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Messages 1733 - 1752 of total 2779 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
WBraun

climber
Apr 23, 2008 - 04:42pm PT
Then why are you preaching ......
ec

climber
ca
Apr 23, 2008 - 05:23pm PT


from: Harding's "Downward Bound" I like the caption...
Blowboarder

Boulder climber
Back in the mix
Apr 23, 2008 - 05:25pm PT
" Blowboarder,

Sorry I haven't called you yet. Not trying to be rude, I've just been maxed out."



Right. I'm sure whatever you've been up to is SO important.



j/k, glad your out of the hospital.


Check your email and try not to snort out (now snort up might be fun...) your pain pills when you read the bit about the invalidity of old school ethics because they were put up by d00ds wearing spandex tights.

For shame, trad-dads.

bob d'antonio

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 23, 2008 - 05:27pm PT
You can do better than that Werner...

Tell me how there is a higher force looking over Half Dome and that he will have the final say...

Royal, you, Scott and the likes are doing the preaching..not me.

I can easily accept other styles in climbing...unlike others here.

Spencer Adkisson

Trad climber
Reno, NV
Apr 23, 2008 - 06:47pm PT
Ok, so I've read like 90% of the posts here, and I really don't see what the big deal is. I, for one, will not be able to climb any part of that route in my wildest dreams. I might like to try one day...or not. But there's like a million other routes that I will never be able to touch. So what? Someone will be able to climb it. Good for them.

People get so hung up on ethics. Let it go. I don't see this route as a "sacralidge" at all. Spray painted graffiti, yes, but a climbing route? no. I read Doug's post. I don't think they did anything wrong at all. In fact, it sounds like they worked really hard on that route, so good job guys. Way to go.

Well, I'll admit that my mind is pretty warped, but that is my perspective from where I'm sitting. I just don't think it's that big of a deal. =I



[Local Beta Edit]: You know what is a big deal though? Man, they got this burger over at the Grand Sierra Resort (Old Hilton) that is like a pound and a half of beef, or something obnoxious like that, for $7.77! And, it even comes with a big 'ol pile of french fries. I mean Jeezus man, now that's a BIG FRIGGIN' DEAL! =)
Domingo

Trad climber
El Portal, CA
Apr 23, 2008 - 07:19pm PT
"Royal, you, Scott and the likes are doing the preaching..not me.

I can easily accept other styles in climbing...unlike others here."


Atheists and agnostics preach too.

Telling us to accept, telling us why we should accept, telling us what we should accept: it's all preaching.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 23, 2008 - 07:25pm PT
the problem is rap bolting promotes more routes w/many bolts.
yosemite climbers have a "leave no trace" climbing style.

and a huge respect for all "GU" F.A's...

shipoopoi

Big Wall climber
oakland
Apr 23, 2008 - 07:31pm PT
just to weigh in my thoughts here, when i first read the article and understood that they had rap bolted the upper half of the south face, i was not really bothered by it and didn't really give it a second thought. i've done a couple of ground up routes that petered out, at least for me, and they are bolts to nowhere. i can see the temptation to avoid that syndrome on such a big face by rappeling from above, and after it has been preinspected in this manner, well, the ground up adventure is lost forever, ya might as well rap bolt it.
after reading many, but not all of the post here, i still feel they didn't really do anything wrong. i was surprised by all the backlash that sean and doug have recieved. god, protesting over rap bolting is like, so nineteen-eighties. this war was lost a long time ago in tuolume when locals(tommy herbert, ron kauk) and visitors(craig reason, dan michaels) begun rap bolting some of the most difficult routes in tuolumne. i thought it would get out of hand, with rap bolters competing against ground up people, but in reality, there was room for both styles. kauk only did two rap routes on medlicott, and there is still room up there for the future badasses to employ either style. i don't think one rap route on half dome is going to change things.
werner talks about respecting the rock in a way that makes doug and sean look like they don't respect the rock, when in fact, i have to defend these guys and say hey, i think they respected the route and made their decisions out of not wanting to do a ground up botch job. although all my first ascents in Yosemite were done ground up, ground up slab bolting is a long last art, and i really would not ask to impose that style on anybody.
coz, werner, bachar, klaus, the kid, and others, i'm sorry you consider GROWING UP to be evilution, and you might be surprised by my opinion, but i just guess it is a sign of the times that i consider rap bolting to be acceptable in yosemite, and that once it is acepted, there really is no difference between rappeling the 600' medlicott dome, and the 2000' south face of half dome. curiously enough, i relayed this issue to my wife, heather, who was in the "shame on you" category about doug and sean. now i wonder in our divided household, how did she come about to have such a strong opinion on the matter?
Steve Schneider
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Apr 23, 2008 - 08:21pm PT
Steve

Thanks for the post. Tell your wife no more Rap Dancing for Bandaloop. Only ground up art from now on!

Peace

karl
Blowboarder

Boulder climber
Back in the mix
Apr 23, 2008 - 09:42pm PT
Steve, please tell me Heather didn't think all those spr0t climbs in Thailand were ground up.


the problem is rap bolting promotes more routes w/many bolts.
yosemite climbers have a "leave no trace" climbing style.



haha, that is hilarious. Ever go aid climbing? Nothing like a bolt ladder or a string of heads to scream out "NO TRACE".

