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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Oct 27, 2008 - 12:43pm PT
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I'd welcome an updated list personally. It could illuminate a lot of great routes for folks and I'd love to hear the detailed history on them.
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Anastasia
climber
Not there
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Oct 27, 2008 - 12:45pm PT
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Nice! I like it!
AF
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Oct 27, 2008 - 12:47pm PT
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Wow....I've got a long way to go.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Oct 27, 2008 - 12:50pm PT
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Keep it up Chris (no pun intended).
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Oct 27, 2008 - 12:57pm PT
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My advice is no. They will become the 100 supercrowded classics.
I'd rather you spent your time on topos for new areas or adding new climbs to current areas.
SEKI and Needles could use some supertopo quality treatment!
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Chris2
Trad climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:00pm PT
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Having met a few people trying to do all the "Fifty Classics," this could create a new challenge.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:04pm PT
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'They will become the 100 supercrowded classics.'
Most already are. Not a lot of big secrets on that list.
I wonder how these books sell- the Roper/Steck did pretty well; how about the 50 Favorites? Did they make money on that? Most of those routes are pretty hard, too, not so attainable for Joe Supertopo, but the book still did OK I think, judging from peoples' bookshelves.
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:07pm PT
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There are so many routes at Tahquitz better than the Mechanics Route (which is also rather run out). And it is hard to take the selection seriously without including The Vampire -- hands down the best route in the area.
Fish Hook on Russell? Mithral is the obvious choice -- an amazing line.
The Snaz is the "safe" (and already overcrowded) choice, but Caveat Emptor is very much the superior climb.
Arizona -- Granite Mt has some amazing climbs.
Overall the list is perhaps too safe.
Glad you decided to exclude Josh, nothing worthwhile there at all.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:12pm PT
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Chris
I'm surpised you didn't add any route on the Diamond,
east face of Long's Peak in Colorado, say the Casual Route,
Yellow Wall. . . D7.
Culp Bossier on Hallet's Peak
The Petit Grepon
In Utah there could be tons more. . .
Great idea, though!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:14pm PT
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He didn't - quite. The northeast buttress of Slesse is in Canada, and approached from Canada.
There's something to be said for a North American aspect to it - Canada + Mexico + other place. Though winnowing it down to 100 would be hard - maybe 500 or 1,000 would do it. Especially if you're including both rock and alpine climbs.
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:17pm PT
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Tami, Just a though, but it could be that Canada has so many great climbs it would overshadow other good routes in the US... Oh, and it was titled 100 Classic Climbs in the US...
Edit: Oops looks like a Canuk route slipped in there anyway...
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:19pm PT
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Just put in 110 routes and advertise "10% extra free bonus climbs"
Why lock into the standard number?
;-)
Karl
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:19pm PT
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Chris,
I would toss out Colorado, Ellingwood Arete on La Plata Peak. For the vast majority of the ridge, 20 feet down and east of the ridge crest is a class 2 trail. Yeah, there is probably a pitch of low 5th class about 3/4 of the way up the route, but if you do anymore 5th class climbing (or 4th class climbing for that matter) on this route you are going way out of your way to avoid easy trail hiking.
The climb is a major fun outing, but there really isn't much rock climbing at all.
Bruce
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:22pm PT
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Listing the Mechanic's Route on Tahquitz would likely increase the traffic eight or nine fold. A good route, but a surprisingly unheralded one that doesn't see all that much traffic, unlike most of the other routes listed.
Too be honest, while it's hard to argue with your route selection, I'm just as happy to see certain routes excluded lest I have to stand in line to climb them once the book comes out.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:22pm PT
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How about 100 Classic Unknowns..spread out the traffic a bit. Or would that just ruin a bunch of locals' favorites?
BTW, the Nose on Looking Glass has pretty average climbing, isn't especially sustained, and really has little else going for it besides historical value. Other neighboring routes in the Nose area offer a lot more of that 'sea of brows' feeling, ie. Peregrine. Hard to beat the Cornflake for all of the above: great climbing, historically significant, cool ledges, and no one's calling it a 1-move wonder. Or Tits and Beer, at 5.9. Uh, Stone Mountain?
The North Chimney on Castleton is okay, but its principal virtue is the accessible grade. The North Face is way better.
Otto's Route is decidedly non-classic, as far as the climbing goes- lots of 4th-class gullies, lots of drilled holds, and a cool topout pitch do not a classic make. It's unique, thank god for that, but not exactly stacked with great pitches.
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:23pm PT
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I an see choosing the Durrance Route on Devils Tower for historical reasons, but there are much better lines in my opinion...
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:24pm PT
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Given that there are already two other books out there and the website which expanded the original 50 Classics I would say skip the project and work on the guides.
Besides with any list there will be lots of griping. For instance, nothing was listed at Seneca Rocks, The Gunks, Linville Gorge, etc. All have classic multipitch climbs. And of course Steck and Roper caught lots of comments about the list being CA centric. This list is the same.
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:26pm PT
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Chris - there are some classics at Index, WA, particularly the upper wall.
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seamus mcshane
climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:31pm PT
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Great idea.
Don't do it.
Dream tick lists should be left to dreams.
Besides, backlash is inevitable from haters, Mick Ryan had to leave the States. Too many death threats. 8)
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:58pm PT
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The Ourom route on sphinx is down to three pitches nowadays with longer ropes...
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the museum
Trad climber
Rapid City, SD
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Oct 27, 2008 - 02:01pm PT
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Aye TK, but the Durrance is ALREADY destroyed - it's covered with human grease and rubber. Let the hordes continue to abuse the one route. !!!
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Oct 27, 2008 - 02:13pm PT
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Karl Wrote: " Just put in 110 routes and advertise "10% extra free bonus climbs"
Why lock into the standard number?"
I don't know if you should do it or not, but I think Karl's insight as to the number is a great idea.
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Oct 27, 2008 - 02:15pm PT
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Indian Creek?
