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travelin_light
Trad climber
california
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 13, 2008 - 11:30am PT
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Are these reliable? Good metal quality? I planned on using a a plated wedge design (3/8" x 3") in bomber granite in an alpine setting.
I know there is better stuff but is this an adequate selection?
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Aug 13, 2008 - 11:53am PT
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Don't concern yourself. Odds are they'll hold.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Aug 13, 2008 - 12:01pm PT
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I've used those for sandstone but it's been awhile (10 yrs) and I don't know they are acceptable by modern standards. Three inches sounds pretty deep for bomber granite, especially if you are hand drilling.
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jstan
climber
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Aug 13, 2008 - 12:06pm PT
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I have used red head bolts - in poured concrete footings.
Obvious comments.
You have to have a hole with good geometry
the hole has to be clean
the harder the rock the better
If someone's life is riding on it, do you really want to go cheap?
If you are going to do it, do it as well as you know how.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Aug 13, 2008 - 12:43pm PT
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There are some cheaper wedge anchors out there, and I really can't recomend using them.
If you're going to the trouble to drill a hole, use a good bolt. When you consider the effort and expense to travel to a remote location, spending a few more bucks on a good bolt just doesn't amount to much.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Aug 13, 2008 - 01:17pm PT
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You can buy 3/8"x3" SS bolts for just a few cents more than plated steel. You should use SS wherever possible.
Bruce
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pcousar
Sport climber
White Salmon, WA
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Aug 13, 2008 - 01:37pm PT
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Hey BHilden, could you post a link for that comparison???
edited....
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Nate D
climber
San Francisco
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Aug 13, 2008 - 03:00pm PT
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Yes, my friends and I use 'em - in VERY hard granite and ONLY Stainless. sizes 3/8" x 2.25" to 3/8" x 3"
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Aug 13, 2008 - 03:12pm PT
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www.mcmaster-carr.com
Bruce
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 13, 2008 - 03:18pm PT
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I've heard that real climbers use only 1/4" Rawl compression split-shaft bolts.
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jahmon
climber
AK
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Aug 13, 2008 - 04:04pm PT
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I just bought a box of 3/8" x 2.25" stainless red heads, they went for just under $1/. Should be good enough...
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travelin_light
Trad climber
california
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 13, 2008 - 05:01pm PT
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Thanks guys.
Looks like the Red Heads (wedge design) will do. I guess they are going to be hard to replace (re-drilling likely) down the road so I should go with SS.
Then there is always the Rawl 5-Piece. Looks like plated is OK because these are much easier to replace when necessary.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Aug 13, 2008 - 05:17pm PT
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Rawl 5 piece is a bitch to replace in my experience. raw. powerstuds in stainless steel. I got a box of 50 3/8 X 2 3/4" for .90 cents apiece.
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ec
climber
ca
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Aug 13, 2008 - 06:18pm PT
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"alpine setting" 1/4ers, 5/16's or no bolts at all (better).
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travelin_light
Trad climber
california
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 13, 2008 - 07:00pm PT
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^^^Would love to. I think this will pick up some traffic when its all said and done.
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Juan Maderita
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Aug 13, 2008 - 09:40pm PT
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I have placed hundreds of ITW Ramset-Redhead "Trubolt" 3/8" SS wedge anchors in Baja. They are a quality bolt at a very reasonable price. That's my preferred bolt for a dry climate, granite, trad area.
Contrary to the above inferences, wedge anchors cannot be replaced. Exception (sort of): By overtorqueing to the extreme, they will often snap at the cone. Thus, if a long bolt was used originally, a shorter bolt might be placed in the same hole.
There is no good reason to use carbon steel, except for being a cheapskate. Trubolts are available in 304 SS and in the more corrosion resistant 316 SS. Save money in boxes of 50.
2-3/4" is a good length, unless you are using a rotohammer, then use 3-3/4".
Hilti is another quality brand, though more expensive. Their wedge anchor is the "Kwik Bolt".
Beware of cheaper brands made offshore and anything out of a hardware store bin.
Wedge anchors are only for hard rock, such as granite, dense basalt, and quartzite. (No wonder "onthedgewasscaredtodeath" using wedge anchors in sandstone!)
Be sure to use proper torque (Do Not Over-torque). Since you are not likely to have a torque wrench in an alpine setting, torqueing might be practiced on concrete and checked so that you will know what the proper torque feels like with a 6" end wrench. Check manufacturer's specs - around 20-22 lbs. ft. for 3/8" SS (carbon steel will accept higher torque values).
Always use the proper size bits. Drill slightly deeper than the bolt. Clean the hole thoroughly: blow, brush, blow, until clean.
To prevent theft of hangers: Install the hanger, flat washer and nut on the bolt. Weld a tiny bead on the tip/outer threads, just a small drop in a 1 second pull on the trigger. It's easy with a MIG (wire feed) and auto-darkening helmet.
"pcousar" above was confused about bolt types. Cost of a "Trubolt" wedge anchor, 3/8" SS, is between $1.25 and $1.80
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Aug 13, 2008 - 09:50pm PT
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If you don't have a welder, a properly wielded cold chisel will properly bugger the threads to prevent hanger theft. Heck, most folks hammer blows when setting wedge anchors are suficient to bugger the threads to prevent hanchor theft.
I still use 1/2" carbon steel 5 1/2" wedge anchors and 3/8" chain for rap anchors. Pretty bomber setup and reasonably priced.
I also picked up just shy of 3 boxes of 3/8" 3 1/2" stainless rawl bolts on e-bay for $90. So deals are out there if you keep your eyes pealed.
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MisterE
Social climber
My Inner Nut
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Aug 13, 2008 - 09:58pm PT
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FIRE IN THE HOLE!!!!
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slobmonster
Trad climber
berkeley, ca
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Aug 13, 2008 - 11:02pm PT
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I've also had good luck with McMaster-Carr
http://www.mcmaster.com
part #s:
92405A200
92405A202
and so forth. All on the same catalog page.
It looks like SS is getting more expensive... but I'd agree with some of the above that it IS worth the money. Personally, I don't see a place for carbon-steel anchors except Joshua Tree or crags near Moab.
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Strider
Trad climber
one of god's mountain temples....
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Aug 13, 2008 - 11:57pm PT
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Wow, if you guys are paying $5 for SS 3/8" x 2.25" Stainless Steel Wedge bolts then you are freaking crazy!
Find a Powers Fasteners rep/store or email me and you can get 100 bolts for $1.11 each/$111 for a box. I have a Powers store down the street from my house, I went down and talked to the guy to work out a deal. He thought I was crazy (being a climber) but he was impressed and said that was the best he could do for only 100. So if I buy more I might be able to get a better deal. If I buy a box of 50 then I have to pay around $70 but still cheaper than $5!!!
Now if you want a 5-piece or something like that, then $3-5 bucks for SS is about normal. Wedge bolts are slightly weaker than a 5-piece but not much.
Happy bolting
-n
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