maximus
Sport climber
Linz, Austria
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 13, 2008 - 10:31pm PT
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Hi!
First Iīve to apologise for my english - Iīm from Austria and unfortunetaly not in a "good english-shape".
To my question: My girlfriend and I are planning an rock climbing trip for 6 weeks. As we climbend in the Red Rocks 2 years ago and really loved it, we wanted to go again to the Vegas-Area for a couple of days.
At our last visit our car wasnīt able to manage the dirt road to Black Velvet Wall. Of course we definetely want to climb the classics on this wall, but we fear that the road will not be better this year, and our budget will still not be as huge as we have to pay for a high clearance vehikel.
Can anybody tell me how long weīve to walk from the parking lot at the 160?
And do anybody know camping-possibilities when the 13 mile-campground is full?
Thanks a lot for answers.
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The user formerly known as stzzo
Armchair climber
Sneaking up behind you
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Apr 13, 2008 - 11:49pm PT
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Are you renting a car? Just get the extra insurance :-). I drove in all the way with a VW Passat a couple of years ago - just went slowly and carefully.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 14, 2008 - 07:08am PT
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I have taken compact rental car in there. and seen many small cars in there. Get the extra insurance and go slow. Have one person get out and direct you for the tricky section. Don't be afraid to move a few rocks if you have to but that is unlikly.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Apr 14, 2008 - 07:39am PT
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Be careful about any advice you get here from people who have done this in the past. For now, the way into BV has been almost completely rerouted because of construction at the roadhead of the usual approach. Make sure that any opinions you get come from people who have driven the current route recently.
I did it a few times about a month ago in a high-clearance vehicle. It wasn't much of a problem if you drove carefully and watched out for big rocks, but there was one short steep section that was more worrisome and that bit is apparently deteriorating rapidly. Getting an ordinary sedan in there may not be practical any more, and high clearance without 4WD may not be enough either.
At least one poster on Mountain Project parked before the bad hill and hiked in straight across the desert. Said it took an hour and a half to the BV wall, which isn't too bad. But if you are coming out in the dark, you'd either need a GPS unit or have to walk the road back to your car, which would add a lot more time.
Mountain Project seems, at the moment, to be the definitive source of information about this.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 14, 2008 - 07:45am PT
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Yikes! that ups the anty a bit!!
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Apr 14, 2008 - 08:33am PT
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An inspection of the area via Google Earth indicates that there is a track---part of it may be a bike trail---more or less directly from the highway to the usual BV parking area. Total length is about two miles. You start by parking at a substantial turnoff at 36 deg 1.085 min N, 115 deg 25.131 min W. The track shouldn't be a problem with a GPS unit, but without one your chances of finding the beginning and staying on route at the end would poor, I think. In any case, I don't think you'd be able to keep on it on the way out in the dark without such a unit.
A second option is to walk the usual approach road (that is currently closed to vehicle traffic). That's about two and a half miles. Maybe renting mountain bikes and riding it is the way to go...
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Apr 14, 2008 - 08:40am PT
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The road is a lot worse than normal since the normal entrance is closed.
This thread is the better source of info on mountain project:
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/nevada/how_to_access_black_velvet_during_renovation_of_the_late_night_parking_lot/106080836
Construction will take quite a while longer, sounds like the BLM contractor and the Nevada highway department are arguing over putting a turn lane on 160.
The signed & marked alternate route in has one short hill just past the Windy Peak parking that is near-4x4 just because it's steep and ditched out. I put my truck in low-range 4x4 just to avoid tearing up the road. However, I only took that way once (out of 3 or 4 trips in the last month) - the better way is to keep driving straight at the two intersections on either side of the Windy Peak area (actually what is marked on the map on the above thread, although it's very hard to tell). Going straight along the NNE running road (instead of turning towards Windy) has more rocks that you have to go slow around, but it avoids the short steep section.
In any case, I wouldn't recommend trying the current BVC approach without high clearance - moderate clearance OK if you don't care about your vehicle, or you're really good at offroad driving.
The mountain bike trails in that area are fairly complex, here's a map (north side trails is the correct one) http://mcghies.com/page.cfm?pageID=292 - but this map doesn't have a bike trail that I rode last year that goes across from near Mud Springs to BVC. The trail may have been closed, it really sucked (the only trail in the area which was super sandy - the rest of the trails are great!). If you hike the bike trails, please be aware of high speed bikers who don't expect any non-bike traffic out on those trails.
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Sparco
Trad climber
Washington, DC
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Apr 14, 2008 - 10:02am PT
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I'm sure that if you park at the turnoff and hang out at the start of the dirt road with a sixpack, you will have little trouble bartering for a ride from somebody in a jeep, exterra, hummer, tank, etc... who happens to be headed that way. :)
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Apr 14, 2008 - 10:02am PT
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Although I've put the lines in in by memory, I'm fairly sure they are accurate. The green route with the red detour is the Black Velvet Canyon access route as it is currently marked with designator posts. The bad hill, which is quite visible in Google Earth if you zoom in, is indicated here with an arrow. I think that Greg's modification is the full green route without the red portion, which takes you to the Windy Canyon parking areas.