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Oct 27, 2008 - 02:16pm PT
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Leave the damn Creek alone!
If Deto basalt can get worn out, imagine Wingate in 100 years.
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seamus mcshane
climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 02:17pm PT
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I like Tami's idea better, how about not having a round #, like 107?
Still, there could be death threats...
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Churningindawake
Sport climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 27, 2008 - 02:26pm PT
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Oregon:
The West Face Variation, or Monkey Space, are more classic than the Pioneer Route on Monkey Face.
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Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
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Oct 27, 2008 - 02:33pm PT
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I feel like a few sport lines from the Red or the New should go in here... but maybe these areas aren't old enough to be classic yet.
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Oct 27, 2008 - 02:34pm PT
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Good point museum...stick with the Durrance...
Glad it's in agreement that there is nothing classic in MT...
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apogee
climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 02:42pm PT
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The widely varying and humorous opinions posted here thusfar makes a good rationale for NOT creating such a list...
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Bart Fay
Social climber
Redlands, CA
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Oct 27, 2008 - 03:03pm PT
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My Vote: Do it !
Good idea. Entertaining. Why knott ? Overcrowding... too late.
And, except for the start, Whodunit really isn't much to write home about.
Oh, like Nef' said below, Royal Arches is a pleasant hike, but there is almost no
actual climbing to enjoy.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
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Oct 27, 2008 - 03:04pm PT
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Royal Arches? Really? Even East Butt of EC is debatable... But Royal Arches is mostly 3rd class scrambling. Even when there is climbing, it's not terribly interesting - low angle .6 crack climbing. There's really only one good pitch on the thing, which is the chimney start. I guess there's a kinda decent one up high.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Oct 27, 2008 - 04:45pm PT
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criteria for selection first, then you'll get the list.
most of the first batch seem to be long routes.
bias? or criteria?
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Oct 27, 2008 - 04:57pm PT
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Maybe the new Yosemite Free Climbs Supertopo book should only include the Royal Arches...this could really concentrate traffic where it belongs.
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HJ
climber
Bozeman, Montana
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Oct 27, 2008 - 05:25pm PT
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Best of books only cause problems as already mentioned, over-crowding, ego-aggarandizement, etc. What is really needed is 50 epic grovels...
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craig mo
Trad climber
L.A. Ca.
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Oct 27, 2008 - 08:26pm PT
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100 classic climbing locations.
some times its the place thats classic.
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TC
Social climber
No matter where you go, there you are.
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Oct 27, 2008 - 09:26pm PT
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Chris, it's good to see that you will include
High Sierra Clyde Minaret Southeast Face
It's been a long time coming.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Oct 27, 2008 - 10:06pm PT
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Although not a Supertopo book....Dick DuMais has already done such a book;..called Great American Rock Climbs....which has probably 2/3 of your list, and his whole list is excellent;...sure ;...you can do the "topo" thing is the "super" way;...but it would be recycled, regurgitated, resurfaced, copycat, yesterday's papers, yawn, over-done, re-take, rematch, floatsome, jetsome, wank, nOOb, no-where, nohow, nobody, see-ya.......(I'm sure it would be an awesome book, but it HAS already sort of been done;.........although The DuMais really can't be taken too seriously for it does NOT have The Vampire on Tahquitz....AND it has Joshua Tree and everyone knows that there aren't ANY * routes at Joshua Tree......maybe it IS time to do it up correctly.......................)
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dogtown
climber
Where I once was,I think?
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Oct 27, 2008 - 10:08pm PT
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Chris;
I would add some Idyllwild routes to your list
Insomnia 5.11a/b
Valhalla 5.11a
The Vampire 5.11a
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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Oct 27, 2008 - 10:21pm PT
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I would go with Walt Bailey Memorial as THE classic Devils Tower crack and I think Bon Homme Variation has the best 300 feet of 5.7 Hand crack in the country- andI know cuz I've done all the others
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Jennie
Trad climber
Idaho Falls
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Oct 27, 2008 - 11:46pm PT
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Mixed emotions about the “Teton Classics”on the list….. they’re classics but not necessarily the best climbs in the range. Way too much traffic already on the Direct Exum, yet the Beyer East face and NW Ridge are better routes. Irene’s Arete gets excessive attention but there are other rock climbs nearly as good, with little traffic.
I’m opposed to lists that serve to funnel climbers onto a few select routes rather than explore the varied manifestations of a range.
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Degaine
climber
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Oct 28, 2008 - 08:53am PT
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Seems like an interesting enough idea.
Don't know why you'd want to inlcude anything from the Needles on that list, that place is choss. Spend time, money, ink and paper on an area much more worthy of consideration. As far as I'm concerned the quicker that place is forgotten and falls into oblivion, the better. I'd rather go climbing at the Auburn quarry.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 28, 2008 - 10:31am PT
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To be honest Chris, and please don't be offended, the list appears to be centered around a single climber's (yours?) experience.
When I look at the Utah selections, a bunch of routes in only three areas, it appears to leave wide gaps.
Perhaps you should pursue more of a censensus type list.
I'm not sure if I should be insulted that none of my routes are included, but they are crowded and abused enough so could you please keep it that way?
cheers
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 28, 2008 - 11:39am PT
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It's a catch-22 eh? If a route gets "Super Topo-ed" then it becomes much more popular. (unless it's insanely popular to begin with.
If you choose the secondary super-classics, they become the super-classics. Is that better or worse.
There are only so many of us climbing and we climb something or other. The routes that aren't super-topo-ed are suddenly easier to get on.
That's why, even though I think Chris is a great, and I love Supertopos, I'm careful what I write in the forum.
