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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 1, 2008 - 12:28pm PT
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Rob and Mike started sorting equipment at the cars.
I was aghast. It was like the Antiques Roadshow. Rob had a series of ancient carabiners including a legitimate museum piece, a Raffi Bedayan. On these relics were hanging hexes and some prototype Friends, probably hand made by Jardine himself. Mike had ancient Chouinard biners (circa 1978) which was scary enough, but then he tried to reassure me, “They’re seconds, but I have never had any problem with them; I got ‘em for free when I worked at Chouinard; ” Sure enough, each had the number “2” stamped on it. I imagined Yvon in his blacksmith apron, standing over an anvil with a ball peen hammer, stamping each one to ensure that they could never, ever be sold. I urged Rob and Mike to invest in some newer gear, perhaps something manufactured in this century.
Sundance was our goal. A classic up the middle of the Sunshine wall, done in the days when Chouinard was a young lad. Mike’s son, Ian, led the short first pitch to the ledge.
Mike and Darrell led Rob, Wendy and I up the great second pitch, first done by Pat Callis, Charlie Raymond and Larry Reynolds in 1967.
Rob and Wendy.
Impressive for its time, Sundance endures as a sterling climb. We made sure to thank Darrell, who with Kevin Powell made it a personal mission decades ago to replace the old quarter-inch bolts on this and most of the routes at Suicide.
Darrel at the 10.b crux off the ledge.
It took a while to get back into the small hold face climbing techniques of crimp holds, toe edges and smearing in minor indentations. But with a top rope it was easy to appreciate the incredible golden rock, and to rediscover how seemingly featureless passages revealed workable edges and smears when studied with a discerning eye. The dike finish of the third pitch was new to me and really good.
Then it was on to 10 Karat, on the low angle, but smooth, Weeping Wall.
Mike and Darrel on the first pitch.
After being away from the crag for 30 years, it was nice to appreciate the old stories of mastery of this route: Darell was so honed he used to regularly solo up and down the first pitch.
Another of Darrel on the first pitch.
And in the middle of the second,” Window Pane” pitch, it was sobering to imagine Randy Vogel committing to this featureless feature when he was the first to solo it.
Thanks to Darrel for motivating the group to stop talking about it and finally get together.
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L
climber
Just surfin' the tsunami of life
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Nice, Ricky!!!!
I just noticed Henny is in those superbly stylish knickers...what a break with his traditional ill-matching, ill-fitting, Salvation Army rejects (heh-heh-heh...that should get him posting up...).
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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good on you guys!
Kick Ass!
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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Hey, Old gear rules!
Well some of it anyways…
Here’s Rick on the second pitch of Sundance.
With Robs and Darrell at the belay.
It was quite a party!
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Rick
Sometimes it's nice to be on the Antique Roadshow!
(some of us are considered antiques, remember that)!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Superb TR!
Several of my old pals are packing museum hardware too! I started a concerted campaign to at least clear out the deathbiners with a little "wouldn't you feel stupid if...." speech.
The worst was an early generation Chouinard that had flaked open at the spine and was well on its way back to mineralization! Uhh, when was the last time you checked your gear dude?!?
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rmuir
Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Given our political discussions over margaritas that night in the bar, I'm thinking that this thread should be called "Hostile Elder Outing at Suicide (TR)." Ya think?
Antique Roadshow, indeed. Over 164 years of (in)experience in that team!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nice report! Though, given its title, I guess Rick is currently on the run from Mike and Rob. :-)
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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yeah we're banning Rick from the Bingo game!
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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I hear you Rick on the rack thing. This summer, for the first time, people were making remarks about my rack and exchanging looks behind my back (I'm pretty sure about that). I don't carry straight-sided stoppers (OK, I've got three of the biggest ones on perlon, but they are pretty useful) or hexentrics. I finally asked somebody what was tipping them off and it turns out that it was the rigid stem Friends with the tied slings (OK, I DID buy some of them from Ray at the Housekeeping boulder pre-Wild Country). Who would have known? I thought they marked me as a modern climber.
But, when I did a little research online I found out that the rigid-stem babies are on sale (turns out they are discontinued) -- with sewn slings! Too bad the sewn slings don't match my size-color scheme.
And - nice report, thanks for posting!
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Nutsonthechin, Wisconsin
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Good stuff!!!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Perhaps we should have a thread about museum gear on museum climbs. (No need to mention anything about 'museum' climbers.) http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=447487
I must have some stuff around, though I'm going to try to foist some of it on Ken at the FaceLift. Eventually old junk morphs into treasures.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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L - are you trying to say something? As a famous climber once told me, "Hey, don't worry about it - 'cause this ain't no fashion show, babe."
Actually, those "superbly stylish knickers" are the ticket. Get a pair, and your leading instantly improves by a couple of letters, maybe even a grade or two. OK, maybe not... But they really are the ticket.
And yeah, that gear was scary. Lucky for me the pitches I led had bolts and I didn't need to place any of it.
