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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Idaho
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Meltdown, indeed....T'would be A1 for me or thee....(maybe A2?)y'know, regular fat,lazy, old folks. Good job, Beth. YOU GO, girl...
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Killer.
How many other 14c+ trad climbs are there?
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Knott many.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Try none.
This should be *the* hardest trad climb to date? Cobra Crack was the hardest at .14b...
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davidji
Social climber
CA
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Nice!!
She was one of the first people I watched gym climbing with their foot in a cast, and of course she was redpointing harder with one foot than I do with both. I've been gym climbing with 1 foot for several weeks, and pretty much every time I go to the gym, I remember watching her climb.
A2 CoS? Bet I could make it go at C2.
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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That woman has skills.... intense.
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Lando
climber
Tulsa
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kudos to beth, that's rad!
cobra crack, as stated by sonnie, is anywhere from 14- to impossible depending on your finger size.
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10b4me
climber
hanging by a thread
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awesome
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BKW
Mountain climber
Central Texas
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Way to go Beth!
Link to more info from Alpinist 23
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Hopefully someone videotaped this?
I would love to see this groundbreaking ascent!
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adventurewagen
Trad climber
Seattle
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You guys are funny. Arguing about 14 a vs b vs c...
It's 5.14... 4 teen!!! How many of you send your 13 or 12 or even 11! projects! Damn that's impressive. Nice work.
And if I've read right Cobra crack still has no rating, maybe 14b/c and Beth's climb also say's "no rating" but "others" say 14c.
I'd say when Sonnie does Meltdown and Beth does cobra crack and maybe Didier does the both of them they can all determine the minutia of the exact rating together over some beer :)
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Lando
climber
Tulsa
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that would be cool, what kind of beer would they drink?...maybe we could tape it and put it on youtube! rad dude! feel the stoke!
Props to ANYONE sending projects at their limit.
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Sheets
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Goddamn, I admire people who climb hard trad.
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AllezAllez510
Trad climber
PDX, OR
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Anyone know where in the park this former aid climb might be located?
Nevermind, just read it's near Cascade Falls.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2008 - 01:22am PT
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thanks for posting that alpinist link. Pretty crazy, duct taping cams to your harness so you can pull them off quicker!! Really looking forward to the photos of the climb.
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Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
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I seem to recall Didier using a velcro system for Cobra Crack.
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sunjule
climber
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Any pictures of it anywhere? Tried to google it, but nothing came out :(
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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In the Alpinist article it says"Rodden found it last year and projected the route for four months this winter."
What does "projected" mean?
 justgettin'old jb
Edit: I couldn't find the term in my Webster's Trad Dictionary...
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Popeye!!
Trad climber
Montague, MA
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So Rhapsody, Dave McLeod's E11 7a is F8c+ which is said to be a YDS 14c+ trad route, the hardest to date.
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bachar
Gym climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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More like five. four Mike!
cheers, jb
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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My old Yates harness had velcro strips, which I imagined were for just that sort of gear thing. I used them once or twice on some desperate 5.10s...
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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JB, you know how you project your voice, like when you give a speech, so those in the back of the audience can hear you? Well, Beth projected herself, to the top of some north facing seam in a grotto.
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socalbolter
Sport climber
Silverado, CA
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OK, so I'm somewhat on board with John and Mike on this one.
Meaning no disrespect or belittlement to Beth and her success at all, here's my thoughts:
I've redpointed some pretty difficult climbs over the years and on every one of them success came through repetition and taking the time to figure out the best possible sequences and ways to use the holds. These successes did not come from being an amazing climber. I firmly believe (from personal experience) that any fit and determined climber could succeed on a given route if they were to put in the time required to decipher the climb. Now this might require a few tries or a few years, but if the climber sticks with it - sooner or later the climb will give up and the climber will succeed.
I think Beth's FA should be recognized as a symbol of her determination and skills as a climber and the celebration of an amazing piece of rock. Kudos to her on her successful ascent.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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In the Alpinist article, it says that Corey Rich photographed her on the route. And also that there's a waterfall in the background. That ought to make for some wonderful photos.