Pick your poison, nobody stays home from climbing because of the book, they just choose the route from a book
Peace
karl
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Oct 28, 2008 - 12:03pm PT
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I think Chris and his business have enough standing in the topo-buying community to take the 100 Classic Grovels concept to a whole new level:
100 Classic Climbs that are Way the Hell Out There, Nearly Impossible to Find, and May Not Even Exist.
Then, instead of queuing up for Nutcracker, the helmeted hordes will spend all their time thrashing about in the shrubbery in search of the (possibly fictional) Classic Must-Do Route, having unscripted adventures, and generally staying out of the way of all the cool kids who inhabit the Taco Stand (that's you).
Everybody wins. The n00bz all get to recreate the thrill of new-routing- endless shwacking, uncertainty of outcome, dirt choss weeds and vermin, character-building route-finding (in every sense), and will come away very proud of themselves for Having Had an Adventure. And the rest of us can finally get on the Nutcracker for the first time in 15 years.
Some candidates:
Cloud's Rest- make up some BS beta, close your eyes and draw a line on a photo taken from Olmstead Pt., and you're done.
Panorama Point- did you hear about the new classic 5.8 over there? It's all bolted! I think Sean Jones had something to do with it.
Eagle Peak- firstoff, there's two of them, within a few miles of each other, both on the north rim of the Valley. Let's make this one that metamorphic rubbleheap above El Portal, although this information will remain unclear in the guide. Park at Crane Creek and commence shwacking. Don't ferget yer Tecnu!
Um, the entire Black Canyon of the Gunnison NP, exclusive of the Chasm View walls. A thousand gumbies could disappear every day for a year before anyone noticed.
Let's put one mega-starred Must Send line somewhere up on the Book Cliffs, how about a few miles east of Green River....it's a three-pitch hand crack. With big footholds, Red-Rocks style. Yeah, that's the ticket. 5.9, but soft for the grade.
You won't sell many books to Easterners (except in Las Vegas) unless you excavate a few Eastern Mega-Classics, so....an imaginary lake in the Adirondacks? Western Maine? How about the Chattooga Cliffs? Anyone ever hiked out to those things? I have, and the climbing is great, but there's, um, no Supertopo. Yet.
Help me out here, Cascade aldermen. Nothing do do for half the year in Seattle but sip your coffee and peruse your newest armchair aspiration list. That thing those two guys did a couple years abo that they spotted from a plane- 5.11X, three-day approach, no-pro, no-falls-- I heard it's cleaned up to a family-friendly .10a. If you stay on route. EDIT: MisterE's Devil's Club!
Big Bend: isn't there an El Capitan down there?
I can't wait.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Oct 28, 2008 - 01:19pm PT
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Funny thing about doing a guide to any list of routes is that climbers like to second-guess and pick on your choices. Best to just do it and not try to organize the list by committee. I always liked Steck and Roper's take on it. "Make your own list, this one is ours."
A buddy and I talked about doing a guide like this one, but we were going to call it 100 Routes that Don't Suck. Bet we would still have gotten a bunch of horse hockey about some of the routes.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Oct 28, 2008 - 01:51pm PT
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Um, you're a pretty good climber..that's a different list.
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the museum
Trad climber
Rapid City, SD
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Oct 28, 2008 - 02:52pm PT
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Right, as TK put it, there is no classic climbing in MT.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Oct 28, 2008 - 02:58pm PT
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"Chris;
I would add some Idyllwild routes to your list
Insomnia 5.11a/b
Valhalla 5.11a
The Vampire 5.11a"
Thanks blabber mouth. Not enough crowds on these for you?
Is there anything wrong with letting people discover an area for themselves?
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Oct 28, 2008 - 03:34pm PT
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Why not put something in that's wild and really North Cascades-y - something maybe from the Picket Range in WA (South Face of Inspiration or North Ridge of Fury, or one of the recent traverses).
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Fulford
climber
Canmore, Alberta
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Oct 29, 2008 - 10:22pm PT
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"I realize that best of books have their issues". Who are you kidding? ALL your guidebooks are best of books - that's why I own most of them.
I've spent most of the last 5 years road-tripping all over the USA (including AK) doing mostly classic, long, trad and alpine routes. I've compiled a "best of" list along the way which I would be happy to share with you.
From what I understand, some Canadian lads are already working on a "best of canada" book, so you might be better off sticking with the US theme despite what my s-teamed col-eeg knight sugjest eh.
Shoot me an e-mail if you are interested - I don't really want to post the list on-line.
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timeless61
Mountain climber
Seattle
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Oct 29, 2008 - 11:16pm PT
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Chris,
Have you decided on criteria for the list? I can think of some routes I might suggest if I had an idea of what guidelines you were using to evaluate what routes make the list. What is important: length, difficuly, popularity, sustained nature, variety, scenery, etc?
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Oct 29, 2008 - 11:30pm PT
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It's no secret that Valhalla, Insomnia, and The Vampire or classics;...STILL;....they are FAR from crowded......People have been calling The Vampire "The best climb in So. California for decades.".......and at 5.11-, it's well within the reach of many climbers;.....yet one would not call the climb crowded;...same with Insomnia;...another steller dick-wrenching mega-classic;....as good as any climb anywhere;....yet I have walked by the climb over 100 X.....yet seen parties on it maybe a dozen times.........I have always found this very interesting,...what the hell is up with that?........(As for protecting these great climbs from the masses;.....I wouldn't lose any sleep over it;...it just isn't gonna happen......if it hasn't happened yet, I won't happen in the future;.....each year climbers stray farther and farther from the challenging trad climbs, and instead turn their gaze towards the Petzel hangers winkin' at them from the many sport climbs which have sprouted up like mushrooms.....)
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Oct 29, 2008 - 11:33pm PT
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I missed Ed's Crack on that list, but why make that one crowded?
