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Lynne Leichtfuss

Social climber
valley center, ca
May 30, 2008 - 06:15pm PT
This is about the only negative thing I'll say on ST.

There is no hope in politics, no matter which side you choose.

I always vote, then later ask, Why?

May 30, 2008 - 06:15pm PT
I can't wait to see them on state together debating each other.

May 30, 2008 - 06:34pm PT
McCain's supporters should be worried. The fact he hasn't cracked 46% during a time when Dems have been at each other's throats is not a good sign for him.

East of Seattle
May 30, 2008 - 06:47pm PT

As reported by Fox and polling Mississippi?

Besides it looks like Hillary's ahead in the popular vote...


East of Seattle
May 30, 2008 - 06:53pm PT
Means Rasmussen's results are a statiscal anomaly. It should be discarded as a useful poll. Pick one in the middle or average them all.


Dingus Milktoast

May 30, 2008 - 06:59pm PT
Actually I was speaking of California polls. Should have said so, sorry. 3 polls in the last week have McCain down by 15+ points.

Must be that cochair stronghold.

Mighty Hiker

Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
May 30, 2008 - 07:09pm PT
I thought Bill Clinton was in charge of messages of hope. He's from Hope, Arkansas after all.

wherever my mind exists
May 30, 2008 - 07:18pm PT
Gallup has Obama at 46% vs McCain at 45%
and Clinton at 47% vs McCain at 45%

It's basically a dead even heat.


Trad climber
May 30, 2008 - 07:21pm PT
There are far too many variables this time around to make an educated guess at who will win in the national. One will be the "pissed off" factor among dems: will or will not many female dems vote for McCain or stay home when Obama takes the nomination. Another is to what degree is racism a factor when voters get in the booth. I've never experienced such a confused Presidential contest before; think Chaos Theory with this one.

Social climber
So Cal
May 30, 2008 - 08:08pm PT

Vampira is out of it.

Trad climber
primordial soup
May 30, 2008 - 08:11pm PT
the polls cannot accurately place public opinion until the D base has settled on one candidate, responders to polls potentially have agendas and those are in play until it's a one on one race, period.

once it's mccain and obama, it will be a double didgit spread or close, and the press knows this, it just doesn't make for good copy.

crap, the rethugs can't even win these special elections in historically strong congressional districts, the writing is on the wall, and anyone who says it will be close is a joker or an idiot or both.

mccain is the new dukakis... read 'em and weap!

Trad climber
May 30, 2008 - 08:12pm PT
All the polls are within the margin of error. I'd like to see the polls that shows Obama "smashing" McCain.

Trad climber
primordial soup
May 30, 2008 - 08:47pm PT
just wait til that one "poll" that counts!

Where you want to be
May 30, 2008 - 09:50pm PT
They didn't call me! The day I'll believe a poll, is, well, never. LOTS of people aren't in the phone book, and LOTS of people (especially anti-social, cantankerous hillbillies such as my self) would never in a million years stay on the phone with an unsolicited call.
Just my .02$.

SKIPT- If you're so sure, let's put some money on it. I'm dead serious. Talk is cheap. You can blather all day about how McCain (give me a break!) is going to trounce Obama. In the end, it's just weightless words.

Trad climber
Butte, America
May 30, 2008 - 09:52pm PT
I've been called (and responded to) two times so far for polls: 1 State, 1 National.

They are, at best, crap (or a crap shoot) . The margin of error is grossly inaccurate IMO.

Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
May 30, 2008 - 10:09pm PT
seriously, it's not enough to just defeat McCain. it's time for the entire Republican party to become extinct. i'm sick of the b.s. constantly spewed from Bush and McBush2's mouth. i'm angry at the direction they have lead and want to continue to lead my country. it's disgusting and it's time for them all to be out of their jobs. is anyone even paying attention to how much anger their is out their against this regime? it's going to bubble over one day. if McSame wins it's sure to hit the boiling point. if Obama wins there is a chance the whole damn thing won't explode -but only a chance.

Social climber
The West
May 30, 2008 - 10:18pm PT
"9 out of 10 Youtubes on McCain reveal a dottering, flip floppin old dilly wagger."

 nice wording! Not that it isn't the truth.

like fish in a barrel...

Trad climber
May 30, 2008 - 10:40pm PT
There's another factor that I've not seen discussed yet and is very real: experienced voters have learned that giving the government--executive and congress--to the same party usually results in poor government. To what degree this will play, I don't know; but it will play. Too many STopians are seeing what they want to see at this point. I wouldn't bet on either at this juncture; however, my instincts tell me that McCain is stronger across the country than some think.

Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
May 31, 2008 - 12:30am PT
McCain=Bush =



Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
May 31, 2008 - 01:22am PT
Well skip, we've seen Bush, with McCain’s nose right up his ass, drive our country into recession.

They have used false propaganda to lead us into a war for their profits. During the process they murdered 10s of thousands of innocent Iraqi's. I call that evil in my book Skipt.

Horrible foreign policy, bad decisions and this ridiculous war have given us a record deficit at the cost of over 4000 of our soldier’s lives and a mangled force returning to America and not properly cared for.

Alqeida is stronger than ever, Osama is still on the loose.

When the oil companies announce their next quarter earnings there will again be record profits. The Repubs know how to line their pockets at the cost of thousands of jobs sent over seas.

I find them hypocrites when the Repubs say no to stem cell research in the name of religion, opposing a womens right to choose, opposing gay marriage, but supporting the murder of war. WTF

Millions of Americans are loosing their homes. No one has been minding the store for eight years.

There is no incentive for America to lead the world in alternative technology. We have a president in the oil business Sipt and McCain will carry on the good ol boy policy until we are driven out of the universe.

I loathe everything Bush and McCain stand for.

They are Evil
Patrick Sawyer

Originally California now Ireland
May 31, 2008 - 02:20am PT
What a slugfest.

Both in the primaries and here on ST.

I am really pissed off that I do not have a viable candidate to vote for.

But I would suppose that anybody running for the POTUS is not going to be above politics as it is.

McCann = Bush

Hillary = no nomination

Obama = the second coming of Christ

Please, give me a break....

...or at least a decent candidate I can vote for.

Hope lives eternal.

or is that springs eternal? I always get confused this time of year until the summer solstice.

(CUE: those who do not agree with me can use the word 'confused' against me)
John Moosie

Beautiful California
May 31, 2008 - 02:27am PT
Hey Skip,

Is it really any better to use a snide and dismissive tone versus a profanity? Just wondering.

chica from chico, I don't claim to be a daisy
May 31, 2008 - 02:38am PT
OMG..he said ASS.....You hear worse from 5th graders.

Shame on you Mtnmum.......... NOT..........

Captain...or Skully

Social climber
May 31, 2008 - 02:41am PT
But John McCain Is at best a 'turd' , & worst a stinking turd.Not a viable choice. sketchy. At Best.
Dingus Milktoast

May 31, 2008 - 07:22am PT
McCain's problem is a good portion of his own party hates him.


Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
May 31, 2008 - 12:01pm PT
I don't hate skipt, I see it as a moral issue. I see it as an economic issue. I see it as an environmental issue and the stewertship of our beautiful planet.

You have addressed none of the issues. You have catagorized Obama supporters as haters, tell us what is McCain going to do to make our lives better?

The Warbler

the edge of America
May 31, 2008 - 12:10pm PT
"The amount of vicious hate coming from "Obama" supporters is overwhelming..."

Whatever it takes, whatever you call it, as long as it's overwhelming (in Nov.) - it's all good.

Trad climber
boulder, co.
May 31, 2008 - 01:02pm PT
The Woodstroke said; "There's another factor that I've not seen discussed yet and is very real: experienced voters have learned that giving the government--executive and congress--to the same party usually results in poor government".

That does explain the disaster this administration has been.

But at least we can be greatful there were no oval office blow jobs.
The Warbler

the edge of America
May 31, 2008 - 01:05pm PT
From blow jobs to snow jobs.

Which do you prefer?
John Moosie

Beautiful California
May 31, 2008 - 02:17pm PT
I agree with you too Skip, I don't think it is a done deal. Although I do think that some folks are correct that say the polls don't really mean anything until the Dems pick their candidate.

As for the anger, I think there is something to be learned here. Those folks who usually vote Democrat spent a whole lot of years putting up with attacks on Bill Clinton because he was a womanizer. We listened to a whole lot of hatred that usually ignored whatever good was being done, such as balancing the budget for the first time in years and years. This all from Republicans who claimed to be for fiscal responsibility. Then we listen over and over to Republicans saying that Dems aren't fiscally responsible, even though recent history shows it is the Repubs who spend more.

Personally I get tired of folks not paying attention to facts. I also got fed up with the constant barrage of attacks. It built up an anger in me.