YeaY, Beth!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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good for Beth! congrats on sending the project...
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Tahoe climber
Trad climber
a dark-green forester out west
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Hearty congratulations to Beth - that sounds like an amazing climb, at the very top of her skillset, and she sent it.
Projecting, to me, means to try it over and over until it goes.
Way inspiring to me - she's an elite athlete, for sure, but she just broke some barriers with that one! A woman climbing 14c crack? That's f#cking rad, and inspiring. Reminds me of another diminuitive-statured lady that climbed a big trad route first.
Thanks for keeping me stoked, Beth!
Aaron
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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know how you project your voice
No, they meant she took a high quality slide photo of the route and projected it on her wall so she could study the moves.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Marty - The Alpinist link mentioned earlier in the thread gives some detail about location.
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bachar
Gym climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Ah...pro-jected instead of project-ed. Got it. It's all clear to me now...
I'm just messin' 'round. I do find there's a bit of confusion with the use of the term "trad climbing" in reference to some of these "trad" ascents as reported in the climbing media. To me at least.
When someone top ropes a climb 50 times and leads it on "traditional" gear I think that's great and it is what it is - a rehearsed lead. If I did a route that way, I could never say I did a "trad" ascent however.
If I worked on it ground up for a long time, falling and lowering to the start every time, and I finally got the climb, then I might say I did a "trad" ascent. But that's just a product of my "trad" background and upbringing.
Nevertheless, I don't want to take anything away from Beth or others who choose this style. The routes they are doing are damn hard and point to new directions and possibilities for those climbs in the future - someday people will walk up to the base of those climbs and onsight flash them. Now that's trad.
Congrats, Beth. I can't wait to go check that crack out - standing on the ground of course!
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Kartch
climber
belgrade, mt
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Nice job Beth, and thanks for the encouragement years ago in the Davis climbing gym.
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leinosaur
Trad climber
burns flat, ok
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"Trad" or no, climbing that grade on gear - - wow.
go, Beth! Fight, fight!
As for "any climber with enough drive & time" ?
I'm not thinking so much . . . maybe any young one, with just the right genes -
but DAMN!
I mean, I'll be psyched to redpoint my first 11 . . . but sending 14+ on gear is just badder-asser than that, and I don't mind saying so.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Great post, jb.
I recently heard of someone who "headppointed" the BY. I mean, my hat's off to them for sending the route, but after multiple TRs, I think it kind of misses the point of what THAT route is all about. Still, I'd take it any way I could get it.
As for Beth, Hearty Way To Go. It doesn't matter to me if she's a pro or not. It's an amazing athletic accomplishment.
BTW, what is the hardest "trad" onsight?
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Broken
climber
Texas
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I'm not sure what to make of calling rehearsed routes "trad."
I realize that traditional = ground-up... But it seems that the term has evolved to refer more to the protection than the style of ascent. i.e. the "hard trad" scene in Britain that often consists of headpointing. Though I suppose a lot of the Brits are very specific about not referring to headpointing as traditional.
Maybe we're just too stuck in binaries. Sport or Trad. One or the other. Bah.
Speaking of... For those who didn't see E11 or Committed, Macleod's route is pretty amazing, whatever you want to call it.
A clip of him taking the fall:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GOW2iwgPdI&feature=related
The trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOHwUUoOLYM&feature=related
Anyway... hats off to Rodden, for sure.
EDIT:
Just read the previous post. I think it is kinda lame to repeat a route in a style inferior to that of the first ascent. Like when whoever it was repeated Hersey's To RP Or Not To Be - which was unrepeated at the time - and they headpointed it (Hersey rappelled down it but didn't rehearse it).
Personally, I wouldn't touch a route like the BY unless I was doing it ground-up.
And I, too, am curious what the world's hardest trad onsight is...
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Not sure what the hardest trad onsite is, though that is an interesting question. I'd bet something in Britain. Seems to me Johnny Dawes did something in the E6 6b (5.13) range some years ago.
