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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 7, 2008 - 06:59pm PT
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Anyone up there when this happened? How bad was it?
BC-CA--Yosemite Rock Slide,0056 Yosemite park rangers respond to rock slide Eds: APNewsNow.
YOSEMITE NATIONAL PARK, Calif. (AP) - Rangers are responding to the scene of a rock slide in Yosemite National Park near Curry Village at the east end of the valley floor.
A park spokesperson says there are no evacuations under way and no reports of injuries.
Curry Village is home to the winter ice rink and amphitheater.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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None of the webcams are working. Two are black screen.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I bet Ouch could show us what happened.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
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"None of the webcams are working. Two are black screen. "
They've been like that for a while now.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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bump for pic request
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WBraun
climber
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I just came back from our response to this situation.
The disaster is over, some trees and shrubs got nailed, one tent cabin damaged, no injuries.
Life goes on ...........
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there wbraun.. say, thanks... nice to know...
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Last week when I headed back to SF, I took the road out of Yosemite that goes to Merced. When I saw that section of land where the rockslide obliterated the road - I was really taken aback! SO much more powerful than I ever would have guessed. What a pile of rubble.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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what time did it occur?
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WBraun
climber
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When the rock fell off the wall ......
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Blitzo
Social climber
Earth
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Nice, Werner!
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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no, seriously... i'm looking at data - any idea what time it occurred?
or, i'll just wait 'till greg gets down...
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WBraun
climber
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cleo
Seriously, the radio went off into emergency talking mode. Red flag, .... lot's of fast talking traffic and emergency tones.
We roll with lights and sirens for ambiance.
Arrive on scene with lots of dust and confusion from the denizens that were at the scene.
Incident command immediately starts engaging appropriate personnel on what to do.
Who's looking at a clock? Dispatch most likely.
Not me ........
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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s'ok Werner
I'm glad nobody was hurt.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Hey, was that our new climbing ranger Erik talkin it with the press, full props, already on the scene!
The Rodgers Slide and Glacier, might be getting pushed by Buena Vista Ridge down to Horse Ridge.
Everything on the North end of the park should be cool.
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Brock
Trad climber
RENO, NV
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Do you think it was the recent rain and freezing temps that led to the rockfall? Seems that the majority of large rockslides I have seen in the Valley have been in early Spring or Fall..A time when temps are fluctuating along with rain/snow/ice.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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What ever became of the new shitters and septic system up on Glacier Point, that many thought was the cause of all these recent rockfalls?
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Blakeb
Big Wall climber
Ashland, Oregon
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6:55am, Oct. 8th another curry rock slide, it rumbled for quite a while this time, havent seen the after math yet, talked to some friends in curry, said they were safe and large rock dust cloud in air, lots of sirens followed. This one sounded larger than last. Heard some tourists were moved yesterday from curry to housekeeping. Hope everyone is ok over there.
PS: Heard there was some sort of interaction between a deer and tourist yesterday, not sure if tourist was petting or feeding deer, but the deer was angered and rangers called
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Blakeb
Big Wall climber
Ashland, Oregon
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I wouldnt use that time as a precise time for some data, it could have been 6:58, i was half awake, but it did rumble for a solid minute or longer. Bump
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
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"A friend of mine ran into Kauk at the Cookie one time. He asked Ron when it got dark. Ron said: "When the sun goes down""
He was just sayin' what he's been told... By the wind... and the sky... and the rock... It's because of the connection.
:)
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AmyT
climber
Santa Barbara
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Any information on this morning's slide would be greatly appreciated. My 10 year old daughter along with 67 of her classmates were staying in Curry Village when this happened. They are cutting their trip short by a day and heading back to Santa Barbara today! Reports are that one of the children suffered a laceration and was taken to a medical facility - anybody know anything about that? I do know it wasn't my child!
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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"PS: Heard there was some sort of interaction between a deer and tourist yesterday, not sure if tourist was petting or feeding deer, but the deer was angered and rangers called"
...maybe this deer?
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gonz
Trad climber
yosemite
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i saw both rock falls! the one this morning was pretty big. they have all of curry closed down right now.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Yes - but I don't have any nearby stations at the moment. I'm curious if farther EQ stations are picking anything up.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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I walked through the carnage this morning to look for damaged electric. Three tent cabins and one Wab completely destroyed. Another Wab was knocked off it's footing.There were people staying in these cabins. I believe there were 4 minor injuries. Amazing that it wasn't worse. The rock scar on the 9:00 Wall from both the slides is almost as big as the Zodiac Circle.
Ken
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
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If it hits the Mountain Shop, I'm heading over and looting in the aftermath. 50% off, at the back of my truck tomorrow... :)
Wow! That's a serious scar, Ken! Yikes! Glad there were no serious injuries.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Wow!
maybe a picture of the scar would be cool.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Pic of the rockfall 9 years back. Don't know if like todays?
Maybe Curry should build a retaining wall about 50 feet thick and 100feet high. It'll be way cheaper than the lawsuits when the big
slide hits one crowded summer and flows all the way to the river. Medical costs being so high and lawyers so greedy...