And as far as Deto goes, let's keep the tradition of siphoning people through Durrance, first.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Oct 29, 2008 - 11:37pm PT
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It's no secret that Valhalla, Insomnia, and The Vampire or classics;...STILL;....they are FAR from crowded......People have been calling The Vampire "The best climb in So. California for decades.".......and at 5.11-, it's well within the reach of many climbers;.....yet one would not call the climb crowded;...same with Insomnia;...another steller dick-wrenching mega-classic;....as good as any climb anywhere;....yet I have walked by the climb over 100 X.....yet seen parties on it maybe a dozen times.........I have always found this very interesting,...what the hell is up with that?........(As for protecting these great climbs from the masses;.....I wouldn't lose any sleep over it;...it just isn't gonna happen......if it hasn't happened yet, I won't happen in the future;.....each year climbers stray farther and farther from the challenging trad climbs, and instead turn their gaze towards the Petzel hangers winkin' at them from the many sport climbs which have sprouted up like mushrooms.....) It's the same with the Needles and Canyon Tajo;....people try to protect these fabulous climbing areas by keeping them "secret"....well;.....they aint' secret , and they aren't crowded, ruined, or toast;......at least from the visits I've made to these areas;...they seem fairly quiet reguardless.......keep it real.......(How about those who say Joshua Tree is crowded?....please...the place is a ghost town;....as soon as you step away from Sail Away, Double Cross, Walk on the Wild Side, and Soapy Tit Wank.....)
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Oct 29, 2008 - 11:53pm PT
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RhodoRouter,
"Climbs that are Way the Hell Out There, Nearly Impossible to Find, and May Not Even Exist"
ya, this idea has been done before too.
Affectionately known as the "Maroon Book of Lies".
Garbage guide book but apparently a marketing success.
Don somebody or other's lame attempt to catalog Adirondacks climbing.
Now no longer relevant.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Oct 30, 2008 - 12:00am PT
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100 Classic Munge Climbs
discuss...
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Oct 30, 2008 - 02:17am PT
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'Glue sniffing Squishheads'
.12 Ow
Near Blanding, utah
about a mile north of that crag that Jello broke.
-1 pin can, destroy a classic finger crack and pull off a whole part of a crag.
it's Mungy, but awaiting a Munge/or any 2nd,
ascent.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 30, 2008 - 02:23am PT
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Lots of munge climbs around Squamish. Even more in the fjords further north. All unclimbed, but we can figure that out.
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tania noakes
Trad climber
Chamonix
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Oct 30, 2008 - 04:13am PT
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Oh.... nice list but please don't include Cochese Stronghold... it doesn't need to get any more popular... :(
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Impaler
Trad climber
Munich
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Oct 30, 2008 - 04:52am PT
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Chris,
I think that's a lame idea. The routes on your current list don't even have much in common. For somebody Royal Arches is a classic, but Astroman is well beyond their ability. However, for someone who can do Astroman 95% of the routes on the list have either been done already or not really worth the time. Then there's all the snow routes like Shasta that target a different audience all together.
I love your topos and will buy more books if there is more new material in them. Someone mentioned that SEKI needs a book. I agree 100%. There's also tons of beautiful high Sierra routes that could use a supertopo. Damn, incredible hulk alone could use a supertopo. 3 routes in your high sierra book are just not enough. It seemed like you already added a few high sierra routes that are not in the book to the online forum. Why not publish a book with a 100 (or better 200) high sierra routes and not just 27, some of which from the Tuolumne guidebook anyway? How popular was your "Selected Valley Climbs"? I've never seen anyone who owns one...
We need more comprehensive guides! Why do I have to own both Supertopo and Falcon guides for the same areas (Tahoe, Valley, Tuolumne, High Sierra)? The answer is simple: supertopo books are just way better, more accurate, and a pleasure to read. Your guides inspire me to get out there and do the routes. However, they lack comprehension that the Falcon guides have. Most often, the really awesome routes at higher difficulty grades are not even described, eventhough they are way better in quality than the easier piles that make it into your guides. Why?
Sorry, just had to let it out.
Vlad
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AbeFrohman
Trad climber
new york, NY
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Oct 30, 2008 - 08:06am PT
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NY you need an adirondack route. Maybe something on Poke-o-moonshine? Aya?
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona, Spain
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Oct 30, 2008 - 08:33am PT
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Braille Book is obviously better than Royal Arches, you knucklehead.
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Zetedog
Trad climber
PGH, PA
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Oct 30, 2008 - 08:43am PT
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Chris - For WV -
You might also want to include Summersvile Lake and/or New River Gorge
For Seneca Rocks: that destinations' Sweet spot is in the 5.6 to 5.8 range - I could recommend a dozen or so routes in that grade, but you might also want to contact either guide shops in there for their opinion (Seneca-rocks.com and senecarocks.com)
Also brings up an interesting twist to the book - Although Seneca has a number of good routes above 5.10, it has most of it's "classics" below that grade. Maybe supertopo the ideal route or routes, then offer suggestions for us punters that don't lead 5.11 trad.
ToddE.
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona, Spain
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Oct 30, 2008 - 08:56am PT
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Whoa, Double Cross and Figures on a Landscape, and all of JT have been passed over! Also, where's "Sally and Dan", a great TR problem at Hinckley, OH? While Shockley's Ceiling is a great place to air out the genitalia, I didn't think the climbing was super great.
Opinions are like as#@&%es, we all got 'em.
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ddriver
Trad climber
SLC, UT
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Oct 30, 2008 - 10:26am PT
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The obvious solution is to make it 1001 classic climbs and sell it to the euros for their road trips, like a cross of Harlin's series and Toula's guide.
Seriously, though, if you did that I would probably buy it as well. Not necessarily saying I'd WANT you to do it, but if you did...
Regardless of where you draw the line for a project like this, you need to establish some criteria for what you include. I don't see much purpose in putting Denali and Tahquitz in the same book. There's really no US coverage of alpine routes the way the euros have done their 4000-m peaks, e.g. That would have value. You could do the 500 best alpine rock routes. That would be a beautiful book and would spread the wealth a bit. Or you could do "best of trad crags" and include just multi-pitch cragging. That targets an audience and makes it easier to compare routes to include.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Oct 30, 2008 - 10:47am PT
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Idyllwild Tahquitz Mechanic's Route
What a piece of sh#t route.