And I would disagree strongly about the statement that given enough attempts, anyone can get up anything. That may hold true up to 5.13, but these hard 5.14's are very hard. Not everyone genetically has the power and grip strength to do some of the moves. Similarly, not everyone can run a sub 10 second 100m dash or a sub 4 minute mile.
I agree on B-Y. The whole point of that is to lead it ground up. But this is a whole different story from a technical and strength difficulty standpoint, and the two aren't really comparable in my mind.
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socalbolter
Sport climber
Silverado, CA
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So folks are disagreeing with my comments above.
As I said there, I am IN NO WAY trying to take anything away from Beth's redpoint. It's an amazing accomplishment made by a climber who by all accounts is an incredible person and climber.
Now, perhaps I was too general in my original statement. Of course a 5.8 climber is not going to realistically siege a 14+ and succeed. But,(regarding this route) I do feel that someone with the requisite finger size who is already climbing hard (12+ and above ?) cracks would likely succeed on this if they put in the time to learn and master the moves.
Again, not to belittle the success at all, but in my own climbing I have redpointed routes that were 5-6 grades harder than my hardest onsite level at that time by putting in the time on the route and not giving up until I succeeded. I have also walked away from routes that I didn't feel were worth the amount of time it would have taken to succeed on. I think that most folks that have gone through the "redpoint process" would agree with the general concept.
Again, first and foremost - congrats to Beth on an amazing ascent!
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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you know folks, the world is a little different now. Used to be the distinctions between on-sight, rehearsed, lowering after falls and that sort of thing were really important because this defined the whole range of possibilities. Those distinctions are still meaningful, but in a world where lots of routes are clipping bolts or clipping pre-placed quickdraws, defining trad="groundup, placing protection on lead" is not too big a deal (and no one writing to this thread is making too big a deal out of it).
Peter Croft has climbed a bunch of things in the middle 5.13s on-sight over the years. JB - you probably have too.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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"I think it is kinda lame to repeat a route in a style inferior to that of the first ascent...Personally, I wouldn't touch a route like the BY unless I was doing it ground-up."
Do you guys ever feel like you're climbing through a minefeild of stylistic constraints where any false move will blast you into the realm of lame climbs and lame climbers. Doesn't it just become impossible to leave the ground without upping your lameness?
Trad means whatever you want it to mean. There were traditions before ground up free climbing ruled the day that are now considered an inferior style. Sport climbing was firmly a tradition when Beth started to climb. Besides, I doubt she penned the press release herself.
I think it's motivating for the sisterhood 'n stuff that the hardest grade in Yosemite that I'm aware of (climbed in any style) just got ticked by a woman.
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martygarrison
Trad climber
atlanta
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the lady on-sited phoenix. that is pretty dang good in my book. I don't go much for these rehearsed climbs, but damm she is pushing some standards here. good for her.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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"I think it's motivating for the sisterhood 'n stuff that the hardest grade in Yosemite that I'm aware of (climbed in any style) just got ticked by a woman."
Yeah-- it's becoming a tradition.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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"I agree on B-Y. The whole point of that is to lead it ground up. But this is a whole different story from a technical and strength difficulty standpoint, and the two aren't really comparable in my mind."
I'd agree. On top of skill and strength, what separates them is balls, really. The BY takes huge cajones. projecting, redpointing things like phoenix, meltdown, etc. just don't. Different games, really.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2008 - 01:04pm PT
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Good post Melissa.
There are lots of different games to play within climbing. This is a top achievement in one of those games.
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bachar
Gym climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Free climbing is style. Difficulty is relative to style. There always will be distinctions between styles - it's all part of this little game called free climbing. Not a big deal, it's just interesting to know.
Doing a 5.14c on top rope is impressive! Onsight flashing a 5.14c is even more impressive. Onsight free soloing it barefooted is...
I too am interested in finding out the hardest trad leads and the hardest trad onsight flashes. It just seems kind of hard to find that kind of info these days. Are people afraid of syle?
Edit: Oh yeah reagardless of style I think Beth's ascent is most impressive.
