LEB
climber
Glen Gardner
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 18, 2008 - 09:52am PT
|
How do people feel about this issue? On the one hand it is unfair to hold Obama responsible for the racist and hateful rhetoric of his pastor. The Senator did not ever preach or advocate this philosophy.
On the other hand, it is hard to imagine participating in a church for 21 years where the minister spews for this kind of rhetoric. Would any of us here stay in a church where the minister preached white supremacist ideology or hateful speech directed at an ethnic group of people. I know I would not. It makes me uncomfortable just to hear racist jokes let alone staying in a church where such philosophy was preached from the pulpit.
Obama's church gave a lifetime achievement award to Lewis Farakand. I have heard a great many ministers preach in my day and I would say that none can top the Rev Jeramiah Wright delivered sheer unadulterated hate. His sermons are the most hateful rhetoric I have ever witnessed under the pretext of religion. For those who have not heard his sermons nor read a transcript of them, it is hard to come up with words to describe what he delivered from the pulpit.
Does this affiliation speak to Senator Obama's judgment? Does it speak to Senator Obama's value system? It is hard to imagine listening to this vile stuff for 21 years and then calling the man your spiritual mentor. I would think that a man who strives to be president of "all the people" would be too repulsed by such a hate mongering to tolerate it for two decades. You would have to think that in all that time, he might have sought out a different church.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2008 - 10:07am PT
|
Yeah, well, the Repubs have their America-hating preachers too. Wake up Lois:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=559622
But you never hear about it and in fact, they are considered mainstream Republicans and hold leadership positions.
Hypocrites.
Those are Huckabee's kind of people, btw.
|
|
mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2008 - 10:11am PT
|
Turn off your radio and television, Lois, and use that big ol' brain of yours to do some good--as in Nurse Practitioning.
|
|
bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2008 - 10:13am PT
|
That darn "Lewis Karakand"...
|
|
Dingus Milktoast
climber
NorCal
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2008 - 10:22am PT
|
I couldn't care less. I will vote for Obama should he win the primary. I haven't even bothered reading the good reverand's offensive comments, nor will I.
Good day!
DMT
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2008 - 10:22am PT
|
I think it shows how disconnected mainstream white culture is from mainstream black culture. It was not a "shock" to me to hear him say what he did, though I did cringe. I don't think most people really have any idea the level of frustration and how ostracized many black people in the US feel. As usual though, the story is "look at this hatemonger" instead of perhaps studying why his message is resonating with a mainstream black audience.
In any case, I think Obama has handled it in a very mature manner which says good things about his ability to handle controversy as President. People should not be personally blamed for the words of others unless there is reason to believe that those people are acting on their behalf.
|
|
WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2008 - 10:24am PT
|
Obama is in trouble Lois. That's why he's making a serious effort to dig himself out of the hole the good preacher put him in. Polls are showing a significant drop in his popularity due to the statements attributed to the minister.
His main problem is trying to justify why he continued at the church for all those years with such a hate filled and rabidly anti-American nut running the place.
I personally don't care how it turns out for him because all the candidates running stink as far as I'm concerned. I'm just watching the three ring circus.
|
|
Indianclimber
climber
Las Vegas
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2008 - 10:33am PT
|
According to Rasmussen, Obama's favorable rating has dipped to 47 percent since Thursday, a drop of five points. At the same time, his unfavorable rating has jumped from 44 percent to 50 percent among all voters. Among white voters, that number goes up to 54 percent.
|
|
Dingus Milktoast
climber
NorCal
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2008 - 10:34am PT
|
Any port in a storm for a Swift Boat!
DMT
|
|
mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2008 - 10:35am PT
|
(Google Image)
|
|
Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2008 - 10:36am PT
|
I'd have serious doubts about any candidate that belonged to an all white 8600 member church.Serious doubts.
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2008 - 10:48am PT
|
"I'd have serious doubts about any candidate that belonged to an all white 8600 member church.Serious doubts."
|
|
fattrad
Mountain climber
GOP Convention
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2008 - 10:58am PT
|
mojede,
The difference is McCain meets with them, hears their views and them disagrees with them. If they still want to endorse after he doesn't follow their views, it's theri choice. He doesn't go to their churches weekly for radical brainwashing. Nice try though.
Jody's evil twin
McCain 2008 Bay Area Co-Chair.
|
|
LEB
climber
Glen Gardner
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2008 - 10:59am PT
|
Well,
I think it is a serious blow to Obama and could well cost him the general election. There is no question as to the damage it has done and it is big time damage. The only question is whether it is fair.
On the one hand, it seems unfair to hold one person accountable for the hateful rhetoric of another. Obama has never said anything hateful
On the other hand he openly affiliated with the organization (for 21 years) which generated that speech. He supported the church with his contributions. If I supported a white supremacist organization like the KKK via paying organizational contributions and/or attended their functions, what difference would it make whether I actually said the same words. I am supporting another to say them so on some level I must endorse it. There are no lack of alternative churches he could have joined nor is their any evidence that he ever encouraged the Reverend to tone down the rhetoric i.e. he was not a dissenter.
I believe this one will be very costly to him.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2008 - 11:00am PT
|
Pure Bullshit Fatty.
Straight-Talkin' McCain sucked Hagee's dick to get his support, then dumped him when he got some heat for it.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2008 - 11:01am PT
|
So Lois,
When are the Republicans going to dump their haters?
Why aren't you in a tizzy over that?
Democrats are expected to marginalize their hate-fringe. Fair enough, I agree with that. Republicans, OTOH, give their haters leadership position and kiss their asses.
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2008 - 11:03am PT
|
Radical brainwashing. God Fatty really.
|
|
Shingle
climber
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2008 - 11:03am PT
|
Is that a Gut feel (like the very bad feeling you had about McCain) belief, or did hubby tell you to believe this? Just trying to stay with your process here . . .
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
|
Mar 18, 2008 - 11:11am PT
|
"I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community," Obama said. "I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother - a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.
"These people are a part of me. And they are a part of America, this country that I love."
-Obama today
Seriously, how human is this guy. How much more authentic do you need to be. The amount of sh#t I've had to bite my tongue about in front of my extended family, or things I've just had to let go because it wasn't worth "getting into it" with my family whom I love.
|
|
LEB
climber
Glen Gardner
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2008 - 11:19am PT
|
dirtbag,
There are "bad guys" on both sides of the aisle. It is just that the Republicans are much better at playing hardball. They have the better "generals," if you will. It matters not how "worthy" or "noble" is your cause if you don't have generals who can win the war. The winners get to write the history books.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!