ric has heard much worse here

He can stand any heat

And he knows I totally support his book efforts
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Mar 13, 2019 - 02:14pm PT
I”ll write a book on the crash before Lick publishes.








And I have no intention of doing it.
johntp

Trad climber
Punter
Mar 13, 2019 - 03:03pm PT
I”ll write a book on the crash before Lick publishes.

The book is this thread. Distill it down and there's the book.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 13, 2019 - 06:38pm PT
I suggested this years ago and Ric could still do it.

Serialize his work in progress and publish as magazine-like articles.

Could even earn some money.

Or just follow BVB's take on the whole thing.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
Mar 14, 2019 - 08:26am PT
^^^ouch
Barbarian

climber
Mar 14, 2019 - 03:54pm PT
Am I really the only person on this 11 year plus long saga of butthurts that remembers ol' hippy hustler, Sid?

Nope. No the only one. (Though he has no idea who I am).
Risk

Mountain climber
Marooned, 855 miles from Tuolumne Meadows
Mar 14, 2019 - 04:10pm PT
Am I really the only person on this 11 year plus long saga of butthurts that remembers ol' hippy hustler, Sid?

Valley scammer. Boystown bottom feeder. King of the derelicts. A public nuisance, as I recall.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 14, 2019 - 08:33pm PT
The book is like the mueller report . Will America ever see it . Did the boys town bottom feeder play trombone ?
Weenis

Trad climber
Tel Aviv
Mar 15, 2019 - 01:38pm PT
He won't remember me either. I was seventeen (my girlfriend was 18) and I had a few climbing friends in Boystown and The Terrace. I can well recall the time that somebody showed me an old army foot locker with some goldlines and antiquated hardware on the side of a tent in The Terrace. They told me that it was Sid's stuff and that he climbed at The Apron a lot. They further elaborated about him. There were a few occasions when he was present that confirmed our feelings.
HeldUp

climber
Former YNP VIP Ranger
Mar 18, 2019 - 09:11am PT
I recall a light plane crash the summer I worked as a backcountry ranger in 1986. It might have been up near Tuolumne Meadows. No MJ (that's our story and we're sticking to it).
Sid Mo

climber
Mar 18, 2019 - 11:58am PT
Are you guys jealous because I had more to spend than you did and rarely worked? I sure didn't make a dime off you or anyone in Yosemite, unless you paid too much at a Stones concert or a Lakers game in the 70s. Sorry to bust your bubble but that was my scam, my only hustle. I wished I had more sometimes but I didn't. I came to the valley to spend my money I "hustled" in the big city. Helped curry pay your check. And the only goldline I ever had was in LA. I used it for a winter in 73 to top rope at Stony Point. If you were trespassing in some other guys stuff and saw a goldline it wasnt mine, you f*#king idiot.
Sid Mo

climber
Mar 18, 2019 - 12:03pm PT
You guys crack me up. Why would I care if you remember me? Or if the bitch I dumped after stabbing me with a pair of scissors went for a pathetic hit by my good friend Handy? Or if you think I'm wrong to burn Licky? Or if you think I'm right? Why would I care at all? Even if I saw you every day, why would I care what you think of me, or anything else? How in the world do you think your insults hurt me? What makes any of us so pretentious that we believe anyone cares what we think now? Again I ask all the anonymous accusers, what, exactly, did I "hustle" you out of? Nothing in Yosemite. I scalped tickets in LA and the bay area, my only "hustle." Never closer to Yosemite than Mountain Aire in Angel's Camp
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 18, 2019 - 05:59pm PT
Why would I care if you remember me?
You are lonely

Or if the bitch I dumped after stabbing me with a pair of scissors went for a pathetic hit by my good friend Handy?

A helping handy to staunch the blood flow


Or if you think I'm wrong to burn Licky?

Ask the Taking Heads

Or if you think I'm right?


Right as reign of course


Why would I care at all?