Then we got George Bush. The repubs had complained about Bill Clinton lying about having sex, but couldn't see that their chosen leader was lying about an issue that seemed much more important. Most folks that I know who were Dems knew that Bill Clinton was lying about not having sex "with that woman". I personally was embarrassed for Bill Clinton when he made that foolish error. Yet I could take some comfort in the Good he seemed to be doing, at least as concerns the budget.

With George, we got lies and more lies plus arrogance seemed to be on sell 10 for a dollar at walmart. Everyone wanted to show that they could be more arrogant then the next person. So more people became pissed off and they attacked and attacked George Bush. I include myself in the ranks of those who attacked.

Now we have a new election coming up and instead of focusing on the issues, we have more personal attacks.

So what have I learned. I don't think I am finished learning, but there have been a few things I have learned.

As an American, I can't just vote and then close my eyes for the next four years. I can't be a lazy voter. That applies wether I am a Republican or a Democrat. I learned that I didn't like the reputation of Dems as being fiscally foolish, and so I started speaking up to my chosen leaders to pay more attention to not wasting money and not just throw money at a problem.

Another thing I have learned and am learning is the need to turn the other cheek if I really want to learn anything or if I want to keep things from devolving into just a bunch of name calling. I still fail at this from time to time so I hope for forgiveness and in return I am willing to forgive. First if necessary by turning the other cheek.

To some these might seem like quaint ideas, but I have seen them work. I have better conversations and I learn more about my fellow man, a person I will have to work with if I hope to help solve any of the serious problems America faces.

These are what I consider to be serious problems. And not in any order.

An over blown tax system.....When the head of the IRS admits he doesn't know half the tax codes, then something is wrong.

An out of control budget with a growing national debt. I don't like passing debt on to our children.

A failing education system. Teachers cant afford to buy homes where they teach. Kids aren't safe. We don't seem to be able to weed out the worst teachers. We are falling behind so many other countries when you use to be close to first. And on and on. We seem to be going backwards even though there are many many devoted professionals in the teaching profession.

A health system that ignores 20 percent of our population. This is unconscionable to me.

A broken immigration system.

I am certain I am forgetting some issues, I could go on but these seem to cover much of what concerns me.

So what does America focus its might, its will, its energy? The war on terror. A war that in my mind is really about dealing with a few hundred to a few thousand people who are pissed at life and are willing to hurt others to show how pissed they are. They are a nail sticking up and we keep hitting it with a steam roller instead of a hammer. We seem to have lost our minds. It is estimated that we will spend more then 2 Trillion dollars on this issue. That boggles my mind. We may have slowed the terrorist down from attacking us, but we have created more of them. So this will be an on going thing for the rest of our born days. That doesn't seem like a good solution to me.

In the meantime we cut school budgets and then wonder when the best teachers leave and our schools fail.

So you wonder if I am angry. Yes I feel a sense of anger, but more a sense of frustration that we can't seem to have real open dialog without devolving into madness. And I am willing to point the finger at myself here.

There is another issue I have forgotten. When did we become a country that thinks it is okay to torture people? Somehow I missed that shift. I remember studying about WW2 and talking to my family members who served during this war and America did not stand for torture. We understood that we might miss out on some important information, but that was better then falling to the level of being torturers. Personally I think we have become chicken( add your own profanity here)

I think you have claimed to be Christian, I am not certain and if I am wrong, then I apologize. But Jesus said that if we seek to save our physical life, then we risk our eternal soul. This doesn't mean we can ignore our physical temple, it means we don't place our own safety above doing what is right.

It astonishes me that someone like McCain, who has been tortured, can look the other way and in essence give his blessing to America becoming Torturers of human beings. I can not and will not ever accept torture as being a reasonable solution.

In conclusion, we can leave off our anger and start figuring out how to talk together and work together, or this boat can sink. America is still a great country and I love it, but I see the writing on the wall. We have started torturing people because we are afraid. We have started attacking countries because we are afraid. The bible says we will reap what we sow. Science says that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. If we don't learn to respond to each other from a position of Love, then we will reap the anger and fear we give out. Including the anger of war. This is not a legacy I wish to leave our children.

Thanks for listening. I hope this helps you understand me better. I apologize for the length. I know some don't like to read mini novelas.


Lost Arrow

Trad climber
The North Ridge of the San Fernando
May 31, 2008 - 03:44pm PT
7$ for a gallon of Gas. Food prices through the roof.