June 13, 1999 rock fall above Camp Curry taken by climber Lloyd DeForrest
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Lightgirl
Social climber
Mendocino, Ca
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I was working in Lower Pines yesterday morning when I thought I heard fire-crackers. I didn't see anyone with them, but it went on randomly for maybe twenty minutes or so. The two rangers I was working with didn't recognize the sound either. One or two sounded more like gun shots.
About an hour later I heard the first small rock fall. Ten or so minutes later it sounded like a very small rock fall. It wasn't until a couple hours later that the big one started above the ledge trail. HUGE SCAR! It was pretty scary and then the silica dust cloud consumed the area and it looked as high as Glacier Point. The breeze cleared the dust after a bit. I heard no injuries & a squashed cabin.
This morning I thought I heard a small rock fall near Yellow Pines. Then one of our volunteers (that stays in Curry) arrived early & somewhat shaken. They were allowed to go back to their cabin last night and were terrified when they heard the rock fall early AM. Aparantly when the rock hit their cabin they bolted out of there.
Hope every one is well. My friend got some pictures.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Here's a 2004 photo showing the locations of the 1999 and 2008 rockfalls.
If someone posts a photo of the new scar on the Nine O'Clock Wall, we can compare old vs. new.
Climbing on Point Beyond and routes to its left should be fine, since they are far left of the 2008 rockfall site, and there are talus cones in between that protect the base as well.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Here are some photos from this morning right after the rockfall. You can still see granite dust in the air.
This is the new scar.
Here are some damage shots with one of them of me standing in front of the boulder and trees that took out 4 cabins.
I was ready to run at the first sound of rockfall.
Ken
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
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It's going to be a sad day for many when Curry gets leveled. Unfortunately, it's a matter of when, not if.
There was also another sizable rockfall between 1999 and 2008, Clint. I'm thinking 2003? It took out some cabins the other end of Curry(the cabins near Huff). Came down where the "Sofa" ledge was.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Holy sh!t, that's some serious stuff.
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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my thoughts exactly bluering...scary...
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Awesome photos, Ken! Thanks for posting.
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Lightgirl
Social climber
Mendocino, Ca
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I just heard someone say that women were running out of the Curry showers naked yesterday when rocks hit the upper shower room. We opted to avoid those showers. I had watched some climbers going up Washington's Collumn yesterday & thought they must have had an intense experience. I just ran into one of them a few minutes ago (pure coincidence) but he said that they didn't have cameras and "yes, it was quite a spectacular view."
Yosemite's geologist was climbing El Cap at the time.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Are there Insurance Policies paying Double Indemnity for "death
by stupidity" due to renting a tent cabin in an active avalanche area?
Its always about the money but is Curry evacuated or are people still in nearby tent cabins?
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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I'll bet seeing women running naked from the showers was quite a spectacular view...
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hoipolloi
climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
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guess GPA will continue being an eerie place to be and climb..
are those new boulder problems? The 'new' curry boulders. whos bagging the FA's?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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"are those new boulder problems? The 'new' curry boulders. whos bagging the FA's? "
that's a damn good point.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Glad I wasn't on the Ledge Trail! Fall is actually my favorite time to hike it -- or maybe I should say was my favorite time. Pretty sobering pictures.
Looks like Ice Age, et al., may be subject to some variation now. At least these rockfalls were pretty far to the west of normal Apron climbing.
Thanks for the posts.
John
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squishy
Mountain climber
sacramento
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I was thinking of doing the Ledge trail this past weekend, I've never been up there, looks fun. Glad I stayed away, I thought it would be a bad time considering the major weather change that rolled through and went climbing instead...
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spyork
Social climber
A prison of my own creation
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I climbed up to Point Beyond a couple weeks ago, so was a bit disturbed when I saw this thread. But after looking at the pictures, I wasnt even close to the rockfall area. So I will go back again when I get the chance.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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sounds kinda scary to me.
Associated Press
Wednesday, October 8, 2008
2nd rock slide reported in Yosemite National Park
YOSEEMITE NATIONAL PARK, Calif. (AP) - A second rock slide in two days struck cabins and knocked down trees Wednesday in Yosemite Valley, according to witnesses. Officials have not confirmed any injuries. The slide happened shortly after 7 a.m., park spokesman Erik Skindrud told KCRA-TV in Sacramento. He said officials have gone to the area to evaluate any potential damage. Witnesses told The Associated Press the slide toppled trees and hit some tent and wooden cabins near Curry Village amphitheater. The witnesses also said some people appeared to be injured. Tom Trujillo, of New Milford, Conn., who was attending photography classes at Yosemite Institute, saw the rock slide and ran toward it. "Trees were crushed all over the place," said Trujillo over the sound of a hovering helicopter. "A couple of kids, 5th or 6th graders, were stumbling out of the area. I tried to picked them up, tried to get them out as fast as I could." Trujillo said he helped one boy, with blood on his forehead and down his back, get out and find his mother. "It was a really big mess," Trujillo said. "Tents were crushed, trees were knocked down, hard cabins were moved out of their positions, with boulders blocking their doorway." Another photography student, Rena McClain, a nurse from Dover, Del., told The AP in a telephone interview she had her back to granite face when she heard what sounded like a booming thunder clap. She whipped around and saw a giant cloud of rock and dust coming down. "People were starting to yell 'run, run' and kids started to scream," said McClain. As the dust settled, shaken teachers and chaperones gathered groups of high school students and tried to get head counts. "The kids were crying," said McClain. "I tried to comfort them. I'm a nurse, my immediate response was 'what can I try to do to help.' "There was another rock slide in the same area near Curry Village, on theeast side of the park, on Tuesday afternoon. No one was injured in that slide. In 1996, a rock slide in the same area sent as much as 162,000 tons of rock
plummeting more than 2,000 feet, killing one visitor and felling 500 trees. Curry Village includes visitor lodging, stores and restaurants.