Putting a little love in your heart

Even if I saw you every day, why would I care what you think of me, or anything else?

You are insecure


How in the world do you think your insults hurt me?

What hurts you only makes you stronger

What makes any of us so pretentious that we believe anyone cares what we think now?

Hubris


Again I ask all the anonymous accusers, what, exactly, did I "hustle" you out of?

Before you accuse me
Take a look at ...



Try the religion thread

Or start one like What is "SIDMO"?
Sid Mo

climber
Mar 19, 2019 - 08:24pm PT
Are you having fun yet Zboy? You guys are hilarious, wasting your time attacking me when this is about Lick. Employing the cut-and-paste communication style that relies on the assumption that others are as outraged as you about what someone else wrote. Your righteous indignation at the words I wrote and you repeated may be an individual affliction, or perhaps you're one of many who have no capacity for opinions contrary to their own, but lack the ability to stop reading what offends them. So, you make up for your linguistic inability by repeating those statements that offend thee. You must not be articulate nor intelligent enough to craft your own witty repartee.
So I guess I should thank you, since your attempt at stifling my voice has instead amplified it, by repeating what I said. Man up, Zboy and write something. Don't take the easy route and repeat others ad nauseam, instead say something original to attack me. I only respond to your insults to point out their idiocy, I'd rather single out Licky for his vanity charade and pompous arrogance, not you for your meddlesome distraction focusing on my posts. Why dont you tell us what a great job Licky's doing. Maybe you could work for Fox news.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Mar 19, 2019 - 08:29pm PT
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 19, 2019 - 08:38pm PT
Mouse, do I have time to go crap while it loads?
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 19, 2019 - 08:50pm PT
You post bullsheeit here all the time Sic mo

And what's worse

You do not enjoy it except in a very sick and perverted way


You do it to get a response

You got one

So go back to sleep

Fool

Don't ask questions if you can't handle truthful answers

Pussy_mo


Go grab yourself and try to get some rest

Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Mar 20, 2019 - 01:07am PT
the bitch I dumped after stabbing me with a pair of scissors

It would be safe to say she dumped you....
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 20, 2019 - 06:39am PT
Mouse ...don’t leave Reilly waiting with a down load !
Sid Mo

climber
Mar 20, 2019 - 06:46am PT
Download this you morons:
I'm a distraction that takes the heat off Lick, if you guys had heat instead of misplaced sympathy. Licky played most of us for fools by offering up a glimpse of our past, a time that was probably infinately better than the one in which we now find our aging bodies and creaking bones. Out of the dark web comes some fella with a story to steal, and dangles the bait of a published account of our greatest glory. I corresponded, quickly smelled a rat, and began to write critically, begging to differ. Some of you were honest enough to agree, others began to argue. Many lost patience with the side topic and migrated into the camp that focused on attacking the messenger.
Those of you backing Licky got smitten, like a schoolboy when a purty gal smiles. You wrote posts, getting friendly with this snake oil salesman as he gleaned you of your data like a hacked website steals folks' info and passes it around. So Lick's operation expands both annually and exponentially to the point that he is either satisfied with his catch or ready to print. But what's the catch? To know that we have to know what Lick was fishing for - we know what he used for bait.
If the goal was really a book he failed. If the goal was information he scored. Your anonymity was destroyed so you cling to the hope that you're right, that a book is indeed forthcoming, albeit one that's been delayed a decade. And you individually attack the naysayers that dare to impugn the reputation of your hero Licky. Much as teabaggers and congressional Republicans defend Trumpybear when he pontificates, overpromises, compromises, underdelivers, obfuscates, fabricates, misunderstands, misappropriates, insults, lies and threatens, you, the sycophants on here that blindly follow your leader, look like suckers and naive fools. You call me crazy with vague deductions based on your opinions rather than evidence or psychiatric education and to protect your guy Licky make up lies about things like goldlines. For the record I never used a goldline outside Southern California. Ever. Not that it matters, but someone came up with that ridiculous lie or mismemory to attack me personally, as if I didn't climb with fancy nylon kernmantle ropes like you elite stone masters did. As if you even know. And the backhanded sneer about the Apron insults every climber that ever enjoyed a route on Glacier Point, from the Grack to Harry Daley to Anchors Aweigh. I may have met every one of you, or not. You may or may not remember with any degree of accuracy. It don't matter. All I ever stated that matters is that Licky will never publish. So far, I have not been proven wrong. The rest is padding, the gist of which is, again, (please forgive the caps)
LICKY WILL NEVER PUBLISH (IF HE EVER EVEN MEANT TO AT ALL)
WBraun