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dogtown
climber
Where I once was,I think?
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More Please!
Bruce
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Looks like the new hotties missed the old hotties up there!
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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superb climbs!
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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DE -
Cool picture. An outside edge high step step through. Wow.
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rmuir
Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Apropos, and worth reposting...
From an original 8"x10" black-and-white taken by Larry Reynolds. ...Ivan "Bud" Couch leading Sundance, circa (I'm guessing) somewhere in the late sixties. FA: Callis, Raymond and Harrell, 1967. And, if I recall correctly, Larry indicated that it was taken during a early repeat of the route, so maybe this was taken in 1968/69.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Robs,
Where did you get that picture from?
A few things that jump out at me:
1) There doesn't appear to be very many dead trees in the background. I remember when it looked like that prior to the bark beetles. Wish it still did.
2) Look at those shoes! (It even looks like the leather uppers in the toe areas might be blown out.) I was initially thinking how cool it would have been to be able to climb there with all that unclimbed rock everywhere you looked. Then I realized, Hohoho Man, what am I thinking? I wouldn't be able to step off the ground in shoes like those!
3) Sundance really was a brilliant route, a statement route, for when it was done, wasn't it? In particular the sizable runout from the last bolt to the belay. 1967. In that footwear. Impressive.
4) How wierd. It's strange to look at the Sunshine and not see the vivid colors of the rock.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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absolutely great pic, Robs.
Thanks for posting.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Thanks Darrell, and we loved your story. It helped get us back up there. I love the place again, it is totally uncrowded. The last couple of times we went there were only 5 parties or less on the whole crag!
Classic pic of Couch, those Khronhoffers (or Pivettas?)ARE blown out.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Awesome! Thanks for the share.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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DE -
Yeah, I've been there a couple of times during the week this year and haven't seen even one other party. Absolutely killer solitude.
I sent you an email a little while back with regards to plans Mike and I were making at the time for repeating Moondance. Wish you could have made it for that one. I had a question that I'd still like an answer on, who was responsible for the runout at the end of the first pitch, you or Craig?
We should try to get together for something up there this fall. (dig this, I've been there enough times this year that I might even be able to vaguely claim I'm a local in a kind of abstract way.)
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there .. say, i liked that last (think it was the last) black and white picture, too---and i was wondering about the shoes, as well... looked like hiking shoes.... great picture, great zeroing in and angle.. and very clear....
*i would not understand about the tree area, in the background, though???
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Darrell, I finished the pitch, so that would be me (bitd).
I aspire to repeat it next year. Without the gnarley direct start.
I would like to hook up, however you might have to be satisfied with less than 5.11+.
I feel like I am starting over!
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guyman
Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Good to see yer getting out.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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neebee -
The area (Idyllwild, and also many others) went through a stage a while back where there was a serious bark beetle infestation. The end result was that many trees ended up dying. While the majority of trees are still alive and healthy (so it appears) the general view of the forest as one looks out over it from the formations now contains a much higher percentage of dead trees than what can be seen in that black and white photo.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Couch was my mentor in 1969. Under his guidance, I did my first 5.10 lead. It's sad that he passed away at such a young age.
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bwancy1
Trad climber
Here
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Great TR!
I love old gear too. Heads up on those old BD or Chouinard biners though..the gate tends to crack near the hinge pin. I found about 5 cracked ones on my rack, and three or four other ones on friend's racks over the years. Inspect them closely!
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Sipping coffee here and taking my time over your, as usual, Super TR.....
although almost skipped it cause I fell for the elder hostel outing title. Thought someone was teaching my Mom and Da's group how to....
If any of you guys need to replace your worn out antique gear I've got plenty more, only "slightly used" in the closet. hehe Lynne
Edit: almost skipped cause didn't look at thread author....teach me a lesson : )
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Great photos and TR guys. Sundance is such a great climb on superb rock. Still, it almost seems like cheating to put Henny on the sharp end. Love the antique gear bit; I still get comments about some old stuff on my rack.
The shot of Ivan Couch on Sundance is classic. I remember when Ski Mart had several large prints of Larry Reynolds' shots (including that one) adorning its walls. To a neophite like me, they were inspirational and intimidating at the same time.
DE, love the shot of Jake on Surprise.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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I have a bunch of the old Chewy hexes(even sided) that weren't hexcentric that are almost new. I would donate them to a worthy cause, just pay the shipping.
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rmuir
Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Darrell, that photo of Couch was scanned from an original photo that Reynolds handed me years ago...
And, yeah, talk about beat-up old Kronies:
Whew! Must have been on a school-teacher's salary or summah...
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Nice thread!
thanks y'all,
Zander
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BeeHay
Trad climber
San Diego CA
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Good to see you there last Sunday DE. Hot Buttered Rump is still classic, been a long time, easy to protect with cams now.
We did "Ours", some young girl walked by and commented on the height of 1st bolt, made some crack about 'big egos in those days'. No clue about ground up, and how hard it was to stop and hand drill in EB's, or worse. 1972, was it? Graham?