Kathy_Kupper@nps.gov
infozone
1.94.5
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Mr_T
Trad climber
Somewhere, CA
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It's pretty darn lucky that with 4 cabins flattened, nobody was killed.
Given the location of the 2008 fall relative to the outhouse up top, does this cast a bit of doubt on the leech field theory? In other words, is upper glacier point just dangerous?
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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I haven't climbed there in many years. I have seen way too many active areas over there.
Ken
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jeff_m
climber
Santa Barbara
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Hey Amy, did you get an update on the kids? I was up in Yosemite climbing with Rachel (one of the group leaders with the kids) last week. Didn't get through on her cell, but I'm guessing she's pretty busy. Damn frightening...
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Glen Denny made a point during his show at the FaceLift of mentioning that in his day (1960s), the thought of rockfall on or near the Apron never occurred to anyone.
No doubt that a lot of the Valley is geologically active, even on human time scales. I wonder what effect this will have on Curry Village and area? It's pretty scary stuff, in terms of what happened and what might be next. I bet Ken wasn't very comfortable being there this morning.
Someone upthread mentioned the Glacier Point rockfall from 1999, and the lawsuit resulting from the death of Pete Terbush, based in part on the theory that human waste disposal at Glacier Point had somehow lubricated the rock. The NPS has vigorously resisted the claim, and so far been successful in court. Essentially, the NPS has statutory protection for the results of most natural hazards that might happen in parks. It would be interesting to see the NPS-Delaware North agreement, and see how risk to structures and guests is apportioned and managed.
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Mr_T
Trad climber
Somewhere, CA
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A reposted photo from earlier - isn't the bathroom a considerable distance from the recent (marked 2008) slide? Both slides released from similar looking overhangs.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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I climbed Mr. Natural in late April with Jared; you can see the Nine O'Clock wall in the background.
I think you'd be fine once you are 40' off the ground on the usual approach corner left of Dr. Feel Good. But you could be at some risk when walking up the talus to the base. I haven't seen the exact path of destruction from the new rockfall yet.
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CF
climber
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I got some photos of what was going on at Curry this am at:
Curry Rock Fall
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland: what's not to love?
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Corniss Chopper, the picture you posted of the '99 rock fall is arresting and grim - I'd never seen it before. Peter Terbush is both holding his belay and losing his life somewhere in that photo, correct? Respect to him. RIP Peter.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
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moving Curry would interrupt the flow of cash, dude...
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hoipolloi
climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
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fattrad, I believe the theories say the San Andreas is more likely to cut loose on an October day! Could be this year, hell could be tomorrow. Aren't there theorys that quakes are more likely on hot days (in the fall) --i.e. 'earthquake weather.'
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AmyT
climber
Santa Barbara
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Jeff,
The kids are all fine, thank goodness, and are due back early this evening (with plenty of storied, I'm sure!). It sounds like they were residing in some of the tent cabins that got crushed, but nobody got stuck inside them. They had to leave all their gear and possessions behind - we'll see if we get anything back later. From what I can tell, the entire village is evacuated.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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hoipolloi,
> fattrad, I believe the theories say the San Andreas is more likely to cut loose on an October day! Could be this year, hell could be tomorrow. Aren't there theorys that quakes are more likely on hot days (in the fall) --i.e. 'earthquake weather.'
If there are theories of this, they aren't very good. Here's an old example that doesn't fit:
The Great 1906 San Francisco Earthquake
5:12 AM - April 18, 1906
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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How many years until lost arrow spire falls.
That would be so fing cool to watch.
Juan
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scuffy b
climber
City of the Future
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Since that retrofit, it ain't NEVER going to fall.
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Anastasia
climber
Not there
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I am very glad that no one was badly hurt.
Possessions, houses, etc. can always be replaced. You can't do that with people.
I think in times of natural and "economical" crisis we need to remind ourself on what is important.
Your health, your life is true wealth. Everything else isn't worth killing yourself over.
AF
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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"fattrad, I believe the theories say the San Andreas is more likely to cut loose on an October day! Could be this year, hell could be tomorrow. Aren't there theorys that quakes are more likely on hot days (in the fall) --i.e. 'earthquake weather.' "
Doesn't make sense to me. Once you are about 5' or more underground the temperature is practically constant year round. Down hundreds or thousands of feet where earthquakes occur there would be negligable seasonally related temp change.