May 31, 2008 - 06:33pm PT
Hey skipt: what the f*#k have you f*#king got against f*#king profanity, you f*#king f*#ker?

Hey pc: Hilarity only leads the popular vote if you count MI and FL (where obama didn't campang or was not on the ballot after they BOTH promised not to do so) AND if you discount caucus states where individual votes aren't recorded in primaries and which, coincidentally, turned out for obama.

Hey mikltoast: your right. McPain will get crushed.
Patrick Sawyer

Originally California now Ireland
May 31, 2008 - 09:57pm PT
Spot on post, John Moosie.

Toomey, another Obama apologist it seems.

Jun 1, 2008 - 11:11am PT
Not really. Just recognize the facts. Hilarity Clinton has run amok. her campaign is confused and desperate and the popular vote thing is a example of the faulty, selective logic she uses to try to make it look like shes winner.

Skippity: gee whiz. Just a gag. You got kinda sore over a fella using "A Doubble S" in a post. I thought that was funny. Like when my mom got flustered back in the 50s if I said damn.

Social climber
N. lake Tahoe
Jun 1, 2008 - 11:23am PT

Welcome to ST.

Now go f*#k yourself.

Trad climber
Butte, America
Jun 2, 2008 - 02:19pm PT
Would that be Midget Land ? Hehe.

Just kidding, carry on kids.

edit: Oops, I meant to say Oz.

Jun 2, 2008 - 02:37pm PT
And yet McCain still can't crack 46-47%, his base doe snot trust him, he's old, and he's one of the faces of failing political party, so in all likelihood he will end his years of public service retiring as a US Senator.

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Jun 2, 2008 - 03:06pm PT
If we could only get 100 of them to retire.
And then 435 in the other house. . .

Mountain climber
Jun 2, 2008 - 03:20pm PT
This whole thread has been about percentages, popular vote, polls.

Since when did that stop shrub from getting in twice and doing the warLord's work?

Quit looking for hope in a future that is still run by the same guys of the past.

Look to the past, see the trends, realize that your vote means nil, and that McCain will be the next president if he is still sleeping with the shrub's friends, the oil barons and warlords.

This idea that both skipt and fattrad have is the same as all the other supertopoers who are Obama's cheerleaders. You are all in the same boat and poking holes in it fighting with each other.

Except for Fattrad, I know you all want the same thing. Good ol' America back, no torture, no recession, no war.

Somehow you think you will get that with one of the two choices handed to you.

America was screaming for change in 06, senate, congress changed from Repub to Democrat. What changed in government?

Another lesson skipped over by most of you.

Arguing Obama vs. McCain is pointless.
If Obama IS different, he will be taken out if he makes office.

What you all need to do is review your past 10 years history, put your heads together and put all this energy into a solution. Quit shooting at each other, you are all in the same boat.

Shooting holes in a Red and Blue boat that is headed over a waterfall is just kinda stupid, don't you think?


Trad climber
The state of confusion
Jun 2, 2008 - 03:25pm PT

Actually, it might speed up the process--and that would
be a very good thing. . .

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Nov 15, 2012 - 11:10pm PT

John McCain is the man, I've been told.

Social climber
Nov 15, 2012 - 11:13pm PT
Well he is a man; but you "da man".
John M

Nov 15, 2012 - 11:22pm PT
Deja vu man.. this thread is hilarious..

Sorry Dingus,

I have to call a "bullsh!t" alert on this one.

You only wish it was as clear as you say.

The latest poll results from Rasmussen. (The most current on Real Clear Politics.)

Rasmussen Tracking

05/26 - 05/29 1600 Likely Voters
43% Obama 46% McCain

That would put McCain ahead by +3.0

The best numbers for a Republican Presidential Candidate at this time in the race for many an election.

What was the relevance of that Savimbi question again?


Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Nov 16, 2012 - 02:23am PT
Actually, analysis of polling data implicates Rassmussen as one of the most inaccurate, Republican-biased pollsters of the 2012 race (at least in the last 3 weeks, which can be compared to the presidential outcome for an estimate of accuracy).

Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 16, 2012 - 02:32am PT
"...analysis of polling data implicates Rassmussen as one of the most inaccurate..."

That's worth restating, and corroborating:

Credit: 538blog, Nate Silver

The two most well-known conservative-leaning pollsters, Rasmussen & Gallup, are right at the bottom of the accuracy chart.

Don't believe the GOP-hype.
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