It's purely a matter of personal belief. To believe it's more than that is ridiculous.
tolman_paul

Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
Apr 23, 2008 - 09:52pm PT
"leave no trace"

Definately a funny there.

What has prevented the valley from being grid bolted isn't so much the ground up ethic, as the ban on power drills. Nothing like hand drilling 3/8" holes in hard granite to stymie all but the most truly motivated.

WBraun

climber
Apr 23, 2008 - 11:12pm PT
Steve

Evilution, hahaha

You sure have me pegged wrong.
SlipKnot

Social climber
Apr 24, 2008 - 12:15am PT
shipoopoi, looks like you are trying to have it both ways:
”i don't think one rap route on half dome is going to change things”
Ah, but when Kauk does a rap route in Yosemite, that, you assert, is a precedence showing that things are changing and should be accepted as such.
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Apr 24, 2008 - 12:50am PT
[strike]The proliferation of all the rabbits shows the lack of predators in their habitat. This shift will continue until an outside force, such as disease, curbs the current trend. The influence of predators culling back the rabbits won't happen until the humans relax the pressure applied to them.[/strike]

Oh....never mind....I thought this was the rabbit thread.
Dr. Rock

Ice climber
Castle Rock
Apr 24, 2008 - 01:05am PT
you know whats funny, this thread is going to make rap bolting anything a big reward in the forum world, so now it gets even worse!

i mean rock climbers are ego junkies, they live only for themselves...
they forgo f = ma for a shot at missed motherly love, but the big time never comes,,,
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Apr 24, 2008 - 01:26am PT
Why is a set of bolts on perfectly good rock that leads to nowhere, or rather more specifically, no particular place, always seen as a botch job? Every half pitch route that goes up to a set of anchors would be a botch job on that standard. We enjoy those just the same.

If a line can't go GU in a GU area, it's ok to not have the route go to the summit, or rather not come from the summit.

Again, it's not that rap bolting in general is bad, but it seems if there is to be 'space' enough for 'both' types, then we need to reserve that space for GU hand bolting on slabs by not setting precedents that condone a rap style.

But hey, I didn't see anyone else with motivation getting up doing routes on that face (not that I even have enough energy to hike up to Liberty Cap)

Maybe it's time to try and do another line up there in a GU effort all the way this time. It will be hard, and it will take many people's efforts. Send up a stuntman with helmut, come back down, send up the next stuntman. Loads of fun!

Best all,
M

ps- I'm just pushing to 2k posts.
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Apr 24, 2008 - 09:26am PT
I'm truly hoping that those with less skill and experience than DR and SJ, don't start to think it's open season. It doesn't seem to be the case though.

I'm also starting to think that unless a really serious trad team strikes the next blow with something ground up and high quality, we'd better just leave these guys some peace.....
and keep our pie holes shut.
Doug Robinson

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Apr 24, 2008 - 10:23am PT
Thanks, Steve, for chiming in with support. Of course I like it, because you're huge experience and seasoned viewpoint comes down on our side.

And it also helps me see that I've been a little unbalanced in my response here, rising up to defend against detractors but more silent when someone agrees with us.

So thanks for the support. Thanks to Steve and to everyone else who'se spoken up here. And to the silent majority choosing only to lurk who also agree. Thanks all! I liked this line:

...god, protesting over rap bolting is like, so nineteen-eighties. this war was lost a long time ago in tuolumne...

Decades later, and the sky hasn't fallen. No grid-jobs, even in the Valley. Plenty of blank rock left -- here, Tuolumne, on Half Dome -- to be climbed in either style.

Peace.
bob d'antonio

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Apr 24, 2008 - 11:12am PT
I gave a few examples of routes done in GU style in RMNP and 10-15 years later...much to the disdain of the critics...the sky hasn't fallen there and there has not been a rash of rapped-placed bolts ladders/routes.

Doing these types routes is just way too much work that a large percentage of climbers won't/don't do.


Nice post Steve.


BLD

climber
excramento,CA
Apr 24, 2008 - 11:48am PT
(survival wrote)
"I'm truly hoping that those with less skill and experience than DR and SJ, don't start to think it's open season. It doesn't seem to be the case though.

I'm also starting to think that unless a really serious trad team strikes the next blow with something ground up and high quality, we'd better just leave these guys some peace.....
and keep our pie holes shut."



I also, don't think we are going to see a bunch of sprout routes pop up everywhere because of GU. As I'm sure you all know how much time and effort it takes to put up even a small route and not botch the roots out of it. I think most climbers are repeaters rather than installers. The hay-day is over for the masses. Highly motivated climbers may run out and put up a new route here and there but they have to find it first. Especially if the route is going to be close enough to ding your car door on. There is plenty of rock 1 or so miles from the road that route farmers could plow. But they won't.


As far as a (TRAD) FA team striking the next blows. I have a sneaking suspicion that S.J. may be ready to strike. Be ready to soak up some venom and ready your pie hole.

hahahahaha
Blair.



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