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jeff_m
climber
Santa Barbara
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Amy,
Thanks for the update. I'm sure I'll talk to Rachel soon. Yeah, we were all in the tent cabins last weekend and looking to climb something on the Apron. Ended up on the other side though. You never know. I hope everyone gets their stuff back though...
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Lightgirl
Social climber
Mendocino, Ca
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I was talking to Roger @ YP last night & he was east of the rockfall, below Glacier, replacing bolts yesterday, & hadn't heard the first two small rockfalls because he was hammering. He definitely heard the big rock fall. He was out of view of everything though.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there ol' chicken skinner... say, you all have a hard job, and there may be hard park-decisions coming up, too, as to the aftermath of all this...
say, best wishes to you... take care to go by your gut-feelings, when you are working in these areas, as to what ever steps come next....
god bless to you and the family....
extra note:
*say, to anyone that had kids up here... very sorry that they had this trauma.... nearly all of us had wonderful memories of yosemite, camping, and trail-walking.... now, these young kids lost that---but, they have kept their lives, and hopefully still, there will be a love for nature (though, yes, with a hard lesson that many do not learn until they are adults)...
hope they will feel well soon, to you parent-folks, as i saw some post here...
a hard lesson for us all to learn--though, is---nature is not as "safe" as it can give the impression to be... even though the rocks and trees can seem strong and solid and even as guardians about us--they are natural objects that we, and park officials as well, have no power over..... in every outdoor event we are all just human-folks, partaking of what we can, while we can, in the huge picture of theses natural vastly beautiful landscapes....
we tend to forget that these vast wonders are still being "rearranged" each new sundown and sunset...
well, as one thata sure loves yosemite and all it contains, i sure hope the changes that may befall it, work as lucky as this one did, so folks will never have a regret for seeing its unique beauty.... A BEAUTY that changes the heart, and touches the soul and spirit so very deep, by everything in it....
there is no place like yosemite... yet, there is no place where rocks promise to behave... yet, love it (yosemite0, we still surely do and always will...
*sure hope this is not the beginning-future-birthpains of a "new period of change" setting a hard hard trail for our beloved park...
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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"I believe the theories say the San Andreas is more likely to cut loose on an October day!"
My daughter turns 19 on the 28th, what a weird birthday that would make (she lives, safely, in Reno)
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gunsmoke
Trad climber
Clackamas, Oregon
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"Seriously, wouldn't it be smart to move those cabins way back from the wall?"
What's more likely to happen is the removal of a bunch of cabins without any replacement. All part of the plan to relocate humans in order to make room for the ever-growing bear population.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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The problem is that they need to be far enough away from the river. If both areas expand there won't be any area left to spend the night.
Ken
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there corniss chopper.. say, thank you for sharing this, and the deeds of a young man that gave his life for another...
i posted at the link that you put forth here...
thank your for caring to honor another in such a way as to let his deeds live on, when he himself, cannot...
god bless.. and to his family, as i too, did hear about the aftermath of this sad situation...
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Panacea82
Sport climber
Johnson City, TN
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Are Circuit Breaker and the couch ok??
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Panacea82,
Why don't you go up there and let us know.
Ken
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WBraun
climber
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Hey Ken did they close Curry Village?
I just got back from El Cap where we lowered the Park geologist off the Mescalito from 15 pitches up so he could make the decision.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
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"What's more likely to happen is the removal of a bunch of cabins without any replacement. All part of the plan to relocate humans in order to make room for the ever-growing bear population. "
Sounds like a good deal. Yos should end being a whole lot more like Zion.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Werner,
I don't know. When I saw you this morning, I was heading back to work and did not return. It appeared there was going to be a large closure for obvious reasons. Not sure of the extent of it. Must have been a bummer for Jesse, Linc and Co.
Ken
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
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Fatty - All I need now is an old italian bolt action, and a window.... :)
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Wasn't there a Navy guy climbing up there?
I bet he planted explosives.
Granite Terroism.
OK, so how much more bad sh#t is going to happen before we start back up?
911
Iraq
Global Warming
Foreclosure
Gas
Hurricane
201K
Jobs
Granite
Were done payin dues, right?
The Bush years...weren't they the best years of your life?
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there.. bump for any of those that would want to the news notice... its about 11:00 on your side, right?
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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like I mentioned, how long of a closure if Boot Flake comes off?
we shall see...
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hikeratheart
climber
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The injuries were all very minor. An asthma attack, scraped knees when someone running fell down, and a head laceration on one of the students there, requiring a few stitches. Add staying at Curry to the list of exciting things to do in the Valley.
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Brock
Trad climber
RENO, NV
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Don't think I will be climbing it any time soon, but anybody climbed Mr Natural (one of the best 5.10c finger cracks!!!) since the '99 rockfall? Where in relationship to the climb was the most recent rockfall?
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Brendan
Trad climber
Yosemite, CA
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If you are new to the geology of the valley, rockfall is definetly a part of the geomorphology. There are maps of the areas most prone to rockfall, and it is good to be educated before you commit to a long route.