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Mick Ryan
Trad climber
Kendal, English Lake District
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and,
A little history (for Americans)…
In the beginning, rock-climbing was a development of Alpinism so naturally the accepted style of climbing was ground-up. In the UK, cliffs are small, so the occasional crafty top-rope or abseil inspection is quite easy to rig up and was used on the quiet from quite early on. The fractured nature of the rock meant that most routes had some natural protection and so an anti-piton and then anti-bolt ethic arose to maintain the challenge. By the 1970s the supply of new routes was perceived as drying up and more obscure crags were developed. Frequently these had to be scraped out of the hillside (eg Goat Crag in Borrowdale). In case north American readers are not aware, it rains quite often in the UK and cliff vegetation is frequently prolific, so this required heroic gardening with crowbars and yard brushes. Not something that can be done ground-up. Additionally, the growth of sea-cliff climbing inverted usual practice: you start at the top and frequently abseil down your route to start. The effect of this was that abseil cleaning and inspection became widespread, which lead fairly rapidly to checking holds and the sneaky practicing of sections on the ab. rope. By the early 80s this kind of ‘cheating’ was widespread but frequently unacknowledged, a bit like the practice of ‘yo-yo’ ground-up ascents that were also popular at the time.
Sport climbing came along and changed the rules, ‘Cheating’ was out in the open and became codified. A certain amount practicing and pre-inspection was usual in the local traditional form, so the difference between “trad” climbing and sport climbing was perceived as being bolts. Trad = no bolts; sport = bolts. Battles raged between the bolters and non-bolters in the mid-80s but eventually everyone agreed to get along (mostly).
Head-pointing must be trad. as it doesn’t involve bolts.
A little history (for Brits)…
In the beginning, rock-climbing was a development of Alpinism so naturally the accepted style of climbing was ground-up. In the USA, cliffs are big, so top-rope or abseil inspection is usually damn hard to arrange and people generally didn’t bother. The un-fractured nature of the granite meant that many routes had no natural protection and so the use of bolts was permitted, if placed ground-up to maintain the challenge. In case our UK readers are not aware, those American cliffs are clean, blank and smooth and climbing without bolts is inconceivable. No-one has climbed El Cap without bolts (now there’s a challenge for some ethical Brit…) and no-one thought The Nose was anything less than an awesome achievement despite Warren Harding drilling over a 100 holes on the first ascent. By the 1970s ground-up climbing reached it’s zenith with fearsome routes climbed replete with epic tales of drilling from tiny stances. As standards rose, the routes got steeper and drilling ground-up got harder and harder. Ethics got stretched to permit drilling from hooks or other forms of aid, so long as it was ground-up. By the early 80s this kind of ‘cheating’ was widespread.
Sport climbing came along and changed the rules, ‘Cheating’ was out in the open and became codified. A certain amount of bolting was usual in the local traditional form, so the difference between “trad” climbing and sport climbing was perceived as being one of style. Trad = ground-up; sport = top-down preparation. Battles raged between the rap-bolters and ground-uppers in the mid-80s but eventually everyone agreed to get along (mostly).
Head-pointing can’t be trad. as it involves prior practice.
© duncan
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nutjob
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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I understand the objective of trying to more clearly articulate the labels/meanings for different styles... but this point should be secondary and in no way interfere with clearly giving respect where respect is due for an outstanding achievement.
Giving an unqualified "yes, that is amazing that she climbed a 5.14n crack while placing gear" doesn't take anything away from the ground-up style in which you have done crazy shite before. Nobody ever became smaller for acknowledging greatness in others and allowing it to shine.
Saying "yes that was amazing but it wasn't trad style" seems like wrestling with a ghost of what your own achievements mean... it's more like a gentle rebuke and comparison against a 'higher' standard that you hold onto to feel more secure, rather than simple acclaim or acknowledgement of another's achievement.
Now feel free to judge me for judging someone else's judgements!
It's empty and meaningless, and it's empty and meaningless that it's empty and meaningless.