Great Ultra Extreme not for lightwt pussies.
Vampire Direct, Insomnia, Magical Mystery Tour.
Juan
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Oct 30, 2008 - 12:33pm PT
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Your Gunks and especially NH lists sure are different from what I'd put.
GO
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
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Oct 30, 2008 - 01:36pm PT
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"'Glue sniffing Squishheads'
.12 Ow
Near Blanding, utah "
I'd be interested in some info about this climb, Jay. I spend a fair amount of time in the canyons around Blanding....
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Churningindawake
Sport climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 30, 2008 - 02:05pm PT
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It seems that Cat in the Hat is a really classic route of Red Rocks.
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Mike Pharris
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Oct 30, 2008 - 03:18pm PT
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Chris - for the Colorado list you should consider "Gambit" in Eldorado Canyon and perhaps "Pear Buttress" at Lumpy Ridge. Seems like you gotta have something at Lumpy in the Colorado list - I've not climbed it, but "Crack of Fear" on Twin Owls at Lumpy has one helluva reputation.
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tomtom
Social climber
Seattle, Wa
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Oct 30, 2008 - 03:31pm PT
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More Routes in Washington to Consider:
Green DragOn on the Upper Town Wall at Index (fun c2 aid climb)
North Ridge of Forbidden (great setting on the quiet side of the mountain)
Rebel Yell on the East Face of Chianti Spire (6p .10a)
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Oct 30, 2008 - 03:37pm PT
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Nef, there is a description of it and the other climbs in the area, in the Bjornstead desert rock addition that covers that area.
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HuecoRat
Trad climber
NJ
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Oct 30, 2008 - 04:34pm PT
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In New Mexico you should definitely include Warpy Moople, a brilliant 5.10 in the Sandias!
In Texas take a look at Indecent Exposure (5.9) at Hueco.
Just my 2 cents!
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Oct 30, 2008 - 06:23pm PT
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I can't touch the grade, but people who oughta know say Tague Yer Time is the best route in the Black Canyon. V, 5.12.
Sea of Holes at Hueco.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Oct 30, 2008 - 09:59pm PT
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I was going to suggest a couple of routes but the increased crowd comments brought me back to reality.
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Crag Q
Trad climber
Louisville, Colorado
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Oct 30, 2008 - 10:24pm PT
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I agree the "classics" books have been over done. However, there's a reason they're so popular. Everyone likes a nice juicy tick list. It seems like you need to put some spin on it like only include routes rated 5.9+ or only include one route per area or only include routes that can be solo-ed in roller skates. There's gotta be a new twist there.
I disagree a on the Eldo Gambit suggestion. There are much better routes in Eldo like Ruper, Vertigo, Superslab...
Also, I hardily second that Index is a phenomenal place and deserves a spot on everyone's list. Davis-Holland to Lovin' Arms anyone?
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Oct 31, 2008 - 01:31am PT
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Maine
Precipice Cliffs: Old Town to Return To Forever (5.9)
Three pitches. Five stars in my book. I'd put this up against any three pitch 5.9 granite climb in the country.
GO
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Oct 31, 2008 - 02:41am PT
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radical surely you jest...
100 Classic Choss Piles of the North American Rockies?
"Warning, the climbs as described in this books have most certainly changed due to the natural process which wear these mountains down at a very high rate. Additional route alteration is also inevitable due to the infrequent passage of a climbing party. The author is not responsible for the very likely fact that the geological features depicted in the topos may no longer exist. Please use this book as a suggestion for adventure and not as a literal guide to climbs, which once may have existed, but may no longer.
Finally, be aware that you are not at the top of the food chain in these regions, and that the mega-fauna are omnivores."
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Brutus of Wyde
climber
Old Climbers' Home, Oakland CA
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Oct 31, 2008 - 06:29am PT
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Chris --
Check out something called the West Ridge of Shot Tower in the Arrigetch. Let us know if you're interested joining us in the area to topo the route (and canoe back out to civilization!)
But you have to BYOP (Bring your own partner) because you would not enjoy our old-fat-and-slow pace!
Brutus
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Oct 31, 2008 - 10:49am PT
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Areas I would to see covered include the North Cascades, Index, The Enchantments, Sawtooth Range in Idaho (Elephant's Perch etc), the Bugaboos and Wind River Range.
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Oct 31, 2008 - 12:13pm PT
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Radical wrote: "Edit- "Goclimb", got pics?? come on..
Give us some pics, maybe I'll even fly there in the spring..
Sounds awesome!!!"
Ask and ye shall receive. Here's a pic of a friend of mine seconding Old Town. Here you can see the first 30 feet of the 5.7 first pitch:
And her husband seconding:
Sorry, no pics of Return to Forever. I think most folks are just too gripped to get out the camera!
But as a consolation prize, I'll give you another recommendation: Chitlins Corner (5.10a). Another fantastic route. P1 is also 5.7. P2 steps it up a notch to 5.10a. This one is only two pitches.
GO
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Oct 31, 2008 - 12:47pm PT
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I just returned to Acadia after a 15-year absence...Old Town was my first lead. It and Return to Forever are as good as it gets. About 250' of climbing in that combo? Chitlin Corner was 5.9+ BITD, ha. Most people will tell you that .10a is easier than 5.9+.
Some of those rap-in lines at Great Head are spectacular. They were either brand-new of a closely held secret back when I was there, but anyhow that was the highlight od the trip. None are more than a pitch or two, but in the absence of other sea-cliff climbing in this country they stand out.
Kinda curious about cap trinite'...
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Roxy
Trad climber
CA Central Coast
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Oct 31, 2008 - 12:54pm PT
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I am sure somebody has said it before but doing a Supertopo guide for the Needles in CA would be nice. The 'current' guide book is worth crazy quid as I'm sure everybody knows. A real collector's edition.