Here is a very general list of places that Greg (the geologist) and I have talked about being serious rockfall zones in descending order from most often/likley to least...
1) Glacier Point Apron / Glacier point area.
2) The brothers formation
3) Cathedrals
4) Halfdome
5) Sentinel
6) Royal Arches area
7) Yosemite point buttress
8) El Cap
Feel free to amend this list based on personal experience.
Non-precip related rock falls are most common at night. The rock heats up during the day and expands, and then at night it cools and contracts, sometimes shearing loose rocks from places they were lodged. A.k.a., a bad idea to sleep right at the bottom of halfdome.
Since the valley receives very little precipitation during the summmer months, it is of upmost importance to respect the rockfall potential when it finally does rain. Be aware of your surroundings!
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
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That list cracks me up.
Those are my favorite YV climbing areas (except Glacier, ooooooo tooooo scary for me for the last decade).
Guess we better build a plastic wall in El Cap Meadow.
Be safe.
Jay
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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I say we loosen everything up with a giant crowbar.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Brock,
> Don't think I will be climbing it any time soon, but anybody climbed Mr Natural (one of the best 5.10c finger cracks!!!) since the '99 rockfall? Where in relationship to the climb was the most recent rockfall?
I answered these questions in a couple of posts in this thread.
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RIP Canon
Sport climber
Westfield, Ma.
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Early (Thursday) morning lighting, so detail is limited, but a rough idea of what fell.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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There used to be a net covering the section of 140 that slid a couple of years ago. Mother Nature had herself a good laugh at our pitiful net.
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lilolehs
climber
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Does anyone know if Curry Village is open? Is it safe? Are there showers?
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simply theresa
climber
Yosemite
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lilolehs: Curry Village is open (although some areas are still closed off). The pool shower house is open. The Mountain Shop and Curry Store are open, as is the bike stand and Mountaineering School.
Safe? Depends on how you define safe, I guess. I am planning to spend the night there.
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Rockjunky
Trad climber
modesto ca AKA methdesto
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lilolehs
only if you want to take the chance of streaking when the firecrackers go off!
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Mr_T
Trad climber
Somewhere, CA
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So are Time Machine and Crystal Cyclone gone?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 10, 2008 - 02:11am PT
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Was climbing on North Dome today. The ledge trail is a desvasted zone from all the stuff that avalanched down it from the wall. Wouldn't plan on doing that anytime soon.
Peace
Karl
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2tallclimber
Trad climber
The OC
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Oct 10, 2008 - 02:19am PT
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It seems those wire mesh nets managed to nab a couple of climbers too.
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Gunks
Trad climber
NY
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Oct 10, 2008 - 10:28am PT
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Where is the rock slide in relation to Harry Daley and Grack? We did those two climbs last week!
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Oct 10, 2008 - 04:13pm PT
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> Where is the rock slide in relation to Harry Daley and Grack? We did those two climbs last week!
Way to the right of those. See my photo upthread.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 10, 2008 - 07:36pm PT
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Sh#t happens. Just another rainy night in PDX this week. Sucky way to wake up at 5:40am...
[url="http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/10/southwest_portland_home_swept.html" target="new"][/url]
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Oct 11, 2008 - 09:46pm PT
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More spray from Minerals:
How many bodies is it going to take for the Park Service to pull their head out of their ass? Seriously. Not that I think that piles of bodies are a bad thing, but come on… it’s nothing less than asinine to house people in such an area if you value human life. Curry Village should be relocated entirely – plain and simple. Duh.
Why does the rock keep falling? Because it’s crap – the tonalite of Glacier Point, the oldest (~93 million years old (Ma); not 6,000…) unit in the Tuolumne Intrusive Suite (TIS). It is equivalent to the tonalite of Glen Aulin and the Kuna Crest granodiorite. The smooth portion of GP Apron consists of Half Dome granodiorite (the second oldest unit in the TIS, ~89 - 92 Ma). The difference between the two rock types can be seen in the photos that have been posted in this thread; the tonalite of GP has a much more blocky appearance while the HD granodiorite appears smooth.
Take a look at the following geologic maps to see where these rock types exist. The first map is an older bedrock map of the Valley. For some reason, Calkins did not differentiate between Sentinel granodiorite and the tonalite of GP. He combined both of these units into one unit, which is colored dark pink on the map, and labeled Sentinel granodiorite. The more recent Yosemite geologic quad is more accurate; Peck was able to separate these two different units, as seen on the map.
Yosemite Valley Bedrock Map:
http://geomaps.geosci.unc.edu/parks/fulls/Yosemite%20-%20bedrock.jpg
Yosemite Geologic Quad:
http://geomaps.geosci.unc.edu/quads/fulls/Yosemite.jpg
So, now that you know where the different rock types are, or rather where the bad ones are, wouldn’t it be better to just climb rounded domes? Yeah, that Catherdral Peak granodiorite (~86 - 88 Ma) not only looks like gold, it IS gold!
Got biotite?
It is only a matter of time until mangled and crushed bodies pile up at Curry.
Bringmesomeseriousmotherf*#kingdeath!!!