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10b4me
climber
hanging by a thread
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is this over by Knob Hill?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Mick, the buzzer goes off here (yeah, I see you didn't write this):
Head-pointing must be trad. as it doesn’t involve bolts.
I can think of a few trad routes that have bolts... For example Nexus out at the Pinnacles. Put up ground up, on sight, in stance. In other words, climbing from the bottom to the top, without weighting gear. About as traditional as you can get.
Unless you want to say that using bolts for pro negates a "tradtional" ascent. In that case, using anything metal (such as pitons), or rope for that matter, would be just as questionable.
"Trad" and Sport" are terms that have become overloaded in that they have several meanings, depending on the situation. But one thing we should agree on. Traditional climbing means starting at the bottom and going to the top, without weighting pro. That, I put forth, is the traditional mindset.
So is it possible to approach "sport climbs" with a traditional mindset? I often try to...
PS. Headpointing can't be trad because it involves starting at the top.
PSS. I think it's just left of Anti-Ego Crack
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Hardest onsight? Micheal Reardon on Romantic Warrior. No one will pull that off for years.
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Brian Kimball
Sport climber
Westminster, CO.
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I have to strongly disagree with SOCIALBOLTER when he says that "anyone with small fingers who is climbing 5.12+ could redpoint this new testpiece with enough effort and years of attempts". This is far from the truth. Climbers like Tommy and Beth are literally 1 in a million and there is an insurmountable difference in difficulty between 5.12+ and 5.14c! For that matter there is a MASSIVE LEAP in technical difficulty between 5.14a and 5.14c! Once you start getting into the 5.13+ and harder range the difference between each letter grade and the progression between them is much more so then with the 5.11 and 5.12 grade. Reason being: your pushing closer and closer to the improbable and impossible, the defining line between being "in there" and "out of there" becomes smaller and smaller. With a barley overhanging 5.14c crack routes like this, my guess is that you do not just project it for a few years and then suddenly it becomes easy and you just "hike it". NO, NO, NO, this kind of climb is a FULL ON, FULL THROTTLE, THRASH FEST 5,000!
Just because you climb 5.12+ and decide to quit your job dedicating the next 4 years to trying to free a route like this DOES NOT mean your guarantied the send, trust me I know. I have been trying to move up to the next letter grade from .A to .B for over 8 years with no success.
INSPIRING and MOTIVATING SEND!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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I think that we can all get in touch with the stoke that comes from working on something really hard for a long time, trying and trying and finally succeeding. For me it is in the realm of what I do at work, managing, physics, whathaveyou, and going out and getting into that next grade, which happens to be in the 5.10's these days.
While I will never work 5.14, I can certainly relate with the hard work and determination to achieve success. That is a joy that we should all keep as a goal as we play this vertical game; man or woman, 5.8 or 5.15, NIAD or NI5Ds...
Here's to the primordial joy of climbing,
Berg Heil!
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thesiger
Trad climber
A desert kingdom
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k-man,
You're missing the point ... re-read duncan's thing Mick posted again.
"Trad" is like "football". You 'mericans have a game you call football; the Brits (and the rest of the world) play something else they call football. Both non-american definitions of these games are now in the ascendancy. Get used to it.
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socalbolter
Sport climber
Silverado, CA
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So now I've got Brian upset as well.
I'll try one more time and then I'll just drop it.
You are correct, that climbers like Tommy and Beth are few and far between. Again I am not trying to belittle Beth's skills or FA redpoint at all. It's an amazing thing that she has done.
Would you feel better if I said someone with the proper finger size and low-end 5.13 crack skills could succeed on the route if they put the time in?
Now it sounds as though footwork, core (to resist the barndoor) and some other skills come into play as well. So, depending on what a given climber brought to the route skillwise it would take more or less time to succeed, but I still think they would if they committed to the route and put in the time.
You suggest that you've spent 8 years trying to gain a single letter grade and personally I find that difficult to believe. I get the feel from your post that you are climbing and attempting harder climbs and if that's the case I would challenge you to pick a route of your target grade and commit to regular and consistent time on the line. Maybe the redpoint is not worth the time for you, but if it really is only a letter grade harder than your hardest redpoint - YOU WILL SUCCEED ON IT given time.