There is a parking area at the right-angle turn on the red route just before the bad hill. I think this is where the Mountain Project poster parked and hiked in from.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Apr 14, 2008 - 10:33am PT
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Yep rgold, that's precisely right.
Don't even think about that 4x4 route - even with low-range 4x4, you might not be able to make it (unless you have locking differentials).
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Apr 14, 2008 - 10:57am PT
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Drove out to Windy Peak back on 17 March, but, sounds like from Greg's info that the road might be getting worse.
We saw several rental cars out there. You'd need to be saavy driving on that type of road, though.
You might try posting on Mountain Project for a car pool on a certain date. Or, plan on hiking with the hope that someone will give you a lift.
-Brian in SLC
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BigNick
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Apr 14, 2008 - 11:18am PT
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I got stuck on the bybass road 2 weeks ago...I have a ton of experience on rough dirt roads...but the rental car just could not take it. It took 7 guys plus driver to get it out of there. Lucky for me we still got to climb that day.
After looking at the photo, i think we took the red route, and missed the turn for the green route. Can anyone vouch for the green one???
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Apr 14, 2008 - 01:41pm PT
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rgold's map looks accurate...we were there last month and took the 4x4 route and had a near disaster at the "big hill"...we were in an outback (clearance 8.5 inches)...we got on the right road for the drive out--in the dark--and had no problem
go to the desert rock gear shop and they will give you excellent beta on how to get back to bvw...the road is fairly well marked, too
i wouldn't even bother with the extra insurance
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Apr 14, 2008 - 01:48pm PT
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one more thing...get there EARLY
we were at the parking area at 7am and there were four cars ahead of us...fortunately, the others got lost on the approach so we actually beat them to the wall and were the second and third teams to start on prince of darkness/dream of wild turkeys...the three teams behind us were SLOW (and we're not very fast) and two of the teams had to bail because of darkness
the approach directions are dead on...follow the trail up from the parking area until you find a turn off to the right that drops you into the creek bed...follow the creek all the way until you hit a dead end--a dry waterfall--look about 20 feet to your left and you'll see a cairn at the top of the bank where you can do any easy class 4 scramble up
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maximus
Sport climber
Linz, Austria
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 16, 2008 - 01:14am PT
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Thanks a lot for the great advices. The problem with the extra insurance is, that itīs obviously not possible to get it just for some days. Weīve planned to be in the Red Rocks for about a week, and donīt want to pay for six weeks.
Did I understand correctly, if itīs not possible for us to get in with the car that itīs a (additonal) walk from about 2 1/2 miles? So the hole way to BWC will last maximum 2 hours?
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Apr 16, 2008 - 04:08am PT
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maximus, you can make it in a car if you follow rgold's map and you won't need the insurance if you're careful...the new route has no big hills and no big boulders in the way
rent an outback or forrester if they're available...anything with at least 8 inches of clearance will be fine
if you're staying in a hotel, you can rent a car from enterprise and save a bunch of money and probably afford an suv for the same price as a car from one of the airport companies...they do have unusual pick-up and drop-off procedures/times, but the inconvenience is well worth the money you'll save...we rented a 7 passenger suv for $450 for 8 days
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thedogfather
climber
Midwest
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Apr 16, 2008 - 06:10am PT
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I drove the bypass road marked in green on the map above in a rented 4x4 the last week in March. Had a GPS with me to mark all the turns for the return trip. At one point there was a big rock in the road and when I went around it the side of the car got scratched by cactus. The road was very rough in places and I would not recommend a non-high clearance vehicle. I bottomed out at one point. We returned from frogland after dark and the backtrack feature on the gps allowed us to navigate the maze of little side tracks with few problems.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Apr 16, 2008 - 09:49am PT
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Maximus wrote: "Did I understand correctly, if itīs not possible for us to get in with the car that itīs a (additonal) walk from about 2 1/2 miles? So the whole way to BWC will last maximum 2 hours?
If you walk the now-closed-to-vehicles original road in, that is about 2.5 miles according to measurements taken off Google Earth (which should be quite accurate). Some folks I know did walk it recently and they say they took an hour to get to the normal BVC parking area. (I think that would be a very brisk pace!) I suggest making a map for yourself from Google Earth so that you'll know what branches to take and which ones to ignore, because there are various intersections leading to nowhere useful. And remember, if you are doing the longer routes in the canyon, that there is a chance that you'll have to navigate the return trip in the dark. Having a GPS and knowing how to use the backtrack feature could make an enormous difference in when you get out in that case.
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nutjob
Stoked OW climber
San Jose, CA
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Apr 16, 2008 - 11:12am PT
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I don't know about other routes, but I recall about 2.5 hrs from leaving car at the head of canyon 6am until starting to climb Epinephrine 8:30am (we took it a bit leisurely). I'm sure others will say the approach is faster, but in any case plan to add a significant amount to your approach time. The canyon is bigger than it looks from far away.
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