Yeah, Darwin says… “Stay at Curry, enjoy the fury!”
Welcome to Planet Dumbf*#k.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Oct 11, 2008 - 10:41pm PT
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Curry Company must show leadership! Adults only should be
allowed to rent cabins at Curry. No children allowed at all.
Adults can judge the risk and make their own decisions while children are captives to their parents or guardians control.
School groups should not go into Curry where there is a danger of avalanche.
Is it time to require helmets be worn at all times by everyone in
the "Camp Curry Rockfall Zone" ?
Small Business Safety Management Series
U.S. Department of Labor
Occupational Safety and Health Administration
OSHA 3151
1997
Head Protection
When do my employees need head protection?
You must provide head protection for your employees if:
* Objects might fall from above and strike them on the head;
* They might bump their heads against fixed objects, such as exposed pipes or beams; or
* They work near exposed electrical conductors...
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 11, 2008 - 10:44pm PT
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Thanks, Bryan. Have you seen anything from NPS geotechnical engineers or geologists on the stability of the rockfall zone, and what should be done?
A helmet might not do much good in a major rockfall, except for carrying away whatever's within it.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 11, 2008 - 11:39pm PT
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In a litigious society, it really does seem that this rockfall will be the last straw and at least some buildings may close.
The question, and probably only minerals knows this well enough to answer, is the extent of various levels of risk in Curry? Are some areas safe enough to keep?
Poor DNC, first they lost tons of housing and hotel rooms in the flood. We lost campgrounds. They couldn't rebuild in the 100 year flood plane so they just finished a ton of brand new fancy employee housing in curry! Give me the water every 100 years anyday.l
I guess we'll see how this all shakes out.
Peace
Karl
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gstock
climber
Yosemite Valley
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Oct 12, 2008 - 12:46am PT
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I wish it were that simple, Minerals. It does appear that this rockfall consisted of Glacier Point tonalite, but as you know there have been plenty of recent rockfalls from the NW face of Half Dome, squarely in the Half Dome granodiorite. Plotting all of the historic rockfalls in Yosemite Valley shows that they are widely distributed, with little regard to rock type. The height of the Tioga glacier actually appears to play a more important role, with larger rockfalls occurring from the cliffs above the limit of glaciation where the rock is more weathered.
As far as the detachment area goes, we are still in the process of determining the stability of the remaining rock mass. It is a tricky business as you might imagine, particularly because this is a difficult area to access. The larger issue, as has been pointed out, regards the wisdom of having cabins on the talus slope - I can assure you that I am working hard on this issue.
If interested, a recent paper detailing our investigation and hazard assessment of a different area of Glacier Point can be found here:
http://www.nat-hazards-earth-syst-sci.net/8/421/2008/nhess-8-421-2008.html
Greg Stock
Park Geologist
(209) 379-1420
greg_stock@nps.gov
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mongrel
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Oct 12, 2008 - 01:19am PT
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Gstock, that is one beautifully executed and documented piece of science. Love it, thanks for posting that link. Somewhere, I once surfed to rockfall maps for the Valley (basically, talus fields by BIG age classes), they are wonderful and aesthetic and do emphasize the point that nearly everywhere that we climb and hike there has had a big rock avalanche sometime in the last umpty thousand years. I bet people who are following this thread would love to see those maps, can you post the link?
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gstock
climber
Yosemite Valley
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Oct 12, 2008 - 01:38am PT
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Check out Plate 1 in this document:
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1999/ofr-99-0578/
There have been several notable rockfalls since this map was produced, but even so it reveals the wide distribution of slope movement events (rockfalls, rockslides, debris flows) in Yosemite Valley.
Greg
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Anastasia
climber
Not there
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Oct 12, 2008 - 01:50am PT
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gstock!
I am going to use you to replace my previous hero! The reason is that when you give scientific data to a few outspoken tenacious citizens, it becomes a catalyst for change.
Thanks for the spark,
AF
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Oct 12, 2008 - 03:24am PT
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There you have it, Anders.
Yes, Greg. If it were only that simple. I hope that you didn’t think that my Park Service comments were directed at you in any way; I wouldn’t think so, considering the conversations that we’ve had in the past. Among the many different factors contributing to these rockfalls, rock type must be considered. I honestly doubt that the right side of El Cap would be concave if it weren’t for the presence of the North America Diorite. Joint systems are not blind; they certainly are controlled by rock type, as well as other factors. The NW face of HD lies right in the middle of a major joint system - exfoliation shapes the face. Other than the isolated bodies of diorite, which rock type in the Valley is most susceptible to weathering, regardless of surface rock quality and jointing?
Which other housing/populated areas in Yosemite Valley are in a more active rockfall area?
Thanks for posting the link to the USGS article; that rockfall map is neat – way cool. I think I posted a link to the article in the past, in other discussions.
You are probably quite busy with all of this but it would be fun to meet up in Tuolumne again sometime. There are a lot of cool things that I still want to show you. Any more thoughts on the tilted mini-seds? Is that an ash layer?