I'm not just some NOOB spouting off here. I've been climbing for better than 30 years and have a long list of hard redpoints under my belt. On all of the hardest sends, there were many moves on each of them that seemed down right impossible the first times that I tried the routes. Over time and with regular climbing on the routes little subtle things started to "click" that made all the difference. Were those climbs easy when I finally redpointed them? Hell no, but having done the individual moves countless times prior I had a solid belief that they were possible for me and as I began to link longer pieces of the route together I was able to gain confidence on larger pieces of the bigger puzzle. Those redpoints always became a matter of desire and perseverance.
Again this opinion is not intended to downplay Beth's (or anyone else's) sends. Instead, I think it's the process that all high-end redpointers go through prior to succeeding on their hardest challenges. Hell, look at the time and progression of climbers like Sharma on his hardest routes. We're talking multiple seasons and their spoken descriptions of making tiny progressive steps over months of time before finally putting it all together. This is what hard redpoint climbing is all about.
Like everyone else here, I look forward to seeing photos of the route. It sounds like they will be impressive - Beth's redpoint certainly is!
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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louie, your forgetting web-spray abilities. Those rank pretty high i would think, or at least it has for me.
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Blight
Social climber
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"I too am interested in finding out the hardest trad leads and the hardest trad onsight flashes."
The british climber Dave Birkett onsighted a route called Fear of Failure at Dove Crag in England's Lake District.
It's graded E8 6c. It's been said that the technical grade would be french 7c+ which is about 5.13a or b I think. The route is also notably bold and dangerous hence the E8 grade.
As far as I know nobody's ever onsighted a british E9 route so Dave's effort may be the hardest onsight over here at least.
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Scout 2
Trad climber
Placerville
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Cheers Beth ! keep sending them!
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handsome B
Gym climber
SL,UT
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socalbolter, are you Louie Anderson from South Cali in real life?
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socalbolter
Sport climber
Silverado, CA
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Yes, that's me.
On a side note, I ran into someone up in Shuteye last season who was talking about a hard, unclimbed crack line up by (or on) Elephant Rock in the Valley. Anyone here know anything about that one? Who's working on it? Climbed yet?
As I said before, I have no doubt that there are several hard seam and crack lines yet to be found in the Valley. There's just too much rock and too many hidden faces and gullies for it not to be so.
I'm glad to see folks like Beth are still focusing on harder "trad" lines. While I'm a full-fledged sport climber these days, I'm always happy to see the free climbing achievements of Mike Anderson, Sean Jones, Sonnie Trotter and others. The recent long route in the backcountry of Yosemite (Growing Up) will hopefully open the eyes of folks as to how much potential there really still is back there. I imagine the rest of the lines on that face will be more difficult, but I have no doubt that Beth, Tommy, or any of the other strong Valley cracksters would be able to ferret out some great lines on that wall. Looking forward to seeing what happens in the next few years.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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OK, I re-read Mick's post. I see, football vs. football. The difference is the view from two sides of the pond.
I still stay Headpointing can't be trad because it starts at the top.
I can see 'easy' 5.13, perhaps work a crux or two. .13+, another universe. All I can do is wonder wtf 5.14 is all about. No matter how much I trained, I'd never be able to touch it, I know.
Some folks have talent. They apply hard work and do the impossible. It may be that years will pass before this monster gets a 2nd.
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handsome B
Gym climber
SL,UT
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So after lying about your own 5.14 ascents and manufacturing routes at Shuteye Ridge after you couldn't climb them you want to rain on Beth's parade?
If the redpoint was certain, why would anyone climb?
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socalbolter
Sport climber
Silverado, CA
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I've never lied about an ascent - period!
Manufacturing routes? Yes, I enhanced a couple of individual holds in 1000's of feet of new climbing I did there. I regret that now (as said and posted elsewhere) and don't plan to repeat that practice in the future.
Neither of those have anything to do with this topic.