climber
Mar 20, 2019 - 08:36am PT
LOL .... the st00pid Skid Mo gets OWNED!

Ha Ha Ha

Skid Mo ... you were a nutcase back then and still a nutcase now .....

kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Mar 20, 2019 - 08:47am PT
Just for you, Sidmo

[Click to View YouTube Video]

[Click to View YouTube Video]
labrat

Trad climber
Erik O. Auburn, CA
Mar 20, 2019 - 11:10am PT
That rant of Sid Mo's was actually one his best pieces of writing! I actually enjoyed it.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Mar 20, 2019 - 12:31pm PT
His screed would indeed have knocked back socks of Dear Departed Sycorax, I'm thinkin'.

a well-deserved +1

RJ, Reilly can handle it.🙉
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Mar 20, 2019 - 12:40pm PT
This thread is so much better with Sid. A good story has conflict and Sid brings loads.

This reminds me of the valley guide book thread. Older guys without much spare time want to write a comprehensive history needing tons of work and it takes forever or longer. We’d like to see it but who cares? It’s their lives they prioritize what they want. I’m not pining away for either book. If it happens I’ll be pleasantly surprised.

I don’t see any nefarious intentions. What’s this info worth? Why sit on it? If you have stories having them told in this thread or maybe someday in a book is better than going to the grave silently with you. Tell them.

I guess the only thing that would be lame is an author hoarding the info to sit in a computer file and die with them silently.
WBraun

climber
Mar 20, 2019 - 01:32pm PT
or maybe someday in a book is better than going to the grave silently with you. Tell them.


Not everything needs to be told to the public .....
Barbarian

climber
Mar 20, 2019 - 01:42pm PT
I am not aware that Licky "owes" us anything. I see no reason to push for the swift completion of the book. Whether he chooses to publish the book or not his decision alone.

Why someone is getting so butthurt over this is beyond me.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Mar 20, 2019 - 01:57pm PT
Everyone blames the pilot but consider the conditions he was flying under.
Russ Walling

Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
Mar 20, 2019 - 02:27pm PT
Have you guys seen the link for the gofundme for self publishing? Finally, the story is going to print! 'bout time I guess...
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 20, 2019 - 02:46pm PT
The buck stops in the left seat. Nobody was holding a gun to his head.

B737 Max? How come it’s Indonesians and Ethiopians crashing ‘em? Guess what? There have been a number of identical incidents here with airlines I will not name but it was NBD - they had pilots who knew how to fly.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Mar 20, 2019 - 02:48pm PT
The cargo should have kept the planes nose high.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Mar 26, 2019 - 01:49pm PT
This thread is so much better with Sid. A good story has conflict and Sid brings loads.

It's like Tourette's but a lot less interesting. Never go full retard.
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Mar 26, 2019 - 10:58pm PT
Seems 'ol Sidmo actually does care what folks think.
He sure made that evident.