Bryan
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Oct 12, 2008 - 03:40am PT
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Hey, while we’re at it…
There is a wide (~ fist to offwidth) crack on top of the summit slabs on the climber’s left side of the Diving Board. The crack runs roughly NE/SW and when you walk along it, you can often feel cool air rising from below. A Valley view of the face, to the left of the Porcelain Wall proper reveals a large, arching roof crack with black streaks running down beneath it. This crack separates a huge amount of rock from the rest of the wall. When this sucker goes, it’s going all the way to Mirror Lake. Have a look if any of you haven’t already. It’s pretty wild.
Tick, tock…
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gstock
climber
Yosemite Valley
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Oct 12, 2008 - 11:15am PT
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Hey Bryan, of course you are right that rock type affects joint density, which in turn controls rockfall initiation. The difference in slope between the Rockslides (diorite) and the western side of El Cap (granite) illustrates this beautifully. But oddly this seems to be more true for the smaller rockfalls than the larger ones; for example, the two largest rock avalanche deposits shown on that USGS map (Mirror Lake and El Capitan Meadow) came from what you and I would probably consider to be the strongest granites in the Valley. So there is a connection between rock type and rockfalls, but not one that makes it any easier to predict future activity.
When all the "dust" settles from this event, it would be great to talk more with you about the various geologic things we've discussed, especially your earlier mapping of the SE face of El Cap. I wasn't able to finish my mapping of Mescalito, but we are making progress on that effort, and I'd really like your input.
Greg
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gstock
climber
Yosemite Valley
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Oct 12, 2008 - 11:17am PT
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And yeah, I've seen that crack behind the Diving Board. Wow.
Greg
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 12, 2008 - 01:09pm PT
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The emperor has no clothes! The emperor has no clothes!
I just thought someone should say it. Now back to an adult conversation about geology and risk management. Someday I hope to learn more about these subjects, vis-a-vis the Valley.
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Oct 12, 2008 - 01:13pm PT
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Thanks for the reply, Greg. Ahh, what do I know about rockfalls… You are the geomorphologist with the PhD! Yeah, the El Cap project sounds like fun. I’d love to help out.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Oct 12, 2008 - 01:49pm PT
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Camping in Curry is just as dangerous as climbing these days.
Maybe we should move Camp 4 to Curry, and put the Normal people in Camp 4.
I don't mean to be cold, but when someone croaks, it just means more food, gas, and toilet paper for us.
If you don't know someone personally, they are just vermin, right?
Just another car in your way, right?
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 12, 2008 - 01:51pm PT
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"but why is there not call to evacuate the coastal fault region of California, for many many more will surely perish in the next big one"
Could be the current government doesn't care too much for looking out for Democrats. Even if they're American.
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Oct 12, 2008 - 01:53pm PT
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Hear ye, hear ye!!!
California is now deemed an extremely dangerous place… Especially Yosemite!
You are all advised to leave the state immediately, until further notice. Quck, quick… time is ticking!
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Slabmonger
climber
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Oct 14, 2008 - 07:39pm PT
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I was up on the Prow during both of the rockfalls, and fortunately had a camera handy for both. It was quite a show to see from a distance, I'll see if I can get some video up later:
I believe this is from the second rock fall.
-Dan
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Oct 14, 2008 - 07:47pm PT
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spectacular, Dan!!! Thanks for sharing that.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 14, 2008 - 07:50pm PT
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Fascinating! Which rockfall is that picture from?
The NPS (Greg S) may be interested in seeing your photos and video, as they may tell them more about the falls. He's posted up-thread.
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Slabmonger
climber
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Oct 16, 2008 - 03:51pm PT
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I've added some short video and stills to you tube--the quality is rather amatuerish but I can't expect much with a point and shoot camera.
Out of the video of the first rockfall, I edited out my opening comments, something to the effect of "Holy f#!& ..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYvCirdgoeo
-Dan
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Oct 16, 2008 - 03:58pm PT
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I sure hope the seismic signal I am recording is not from Yosemite?
Juan
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Oct 16, 2008 - 06:36pm PT
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"cleo, why you no have stations around GPA?"
yes, that would be a good place for a station, all things being equal. of course, my "wants" as a scientist must be balanced with keeping wilderness ethics intact, as well as the likelihood that a site over there in the winter would be inaccessible (ever watch snow and ice avalanche down those north-facing cliffs? it's quite impressive!)
and i should say upfront, i have no idea how to predict rockfalls... i'd need a lot more data before i could claim something like that, if ever. but that's why its called an experiment, right?
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Oct 16, 2008 - 07:04pm PT
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anyone hear if Curry is considering rockfall nets?
Think it would show they are also concerned for visitor safety
as well as $$$.
Safety is a relative concept. A car seatbelt will save you from
some collisions but not all. Just as "rockfall-nets" would save
the canvas tent dwellers at Curry from a certain percentage of
high velocity stones.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 17, 2008 - 12:24am PT
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You are dreaming weschrist.
I've been here now for 38 years, and seen sh'it blow off the walls in places you'd never would have thought.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Oct 17, 2008 - 12:34am PT
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You are right Werner! After 38 years we still don't have a clue where the next big one will be. We'll have to do what the natives did, migrate or hang by the river when it is warm.