As for the redpoint being certain - it's not. But if a climber has the requisite skills and puts the required time in - it certainly is a much more attainable goal. As for your question of why climb at all. If you've gone through the redpoint process on a route that really pushes your limit, you know first hand how much you learn and how much better your climbing becomes through the process. By pitting ourselves against a hard route, we force ourselves into an improve to succeed scenario. This challenge is the reason (I believe) that we climb - at least on hard routes. When it comes to new routes like Beth's this is compounded by the potential to succeed on something at a new standard for the area (and much of the world). This raises the stakes even higher and the personal reward for success (and the desire to pursue that goal) is even greater.
As for raining on Beth's parade, you couldn't be further from the truth. I've done everything I could in every post in this thread to give her the kudos she deserves for this. My comments were in response to Bachar's comments about "projecting" a route versus the old school "trad" definition of working everything from the ground up. The gist of my comments are that what Beth did on this route is what makes up the whole "redpoint" process and is the way that most high-end redpoints are achieved these days. The process allows talented and strong climbers to succeed on routes much harder than what they would normally be able to do in a handful of tries or in the same time frame when working the route ground-up.
Once again, I will say congrats to Beth. This is a wonderful accomplishment and a huge feather in her cap. She and Tommy (as a team and individually) remain at the forefront of high-end Valley free climbing and I doubt this will be the last we hear from them in that venue.
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Too Cool !!
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socalbolter
Sport climber
Silverado, CA
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I was just going to post the picture, but got beaten to it.
Great looking line. Am always impressed by lines that are THE line when looking at a face or formation. Doesn't seem like this will ever have any neighboring routes. Makes this one all the more aesthetic.
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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Wow. In one of those articles referenced is says that kauk worked on this line and in the update at the la sportiva site it says "others" who have worked the line grade it 14c ish.
Anybody know what Mr. Ron has to say about this route? Any other inside history from the ST ranks about those "others" who worked it?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Speaking of Tommy, is that him belaying in the picture?
Or rather, what is that belaying in the picture?
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TRNovice
Trad climber
UK
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Great photo and unbelievable line - congratulations to Beth from the UK.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Mar 11, 2008 - 12:55am PT
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http://bigupblog.com/
More of the stories and stills from the upcoming Dosage V.
(just copying Louie's post on rockclimbing.com)
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J. Werlin
climber
Cedaredge
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Mar 11, 2008 - 10:59am PT
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Finally a picture! Yowza, looks harder than even Sherrie's Crack.
Headpoints/redpoints/projecting yadda yadda yadda. . . .
What matters most is the SHOES you are wearing (and to a lesser extent your clothes).
So go get some Acopas and climb like JB.
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Jobee
Social climber
El Portal
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Mar 11, 2008 - 11:41am PT
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This is just so cool!
Congratulations to Beth for all her hard work and perseverance.
That girl can really, really, Climb.
Awesome!
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Mar 11, 2008 - 01:57pm PT
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I love how cute and demure she always looks.
Rockclimbing is so cool because of this. To be able to be at the pinnacle of the sport, and not have to be some juiced out, 7 foot tall, aggressive hardman.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Mar 15, 2008 - 06:10pm PT
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Rehearsed or not, madprops to her for placing her gear at all. People don't even place their own DRAWS on "redpoints" anymore. Kauk certainly had no problem preplacing gear on his recent 5.14 cracks and people were quick to call the grade "too hard" to place gear at.
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Double D
climber
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Mar 15, 2008 - 07:49pm PT
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RIGHT ON BETH! Impressive indeed. I can't even dream in the 5.14 realm.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jul 15, 2012 - 03:24am PT
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Hmm
really cool thread.
What she did was hard and very well earned
What BACHAR said was honest and has just basic commen sense going for it.
Trad lead?
I guess so..
but hell with so much rehersal .. how much trad is needed,,,
14c.. f*#king impressive period on toprope
calling it a trad climb and PRing the hell out of it...
Understandable if trying to make a living I guess.. but .. a bit of a stretch..
in the end it's climbing .. too bad it needs money to continue...
climbing is cool and this was waaaay cool... except for trying to equate it with TRAD
I have no idea what to call it...
hell she didnt bolt it KUDOS!!.. and she did take it a BIG level up and lead it instead of TR...