I like the idea of doing '100 classic back-up climbs' in the event one treks out to do a route and finds it crowded. That's how I came to climb After Six (or is it Seven?) on Ranger Rock. Nutcracker was packed.
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deschamps
Trad climber
Out and about
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Oct 31, 2008 - 06:49pm PT
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Feedback on Arizona:
Peacemaker in Cochise Stronghold? It's good but not "top 100 good." Though, you are right that Cochise must be represented. Warpaint is a MUCH higher quality slab route than Peacemaker. If you want something on Sheepshead, Absinthe of Mallet is better than Peacemaker.
My cochise top 3 list would be
Warpaint (no question about it), Abracadaver, and Wasteland
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Blakey
Trad climber
Newcastle UK
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Oct 31, 2008 - 07:38pm PT
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Feedback on AZ.
I agree that Warpaint is much more worthy than Peacemaker, Abra is a must do on a superb formation. The Wasteland is OK, but not that special IMHO. Days of Future Past perhaps?
Regards,
Steve
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Oct 31, 2008 - 08:20pm PT
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So much climbing, so little time.
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TBone
Boulder climber
santa barbara, ca
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Oct 31, 2008 - 09:27pm PT
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Chris,
I may be echoing what others have said, but I agree that you should narrow the focus a bit. We need to define "classic". This sounds too PC to be real. You do have several bunk climbs (Shasta is beautiful, but it is a volcano). For starters I suggest you eliminate short routes, mountaineering routes, and fifty crowded classics from the list. Which rules out pretty much everything east of Pueblo (except climb Traditions on Whitesides Mountain, NC), and lots of gumball machines in the West.
You do not have New River Gorge or Joshua Tree on your list at all. If you are going to include short climbs, then that cannot be.
Also some more for Colorado like Birds of Fire-Chiefs Head, or Yellow Wall on the Diamond, astrodog in the Black, the Kor on Saber would be nice.
On Tahquitz do not forget Whodunnit is ultra classic.
Standing rock? hmmm. What about Washer Woman Tower search for suds, Sisyphus on Zeus, Jah Man on Sister, and Honeymoon Chimney on Priest?
Glad to see Lev 29 and Wild Turkeys, love those.
I am a bit disappointed that the Steck did not make your shortlist in the Valley. This is in my opinion possibly one of the finest climbs in the country. And there will never be long lines on the Steck. Sentinel gets a pass... ouch.
Also I love East Butt of Middle and Stoners Hwy and Lucky Streaks. How can Serenity to Sons not be on the list?
Ok, that's just off the top of my head, but good luck!
TBone
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guycan
Trad climber
flagstaff
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Oct 31, 2008 - 09:56pm PT
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I'm sure everyone could add or subtract to anyone's top 100. one route not on your list, Chris; is Shune's Buttress in Zion NP.
I recently had the pleasure of doing this route: here is a teaser:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbkUhTvNqnk
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dogtown
climber
Where I once was,I think?
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No book on Classic climbs would be complete with out The Vampire, Insomnia and Valhalla in it, if you are going to include Idyllwild area in that book.
And Gordon is right crowds have never been a problem on these routes ever.
BD
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therapist
Trad climber
Woodbridge, CA
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Although not a book, Gary Clark has, over many years, put together an excellent collection of 100 classic climbs in North America, complete with excellent photos, trip reports, maps and sometime topos. You can view this at: http://lamountaineers.org/NAC/browserf/other/misc/index.htm
This list has been an inspiration to me and to others. Check it out.
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tenesmus
Trad climber
slc
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great thread. Ron had a good point about the Utah section only containing routes from 3 areas.
How about The Dorsal Fin in LCC? Or the S-Crack to S-Direct on the Thumb in LCC?
Cracks and slabs...
One more thing, What about a side list for the top 100 crags with a top 10 at each? That way you could include crags with single pitch lines in much more accessable places...
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dougs510
Social climber
down south
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didn't read the whole thread, but didn't see the SS on Sentinel on the first list... for me the puke factor is HIGH on that route, mainly because of the narrows and I'm a big boy.... Kor bolt ladder..... man that's my nemesis... should be on the list, if it's not already.
D.
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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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Chris,
You are on the road to Hell with this one.......There are just too many good routes. You are brave to even consider it.
It seems to me that it might be more manageable to have something simular but different. Have the title be 100 Classic Crags in North America and then list the top ten routes in each area.
It might be harder for YOU to climb all the routes but you could delegate that role to locals and more easily get a concensis of what the really "must-do" routes are in any given area, and then all you have to do is decide which crags really deserve your attention. Any real "gem of a route" that gets left off the list becomes the fault of the locals and you can always say, "well, the locals didn't think that route was worth including on the list"....
I think 100 Classic Climbs is just too short of a list anymore with all the great climbs out there.
Anyway, just my thoughts on your idea.
JACK
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timeless61
Mountain climber
Seattle
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I know I’m bias but since none of my suggestions got added to the list I thought these pics my help. (Sorry Chris, you opened a can of worms!)
Gunsight Peak
Eldorado Icecap
Pickets
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Nov 21, 2008 - 01:30am PT
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Chris, to make a great list you would have to go on the road and put in your research. The areas that you are not familiar with are evident in your listing. Basically you need editorial consistency that come only from your perspective. With gas prices dropping, maybe now is the time to hit the road and give us updates as you do your research.
