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WBraun
climber
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Oct 11, 2008 - 01:04am PT
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Yes Kali in her fearsome form is not very pleasant and the materialists are generally attracted to her.
But her other form ......
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Oct 11, 2008 - 02:56am PT
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"Sheeee, i'd never want to be a Kali Ma or even be around her. Is this the person you blame your freak outs and temper rocks on ? She sounds like she's in control of the Iraq war....and alot of other bad sheee on this planet. Blood, death, dismemberment, corpses of children, dreadful fangs....and people think jesus is bad...."
Lynne, those are simply some peoples interpretations of kali. Another way to think of Kali is that she is an aspect of the allness of God. She represents destruction. You might then ask, Why would God have destruction as one of its aspects?. One reason is that God has given His/Her children ( all of us ) free will and dominion over earth. We are here to grow in knowing God and becoming one with God, yet because we are children and we have free will, we can make mistakes. The bible would call these mistakes "sin".
So when you make a mistake, you create energy that is misguided. You can also create form that is misguided. To undo this form you must destroy it. To raise up energy that is misguided, you must transform it. In some traditions, Kali is the consort of Shiva. Shiva can represent destruction but he can also represent transformation.
These are the purposes of the goddess Kali and her consort, the God Shiva, to destroy that which is sin and to transform it into the Christ. In the teaching that I follow, the female energy of God is the contracting energy, it always tries to take things back to God. So Kali is simply trying to put a form back into alignment with God's will. Male energy is the expansive energy. So Shiva expands misguided energy by transformation. This can appear as destructive because the old form it help no longer exists. At this point you do need to be aware that we all have male and female energy within us but this could take a long time to explain so I will stop here.
Shive and Kali undo the mistakes that we make. Sometimes through grace, through forgiveness when we seek it, and sometimes through Karmic return, which if enough is coming back to you can appear very destructive.
Now think of all the different ways people imagine the teachings of Jesus to be horrid, such as eating the body of Christ. To some this sounds like cannibalism. Yet we know that this is just symbolism and to understand it you must look beyond the words and dig for the meaning. So my hope is that you do not discount the teachings of Kali and Shiva simply because they appear harsh.
There is much much more to say about this, but I hope that this gives you a small picture.
John
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 11, 2008 - 03:26am PT
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It is said that the divine can appear and respond in the form that the devotee can relate to. The power that can create a universe so vast that light takes billions of years to traverse at 182,000 miles per second can be hard to relate to.
Fortunately, a spark of that power dwells within us, as us, since we in the image of that One.
and in "Hindu" philosophy, there may appear to be many gods, but in reality are acknowledged to be aspects of that One absolute Being. (in a similar way that "Christian" Philosophy seems to have three gods but really only has one, and saints in Catholicism, plus mary have status that would be like Hindu Gods)
Many of the iconographic elements in Hindu dieties are symbolic of the cosmic powers that they represent. (like Saint Peter might be pictured with a key)
Some believe these Gods exist for real in the forms depicted in statues and paintings. Others believe those aspects of God assume those forms in order to relate to our limited human capacity that needs to love and understand things more similar to ourselves. Some have an "inbetween" philosophy (what are gods made of anyway. If there is an old man in the sky, what's his leg made of?)
It's no surprise that some aspects of God being worshiped have fearsome aspects. On a more primitive level. folks have wanted to worship the gods that have power regarding what people fear most, death and transformation. Wasn't it fire, brimstone and the fear of eternal damnation that led some folks to repent?
Peace
Karl
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nature
climber
Santa Fe, NM
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2008 - 09:53am PT
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Lynne... as pointed out she is the consort of Shiva. Shiva is one of trinity in hindu mythology.
Brahma - the creator
Vishnu - the maintainer
Shiva - the destroyer
Shiva is depicted in the form for Nataraj dancing on the drawf Apasmara who signifies ignorance. Thus Shiva destroys ignorance. The dance he dances is the Ananda Tandava - the dance which creates the universe. (Lynne: you may have noticed I wear a Nataraj around my neck [though I'd consider Hanuman - shiva's 11th incarnation - my ishta devata])
Other forms of Kali:
Durga:
Bradrakali (gentle kali)
Dakshayani or Sati (Rama's Consort in the Ramayana)
Parvati (mother of Ganesha)
So you see she's not just one god. She's all god(esses).
My guess is that you knowledge of hindu (and eastern) philosophy is limited and thus you judge the one goddess on one picture and one story. Some might even look at kali and think she's the devil or evil - which she is knott.
Werner.... which form is that? Radha? (Is that Krishna?)
Speaking of Hanuman... find Kali in this painting:
When Shiva wanted to incarnate as a monkey (Hanuman) to go help Rama in the epic war told in the Ramayana, Shakti (Kali, etc...) didn't want to be left behind. So she became his tail.
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MisterE
Trad climber
My Inner Nut
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Oct 11, 2008 - 11:10am PT
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Taoism is a lot simpler!
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Oct 11, 2008 - 01:53pm PT
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PBRism is a lot simpler too....
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Oct 11, 2008 - 02:48pm PT
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I'm with Mr E, though this stuff is fascinating enough for a lifetime, or so...
Jay-Neo(quasi?)Taoistmoralatheist-bro
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Oct 11, 2008 - 10:42pm PT
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Thanks ! To all you guys for the information ! You know it means alot to Lynnie that people actually care to respond to questions and then give relevant information.
I was looking for life meaning years ago and read about quite a few eastern philosophies and many other religions along with agnostic and atheistic views.....
Peace, which belongs in all our hearts ...Lynnie
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