How's it going so far Reilly? Still hanging?
Sid Mo

climber
Mar 27, 2019 - 09:03am PT
Yeah I want you to think. I dont want to live in a society of morons, although between you Lickylovers and Trump's people it seems that I am. To clarify, I dont mind people agreeing with me, in fact I like it. BUT. I dont care if you dislike me, for any ridiculous reason you might have. I dont care if you ignore me. I don't care if you attack me. It only makes you look more stupid, if that's even possible
WBraun

climber
Mar 27, 2019 - 09:06am PT
Skid Mo says; "I dont want to live in a society of morons,"

You sure are one of them .....lol
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Mar 30, 2019 - 02:34am PT
That was sidmo's 293rd post about not giving a sh#t.

Sidmo, I'll bet you one hundred american dollars that you will be unable to prevent yourself from responding to this post.

Ready, go.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
Mar 30, 2019 - 06:17pm PT
I was talking to Sidmo. He says he’s not responding to your post. You owe him a hundred bucks.
Sid Mo

climber
Apr 1, 2019 - 06:22am PT
As I don't reply to his post tell him to send my C-note to charity. He owes me now, and if he doesn't donate that money he'll be a liar. Then that guy whom I will not name nor respond to and Licky will have their dishonesty in common. Licky began this thread on a lie, so he will be in good company.
Don Paul

Social climber
Washington DC
Apr 10, 2019 - 02:18pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Set to Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata.
tolman_paul

Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
Apr 10, 2019 - 02:46pm PT
The buck stops in the left seat. Nobody was holding a gun to his head.

B737 Max? How come it’s Indonesians and Ethiopians crashing ‘em? Guess what? There have been a number of identical incidents here with airlines I will not name but it was NBD - they had pilots who knew how to fly.

And the 737 max isn't the first instance of a commercial airplane crash where the crew didn't have the skills the turn off the autopilot, grab the controls and fly the plane when required.
WBraun

climber
Apr 10, 2019 - 04:51pm PT
There is rumor Airbus hacked/sabotaged Boeings software on those planes which caused the crashes.

The malware in the software prevented a manual override.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 10, 2019 - 05:04pm PT
When Airbus introduced auto-throttles in the early 90’s there was an epidemic of crashes in the third world by yahoo pilots who didn’t know which mode they were in. They drove ‘em right into the ground fat, dumb, and happy, as the saying goes. This is just the same. That doesn’t excuse Boeing for not telling the airlines that they had added this ‘enhancement’. That is just another example of corporate arrogance. They put these features in so they can sell these planes to countries who have pilots that have no business flying these planes. That Ethiopean pilot was still at TO power when they crashed. Are you kidding me? And his ‘co-pilot’ had 200 total hours! 200 hours shouldn’t get you into the right seat of a tuk-tuk, let alone a B737!
AE

climber
Boulder, CO
May 17, 2019 - 05:09pm PT
As the legendary Licky last posted on Aug 23, 2018, we breathlessly anticipate at least one final, incandescent, superlative tome to fittingly close out the saga, running since May of 2005.
Does this suggest the running battle herein contributed in some manner, to the demise of the Supertopo universe?
The disturbing portion of Chris's explanation for the termination of the forum, "increased potential costs in the future, both in time and legal costs, due to litigation related to inappropriate posts by a minority of forum members" should send shivers down the back of anyone who champions freedom of speech. I would like to know more details regarding what litigation was involved, as I would imagine the forum is only offering a, well, forum, for the free interchange of ideas and opinions; it is not directly fostering libel or slander and so it would seem to be insulated from such actions. Info Wars it ain't.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Portland Oregon
May 17, 2019 - 06:44pm PT
Everyone blames the pilot but consider the conditions he was flying under.

Contact high?
Risk

Mountain climber
Marooned, 855 miles from Tuolumne Meadows
May 31, 2019 - 10:47pm PT
So, what about the book? And how are we going to know when it's out?
JOEY.F

Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
May 31, 2019 - 10:52pm PT
^^^
Countdown t-70 minutes:)
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 31, 2019 - 11:14pm PT







Sure looks like answers won't be addressed tonight or will it ever??

Tic Toc 40 minutes


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