Ken
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 17, 2008 - 12:57am PT
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"anyone hear if Curry is considering rockfall nets? "
I'd be surprised if any net could do anything about those boulders in the photo which are 20+ feet high!
peace
karl
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Oct 17, 2008 - 02:22am PT
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If built, should the wall be made strong enough for the worst case event? Like a King Kong Boulder falling?
...an example of such a wall protecting the camp...
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 17, 2008 - 10:58am PT
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Wes
This is what happened .....
You've now said absolutely nothing. You've juggled a bunch of words around masqueraded as intelligence.
So many of the best Western minds have moved into the destructive realm of gross materialism.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Oct 19, 2008 - 05:07pm PT
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"It is a huge ditch that was scoured by ice... I'd have thought sh#t would blow off damn near EVERYWHERE."
It does blow off everywhere, wes. Just look at all the white scars on the cliffs. The only difference at Curry is that a lot of people are constantly around, and so the reporting rate is higher.
But don't take it from me... here's a starter article:
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1999/ofr-99-0578/
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Oct 19, 2008 - 05:21pm PT
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hey there corniss chopper... say, very clever art-work-idea-share...
say, but--as we all know, though,
with:
man vs. nature (or in THAT artistic case, nature's HUGE critter) nature or critter, wins out with a surprise pitch, you know, the ol':
curve ball, or fast ball:
as all fall back, and sit about bewildered or--run for the hills...
*(yep, i realize this is a creative endeaver, here... no harm meant)...
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andanother
climber
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Oct 19, 2008 - 05:26pm PT
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"It is a huge ditch that was scoured by ice"
Actually, Yosemite was created by a giant serpent. It's the same serpent that swallows the moon during an eclipse.
Speaking of the moon, did you know that it is 10 times farther away than our sun?
And the astronauts didn't go there. They went to the hidden planet Rahu.
WBraun, did I get all that right? I've been studying!
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Oct 20, 2008 - 01:24pm PT
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Thanks for the photo links..
and wes - I'm going to do some digging around on SOC, sounds like it might be worth a look.
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RopeNRocks
Mountain climber
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Oct 29, 2008 - 12:11am PT
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Gstock, I've been looking at the great articles you've linked to. I read about the joints called j2 that angle down to the left (east?) in all the pictures. You can see em even from far away in the valley. USGS says the Dec 26, 2003 rockfall that hit like 14 cabins was caused by rainwater seeping into j2 and following it to the face and pushing the slab off with water pressure. So it looks in the pictures posted above like there's one of those j2's going straight to the top of this new failure from the gully off to the right (west?). And, I read it was raining for days before the slide, like 2003. Any chance rain water caught in the gully followed a j2 and did the same thing as in 2003? Something to think about? Keep up the good work!
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gstock
climber
Yosemite Valley
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The most recent rockfalls did originate from beneath one of those J2 joints, and that probably helped destabilize the slab that failed on October 7 and 8. Just to the east (climber’s left) of the most recent rockfalls is a large overhanging wall. That wall (the Nine O’Clock Wall) almost certainly results from prehistoric rockfall(s) from beneath that J2 joint, and the recent rockfalls are a continuation of that.
Interestingly, the rock surface exposed after the rockfalls was completely dry when viewed from a helicopter immediately thereafter. This indicates that water in general, and recent precipitation in particular, was not involved in triggering the recent rockfalls. The lack of water also rules out freeze-thaw processes, although the air temperatures were above freezing then anyway. Neither were there any seismic events at that time that were close enough or large enough to trigger the rockfalls.
So at this point we can rule out some triggering mechanisms, but cannot specifically identify one. This is not an uncommon situation; of the more than 600 rockfalls documented in Yosemite Valley since 1857, more than half had not had reported or recognized triggering mechanisms. This means that there is still a lot of work to do to fully understand what triggers rockfalls in Yosemite Valley.
Greg Stock
Park Geologist
(209) 379-1420
greg_stock@nps.gov
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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"This means that there is still a lot of work to do to fully understand what triggers rockfalls in Yosemite Valley."
Gravity may have something to do with it. F=mA and all that. And rock reaching its elastic limit, in processes and from causes that are nearly imperceptible, but inexorable.
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honeygirl
Social climber
walnut creek,ca
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Yes we were there! I thought it was a plane crash. The sound was loud and unbearable. Scary!
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Congadulations!
you get the
Dredger of the Year award.
lets see who can make it a four, i mean three year dredger?
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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I REALLY want to see the very first posts to ST! What were we pissin' and moaning and bragging about then?
Probably Republicans...
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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the valley was formed by a plane crash. a plane carrying Marijuana. so all further rockfalls are the fault of any and all trafficers. so all litigants are entitled to sue any purveyors of canabis; ie, druglords, all dispensers of medical ganj etc. hope this helps.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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NOT!!
Yosemite was formed by a group of pioneering republicans. Good, moral, ethical, salt of the earth guys.
Democrats have been f*cking it up ever since.......
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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It's Obama's fault!
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| Messages 1 - 142 of total 142 in this topic |
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