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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Apr 28, 2008 - 01:18pm PT
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Werner wrote: We have to gauge everything to the Absolute standard to come to the complete conclusion.
Do you all want to go there .......?
That's the real summit and goal in the climb.
No we don't want to go there...we are struggling here enough. :)
Crack wrote: Thanks Todd Gordon for having some perspective and balance in your life. Others would do well to take notice !
Having a wife and children can do that.
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morphus
Mountain climber
Angleland
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Apr 28, 2008 - 01:21pm PT
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i'd just like to contribute to this historic thread
is this the biggest supertopo thread ever?
has LEB contributed yet? i think we should know what she thinks about this issue
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Cracko
Trad climber
Quartz Hill, California
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Apr 28, 2008 - 01:26pm PT
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"Do you all want to go there .......?"
No thanks Werner! Been trying to steer clear of those damn absolute standards my whole life !!
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yo
climber
The Eye of the Snail
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Apr 28, 2008 - 01:32pm PT
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yap
yap
yap
wankwankwank
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 28, 2008 - 01:43pm PT
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Yo wrote
"yap
yap
yap
wankwankwank"
Yeah, why do people post on the internet anyway? This would be a lot better forum if people would quit their damn typing eh?
which of your 1872 supertopo postings do you consider most worthy?
Peace
Karl
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yo
climber
The Eye of the Snail
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:04pm PT
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I'd have to say #785 was a real highpoint.
(wank)
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:16pm PT
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"As we approach the 2000th post, a lot of folks are going to be jockeying for the coveted
number 2000. However, I feel that this milestone should be reached in good style.
Posting a bunch of consecutive Bullshít Filler Posts™ is a far worse violation (rape?)
of this thread than posting something substantive that happens to land at the lucky
spot at precisely the right time, IMKSHO (In My Knott So Humble Opinion)..."
that right there is a total bullshit filler post!
=)
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:17pm PT
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I feel so darned ignorant on the subject at hand. If I'm climbing a route and come across a bolt, what do I do to identify it as a bolt that was placed from a stance, a bol that was placed while hanging on aid gear, or a bolt placed from a top rope?
Also, when I'm climbing a long runout section of a climb, what do I do to determine if the FA was a serious and talented climber who didn't notice the runout, if the FA was a cheap bastard and just didn't want to spend the money or had run out of money and was saving the next bolt for later, or if the FA was an arrogant jerk who wanted to create a death-route and only placed one or two bolts to keep anyone else from ever adding any more (since doing it free-solo would mean that there would be no proof of the FA and anyone else could bolt how they pleased)?
Maybe I should take up a different sport like football or even golf where there are less rules.
Dave
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:20pm PT
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People keep thinking guys who climb at a high level and run it out are doing it maybe on purpose to create a so called death route, stupid ass speculation.
Bachar, climbing with a hook, decided to run it out big time on the BY. I am sure I could go up there and find hook placements that, if used to drill from, would reduce the large run-outs.
I'm sure Bachar was feeling great when he put up the BY. But the fact is, he contrived the run outs. Surely not a "death" route, folks have taken the whipper without tragedy, but what we hold near and dear as a bad-ass standard is actually a contrived "test piece." I say he ran it out on purpose to create the so-called death route.
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Loomis
climber
Lat/Lon: 35.64 -117.66
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:27pm PT
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k-man: I disagree, Bachar has put up some great routes, knott™ all of them " Death routes "
Go to Czech republic, where they have had laws governing how a route is established
sice the late 30's.
Some of those make the BY look tame.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:32pm PT
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Loomis, I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with. Bachar has put up some classics (I only wish I had the shoes to climb them!), and certainly the BY is one of them. I was just countering Werner's point--sometimes folks do purposely put up dangerous routes.
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nutjob
Stoked OW climber
San Jose, CA
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:48pm PT
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Haven't carved out the discretionary time to be fully informed on this thread, but feeling left out anyways so had to add some drivel.
There must be a spectrum of reasons for long run-outs on climbs:
1) Climber in the zone, not paying attention to pro
2) Climber in desperation, doesn't dare stop for fear of falling
3) Insecure: "look at how cool I am"
4) Vindictive and righteous: "my way is the right way, try to violate my ethics on this!"
this could probably be it's own thread, but I won't start it
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:48pm PT
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K-man. I think a lot of people in this thread (and in this forum in general) talk about absolutes and that hampers having a decent discussion.
I remember when Verne Clevenger put up Hoppy's Favorite on GPA. He intentionally did not put any bolts on the first pitch (5.8) just to keep the 'riff raff' off. So, yes, there are times when people create 'articificial' runouts.
Last year Clint and I replaced the bolts on a route I put up in Tuolumne Meadows(Myopia AKA UFR on Pennyroyal Arches). It is 5.10 and has three protection bolts per pitch. The reason it is so runout is because there were very few places for us to stop and drill. In fact, my partner took a pretty big whipper trying to put in the bolt which would ultimately protect the crux and the long runout above.
I don't think you can make a blanket statement about runout routes. It would be nice to hear from Bachar about his motives on BY.
Bruce
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:56pm PT
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kman
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:57pm PT
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that
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:57pm PT
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is a
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:57pm PT
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waste of
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:58pm PT
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bandwidth!
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Apr 28, 2008 - 02:59pm PT
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BASE jumping to 2000 feet, anyone?
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SuperTopo on the Web
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