We finished with Obscured by Clouds, have those bolts gotten farther apart? It's been 15-20 yrs. Getting ready, a young guy asked about Sundance, he knew the 1st pitch is a lieback, 'does the sport climbing start on the 2nd pitch?' Does bolt protection make a sport route? O. by Clouds felt like what we used to call 'sporty', a subtle but important distinction. When that bolt passes below your feet, then ten, then fifteen or more feet, is that sport, or sporty?
Damn kids, 'get off my lawn!'.
Sure was a fun day. Brad
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Nutsonthechin, Wisconsin
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hahaha! good stuff Brad!
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 5, 2008 - 09:35am PT
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Mike-Great shots!You really captured the golden hue of the rock.
Donini-Do tell about your first 5.10 lead with Couch. Everyone would love to hear that story.
Rob-“Hostile Elders” is rich, whether the subject is politics or climbing ethics!
Randy-This would be the place to describe that solo of 10K.
Largo should retell the story of sandbagging Ivan at the County Park boulders, or maybe someone can find that thread?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Rick- After getting out of the Army I started climbing in the Tetons and migrated to Idlywild after reading an article by Chouinard in the American Alpine Journal. In the article Yvon said that Tahquitz Rock was a good traing ground for Yosemite- my ultimate dream. Bud Couch was happy to see an eager, if inexperienced, climber move to town and took me under his wing. He had me work up the grades and my first 5.8 lead was the Traitor Horn followed by the Open Book (5.9). I remember him telling me that I was ready for 5.10 and that he had the perfect one for me. As I recall the climb's name was Diddly. I don't remember too much about the climb- the Open Book made more of an impression on me. I also met Phil Gleason while in Idlywild and went to Yosemite with him that Spring. Bud met me in the Valley later, but for some reason he could never master crack climbing.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Sport climbing on Sundance? Must have been retro-bolted, ha!
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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Dave it looks like Jake is off to a good start with his footwork, he’s even looking where he puts them. Nice!
Great shots and stories about Couch. I bouldered with him once but never got to climb. Had a lot more interaction with Reynolds, Dent and Powell. Always thought those guys were the real deal and would soak up everything they would say, sandbags and all.
Pretty classic on the Ego comment above. When you really think about the distance to that first bolt, its in the first spot that would really start protecting you from sliding the ground. It’s pretty quick that your first piece of pro becomes useless. Seems useless to drill 5-8 off the ground or three times in 20 feet when its only one bolt that matters. I remember the boot that day were RR’s. I would think a pretty confident 5.8 climber could get to that bolt and feel good about it. Might even boost his or her ego a little.
I finally did “Ours” a second time this spring with John Sherman. Felt as thin as it did back in ’72 and all the bolts still seemed to be in the right places.
Obscured like Sundance is one where you’re protected well at the cruxes but start to distance yourself from bolts on easier ground. Even today when I lead the second pitch of Sundance I take pause and collect myself for the 40-50’ out 5.6 moves up the dihedral. Thinking Couch had an ego is nowhere in the process. Just be smiling when you clip the bolts and you’ll be fine.
Yes they’re sporty!
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Salutations to the Western Elder Hostel from your decrepit brethern in the Eastern branch. Keep on dodderin'
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scuffy b
climber
Elmertown
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Sundance was my first 5.10 lead, too. I was supposed to follow the 2nd pitch, but things didn't quite go according to plan.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Ho ho, after Dick Williams climbed Shockley's ceiling nude, folks got the idea that all they had to do to be a Vulgarian was to take off their clothes. Robbins, naked or not, was about as far from a Vulgarian as it was possible for a climber to be. A nudist for a day, maybe.
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 7, 2008 - 12:01pm PT
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Rich,
That picture is of Royd Riggins, who went to high school with Largo and me. I am sure he had no knowledge of the Vulgarian tradition at that time in 1972. Except for what appeared in Summit Magazine, we had very little knowledge of what occurred at other climibing areas.
That day, Largo led Diddly (probably one of John's first 5.10 leads, too) and when Royd appeared from the belay, he had inexplicably decided to take off his clothes. He was just a free spirit. He died a few years later. Largo named a route at Suicide after him, "Pink Royd."
In his honor, I will make a motion that the next Elder Hostel outing be "clothing optional."
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Jefe'
Boulder climber
Bishop
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I gave him that name. Spent a lot of time with Royd. Went to Washington to work in my Grandfather's Pear Orchard and when I got to his house, who walks out, Pink Royd and Ging Gingerich. They had been hitching thru Canada for a few months.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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I did the route long ago and always wondered about the name. Didn't think it was a person! LOL
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C. Small wall climber.
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I forget whose did this picture, but it's quite witty.
It might be fun to do some climbs with names like Elder Hostel and Antiques Roadshow, and see what the market thinks. Maybe we could crush some sick problems...
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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So many route names, so little time...LOL
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