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KuntryKlimber
Mountain climber
Rock Hill, SC
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Dec 11, 2008 - 02:54pm PT
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radical that ain't politically correct. it's ha ling peak aint it?
also, i can attest to the brutality of the CR. still regrowing toenails lost on approaches from 5 mo ago and saw some freezing temps up high in late july.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Dec 11, 2008 - 03:16pm PT
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Oregon-
Barad Dur, Wolf Rock, Oregon Cascades
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Dec 11, 2008 - 03:26pm PT
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"not too short (longer than 300-feet)"
sweet, that leaves out Josh and most cragging areas I go to.
suckahs! ;)
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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Dec 11, 2008 - 03:28pm PT
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i would look at the "classic obscure routes" otherwise know as the
"museum climbs" on this forum. If that's the case i have a few to add to the list!!!!
as stated here already there are a couple of books- been there-done that.
otherwise i would go base jumping instead...
ks
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Darryl Cramer
Social climber
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Dec 11, 2008 - 04:07pm PT
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WASHINGTON
North Cascades Liberty Bell Mountain Liberty Crack – Not really a great route.
North Cascades Liberty Bell Mountain Thin Red Line - Only first few pitches are really high quality.
Washington Pass has a lot of routes but in general the quality isn’t so high. I bet some new routes would be much better than these .
Northwest Volcanoes Mt. Rainier Liberty Ridge - No idea I’m a rock climber.
Leavenworth Snow Creek Wall Outer Space - Except for the hand crack pitches this route is far below average.
Stuart Range Colchuck Balanced Rock West Face – Yes!
Stuart Range Dragontail Peak Backbone Ridge with Fin Direct - Top is bleh.
Stuart Range Prusik Peak South Face – Yes!
Stuart Range Mt. Stuart Complete North Ridge -
Index Town Wall Green Dragon – I wouldn’t put this in as a classic.
The suggestion for Gunsight is probably a great one. For years I wanted to hike in and spend a week there but with so many new routes to do at Index I never made it. It's a mini Patagonia popping out of a glacier. I would think that any of the classic Washington routes should have that WA feel. (ie glaciers) Most of the rock routes in WA of the length you are looking for simply aren't as good as the routes in CA, but WA has something only Alaska has and that's glaciers. Some of the newer mixed routes take advantage of Washington's unique climate but they have a fairly short season.
Bear full north ridge should be included.
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rockgeir
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
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Dec 13, 2008 - 12:21pm PT
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For AZ:
i'd suggest adding "days of future passed."
also, i'd suggest removal of "peacemaker" and in its place putting "absinthe of mallet". the two routes are both on the same dome, but the latter is a far better route.
finally, i'd suggest replacing "the out of towners" with "warpaint".
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scooter
climber
fist clamp
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Dec 13, 2008 - 04:21pm PT
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Maybe you should consider putting something from Arkansas and Kentucky in there. Classic Southern Sandstone.
In Ark. Windy Armbuster 5.10, Cat on a Hot Tin Roof 5.9+, The Natural 5.9+, Dead Dog 5.11, Edge of Flight 5.10+. Those are some of the best routes I have climbed in the USA.
They are only single pitches, but SOOOO good.
Patrick
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Brendan
Trad climber
Yosemite, CA
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Apr 25, 2009 - 01:01am PT
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WEST VIRGINIA:
SENECA ROCKS:
I've climbed a ton of stuff down there/ guided right in the region. Four climbs come to mind.
-Ecstacy: 5.7, 3 pitches. Super fun. (south peak, south face)
-Soler; 5.7, 4 pitches ( a cool history too, FA in 1954 or something, totally hardman style in the tradition of old school ratings. Cant believe that was led on pitons, free.) ( south peak East face)
-Crack of Dawn: 2 Pitches 5.10a ( South peak west face)
-West Pole: 5.7, 3 pitches, Fun roofs and hand cracks.
NEW RIVER GORGE: (if you had thought about putting it in)
-Supercrack 5.9, 1 pitch, beauty mountain. Splitttttttttter hands.
-Legacy 11.a, 1 pitch. Endless wall. So beautiful.
-Fantasy 5.8, or 5.10b, 2 pitches. endless wall. Splitter hand crack to path of least resistance, or glory over hung corner to a top out mantel you'll never forget. go for the 10b way.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Apr 25, 2009 - 01:20am PT
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Oregon Cascades
Wolf Rock
Barad Dur
Nuff said.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Apr 25, 2009 - 02:29am PT
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I would delete Gambit in Eldorado in Boulder, CO. Not that classic. If you need to add another classic route in Eldorado you really should have Ruper in there. Ruper is *the* classic route in Eldorado at the moderate grade.
Also, I don't understand why Ellingwood Ridge on La Plata Peak is still on the list. As I said before, if you are rock climbing then you are off route. Don't bring a rope, rock shoes or any rock pro as you will not need them. Check out:
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/colorado/alpine_rock/la_plata/105757222
Bruce
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Apr 25, 2009 - 07:41am PT
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What's a classic?
For example, Keeler Needle, Harding Route? A classic yes, historically, but as I understand it, and I could be wrong, never having been on the route, it is choss.
How about the 100 Tick List Climbs as voted for by the Taco Standers? Or something like that.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Apr 25, 2009 - 10:09am PT
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Sometimes these lists can have unintended consequences. There were a number of deaths and rescues on the East ridge of Mt Temple in the Cdn Rockies within a year of Roper and Steck's book. People thought "Here is a classic and it is only 5.6 we can do that on the small cliff back home." Turns out a number of people lacked the required mountain skills.
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andy@climbingmoab
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 25, 2009 - 11:08am PT
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I don't think routes that have been included in books like this a million times like Kor-Ingalls on Castleton should be there, especially since that route isn't very good anyway. Better for lesser known but equally good or better routes like Honeymoon Chimney on the Priest to be represented. Other Utah routes that should be there are Arm and Hammer in Bells Canyon, Washer Woman, Phantom Sprint on Echo Tower, Zenyatta Entrada, and probably one of the long free routes on the Tombstones(Playing Hooky?).
In the Gunks, Shockley's is really good if you start it with Strictly from Nowhere, but otherwise lots of dull climbing to one cool roof.
Something in the Needles in South Dakota would be nice to see. Spire 3 and 4 are good and fairly long. The Needle's Eye is only one pitch but very iconic. The Conn Diagonal on Outer Outlet is very classic and 3 pitches.
