Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 12 of total 12 in this topic |
BomberJam
climber
Midwest :(
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 28, 2008 - 11:29am PT
|
a) Set up the hauling device and back up the haul line on the slack side (with desired knot). Have the cleaner release the haul bag. 3rd would then be jugging the haul line through the haul device.
b) Same as above except back up is a prussick on load side of hauling device. 3rd would be jugging on back up instead of hauling device.
c) Leader fixes the haul line has the 3rd jug like hell and then they set up the haul and have the bag released by the 2nd once the 3rd makes it to the belay. 3rd jugs fixed line and haul is set up after they make the belay.
What do you think is the best method for the 3rd jugging the haul line? What do you do?
Thanks in advance for any responses
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2008 - 11:44am PT
|
actually, the leader can pull up some haul line slack, fix the rope, and set up the haul rig using the slack so that when the 3rd reaches the belay, you just unfix the haul line and you're ready to go.
On a wall, everyone should be thinking of what they could be doing during any down time
PEace
Karl
|
|
Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2008 - 12:33pm PT
|
option b. Only use a kliemheist munter-muled to the anchor.
I only prefer jugging the hauline on pushes when the haul bag is light. In that case you can usually just hoist it up by hand to put it in the pulley after jugging. With a full camping load I'd just assume bring an extra rope.
|
|
coiler
Trad climber
The Rock Monkey Ranch
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2008 - 01:06pm PT
|
There is no good way to do that, and it should be AVOIDED. The thing to do with a team of 3 is have a second lead line that the third man jugs up and ties into. He's now ready for his next pitch. The last leader is now belaying the third man while he hauls with the guy who is now at the last belay with the bags. You've also got a backup lead line in case one gets the chop.
Just make sure to fix the third man's seperate lead line far away from the hauling anchor so the two systems don't clustef*ck.
If it's a huge load or multiple loads. the third man can also belay himself on this seperate line and be a counterweight for the loads below. OR just jug up quick and get on belay, Keep the ropes moving up the wall!
don't skimp on ropes with a team of three. You're just eliminating more options and backups! One rope for every climber.
Backup your backup on a wall, that's my motto!
|
|
nick d
Trad climber
nm
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2008 - 01:39pm PT
|
Remember the recent fatality in Zion when you are thinking about jugging a loaded line. My take on it is that it's a bad idea, better to take another rope. Gives you a spare lead line if you need it.
edit: for link to discussion of that tragedy, much good info.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=701629
|
|
BomberJam
climber
Midwest :(
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 28, 2008 - 05:06pm PT
|
Thanks for the feedback everyone. Just trying to get a 3 man setup thought through in my head before its a reality.
I never thought of every climber having their own rope just for back up reasons but its never a bad idea.
Thanks again!
|
|
Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2008 - 06:18pm PT
|
I've never been on a route where the hauline didn't run over at least one edge. Even the leaning tower. Add a climber above a load of heavy bags and you are putting a lot of weight on the line at that edge. If nothing else it just can be really scary for the jugger.
I'd bring the extra rope not as a backup, but as the primary line for the third to jug on.
Personally I've made exceptions to that rule when trying to climb fast, keeping the extra ropes and gear to a minimum. When doing this I udse a mini- trax to back up my jugs. I also take extra care lowering out the pig and jugger and watch the edges closely. It's a good idea to bring an edge protector for the rope in this case.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2008 - 06:23pm PT
|
Lambone "I'd bring the extra rope not as a backup, but as the primary line for the third to jug on."
Yes, good sound advice.
|
|
BomberJam
climber
Midwest :(
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 28, 2008 - 10:42pm PT
|
I really appreciate the advice everyone. Funny that you mention the leaning tower as that will probably be the "wall" our 3 man team will be heading up.
Should be a welcome change compared to the Southwest face of Liberty Cap.
|
|
BomberJam
climber
Midwest :(
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 28, 2008 - 10:46pm PT
|
Oh and by welcome change, that is nothing against the route. More against topping out at night with no water or headlamps.
Oh being a wall noob
Thanks again everyone
|
|
'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2008 - 11:08pm PT
|
Jugging a haul line weighted by a pig - even if it's hanging from a knot directly into the anchor - is way scary!
Either have your third man jug like crazy, or bring another rope. The Better Way is whatever works best for you.
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Nov 30, 2008 - 09:34pm PT
|
Why climb in a party of three on a Grade V in the first place if you are trying to figure out your systems?
The three man system is only time efficient if the third jugs quickly and proceeds to lead the next pitch leaving the second to clean and then haul the bags. If you are combining pitches and have little or no excess rope to contribute toward leading the next pitch, then a third rope must come into play anyhow.
Have the top man survey the remaining rack in case backcleaning gear from the lead in place is desireable. Assuming that you can jug reasonably quickly with any necessary gear for the pitch ahead, the haul line will work fine but must be tensioned after you get off of it so that the bag can leave the station to allow the third to clean the station, the pitch and eventually haul the bags so that the haul line can be progressively freed up for the next pitch.
Both ends of the third rope can be used as lead and haul ropes until the original haul line becomes available or a fourth tagline will need to be employed as a trail rope. Having an extralong dedicated hauling rope (+20m) comes in handy if you are going to spend a lot of time in threesomes. Otherwise the leader is going to have to stop and wait for the hauling to start before being able to get too much more than 50' into the next pitch.
The extra weight and logistics involved in a party of three usually offset any gain in efficiency if you are just sorting this stuff out. Try to keep the bag as light as possible if you are planning to do the Leaning Tower so the descent is more reasonable. Ahwahnee Ledge is fat for three laying down. Start early to reach it after four original pitches.
|
|
| Messages 1 - 12 of total 12 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!