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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 21, 2008 - 12:42pm PT
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No contest here, just memories. The ad is from Mountain 106 (N/D 1985) and the boys in training is mid'80's.
Any other C4 training shots out there?
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2008 - 11:15am PT
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Come on then... where are the old fingertip board, climbing the rope ladder in an ell, pull ups with 40 pounds of C4 dirt hanging in water bottles at your side shots?
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pimp daddy wayne
climber
The Bat Caves
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Feb 22, 2008 - 11:32am PT
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I need one of those kits.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho
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Feb 22, 2008 - 11:53am PT
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Who's the surferboy in the ad?
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Feb 22, 2008 - 12:18pm PT
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We used to train on a "pegboard" in college and made our own pegs on a lathe for that purpose. I even made some that were angled like ice tools. Prolly horrible for the elbows, but it seems like it really got us strong for lock-offs.
Basically a board with a parallel set of vertical 1.5" holes. These still around?
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dfrost7
Social climber
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Feb 22, 2008 - 12:19pm PT
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Those bring back memories. When I worked at 'gonia they were installed at several locations in the distribution center, along with peg boards and a really nice pullup
thing (more like parallell bars). There was a free standing climbing wall outside (with wooden holds). Then we got a new CEO and one day they were gone.
Just like that. I love the "whether your standard is 5.2 or 5.10"
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Feb 22, 2008 - 12:25pm PT
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I need one of those kits.
Make your own. The rungs had steel inserts for the set-screws that pinched the rope in the holes. Allegedly, this system allowed adjustment of the rungs, as if that were necessary or desirable.
Almost every Bachar ladder I've seen in the real world was homemade. People would just drill 1" PVC water pipe and tie knots in their old ropes.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Feb 22, 2008 - 12:31pm PT
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I'm going to be making one from closet rods, I don't plan to make it adjustable on the rope.
I did put together a campus board, but figured out I'm further out of shape and overweight than I thought.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2008 - 12:32pm PT
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Here's a couple from C4:
Not sure what this training is for...
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Feb 22, 2008 - 12:46pm PT
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If anyone is seriously considering building a Bachar ladder for training purposes, permit me, with all due respect to John, to suggest that a gym climbing rope is a better training tool.
I could go on and on about this, but will spare everyone the dissertation, because nowadays, even mentioning such upper-body training elicits a flood of negative responses about how climbing-specific methods are so much better. I'm not personally convinced there isn't a role for supplemental training, but after a while arguing with true believers does get a little tiring.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho
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Feb 22, 2008 - 01:02pm PT
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Hey Bacher. Did you ever get any coin from letting them use your name on this thing?
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Feb 22, 2008 - 01:04pm PT
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Not Camp 4, but Camp FISH in the 80's.... Tarbuster on the route.
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Feb 22, 2008 - 01:11pm PT
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The wooden version was the best. The rope ladder is good if you need something portable, but watch out about doing too many descents (too many negatives). I like the ladder over the rope because I think it simulates a climbing position more accurately - like grabbing jugs on an overhanging wall or something - just my opinion....
The rope ladder has to be strung very tightly to be nice - not like in the Chouinard ad. I used to use a double pulley and jumar system to get that baby strung. 15 degrees overhanging is ideal.
Don Best in the Toulumne Rescue Site.
Does anybody still have some original Chouinard Bachar Ladder rungs? I'd love to get some.... jb
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Bilbo
Trad climber
Truckee
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Feb 22, 2008 - 01:26pm PT
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I have the original full set as seen in the ad...fun stuff.
Not for sale though.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Feb 22, 2008 - 01:39pm PT
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John,
What was the name of the short movie about you soloing Oz on the drug dome? I remember the bit of you working out on the ladder and pullup board.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Feb 22, 2008 - 02:09pm PT
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I like the ladder over the rope because I think it simulates a climbing position more accurately - like grabbing jugs on an overhanging wall or something
It is true that the wrist position on a ladder is more like that on overhanging face climbs, although on the other hand the wrist position on a rope is more like that on hand cracks. But either the ladder or the rope are primarily for training the upper body; hand training will have to come from some other source, and I think the rope has so many offsetting advantages over a ladder that it is still a better bet overall, both in terms of convenience and training utility. But to echo John...just my opinion...
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Feb 22, 2008 - 03:24pm PT
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tolman - yeah I was trying to hunt down that footage as well. It was a TV piece by "Evening Magazine" or maybe "P.M. Magazine" out of the Bay Area.
Werner shot the footage when their supposedly expert cameraman couldn't jumar!
It was hilarious. The $800 per day cameraman showed Werner which buttons to press on the camera and that was it. Werner jumared the fixed rope to the top of the dihedral pitch in about five minutes and I soloed it. I finished the last 5.8 pitch in the rain as well....nightmare.
Perfect footage! I still can't find out who owns that footage for the life of me....
Maybe Werner knows????
Edit: Oh yeah, twisted...I think I got a few pennies from a small comission but not much. I got a bunch of free rungs however (which all burnt up in Foresta when my house went down).
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Nate Ricklin
climber
San Diego
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Feb 22, 2008 - 07:14pm PT
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Hey rgold: Can you elaborate a bit more? What are the "so many offsetting advantages over a ladder" ?
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Feb 22, 2008 - 07:15pm PT
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John,
I have a copy of the footage on VHS. I'll have to see if I can convert it to dvd.
It's poignant you mention the rain and climbing, as it bit me today at lunch. I was thinking about the cheesy commentarty when you neared the traverse on the top of oz, "The approaching storm clouds worry John, as wet rocks can't be climbed"
Well I was on a 5.9 route with manky bolts that I've been working to replace. The rock was dry on the route itself, but where I was standing to re-drill the 5th bolt my right boot was on a wet smear, so the sole got soaked. It didn't concern me as the final bulge has fairly big flat holds, then is low angle with large holds to the anchors.
So I clip into the existing rap bolts and lean back on the daisy to put some nice new bolts in. My wet right foot suddenly greased off and my left knee made a sickening and painful twist with me crumpling into the slab. I have kinda screwy knees, but of all the things I have done, I never would have expected to blow my knee out at a belay stance trying to do my thing for the climbing community by replacing manky 1/4" splitshafts in mankier fractured rock. Not to mention all the pitches I've roped soloed, it would be a sporty 1/2 pitch roadside route that got me.
I figure since I managed to walk down the scree slope to the truck w/o pain the knee isn't that bad, just week. Time to suck down some ibuprofin to keep the swelling down.
Paul
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Feb 22, 2008 - 07:58pm PT
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Rope climbing is a fine exercise but I always felt the ladder allowed you to concentrate more on your lats. After all's said and done it's easier to hang on a rung than to hang on a squeezed rope - this allows you to do more pulling (with a weight belt as well) and not be limited by your squeeze power.
Rope climbng may be more similar to the position you get in while crack climbing but thumb up hand jams are usually the easy ones anyway - not much need to train for those. It's the thumb down thin hand jams you really need to train for and that's when you build a crack machine.... just some ideas.
Rick Cashner practicing thin hands.
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