Something on Sundance Buttress at Lumpy Ridge should be there - Mainliner, Kor's Flake, and Turnkorner all come to mind.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Apr 25, 2009 - 04:21pm PT
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Timeless61, those are some sweet pix. The Cascades rock. I've only done Shuksan (1973) but my dad is from Olympia and I have a lot of relations up in that neck of the woods.
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Apr 25, 2009 - 05:06pm PT
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I agree with Andy, having The Nose, the salathe, west buttress, Cassin ridge, etc etc is kind of a given. Probably better even still to say the 100 best ROCK climbs for the ticklist.
Areas like The Needles and Tahquitz/Suicide are underestimated when people put together big lists! I would put the following for Idyllwild:
Vampire
Open Book
Mechanics Route
Chingadera
Valhalla (!!!)
Insomnia
Flower of High Rank
Green Arch
Lots more probably coudl be considered classics... but these are in the annals of californian climbing as CLASSICS!
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RDB
Social climber
way out there
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Apr 25, 2009 - 08:08pm PT
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WASHINGTON
Washington Pass has a lot of routes but in general the quality isn’t so high.....I bet some new routes would be much better than (Liberty Bell).....I agree.
Northwest Volcanoes Mt. Rainier....Ptarmigan Ridge is a much better an more interesting climb than Libery.
Mt Snoqulaimie, Pineapple Express (winter mixed)
Leavenworth Snow Creek Wall.......Hyperspace with the thin crack start.
Stuart Range....Colchuck Balanced Rock West Face
Stuart Range Prusik Peak.... South Face
Stuart Range Mt. Stuart...Girth Pillar
Index Town Wall...Davis Holland/Loving Arms
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GRJ
climber
Juneau AK
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Apr 25, 2009 - 08:53pm PT
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Alaska....
There are great climbs and then there are classics. Royal Tower is great, but as far as classics go Keystone Greensteps in Valdez has to be one of the mega classics in the country.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Apr 25, 2009 - 11:11pm PT
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Seems like each state with real climbing could have its own 50-100 classics book.
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Apr 25, 2009 - 11:25pm PT
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Or at least each state that isn't Alabama, Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Guam.
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Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
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"...Alabama, Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware...Georgia, Hawaii...Kentucky...Maine...Michigan...New Hampshire...North Carolina, North Dakota...Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Guam."
I second this, not because I agree, but because anything that leads people away from these states benefits me. Seriously, the climbing in West Virginia is just awful. Nobody go there.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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37 from Cali is toooo many.
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andy@climbingmoab
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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From GDavis's list, certainly Montana, New Hampshire, North Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, and West Virginia could have fantastic top 50-100 lists, and about half of the others could have credible ones.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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AZ Classics
The Mace and Earth Angel in Sedona.
Candyland, Thin Slice, Reunion and Jump Back Jack Crack at Granite Mountain.
What's My Line, Abracadaver, Days of Future Passed and Forest Lawn at the Cochise Stronghold.
Hotline at Tom's Thumb in Phoenix.
Lizard Marmalade Direct, Leviathan Dome, Histoplasmosis, Chiboni-Quick Death- Voodoo Child on Rappel Rock and Rapture of the Steep at the Reef of Rock.
For starters....
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qigongclimber
climber
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May 20, 2009 - 08:16pm PT
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Chris:
It's "Smith Rock", not "Smith Rocks". Please correct your list and your topo pages.
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GDavis
Trad climber
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May 20, 2009 - 08:30pm PT
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C-MAC GOT TOLD
UPDATE YOUR LISTS HOMES
PEAx OUT
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Greg Barnes
climber
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May 20, 2009 - 08:56pm PT
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Yeah yeah yeah - it's also "Sierra" not "Sierras", and "Red Rock" not "Red Rocks"...
I've been coming to the High Sierra since I was 10 weeks old - and I call it the Sierras all the time. The original Red Rocks guidebook was called "The Red Rocks of Southern Nevada" even though technically it's Red Rock National Conservation Area. If people want to call it Smith Rocks, so what? It is a bunch of rock formations, not one solitary rock.
If it was "officially" called Smith Rocks and there was only one rock, then there'd be more reason to complain.
Language evolves...get over it!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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May 20, 2009 - 09:13pm PT
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My 2 sheckles' worth...
Dump:
Denali West Butt
Colchuck Rock
Everything at Smith Rocks (I don't think rap-bolted routes are 'classic') - substitute - Mt Hood's Yocum Ridge- in winter of course
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JAK
climber
The Souf
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May 20, 2009 - 09:44pm PT
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"I second this, not because I agree, but because anything that leads people away from these states benefits me. Seriously, the climbing in West Virginia is just awful. Nobody go there. "
If you think West Virginia is bad, you'd be appalled by North Carolina.
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seamus mcshane
climber
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May 20, 2009 - 10:26pm PT
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Can anyone say Orange Blossom Wall @ T-Wall?
Pound for pound any one of these classic, albeit short routes demand recognition.
My 2 cents.
Most of these routes define classic.
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Apr 19, 2010 - 07:51pm PT
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For my money, the Beast Flake Variation is the best way to do recompense. It is wild, exposed, fun.
I would have included the Prow from Cathedral, too.
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Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
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Apr 19, 2010 - 08:44pm PT
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New Hampshire and Nevada lists need some rethinking I would say, as does Toulumne.
Generally, as Randy pointed out, to much reliance on obvious, safe choices. Might be better to narrow the grade range as per Ken Wilsons Hard Rock, Classic Rock and Extreme Rock series.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Apr 19, 2010 - 09:45pm PT
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List from Arizona lacking too... there are lots of places other than Cochise with great climbing.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Apr 19, 2010 - 10:28pm PT
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I wouldn't. Please don't.
Anyway, smacks of "greatest hits", most popular, pop music, etc. etc.
Arne
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| Messages 1 - 141 of total 141 in this topic |
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Your original idea has been done before - not original
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