So I guess call it heavily rehearsed 5.14c lead of a thin crack in Yosemite.
same sh#t I guess
BEER makes me deliberate on stupid Minutia.. perhaps I should have posted this on the friday drinking thread
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jul 15, 2012 - 09:19am PT
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Luckily the only 10 people that care that its called a Traditional ascent are on this website, and have no friends.
It's called climbing... it all is.
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10b4me
Ice climber
dingy room at the Happy boulders hotel
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Jul 15, 2012 - 12:35pm PT
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Is Beth still climbing?
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jul 15, 2012 - 04:37pm PT
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No doubt about it: A red point is still a red point whether or not it's heavily rehearsed first. It's still either a red point or you hung on a piece. Someone else can always come along and do the first on-sight flash. That's a quantum leap in difficult and a great improvement in style. But a red point is still a red point is still a red point.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Repeated on 2018-11-7, after a multiyear effort by Carlo Traversi.
Meltdown. What a ride.
First tried this beautiful line in 2013 and got completely shut down. Couldn’t figure out how to stand on the absolutely miserable footholds.
The next year I tried again and solved the crux, a desperate lie back section on gently overhanging granite while smearing on glass. I thought everything would come together quickly after that but I was wrong. It’s one thing to climb through a difficult section, it’s another to be relaxed enough while you’re doing it to not burn yourself out for the rest of the route.
I top roped it clean at the end of 2015, got desperately close on lead, and then proceeded to go to war with the weather through 2016 and 2017.
This season it all came together. A dry Fall and this week the colder temps are just sweeping into the Valley. Yesterday I was able to climb it on my 3rd try of the day after a couple weird slips after the crux on the first two tries. All gear was placed on lead, after the first piece was placed I climbed back down to the ground to re-chalk and re-compose. The climbing went smoothly including the placement of the final #4 @blackdiamond Stopper which is always a tricky one to get in.
A massive thanks to @marymeck for all the days supporting me in the Valley through some of the coldest times. And my brother @gtraversi for standing in knee deep ice water in underwear in freezing temps to belay when the pool at the base of the route filled up.
Last but not least a huge thanks to @bethrodden for the vision, tenacity, and incredible climbing ability that brought this route to life over 10 years ago. The First Ascent of this route is a benchmark in the history of climbing and is one of the most impressive achievements I can think of in the last few decades. Respect.
Photo by @bearcam. @blackdiamond @blackdiamond_climb @fiveten_official @frictionlabs @theboulderfield https://www.instagram.com/p/Bp7OSBhA2Dw/
https://rockandice.com/climbing-news/carlo-traversi-repeats-meltdown-5-14c-hardest-crack-in-yosemite-and-the-world/
This was already reported on the other thread
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/65106/Limits-to-Free-Climbing-in-Yosemite
but I thought this was a better place for it.
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COT
climber
Door Number 3
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FMA!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Cool video, Marty!
Looks like a terrific bouldering gym. Traversi appears to be a dedicated, driven man, with a work ethic that is paying off for him.
https://www.theboulderfield.com/
At about 2:18 there is footage of Carlo on Kauk's route, Magic Line.
I didn't see any passages from an ascent of Meltdown?
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Jim Clipper
climber
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From that write up, he sounds like a class act. Admirable putting in that much time and effort. I can't imagine putting up a route that needs a decade to repeat, at least a route on that end of the difficulty spectrum.
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WBraun
climber
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I didn't see any passages from an ascent of Meltdown?
I didn't either.
Probably because hardly anyone here has ever actually seen it in person.
It's pretty well hidden from general populations eyes.
You have to do some scrambling and hiking to get there and it is a very short pitch ......
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Aeriq
Social climber
Location: It's a MisterE
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Pretty poor quality audio & video, but the footage for Meltdown starts at 3:52:
https://vimeo.com/6530477
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| Messages 1 - 92 of total 92 in this topic |
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